Undiscovered Movesets / EV spreads

Bannette outspeeds, Groudon with the given Evs, so it can reliably take it down with destiny bond, But it doesn't prevent groudon from getting up SR.
Ok, Banette outspeeds. My bad, didn't do my research. But still, who's gonna attack Banette with Groudon twice over?
Anybody ever heard of Uber Banette lead not carrying Destiny Bond?
Expecially, because you have sash your opponet will see that you are faster. Only reason I can think for ramming lead Groudon into Destiny Bond is not having any use for it + hating Trick Room.

Darkamber8828: "IMO, Paralyzing one thing in Ubers is a utility role, with all the speed ties and the fact that stuff wrecks shit as long as it's faster, if that's intelligible."

Paralysing a lead? While trying to take it out with Destiny Bond? In simulator play, a team can easily be centered around Trick Room:
You will have limited number of turns when your whole team outspeed your opponet's whole team.
Paralysis itself is worthy on a normal team, and has practically limitless effect, but why try status spreading with a frail lead with nothing to set up?
+ Groudon and Garchomp can come freely on this one, and proceed to do as they wish. Groudon is 3HKOed or something by HP fire under sunlight (and RP or other faster variants outspeed this set).

P.S. unless your opponet switches, Thunder Wave's utility is pretty limited: rarely people use their only check/counter for something as a lead (unless the threat is almost always a lead, but do you really fear getting sweeped by Deoxys speed forme?) so defensive team's core will not suffer any serious damage. More offensive teams tend to have Twave absorbers (Oh, hello ScarfChomp. Wanna throw in a free Outrage or something?) and leads, that simply disregard paralysis, and simply set up their hazards/weather.
How would this lead do in theory?
Deoxys A/S/N may be defeated by Shadow Sneak and HP Fire hurts Scizor and Forretress, but everything else is under "KO with Destiny Bond" mark. Because you set up nothing, bonding away opposing leads is no victory, as they might still succeed in their own missions, and even if they don't, you get nothing out of it.
Groudon just sets up rocks, Shaymin has ~57% chance to flinch you, Kyogre might just carry Lum berry, Dialga might have Stealth Rock, Lum berry or even both, Mew has Synchronize, Giratina throws priority around, as do Metagross and Mamoswine, both equipped with some rocks, Infernape has rocks and might just U-turn out, Tyranitar comes with Rocks, Sandstorm and maybe even a Lum berry, Cloyster sets up hazards and has priority sometimes, as do Qwilfish and Frosslass.

What leads did I not mention? Darkrai mightn't stay in, expecially after being para'd, Lucario gets bonded, but that's no victory, it's a tie.
 
Late game Cleanup:

@ Life Orb
Adamant
252 Atk/252 Spe/6 Def
-Swords Dance
-Pursuit
-Quick Attack
-Bullet Punch

After you takeout all the resist such as Rock/Steel, you win. After one SD you one shot Vaporeon, which imo is pretty great. After one SD you OHKO Infernape as well.
 
I take it no one looked at this:

Dialga @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 232 HP/136 Atk/140 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Outrage
- Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
- Overheat / Earthquake

Use a 29 IV for Def. Dialgas typing lets him take out a poke or two with this set. +1 Life Orb Outrage is a fucking Nuke, doing over 70% to Support Groudon (who doesn't retaliate as well with your defense boost). Stone Edge is great if you hate Lugia, it always OHKOs at +1 after Stealth Rock, although Lugia can be a prick and use Reflect. Otherwise, Dragon Claw is still a nuke and good if you don't want to lock yourself in. Overheat takes care of steels extremely well if you have sun on your team.. and destroys Forry and Scizor (rain or sun) and BU Dialga's normal nemesis, Skarmory in the sun. If not, just use Earthquake. It hits Metagross better and can do alot to Tar.
 

firecape

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Dialga Set
What does this do that the Mixed set thats up doesn't, besides provide more bulk? Im no saying it doesn't work...but I fail to see what it accomplishes that the mix set cant do. For instance Mix Set can easily take out Skarmory, Forry, non-Specially Defensive Groudons, and Lugias. Does the added bulk let you survive some significant hits?
 
Hey, I've just made a wallbreaking mewtwo set that I'd like to show that counters classic stallers.

Mewtwo@Leftovers
204HP/252SAtk/36Spe/16SDef
Timid
-Taunt
-Recover
-Aura sphere
-Ice beam

EVs allow mewtwo to take 5 seismic tosses from blissey and outrun timid 192 Spe lugia. SAtk maxed and rest dumped in SDef. Recover + Taunt destroys blissey, lugia, giratina etc.
 
Hey, I've just made a wallbreaking mewtwo set that I'd like to show that counters classic stallers.

Mewtwo@Leftovers
204HP/252SAtk/36Spe/16SDef
Timid
-Taunt
-Recover
-Aura sphere
-Ice beam

EVs allow mewtwo to take 5 seismic tosses from blissey and outrun timid 192 Spe lugia. SAtk maxed and rest dumped in SDef. Recover + Taunt destroys blissey, lugia, giratina etc.
The only problem with this set is that Aura sphere won't do crap to Blissey, 407 Atk vs 405 Def & 652 HP (90 Base Power): 130 - 154 (19.94% - 23.62%). Mewtwo needs calm mind to even deal decent damage to Blissey. Taunt is useless with only a 5hko. Also the hp evs are meant for 101 hp subs, which isn't present on this set, the subs can survive a toss. With the speed reduction and no calm mind, Mewtwo can no longer beat Darkrai. With leftovers and no hp evs, Mewtwo would be 5hko'ed by toss anyways, which is the crux of this set. Completely outclassed by the tauntcm set.
 
I take it no one looked at this:
I've used a set like this, but with a Lum Berry, on a Dual Screen team that performed fairly well (then again, every Dual Screen team ever made does well in Ubers). Dialga's unique typing is an asset in Ubers, and although I'd much rather have Dragon Dance than Bulk Up, it's better than nothing.
 

Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Naive, 252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe
-Outrage
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
This set is mean to fool Uber thinking this is a Dragon Dancing Mence,
and can also trick the opponent into thinking you have a Rayquaza on your team.
Another advantage to this set is that this is one of the few things that can switch into a Scarfed Palkia, and OHKO it. (Dragon claw always OHKO's after SR damage.)
Outrage can always OHKO Giratina-O, and can 2HKO standard Giratina. (However, Dragon claw is a better option V.S Giratina-O, as it also 2HKO's.)
And, it can also 2HKO Mewtwo.
Dragon claw can, as mentioned earlier, OHKO Scarfed Palkia, as well as OHKOing both Latias and Latios after SR, and can 2HKO Shaymin-s.
Earthquake gives you some good coverage, 2HKOing Dialga, and OHKOing Heatran. However, this move could easily be switched to something else.
Fire Blast may seem strange on a otherwise physical set, but even without hardly any EV investment, you can OHKO Forretress, OHKO Scizor almost everytime after SR.
Hope you enjoy this set.
 

firecape

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What does that Salamence set have over Garchomp? Salamence is SR weak and only speedties with Scarf Palkia, and cant really switch in on anything but Earthquake. Garchomp, on the other hand, resists SR, always outspeeds Palkia with a Scarf, and has STAB on Earthquake. 5 points in Attack don't help you score any KOs either (if I am wrong please provide some calcs), and I'd trade 5 attack points and a SR weakness for a SR resist and 2 more speed any day.
 
For one thing, it has access to Fire Blast, Scizor can safely switch into Scarf Chomp, and SD or U-turn to scout, which can be a problem. Also, if you have a scarf mence, your free to use a SD Chomp, or any other variant you like.
 

firecape

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Garchomp has access to Fire Blast, but it doesn't need it because Earthquake always 2HKOs Ubers Choice Band Scizor.
 

shrang

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Okay, after seeing how cool the SalaQuaza combo was, and then having a look at the Ubers Jolteon set on C&C at the moment, I came up with this:


name: Mewtwo's Sweeping Partner
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Thunderbolt / Grass Knot / Shadow Ball
move 4: Explosion
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 32 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

I just want to post this here so people comment on it first before putting it up in QC.

Lures out quite a lot of CM Mewtwo's counters and destroys them. Steels are obliterated by +2 Fire Blast (In the sun, if possible). Thunderbolt does 87.6% minimum to standard Ho-oh and 97% minimum to bulky Kyogre. Explosion deals with Blissey. If you hate Lati@s, then Shadow Ball has a reasonable chance of OHKOing standard Latias after SR, Grass Knot is really used only for Tyranitar, but if you absolutely want Kyogre dead, Grass Knot is fine too, I guess. Base 115 Speed is great as it outspeeds Lugia and Lati@s. Scizor only runs 56 Atk EVs in the standard Ubers CB set, so Azelf can live one and OHKO Scizor with Fire Blast or Flamethrower. ScarfTar is fairly rare in Ubers as well.
 

shrang

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EVs: 252 SpA for maximum power, 216 Spe to outspeed Lati@s, 32 HP for Life Orb number and rest go into Attack, although it is probably better to just put 40 EVs into Attack. Azelf can't learn Thunder, that's why he's using Thunderbolt.
 
Okay, after seeing how cool the SalaQuaza combo was, and then having a look at the Ubers Jolteon set on C&C at the moment, I came up with this:


name: Mewtwo's Sweeping Partner
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Thunderbolt / Grass Knot / Shadow Ball
move 4: Explosion
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 32 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

I just want to post this here so people comment on it first before putting it up in QC.

Lures out quite a lot of CM Mewtwo's counters and destroys them. Steels are obliterated by +2 Fire Blast (In the sun, if possible). Thunderbolt does 87.6% minimum to standard Ho-oh and 97% minimum to bulky Kyogre. Explosion deals with Blissey. If you hate Lati@s, then Shadow Ball has a reasonable chance of OHKOing standard Latias after SR, Grass Knot is really used only for Tyranitar, but if you absolutely want Kyogre dead, Grass Knot is fine too, I guess. Base 115 Speed is great as it outspeeds Lugia and Lati@s. Scizor only runs 56 Atk EVs in the standard Ubers CB set, so Azelf can live one and OHKO Scizor with Fire Blast or Flamethrower. ScarfTar is fairly rare in Ubers as well.
I'm finding this set hardly worthwhile to set up over something like Nasty Plot Darkrai. Fragility is such an issue here, with paper defenses it has to rely Wobb to set up. Also you missed Giratina-O which this set seems to struggle against, unless the player chooses Shadow ball, which isn't wise since Thunderbolt would deal more damage overall to most ubers.
 
it avoids (toxic) spikes so it has an advantage versus stall teams... I haven't played for a long time so this what I am posting is pure theory but anyways... I would use Latios over it... but yeah it is blissey vs giratina issue... I think that vs stall it can do decent...

but, what about offense? I don't see how it could set up, it has only ground immunity, chomp doesn't lock itself into EQ, groudon doesn't switch into you and you don't risk him using rock polish or swords dance or thunderwave I guess... I remember how SD weavile sucked against offense and pretty much against everything without wobb support + sr + spikes ... I think that azelf has the same problem, you are playing 5vs6 if your opponent uses an offensive team
 

shrang

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Okay, just played around with a bastard set:


Qwilfish @ Splash Plate
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-Waterfall
-Destiny Bond
-Taunt
-Toxic Spikes/Spikes

Best used in the rain, seeing as it gets to 590 Speed, which outspeeds Scarf Skymin, which is pretty epic. This thing is a bastard to both Offense AND Stall if you can just keep Rain up. Waterfall for obvious STAB (And seeing as it's the only attack, Splash Plate works just fine). Taunt stops others setting up, while having fantastic synergy with Destiny Bond (Especially against not so powerful attackers like Giratina). If you play against Offense, just seek out their most dangeous threat not named Rayquaza or RP Groudon and Destiny Bond it for the auto kill. Against Stall, Taunt their wall and set up Toxic Spikes or Spikes. If you get close to dying, just Destiny Bond the crap out them.

Advantages of Destiny Bond over Explosion:
- Gets Giratina/Giratina-O
- Kills Groudon while Explosion won't
- Can get you a layer or two because the opponent would be too scared to attack you
 
Extreme Lead:
Arceus
@ Choice Scarf
Adamant
252 atk / 252 spe / 4/hp
-ExtremeSpeed
-Shadow Force/Punishment/Recover
-Trick
-Swords Dance

This set I came up with while tinkering with the extreme killer move set. If done right it can at least take out half an entire team assuming they aren't filled with walls...

So at the start of the battle trick choice scarf to the opponent.This will catch stealth rock leads by surprise or simply force a switch on other trick leads. Once that is done try to get as many Sword dances set up as possible or at least two. If they send out a frail sweeper use extreme speed to mow them down or shadow force for ghost counters if they keep expecting more extremeSpeed attacks. Punishment is optional if you have problems with Calm mind boosters. Recover can replace the second attack spot if you wish to try and keep arceus in the game to tire you opponent.

As for counters watch out bulky scarfed or spec's pkmn such as Kyogre/Palkia/dialga and steel/rock types unless you plan on testing you rluck by getting critical hits with extremeSpeed.
 

Jibaku

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Arceus can not use Trick (it can learn it for some reason though). It's a bug on PO that lets Arceus use Trick and switch items. Also, your EV spread is illegal.
 
Arceus can not use Trick (it can learn it for some reason though). It's a bug on PO that lets Arceus use Trick and switch items. Also, your EV spread is illegal.
hmm never knew that, only thought it was when it held a plate. and i forgot about it only being allowed a certain amount of evs. but my bad&thanks for pointing that out to me.
 
I checked Smogon pokedex for interesting Swords Dance sweepers and looked on... Ursaring. While at first it may look totally mediocre, however it has few unique advantages over pokemon like Groudon or Normal Arceus. Those are:

a) Unique speed tier (with Quick Feet). It outspeeds most important targets like Garchomp, Palkia and even Physically Defensive MewTwo and Lugia, as those two run enough speed to outspeed Garchomp, normally the fastest physical sweeper in tier without any speed boosts.
b) Great coverage. Facade, Crunch and Close Combat/Earthquake cover all neccesary targets, which allows you to have this one slot for Swords Dance.
c) Can't be statused. Pokemon like Giratina, which rely on WoW to stop sweepers like Lucario or Groudon can't do it here as with Toxic Orb Ursaring easily ignores Giratina attempts to stop it. Ursaring isn't the bulkiest guy in Ubers, however can take one hit (or maybe two sometimes) from Ubers walls.

Anyway, some calculations. To be honest I tested Ursaring on Shoddy ladder only and my rating is a bit low right now (and I can't play so often right now), so opponents weren't the strongest. However it wasn't bad and had some solid surprise factor.

+2 Crunch vs:

Great Wall Giratina = 44.53% - 52.49% ---> 77% to 2OHKO with SR up
200 HP Giratina-O = 68.02% - 80.24% ---> 100% to 2OHKO.
4 HP Giratina-O = 79.37% - 93.42% ---> 41% to OHKO with SR up.

+2 Facade vs:

Physically Defensive MewTwo = 95.43% - 112.50% ---> 100% OHKO with SR up.
Great Wall Lugia = 83.17% - 98.08% ---> 100% OHKO with SR up
Supporting Groudon = 82.43% - 97.28% ---> 20,51% to OHKO with SR up, one set of spikes and SR almost secures OHKO
Standard Garchomp = MINIMUM 133% ---> Obvious OHKO even without SR
Max HP Kyogre = minimum 123% ---> Again obvious OHKO even without SR

+2 Earthquake vs:

Max HP Metagross = 94.51% - 111.54% ---> 100% OHKO with one set of Spikes, with SR almost guarranteed.

Anyway, as you see damage which Ursaring deals is good, however I agree that this face few troubles.

a) Scarfers and pokemon with positive +110 speed. In other words Wobbufett is a must, without it Ursaring have alot of trouble to set-up.
b) Ursaring have problems against offensive teams, as finding this free Swords Dance is hard, but it still hits for solid damage even without Swords Dance. However Ursaring is good when it goes to wall-breaking, as it can get through most walls without many problems. Skarmory and Bronzong stops it cold though (without Close Combat obviously or strange Fire Punch in sun). Really Defensive Groudon easily take hit and roar it away.
c) Priority. In Ubers it's mostly Scizor (good news though is that Scizor not that often here use max attack with Choice Band allowing Ursaring to easily survive hit and hit hard back). However Rayquaza and Lucario also dent it with ESpeed, so something to take this priority is really nice to see.

I guess that's it ;). Any comments ?
 

Manaphy

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Okay, after seeing how cool the SalaQuaza combo was, and then having a look at the Ubers Jolteon set on C&C at the moment, I came up with this:


name: Mewtwo's Sweeping Partner
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Thunderbolt / Grass Knot / Shadow Ball
move 4: Explosion
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 32 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

I just want to post this here so people comment on it first before putting it up in QC.

Lures out quite a lot of CM Mewtwo's counters and destroys them. Steels are obliterated by +2 Fire Blast (In the sun, if possible). Thunderbolt does 87.6% minimum to standard Ho-oh and 97% minimum to bulky Kyogre. Explosion deals with Blissey. If you hate Lati@s, then Shadow Ball has a reasonable chance of OHKOing standard Latias after SR, Grass Knot is really used only for Tyranitar, but if you absolutely want Kyogre dead, Grass Knot is fine too, I guess. Base 115 Speed is great as it outspeeds Lugia and Lati@s. Scizor only runs 56 Atk EVs in the standard Ubers CB set, so Azelf can live one and OHKO Scizor with Fire Blast or Flamethrower. ScarfTar is fairly rare in Ubers as well.
Looks neat, but I would go with Tripe on this one and use something like NP Darkrai.

Facade, Crunch and Close Combat/Earthquake
I might throw Ice Punch in there, as It hits Lugia, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Salamence, and Shaymin-S harder. I would probably remove Cunch also, as most Pyschic's get hurt by STAB Facade or Ice Punch. Earthquake would probably be a good replacement, hitting Jirachi ,Dialga, Metagross, and Tyranitar Super-Effectively.
 
I might throw Ice Punch in there, as It hits Lugia, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Salamence, and Shaymin-S harder. I would probably remove Cunch also, as most Pyschic's get hurt by STAB Facade or Ice Punch. Earthquake would probably be a good replacement, hitting Jirachi ,Dialga, Metagross, and Tyranitar Super-Effectively.
Crunch is mainly for Giratina forms and to be honest for nothing else, as other Pokemon you hit harder with STAB Facade. About Ice Punch - Rayquaza doesn't stand a chance anyway against Facade, the same looks with Garchomp, Salamence, Lugia and Shaymin-S, so Ice Punch isn't really good option IMO. However it's good in one situation - when you can't find this turn for Swords Dance (however, ironically, in Ubers it's much easier thanks to Wobba) and with Ice Punch you beat most those targets without boost, which Facade can't do. Also you lower your 2OHKO chance on Giratina, which is pretty bad news. Also you lower your chance to OHKO 4 HP Giratina. But I guess Ice Punch isn't that bad.
 

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