The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen NU Metagame [General Discussion]

[Lasagne]

Approved by Raseri and Zebraiken (ages ago) - Stolen from the UU and RU ones

Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen NU​

As 6th gen swiftly approaches, I think it’s time that we take a look back on the entire 5th gen NU Metagame. With the transition from 4th gen to 5th gen, RU was created and we acquired such powerhouses as Samurott, Sawk, new abilities that pushed pokemon over the top or into contention, Musharna, Slowking, Dugtrio and more. With the arrival of Black and White 2, many past threats became all the more potent thanks to more readily available tutor attacks and hidden abilities, especially Golurk. These Pokemon have all had a great impact over the course of 5th gen NU. But, it is now time to decide, who are the Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen NU?

This is where you guys come in. This thread will work similarly to the NU Viability Ranking Thread, where throughout the week, you guys will nominate Pokemon to be voted on to be placed as candidates for the Top 10 Titans of 5th Gen NU. The voting for the actual top 10 list will be done in September (one month away from 6th gen) by you all, so that by the time 6th gen does roll around, we have an accurate depiction of which Pokemon were the ones that had a very significant impact on the NU Metagame. Every shift, you will look through the candidates mentioned, and then you will vote on the one that has the most compelling argument on why it should be in the Top 10. The nominating will last until the end of August, which after that, the voting process will being, with a top ten list determined two weeks later.

Now, what do I want in a post? Well, what I would like to see in a post nominating a Pokemon is:

• 
  
  
  • What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen NU Metagame?
  • What were its main roles when it was/is used?
  • What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)
  • How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)

These are the kinds of posts that show that you aren’t just saying, “Pokemon X should be in the top 10 because it looks cool.” Those kinds of posts should not even be thought about being made.

Now, for the big question, what kinds of Pokemon can we nominate? Well, really, you can nominate any that were in NU but were banned, or you can suggest any Pokemon that’s in NU right now. I’m hoping that by the time that September rolls around, we’ll have a significant list to vote for the top 10.

Now, the voting for the top 10 will NOT be a standard 1. Best Pokemon 2. Second best, etc. The Top 10 will be the ones that have had the most significant impact on their time used in the Metagame. This means even in Black and White 1.

Here's a list of top 10 nominees:

~~ Jynx ~~~~ Scolipede ~~~~ Sawk ~~ Amoonguss ~~~ Emboar ~~~ Absol ~~~ Magmortar ~ Samurott ~~ Cinccino ~~~ Musharna ~~ Golurk ~

~ Ludicolo ~~~ Mesprit ~~~ Snover ~~ Zangoose ~


Now, what I want you guys to do is to vote for each individual spot by choosing one of these 10 pokemon.

I feel that this topic would be a great idea for us at the moment with 6th gen coming towards us fast and with 5th gen finally winding down on being almost done with the changes in it. So, now it is up to you all. Who do you think impacted the NU metagame the most? Who do you believe is a Titan?

Top 10 so far:

1) Jynx


2) Musharna

3) Magmortar


4) Sawk


5) Scolipede


6) Samurott


7) Emboar


8) Absol


9) Snover

10) Ludicolo

 

[Lasagne]

The form for your nominations (try and make all sections a decent sized paragraph):

Nominating [Pokemon]

Sprite of Pokemon here please. Use this to find the sprite: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72762463/smogonsprites.html

What effect did [Pokemon] have on the metagame?

Explain how the Pokemon effected the metagame as whole, and how the metagame adapted around it. A brief description of which Pokemon it countered and which Pokemon it did well against would be good here as well.

In what main roles was [Pokemon] used?

Go into detail about the ways the Pokemon was used primarily, and how well it did in these roles, naming key examples of Pokemon it defeated with ease.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Talk about the Pokemons greatest strengths and how well it deals with most of the metagame. Detail the multiple ways in which it can be abused (if applicable), and talk about its few checks/counters.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NU?

Talk about the best checks/counters to the Pokemon, and how the metagame shaped around it to accommodate due to its centralization.


Include here a brief overview of all your points, and why it should be a nominee for Top 10 NU Titans.

 

[Lasagne]

a list

Please only nominate one Pokemon at the time, and we are not posting our own list straight away. We have to get nominees, then we will vote for the order they go in. Also please follow the form I posted in the second post when nominating a Pokemon. One at a time, remember.

 

[ryan]

Nominating Jynx.

What effect did Jynx have on the metagame?

Way back in the earliest stages of NU, there were a few good checks to Jynx, such as Magmortar and Cryogonal, that have since left the NU tier. Even with more reliable checks running around, Jynx was always a massive nuisance. Jynx had a tendency to pigeon-hole teams into running specific checks and counters in order to beat it. Of course, back in this time, Metang and co. were much less appreciated because they didn't fit into the meta nearly as well as they do now, so running currently conventional checks to Jynx didn't work as well back then as what it does now. Jynx was also an enormous threat to offensive teams; once it got in, it was going to start causing troubles. It might have been difficult to get Jynx in, but offensive teams rarely carried a way of handling it outside of revenge killing it (which leads to the "you kill me, then I kill you" type of offensive metagame that Django described in the recent Jynx suspect thread). Jynx was then deemed broken and became
the only Pokemon to receive a ban solely from NU throughout the duration of the tier.

Since Jynx has been brought back into the tier, it has been deemed to be not broken. However, not broken does not mean not good, and Jynx is still one of the best Pokemon in NU. High Speed, high power, a good movepool, and a sleep-inducing move are all great reasons to use it now.

Jynx doesn't counter much in the traditional sense of the word, but Scarf sets completely shut down Shell Smash Carracosta. On top of that, Jynx is a good offensive check to rain teams. Without Jynx in the tier, a lot of teams would have to be more readily prepared for rain teams and Water-types in general. The metagame has adapted around Jynx in a very subtle manner. Some Pokemon have been running moves to make sure they don't let Jynx get a free switch. For example, many Seismitoad now run Earthquake, and many Tauros now run Pursuit—especially Scarf Tauros. Other Pokemon have also become more popular, including Metang, Klang, and Bastiodon, to help check Jynx from a more defensive standpoint.

Ultimately, the effect it used to have on the metagame was forcing defensive teams to carry specific checks and counters and forcing offensive teams to sacrifice something nearly every time it came in. The effect it currently has on the metagame is serving as an effective wallbreaker or revenge killer and keeping certain Pokemon and playstyles in check.

In what main roles was Jynx used?

As previously mentioned, Jynx was and still is used as an offensive wallbreaker, revenge killer, and/or late game cleaner. The cool thing is that all of its sets have been really effective, and some of the things that beat one set lose to another. For example, Life Orb Jynx is fairly easy to force out after it has taken something out, but Scarf Jynx can keep muscling through things until something can switch into a hit and take another. Similarly, Scarf Jynx is indeed easier to switch into, but it is also harder to revenge kill without a faster Choice Scarf user or priority, which makes it such a great late-game cleaner. Finally, SubNP Jynx is scary for balanced teams once it gets going. If you switch in something that can take a hit from Jynx while it puts it to sleep and expect to stay in long enough to wake up, it can set up a Substitute and start boosting. If you switch into something after foddering a Pokemon off to sleep, it can boost immediately and then strike against slower targets or Substitute and then strike against faster, frailer targets. This is the least effective of Jynx's most popular sets, but it can still be a hassle for certain teams.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

I've covered all of this already.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NU?

I've also covered all of this. :| However, I specifically handle Jynx in a few ways. I usually either have a good check or counter to it or try to get up hazards as soon as possible so as to prevent it from being able to switch in too often. Examples of some of the checks I've used for Jynx include Probopass, Metang, pivot Liepard, Klang, Lum Skuntank, and Substitute users (SubBU Braviary, SubCM Serperior, Sub Toxic Seismitoad, etc.) which can utilize their bulk and resistances to set up a Substitute against other Pokemon and ultimately keep Jynx from revenge killing them easily.

Sorry if my posting about Jynx in early NU doesn't account for certain things. I wasn't around back then, and most of this information comes from its early suspect thread and general knowledge about the metagame back then despite little experience playing it. On top of that, I'm sort of tired right now. :s If anyone has anything they want to add about Jynx back before it was originally banned, feel free to chime in.

 

[Punchshroom]

What effect did Golurk have on the metagame?

When Golurk dropped to NU, it had recently acquired its BW2 tutored moves and No Guard. This meant that while RU was stuck with a lackluster pokemon that can't make good use of its abilities, NU got the whole gleaming package of ghost robot goodness. People also realized its Normal, Fighting, and Electric immunities and resistances to Rock were very useful to have, so Golurk started to pop up on a lot of teams

In what main roles was Golurk used?

When Golurk trudged into NU, it was ready to rumble with Stealth Rock and its new pimpin' punches. Between Stealth Rock and No Guard Dynamicpunch, Golurk was both one of the most used leads and anti-leads in NU, as it had favorable matchups against most leads. Golurk could also use Iron Fist boosted elemental punches to put the hurt on a huge variety of pokemon, mainly Ice Punch for the Grass-types it had trouble damaging before, as well as boosting its Shadow Punch to respectable levels of strength. Since it possessed such coverage, this Golurk often equipped a Choice Band to maximize its damage potential. There is also the uncommon Rock Polish set that it could pull off, although it is too slow to outspeed Scarfers and thus isn't as effective as the other sets.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

The advent of Sturdy leads is what gave Golurk the jump point in usage, as it possessed the moves to overcome them. It also had decent bulk, which allowed it to check Normal, Fighting and Electric-types remarkably well while hitting back hard. In fact that's pretty much what Golurk was about: taking a hit or two and dishing out good damage with its power and coverage, allowing Golurk to come out on top in most tradeoffs. Its power and utility is what gave it the top spot more than once now, and the newcomers Primeape and Scolipede only justified its use further, tanking their coverage moves and dealing back big damage. Golurk's style of 'taking a hit to hit back harder' has not waned, and still serves it well.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NU?

While its bulk is good enough to take many of its opponents coverage moves, it struggles against super effective STAB attacks, which is bad considering it has 5 weaknesses and especially low speed. Grass and Water attacks tend to be the best bets, the former because they tend to be able to survive Golurk's attacks and the latter because they tend to be stronger. Both can even capitalize on a possible No Guard with Sleep Powder and Hydro Pump with no risk involved. Even the premier physical walls, Alomomola and Tangela, have an 'excessive' advantage over Golurk. Ice-types are rarer and riskier, but otherwise can get the job done, Jynx especially who can Ice Beam for a OHKO or also use No Guard for guaranteed Lovely Kisses (and setup).

Ghost-types are obviously the riskiest alternatives since they themselves can be destroyed, but if Golurk is locked into an unfavorable move or is outsped they can also take it out. Misdreavus can also cripple No Guard Golurks with Will-o-Wisps to weaken Shadow Punch and chip it into KO range. While there are few Dark-type attacks that can outright OHKO Golurk, one of them stands out: Foul Play. In fact Golurk is likely the most susceptible pokemon to Foul Play ever (after Banette). Mandibuzz is one of the best switch-ins to Golurk, nothing the latter has can OHKO the vulture, while she outspeeds and either Roosts to heal and weaken the Choiced move, or straight up use Foul Play, which OHKOes any Golurk with maximum Attack.

 

[Lasagne]

I assume you're going to update that post with the required sections soon?

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Nominating Scolipede

no need to vote it's obviously on the list

What effect did [Pokemon] have on the metagame?

Scolipede is the most influential Pokemon in the current metagame in my opinion, even though it's only been here for a few months. Before Scolipede, the metagame was much slower, as there were many top defensive stall mons and not many extremely effective stallbreakers, especially with the rise of Emboar. Once Scolipede dropped, the metagame instantly transformed to a fast-paced, Spikes-stacking offensive based one. With its blazing Speed, it almost always guarantees two layers of Spikes and paved the way for offensive teams to pressure opponents every time they made a switch. Because of its blazing Speed and remarkable offensive stats, Pokemon like Musharna and Gardevoir, that once almost centralized the metagame, dropped in usage greatly. Pokemon that could outspeed, on the other hand, rose greatly in usage, such as Swellow, Choice Scarf Charizard, Serperior, and Choice Scarf Tauros. Kangaskhan's rise in power, though mainly due to Jynx, was in part due to Scolipede, I am sure. Because it was such an amazing Spikes stacker, Garbodor and Roselia, once the premier Spikers of the metagame, fell sharply in usage. Other offensive Bug-types such as Pinsir dropped sharply as well, since most people thought that Scolipede was better (i agree). At first, most people used Scolipede for offense but as the meta progressed, people began to realize that Scolipede could be used as a bulkymon too, meaning that Scolipede saw use on even more teams. In addition, Weezing and Misdreavus saw a rise in usage and they began to run less common moves as well: Weezing started running Fire Blast and Misdreavus started running Foul Play as well as Taunt. Meanwhile, Tangela, which cannot defeat Scolipede reliably, saw a drop in usage in favorthat physical walls that can (Weezing, Missy). It also popularized defensive Seismitoad as a teammate, which shares great type synergy with BulkyPede. Everytime I build a team, I find fitting in Scolipede was really easy and it often brings waaaay more benefits than harms to the team.

In what main roles was Scolipede used?

Firstly, it was a Spikes setter that can defeat common leads with ease thanks to Aqua Tail. With Spikes and enormous Speed, it could set up multiple layers of Spikes before dying, and with Swords Dance, it could also do major damage while setting up Spikes. Scolipede is also a decent sweeper with SubSalac, and is very scary if teams aren't prepared for it, or if it's late in the game. It defeats most other hazard setters with ease, with Aqua Tail beating Golem and Gigalith, Rock Slide taking out opposing Scolipede, Megahorn hitting hard in general, and Earthquake (though rare) hitting Garbodor, Metang and Regirock.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Basically Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Swords Dance, coverage moves, amazing STAB. Also, it became the focal point for Spikes stacking offense since it Spikes up so easily.

The reason for its success in my opinion is a) its Speed and b) its offensive moves. The combination of both allows it to Spike up usually two layers guaranteed with a Focus Sash, and I can probably count the common Pokemon that outspeed it on one hand. Meanwhile, the combination of Megahorn hitting non-resists, Mush and Tangela hard, Aqua Tail covering Golurk, Golem and Regirock, and Rock Slide beating Charizard and Jynx, makes it a tough Pokemon to switch into. It has few outright counters, with the most common one being Misdreavus which can Taunt it, Will-O-Wisp it, and wall it (and eventually kill it). Less common ones include Alomomola, Shelgon and Weezing, but they don't exactly appreciate Toxic Spikes (apart from Weezing of course!), and often get set up on. Garbodor and Regirock can usually tank hits and often KO back, but if Scolipede has already set up, it will deal a large chunk of damage before dying. It is easier to check though, but that means you need a rare free switch in. Scarf Pokemon like Tauros, Jynx and Charizard can OHKO it, while Kangaskhan can 2HKO it with the combo of Fake Out + move

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NU?

Misdreavus is probably the best counter since it can take hits and cripple it with Will-O-Wisp and make it easier to deal with, and it became an even greater defensive Pokemon for being able to counter both Sawk and Scolipede. Golem is one other hazard setter that can beat Scolipede with Rock Blast, but will probably take significant damage / still allow Spikes / not take it down if Rock Blast is a bitch and hits twice. As mentioned earlier, Choice Scarf Pokemon that are powerful are also decent checks to Scolipede. I find that the most useful way to check Scolipede is to switch in on Spikes / after a kill and force it out / kill it, since the Stealth Rock weakness sucks and all.

--------------------------------

 

[skylight]

this is tough because I wanna nom a few here but for now I'll go with this:

Nominating Musharna

What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen NU Metagame?
Musharna has

What were its main roles when it was/is used?
Musharna has mostly been a Calm Mind user, a defensive wall, or a pivot for the most part.

What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)
Musharna's typing is one of its best assets. Being Psychic-type it can resist attacks from powerful NU attackers such as Sawk and Gurdurr. Psychic is also a strong typing in the NU metagame offensively as there are very few stops to it (Mushy can opt for HP Ground for Skunk and Rock/Steels), and has Signal Beam for when it faced Absol. Its bulk is definitely one of its other awesome traits, because it means that pretty much nothing can outright OHKO it (other than one or two things which aren't too common). As a wall Mushy can take loads of physical hits pretty easily and has no issues recovering the damage with Moonlight.

How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)
Skuntank is probably the best counter throughout all of BW NU. It can switch into anything Mushy throws at it with ease pretty much, and then can Taunt it, Crunch it, Pursuit it, etc, all depending on what Musharna's moveset is. Other counters can include Rock/Steels such as Bastiodon and Probopass (if Mushy doesn't have HP Ground) which can use Toxic on Mushy, or Roar it out. Since it's hard to outright OHKO Mushy checks have been harder to find, but Scolipede and Absol can shut Musharna down if it's had prior damage. Strong special attackers such as Ludicolo and Charizard can also deal with it (in sun/rain or outside of it).

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I don't want to type in another large chunk so I won't put it in the form format, but I'd like to bring up those from the past metas, including Cinccino. Cinccino was a very centralizing force in the tier, with Skill Link, Tail Slap, Bullet Seed and Aqua Tail AND a very high speed leaving it hard to switch into, especially with few Steel-types in the tier. It was so centralizing that stuff like Rocky Helmet Amoonguss started to appear to leave it heavily damaged by residual damage. It also meant that Bastiodon and Probopass were also used to attempt to counter Cinccino, but then Cinccino can always run Wake Up Slap :S and I think it was also a big reason why some people use Jolly Scarf Emboar over Band since it can come in on two of its common moves and kill. The moment it left the tier, the metagame became much slower than before

Someone write this up for me pls

 

[Lasagne]

post all the mons scorp~~~~
own this thread up by being awesome n shit

 

[ryan]

added my form about Jynx. I was going to do Musharna, but Jynx is cuter.

Also, you can certainly nominate older threats for this. This project is about the influence of Pokemon in BW NU, not stage 9 or 10 or whatever we're on right now. Similarly, I'm not sure if Charizard is the best option for this. There are a lot of older threats that were (and in some cases still are) a lot more dominant during their time than Charizard is now. I think the fact that Charizard can often be beaten without having any specific check to it is kind of huge when you consider how influential a Pokemon is in a metagame. A lot of teams don't prepare for Charizard outside of using Stealth Rock and can still defeat it.

But don't let me stop you from nominating it if you think that this isn't enough to keep it from deserving a spot in the Top 10. You'll just have to be very convincing in your argument in order to sway me.

 

[Lasagne]

I think I did address this in the OP, but Treecko's right. You can use Pokemon from any stage you want, even Stage 0 if you think it was influential enough. Be creative~~

also I'll update this tomorrow cos phone sucks at editing posts

 

[Punchshroom]

added my form about Jynx. I was going to do Musharna, but Jynx is cuter.

Also, you can certainly nominate older threats for this. This project is about the influence of Pokemon in BW NU, not stage 9 or 10 or whatever we're on right now. Similarly, I'm not sure if Charizard is the best option for this. There are a lot of older threats that were (and in some cases still are) a lot more dominant during their time than Charizard is now. I think the fact that Charizard can often be beaten without having any specific check to it is kind of huge when you consider how influential a Pokemon is in a metagame. A lot of teams don't prepare for Charizard outside of using Stealth Rock and can still defeat it.

But don't let me stop you from nominating it if you think that this isn't enough to keep it from deserving a spot in the Top 10. You'll just have to be very convincing in your argument in order to sway me.

Well yeah, I can also slap Pursuit on a faster mon like Tauros, Sneasel or Scolipede and BAM dead Jynx. Obviously the reason we are nominating these threats for Top 10 is for what they can do when they aren't getting their asses kicked. You can't say that Charizard still isn't a serious threat if there is no SR in play in that same vein.

 

[watashi]

but the problem with charizard is that it's not even a top 10 threat in the current metagame and not even close in the previous ones. it wasn't around for the entirety of bw2 either and was never a metagame defining threat at any point, so it doesn't deserve to be in this thread.

 

[Annoyer]

Nominating Sawk

What kind of effect did this Pokemon have during its time in the 5th Gen NU Metagame?

This Pokemon basically causes every single team to have basically a counter to this or at least multiple checks. Sawk is also considered the main Fighting-type on NU. Fighting-type resistances are common as hell because of Sawk's influence because without one, every mon essentially gets 2HKOd or OHKOd (most offensive mons are OHKOd). It's been in NU forever and started to shine after the first start of NU as people realized its brute power. Without an answer to Sawk, you're basically asking yourself to get destroyed in NU.

What were its main roles when it was/is used?

Sawk is mainly used as a great wallbreaker and sweeper with its Choice Band set coming off a powerful ass 125 base Attack stat along with a really good 85 base Speed stat allowing it to outspeed the majority of an opponent's team and destroying common walls such as Quagsire. It can also perform other roles such as preventing SR sometimes with Mold Breaker breaking through the Sturdies of Golem, Probopass, and Bastiodon and OHKOing them. Scarf is seldom used but makes for a decently powerful cleaner and Life Orb sets were really common during the rounds Braviary was suspected in (spl era) because of the ability to switch up moves and use Knock Off / Toxic / Bulk Up to cripple common counters such as Musharna or Alomomola.

What caused it to have such a significant impact? (Think Movesets, abilities, base stats, etc)

Sawk caused such an impact because it can literally destroy any team without say a Ghost-type or a bulky Psychic-type such as Misdreavus or Musharna. Its pure power is why common Pokemon such as Musharna, Golurk, and Misdreavus are so common today - to deal with Sawk. Stall teams are known to carry multiple checks and counters such as Alomomola, Misdreavus, and Garbodor all on the same team and can still struggle with Sawk. It can also destroy many balanced or offensive teams because a lot of offensive mons are OHKOd and outsped such as Samurott or Ludicolo and its the reason why outspeeding the base 85 Speed tier is so important for a long time.

How would you deal with this Pokemon when you are team building/battling it? (checks, counters, etc)

Musharna and Misdreavus are the best counters to Sawk, but if you don't carry them on a team, it is important to have really good synergy and good resists/immunes such as Golurk or Exeggutor to abuse the usual Choice-locked Sawk and to make sure you don't get swept by it. Most of the time Sawk is just there to beat down a lot of walls such as Lickilicky or Regice that harm its teammates which makes Sawk even more devastating especially when paired with Skuntank to trap Musharna or Misdreavus. It is important to never let Sawk get a free switch in or a mon for it to easily come in on as well as making sure you don't play too risky against Sawk such as overpredicting an Ice Punch or something because that can really bite you in the ass.

took out braviary cause its definitely not worth to be in the top 10 imo but others can do it if they want to - also lel PO

 

[Punchshroom]

but the problem with charizard is that it's not even a top 10 threat in the current metagame and not even close in the previous ones. it wasn't around for the entirety of bw2 either and was never a metagame defining threat at any point, so it doesn't deserve to be in this thread.

In that sense, I suppose Carracosta, an S-Rank threat, is out of the question eh? I'd also personally hesitate to nominate Alomomola in that regard.

 

[watashi]

In that sense, I suppose Carracosta, an S-Rank threat, is out of the question eh? I'd also personally hesitate to nominate Alomomola in that regard.

yes that's why nobody nominated those pokemon lol

 

[Punchshroom]

I suppose I can nominate something else over Charizard (my reasoning being that Solar Power Sun Fire Blast is one of those looming attacks you don't want to face and Zard got better in this Stage).

Edit:

Jun 2013 stats: | 11 | Charizard | 9.557% |
Feb 2013 1850 stats: | 21 | Charizard | 8.15673% | 9777 | 10.622% | 7662 | 10.258% |
Jan 2013 Weighted: | 15 | Charizard | 8.21628% | 11686 | 9.152% | 9303 | 8.912% |
Dec 2011 1850 stats: | 14 | Charizard | 8.305% |

Now Charizard has never actually breached Top 10, but I'd say that is pretty close, hovering over the mark like Eelektross and Kangaskhan (which I take would also not be nominees).

Edit2: Fine, I'll reserve Golurk instead.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Everyone seemed to forget about a Pokemon (me included :eek:) that was probably the most metagame-transforming introduction...

I don't want to write up the form cos I'm lazy and I forgot a lot of things from the Snover meta, but Snover was a huge change, giving way to strategies that were uncommon otherwise before the stage (Walrein, Duosion, Rotom-F, Glaceon)

Someone write this up pleeeaaase :)

 

[Blast]

I'll take a whack at this.

Nominating Ludicolo

What effect did Ludicolo have on the metagame?

Ludicolo defines rain offense; imo it's the main reason rain teams even exist. He was the first Pokemon that really shouted "rain sweeper," since Gorebyss mainly relied on Shell Smash to sweep and Seismitoad sucked until BW2 where he got SR. Ludicolo was surprisingly easy to set up, and incredibly difficult to defeat under the rain. He also had a nice base 100 Special Defense and some cool support moves like Leech Seed, which also let him take a more defensive route, but mainly it was the rain sweeper that took the metagame by storm.

In what roles was Ludicolo used?

Like I said, Ludicolo mainly rocked NU as a rain sweeper, and to an extent a special wall. The rain sweeper could function as both a wallbreaker and a late-game cleaner, either smashing through special walls with rain-boosted Hydro Pumps or breezing through offensive threats with his amazing coverage options. SpD sets were decent too, but nowhere near as dominant or strong as Swift Swim, and Swift Swim was the set that everyone looked out for. The great thing about the set was that even though it was predictable, that didn't stop it from being awesome; it was incredibly difficult to beat it through many traditional methods and most of the time you just had to hope you could out-predict your opponent to stall out rain turns.

What caused it to have such an impact?

I've already covered this, but the main reason Ludi had such an impact was 1) how ridiculous he was after setting up and 2) how easy it was to set him up. Real counters to Ludicolo under rain are few and far between; there are a few Pokemon in the tier that can handle it relatively well, like Mantine or Roselia, but more often than not you really had nothing to stop Ludi's rampage. The next thing I'm going to cover is how easy it was to set him up; between his great special bulk, quad-resistance to Water and several other factors, Ludicolo was able to set up rain many more times than not. Even now, in a more offensive metagame dominated by dropdowns Scolipede and Jynx, Ludi still finds various setup opportunities and from there can simply sweep.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NU?

The best way to beat Ludicolo is to prevent it from setting up, as without its precious rain it's far easier to deal with. Like I said before, it was really hard to truly "deal" with Ludi once it set up, but if you should be unfortunate enough to let this happen, there are still some checks. Opposing bulky Ludicolo, Mantine, and Roselia are a few that come to mind, tanking any one attack from Ludi and either hitting it back with a super effective STAB or just being annoying and stalling out rain turns. If those don't float your boat, Jynx is a decent check with Dry Skin, just don't switch it directly into Giga Drain. Also, fast Scarfers like Charizard or Tauros are solid checks, outspeeding even in rain and taking it down with a little prior damage.

 

[atomicllamas]

Nominating Amoonguss

What effect did this mon have on the meta game?

When Amoonguss was in the tier, it was definitely a less offense oriented meta, as Amoonguss was a fantastic defensive pivot. With regenerator, solid defensive typing (toxic immunity and fighting resistance, yes please), and 114/70/80 defenses, it was really hard to take down, considering that your best counter was likely going to switch into a spore or stun spore. When Amoonguss was king of the tier (#1 in usage before leaving iirc), the double psychic core rose in popularity, and Amoonguss probably had a slight influence on this, as it crippling one psychic let the other one kill it. Without at least 2 good offensive answers to Amoonguss (preferably 3), your team was going to be stalled out, and lose. After Amoonguss rose to RU, dual fighting cores, and even fighting types in general saw a lot more use, which shows how much of an impact Amoonguss had.

In what roles was it used?

Due to regenerator, good bulk, and ability to annoy the hell out of opposing teams, it was most often used as a defensive pivot. However, base 85 SpA isn't too shabby, so it could also be used as a bulky offensive pivot, switching in to absorb moves, damaging the opponent and switching out to recover health. It also is one of the few mons with access to spore, making it a reliable status inducer, since with BW mechanics sleep is usually the equivalent of a kill.

What caused it to have such an impact?

As I have already stated, regenerator, defensive typing, and spore (status in general) all contributed to making Amoonguss a titan in the BW NU meta game. Many of the best responses to the defensive set were not able to switch in to the offensive set, making it surprisingly lethal for mispredictions. As mentioned below, Alomomola and Amoonguss formed an awesome regenerator core, which was incredibly annoying to take down.

How did you deal with Amoonguss?

Strong flying/fire/psychic STAB moves were the best way to get around Amoonguss, but Sap Sippers (bar Sawsbuck if you mispredict) were a great answer to Amoonguss, rendering 3 of it's most common moves useless.

 

[Lolk]

Nominating Alomomola

What effect did Alomomola have on the metagame?

Despite the hate, imo Alomomola has several niches that stand it out in the metagame. First of all, its huge ass HP, decent Defense, and pretty good defensive typing have blessed Alomomola with the ability to wall almost all of the physical threats of NU. This guy alone practically makes stall a viable playstyle. Earlier, Pokemon like Emboar would use Wild Charge to specifically deal damage to Fish, and so many physical attackers today run Toxic or mixed sets to deal with Alomomola (and Misdreavus and Tangela). Although it is handled more easily now, the fact that it needs to be specifically dealt with when teambuilding, and the fact that there is no way in hell you are stopping it if its checks are defeated proves it earns a spot on the Titan list.

In what main roles was Alomomlola used?

Being able to function in all playstyles, Alomomola functions as a wall in bulky/stall teams and as a bulky pivot in offensive teams. Other than Toxic stalling, it was used because of the gigantic Wishes it can pass, healing most (and sometimes all) of its teammates health. Its ability Regenerator boosts to this, since it rarely needs to heal itself in the pivot role. It is pretty straightforward with what it can and cannot do, so you don't need to guess on its moves in battle, but that doesn't stop it from doing its one job outstandingly.

What caused Alomomola to have such an impact?

I already mentioned what caused Alomomola to have such a big impact, so I will mention when Alomomola had such the biggest impact. When paired with Amoonguss, the duo formed the outstanding Alomoonguss core. Covering each other's weaknesses almost perfectly, and with Regenerator, the duo could switch in between each other and take out each other's threats with Spore and Toxic. Since Amoonguss left, Alomomola hasn't found another desirable partner such as that one, but a properly built team covers its weaknesses anyway, just with more slots.

How do you deal with Alomomola in NU?

While more answers to Alomomola pop up as the meta progresses, the basic answer was always an Electric- or Grass-type attack, preferably STAB, was the best answer, as Alomomola's Special Defense lacks compared to its Defense, and most attacks will KO. Strong Special STABs also break through eventually, but if they are already Toxiced, Alomomola can just Wish+Protect until their deaths. A few physical threats have popped up recently that can break through Fish such as CB Sawk, CB Muk, and Shell Smash Carracosta. Poisoning Alomomola with Toxic or Toxic Spikes is also a good method, but Stall teams usually have a Cleric and or Rapid Spin support to protect it, and Pivot versions don't plan on staying in long anyway. Tricking a Choice item onto Alomomola is probably the most hilarious and effective way of shutting it down, for obvious reasons. Setup Pokemon with Substitute or Rest are great answers to Alomomola as well. Gurdurr can break through Fish with Guts, Bulk Up, and Drain Punch easily as well.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Nominating Emboar, will explain in a bit

What effect did Emboar have on the metagame?

When NU was dominated by a slew of strong physical attackers that could break through everything by simply equipping a Choice Band, Emboar was amongst the most dangerous of these Pokemon. Equipped with this item, a set of Flare Blitz, Superpower, Wild Charge, and Head Smash was so strong that only a few viable Pokemon could switch in and avoid getting OHKOed by the proper move after Stealth Rock. However, Emboar was possibly the most dangerous offensively out of them all, having not one, but two 120 base power STAB moves that could punish pretty much anything that dare took it on, and when I say "punish" I mean "2HKO every Pokémon in NU and potentially OHKO all but about a dozen of them after Stealth Rock with the correct move."

So what could you do with the threat of a Pokémon that could do this? Well, if you wanted to run stall, you were almost required to run Alomomola, one of the few defensive checks to Choice Band Emboar, otherwise you could easily get steamrolled by it. There was also a tactic of running a bunch of obscenely powerful Choice Banded Pokémon, such as Braviary and Sawk, alongside Emboar with the goal of making one of them eventually finish off the weakened defensive cores of the opponents team and compensate for potential mispredictions, something that fell out of the limelight after Emboar left. This completely destroyed a lot of defensive teams, and Emboar was the leading man in this demolition oftentimes.

Emboar also caused a lot of people to not even consider using any other Fire-types, other than when Magmortar was a thing, as it was far more optimal than Charizard, Rapidash and the like in most scenarios due to many factors, including a Stealth Rock neutrality, and was therefore used a lot more than other Pokémon of its type. Not really too important but worth mentioning.

In what main roles was Emboar used?

Its best and most common role was undoubtedly the Choice Band set. This set was arguably the Choice Band user that packed the sheerest power, as it utilized its high power moves, to break down anything that stood in its way. Fact: there is not a single Pokémon that didn't get potentially heavily dented by this set. Although recoil moves seemed like a huge pain for Emboar, its naturally high HP stat made it take the recoil damage better than many other Pokemon. Then of course, there was Blaze, which meant that Emboar could fire off one heck of a final blow with Flare Blitz that was strong enough to always OHKO defensive Garbodor, a fairly impressive feat.

The threat of a Choice Band, and the fact that Emboar has high mixed attacker sets, made it a strong mixed attacker as well. Fire Blast, HP Ice, and Grass Knot could easily catch a lot of Pokémon off guard, especially when it often utilized an Expert Belt in order to possibly bluff choice with a Superpower. A Substitute was useful here too, causing extra annoyance for walls and causing Emboar to have a buffer in case the opponent attempts to outpredict it. Although it didn't have as much raw power as a Choice Band set, it excelled as a wallbreaker, and could wear down multiple switch-ins to make way for a sweeper. Last-but-unfortunately-most-likely-least was the Scarf set. Emboar isn't really too fast, still not getting the jump on Swellow even with the item, but it did at least get to still outspeed Cinccino. This made it a good cleaner and revenge killer for most scenarios, as Fire is a generally safe move to clean with, especially since not even Amoonguss or Tangela could not stop its rampage if it was repeatedly using the move. Otherwise, there isn't really much to say about Scarf Emboar in this tier – its strong and it cleans, and it occasionally may annoy otherwise-faster Pokémon.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

The fact that it killed everything. :) But seriously this post is so long that I think you know why by now.

How did you deal with Emboar in NU?

There weren't very many ways to counter Emboar, considering Choice Band was a 2HKO on every Pokemon in NU except defensive Shelgon. While you could have used something as rare as that, Bulky Water-types generally did pretty well if they could avoid the Wild Charge – Alomomola stood out as probably the best, most conventional check to it, as even if it got hit by Wild Charge, it could switch out thanks to Regenerator. It did, however, fear the Mixed set a bit, because a Rash Grass Knot could potentially hurt it badly. Otherwise, you really didn't really have that many options defensively to check it, as if Emboar predicts correctly you probably lost a Pokémon. Luring it into using a move and then switching into something that resists whatever it used is usually the best idea if you need to get rid of it defensively.

Because Emboar isn't that fast and isn't the bulkiest thing out there, a far more effective way to deal with it was by using offensive pressure or revenge killing it. Of course, even a revenge killer will have to watch out for a Scarf set unless it has a Scarf of its own… or unless it is Swellow, who outspeeds all Emboars, including Scarf variants. Samurott has Aqua Jet and a STAB, as well as a higher base speed, making it a safe option for either role. Choice Band variants of Braviary, Sawk, or some other Pokémon that is really strong can provide enough offensive pressure to deter it from switching in. Really though, offensive teams have an easier time actually killing Emboar, but they can't switch in either. Mixed Emboar is a different beast that can possibly catch you off guard and screw over your walls. However, the good news is that Emboar is much easier to take on in an offensive perspective as it doesn't hit as hard, netting much fewer OHKOs. Walls, however, will crumble down if you don't expect because of its ability to hit hard on either side, so you needed to be very careful to keep them alive if there is something such as Swellow or Samurott threatening to sweep once these checks are removed.

Basically, if Emboar gets on the field safely, you're going to need to do some prediction if you want to survive, possibly prompting it into using recoil moves to wear it down (which is almost every move it has) or depending on the defense drops from Superpower. Although this may require a few switches that are risky, Emboar hits so hard otherwise that if you want to come out on top with no fewer team members than before, you have no other option due to its sheer power. tl;dr countering emboar was really hard

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Mandibuzz is really the best switch-in to Golurk, nothing the latter has can OHKO the vulture, while she outspeeds and either Roosts to heal and weaken the Choiced move, or straight up use Foul Play, which OHKOes any Golurk with maximum Attack.

I beg to differ. I don't think Mandibuzz is the best switch into Golurk, because it takes huge damage from CB Ice Punch, and because of this, it can't really do this once it has been weakened slightly, nor can it do so multiple times. I would say the best switch into Golurk is Weezing, who can tank several hits from it and react with a combo of Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split and Fire Blast

Also, I don't think Alomomola is that influential to be a top 10 Titan. Alomomola is huge setup fodder and cannot do anything back to most opponents, and is huge setup fodder for Water resistant Pokemon, especially those with a substitute (eg. Jynx), also, while it is capable of walking most physical attackers, I don't think that's influential enough since the metagame has never been centralized around it, it never has been hyped that much, and it certainly isn't unbeatable.

 

[termi]

I beg to differ. I don't think Mandibuzz is the best switch into Golurk, because it takes huge damage from CB Ice Punch, and because of this, it can't really do this once it has been weakened slightly, nor can it do so multiple times.

It might not be the best switchin, but it's certainly very good because it doesn't get OHKO'd either and can Roost off some damage or just instantly gor for the OHKO. What makes Mandibuzz such a good counter though, is that most people let their Golurk stay in on Mandibuzz. Yeah I said it. When my Mandibuzz is out on the field with an opposing Golurk, they tend to stay in for whatever reason, and I'm not talking about once or twice, but most of the time. In theory you could just switch out to whatever checks Mandibuzz, but many people let Golurk stay in because they think it can outspeed and KO Mandibuzz (or maybe they think people still run Brave Bird over Foul Play).