..... - The Revenankh Discussion Thread

[Black Buddha]

http://ivnbvn.com/batcap/revenankh.html

Revenankh is probably one of the most reliable characters in this game- He has decent matchups against nearly all of the cast, and is relatively easy to pick up for newcomers as well!

Revenankh is usually categorised as a grappler, who can play a nasty wake up game with a meaty 2C and a quick A-Power Whip. Between the two, unless the defender predicts correctly, they are in for a world of pain. Revenankh also has one of the best anti airs in the game, 4B, which can be followed up by an air grab. Multiple 4Bs can also be used if you are fast enough.

Revenankh can also effectively use his other specials, Shadow Punch and Bind, to go on the offensive. Shadow Punch is a great way to approach as it is invincible during the travelling phase. Bind works like Shadow Punch, but acts as a grab, so mixups between Shadow Punch and Bind can easily catch defensive opponents off guard.

Rest is probably not the best ability, but if you find yourself against someone who stays packed up in a corner, you might as well use it to regain some precious hit points. Generally though, you're better off saving it for the strong Punishment. Speaking of which, you'll generally want to use it as you use Power Whip- use it to punish (hehehe) moves or as a grapple on wake up.

Onto combos and cancels-

- Strong Shadow Punch cancels into Light Shadow Punch or Light Bind
- 3C cancels into A-Shadow Punch and A-Bind
- 5B cancels into A-Shadow Punch and A-Bind
- 5C cancels into both 4B and 2C

Combos-
- C-Punch -> A-Punch -> 5C -> 4B -> Air Grab / f.5C / 3C
- A/B-Punch -> 5C -> 4B -> Air Grab / f.5C
The best follow up is Air grab for damage and wake up tricks, but if you need space for rest, 3C wall slams. when close to a wall, f.5C is the better option. f.5C is the only other option if you do two 4B as well. Against most opponents, you can use multiple 4Bs before the air grab to get in a little more damage.
- C-Bind -> Air Grab
- jC -> 3C
- jC -> (5C) -> 4B -> Air Grab
(Note: The jC must be on a grounded opponent)
- 5A -> 2A -> 2B
- Punishment -> 4B -> Air Grab
You can choose to follow up Punishment with f.5C to get breathing space, although air grab is best to finish off the game

Power Whip set ups- I dont think these are REALLY combos, but still useful for setting up for a Power Whip (and even Punishment!).

- 5A -> 2A -> 2B -> Power Whip
- jB on crossup -> Power Whip
- A/B/C-Punch -> 5C -> 4B -> jA -> Power Whip

That's all I have to say for the moment, discuss matchups, post new comboes and cancels, power whip setups, and even just your general opinion on Revenankh.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Rev has some serious speed issues when you consider Punishment's range.

Otherwise, its basically a vicious game of keep hitting with Shadow Punch, which is Rev's fastest means of locomotion. I'm serious.

Since this isn't listed:

jC + Rising Moon + RIsing Moon + Air Grab.

Easy way to strip off ~30% of an opponent's health.

 

[FimPhym]

Revenankh is usually categorised as a grappler, who can play a nasty wake up game with a meaty 2C and a quick A-Power Whip.

If you're not using C-Power whip on wake up, you're doing it wrong. The downside to C-Power whip is the few frames extra start up. They are knocked down. Just start the power whip like 2 frames earlier, and get more damage. Note: Don't do this against machines that can react in 0.066 seconds, but not 0.033 seconds like poorly optimised robots.

Rest is probably not the best ability, but if you find yourself against someone who stays packed up in a corner, you might as well use it to regain some precious hit points.

I like to come out of rest with light shadow punch or 4B, you can counter a lot of approaches. Hasty, thoughtless, panicked approaches.


Anyway, my opinion is that rev is too good at the moment. Part of it is that grabs are too good right now, and rev appreciates that a lot. Gets him a point blank KD quite often. That's not all though. He has a few tools with skewed risk/reward ratios.

At the moment, Rev has the wake up game, 4B and the shadow punch/bind mix ups/combos.

The wake up game, okay, he is the freaking grappler, you should be terrified of being KD'd next to him. Deal with it!

The 4B, it leads into air grab and sets up the wake up game. Well that's pretty okay, but 4B is really fast and seems to beat everything. That maybe needs toned back, but it's not as bad as it hitting grounded opponents. When ant is up in my face, I carelessly toss out 4Bs and sometimes trade hits (in my favour) or sometimes he went for the j.2b mix up or a cross up, and now I get big damage + wake up games. At least if it didn't hit things on the ground (besides the super tall Rev mirror match) it'd need to be used more carefully.

Then there's the shadow punch/bind mix up. This is where I take issue. The shadow punch combos lead into huge damage AND wake up games. All this while simultaneously threatening to grab. And if it's blocked? Safe block string! C-Shadow punch is particularly wonky imo, since it's not the hardest punch to land (that'd be B-Shadow punch) yet it has the biggest pay off. From nearly full screen Rev is threatening to do an absurd combo for huge damage, then put you into KD games. The amusing thing is he'd be happy enough just to be in and get the KD from the SP with no combo. I really dislike the cancel from C-SP to A-SP. I think C-SP can't cancel into cl.5C, and I like that!

While Rev might be a little worse when grabs get fixed, he'll always have power whip. These are the ideas I have to make Rev a little less silly:

C-Shadow punch having no cancels, so it's way less safe on block and doesn't do huge damage if you catch someone from nearly full screen away.
4B whiffs on grounded opponents, maybe slightly longer recovery (At the moment, 4B is practically no risk, huge reward)

I think that, with fair grabs, would make rev totally fine. If not, one last nail in the sarcophagus:

Air grab damage toned down. This tones down his anti-air scaryness slightly, air grab already means he gets to play wake up games. Makes punishment slightly less automatically round-winning, makes shadow punch combos less hugely damaging. Still lets him keep iconic shadow-punch juggle. Ignoring damage scaling is really dangerous!

Anyway, Rev is still beatable at the moment, it's just hard. His power level isn't what concerns me mostly, it's his mindless no-risk stuff. 4B is basically spam-for-free. C-Shadow punch is a full screen get in tool, combos into amazing damage, can turn into a safe blockstring or low/throw mix up after A-Shadow punch, OR you can cancel it into bind for damage. This is a lot of power at near full screen for the guy you are trying to keep out, especially since landing C-SP alone guarantees KD mix ups.

also despite the massive amount of whining about the problems, man is rev ever satisfying to play, and he really feels strong! I like his overall design. I love that his sweep is scary again.

Also I'm glad buddha stole this thread. All I know how to do is 2C, 24C and 4B

 

[Cartoons!]

No one has been as vocal about Revenankh as you, Fim. I appreciate your diligence is putting forth your opinions fairly and intelligently.

You've pretty much moved me to change my stance on Rev. I've always accepted that he had a rather large number of things going for him. His slow speed is very much negated by the ease with which he can get in using SP/Bind, and how painful he can make things for an opponent when doing so. Apparently this works too much in his favour to the detriment of the rest of the cast. A good landscaper knows when to prune, and if this garden's going to work, Rev may, in fact, have to meet the shears.

Will take your recommendations into account when making the changes. They're not reall 'nerfs' so much as directing a sharper focus on his strengths, and to do so, some of his clutter may have to go.

 

[FimPhym]

There's a great core design in there, toons. It's just not quite right imo, and there's some really skewed risk/rewards outside of his grappling. They are even tools that he requires to be good! They are just a bit slanted atm. The building blocks are still good though.

 

[Cartoons!]

Well, two updates later and I think Rev is fair again.

I don't play him as much as I used to, but I've found the better my opponents get, the smarter I have to play (obvious, right?)

What I mean precisely is, Revenankh can't do damage unless he's in your face. Some characters are really good at keep you out of their face. On the surface, it seems like Shadowpunch and Bind are great ways to get in, but the problem is...they get predictable. And they're easily punished. Which means Rev can easily fall into the trap of overzealously trying to rush in and getting really badly hurt because of it.

The Rev game as I see it now is him moving in slowly. Wait for them to panic and throw out some move and space/time your SP accordingly. Once Rev scores that knockdown, he can do some real damage, but the threat of that knockdown is, ironically, how you're going to score half of your damage in many instances. Jabs, pokes and meaties will punish nervous players who want to get away or attack too recklessly. Shadowpunches and Binds work very well to catch people who want to jump or dash away, and Force Palm is just good for everything.

A Rev player has to be patient and force his opponents into making mistakes. He has a lot of threatening tools, but they can't be abused. Learn to read your opponent's patterns and don't get predictable yourself.

 

[FimPhym]

Yeah I have always been happy with the direction Rev has been going in. He has amazing normals, yet only now are they getting the love they deserve. It shows we're starting to get beyond incredibly too-good set ups for Rev. His wake up game is scary, yet it's actually not universal and boring. Against some of the cast, dash back on wake up is god-mode, even against sweep! This means Rev has a big incentive to do early A-SP. Same goes for when he is baiting a reversal.

Secret: Walk forward for Rev is the scariest and best approach.