Theorymon Sessions

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God those calcs tho. Waterfall Kingler would be a major threat in the meta due to its raw power and the ability to set up on literally every Ground-type in the tier that isn't Torterra, as well as a plethora of physical attackers due to its decent Defense. Waterfall, boosted by Sheer Force, is extremely powerful and 100% accurate, which is already an amazing plus over Crabhammer. This, coupled with Kingler's near perfect coverage with Water-type STAB and Return alone, make it very hard to stop if it gets a boost in Agility or Swords Dance, or quite possibly both. Kingler would easily become one of the best cleaners in the tier, easily sweeping up the opposition. I could see it being a fantastic partner for Choiced Charizard, who is fantastic at completely dismantling the walls that Kingler can't bust through, such as Alomomola, as easily as others.

So, I got a question that may or may not solve one of Kingler's issues, that being coverage (though he doesn't really have major problems with it).

What if Kingler got Dragon Dance?

While it may be odd to give a crab Dragon Dance, it is flavorful in that crabs tend to 'dance' with their claws to both attract mates and while fighting other crabs for dominance. I would make an argument for Crawdaunt also getting it, but Crawdaunt's sorta a crawdad, not a crab :x

Dragon Dance for Kingler solves some issues for Kingler, but also leaves some things to be desired. For one, Kingler can now boost its Speed and Attack in one turn, instead of spending 2 max to boost both stats. While it's not boosting to +2 in the respective stat in a turn, it is extremely useful if you need extra power and speed, and are crunched for turns, which is common in many late-game situations in NU. Kingler can now also run a coverage move that allows it to smack the Grass-types that give it trouble, such as Tangela, Tropius, and Cradily (I should also mention that this Theorymon is building off of the Kingler getting Waterfall Theorymon.). I would personally run X-Scissor if given the extra moveslot, but another good option is Rock Slide, which deals heavy damage, accompanied by a Sheer Force boost.

There are problems with Dragon Dance Kingler, however; it still needs more than at turn of setup to hit the speed it needs to and net the OHKOs it wants to net. +1/+1 Kingler is still not so fast/not so powerful, so you'll need 2 boosts for the most part. On the double dance set, the option of one of the other allows you to either boost your speed to +2 and clean up, or go to +2 attack and bust through sturdy walls mid-game. While it is a cool tool, Kingler still would like the option to boost one or the other stat giving the situation.
 
To be fair, Crawdaunt already gets Dragon Dance. I wouldn't put it past Game Freak to let a crab do the same.

Yeah I knew it did lol. I was just saying that I wasn't going to make the comparison of "well, Crawdaunt gets it!", because they aren't based off of the same species. But yeah, I think they should give it to Kingler, personally.
 
If all these kingler changes happened, I would have a good reason for using it other than it being fucking awesome. I cba doing speed calcs rn, but a couple of dragon dances would enable it to outspeddbthe majority of the tier and KILL EVERYTHING!!!¡¡¡

Seriously though, that kingler would be so good, and I personally would include it on most of my teams. With toxic spikes support for things like alomomola and seismitoad, it could destroy pretty much the whole tier with sub, DD, waterfall and x-scissor or rock slide.

Now, What if Fly didn't have a charge turn?

This would give flying types a reliable flying stab without the brave bird recoil. I'm not sure if it would be preferred on swellow or not, but sub bu braviary would like it, enabling it to sub more and roost less because of the lack of recoil. Defensive Pokemon such as, once again, defensive braviary would love to work with it, as it doesn't wear them down just by attacking. Also, GOLURK. Golurk with no charge fly would be awesome if only to add to the unpredictability of it. Leave your thoughts about this.
 
Golurk and Vibrava are the only non-flying mons who can abuse Fly so I doubt it would make TOO much of a difference.

Some new theories:
What if the Electirizer and Magmarizers increased the power of every move of Electabuzz and Magmar respectively by 50% without locking them in(effectively a choice item without being locked)

Electabuzz and Magmar would suddenly become much better mons. The equivalent of a choice-boost without locking them in as well as Vital Spirit that helps beat out Jynx would make both very popular.
Some sample calcs:
252+ SpA Electirizer Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 211-249 (48.72 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Electirizer Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 157-186 (48.45 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magmarizer Magmar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 205-243 (63.27 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magmarizer Magmar Fire Blast vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 276-325 (63.74 - 75.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
An added boost for Electabuzz is it's great speed and the ability to easily beat out Mandibuzz. Magmar boasts higher power though.
 
You know, a better bump would include a theorymon.

What if Golbat acquired Sky Drop? Justification: It's annoying and Golbat is meant to be an obnoxious cave demon. I'm not sure it would warrant a moveslot most of the time, but as a wall I think Golbat could appreciate the extra turn of toxic damage on the foe. (Even without leftovers to take full advantage of it.)
 

Celever

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Two things brought up on irc.
Arena Trap Vibrava
Arena Trap Vibrava would be something I absolutely love, however the following idea may out-class Vibrava believe-it-or-not.
Sucker Punch Trapinch
Now the reasoning for these two is to have some top-notch-trappers. Trapinch has a whopping 100 base attack, and with dark gem sucker punches that could be an incredible revenger in NU. On the other hand arena trap Vibrava is bulkier and has a much wider movepool, however he is much weaker with 70 base attack.



So discuss!
 

Celever

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Sorry about double-post, but another thing (it only bumps this way ;))

Magic Coat Ninjas
Ok this doesn't make much sense I grant you, but with Magic Coat Ninjask would be able to reflect roars and whirlwinds targeted at him. Discuss etc.
 
Hmm... it does sound like a move with a niche. The problem I see is that baton-pass Ninjask seems to already have 4MSS. You definitely need Swords Dance, you probably want Protect, you have to have Baton Pass, and then both substitute and x-scissor/u-turn are tempting. I could see it going in the last slot, especially since Magic Coat gives a better answer to Taunt than X-Scissor on a defensive pass set.
 
All three of these are very interesting topics, Celever. Very interesting indeed :).

Arena Trap Vibrava is... interesting, to say the least. While being able to trap anything is nice, Vibrava doesn't supply much offensive presence, and it's not all that bulky, so attempting to stall something out with Toxic is probably not gonna happen unless you trap something with absolutely no offensive presence itself. While this sounds extremely negative, Vibrava has a niche of some sort, I'm sure. Access to Substitute, Roost, and Toxic, while also carrying a pretty okay typing, may allow it to combat and Toxic Stall a lot of the tier's common walls, such as Alomomola, Tangela (that do not pack HP Ice), Metang (even though it cannot Toxic it, Vibrava could possibly run Earthquake in the last spot in order to severely dent the automaton without it being able to switch out.), and other, various bulky Pokemon that cannot normally touch Vibrava. While the niche is small, Vibrava also gets access to Tailwind, being able to trap a wall, set up a Tailwind, and U-turn out to a slower Pokemon that cannot normally be touched by said trapped Pokemon. I can think of a few interesting sets:

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def (can be exchanged for 252 SpDef, depending on what you want to trap, I guess)
Impish Nature (or a Careful one. Read the above)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic
- Earthquake / Outrage (idk why you would but whatevs)

- - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- U-turn
- Tailwind
- Toxic

Could work I suppose.

As for What if Trapinch learned Sucker Punch, say hello to Dugtrio 2.0! While it is extremely slow, a combination of Sucker Punch, Focus Sash (or Choice Band if you're feeling frosty), and Arena Trap would allow Trapinch to function as a fantastic revenge killer, easily dismembering an important attacker on the opponent's team. It still has its own usual problems, in the form of things that can take its attacks and kill back, as well as offensive Pokemon with reliable recovery (substitute is now worrisome.) and the ability to set up on it. This would, however, make Trapinch very good in the current meta, as it easily smokes threats such as Jynx with ease.

Onto Magic Coat Ninjask . This would be a very interesting option if you are going with a more defensive approach to the ninja bug, but it wouldn't see that much usage, imo. While it's really useful for bouncing back Taunt, many players prefer straight up attacking the bug, and would have reason enough to if you misplay and Magic Coat on something that can kill (like Samurott who run taunt, or Serperior, for example.), but that all comes down the player's prediction. Still, it's a cool tool.
 

Celever

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What about levitate Metang?

It only makes sense, I mean look at him. Personally I see Metang becoming a top tier threat as with Autotomize and Earthquake he will be able to counter most fire types in the tier that would try and come in to take Metang out. Charizard would have trouble switching into Metang due to Metang setting up Stealth Rock beforehand. It would also make Seismitoad less popular.
 

Punchshroom

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Levitate Metang probably won't see much use as an offensive poke but would be a top-notch wall. Remember Bronzong? Removing one's weaknesses is always a plus, as demonstrated by Piloswine and of course Eelektross, but now Metang does not fear Ground-types, but actually wall them back. Awesome.
 
I agree, metang will become amazing defensively with only one weakness(which is easily covered by Seismitoad for instance) and two immunities(poison and ground) amongst a plethora of resists.
 
What if Driblim learned Recover/Roost?

The possibilities would be pretty big - the Calm Mind set would be even more effective, Drifblim can make more effective use of its typing and heal off SR damage, and more interestingly, it might finally make Flare Boost viable.
 
Roost Drifblim would be a very cool Pokémon in the current metagame, utilizing its fantastic array if resistances and decent bulk to function more effectively as a bulky attacker. As mentioned before, Calm Mind would very well be the set of choice, allowing the balloon to boost and recover health simultaneously without the use of Rest. It is also notable that Drifblim sports perfect coverage in Shadow Ball and Hidden Power [Fighting], meaning that nothing short of a dedicated special wall or a Scarf Stone Edge will be able to halt its sweep after a few Calm Minds . This is also a good reason for Drifblim to utilize Flare Boost over Unburden, as its special attack can be boosted from the get-go, and Drifblim can avoid being worn down by the Flame Orb with its new recovery move.
 
RU July Stats said:
| 56 | Golurk | 3.56545% | 2194 | 3.043% | 1869 | 3.151% |
| 57 | Poliwrath | 3.53686% | 2664 | 3.695% | 2174 | 3.665% |
If it isn't clear, if this pattern continues for the next two months, Golurk will rise back up and Poliwrath has a chance of moving down. How will the absence of Golurk and the introduction of Poliwrath affect the metagame?
 
If it isn't clear, if this pattern continues for the next two months, Golurk will rise back up and Poliwrath has a chance of moving down. How will the absence of Golurk and the introduction of Poliwrath affect the metagame?
If Golurk rise up, don't forget that it's a ghost type that leaves NU metagame, that means a spin blocker. So the usage of misdreavus and haunter will rise. As Golurk is main a ST setter, and also an eletrick immunity, Seismitoad usage will rise up too imo.
 
If Golurk rise up, don't forget that it's a ghost type that leaves NU metagame, that means a spin blocker. So the usage of misdreavus and haunter will rise. As Golurk is main a ST setter, and also an eletrick immunity, Seismitoad usage will rise up too imo.
I'm not sure I agree with Seismitoad usage rising. One brilliant thing about toad is its ability to counter the giant. Not gonna say much else since I gtg, except that there aren't going to be any more tier changes until XY, so Golurk won't rise anyway.
 
If it isn't clear, if this pattern continues for the next two months, Golurk will rise back up and Poliwrath has a chance of moving down. How will the absence of Golurk and the introduction of Poliwrath affect the metagame?
This isn't really a big deal, as usage based tier changes are over for BW2 with XY coming out in October, the same month that the normal tier change would happen. It's still an interesting theorymon anyways (I mean, nothing else that has been brought up in this thread will likely ever happen either), so feel free to discuss it! Just know that it won't be happening.
 
What if Espeon (without Magic Bounce) and Entei were in NU?

Both of these Pokemon were considered broken in DPP NU and are generally banned in DPP NU Tournaments. However, in BW NU, new Pokemon such as Mandibuzz and Carracosta are present that can do a lot to stop them. Would these Pokemon still be as overwhelming as they were in DPP NU if they were in BW NU?
 

soulgazer

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If Entei was NU, I can see Regirock, Alomomola, and Carracosta rising a lot, as the three takes nothing from Flare Blitz and Espeed ( even though it takes a good chunck with Stone Edge)and frail scarfer such as Jynx be used less, as it can easily take it down with a +2 priority move or be a sleep absorber for the time, as Entei usually don't need the 4th moveslot. Entei can also run a mean Special set with hidden power grass, killing its counters such as Alomomola, Seismitoad, Carracosta, and other Water-type. Regirock would still be able to handle it quite easily with its incredible bulk though. Entei would centralize the metagame, if not be plain broken as any Pokemon slower than him which can't take a hit or is set up fodder for Entei will most probably drop.

For Espeon, we are talking about a Pokemon with base 130 SpA and 110 Spe, which is godly. Nothing will enjoy switching on Espeon in fear of getting 2HKO by Psychic or its coverage moves. Skuntank won't enjoy switching in either, as it easily get 2HKO by a Life Orb Hp Ground. I could see Psychic/Ghost spam being used more, with lures like Gardevoir or Haunter with Destiny Bond to get ride of Espeon's check. Liepard would still be a problem though, as its Utility set can easily encore them on Dbond and give the possibility to another mon to set up. Like Entei, Espeon will most probably be claimed broken even with Synchronize.
 
Entei sounds ridiculously broken, but it would be a lot of fun while it lasted! Flare Blitz is super strong (comparable to Emboar) and it also has Espeed for priority.

I think a Mixed Entei would be a lot of fun, because all the best counters to Entei are weak to Grass attacks (mola, Regirock, costa) so a SunnyBeamer set could really wreck, it loses a lot of its most common counters quickly. Or just power herb solarbeam and wreck FLCL with it maybe :)
 
Yeah, Espeon would be super cool, and it'd make a great addition for Psychic spam teams with a fast Baton Pass to escape from Skuntank. What I would hate about it would be having to run near max Speed, near max HP Scolipede instead of its current bulky spread, but it would be cool, at that same time, to have a really good Pokemon that sat above the base 95 Speed tier. While its coverage options aren't the greatest (no Focus Blast ;-; ), they're still about as good (if not as good) as most of the prominent Psychic-types in the tier, and what it lacks in a bit of coverage, it more than makes up for with its awesome Speed and what would tie for the highest Special Attack in NU. I doubt that it would need to be banned, but Espeon would definitely be a top NU threat.

The thought of Entei in NU scares me a lot. While it might not have the best coverage options, it still has a really powerful Flare Blitz as well as priority Extremespeed to send a lot of the frail offensive threats in the tier shaking. There are some really good checks to it, such as Regirock and Carracosta, but at the same time, currently popular Normal/Flying resists, such as Metang and Klang, would also fall out of favor a lot due to their inability to do much to Entei outside of the former hoping to hit it on the switch with Earthquake. I'm not sure if it'd be so broken that it would be banned, but I remember a lot of controversy surrounding Emboar before its rise. I could see Entei receiving a lot of that same controversy.
 

Celever

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Entei does not have a great movepool, so it's standard set runs HP Grass, all of the people saying Regirock and Carracosta wall Entei are incorrect, and Entei literally does not have a straight counter in NU. RU has pokemon like Qwilfish who have intimidate to weaken Entei and then be neutral to HP Grass, but the only thing I can see NU having is Alomomola once someone works out how many specially defensive EVs it needs to tank some HP Grasses. Believe it or not I think a good counter to Entei would be Tentacool, who has enough special defense to tank the Hidden power Grass with Eviolite and no EV investment letting it go full physical defense.
 
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