Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

[PK Gaming]

The proposed changes to C/D rank are finally going into effect. I'm going to completely rebuild C-rank from the ground up.

The Pokemon that will remain in C-rank

• Aerodactyl
• Azelf
• Azumarill
• Chandelure
• Cresselia
• Donphan
• Froslass
• Jolteon
• Metagross
• Shaymin
• Liligant
• Moltres
• Slowbro
• Slowking
• Virizion

The rest are now in D-rank

This change was made because the current tier list was way too lenient with it's rankings. C-rank was basically filled to the brim with Pokemon (who were quite honestly), a step below "effective with the right support." It was more evident when I cross-examined this ranking thread with the other tier threads, I noticed that even their lower ranks were fairly rigid. I asked around for player input in regards to C-rank, and the most common sentiment I got was "I would only use maybe a handful of the Pokkemon in C-rank in a competitive environment." So from now on, assume that what you see in C-rank is the bare minimum when it comes to tournament/high level play, and what you see in D-rank is pertains to Pokemon who are unexplored or barely viable in current OU metagame.

Note: These changes are preliminary and subject to change, but don't assume that i'll be readily willing to make changes either. Quite the opposite in fact; you'll have to give me a strong reason to justify moving a Pokemon up.

After we finalize C-rank, we can move down to D-rank and sort that tier out too. (Maybe even consider removals?)

PS: Shut up about Donphan.

 

[magic123]

OK OK I GET IT TYRANITAR IS A GOOD POKEMON NOW STOP FLAMING ME PEOPLE.

Now Chou Toshio proved me wrong the last time,and my post was terrible and indecipherable because I was kind of in a bad mood at that moment.Im extremely sorry for that.If someone can prove me wrong,point by point like Chou Toshio did,please go ahead.

I'll try to make a more convincing argument this time.I'm still not convinced that Tyranitar is a definite S ranker,but a possible one,and heres why:

Now dropping Tyranitar is very debatable,but the fast nature of the metagame hinders it's effectiveness because it's typing gives it many weaknesses,and,like I said,every offensive Pokemon in this metagame has at least one supereffective move against it.Don't get me wrong,Tyranitar can still take these supereffective hits,but it's speed makes them easily exploitable.And,even though it Pursuit traps fairly easily,it will take significant amount of damage in the process from,for example,Celebi's Leaf Storm(Defensive Celebi just Baton Passes out),Latias/Latios's Surf/Draco Meteor,Starmie's Hydro Pump,etc..This will make Tyranitar weakened to the point where it can no longer survive any more hits,and really,being such a slow pokemon,it can only fire off stray Fire Blasts here and there and maybe set up Stealth Rock before it becomes dead weight.Not every set of Tyranitar works like that,but most of the time Tyranitar really ends up dying like this.

Now,the number of Pokemon who can KO Tyranitar or threaten it out is tremendous.Let me name all of them:Alakazam,Breloom,Offensive Celebi,Conkeldurr,Dragonite with EQ,Dugtrio,Garchomp,Gyarados,Haxorus(it always carries either EQ,Aqua Tail or Superpower),Hydreigon(with Superpower),Infernape,Keldeo,Landorus-T,Lucario,Mamoswine,Metagross,Specs Toed with Focus Blast,Scizor(with sufficient speed EVs),Terrakion,Thundurus-T(with Focus Blast)and Toxicroak.Not to mention other pokemon such as Venusaur and Volcarona who can also KO Tyranitar once weakened sufficiently.However,there are some redeeming things about Tyranitar that may keep it in S rank.Tyranitar,in turn,carries a supereffective move for all the above mentioned pokemon,except for Conkeldurr,Gyarados,Keldeo,and Toed,which means the above pokemon cannot really switch in.

Now,there are more factors that may keep it from falling into A+ rank.It is one of the hardest things to switch into,especially the Band set,as Tyranitar has the most coverage of any other OU pokemon,and can KO it's "counters" with the appropriate moves.For example,Landorus-T is easily taken down my Ice Beam.

Now sand cannot be the only factor keeping it up in S rank,even though rain is the only factor keeping Politoed S rank.Think about it:if Tyranitar did not set up sand,it would really be a mediocre pokemon,even if it keeps it's special defense outside of sand.I have never seen someone use Unnerve Tyranitar before,just like how you will never see Politoed outside of rain.However,I have seen some higher ladder players use Hippowdon in a Sunstall team.Does this mean that Hippowdon has higher viablity than Tyranitar and Politoed because even without it's weather it sees use?I don't know.Perhaps the lack of great Special Defense outside of sand keeps it from trapping those psychics consistently,which decreases it's viability outside of sand.This subject really needs more discussion than it gets.

All factors considered,thats really my take on Tyranitar,I am sorry for the ragepost the last time,maybe I'll delete it.

Tyranitar possible A+ rank.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Tyranitar is S rank because it shuts down the most dangerous weather around, checkmates monstrous powerful threats like latios or sturdy walls like celebi, with pursuit, paving the way for another sweeper (it was partially responsible for landorus ban and keldeo second suspect), setups stealth rock and is extremely versatile. Seriously, what else could you possibly want.

 

[Spinda]

what do you mean it sets up stealth rock? I have a SR tyranitar team and 90% of the time, it's not setting up rocks, there's just way too much pressure on it and its dying too easily, it has so few set-up opportunities it's ridiculous.. Atleast Hippo has opportunities to set up rocks and just fares way better in general.. Also, what do you mean it shuts down the most dangerous weather around? Last I checked sun used duggy. Celebi runs baton pass, and it isn't hard to deal with in general, the only reason I ever use tyranitar is when I really want a weather and I really want a way to deal with Latios in the same slot.. But if anything that makes Latios S-Rank cuz it's forcing me to use a sub-par pokemon. ( And ttar still takes a shit ton from specs latios fuck )

I love facing ttar cuz it's usually practically a 6 vs 5 battle ( besides vs scarftar and SOMETIMES bandtar, but even those really are A-Rank to me, versatility bumps that to A+ )

I'd love to see Ttar replaced by a hippo in S-rank.


( No I don't actually think Latios is S-Rank, though I consider it a better A+ than Tyranitar )

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

what do you mean it sets up stealth rock? I have a SR tyranitar team and 90% of the time, it's not setting up rocks, there's just way too much pressure on it and its dying too easily, it has so few set-up opportunities it's ridiculous.. Atleast Hippo has opportunities to set up rocks and just fares way better in general.. Also, what do you mean it shuts down the most dangerous weather around? Last I checked sun used duggy. Celebi runs baton pass, and it isn't hard to deal with in general, the only reason I ever use tyranitar is when I really want a weather and I really want a way to deal with Latios in the same slot.. But if anything that makes Latios S-Rank cuz it's forcing me to use a sub-par pokemon. ( And ttar still takes a shit ton from specs latios fuck )

I love facing ttar cuz it's usually practically a 6 vs 5 battle ( besides vs scarftar and SOMETIMES bandtar, but even those really are A-Rank to me, versatility bumps that to A+ )

I'd love to see Ttar replaced by a hippo in S-rank.


( No I don't actually think Latios is S-Rank, though I consider it a better A+ than Tyranitar )

I stopped reading after i read those.

 

[Spinda]

Maybe the 6 vs 5 thing was exaggerated, but in all honesty, tyranitar is sub-par in the current metagame compared to most A-Ranks, a decent amount of lower ranks too.
E.G. Abomasnow is actually a better pokemon in the current metagame than tyranitar is right now from my point of view

 

[Halcyon.]

what do you mean it sets up stealth rock? I have a SR tyranitar team and 90% of the time, it's not setting up rocks, there's just way too much pressure on it and its dying too easily, it has so few set-up opportunities it's ridiculous.. Atleast Hippo has opportunities to set up rocks and just fares way better in general.. Also, what do you mean it shuts down the most dangerous weather around? Last I checked sun used duggy. Celebi runs baton pass, and it isn't hard to deal with in general, the only reason I ever use tyranitar is when I really want a weather and I really want a way to deal with Latios in the same slot.. But if anything that makes Latios S-Rank cuz it's forcing me to use a sub-par pokemon. ( And ttar still takes a shit ton from specs latios fuck )

I love facing ttar cuz it's usually practically a 6 vs 5 battle ( besides vs scarftar and SOMETIMES bandtar, but even those really are A-Rank to me, versatility bumps that to A+ )

I'd love to see Ttar replaced by a hippo in S-rank.

Please tell me this is a joke. You have to be kidding. A match with Tyranitar is 6 v 5? Not even close! Jesus, is all you ever see Banded Tyranitar? Cause let me tell you, the second you try to Baton Pass your Celebi out and it gets nailed by Crunch, you're going to second guess how "hard to deal with" it is. Now your Celebi will be too weak to even attempt to take on Keldeo, Breloom, Thundurus-T, or whatever other Pokémon I'm using with Tyranitar. But it's choice sets aren't all it can use either. The SDef set never finds time to set up rocks, but Hippo does??????? No, I think they both find it pretty easy to set up. Tyranitar can do it just as easily as Hippo can, because it switches into things that it forces out *cough*Latios*cough* and use Stealth Rock then. You know, like every other rocks setter in the game. What have you been doing with your Tyranitar? Trying to set up rocks on Terrakion? Yeah, you're right, that's not going to work. And just watch when Chople Berry Tyranitar lures in your Alakazam or Gengar only to survive and OHKO with Crunch. OR you send in your Ferrothorn thinking htey're locked into Crunch/Pursuit, and it gets destroyed by Fire Blast. Speaking of which, the Sash Lead set is great! Crunch / Superpower / Ice Beam / Fire Blast hits all of the common SR leads, which will almost ALWAYS assume you are choiced and going to switch out, so they will set up Rocks first. It also outspeeds and OHKOs all Landorus-T that aren't running a +Speed nature (I know for a fact that ShootinStarmie doesn't run Speed on his Landorus-T). I mean, we're talking about a Pokémon that supports Keldeo, Breloom, Thundurus-T, Conkeldurr, Terrakion, and others with just ONE SET (the Scarf one with Pursuit / Crunch / Stone Edge Ice Beam lures in Lando and Gliscor for Terrakion). It's such an influential force in the metagame, I'm struggling to understand how it is that you think it is sub par (yet you think it's A+???).

 

[Spinda]

As I said the scarf set is actually quite good, enough to make it A-Rank imo, add to that the other commonly used, albeit bad sets, for versatility and it makes for a good low A+ pokemon in my opinion.
My point was that it's ridiculously hard to switch in and force something out without taking more damage than the rocks are actually worth, especially considering it has no recovery, there's also way less opportunities it gets to force something out than hippo does.

I really don't see how it was relevant at all that ShootingStarmie doesn't run speed on his lando-t

 

[PDC]

Ttar has plenty of uses, I don't know why you would feel it is such a lower rank. Pursuiting alone is amazing, and it is one of the best support mons in the current meta game. You have things like Latios running around, which a bulky tar is one of the best answers too. LeadTar is also great, it does amazing early game and is a fantastic way to start out the game. SashTar does amazing against offensive builds, so most likely you won't be starting the game at a disadvantage.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

This thread, in a nutshell:

"I think x Pokemon should be in a lower rank"
"No, it should stay, and here's why"
"No, it should go down and I'm going to ignore your points"

Spinda, how are you using SR Tyranitar? Because I guarantee you, if you're trying to set up rocks against Garchomp or Terrakion, you're doing it entirely wrong. But, OH MY GOD! It is SO DIFFICULT to switch in on something Tyranitar can actually, I dunno, TAKE ON, and *GASP* get up Stealth Rock! It's totally not like Latios/Latias exist and Tyranitar can't threaten them with that Crunch/Pursuit at all! No! Absolutely not! It totally can't get up Stealth Rock at all because the situations it can take advantage of don't matter one bit! /sarcasm

Have you even, I dunno, USED any set except Scarf and SR? All of Tyranitar's sets on site have their uses and you should really use them before you decide they're bad. Tyranitar's versatility and the fact that it can support a large number of Pokemon effectively makes it worthy of S-rank.

 

[Spinda]

Why is everyone assuming I'm trying to set up rocks against garchomp or terrak? You don't face Latios or Latias in every battle, and they're one of the few offensive pokemon it can set up rocks on comfortably if it's willing to give up a ton of its hp in latios' case.
And yes, I've used most of tyranitar's sets, and they're not bad per se, but I rarely feel like I'm using the moveslot to its full potential, and I'm not at all impressed with it from the times I've faced it either.

 

[Stone RG]

This thread, in a nutshell:

"I think x Pokemon should be in a lower rank"
"No, it should stay, and here's why"
"No, it should go down and I'm going to ignore your points"

Spinda, how are you using SR Tyranitar? Because I guarantee you, if you're trying to set up rocks against Garchomp or Terrakion, you're doing it entirely wrong. But, OH MY GOD! It is SO DIFFICULT to switch in on something Tyranitar can actually, I dunno, TAKE ON, and *GASP* get up Stealth Rock! It's totally not like Latios/Latias exist and Tyranitar can't threaten them with that Crunch/Pursuit at all! No! Absolutely not! It totally can't get up Stealth Rock at all because the situations it can take advantage of don't matter one bit! /sarcasm

Have you even, I dunno, USED any set except Scarf and SR? All of Tyranitar's sets on site have their uses and you should really use them before you decide they're bad. Tyranitar's versatility and the fact that it can support a large number of Pokemon effectively makes it worthy of S-rank.

....
I dont think you got what she was saying at all. First of all there are 2 types of (viable) STealth Rocks TTar: Lead and Specially defensive. They are both sub par at their job at best.

Specially defensive ttar gets otuclassed by prettu much every rocks setter in standard sand: Lando T, Chomp, jirachi, hippo, hell even terrakion. Why? Because they all tend to force switches MUCH better than specially defensive tyranitar. Support ttar has no damage output with its standard moves and lacks reliable recovery, with Specs Latios and LO latias, most good players wont be sending in theur lati twins until ttar is weakened enough for a kill w/ a double surf, hell, sp def ttar is set up fodder on a crap load of stuff and lacks the characteristics to win the weather war even against sun most of the time.

I have a soft spot for Lead Ttar, but that doesnt mean its any less ineffective. The original purpose of that set was to gain rocks and a kill as quickly as possible, but with Jolly loom and speed creeping Lando T all over the place, that doesnt work anymore. You might as well be using a skarm for the lead spot, since SashtAR cannot win a weather war to save its life, and is counterproductive w/ hippo.

All in all, any type of rocks Tyranitar lacks offensive presence, easily dies against the most common attackers and, w/ no reliable recovery, its not that easy to trap the lati twins anymore. With that said tho, i agree for Tyranitar to A+, i dont think we can throw it to A simply because of how important it is for most sand teams, which are usually weatherless + ttar this days, to stop opposing weathers or theyre screwed by a tornadus spamming Specs Hurricanes or a +2/+2/+2 Venu on ther faces.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

....
I dont think you got what she was saying at all. First of all there are 2 types of (viable) STealth Rocks TTar: Lead and Specially defensive. They are both sub par at their job at best.

Specially defensive ttar gets otuclassed by prettu much every rocks setter in standard sand: Lando T, Chomp, jirachi, hippo, hell even terrakion. Why? Because they all tend to force switches MUCH better than specially defensive tyranitar. Support ttar has no damage output with its standard moves and lacks reliable recovery, with Specs Latios and LO latias, most good players wont be sending in theur lati twins until ttar is weakened enough for a kill w/ a double surf, hell, sp def ttar is set up fodder on a crap load of stuff and lacks the characteristics to win the weather war even against sun most of the time.

I have a soft spot for Lead Ttar, but that doesnt mean its any less ineffective. The original purpose of that set was to gain rocks and a kill as quickly as possible, but with Jolly loom and speed creeping Lando T all over the place, that doesnt work anymore. You might as well be using a skarm for the lead spot, since SashtAR cannot win a weather war to save its life, and is counterproductive w/ hippo.

All in all, any type of rocks Tyranitar lacks offensive presence, easily dies against the most common attackers and, w/ no reliable recovery, its not that easy to trap the lati twins anymore. With that said tho, i agree for Tyranitar to A+, i dont think we can throw it to A simply because of how important it is for most sand teams, which are usually weatherless + ttar this days, to stop opposing weathers or theyre screwed by a tornadus spamming Specs Hurricanes or a +2/+2/+2 Venu on ther faces.

What you say about SR Tar is true for the most part; personally it is my least favorite set. However, I think you're underrating it a bit. Is it set-up fodder? Sure. Is it forced out easily? Sure. Yes, I would say it is easily the worst Tyranitar set you can run. All of the Pokemon you listed are better than Tyranitar at setting up Stealth Rock, but let's consider for a second that none of them can set up Stealth Rock, Pursuit trap the Latis, AND get up weather at the same time. Last time I checked, only Tyranitar can do this. I think we're looking too much at offensive Pokemon; Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory all do not want to take a Fire Blast, so that's three more opportunities for getting up rocks (Skarmory can Taunt to prevent SR, but I only see Taunt on the lead set.) Do we use SR Tyranitar for offensive presence? No; I'd say its massive Special bulk in Sand is what really defines it. Tyranitar can take virtually any neutral/resisted Special hit and even some super effective ones comfortably (i.e. SpD Celebi's Giga Drain,) so really it can get up Stealth Rock against any Special attacker that doesn't run Focus Blast/Hydro Pump and isn't named Venusaur, or (more common scenario, since the previous one doesn't happen much outside of Lati twins/Jolteon) one that's Choice-locked into a move that's not doing jack shit to Tyranitar.

I don't have much personal experience with Sash Lead T-tar, so I'm not going to comment on it; I'll let someone who has more experience with that set comment on it.

So, what I'm saying is, yes, what you're saying about SpD T-tar is correct; it's weak, it has no recovery, and it's setup fodder for the likes of Terrakion, Garchomp, and Lucario, and I would personally agree that it's Tyranitar's worst set. But, when I did use it I personally didn't find it too difficult to set up Stealth Rock due to the factors I listed. While the set itself is not S-rank, A+ rank, and probably not even A-rank, it's still a decent set with a solid niche over other Stealth Rock setters (it can still Pursuit trap and also set up weather; no other SR setter can do both at once) that contributes to Tyranitar's versatility. But, in the end, we seem to have different standards for what's sub par and what isn't sub par, so this conversation probably won't go anywhere.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

I think I should trademark -Speed Landorus-T. y/n?

But in all seriousness, I actually think both sides have a point. Spinda is right in that Tyranitar isn't the best SR user in the game, as I often feel it lacks opportunities to set up SR as well, mainly because of it's typing and bad match up against other common leads (Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Terrakion etc). On the other hand, Halcyon is right in saying that Tyranitar is a great Pokemon. Tyranitar is rightfully S ranks it can fill a ton of roles for your team, and completely change the game just by switching in. It checks some of the most dangerous special attackers in the tier, and has a pretty amazing speed tier (Choice Scarf Tyranitar out speeds Gengar, Latios, Starmie, and Tornadus). Being the best Pursuit trapper also makes Tyranitar a brilliant Pokemon, but I understand where Spinda is coming from. Just try to chill a little bit guys. Every time I read this thread it's just a bunch of users attacking another bunch of users.

Be cool, be chill. It's Pokemon after all.

 

[Magcargo]

Tyranitar is okay in S-Rank- Some us are really underestimating Tyranitar's amazing Special Defense and its Pursuiting abilities. The presence of Tyranitar alone make things such as spamming Draco Meteor with Latios and seting up Calm Minds with Latias a liability. The recently popularized mixed set can also deal with common checks to Tyranitar and a STAB Stone Edge from Base 134 Attack is still extremely scary to face. Apart from maybe Scizor, there is nothing in OU that can do what Tyranitar does.

I also propose that Starmie is moved up to S-Rank. As seen on the suspect ladder, Starmie just as good, if not better, than Keldeo. Thanks to its high Speed, Starmie is able to outpace a large amount of the metagame, including pokemon such as CS Magnezone, Latios, Keldeo and Garchomp. Analytic LO Starmie has a similar damage output to CS Keldeo, but doesn't have to lock itself into one move. Starmie also has Rapid Spin and thanks to Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt/psyshock, Starmie is able to defeat the two best spinblockers in the tier. Starmie also has amazing coverage, allowing it to hit nearly every OU Pokemon for at leastt nuetral damage. Overall, I believe that Starmie has the power, versatility and Speed to be S-Rank in the current metagame.

 

[Schpoonman]

Damn you, PK. You dropped the Angriest Bird That Ever Was. *ahem*

Keep Starmie in A+. It cannot get past SpDef Jellicent without Thunder or Analytic boosts, and if it's not the full-tilt offensive variant it's not getting past even with Thunder. It's also entirely walled by Ferrothorn barring the EXTREMELY rare HP Fire, and that LO Analytic boost is only for one move, and you have to predict very well in order to make use of it. Keldeo hits that hard literally all the time. And for fuck's sake, can we please stop talking about Choice Scarf Magnezone? I remember the last time I saw Crobat in OU. I don't remember the last time I saw Scarfzone.

That being said, Jellicent really is the only spinblocker that puts up a fight against Starmie, so its spot as the best offensive spinner in OU and in A+ is well-deserved.

 

[Numera]

What does the mod mean by "shut up about donphan"? As in, stop saying it's bad or its good, cause I WAS going to say it was worthy of regular C/ B- rank.

On another topic, I agree on T Tar for A+, for mostly the same reasons as everyone else. I don't really want Starmie to be moved up either. How about either sawbuck up or Venusaur down? Both may need Sun, but they can sweep through most of OU. And A requires little support, they both really only need Sun

 

[Qualna]

Tyranitar is S rank because it shuts down the most dangerous weather around, checkmates monstrous powerful threats like latios or sturdy walls like celebi, with pursuit, paving the way for another sweeper (it was partially responsible for landorus ban and keldeo second suspect), setups stealth rock and is extremely versatile. Seriously, what else could you possibly want.

More speed.

.However,I have seen some higher ladder players use Hippowdon in a Sunstall team.Does this mean that Hippowdon has higher viablity than Tyranitar and Politoed because even without it's weather it sees use?I don't know.Perhaps the lack of great Special Defense outside of sand keeps it from trapping those psychics consistently,which decreases it's viability outside of sand.This subject really needs more discussion than it gets. it.

Hippowdon is used as a physical wall, Hippowdon is easily the best physical wall in the entire game. But that doesn't make it more viable than Tyranitar, S Rank Pokémons have impressive versatility which Hippodwon lacks(have you seen mixed attacking Hippodwon?). Tyranitar is pretty much impossible to defeat until you scouted its set. Which is why it is S Rank. Rightfully.

 

[Spinda]

More speed.



Hippowdon is used as a physical wall, Hippowdon is easily the best physical wall in the entire game. But that doesn't make it more viable than Tyranitar, S Rank Pokémons have impressive versatility which Hippodwon lacks(have you seen mixed attacking Hippodwon?). Tyranitar is pretty much impossible to defeat until you scouted its set. Which is why it is S Rank. Rightfully.

The ability to be both a good physical wall and a good mixed wall is just about as versatile as keldeo gets if you ask me, and it still has some pretty decent tank sets, slack off and the strongest EQ in OU are still a decent niche I guess.

More speed and less weaknesses would be what Ttar needs, but for now I can't help but feel it's high A low A+.. Hell, I've been using bisharp as a pursuit trapper lately and I've actually preferred that, it might not always switch in as well, but double switches still work good enough.. When you have a ttar or your team they're rarely gonna give you the opportunity to switch in regularly on something pursuit trappable anyway

 

[Qualna]

The ability to be both a good physical wall and a good mixed wall is just about as versatile as keldeo gets if you ask me, and it still has some pretty decent tank sets, slack off and the strongest EQ in OU are still a decent niche I guess.

More speed and less weaknesses would be what Ttar needs, but for now I can't help but feel it's high A low A+.. Hell, I've been using bisharp as a pursuit trapper lately and I've actually preferred that, it might not always switch in as well, but double switches still work good enough.. When you have a ttar or your team they're rarely gonna give you the opportunity to switch in regularly on something pursuit trappable anyway

Not neccesarily true, Hippowdon has only a few viable sets, it isn't versatile. Keldeo might have a poor movepool, but it has what it needs, it can be a revenge killer, wallbreaker, lure, set-up sweeper and some more, unlike Hippowdon who can only be a Physical Wall or a Mixed Wall, or the gimmicky Curse sweeper set.

And "when you have ttar on your team, they're rarely gonna... blah blah" is pretty contradicting, it doesn't only apply to ttar, it also applies to all known Pursuit trappers. Most steel types fear Magnezone and will probably U-Turning or switching like crazy. See? It applies to all trappers.

Aside that, what you said is incorrect, you use teamates that lure Pursuit baits to maximize it's potential, or teamates that appreciate those Psychic, Ghost, other weather starters(bar Hippowdon), if you don't use that, don't bother using Pursuit, ttar's movepool is as vast as the sea, so pick your poison. It can also take out choiced attackers locked in a bad move, like Specslitoed locked in Ice Beam.

I'll give you a sample scenario:
Your Dragon resists, Forretress(it's Custap, don't worry) and Scizor are dead. You're down 6-4, add insult to injury, the enemy's Salamence somehow got a DDance under its belt, fortunately, you still have your Scarf Latios, you were about to send it out when you remember the enemy has a Tyranitar! You said, "Oh no, he will Pursuit trap me!", but then again, no other Pokémon on your team can stop Salamence.

I'm not saying anything about your battling skills, my point is that you use Pursuit when you have teamates that lure Pursuit-able enemies. So the enemy has no choice but to send them out, then pursuit it and after that, you send out your Keldeo or something that appreciates threats like Latios gone.

PS Isn't Garchomp's, Mamoswine's and Landrous-T's Earthquake (Rhyperior, Rhydon, Krookodile, Donphan and Golurk too!) stronger than Hippowdon's?

 

[Spinda]

In that scenario, Draco might be the best play, but lol scarflatios. The pursuit is what's being hyped up so much and now you're saying it's only good on specific teams? Also, Bisharp would be just as good as ttar would in that scenario..

I was talking about the max hp max attack sand force set, which in sand has a stronger EQ than all of those.
I never implied curse, just regular old EQ/Stone Edge/Ice Fang/Slack off, it isn't a great set but it isn't neccesarily bad either.
I admit Hippowdon only has 2 great sets, the physical wall and the mixed wall, but versatility was never a prerequisite for S, it just helps.


Tyranitar has a diverse movepool, but it just isn't amazing at anything it does, the scarfer is good ( if only it could outspeed zam eh ) and the bander is decent I guess, but that's pretty much where it stops.

As I said before, I only ever use tyranitar if I really need weather and a stop to latios on the same slot, and that's just not S-Rank to me.

And "when you have ttar on your team, they're rarely gonna... blah blah" is pretty contradicting, it doesn't only apply to ttar, it also applies to all known Pursuit trappers. Most steel types fear Magnezone and will probably U-Turning or switching like crazy. See? It applies to all trappers.

I know it applies to all trappers, that's why double switching predicting whatever you want to trap is the best way to go about it, which means being able to take a hit from what you want to trap isn't as important as everyone is making it out to be.

 

[Qualna]

In that scenario, Draco might be the best play, but lol scarflatios. The pursuit is what's being hyped up so much and now you're saying it's only good on specific teams? Also, Bisharp would be just as good as ttar would in that scenario..

I was talking about the max hp max attack sand force set, which in sand has a stronger EQ than all of those.
I never implied curse, just regular old EQ/Stone Edge/Ice Fang/Slack off, it isn't a great set but it isn't neccesarily bad either.
I admit Hippowdon only has 2 great sets, the physical wall and the mixed wall, but versatility was never a prerequisite for S, it just helps.


Tyranitar has a diverse movepool, but it just isn't amazing at anything it does, the scarfer is good ( if only it could outspeed zam eh ) and the bander is decent I guess, but that's pretty much where it stops.

As I said before, I only ever use tyranitar if I really need weather and a stop to latios on the same slot, and that's just not S-Rank to me.





I know it applies to all trappers, that's why double switching predicting whatever you want to trap is the best way to go about it, which means being able to take a hit from what you want to trap isn't as important as everyone is making it out to be.

Aren't you reading properly? You said so many incorrect things(becuuse you aren't reading properly).

"The pursuit is what's being hyped up so much" - I'm here too tell you that Tyranitar is so versatile it isn't only good at Pursuit trapping, if we are talking about Pursuit, I'd go for Weavile, faster than those Psychic types not just Psychic types, but most of the tier as well. And it's attack stat is very impressive too. Weavile is the best Pursuit trapper, bar none. It loses the ability to switch in on non-resisted hits but it's way more efficient than ttar, or any other Pursuit trapper in that regard. Ice STAB is a nice perk among other small but notable perks. But we aren't talking about Weavile here...

Yes, Pursuit is only good for specific teams, if you don't know this, you aren't smart enough. Like Drizzle, it's only good for specific teams, but Drizzle is a team archetype while Pursuit is only a move/a set.

Second, I never really compared it to Bisharp, I just said that Latios is going to be Pursuit trapped and that's it.

Third, how did Hippowdon got sand and an attacking spread? I thought it was used as a physical wall. Hippowdon loses a good chunk of it's bulk when using such silly spread.

"but versitality was never a prerequisite" again, you don't read properly, the description of S Rank is:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

Being the best physical wall is neither versatile nor unpredicatble, in fact, it's expected that Hippowdon is running a Physically Bulky spread. Hippowdon can only perform few roles effectively so it's not S-Rank. Definitely A rank, but not S.

"but it isn't amazing at anything it does" ahahahaha, don't make me laugh, 134 attack isn't amazing? Bahahahahaha! All Pokémon not named Hippowdon and some obscure threats(Metang and Tangela anyone?) are NOT safe from the CBand set. Most physical walls risks 2HKO.

 

[Spinda]

Aren't you reading properly? You said so many incorrect things(becuuse you aren't reading properly).

I am reading properly..

"The pursuit is what's being hyped up so much" - I'm here too tell you that Tyranitar is so versatile it isn't only good at Pursuit trapping, if we are talking about Pursuit, I'd go for Weavile, faster than those Psychic types and it's attack stat is very impressive too. Because Weavile is the best Pursuit trapper, bar none. It loses the ability to switch in on non-resisted hits but it's way more efficient than ttar, or any other Pursuit trapper in that regard. Ice STAB is a nice perk among other small but notable perks.

The majority of people think ttar is good largely because of the pursuit support it can provide. Many people would disagree with you that Weavile is the best pursuit trapper.

Yes, Pursuit is only good for specific teams, if you don't know this, you aren't smart enough. Like Drizzle, it's only good for specific teams, but Drizzle is a team archetype while Pursuit is only a move/a set.

Pursuit is actually quite useful in general, mostly because Latios is just about the biggest threat in the metagame, you don't neccesarily need team mates that lure pursuitable enemies as much as you said. Could you please refrain from questioning someone's intelligence in your arguments, though?

Second, I never really compared it to Bisharp, I just said that Latios is going to be Pursuit trapped and that's it.

Your scenario never gave me any incentive to use tyranitar over anything else though, there's plenty of pursuit trappers and there's plenty of other pokes who could use a -2 scarf latios as setup bait.

Third, how did Hippowdon got sand and an attacking spread? I thought it was used as a physical wall. Hippowdon loses a good chunk of it's bulk when using such silly spread.

It isn't used as a physical wall, it's a tank now. See? It can pull off another role than a physical or mixed wall.

"but versitality was never a prerequisite" again, you don't read properly the description of S Rank is:
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

As I said, it HELPS. S-Ranks aren't in any way required to fulfill all of those. Being able to wall significant portions of the metagame with little support and being able to support other pokemon with little opportunity cost can be plenty regardless of not being as versatile.

Being the best physical wall is neither versatile nor unpredicatble, in fact, it's expected that Hippowdon is running a Physically Bulky spread.

But it could actually be running a specially defensive spread! Hell, it could be banded and 2HKO your ferrothorn as you try to set up on it.

"but it isn't amazing at anything it does" ahahahaha, don't make me laugh, 134 attack isn't amazing? Bahahahahaha! All Pokémon not named Hippowdon and some obscure threats like Tangrowth is safe from the CBand set.

Yet it's too slow to afford having that many weaknesses, and it doesn't really have any good spammable moves ( 80 BP Crunch or 80 Accuracy Stone Edge lol ), don't get me wrong, it's a good set, but it just isn't S-Rank to me.

Jesus christ it took me way too long to fix my fucked up quotes

 

[Qualna]

I am reading properly..



The majority of people think ttar is good largely because of the pursuit support it can provide. Many people would disagree with you that Weavile is the best pursuit trapper.



Pursuit is actually quite useful in general, mostly because Latios is just about the biggest threat in the metagame, you don't neccesarily need team mates that lure pursuitable enemies as much as you said. Could you please refrain from questioning someone's intelligence in your arguments, though?



Your scenario never gave me any incentive to use tyranitar over anything else though, there's plenty of pursuit trappers and there's plenty of other pokes who could use a -2 scarf latios as setup bait.



It isn't used as a physical wall, it's a tank now. See? It can pull off another role than a physical or mixed wall.



As I said, it HELPS. S-Ranks aren't in any way required to fulfill all of those. Being able to wall significant portions of the metagame with little support and being able to support other pokemon with little opportunity cost can be plenty regardless of not being as versatile.



But it could actually be running a specially defensive spread! Hell, it could be banded and 2HKO your ferrothorn as you try to set up on it.



Yet it's too slow to afford having that many weaknesses, and it doesn't really have any good spammable moves ( 80 BP Crunch or 80 Accuracy Stone Edge lol ), don't get me wrong, it's a good set, but it just isn't S-Rank to me.

Jesus christ it took me way too long to fix my fucked up quotes

Idc what other people thinks about Weavile, it's just me.

I'm not even questioning your intelligence, I just said you might not be, there's a difference in that.

Hippodwon is NOT a good tank, why? I'll tell you. It lacks good coverage moves, and while it's so hard to bring down, it can only take down a few Pokémon, because of its low powered coverage moves(except Stone Edge). And tanks usually has the speed to outspeed something at least like this and that, but Hippowdon is so slow it won't be outspeeding anything, except things like Slowbro, Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, all of which deals with Hippowdon quite nicely. Because it's so slow, it is forced to take 2 hits before retaliating back, and while Hippowdon is bulky, a lot of things 2HKO it with that spread, including some Physical attacks too. Thus reducing it's ability to actually switch in.

Tldr: Just because you said it's a good set doesn't NECCESARILY mean it's a good set. It has a "niche" but it's too specific to be really good.

For the millionth time, Pursuit isn't the only thing ttar is good at, quit saying "there's plenty of pursuit trappers..."
Tyranitar has tons of advantages over other Pursuit trappers, that's why it's the most common Pursuit trapper. I'll even list those advantages one by one if I want to(it'll be too long, trust me).

Wrong! S Rank Pokémons needs to be versatile too, whether you agree with it or disagree or whether you like it or not. You can't do anything about it.

If Hippowdon somehow became S Rank, then surely, Ferrothorn is S Rank too because they share many similarities.

"but it isn't S Rank to me" Aha! Just because you think it shouldn't be S Rank doesn't mean it's S Rank worthy, no one cares unless if you really have a good explanation(you don't atm). CBand pokémons should be sent out against Pokémon they fare well, Ttar is no exception. Also, that 80BP Crunch 2HKO most Pokémon, but it does not neccesarily mean that ttar should stay in and go for the kill. CBand is used to punch holes as a hit and run and should be used as such and don't need "spammable moves". CBand is all about prediction and NOT "Click this and win" that's noob mentality there. Clearly, you don't know how to use CBand or CSpecs very well.

You always keep saying that Tyranitar has many weakness, ironically, you once said that Abomasnow is a better weather starter even if it has more weaknesses! I know that grass offers good resistances, don't tell me that. Stop being biased against Tyranitar, it's making you look like that you're a ttar hater. No one listens to haters, no one likes that kind of bias.

"Jesus christ it took me way too long to fix my fucked up quotes" Then, don't do it.

 

[Spinda]

I never said it was a good set, though it isn't bad either and it could certainly catch you off guard..

Anyway, I know it should be sent out against pokemon they fare well against, I'm just saying its weaknesses and lacking speed limit that pool of pokemon by a lot.

You're being condescending, insulting my battling skills ( Clearly, you don't know how to use CBand or CSpecs very well. ), etc. without any real basis.

Also, besides being a defensive pokemon, what exactly are the similarities between hippowdon and ferrothorn?

Oh right they both have a h in their names