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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project The Top 10 Titans of the Gen 7 Ubers Metagame
- Thread starter Ropalme1914
- Start date
Congratulations to our eigth winner!
Ultra Necrozma wins this rounds pretty easily with 9 votes, while Lunala sits as the only other Pokémon to receive a vote with just 1.
These are our nominees for #9 (you can still click on them and see their nominations and why you should vote for that Pokémon):
Remember, those ranking are for the most influentional Pokémon on the meta, not the best, so, if you think that Primal Kyogre changes the Teambuilding more than Zygarde, but Zygarde is a better Pokémon, then you should vote for Kyogre. This rank also keeps in mind all of gen 7, not just USUM. So, while this doesn't make Pokémon the Necrozma formes and Marshadow unable to compete with the others, do keep in mind that they weren't here from the start.
To vote, you simply needs to say the name of the Pokémon you're voting for; you don't need to provide a motive, but that would be appreciated. Discussion during the voting stages also is encouraged.
All three can go on any order now imo, but I'm going with Zygarde here. This might seem kinda polemic due to Primal Kyogre almost forcing the use of Ferrothorn or Primal Groudon on any team (and I decided to not vote for it last minute) or everything that Lunala changed in general, but Kyogre's checks were already good before amd probably didn't change their set much, while Zygarde, at the start of generation, changed how many offensive Pokémon worked. To start, Ice coverage became way more common: Marshadow mainly brings it for Zygarde, Primal Groudon's special sets gained way more force, as SD could be dealt with Coil Zygarde, it was the first to cause a massive shift on Ekiller's moveset by making it use Ice Beam over its other coverage and utility moves, and even Lunala sometimes opted for Ice Beam over Moonblast partly because of Zygarde. Later on, Zygarde started using a offensive Dragon Dance set with Dragon Tail, which made the standard answer for setup sweepers, phazing, useless against it, forcing once again teams to adapt it, while Groundium Z took take of Fairy-types like Xerneas, which got OHKOed by +1 Tectonic Rage. By this time, Zygarde was the star of Tspikes, which became a staple of the tier and even was featured on Sample teams. Once even the defensive Pokémon were always using Ice Beam for it, Zygarde started to pair with Gothitelle, and even was a huge point for its suspect test, as Gothitelle could trap almost all of support Arceus formes, which were often the only solid answer to Zygarde on many teams. Finally, Zygarde now also uses Glare, which makes it able to cheese almost any battle, and its answers became even more specific, as the use of Dragonium made other Dragon-types like Giratina-Origin and Mega Salamence even worse while dealing more damage to Arceus, and it remains the main Dragon Dance user of the tier.
Ultra Necrozma wins this rounds pretty easily with 9 votes, while Lunala sits as the only other Pokémon to receive a vote with just 1.
These are our nominees for #9 (you can still click on them and see their nominations and why you should vote for that Pokémon):
Remember, those ranking are for the most influentional Pokémon on the meta, not the best, so, if you think that Primal Kyogre changes the Teambuilding more than Zygarde, but Zygarde is a better Pokémon, then you should vote for Kyogre. This rank also keeps in mind all of gen 7, not just USUM. So, while this doesn't make Pokémon the Necrozma formes and Marshadow unable to compete with the others, do keep in mind that they weren't here from the start.
To vote, you simply needs to say the name of the Pokémon you're voting for; you don't need to provide a motive, but that would be appreciated. Discussion during the voting stages also is encouraged.
All three can go on any order now imo, but I'm going with Zygarde here. This might seem kinda polemic due to Primal Kyogre almost forcing the use of Ferrothorn or Primal Groudon on any team (and I decided to not vote for it last minute) or everything that Lunala changed in general, but Kyogre's checks were already good before amd probably didn't change their set much, while Zygarde, at the start of generation, changed how many offensive Pokémon worked. To start, Ice coverage became way more common: Marshadow mainly brings it for Zygarde, Primal Groudon's special sets gained way more force, as SD could be dealt with Coil Zygarde, it was the first to cause a massive shift on Ekiller's moveset by making it use Ice Beam over its other coverage and utility moves, and even Lunala sometimes opted for Ice Beam over Moonblast partly because of Zygarde. Later on, Zygarde started using a offensive Dragon Dance set with Dragon Tail, which made the standard answer for setup sweepers, phazing, useless against it, forcing once again teams to adapt it, while Groundium Z took take of Fairy-types like Xerneas, which got OHKOed by +1 Tectonic Rage. By this time, Zygarde was the star of Tspikes, which became a staple of the tier and even was featured on Sample teams. Once even the defensive Pokémon were always using Ice Beam for it, Zygarde started to pair with Gothitelle, and even was a huge point for its suspect test, as Gothitelle could trap almost all of support Arceus formes, which were often the only solid answer to Zygarde on many teams. Finally, Zygarde now also uses Glare, which makes it able to cheese almost any battle, and its answers became even more specific, as the use of Dragonium made other Dragon-types like Giratina-Origin and Mega Salamence even worse while dealing more damage to Arceus, and it remains the main Dragon Dance user of the tier.
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Katy
Banned deucer.
its either Lunala (was one of the best Scarfers in the tier) or Primal Kyogre - I think depending on how the influence on the metagame is and that Mega Venusaur is even a good Primal Kyogre answer and that it got promited to Ubers VR due to primal Kyogres existence, I think it's Primal Kyogre. So I'll
vote for Primal Kyogre here.
vote for Primal Kyogre here.
Zygarde.
Didn't start off the gen too well but that was partially because its full potential was yet to be discovered. Enter Dragon Dance, a potentially devastating set that managed to get setup opportunities everywhere and was probably the best mon to snowball from in USM imo. Its influence on builds forced Supportceus everywhere and even then given enough support Zygarde could just cheese it. It's definitely a big enough threat to put on this list.
I'm not letting Lunala slip by btw definitely voting for that next
Didn't start off the gen too well but that was partially because its full potential was yet to be discovered. Enter Dragon Dance, a potentially devastating set that managed to get setup opportunities everywhere and was probably the best mon to snowball from in USM imo. Its influence on builds forced Supportceus everywhere and even then given enough support Zygarde could just cheese it. It's definitely a big enough threat to put on this list.
I'm not letting Lunala slip by btw definitely voting for that next
Primal-Kyogre
Zygarde-C for 10th, please.
Zygarde-C for 10th, please.
Zygarde
Zygarde
Symphonic Sorcerer
Banned deucer.
Primal Kyogre for #9 and Lunala for #10. While Zygarde is objetively better than the aforementioned threats, Ogre and Luna warped team structures so that all successful Balance teams have to have some method of dealing with them. Zygarde didn't necessarily warp team structure so much, it just changed certain offense sets seen on some common threats. Definitely HM worthy though.
Zygarde
Congratulations to our ninth winner...s!
The first and only tie of the competition, Zygarde and Primal Kyogre both ended up with 7 votes each! I considered some ways to break tie (I saw other posts of this same project making the tiebreak be decided by the host, and I also considered taking into account how many votes each received on previous round, but both had 2 lol), but in the end, I thought it would more fair to let them share the spot. And what also comes with that...
The final Pokémon of the top 10!
Fun fact: Lunala actually also received 2 votes before this round like the others, and even got its first vote before them, and considering on the comments here, it was the favorite for the final round regardless of who went to dispute with it.
And with that, here's our final ranking:
The first and only tie of the competition, Zygarde and Primal Kyogre both ended up with 7 votes each! I considered some ways to break tie (I saw other posts of this same project making the tiebreak be decided by the host, and I also considered taking into account how many votes each received on previous round, but both had 2 lol), but in the end, I thought it would more fair to let them share the spot. And what also comes with that...
The final Pokémon of the top 10!
Fun fact: Lunala actually also received 2 votes before this round like the others, and even got its first vote before them, and considering on the comments here, it was the favorite for the final round regardless of who went to dispute with it.
And with that, here's our final ranking:
1. 
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7.
8.
9.
10.
Feel free to post your own ranking now, share your thoughts on the final ranking, comment on which Pokémon should have made it, etc.2.
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Katy
Banned deucer.
Hello,
since the list is now done I would like to give my own finals thoughts on the entire Gen7 Ubers-Era, with that being said:
Pokémon which sadly weren't included:
should be Honorable mentions nontheless.
My own ranking:
I agree with most of it, but I should swap Xerneas around with Marshadow in the above list. Reasoning: With Magearna arriving and other answers like Ferrothorn (non Focus Blast variants) and Celesteela (non-Thunder variants) but Marshadow chaning the entire Set of E-Killer (Arceus-Normal) I would of swap 'em around in the above list.
I would also swap around Lunala and Zygarde-Complete as Lunala was restricting enough at Teambuilding-Stage already and it's Scarf-Set was pretty dominant through the SM era and with Shadow Shield it's one of the best Calm Mind-Lategame-Cleaners.
since the list is now done I would like to give my own finals thoughts on the entire Gen7 Ubers-Era, with that being said:
Pokémon which sadly weren't included:
- Mega Salamence
- Arceus-Water
- Arceus-Fairy
- perhaps Arceus-Normal (before Marshadow-Meta)
- Arceus-Dark
- Ho-Oh
should be Honorable mentions nontheless.
My own ranking:
I agree with most of it, but I should swap Xerneas around with Marshadow in the above list. Reasoning: With Magearna arriving and other answers like Ferrothorn (non Focus Blast variants) and Celesteela (non-Thunder variants) but Marshadow chaning the entire Set of E-Killer (Arceus-Normal) I would of swap 'em around in the above list.
I would also swap around Lunala and Zygarde-Complete as Lunala was restricting enough at Teambuilding-Stage already and it's Scarf-Set was pretty dominant through the SM era and with Shadow Shield it's one of the best Calm Mind-Lategame-Cleaners.
Symphonic Sorcerer
Banned deucer.
Really clean list so to speak, I find it really interesting how the Top 4 Titans of Gen 7 Ubers perfectly matched the exact positions of their USM Ubers Viability Rankings. It just goes to show how dominant Primal Groudon, Dusk Mane Necrozma, Yveltal, and Mega Gengar have been.
I think these pokemon should've made it on the list.
For my rankings, I would swap Xerneas with Mega Gengar. Xerneas is too threatening with its Choice Scarf and Geomancy sets to be placed under Mega Gengar. It also hurts to see Ultra Necrozma in 7th place, also a very threatening sweeper. All that aside, very unexpected results. Good work.
For my rankings, I would swap Xerneas with Mega Gengar. Xerneas is too threatening with its Choice Scarf and Geomancy sets to be placed under Mega Gengar. It also hurts to see Ultra Necrozma in 7th place, also a very threatening sweeper. All that aside, very unexpected results. Good work.
Personally, I would have gone with this:
2 - Necrozma-DM, basically controlled USM alongside Primal Groudon for very similar reasons - its role compression was amazing, its offensive sets had little counters, and it singlehandedly allowed Primal Groudon to be fully unleashed with more offensive sets like Eruption SD and Mixed RP a lot more often.
3 - Yveltal, also had major influence in USM but this time it also has major influence in SM as being one of the major reasons why mons like Lunala didn't shine as brightly in the later parts of SM. Again, very much similar reasons to the rest of these other than it couldn't really sweep which is why I didn't put this in Duskmane's slot despite its continued consistency all throughout the generation.
4 - Marshadow. This mon's influence on SM was severely undermined in the rankings. Quite possibly the biggest reason SM was a fairly dreary balance tier was because of this mon - it absolutely required multiple checks, of which most teams could not afford, and its incredible synergy with Mega Gengar basically took storm to a lot of builds at the time, especially those including Lunala and Mega Lucario. Xerneas had a grip tight as hell on SM but in USM it wasn't really comparable to how Marshadow changed builds throughout the generation.#
5 - Xerneas, in its sheer influence alone on SM, otherwise this mon would have dropped to around #9 alongside Zygarde-C and Primal Kyogre. Xern has very few checks and the major constriction it had in SM was a big reason as to why some players outright villified the metagame and tours such as No Geomancy were created. It was also possibly one of the bigger reasons as to why Marshadow didn't completely dominate the offensive metagame as it was an excellent offensive check to it through Choice Scarf and a brilliant reason as to why it has continued to stay viable to this day.
6 - Gengar-Mega, even though it seems as if it should be higher I personally put this mon lower as its overall influence on builds wasn't as big as Xerneas or Marshadow dragging it down throughout SM. Offensive teams tend to manage to avoid this mon due to the mega turn but outside of that this thing has had a brilliant dominance on the USM metagame and has chopped and changed balance builds consistently. It only lands in this spot just because Marshadow and Xerneas were that constricting.
7 - Arceus-Ground. I had forgotten about this thing's SM dominance and the power of support variants alongside its SD sets - it was a big reason as to why this became S for a while and even now it's still making sure that teams double down on Ground resistances because of how dominant Primal Groudon is. Sadly SD sets are not as powerful this gen but Calm Mind has been sure to make non Ho-oh builds have difficulty staying alive for long.
8 - Necrozma-Ultra - even though it was largely dominant for a good while in USM it definitely hasn't had the SM history to be as strongly influential as Arceus-Ground, and a lot of the checks to it were also shared by Psychic types previously seen in the metagame. But it deserves this spot strongly for it being considered almost banworthy at a point in time.
9 - Zygarde-C: See above nomination for #9 titan.
10 - Lunala - This mon truely formed the early SM and mid USM metas as one of the strongest and most painful wallbreakers to try and switch into, almost mandating Yveltal on teams as a result of its sheer power. Sadly its dip in the SM meta really did make this mon not as dominant as the first half of this list and the move towards other options such as Pursuit Marsh have crippled it, but for making these influences on teambuilding as much of a worry as they are this is above Primal Kyogre to me.
11 - Primal Kyogre - this mon mainly took off from defensive NDM and the major flaws it gave to team structures but aside from that its flaws are pretty evident in its major lack of offensive matchup. But for how much it has continued to change balance it deserves this spot and even now it can get a few shots at breaking down some of the lighter teams.
12 - Mega Salamence. As far as this mon has gone down since its dominance in ORAS, it has still made sure that along with Zygarde-C support Arceus stays dominant. Not really too much to say about it though, it keeps more of a low down in building as it is mainly lumped with Zygarde-C's checks.
13 - Arceus-Water: This is more about how it tended to draw out games in SM rather than its USM performance as USM Waterceus is quite lackluster with the lack of Ho-oh builds but it made sure to utilize the wide range of mons it checked well, and the more defensive Primal Groudon teams suffer from that.
14 - Arceus-Fairy: This has been largely eliminated by Mega Gengar but its absolute incredible compression outside of that makes it a wonder for a lot of teams in checking Yveltal and Marshadow, two major titans that can cause problems for a lot of teams. Recently it also joined the CM arc club and has become a significantly better punish to Mega Gengar and its innate resistances otherwise, continuing to cement more defensive variants on teams.
15 - Magearna. You may be a bit confused as to why you'd see an OU mon so high but this mon dragged out SM matches because of how well it checked Xerneas and Yveltal. It was a major boon to teams which absolutely needed checks to them because the selection was so thin. Then, USM rolled around and CM arcs gained popularity. For the influence this mon has on Ultra teams I put this in 15.
16 - Ho-oh - a big beater for modern day Arceus-Ground teams but this mon seriously struggled in the defensive Zygarde-C metagame of early SM and whilst it was prominent in later SM it continued to drop in USM as its lack of applicability to builds without heavy support somewhat made it irrelevant to some build types. It doesn't like the offensive metagame for sure, and it's basically on this list for its abuse of Arceus-Ground and Ferrothorn builds more than anything else.
17 - Arceus-Dark, CM has been quite significant for the SM days but this mon hadn't really come into its own until the modern day support variant was discovered, significantly increasing the viability of team builds against STAG and giving a global check to both Yveltal, Lunala and Zygarde-C really put a wrench in those sorts of teams.
18 - Arceus - Normal variants have been big all about but they kinda died off once Marshadow dropped and haven't really been massively prominent since. They've had a resurgence in USM but still have flaws and often times teams can beat it without changing up their build due to how well the top 4 check it. Strong mon that can give teams some trouble in the endgame but it's really no big influence at all other than its initial SM appearance.
19 - Ferrothorn. I think that whilst it's sorta dying down in the current metagame, it's always been hiding there and scaring out Primal Kyogre builds to the current day. As being the best Spiker, it has also seen relevance in enhancing Zygarde-Complete and its dominance over bulky offense. For that, it hits this 19th spot, but that doesn't mean it isn't heavily flawed right now.
20 - Mewtwo-Mega-Y: Pretty much follows all of these low submissions in that they put a wrench in builds for a short period of time abusing certain holes, but never got any further. This is the culmination of an offensive mon like that, only really making its case for the last few months of USM because of its difficult to switch into coverage, and the abuse of multiple Ultra builds which lack the sorts of hard resists that were somewhat common in SM. For that, it closes off this list.
Ground
Water
Fairy
Dark
2 - Necrozma-DM, basically controlled USM alongside Primal Groudon for very similar reasons - its role compression was amazing, its offensive sets had little counters, and it singlehandedly allowed Primal Groudon to be fully unleashed with more offensive sets like Eruption SD and Mixed RP a lot more often.
3 - Yveltal, also had major influence in USM but this time it also has major influence in SM as being one of the major reasons why mons like Lunala didn't shine as brightly in the later parts of SM. Again, very much similar reasons to the rest of these other than it couldn't really sweep which is why I didn't put this in Duskmane's slot despite its continued consistency all throughout the generation.
4 - Marshadow. This mon's influence on SM was severely undermined in the rankings. Quite possibly the biggest reason SM was a fairly dreary balance tier was because of this mon - it absolutely required multiple checks, of which most teams could not afford, and its incredible synergy with Mega Gengar basically took storm to a lot of builds at the time, especially those including Lunala and Mega Lucario. Xerneas had a grip tight as hell on SM but in USM it wasn't really comparable to how Marshadow changed builds throughout the generation.#
5 - Xerneas, in its sheer influence alone on SM, otherwise this mon would have dropped to around #9 alongside Zygarde-C and Primal Kyogre. Xern has very few checks and the major constriction it had in SM was a big reason as to why some players outright villified the metagame and tours such as No Geomancy were created. It was also possibly one of the bigger reasons as to why Marshadow didn't completely dominate the offensive metagame as it was an excellent offensive check to it through Choice Scarf and a brilliant reason as to why it has continued to stay viable to this day.
6 - Gengar-Mega, even though it seems as if it should be higher I personally put this mon lower as its overall influence on builds wasn't as big as Xerneas or Marshadow dragging it down throughout SM. Offensive teams tend to manage to avoid this mon due to the mega turn but outside of that this thing has had a brilliant dominance on the USM metagame and has chopped and changed balance builds consistently. It only lands in this spot just because Marshadow and Xerneas were that constricting.
7 - Arceus-Ground. I had forgotten about this thing's SM dominance and the power of support variants alongside its SD sets - it was a big reason as to why this became S for a while and even now it's still making sure that teams double down on Ground resistances because of how dominant Primal Groudon is. Sadly SD sets are not as powerful this gen but Calm Mind has been sure to make non Ho-oh builds have difficulty staying alive for long.
8 - Necrozma-Ultra - even though it was largely dominant for a good while in USM it definitely hasn't had the SM history to be as strongly influential as Arceus-Ground, and a lot of the checks to it were also shared by Psychic types previously seen in the metagame. But it deserves this spot strongly for it being considered almost banworthy at a point in time.
9 - Zygarde-C: See above nomination for #9 titan.
10 - Lunala - This mon truely formed the early SM and mid USM metas as one of the strongest and most painful wallbreakers to try and switch into, almost mandating Yveltal on teams as a result of its sheer power. Sadly its dip in the SM meta really did make this mon not as dominant as the first half of this list and the move towards other options such as Pursuit Marsh have crippled it, but for making these influences on teambuilding as much of a worry as they are this is above Primal Kyogre to me.
11 - Primal Kyogre - this mon mainly took off from defensive NDM and the major flaws it gave to team structures but aside from that its flaws are pretty evident in its major lack of offensive matchup. But for how much it has continued to change balance it deserves this spot and even now it can get a few shots at breaking down some of the lighter teams.
12 - Mega Salamence. As far as this mon has gone down since its dominance in ORAS, it has still made sure that along with Zygarde-C support Arceus stays dominant. Not really too much to say about it though, it keeps more of a low down in building as it is mainly lumped with Zygarde-C's checks.
13 - Arceus-Water: This is more about how it tended to draw out games in SM rather than its USM performance as USM Waterceus is quite lackluster with the lack of Ho-oh builds but it made sure to utilize the wide range of mons it checked well, and the more defensive Primal Groudon teams suffer from that.
14 - Arceus-Fairy: This has been largely eliminated by Mega Gengar but its absolute incredible compression outside of that makes it a wonder for a lot of teams in checking Yveltal and Marshadow, two major titans that can cause problems for a lot of teams. Recently it also joined the CM arc club and has become a significantly better punish to Mega Gengar and its innate resistances otherwise, continuing to cement more defensive variants on teams.
15 - Magearna. You may be a bit confused as to why you'd see an OU mon so high but this mon dragged out SM matches because of how well it checked Xerneas and Yveltal. It was a major boon to teams which absolutely needed checks to them because the selection was so thin. Then, USM rolled around and CM arcs gained popularity. For the influence this mon has on Ultra teams I put this in 15.
16 - Ho-oh - a big beater for modern day Arceus-Ground teams but this mon seriously struggled in the defensive Zygarde-C metagame of early SM and whilst it was prominent in later SM it continued to drop in USM as its lack of applicability to builds without heavy support somewhat made it irrelevant to some build types. It doesn't like the offensive metagame for sure, and it's basically on this list for its abuse of Arceus-Ground and Ferrothorn builds more than anything else.
17 - Arceus-Dark, CM has been quite significant for the SM days but this mon hadn't really come into its own until the modern day support variant was discovered, significantly increasing the viability of team builds against STAG and giving a global check to both Yveltal, Lunala and Zygarde-C really put a wrench in those sorts of teams.
18 - Arceus - Normal variants have been big all about but they kinda died off once Marshadow dropped and haven't really been massively prominent since. They've had a resurgence in USM but still have flaws and often times teams can beat it without changing up their build due to how well the top 4 check it. Strong mon that can give teams some trouble in the endgame but it's really no big influence at all other than its initial SM appearance.
19 - Ferrothorn. I think that whilst it's sorta dying down in the current metagame, it's always been hiding there and scaring out Primal Kyogre builds to the current day. As being the best Spiker, it has also seen relevance in enhancing Zygarde-Complete and its dominance over bulky offense. For that, it hits this 19th spot, but that doesn't mean it isn't heavily flawed right now.
20 - Mewtwo-Mega-Y: Pretty much follows all of these low submissions in that they put a wrench in builds for a short period of time abusing certain holes, but never got any further. This is the culmination of an offensive mon like that, only really making its case for the last few months of USM because of its difficult to switch into coverage, and the abuse of multiple Ultra builds which lack the sorts of hard resists that were somewhat common in SM. For that, it closes off this list.