Resource VGC 2019 Viability Rankings [Moon Series Update]

I’ve seen Dialga’s usage go up lately. Seems to be a solid Trick Room setter that isn’t weak to Kyogre. At least put it up to C+

Another suggestion; I ran Drifblim in the latest international challenge under VGC19 rules and it does really well. It’s niche is a basically guaranteed Tailwind set up and then a great support move in Memento that allows free set up to whatever you send in next (plus it has Haze and Icy Wind). I think it should at least be in the same tier as Clefairy. It even topped a regionals in October.
 

Netherious

some call me papa neth
is a Community Leader Alumnus
I’ve seen Dialga’s usage go up lately. Seems to be a solid Trick Room setter that isn’t weak to Kyogre. At least put it up to C+

Another suggestion; I ran Drifblim in the latest international challenge under VGC19 rules and it does really well. It’s niche is a basically guaranteed Tailwind set up and then a great support move in Memento that allows free set up to whatever you send in next (plus it has Haze and Icy Wind). I think it should at least be in the same tier as Clefairy. It even topped a regionals in October.
I agree, I definitely overlooked Dialga and it's CP has spiked as well recently. I definitely will bump Dialga up to B-, in line with the others at it's CP level.

I agree with Drifblim as well. Anyone else object or say otherwise before I do this?
 
Celesteela C -> C+/B-

Celesteela imo is in a great position in a meta where GeoXern is like everywhere. As a Xern check, it seperates itself from Ferrothorn through its access to wide guard and a ground immunity, in exchange for a electric weakness (frankly not the greatest in this meta where koko and thunder ogre is relevant), but Cele brings great role compression as a Xern check, wide guard user and Groudon check, which is appreciated in a meta without Pdon. Celesteela also has leech seed to seperate itself from Solgaleo and Dusk Mane.

Also ngl I think ogre should be S, yes it’s a restricted legend, gets ohkoed by tsar and is bad vs ferro, but with incine being everywhere and it’s great synergy with tsar, it should definitely have a place at S. I also don’t even think ScarfOgre is the best set out there, more of it’s just a easy ladder climb until ~1650 on battle spot. Anyone decent at vgc will carry speed control, heavy resists to it like tsar, trick room, or wide guard to really screw over ScarfOgre. I think Timid Specs and bulky ogre (similar to the pogres played in 2016) with speed control are the best sets.
 
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Celesteela C -> C+/B-

Celesteela imo is in a great position in a meta where GeoXern is like everywhere. As a Xern check, it seperates itself from Ferrothorn through its access to wide guard and a ground immunity, in exchange for a electric weakness (frankly not the greatest in this meta where koko and thunder ogre is relevant), but Cele brings great role compression as a Xern check, wide guard user and Groudon check, which is appreciated in a meta without Pdon. Celesteela also has leech seed to seperate itself from Solgaleo and Dusk Mane.
Celesteela is terrible, it's fine in C.

1. It has no results.

2. It can't actually kill Xerneas 252+ Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 168-198 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Gyro ball also doesn't KO modest Xern and does less damage to other mons.

3. Incineroar can safely switch in on it and totally ignore it. Every steel type ranked higher than it bar Ferrothorn and DM can hit Incineroar back (and bronzong but I haven't seen a bronzong in ages).

4. You have to choose between 2koing Xerneas at -1 (which you will always be at) or not getting 2kod by Xerneas.

5. Wide guard is mediocre on a mon that takes a ton of damage from Thunder.

6. Leech seed sucks in a format where positioning is everything.

7. Most importantly, it's outclassed by Stakataka 98% of the time. You trade not getting killed by Groudon for not setting up TR and not actually killing Xerneas.

--

As for the actual list, I'm very content with all the relevant mons placements right now. My only suggestions are regarding C rank mons. I think Lurantis deserves a bump up to C+ or B- given it's niche on dusk mane teams. No notable results beyond MSSs and Seniors regionals, but it's a pretty new trend and I think people are resistant to change teams so late in a format.

The second change is Zekrom from C to C+. Fini Zekrom is a solid core that puts a lot of pressure on the most common teams in the format right now by stopping your opponent from bringing Tornadus and forcing your opponent to repeatedly switch incineroar in on two Pokemon it can't actually damage.

Finally, Rayquaza from C+ to C. It's not worse than Tornadus in a vacuum, but pretty much any team that runs Ray is better off running Torn and another restricted instead.
 
Yeah I haven’t seen any Celesteela for ages now. You’d think it would catch on if it was good. I can’t see why you would use it on your team over something like assault vest Kartana. Maybe it will do something later in the season, who knows.
 
Celesteela is terrible, it's fine in C.

1. It has no results.

2. It can't actually kill Xerneas 252+ Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 168-198 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Gyro ball also doesn't KO modest Xern and does less damage to other mons.

3. Incineroar can safely switch in on it and totally ignore it. Every steel type ranked higher than it bar Ferrothorn and DM can hit Incineroar back (and bronzong but I haven't seen a bronzong in ages).

4. You have to choose between 2koing Xerneas at -1 (which you will always be at) or not getting 2kod by Xerneas.

5. Wide guard is mediocre on a mon that takes a ton of damage from Thunder.

6. Leech seed sucks in a format where positioning is everything.

7. Most importantly, it's outclassed by Stakataka 98% of the time. You trade not getting killed by Groudon for not setting up TR and not actually killing Xerneas.

--

As for the actual list, I'm very content with all the relevant mons placements right now. My only suggestions are regarding C rank mons. I think Lurantis deserves a bump up to C+ or B- given it's niche on dusk mane teams. No notable results beyond MSSs and Seniors regionals, but it's a pretty new trend and I think people are resistant to change teams so late in a format.

The second change is Zekrom from C to C+. Fini Zekrom is a solid core that puts a lot of pressure on the most common teams in the format right now by stopping your opponent from bringing Tornadus and forcing your opponent to repeatedly switch incineroar in on two Pokemon it can't actually damage.

Finally, Rayquaza from C+ to C. It's not worse than Tornadus in a vacuum, but pretty much any team that runs Ray is better off running Torn and another restricted instead.
Stakataka can ohko xern and get trick room up plus wide guard, but in general imo it’s super clunky and as someone who uses tailwind as speed control, it’s not really what I prefer. Ally switch is sick tho ngl and on trick room teams it’s amazing. Will also admit that with ludi as a popular ogre check leech seed is becoming worse, but it’s still a solid move that can force switches, and generally versus opposing kokos, i run a max speed jolly koko with sky drop to deal with them, since most koko tend to not run max speed.

Celesteela tanks 2 gleams or 2 moonblasts from +2 xern assuming you don’t have your own xern out, so you’re usually fine going for the 2hit ko. Groudon is seeing a solid amount of play right now (iirc it top cut at latin american international) and stakataka is dead weight against ogre if tr isn’t up. I’ve had good success with celesteela on the battle spot ladder. Also with scarf ogre everywhere, wide guard is still excellent imo. Don’t get me wrong like I said scarf ogre is hella overrated and I think bulky ogre with protect is the best set for it rn but scarf ogre is getting the most results. Speaking of results, I don’t think they prove everything. Keep in mind that back in 2016, despite xern being everywhere, it was RayOgre and Double Primals that made top 2, along with bronzong and mega gengar.
 

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stakataka is dead weight against ogre if tr isn’t up.
I don’t see how Celesteela is any different though. Yes it gets Wide Guard to potentially block Ogre’s attacks, which you mentioned, but so does Stakataka. They’re both pretty awful against Kyogre
 

Netherious

some call me papa neth
is a Community Leader Alumnus
Celesteela C -> C+/B-

Celesteela imo is in a great position in a meta where GeoXern is like everywhere. As a Xern check, it seperates itself from Ferrothorn through its access to wide guard and a ground immunity, in exchange for a electric weakness (frankly not the greatest in this meta where koko and thunder ogre is relevant), but Cele brings great role compression as a Xern check, wide guard user and Groudon check, which is appreciated in a meta without Pdon. Celesteela also has leech seed to seperate itself from Solgaleo and Dusk Mane.

Also ngl I think ogre should be S, yes it’s a restricted legend, gets ohkoed by tsar and is bad vs ferro, but with incine being everywhere and it’s great synergy with tsar, it should definitely have a place at S. I also don’t even think ScarfOgre is the best set out there, more of it’s just a easy ladder climb until ~1650 on battle spot. Anyone decent at vgc will carry speed control, heavy resists to it like tsar, trick room, or wide guard to really screw over ScarfOgre. I think Timid Specs and bulky ogre (similar to the pogres played in 2016) with speed control are the best sets.

Celesteela is terrible, it's fine in C.

1. It has no results.

2. It can't actually kill Xerneas 252+ Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 168-198 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Gyro ball also doesn't KO modest Xern and does less damage to other mons.

3. Incineroar can safely switch in on it and totally ignore it. Every steel type ranked higher than it bar Ferrothorn and DM can hit Incineroar back (and bronzong but I haven't seen a bronzong in ages).

4. You have to choose between 2koing Xerneas at -1 (which you will always be at) or not getting 2kod by Xerneas.

5. Wide guard is mediocre on a mon that takes a ton of damage from Thunder.

6. Leech seed sucks in a format where positioning is everything.

7. Most importantly, it's outclassed by Stakataka 98% of the time. You trade not getting killed by Groudon for not setting up TR and not actually killing Xerneas.

--

As for the actual list, I'm very content with all the relevant mons placements right now. My only suggestions are regarding C rank mons. I think Lurantis deserves a bump up to C+ or B- given it's niche on dusk mane teams. No notable results beyond MSSs and Seniors regionals, but it's a pretty new trend and I think people are resistant to change teams so late in a format.

The second change is Zekrom from C to C+. Fini Zekrom is a solid core that puts a lot of pressure on the most common teams in the format right now by stopping your opponent from bringing Tornadus and forcing your opponent to repeatedly switch incineroar in on two Pokemon it can't actually damage.

Finally, Rayquaza from C+ to C. It's not worse than Tornadus in a vacuum, but pretty much any team that runs Ray is better off running Torn and another restricted instead.

I'm going to abstain from making a movement on Celesteela right now. I think you made some decent points (both of you) but specifically BobEatsPoop you missed the absolutely great reasons to use Kartana over other select steel-types.

1.) Access to Flamethrower AND Grass Knot. This is way bigger than wide guard. This makes Celesteela able to hard counter Kartana and soft check Groudon and Kyogre very similarly to how Nihilego checks them. Except, Celesteela doesn't have a X4 ground weakness.

2.)Seed Acrobatics. This was missed or not touched on enough but this is a cool option seeing as flying coverage is really nice right now.

I'm going to add that Celesteela pairs nicely with Groudon AND Kyogre depending on what you want it do cover. Celesteela + Groudon covers Kartana and Kyogre and Xerneas as not much can safely attack in front of both. Celesteela + Kyogre with a seed set will cover things like Amoonguss, Groudon, and some Kartana, especially if you do a physical boosting seed like electric seed.

Again, I don't add things to list based on potential nearly as much as I do based on results. I see it's potential, but It needs to be proven with CP and successful usage around. I'm convinced it has a role but only on specific teams.
 
Salazzle I think should be moved up, just seems much better than the others in his ranking.
Celestella and Dialaga need a move up the bench, they have proved quit enough. I understand the niche is Trick Room however, since they are the dominate setters and make plays in the room, they deserve to be apart from the rest, except maybe Gastrodon. On that note i'm quite suprised on Gastrodons being used and the ones that are not performing (team wise) top tier, as many Bronzong are argubly their. IDK maybe just me, but this summer/last spring I was running Gastrodon and Bronzong together often and they can work well together (and Toxicroak), or at least the same team.Gastrodon is just out flexed litterally right now with Kyogre. Also Talone Flame deserves to move away from that tier with salazzel moving up with him, at least from the reginal events and work done in games, allowing them to progress.

Overall I am sick of Incinerator, also double checked just now to see Lunala and Toxicroak and agreed. Hope to see more of them, it is hard to get a team formed, I went through this, after running Xerneas and Kyogre, Tapu Koko was usually on the squad and honnestly whomever else never seemed to matter as much with those three a a little bulk on Xern and Kyogre, Assult Vest or Choice Koko (prefer Assult Vest personally, but with choice items did well). It's sad seeing that top tier and no other comming close, except Toxicroak as far as being to learn Fake Out then Salazzle and Scafty, I wish so bad was better in this format. He did place top 8 maybe 5th or 6th in a reginal in europe if im not mistaken? IDK I was hype over some non-US placings and teams. When I saw Lunala on almost every team (forgot country, not the frankfort one idt, Lunala did well their though if I remember, and early before US players placed anywhere with him.

PLEASE: Could anyone link me to the November Reginal with Lunala taking great placments, (except when 4th was DQ'd I count that as a win, at least for Lunala) however I think 2 or 3 of the 4 maybe 5 teams with Lunala ran Smeargle, Crowbat ect. If I can get a link to those teams and spreads and even better, just the stream that DQ'd that dude, witch was to harsh. Should have warned him, once, I know pokemon needs to have a good family friendly look as a company, but reading over the rules and Tourney "Professors", I feel he deserved something else not a DQ maybe game lost, or cannot participate in the Online International. I feel bad for the dude, however he should know Nintendo/Pokemon International has a family friendly "vibe" lack of a better word. They have to maintain that type of appearance, and atmosphere during events, to remain on top like they have with kids adults, teens, any damn age. I been playin for 20 years ask my damn sprite while visiting my "Palace of Poon".

I wanted a strong Poison type, as Toxicroak was getting boring and using him can go awesome or not so awesome, depending on the other team and their spreads, he take tons of tinkering to get right or did, for me at least. I never got to get Nagandel to work well, also could have put more time into testing and playing with him. A poison type like that has potential, wouldn't be suprised if a top 4 worlds teams has him by 2022 lol thats the sad part, hopefully we can see more, but with Lunala getting prevelant so will the dark side, Yveltal, witch i'm happy with (sickest team ever to win an event reginals would be a Yveltal Lunala Team? Who could make that happen idk probably nobody, but I would cry tears of joy, even as Xerneas fan, slowly liking yveltal more.

One pokemon I am suprised is not up their, a little suprised at least is Hydregon. Litterally I have so many sets with different spreads and movesets, he could perform great in the right hands and team. Hope we see him this year, at one point. When I did suggest movement of pokemon I did use a bit more of an analytic approach apose to grouping approach, to organize them.

Yuichii was saying the trickroom setters, I agree with setting trickroom, however able to support and output damage in and out of the trick room, (with well balanced stats) can be the deciding factor of your entire teams synergy, kind of in the sense that it's doing more than one role, and doing a good job at them,maybe not the best job but a damn good job with 2 maybe 3 roles. Help main DPS do DPS, while doing massive DPS ect. So many options with Lunala thats the reason it performed in in the same tier as Xerneas and Kyogre, I think those 3 did the best performance wise. That annoying cat that needs to go away, im not including, nobody that I have watched has had serious problems with, but it's little role does help set up and do a little more DPS for free or even free switch in with u-turn, he will die soon, and the person to figure that out, will probably win some events, unless we wait (that new steel type pokemonGo evolved form looks OP, maybe we wait for him... Lunala is versitile and thats the key, it's not set in stone what has to be done or how it needs to be ran. Movepool and Ability, not to mention stats are good, actually I really like the way they distributed his states. Anyway idk hopefully Drifblim can win worlds.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
I wanted a strong Poison type, as Toxicroak was getting boring and using him can go awesome or not so awesome, depending on the other team and their spreads, he take tons of tinkering to get right or did, for me at least. I never got to get Nagandel to work well, also could have put more time into testing and playing with him.
Crobat, amoonguss, nihilego, and venusaur also exist
 

Netherious

some call me papa neth
is a Community Leader Alumnus
Salazzle I think should be moved up, just seems much better than the others in his ranking.
Celestella and Dialaga need a move up the bench, they have proved quit enough. I understand the niche is Trick Room however, since they are the dominate setters and make plays in the room, they deserve to be apart from the rest, except maybe Gastrodon. On that note i'm quite suprised on Gastrodons being used and the ones that are not performing (team wise) top tier, as many Bronzong are argubly their. IDK maybe just me, but this summer/last spring I was running Gastrodon and Bronzong together often and they can work well together (and Toxicroak), or at least the same team.Gastrodon is just out flexed litterally right now with Kyogre. Also Talone Flame deserves to move away from that tier with salazzel moving up with him, at least from the reginal events and work done in games, allowing them to progress.

Overall I am sick of Incinerator, also double checked just now to see Lunala and Toxicroak and agreed. Hope to see more of them, it is hard to get a team formed, I went through this, after running Xerneas and Kyogre, Tapu Koko was usually on the squad and honnestly whomever else never seemed to matter as much with those three a a little bulk on Xern and Kyogre, Assult Vest or Choice Koko (prefer Assult Vest personally, but with choice items did well). It's sad seeing that top tier and no other comming close, except Toxicroak as far as being to learn Fake Out then Salazzle and Scafty, I wish so bad was better in this format. He did place top 8 maybe 5th or 6th in a reginal in europe if im not mistaken? IDK I was hype over some non-US placings and teams. When I saw Lunala on almost every team (forgot country, not the frankfort one idt, Lunala did well their though if I remember, and early before US players placed anywhere with him.

PLEASE: Could anyone link me to the November Reginal with Lunala taking great placments, (except when 4th was DQ'd I count that as a win, at least for Lunala) however I think 2 or 3 of the 4 maybe 5 teams with Lunala ran Smeargle, Crowbat ect. If I can get a link to those teams and spreads and even better, just the stream that DQ'd that dude, witch was to harsh. Should have warned him, once, I know pokemon needs to have a good family friendly look as a company, but reading over the rules and Tourney "Professors", I feel he deserved something else not a DQ maybe game lost, or cannot participate in the Online International. I feel bad for the dude, however he should know Nintendo/Pokemon International has a family friendly "vibe" lack of a better word. They have to maintain that type of appearance, and atmosphere during events, to remain on top like they have with kids adults, teens, any damn age. I been playin for 20 years ask my damn sprite while visiting my "Palace of Poon".

I wanted a strong Poison type, as Toxicroak was getting boring and using him can go awesome or not so awesome, depending on the other team and their spreads, he take tons of tinkering to get right or did, for me at least. I never got to get Nagandel to work well, also could have put more time into testing and playing with him. A poison type like that has potential, wouldn't be suprised if a top 4 worlds teams has him by 2022 lol thats the sad part, hopefully we can see more, but with Lunala getting prevelant so will the dark side, Yveltal, witch i'm happy with (sickest team ever to win an event reginals would be a Yveltal Lunala Team? Who could make that happen idk probably nobody, but I would cry tears of joy, even as Xerneas fan, slowly liking yveltal more.

One pokemon I am suprised is not up their, a little suprised at least is Hydregon. Litterally I have so many sets with different spreads and movesets, he could perform great in the right hands and team. Hope we see him this year, at one point. When I did suggest movement of pokemon I did use a bit more of an analytic approach apose to grouping approach, to organize them.

Yuichii was saying the trickroom setters, I agree with setting trickroom, however able to support and output damage in and out of the trick room, (with well balanced stats) can be the deciding factor of your entire teams synergy, kind of in the sense that it's doing more than one role, and doing a good job at them,maybe not the best job but a damn good job with 2 maybe 3 roles. Help main DPS do DPS, while doing massive DPS ect. So many options with Lunala thats the reason it performed in in the same tier as Xerneas and Kyogre, I think those 3 did the best performance wise. That annoying cat that needs to go away, im not including, nobody that I have watched has had serious problems with, but it's little role does help set up and do a little more DPS for free or even free switch in with u-turn, he will die soon, and the person to figure that out, will probably win some events, unless we wait (that new steel type pokemonGo evolved form looks OP, maybe we wait for him... Lunala is versitile and thats the key, it's not set in stone what has to be done or how it needs to be ran. Movepool and Ability, not to mention stats are good, actually I really like the way they distributed his states. Anyway idk hopefully Drifblim can win worlds.

I'll read this when this is proofread and follows a concise complete thought. This is borderline internet ranting. Please refrain from these sort of rambling comments on here. I see you're new to Smogon so If you can give the Rules thread a strong read through, we'd all appreciate it!

Thanks,

Neth
 
Custap is gonna get here soon, boyos. This is huge for thicc mons everywhere that are also slow (see groudon, even though groudon won't be running it most likely). But like, discuss or something.
 
Custap is gonna get here soon, boyos. This is huge for thicc mons everywhere that are also slow (see groudon, even though groudon won't be running it most likely). But like, discuss or something.
Look, this is me just making stuff up off the top of my head. But maybe a bulky suicide lead Gengar invested to always survive Water Spout, +2 Moonblast etc could set up Trick Room and then pull out a surprise priority Destiny Bond when Custap kicks in. And if it doesn’t activate you’re still an offensive threat.

And if I’m allowed to get really crazy....

Vespiquen with Unnerve ability to block 50% berries which is good support. It’s bulky enough to survive a hit and activate Custap. So use it to set up Tailwind on your first turn. Then you can play serious mind games with it using Destiny Bond, Endeavour and Toxic/Rain Dance/Sunny Day depending on the situation and whether Custap is triggered.

I await everyone’s disapproval and scorn.
 

PikachuVincent

Banned deucer.
Yeah, I'm back from testing Raichu-A. But I'm gonna give my other opinions first.
KANTOIAN-Raichu: B- to C-
Even if this thing works with Kyogre, it still wouldn't matter since Ludicolo works better and offers a faster fake out and it has more offensive coverage. With Groudon's ground typing since Ultra isn't here yet, and also it's special def stat. It can kill Groundon easlity while Raichu cannot take any physical hits and some special hits.
Alolan Raichu UR-C
The only niche it has it's Dual Electric surge. ANd that's where it shines best. MUCH faster fake out than any other, It disrupts Xern from geomancy, while Koko kills it's dark weakness. If you put a LO or in ultra series, AlolanRaicium Z/Psychium Z. The 1st being better since the instant para is great. Alolan Raichu also removes Koko's weakness to poison. I haven't seen more usage of it since it is sun series and most people will find it better on Ultra series. So I cant rate it any higher until more usage has gone up. Also it gets SHUT DOWN by ALL Trick room teams and Groundon. Especially Groundon. Unless Alolan Raichu has HP ICE. You are going to die
 
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Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
is a Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, I'm back from testing Raichu-A. But I'm gonna give my other opinions first.
KANTOIAN-Raichu: B- to C-
Even if this thing works with Kyogre, it still wouldn't matter since Ludicolo works better and offers a faster fake out and it has more offensive coverage. With Groudon's ground typing since Ultra isn't here yet, and also it's special def stat. It can kill Groundon easlity while Raichu cannot take any physical hits and some special hits.
Alolan Raichu UR-C
The only niche it has it's Dual Electric surge. ANd that's where it shines best. MUCH faster fake out than any other, It disrupts Xern from geomancy, while Koko kills it's dark weakness. If you put a LO or in ultra series, AlolanRaicium Z/Psychium Z. The 1st being better since the instant para is great. Alolan Raichu also removes Koko's weakness to poison. I haven't seen more usage of it since it is sun series and most people will find it better on Ultra series. So I cant rate it any higher until more usage has gone up. Also it gets SHUT DOWN by ALL Trick room teams and Groundon. Especially Groundon. Unless Alolan Raichu has HP ICE. You are going to die
You're not supposed to be comparing Raichu to Ludicolo because Raichu fulfills a different niche. Raichu's whole niche is Lightning Rod, which pairs up well with Kyogre by redirecting Electric attacks *ahem* Tapu Koko, other Kyogre *ahem* so that Kyogre can freely click Water Spout without having to worry about getting hit by an Electric move. Raichu also has moves like Feint, Nuzzle, and Encore, proving the point further that a comparison between Raichu and Ludicolo is poor. Raichu is a supporter, while Ludicolo is a fast special attacker with Fake Out. I'd be crazy to call Raichu a great Pokemon, but B- is appropriate for it. You could maybe argue for C+, but C- is way too low because I'd sooner use Raichu than anything that's even in C.

Alolan Raichu should not be ranked simply because there is no reason to use it over the original. The only reason you would use Alolan Raichu is due to Surge Surfer, but Lightning Rod is just so much of a better ability. Alolan Raichu mandates the use of Tapu Koko, so that's a third of your team already taken up for the gimmick, and all you really get out of it is the fastest Fake Out in the game and a super fast Encore. Not worth it.
 

PikachuVincent

Banned deucer.
You're not supposed to be comparing Raichu to Ludicolo because Raichu fulfills a different niche. Raichu's whole niche is Lightning Rod, which pairs up well with Kyogre by redirecting Electric attacks *ahem* Tapu Koko, other Kyogre *ahem* so that Kyogre can freely click Water Spout without having to worry about getting hit by an Electric move. Raichu also has moves like Feint, Nuzzle, and Encore, proving the point further that a comparison between Raichu and Ludicolo is poor. Raichu is a supporter, while Ludicolo is a fast special attacker with Fake Out. I'd be crazy to call Raichu a great Pokemon, but B- is appropriate for it. You could maybe argue for C+, but C- is way too low because I'd sooner use Raichu than anything that's even in C.

Alolan Raichu should not be ranked simply because there is no reason to use it over the original. The only reason you would use Alolan Raichu is due to Surge Surfer, but Lightning Rod is just so much of a better ability. Alolan Raichu mandates the use of Tapu Koko, so that's a third of your team already taken up for the gimmick, and all you really get out of it is the fastest Fake Out in the game and a super fast Encore. Not worth it.
I don't think Kantoian Raichu deserves anything else. Lightning rod is just ok in general.
I appreciate your criticism but I'll take it as a pinch of salt. Literally.
 
You're not supposed to be comparing Raichu to Ludicolo because Raichu fulfills a different niche. Raichu's whole niche is Lightning Rod, which pairs up well with Kyogre by redirecting Electric attacks *ahem* Tapu Koko, other Kyogre *ahem* so that Kyogre can freely click Water Spout without having to worry about getting hit by an Electric move. Raichu also has moves like Feint, Nuzzle, and Encore, proving the point further that a comparison between Raichu and Ludicolo is poor. Raichu is a supporter, while Ludicolo is a fast special attacker with Fake Out. I'd be crazy to call Raichu a great Pokemon, but B- is appropriate for it. You could maybe argue for C+, but C- is way too low because I'd sooner use Raichu than anything that's even in C.

Alolan Raichu should not be ranked simply because there is no reason to use it over the original. The only reason you would use Alolan Raichu is due to Surge Surfer, but Lightning Rod is just so much of a better ability. Alolan Raichu mandates the use of Tapu Koko, so that's a third of your team already taken up for the gimmick, and all you really get out of it is the fastest Fake Out in the game and a super fast Encore. Not worth it.
I'm going to have to agree with Zoroark's statement here. Lightning Rod is actually a really useful ability, considering it helps not only ogre but flying types like torn as well (though torn is support so you wouldn't have both on at the same time). In fact Lightning Rod is basically the only reason A-Marowak was used in 2018. I mean Surge Surfer really does nothing except give you fast fake out (correct me if I'm wrong who does it need the speed to fake-out faster?). The encore is really nice but even Whimsicott, (a better comparison imo) has prankster so sorry but i just don't think A-Raichu should be ranked.

Edit: Ok let's leave it at that
 
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PikachuVincent

Banned deucer.
I'm also a bit Biased here since Kantoian Raichu is ONE OF THE WORST POKEMON IMO. TO me Surge Surfer is a way better ablilty despite people saying it's not. I'll say it should be ranked.
 

Arcticblast

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Instead of yelling a bunch and proclaiming your bias to the world, post some replays proving Alolan Raichu’s effectiveness - especially replays against strong teams like those seen frequently at the top of regionals. Then we can evaluate it a little more effectively, instead of basing it on conjecture.
 
Yeah everyone. We should end the Raichu discussion and go back to discussing the formidable threat that is Tailwind Custap Queen :p

Silvershaft: I think you still need to bump up Dialga due to the spike in CP usage
 

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