Project USUM UU Research Week v3 | Week 5 - Lanturn, Weezing, and Choice Specs Lucario

I forgot to post sooner, but the weather wars going on right now has sort of screwed with this week. Ladder will be influenced a lot with the changes and may skewer the results drastically. Regardless, if people find time and could post the thoughts they gathered before the suspect or even during these next three remaining days, it would be appreciated, though I assume many of you would rather get reqs etc. I will still take the winners highest score as usual.

Once this week concludes on Sunday we will decide what the best approach will be regarding this thread and the rest of the suspect.
 

Estarossa

moo?
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Lanturnt



Click sprites for team importable.
Lanturn @ Leftovers / Normalium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 96 Def / 252 SpD / 160 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Volt Switch
- Scald
- Toxic

Lanturn offers two key niches that seem really useful on paper: a rare moltres check without using a rock type, and a manectric check without using a ground type. This makes it perfect on paper for teams that would struggle to fit both of these in, or that already have a ground type that isn't called hippowdon or gligar. It also offers an amazing check to boltbeam latias.

The reality I found when trying to build around this mon with Juuno this week however was that it's incredibly difficult to actually build with. Due to it's passiveness, it seemed best to try and fit it on a bulky balance team that could make use of its' access to heal bell, and it seemed that it would fit best on an aggron balance due to checking moltres and manectric for it, and the fact it could take heal bell meant that florges could use a different utility move such as defog instead.

The EV spread I chose was such that it could maximise it's special bulk while outspeeding crawdaunt, but this is fairly customisable depending on the team. Hp fire could also be chosen as a potential move on the set, however it only 2hkos scizor and lanturn doesn't have amazing physical defence uninvested and needs to invest heavily in speed to outspeed offensive scizors.


I found it to be a decent specially defensive pivot, but it's lack of offensive presence could often make it set up fodder, especially to things that don't necessarily mind a toxic. It is also fairly frail physically and due to lack of recovery can be overwhelmed on the special side, being fully reliant on wish support to stay up over a long time.

It would also seem like a decent option to supplement gligar's manectric weakness, but whenever trying to build around it it just added even more krookodile weakness due to it's typing, and never seemed to work very well.


tl;dr - Offers check compression with moltres, manectric and boltbeam latias. Can also offer a level of cleric support, but passivity and lack of it's own recovery means it needs heavy support, can be set up bait and is quite hard to build around. The combination of checking moltres and manectric isn't unique either, as rhyperior can do this while serving as a rocker at same time and pressuring common defoggers, and/or keeeping an offensive presence with swords dance, and can also fit on these sort of teams.


Weezing



Click sprites for team importable.



Click sprites for team importable.
Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 120 HP / 40 Def / 28 SpA / 180 SpD / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb

Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 28 SpA / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb

Sets have a complicated EV spread. 140 Spe allows it to outspeed banded scizor, while 28 SpA guarantees an OHKO on banded scizor after rocks. The first EV spread survives an overheat into another overheat after rocks from rotom-heat, while the latter one just maximises physical bulk instead. The latter one is more useful in a general scenario, but the former one may rarely be useful in certain teams.

Weezing has only one single niche over amoongus, which otherwise totally outclasses it in every single way, which is toxic spikes, which are kinda bad in UU atm anyway. I therefore built two teams around it with kyurem and vincune respectively. Amoongus's grass typing and access to regenerator and spore just outclass weezing in every way otherwise, letting it run a rocky helmet to punish u-turns, check primarina, check altaria better etc, and not having to rely on pain split to stay alive.

The problem with using weezing for this is that tentacruel just seems to do it better, due to being able to compress hazard control at the same time. This meant in each team hazard control had to be put in another slot, which made teambuilding a lot more restricting.

It also has a bad matchup vs nearly all hazard removers, albeit going into a stalemate vs a gligar due to levitate, which makes it much harder to get and keep the toxic spikes up. It also freely invites poision types in to absorb it's toxic spikes due to being unable to really harm them.

Tl;dr - Very little reason to run it over amoongus or tentacruel. Just outclassed in nearly every single way, and a bad matchup as a hazard setter. Not very important in current metagame but its also a poison type that can't absorb toxic spikes.
 

sanguine

friendly fire
is a Tiering Contributor
Lucario

HiiiPOWER. (Lucario) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Psychic / Dark Pulse


Lucario was the only thing I was interested in this week due to the other two mons being completely unviable, personal connection to the set notwithstanding. Firstly, it has a good matchup spread versus a variety of playstyles, functioning as a devastating wallbreaker against slower, defensive archetypes, or a dangerous revenge killer with decent speed and strong priority against faster, frailer teams. Common fighting resists can often be completely decimated by a correct prediction, and defensive staples are often OHKOed by a timely Focus Blast.

Below are some calcs and replays with an occasional comment from me:

252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 96 SpD Scizor: 288-340 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 255-300 (85 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 129-153 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (LOL)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Moltres: 153-181 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 153-181 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 283-334 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 414-488 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (I recommend chipping or at least knocking the bliss)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 354-417 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 382-451 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Pyukumuku: 162-192 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
52 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 111-131 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO (bit of chip + rocks does the trick)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 118-140 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (pretty much guaranteed 2HKO after two rocks switchins)

252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 148-175 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 344-408 (118.2 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Max HP / 0 SpD turns this into only 87.5%, but still practically guaranteed.)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 102-121 (31.9 - 37.9%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO
(big considering its a no recovery mon that likes checking a lot of things)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Amoonguss: 196-232 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primarina: 159-187 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 159-187 (49 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 542-638 (150.1 - 176.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 144-169 (47.8 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (forces it to roost or risk being trapped)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 97-115 (37.1 - 44%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (bop.)

252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 198-234 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (terrak is rarely ever given the chance to come in above 70 or below 40 and also kill something)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 109-129 (33.8 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (can revenge kill weakened Sciz)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 242-288 (73.1 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (bit of chip and it outright dies)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 198-234 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (same as prev)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 480-568 (177.1 - 209.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 324-384 (101.8 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo-Mega: 254-302 (90 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after rocks)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 270-320 (74.7 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (bit of life orb chip and it dies outright)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 236-278 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Coba should rarely be at full)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 240-284 (85.4 - 101%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 290-344 (108.2 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (important if your water resists are chipped)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magneton: 242-288 (100.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (bop.)

252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 232-274 (63.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (no recovery mon that hates being chipped like this.)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 308-364 (95.9 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (bop.)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Psychic vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 342-404 (90.4 - 106.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 326-384 (104.8 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 290-342 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (OHKOes Starmie)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jellicent: 230-272 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (colbur is more annoying but it doesn’t kill you with anything and colbur is more than likely the one saving grace it has against the dark type you probably have on your team, also OHKOes Doublade FTR)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 192-226 (63.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (forced to roost or it gets trapped)
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 158-186 (46.7 - 55%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 192-226 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-954648067 (Lucario dispatches Doublade and Volcanion w/ Flash Cannon after a bit of chip on each.)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-954629420
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-954859200
(Lucario effectively wins the game for me against stall with some good predictions on my end)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-953388526
(Lucario gets rid of Starmie, opening a large hole for Blastoise to win)


In conclusion, as the couple of replays and the massive text wall of calcs show, Lucario is capable of busting massive holes in opposing teams. Using this team I managed to get a pretty decent record on my research week account, as well as get reqs in 45 games after the second try. Lastly, shoutouts go to His for the building assistance and Notily for the fun ladder call(s).
 

pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
Lanturn is a decent Pokemon, I built with it before. It's not complicated, basically you are a very hard counter to most Volt Switches as well as Moltres and can tank Hydro Pumps from Primarina which is cool I guess. Sadly you don't really counter Togekiss since it can Roost and your SpA is too low to make a big dent. Lanturn does have pretty bad physical bulk, like Tentacruel's but with much worse typing so don't even think about checking Scizor or Cobalion like Tentacruel.

I don't think Toxic is necessary on Lanturn if you have a good dragon response. Protect is nice for scouting and Leftovers.

Mainly posting to show the team: https://pokepast.es/8d9f61bd06a17ac0

Pretty stall weak, doubt you can withstand the weather onslaught now, pretty weak to Specs Prim. Covers the rest of the meta pretty well. Double Heal Bell because I think Lanturn needs it to counter Rotom well and Sylveon needs it because he can't rely on Lanturn all the time.
 
Okay well, it has been some time since I addressed this thread but I have come to the decision it is best to close this project. Being so late into the metagame there just isn't all that much worth testing outside of niche options that saw a bit of usage in tournaments. While we could continue testing stuff in RUBL that see little usage and some different sets, I don't think this is very productive at this point in time. Furthermore all the recent suspect tests really through this thread off track, which was rather unfortunate. Congratulations to faded love for winning the final week of Research Week! I enjoyed hosting this and I hope you all enjoyed testing stuff out.
 

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