XY NU Theorymon Discussion

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Speaking of drops:

List of potential drops (Those mentioned in this thread; plus some others) (In my opinion, of course):
Key:
Italics = Not Likely to drop
Bold = Very likely to drop
Strike = Never going to drop
Regular Text = May drop, may not

Toxicroak
Lilligant (Only because of Shaymin being in RU)
Dusclops
Omastar (Still has a niche in being a Special Smasher in RU)
Uxie (It has uses over Azelf, but I personally like using Azelf more. Just the way it goes)
Gastrodon
Dusknoir
Sandslash
Hitmonchan
Poliwrath (Has niches in UU as a check to Cloyster, but in RU, barely any I can see that it can wall)
Ninetales (Of course without Drought)
Politoed (Of course without Drizzle)

Qwilfish
Mespirit
Rhydon

Bouffalant (Only because it checks Shaymin in RU, once that's gone, prob going to be NU)
Claydol (Has a niche in RU because it's the only spinner that doesn't take much from any hazard. Freaking sitting duck though most of the time)
Registeel
Accelgor (Another Pokemon that can check Shaymin; same rules apply here)
Crustle (Though it can work in RU, especially when paired with Xatu)
Electivire (I heard it can check Raikou, but that's it)
Ferroseed (Though it's somewhat common in RU, from what I'm seeing anyway)
Archeops
Rotom-N

Typhlosion
Klinklang
Hariyama
Lanturn

Well, if anyone disagrees (Or if I missed something that was mentioned of possibly dropping), please let me know. Also, back during the short period of Houndoomite getting banned, I was actually thinking that Houndoom would go NU. But Houndoomite's back, so that's not going to happen really. Also, a lot of these guys would be amazing in the tier if we got them (Except Dusknoir, who really sucks). Also, maybe some Mespirit vs Musharna talk?
 
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We probably will get Rhydon at least considering Rhyperior is currently in RU, so there's not much reason to use Rhydon. Hopefully that'll keep up over the next 3 months and we get all of those to drop.
 
Typhlosion won't drop, it's used quite a bit. Same with Lanturn.

While Omastar has a niche, nobody uses it. Everyone's been using Barbaracle instead.

Uxie also has a niche, but nobody's using it either.
 
I've seen quite a lot of Uxie in RU tbh, but I think Mesprit is likely to drop.

Also, I noticed with the 1760 stats, there were some major fluctuations between this month's and last month's UU stats (probably a combination of a new metagame, a smaller pool of players having more influence, and experienced players trying and adapting to new threats on a faster scale than the average player). So it could be more unpredictable than usual with regards to what drops down. They used a lower ranking cut-off than 1760 to make RU though, so if a lower cut-off is used for NU too, it might not be as extreme, but I could forsee more movement between tiers each tier update than there was in Gen V. I know it's early on, but that's me speculating anyway.
 
Typhlosion is dropping as it's mostly outclassed by Delphox offensively. Uxie shouldn't drop, it's still a great support mon and it would probably be a pain in NU.
 
Just quickly looking, I don't see Articuno as a viable defogger as some others in first few pages say as it can switch into rocks twice before it dies. It's best set would probably have to be SubRoost with Pressure as it can stall out stuff like Stone Edge from slower threats, etc. with it's decent bulk.
 
Life Orb Articuno is also really cool. With Freeze-Dry, not much other than bulky Steel-types can wall it effectively. I've seen it used in both RU and UU, and I'm a fan of it. It'll still take a while before I'm used to bulky Water-types not being able to switch into like every offensive Ice-type barring Rotom-F though. Anyways, should be cool in NU as well, especially with the Dark and Ghost nerfs making bulky Steel-types a bit more manageable. Can't rely as much on Metang to handle Ice-types anymore.

Also, Typhlosion is an easy NU candidate. It's simply outclassed in RU right now, with Delphox and Moltres as the standout special attacking Fire-types. Poliwrath might not be as easy as it would seem, as it's one of the best defensive checks to Escavalier (and Durant). If people pick up on that, it might see enough use to stay out of NU, though it's still too early to tell.
 
I was actually kind of interested in this list that was for the last 2 XY NU mini-tournies:
http://pastebin.com/9XVU1hVH

A lot of the stuff here I can agree with (Except Steelix and Rotom-C, the former would be broken as hell in the tier, and the latter would pretty much team warp ala Jynx). No one really has discussed Ambipom. Basically it's like a faster and slightly stronger (And much Frailer) version of BW NU's Kangaskhan except it's only way of dealing with Ghosts is Shadow Claw. It does have the advantage of stronger Fake Outs though. And amount of set-up sweepers on that list is unreal. Barbaracle, Lilligant, Feraligatr, Omastar, Vivillon................... Sucks that the best Unaware user (Swoobat) is pretty ass. And don't even mention Bibarel, Lily and Vivi beat it. Also, Doublade and Pangoro should be banned (If they aren't right now), as they are considered Mid-level threats (At least as of right now).
 
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I was actually kind of interested in this list that was for the last 2 XY NU mini-tournies:
http://pastebin.com/9XVU1hVH

A lot of the stuff here I can agree with (Except Steelix and Rotom-C, the former would be broken as hell in the tier, and the latter would pretty much team warp ala Jynx). No one really has discussed Ambipom. Basically it's like a faster and slightly stronger (And much Frailer) version of BW NU's Kangaskhan except it's only way of dealing with Ghosts is Shadow Claw. It does have the advantage of stronger Fake Outs though. And amount of set-up sweepers on that list is unreal. Barbaracle, Lilligant, Feraligatr, Omastar, Vivillon................... Sucks that the best Unaware user (Swoobat) is pretty ass. And don't even mention Bibarel, Lily and Vivi beat it. Also, Doublade and Pangoro should be banned (If they aren't right now), as they are considered Mid-level threats (At least as of right now).
I find little reason to use Ambipom > Kangaskhan.
  • Fake Out + Sucker Punch > Technician Fake Out
  • Earthquake > Low Kick
  • Bulkier
  • Slightly weaker and lower speed is barely noticeable
  • Scrappy > Technician most of the time to revenge kill ghost type threats as well
Also, Ambipom really has two viable sets. Due to Kangaskhan's great stat spread, he can viably run everything from revenge killing, to banded, to sub punch or even defensive.

Just because Ambipom was UU doesn't mean I would ever use it over Kanga. However, Technician, higher power, and a speed over NU's favored 95 is interesting, giving Khan competition.
 

scorpdestroyer

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I was actually kind of interested in this list that was for the last 2 XY NU mini-tournies:
http://pastebin.com/9XVU1hVH

A lot of the stuff here I can agree with (Except Steelix and Rotom-C, the former would be broken as hell in the tier, and the latter would pretty much team warp ala Jynx). No one really has discussed Ambipom. Basically it's like a faster and slightly stronger (And much Frailer) version of BW NU's Kangaskhan except it's only way of dealing with Ghosts is Shadow Claw. It does have the advantage of stronger Fake Outs though. And amount of set-up sweepers on that list is unreal. Barbaracle, Lilligant, Feraligatr, Omastar, Vivillon................... Sucks that the best Unaware user (Swoobat) is pretty ass. And don't even mention Bibarel, Lily and Vivi beat it. Also, Doublade and Pangoro should be banned (If they aren't right now), as they are considered Mid-level threats (At least as of right now).
That list is tentative and correct as of some time last week, don't want to change it again because some stuff moved up. When we get our RU usage stats (in about 2 weeks anyway) we'll have a better picture of NU.

Just gonna post some trends from a few matches I've seen both in the tours as well as casual matches. Spiritomb is a really huge threat in NU. Ghost/Dark means it isn't entirely donked by Knock Off; Sawk does about 45% to max defense and Tomb can proceed to burn it. I've used Crotomb but there have also been other great sets (offensive sets with dual priority, defensive sets with Wisp, etc). Rhydon was used on like 70% of the teams I've seen thus far and it's really great. It's an incredibly reliable SR setter with typing that lets it counter Normal-types and birds as well as check Electric-types. It's like a Golem without priority but higher defenses and offenses as well as Megahorn to avoid being fodder for Rotom-C. Ninetales is a Pokemon that I criticized earlier in the thread, but I was mistaken lol. Props to user MegaFairyFlareon who used an offensive variant in the tour, smashed both Fagtron and I with it, and went 4-1. Flash Fire allows it to switch into Typhlosion easily, and with access to good special bulk it has no problem setting up Nasty Plot. It is in a good Speed tier and access to Energy Ball, Fire Blast, and a Hidden Power (probably Rock).

Surprisingly I haven't seen any glaringly OP stuff in XY NU yet even if there are some candidates. Of course there are definitely a lot of new (and old) threats but those 3 above were the ones that stood out to me. If anybody wants to play in that format, come to the PS NU room and some of the regulars there should have teams to fight.
 
Wait why are people saying Spiritomb is going to drop. Spiritomb is a common pokemon in RU and working well against should be UU Azelf will most likely keep it RU.
 
Well it's only because Spiritomb is considered only a Low-Level threat. Also, if Azelf gets banned, it's usage would drop. This is also why stuff like Steelix and Rotom-C are on that list. (The Level threat thing, not the countering Azelf thing)
 
can we refrain from doing 'thought dumps'? because you're commenting on so many pokemon at one time your insights are for the most part tenuous, conspicuous, and superficial which are not conductive to good discussion. it's better to look at one or two pokemon and analyze them thoroughly.

this of course goes for everyone and not just you, Koishi Komeji.

also i do not really like making guesses on what's going to be ru or not, because your guesses will likely be far from reality. let us just wait until the april ru 1695 stats are posted, as those are more tangible.

[aside]i don't see how steelix could possibly be broken, as it's just a solid SR mon and that's it. not much potential to be broken there.[/aside]

:toast:
 
Okay then. That post was just based from one list (Which is only based on what's considered outclassed and/or bad in RU). Some of those were talked about in this thread (And I was the one who originally brought the Lilligant in NU hypothesis). That aside I actually don't think Barbaracle will end up in NU (Neither will Clawitzer) because I've been seeing a few of them from times of playing RU beta. Haven't really seen anything else that was on that list, though maybe that's because I'm a bit too low on the ladder.
 
Who else is stoked for Mr. Mime? I know it's not the most exciting Pokemon, but I'm looking forward to using it in a tier where it might not be super outclassed.

I'm thinking a pretty simple Life Orb set would probably be most effective. Something along the lines of:

Mr. Mime @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician / Filter
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Hidden Power Ground / Thunderbolt
- Encore / Nasty Plot

This set gives Mr. Mime really, really good coverage. If Alomomola drops, you can viably run Psyshock with Thunderbolt and not worry about it. If it doesn't drop, you can probably run Psyshock with a Hidden Power. HP Ground hits Probopass, Metang, and Bastiodon (as well as Skuntank if it drops) just like last gen. Thunderbolt can still hit bulky Water-types if those are more prevalent in NU, even if Alomomola doesn't drop. Encore is my favorite move in the game, so it's an obvious mention. It's a huge utility move that can help force switches and break walls. Nasty Plot probably wouldn't be that good because Mr. Mime has horrible physical defense, and its HP is low enough that its high Special Defense isn't that amazing either. But if you're able to force a switch, you can set up and wreak some havoc on stall/generally defensive team.

Oh, and Filter is a nice little boost in case you end up running Thunderbolt. You don't need Technician in that case, so you might as well run something beneficial. Soundproof could be a thing too, I suppose. Absolutely demolishes Chatot, which I think will actually be a pretty big threat in NU. Also makes it immune to random Bug Buzz, but because it's not weak to it anymore, I doubt that would really matter anyways.

You could also just run four attacks and have coverage to hit bulky Water-types + Steel-types, but that sounds really inferior. It already has good enough coverage with only three moves.

Anyways, no Gardevoir means more room for Mime y/n
 

#GogoatHype

So me and Jonater were talking about Gogoat a couple of weeks ago. It is a farely cool grass type which will likely end up in NU. While outclassed in most other tiers, it finds a very nice position in NU. 68 Speed is nothing to call home about, and neither are 123 / 62 / 81 defenses. However, when combined with very solid 100 (close enough) per piece offensive stats, it becomes a very nice bulky attacker. We came up with a few ideas for it, with its few attacks and moves. While it isn't the most versatile pokemon, it is still rather solid.

Gogoat @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Leech Seed / Wild Charge
- Substitute
- Rock Slide / Earthquake

Fairly simple SubSeeder / Substitute Attacker. Wear down opponents between Leech Seed and Horn Leech while healing yourself for more substitutes, and finishing them off, or hit them harder with a Life Orb. 104 Speed EVs let it outspeed base 80's with 4 speed EVs, as well as hitting a leftovers / substitute number. Adamant max attack lets it finish off pokemon. Rock Slide is its best option in terms of coverage, hitting Fire, Flying, and Bug pokemon that Gogoat cannot kill with its STAB. Wild Charge + Earthquake however is stronger in terms of coverage, but Leech Seed + Rock Slide is typically the preferred option. What makes it different from something like Sawsbuck is the fact that it has significant bulk, letting it oftentimes go with a unbroken substitute against weak attackers.

Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Milk Drink
- Roar
- Toxic / Rock Slide

Gogoat can run a surprisingly effective Specially Defensive wall set. Putting a complete stop to ludicolo [252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 179-213 (39.7 - 47.3%)], as well as other special attackers, it is so bulky. Due to a monstrous 123 Base HP, it can absorb the majority of special hits fine. This is especially important to stall, who often needs a reliable phazer against specially offensive sweepers, whom Gogoat can not only put a stop to, but roar out, making it a great asset to more defensive teams. Horn Leech is the obvious STAB of choice, while Milk Drink is used for more reliable recovery, and Roar + Toxic are there for utility. Rock Slide is if you are really fucking paranoid of hitting things, but it is honestly quite unnecessary.

Gogoat @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Horn Leech
- Bulk Up
- Rock Slide
- Substitute / Earthquake

This set aims to throw offensive teams into a loop. It is quite hard to take down by weaker pokemon, and packs quite a punch after a single boost. Horn Leech and Rock Slide are again the coverage of choice, and after a bulk up or two it is quite untouchable on the physical side and quite difficult to revenge kill with priority. Substitute offers the ability to setup on a forced switch, or to shield Gogoat from crippling status.

Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Bulk Up
- Sleep Talk / Rock Slide
- Rest / Milk Drink

This is actually my favorite set that I even use in the current RU metagame. It is so good as a bulky setup sweeper, being nigh impossible to take down on either side. Surprisingly on this set, "CroGoat" is much better than Milk Drink, due to RestTalk's ability to remove status and allow it to continue boosting, making it an extremely effective stallbreaker. Most stall teams will be 6-0'd by this, due to their inability to take it down via offenses, nor residual damage. Overall just a great set, please try this one. Rock Slide + Milk if you are pussy.

Gogoat @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Wild Charge
- Milk Drink

Upon first glance, Gogoat's All-Out Attacking set looks a lot like the Moofensive. However, they are very different. Gogoat has better bulk, more resistances, and while it is slower, puts out a lot more damage. Leaf Blade is a very hard hitting stab, while EdgeQuake offers very nice coverage. Wild Charge again helps to put more hurt into flying types. Milk Drink recovers lost LO and Wild Charge HP. Overall, it can help to break through slightly more defensive teams with its solid coverage, as well as powerful base 100 attack.
 
I'm just going to throw out my thoughts on a few pokemon.

Barbaracle won't be NU. Just, no.

Eelektross may possibly be going up to RU. I've been seeing more Eelektrosses than Braviarys, and about as much as Alomomola or Slurpuff.

Ambipom gives a good alternative to Kangaskhan if it does drop. It has quite a bit of power behind it, as well as a blazing fast speed. Unlike Kanga, it has a useful move in U-Turn to pivot out against pokemon it can't touch.
While it may not have Earthquake, it does have a lot of various usable coverage options, such as Seed Bomb(Hits Rhydon and Golem decently), Knock Off(severely weakens pokemon like ghosts, Tangela, Gurdurr, and Misdreavus if they switch in, 2hkoes Missy) and Low Kick(Probopass, mostly).
The typical set will probably look something like this:

Ambipom @ Life Orb / Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- U-turn
- Seed Bomb / Low Kick / Knock Off
- Return

Double Hit is always a possible option I suppose.

Clawitzer is a ridiculously powerful pokemon, with great coverage and decent bulk.

Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Water Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

120 special attack is very powerful, and combined with choice specs, it's going to put a nice dent in a lot of things.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 322-380 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 304-358 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regice: 220-260 (60.4 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eelektross: 274-324 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 170-202 (70.5 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 250-296 (55.6 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

2HKOes the more common specially bulky pokemon around, and outspeeds most of them.

Another possibility is AV, and some other options for moves are U-Turn and Aqua Jet, or even Sludge Wave to hit grass types slightly harder.

Sawk's going to be back, but not for long. I don't believe a single thing really counters it easily any more. It basically smashes through everything. Even pokemon like Tangela can just get knocked off and then taken care of.


Typhlosion, if it drops, is a supremely powerful pokemon. Combined with a base speed of 100, if you don't have something to switch into specs Typhlosion, you are basically going to get everything killed by some eruptions. I feel it's going to be shaping the metagame around itself and dominating NU.


Granbull will be the only usable remotely bulky fairy in NU by the looks of it, and the only usable physical one. It has a lot of things going for it now that it's not outclassed by every good normal type in NU this generation, such as a large attack stat, intimidate, coverage for days, and some decent support options. Assault Vest, Choice Band, and Leftovers are all decent options.
 
Thoughts (Please note that if I talk about potential drops here it's because I haven't seen them in RU that much):

  • Lilligant, if it drops, seems to be the best Grass-type Set-up sweeper. This is mainly due to it's (slightly) unique boosting move Quiver Dance. If QD is not your thing and you still want to use Lily, there's always the Scarf set, which some may argue is a bad scarfer, though it has Leaf Storm as a hit-and-run STAB, Sleep Powder to slightly bluff a QD set, and Healing Wish to heal another sweeper.
  • Gourgeist-Large seems to be like this tier's equivalent to Gourgeist-XL, except with slightly different stats. I'd imagine it would see use similar to how XL is used, as a tanky thing that can burn shit. Goureist-XS, if it drops, will be the tier's Whimsicott (Best likely RU mon I can compare it to). Something that can infurate it's opponents, though Gourgeist has more bulk than Whimsi and also has access to WoW.
  • Politoed will just be outclassed by Seismitoad.
  • In terms of fallen stars, the biggest one has to be Metang. The steel nerf gave him two harmful weaknesses in Ghost and Dark, and the Knock Off buff doesn't help matters either. Also, Bronzor becomes completely unusable (It was usable last gen, being in D-rank IIRC).
  • If Braviary and Eelektross move up, I could see Swellow and Electivire (A possible drop) being decent replacements. Though nothing really compares to Eel IMO. Also, possible rise in usage for Dodrio?
  • Mr. Mime will likely be the tiers best Specially offensive Fairy now that Aromatisse and Gardevoir aren't likely to drop.
  • Both Meowstics look to be interesting. The female variant is mainly outclassed by Kadabra, though has some neat things over the spoon-bender, such as Competitive, and access to some neat moves. Meowstic-M looks like a Psychic-type Liepard. Also, will Prankster + Assist and SmashPass be banned again? (Though the only thing that can do the latter is Huntail providing that Gorebyss and Smeargle move up in one way or another)
  • Speaking of replacements to great mons from last gen, Poliwrath seems to be the new Momo. It can also phaze as well. It does have niches in RU unlike most of the Pokemon I mentioned already.
  • If we get Magmortar, it will likely bring the same terror it brought last gen. Fire Blast + Thunderbolt + HP Grass gives it near perfect coverage, and it has a decent movepool.
  • Not sure what to think of Malamar in terms of item choices. Topsy-Turvy can screw Pokemon like Ninetales, Jynx, Lilligant, Vivillon and Mr. Mime pretty hard, so that's something. Likely that most will be STABs/Superpower/Topsy-Turvy.
  • Emolga seems to be a bit more gimmicky (though it was already a gimmick to begin with lol) than ever in that it's the best user of Nuzzle. It can also set up dual-screens which fills up the space left behind when Amphy left. Speaking of Nuzzle, it's distribution makes it like the offensive version of Sticky Web. Only giving it to Pikaclones stinks. If they gave to something like Electrode it would be a bit better.
  • Vivillon is likely to be a dangerous sweeper, though it having common weaknesses sucks.
  • Jynx is not much different from last gen. The only thing that's really different is that see has a few more checks, and that Dark-type moves (And Darks in general) are getting a bit better.
  • Cacturne seems to be a highly improved Pokemon. Sucker Punch being resisted by less things is a plus, though 7 weaknesses is a bummer. It can also set-up spikes, but Pokemon like the possible drop of Qwilfish and Roselia do it much better. Likely to be a SD sweeper that's a bit slow.
  • The Regi bros look to be highly improved as well. Regirock can use a decent AV set that can be a bit of a pain to wall, though the standard set from last gen still seems to work well. Regice is not much different, though AV makes it extremely bulky on the special side. Like I said with Regirock, Regice's standard set still works well. Regigigas still blows but is usable (To some extent), however.
That's all I have to say for today. Will post more tomorrow.
 
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Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
@

Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
Close Combat | Knock Off | Taunt | Earthquake

Strong set mang. Sawk is one strong mofo so Choice Band Jolly < Taunt LO Adamant imo. The reason for taunt is because it's one of the only pokemon that can reliably beat hazard heavy offense teams in the current "peak" of a possible variant of XY NU. Also taunt shits on BulkyTomb, removing it's recovery (resttalk) and the only way it can really threaten you (will o wisp). With Knock Off this new Gen, sawk is sure to be even better, as it can now reliably beat missy, jynx and gourgeist with Taunt + K-Off.
CC hurts a LOT like you would expect from last gens champion of Kung-Fu.
Not much to say, so calcs n stuff
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Sawk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Spiritomb Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 73-87 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Sawk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 103-122 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- 35.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 4 Atk Spiritomb Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 51-61 (17.4 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 192-229 (59.2 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Misdreavus: 195-231 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 153-182 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 185-218 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Crustle: 224-265 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sandslash: 185-218 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 653-769 (240 - 282.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • etc
 

Bummer

Jamming to the beat
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Sawk is actually one of the reasons I checked this thread now, because I honestly think it will be too much for NU this gen. It always had plenty of options in its offensive movepool to deal with various types that resisted its STABs, along with Toxic and Taunt to silence dedicated walls. What it DIDN'T have was super effective coverage on psychics and ghosts, which is why Sawk rarely was an issue as Misdreavous and Musharna could comfortably scare it out once it was out on the field. With the buffed Knock Off, all that has changed.

252 Atk Life Orb Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 216-255 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sawk Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 146-172 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 177-208 (54.6 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sawk Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Misdreavus: 177-211 (54.6 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And with Adamant:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 234-278 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 159-187 (36.4 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So with a moveset of Close Combat, Knock Off, Earthquake (for Weezing) and Stone Edge/Ice Punch (birds), along with Stealth Rock on the field, there will barely be any counters for Sawk, and with an acceptable 85 base speed, odds are that you won't be able to outspeed his next move if your opponent predicted wrong. Granted, Fairy types would be able to handle all of those moves out of a typing perspective, but since most of the fairies are getting their use in the upper tiers, then we can't expect that we'll receive something that can go toe to toe with Sawk (Togetic is mauled by Stone Edge, Wigglytuff is neutral to Close Combat). And even if we do get a good one, Sawk has access to Poison Jab.

Now, I'm no NU authority, so I won't jump to the conclusion that Sawk should be quick banned, but I WILL conclude that Sawk will be a completely different beast this gen now that his former nemesises no longer can corner him.
 
Golem and Ludicolo may leave NU too, I see them frequently in RU and their weakness policy + assault vest sets COULD be too good in NU, but dunno.
 
That's the truth, sadly. But to be honest, I am kinda glad now. Golem is one of my favourite pokemon and seeing it getting some love is always good.
If you really want to see Golem get some love you should play first gen OU. Also i always preferred Rhydon over Golem and it's nice to see that Rhydon may be NU. One thing i know is that Rhydon is gonna rock in NU ( pun intended ).
 
Rhydon is more likely to exit NU than Golem. They have identical attacks, but Rhydon's 105 / 180 / 68 (with eviolite included already) defenses far outshines Golem's lackluster 80 / 130 / 65. This said, Golem's higher speed and sturdy give it a different niche, but as a whole Rhydon is far superior.

Also Zangoose will be broken af.

Also why is everybody calcing with LO Sawk. Sawk isn't that fast or bulky in NU, and for that reason cannot take chances with the Residual Damage. Just Choice it tbh, or if real Fist Plate like a boss.
 
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