The UU Role Comparison Project

CoolStoryBrobat

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Yeah, I kinda figured this would cause a massive cluttering on the OP. The only thing I could reasonably think of is if we have like a regularly updated "topic" of which Pokemon we should compare (I.E., Choice Specs users, Scarfers, bulky ___ types, etc. etc.) But even then it would still be hard to limit cluttering, unless we took this to like a pastebin or something. Haha, it's a pretty huge project. I guess that's also up for discussion in the long run
 
I was figuring that it could be like the classification thread, in which the comparisons are housed under several different headers/hide tags to do with their subject matter [hail abuser, spiker, etc] and the posts are then linked to in that sense... Though that sounds a bit cluttered, too... Hm...
 
[*]Many coverage moves at its disposal to fit Porygon-Z's needs (i.e. Psychic, Signal Beam, Thunder(bolt), Blizzard, etc..)
This is my only gripe, all of these coverage Moves you mentioned really aren't of much use to Porygon-Z. All he really needs is his STAB, as Adaptability Tri Attack obliterates just about anything neutral to it, and specific coverage Moves to deal super effective damage to Normal-type resists and Ghosts. Therefore there really isn't any reason to run coverage Moves on him aside from Hidden Power Fighting and Dark Pulse. He needs that coverage so if you forgo any Moves it would be Trick, which is probably going to be more useful than things like Psychic or even Thunderbolt on average. I dunno maybe there is some use, but I imagine it's pretty situational. Aside from that great job.
 
I have one issue with your analysis, and one issue only.

...Chandelure looks way better non-shiny. >:I
:-) Orange > Blue

I feel a poll in the works...

As for the post about the coverage moves from specter...

All I was saying is that while Tri-Attack/HP Fighting/Dark Pulse round off the great coverage and hits everything is that Porygon-Z has the options while Chandelure has a few moves really at its disposal. It has Shadow Ball, Fire Blast, Overheat, Energy Ball, Psychic, HP Fighting and Solarbeam (Sunny Day team?) at its disposal. The reason I feel that Chandelure is up there in the usage is due to its nigh-perfect synergy with #1 Heracross. Once chandy gets Shadow Tag and thus the boot from UU (maybe OU since it is a very unfriendly environment for a Fire Ghost in a rain/Ttar dominated meta), I think people will find Porygon-Z a great replacement in Chandy's role while still having decent synergy with Heracross (fighting weakness covered).
 
Well I get that but my point is that the fact that PZ has other options is irrelevant as it has no need to run those Moves. Like you said, those 3 Moves cover everything so it's not really advantageous to have more attacking options than Chandelure as it doesn't benefit PZ to actually use them. So it just shouldn't be considered an advantage or a reason to use PZ over Chandy as a Choice Specs user.
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
vs


Meloetta's Advantages:

  • Much higher Special Attack, allowing it to effectively use a Specs set or just attack right off the bat
  • Immune to Ghost-type attacks
  • Has Serene Grace and several moves that abuse it
  • Can run a mixed set that breaks almost all of its normal counters (Work Up/Close Combat)
  • Much higher Special Defense allows for a much easier time setting up and sweeping, especially with the prevalence of pokemon like Blastoise, and Zapdos
Mew's Advantages:
  • The biggest movepool in all of pokemon, aside from Ditto. Can learn any TM, HM, and Move Tutor since the 3rd Generation
  • Mew's solid stats allow it to actually abuse its extremely vast movepool. Mew can be taylor-made for any team, thus making it an extremely unpredictable pokemon.
  • Much better Physical bulk
  • Resists Fighting-type attacks
  • Higher speed which allows it to outrun Pory-Z, Offensive Roserade, Non-scarfed darmanitan, and Xatu.
  • Doesn't need to rely on Focus Blast when using special set
  • Is way more adorable than Meloetta
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Oughtta keep this thread goin', so I'm here with this one.

Lilligant as an Offensive Grass-type vs. Roserade

vs.


Lilligant's Advantages:

1. Quiver Dance: Lilligant can get her Speed and Special Attack higher up, becoming insanely fast and powerful with boosts in hand, and can become an extremely threatening sweeper, and can outpace the whole metagame
2. Ground resistance: Lilligant resists Ground, whereas Roserade is neutral to it (thanks to the Poison typing). This means Lilligant can have a smoother switch-in to Pokemon such as Scarf Krookodile and Nidoking, and use that to start its sweeping spree with Sleep Powder+QD.
3. Better physical bulk: Okay, this isn't that big of an advantage, but this means Lilligant can take lighter physical hits so it's not that hard for it to set up.

Lilligant's Disadvantages:

1. Lack of immediate power: Roserade has higher Special Attack off the bat, and with room for Leaf Storm, Roserade can post the immediate threat, wheras Lilligant kinda needs to grab those boosts to be the real threat.
2. Dependence on Hidden Power: Lilligant needs to gamble on what Hidden Power to use as that's its only good coverage going for it. Roserade, on the other hand, has a good STAB in Sludge Bomb to shit on opposing Shaymin and Virizion, as well as Extrasensory to nail Crobat, so it can run an all out set and is not as easy to wall.
3. Toxic/Toxic Spikes: Lilligant is vulenerable to poison from Toxic and Toxic Spikes, and can cripple its longevity quite well. Roserade is immune to this, and it can also remove Toxic Spikes from the field.
4. Lack of Spikes: This basically means Roserade can also function as a hazard setter, which Lilligant can't do
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
The biggest movepool in all of pokemon, aside from Smeargle
Fixed. I don't see an "edit post" button >_>

Anyways @Scrafty: You might want to note that Roserade can use both Synthesis and Rest (via Natural Cure) whereas Lilligant is forced to rely on Giga Drain. That's a pretty big advantage in Roserade's favor, I think.
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
The biggest movepool in all of pokemon, aside from Smeargle
Fixed. I don't see an "edit post" button >_>

Anyways @Scrafty: You might want to note that Roserade can use both Synthesis and Rest (via Natural Cure) whereas Lilligant is forced to rely on Giga Drain. That's a pretty big advantage in Roserade's favor, I think.
 
Fixed. I don't see an "edit post" button >_>
*just an FYI, at the moment you can't edit posts after they've been up for five minutes, nor can you delete posts. I'm sure the function will return soon, but in the meantime...
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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While I sit and ponder what we could do when this thread gets bigger, and while I adjust myself to these new forums...

Rotom-Heat Vs. Raikou as a choiced electric-type attacker

vs.


Rotom's advantages:
  • Secondary fire typing gives it a STAB Overheat to decimate bulky grass-types such as Shaymin and Roserade, who could otherwise tank a good few of your hits as well as generally more coverage to hit things alongside HP Grass/Ice
  • Despite having lower HP, its 50/107/107 defenses add a bit of bulk
  • Surprisingly useful defensive typing when factoring in Levitate, resists the infamous "BoltBeam" (We say Tundrabolt now, it's 2013) combo, and allows it to check a few Pokemon effectively that Raikou normally couldn't, such as Zapdos, Nidoking/Queen (long as they aren't using Sludge Wave/Focus Blast), opposing Rotom-H, most choiced Ground-types, etc.
  • Also weak only to Rock and Water, which is easy to cover with team support
  • Levitate allows it to ignore Spikes/Toxic Spikes, which allows it to switch in significantly more often as long as Stealth Rock isn't present, as well as enter in Choice-locked Earthquakes
  • Access to Trick to cripple walls and whatever Pokemon that can't deal with holding a Choice Scarf/Specs
  • Cooks tasty meals much more rapidly
Rotom's disadvantages:
  • Significantly lower HP stat and lower SpA, meaning without HP investment it can't even take resisted hits over and over without losing a big chunk, and that it can't hit as hard as Raikou
  • Also significantly slower than Raikou, who sits at the rare base 115 speed tier, something few Pokemon in UU can boast being able to outspeed/tie with
  • Usually has to carry Volt Switch and forgo Thunderbolt, meaning the main electrical STAB isn't always going to kill off targets weak to it one-on-one (Though you can run this over Trick or summin. But then you lose Trick!)
  • Glaring Stealth Rock weakness hinders how often it can switch in, which doesn't help seeing it's a hit-and-run attacker to the very definition
  • Has to rely on Overheat for its Fire STAB, which will most of the time force you to switch after dealing damage and taking a -2 SpA
  • Water-type weakness reduces how much it can safely switch in on the bulky waters it's able to ironically deal with due to being an Electric-type
 
i think id choose Raikou every time the sr weakness is just to much imo for a scarfer especially when gaining momentum using volt switch is a job of these scarfers.I got to say i really don't like the fire sub type i know its come with awesome advantages its just seems like a liability. In rotoms defence though it does help with shaymin at the moment who is becoming very dominant Dont know if it can take a seed flare though
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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i think id choose Raikou every time the sr weakness is just to much imo for a scarfer especially when gaining momentum using volt switch is a job of these scarfers.I got to say i really don't like the fire sub type i know its come with awesome advantages its just seems like a liability. In rotoms defence though it does help with shaymin at the moment who is becoming very dominant Dont know if it can take a seed flare though
Well bear in mind I said a choiced attacker, not necessarily only scarfed. Meaning Specs is also an option for wallbreaking effectively. Really the SR weakness isn't often as bad as it seems when you think about the fact you would rarely switch in a scarfer on a hard-hitting move in general that you think would be doing a huge chunk to it. However it does hurt your constant Volt Switch shenanigans.
 
Well bear in mind I said a choiced attacker, not necessarily only scarfed. Meaning Specs is also an option for wallbreaking effectively. Really the SR weakness isn't often as bad as it seems when you think about the fact you would rarely switch in a scarfer on a hard-hitting move in general that you think would be doing a huge chunk to it. However it does hurt your constant Volt Switch shenanigans.
i think another problem with the choiced rotom h ive tried is it can be set up bait after that overheat because you have to switch realisticly
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
vs


Cobalion's advantages:
  • Higher base speed (base 108 compared to base 85) which allows it to get the jump on a lot of threats in the tier
  • Secondary Steel typing, which gives it a double resist to Rock and Dark, and a resist to Dragon, Normal, and Bug
  • Monstrous base 129 Defense (along with that great Steel typing) which allows it to switch into a couple of notable pokemon (such as Snorlax and Umbreon)
  • Justified
  • Can set up Stealth Rock
  • Can run Hidden Power Ice to eliminate Gligar without having to sacrifice too much health
  • Can run Volt Switch
  • Can viably run special attacks, with a movepool that consists of Calm Mind, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Volt Switch, and Flash Cannon
Heracross's advantages:
  • Much higher base attack (125 compared to 90)
  • A monstrous STAB combo resisted by only a few pokemon (Close Combat and Megahorn)
  • Can run Pursuit to take out Chandelure
  • Guts allows it to more effectively break stall. Also, fuck Scald.
  • Moxie, allowing it to very effectively clean
  • Can effectively run Swords Dance, Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and debtably SubSalac/Endure Salac while Cobalion is stuck with just Swords Dance.
  • Secondary Bug typing, granting it a resistance to other Fighting-types, and Ground.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Let's also not forget Cobalion's able to run a full-on utility set and has access to support moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave to help its team accordingly while still performing as a fast Fighting type to a less offensive extent. And prolly also how Hera can at least run a multitude of choice sets effectively.
 
Suicune vs Slowbro as a Defensive Calm Minder.

vs.


Suicune's pros:
  • Bulkier overall, with 100/115/115 defences as opposed to 95/110/80
  • Not weak to bug attacks, and Heracross is one of the most used Pokemon in the tier [and one it could ideally check with its resistance]
  • Not weak to dark or ghost and, by extension, Pursuit or U-Turn
  • Pressure allows it to stall out low PP moves with ease
  • Can take the status that would otherwise threaten a sweep
  • Much faster than Slowbro, allowing it to get the jump on water-weak Pokemon like Rhyperior
Suicune's Cons:
  • Lower Special Attack causes it to do less damage overall
  • Unlike Slowbro, needs to rely on Rest + Sleep Talk for healing, which can be unreliable, and forces it to lose to Water Absorb Pokemon due to only one attacking move.
  • Lacks a fighting resistance- a very common attacking type in the tier - and lacks another STAB for coverage.
  • Slowbro's Regenerator is arguably better, as it allows Slowbro to recuperate some of its HP when it switches out
  • Slowbro has slightly more utility, with moves such as Thunder Wave and Trick Room for supporting the team, and Fire Blast as an alternate attacking option, though their movepools are similar.
^ Did I miss anything?
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
^I would note that Slowbro has a really vast support movepool as well. Suicune is kind of limited to like Scald and Roar, while Slowbro can support the team in a multitude of ways, with Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Scald for status, Psyshock, Ice Beam, and Fire Blast to break through some common walls or switch-ins, and Light Screen and Trick Room to support other members of the team.
 
I thinl cm slowbro is bettef in most ways and can actually beat suicune 1v1 thanks to psyshock. I find it ridiculoua when people try going toe to toe with cm slowbro.personally id prefer slowbro over suicune almost every day : )
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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CroCune is actually still really good, it has the bulk to take on most stuff and can be a good late game cleaner. That aside, here's a good one I've got.

Mismagius as a Ghost-type special sweeper vs. Cofagrigus

vs.


Mismagius's Advantages:

Better initial Speed: Mismagius has a solid 105 Speed to work with, outpacing most of UU bar Azelf and the likes. This means Mismagius can more quickly fire Attacks without the need to set up Trick Room every time. This also means Mismagius has room to run Substitute to avoid status, and always has the immediate Speed to work with.

Levitate: While not as useful as Mummy, Levitate means Mismagius is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, meaning she is not worn down as easily, only by SR, as opposed to Cofagrigus losing quick HP every time it enters or immediate poison, to a lesser extent. This ability also means Mismagius is a viable check to Nidoking and Nidoqueen, something Cofagrigus cannot boast having the luxury of doing.

Taunt: Mismagius can deter setup opportunities thanks to this move, while also stopping Thunder Wave to cripple it. Toxic and Roar are crippling to Cofagrigus, however, Mismagius can avoid these moves thanks to it, that is, if you run this move.

Thunderbolt: Mismagius can fit this great move onto its NP set, and has the advantage over Cofagrigus here with it. With either this or Taunt, Mismagius is not completely helpless against Togekiss, which is something against Cofagrigus. This also means Mismagius can deliver a harder blow to certain Water-types such as Blastoise and Suicune, the former being especially useful since this aids Mismagius as a spinblocker.

Mismagius's Disadvantages

Lack of sheer physical bulk: Despite its immunity to Fighting, Mismagius is very frail on the physical side, meaning heavy physical attack barrages can easily make work of it. Cofagrigus has superb physical bulk to work with, and can thus be a better check against Mienshao and gang, while as a result it has an easier time grabbing the NP boost that counts.

Trick Room: While Mismagius can function outside of Trick Room unlike Cofagrigus, this move is just a really good, anti-metagame move that can be used as a supportive option as well. This means Cofagrigus can turn every fast Pokemon into a liability, while it also provides great support to slower Pokemon such as Escavalier, Rhyperior, and Snorlax.
 
vs.
as Physical Water-type attacker

Feraligatr's Advantages:
(Much) Higher Speed: This enables the alligator to not have to rely on Aqua Jet all the time, just some of the time
Swords Dance and Dragon Dance: Feraligatr can either boost its Speed and Attack to combat faster foes without relying on Aqua Jet, or it can simply double its Attack in one turn and smash without relying on Choice items
Sheer Force: Technically Sheer Force isn't released yet, but when it comes out, Feraligatr can abuse Sheer-Force boosted Waterfalls, Crunches, and Ice Punches without Life Orb recoil, which is awesome
Torrent, or the lack of reliance on its ability: While Torrent is generally useless until Feraligatr is about to die, the fact that Gatr doesn't care about losing its ability as much as Azumarill might (which is nice, considering Cofagrigus exists). Also, Torrent boosted STAB hurts badly, especially at +2.s

Feraligatr's Disadvantages:
No Huge Power: This is why most people don't really consider using Gatr in UU, or most tiers outside of RU. While his Attack is higher when boosted, Azumarill has higher Attack just by clicking Huge Power in the teambuilder.
Lower Base HP: Azumarill possesses the ability to set up 404 HP Substitutes with max HP, and from there fire off a Huge Power Focus Punch which hits with Huge Power indeed. This is nice for setting up on Registeel's Braille face.

I probably missed a few more reasons on Azumarill's part...
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
General Normal Type Comparison
Porygon 2 VS Snorlax
Porygon2's Advantages

art by Oiawesome , Pokemon by Game Freak

Porygon2's Advantages
  • Recover/ Reliable Recovery- Do I even have to explain this? well ok then: Recover not only lets porygon2 stay around for a lot more in the game, it lets it not worry about lack of leftovers too. Recover instantly recovers 50% of yours health but still leaves you with status, at a cost for not healing 100% and removing non sleep statuses which rest does. However porygon 2 does NOT have to run sleep talk to have semi-reliable recovery which instantly clears up an entire slot for it to use a move from it's arsenal.
  • Trace- Trace is a godsend in this metagame where abilities are nearly everything for instance: See a mienshao that's most likely going to u-turn? FREE REGENRATOR WHOOO HOO! Need something to take a sleep powder from roserade? Trace that Natural cure and you'll be fine ;). See an incoming arcanine or hitmontop? Trace that intimidate shit. Want to wall that freakin' chandalere? Trace the flash fire and it'll be fine. (Flame Body only makes P2 more annoying too) See a pressure mon that you want to out stall like offensive LO zapdos? Show them REAL pressure. Get ambipom's technician? uh well, you'll be fine, just para the damn thing. The point is that Trace is useful , K? K.
  • Better physical bulk- Yep, I brought it up. The simple fact is that standered defensive Porygon2 takes physical hits better than standered Defensive Snorlax (And I'm talking about MIXED wall pory2 not even physically defensive pory2) want proof?: Standerd Herracross VS standered defensive Snorlax 252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 84.9 - 100.6%. You see that damage? it most of the time with rocks up will OHKO and snorlax can just body slam and then die to a second one. Now here's Sandered Mixed Wall Pory2 VS that: 252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 56.68 - 67.37%. Yep only 68% max, which pory2 can then proceed to thunder wave and then recover 'till CC drops make it into tri attack or w/e attacking move range.
Porygon 2's Disadvantages
  • Lower Special defense on the mixed wall set
  • Can''t Use leftovers
  • No set up moves like CurseLax has
  • Lack of Thick Fat to take some hits like Snorlax has
That's the comparison I made, feel free to give feedback on this, even if you thought it was terrible ^_^.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Escavalier as a Choice Banded Bug-type vs. Heracross

vs.


Escavalier's Advantages:

Higher Attack: While the power difference isn't extremely significant, Escavalier does in fact hit harder than Heracross, so its Megahorn is more brutal than Heracross's, so it can potentially be more deadly, especially with the CB intact.

Better Defensive typing: Escavalier has some excellent resistances to make use of, such as to Psychic, Ghost, Normal, and most importantly to Dragon (so it can come in on Flygon and Kingdra locking themselves into Outrage). It also resists hail too, so it has more switch-in opportunities as well as the ability to take many hits to fire multiple Megahorns.

Iron Head: While Steel STAB is not superb, a strong Iron Head means Escavalier can handle Cofagrigus, Dusclops, and Mismagius on the switch-in to just hit them plain hard, whereas Heracross is relatively helpless against bulky Ghost-types in general

Escavalier's Disadvantages:

Lack of coverage: While Escavalier is no doubt an awesome Pokemon, it suffers from lacking coverage, which means it can be helpless against certain Steel-types and to an extent Chandelure as well, whereas Heracross gets STAB Close Combat to work with as well and a Stone Edge to use.

Guts: Heracross gets the luxury of this, which means if any status cripples it, it becomes even more powerful, and it helps if it gets burned by Sableye, Dusclops, or Cofagrigus. Escavalier doesn't get this power boost, and gets cripples really insanely by burns.

Speed: Escavalier is insanely slow, even slower than the notorious slowpokes that are Slowbro and Snorlax. This means that it cannot outspeed anything without Trick Room support, and has to almost always take damage before dealing damage due to being outsped by almost everything in the metagame. Heracross has some nice Speed to outpace a lot of stuff, and can deal damage sometimes before taking, although this isn't a massive disadvantage against the faster, highly offensive teams.
 
First time to try. Let's see an underrated monster vs. a popular one:

] vs.

Aggron as a Choice Bander vs. Rhyperior

Aggron's Advantages:
* Slightly higher speed for out-speeding some walls/tanks. Also usable for a rock polish set to outspeed base 70-80s holding a Choice Scarf
*Head Smash is slightly stronger than Rhyperior's moves:
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 397-468 (79.87 - 94.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 315-372 (63.38 - 74.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
*Steel typing grants key resistance to common Bug, Ghost, Rock and Ice moves. Also prevents Toxic Status.
*70/180/60 defenses allows it to tank a physical hit and retaliate with a respectable Base 110 attack.
*Has an option to use Sturdy (not really, use Rock Head with Head Smash for no recoil)
*Most of the time, opponents attempt to minimize the damage from Head Smash, so some can use that as an advantage for teammates to switch in.
*It's looks way cooler than Rhyperior. Look at it!

Disadvantages:
*The typing gives it a terrible 4x weakness to the very common Ground and Fighting moves and a 2x weakness to Water.
*Rather low Hp and disappointing Sp.Def. makes it vulnerable to most special attacks (even some resisted ones Ex. Chandelure's Shadow Ball). Also, without investment in Hp, some Physical attacks can potentially 2HKO.
*Can't really tank against common Physical fire types unlike Rhyperior. Also, Rhyperior's Ground typing allows it to check common Electric threats.
*Head Smash is clearly the only powerful move; Rock resistors can intercept it. Steel STAB isn't helpful and it's resisted by bulky Waters.With Rhyperior's Ground STAB and Base 140 Attack, it can damage threats more than Aggron's other moves does. So Aggron needs a Choice Band to do respectable damage.
*Rhyperior's bulk is superior; even it can take nearly the same damage as Aggron's physical bulk does. Solid Rock is also great defensively to sponge super effective moves.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Okay, here's one.

Scolipede as a Swords Dancing Bug-type vs. Heracross

vs.


Scolipede's Advantages

Better Speed: While Heracross's Speed is pretty decent, it's still outsped by a lot of the faster threats in the metagame. Scolipede has an excellent Speed tier, which allows it to outpace Pokemon such as Roserade, Shaymin, Mienshao, Froslass, Virizion, Cobalion, and a bunch of others, of which Heracross misses out on.

Aqua Tail / Earthquake: What this means is that Scolipede can deal greater damage to Gligar more quickly, and although Gligar sucks, this is a rather common sight, so this is something. Also means it has a more reliable way to damage Chandelure, while it has a smoother time against Nidoqueen

Immune to Toxic: While Heracross benefits from being poisoned because of the power boost, it gets worn down rather quickly. Scolipede provides a pretty safe bet to come in on Toxic as well though. I guess this isn't that big of an advantage, but whatever.

Scolipede's Disadvantages

Lack of Guts: What this means is that aside from the fact that Scolipede can't get a power boost, it gets crippled really insanely by Will-O-Wisp from Sableye, Dusclops, etc. Heracross gets benefits from Guts and can use it to its own advantage.

Doesn't hit as hard: While Scolipede certainly isn't a weakling, it's 90 Attack is not up to par in comparison to Heracross's mighty powerful 125 Attack stat. This means Scolipede may not deliver as hard of blows as Heracross, especially against especially bulky opponents such as Cofagrigus.

Stealth Rock weakness: Scolipede takes more damage from Stealth Rock than Heracross, which means that Scolipede can't switch in as often as Heracross.
 

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