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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread
- Thread starter PK Gaming
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dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
Sand Stream is not Tyranitar's only niche. It's a fantastic Pursuit trapper, arguably the best we've got. Said Pursuit support is a big part of the reasoning that got Landorus-I kicked up to Ubers; Tyranitar's Pursuit decimated most of the things that could handle Landorus. Tyranitar also has great walling potential on the special side, can break through a bunch of enemies with a Choice Band set, and can net some interesting kills as a Scarfer.
Basically, Tyranitar is quite versatile and is probably the best Pursuit trapper we have. I'm not sold on dropping it yet.
Basically, Tyranitar is quite versatile and is probably the best Pursuit trapper we have. I'm not sold on dropping it yet.
Stone RG
Megas are broke
Oh well, on the mean the keldeo discussion seems to be dead, and im not on either sid eon tyranitar one, im nominating Gliscor to B or B- tier.
While Gliscor IS kind ofan asshole seemingly hard to deal with, its most popular set lacks walling potential due to the standard speed investment and is only used for annoying purposes, and if youre running a more defensive spread then a lot of important offensive threats can come in and gain momentum easily, for example rotom w and Landorus T. Even though when it gets a sub up it becomes 10x times more annoying, given our offensive and speedy meta, getting it will be harder than it seems most of the time, not to mention that, its so-called niche at taking on most physically offensive pokes, specially fighting types, is taken by outr premier go-to offensive pivot, aka Landorus T. Im not that convince don B-, since it isnt that close to be shamely outclassed and a liability as chansey or sableye, but i dont think useful for anything else than try to stall out an entire team that can work around it pretty easily most of the time.
While Gliscor IS kind of
-Main STAB is completely neutered by Rain (even Special Defensive Celebi and Jirachi can set up on Heatran under Rain if it lacks Roar...)
-The Pokemon that wall Heatran (out of Sun) are incredibly numerous
-The Pokemon that could be considered good Heatran checks make up a tremendous percent of the metagame. Out of the 31 A-S ranked Pokemon on this list, 16 of them are SOLID Heatran checks. And that's not even including Pokes who can't switch in, but who will easily defeat Heatran 1 on 1, including Mamoswine, Lando-T, Hippowdon, and Breloom.
-Compare this to the number of A-S ranked Pokes who Heatran is typically used to check: 8 (and these include Pokemon who CAN beat Heatran with ease using the right set, including Venusaur and Volcarona)
-The result is that almost no team has to specifically prepare for Heatran-- Heatran checks find themselves on teams regardless.
It's a Pokemon that's easy to prepare for, can't wall a majority of the meta (but rather used to cause trouble for specific threats), and can't sweep a majority of the metagame either. Its 3 weaknesses are found on almost every offensive Pokemon in OU. Out of the same 31 A-S ranked Pokemon, only 7 Pokemon rarely carry Ground, Fighting, or Water attacks (and this includes Jirachi who can run Water Pulse, and Venuaur and Volc who can both also run Ground attacks).
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Nominating Skarmory for A+
I believe Skarmory has all the necessary traits to qualify for A+.
As a HO lead, it can easily set up rocks and at LEAST one layer of spikes(although in my experience two is the average number of layers I can get) and STAB Brave Bird hits a lot of common leads in this meta hard.
As a defensive pivot, Skarmory walls a majority of the meta and can easily phaze out most set-up sweepers. It can also function on a multitude of teams, from sand stall to HO to even RAIN stall(which makes sense because it covers Skarmory's fire-type weaknesses).
Overall, Skarmory is simply too good not to be A+: it almost always succeeds in it's role and has great defensive synergy on the whole.
I believe Skarmory has all the necessary traits to qualify for A+.
As a HO lead, it can easily set up rocks and at LEAST one layer of spikes(although in my experience two is the average number of layers I can get) and STAB Brave Bird hits a lot of common leads in this meta hard.
As a defensive pivot, Skarmory walls a majority of the meta and can easily phaze out most set-up sweepers. It can also function on a multitude of teams, from sand stall to HO to even RAIN stall(which makes sense because it covers Skarmory's fire-type weaknesses).
Overall, Skarmory is simply too good not to be A+: it almost always succeeds in it's role and has great defensive synergy on the whole.
I kinda agree, I do think it is the best hazards setter to date. However, it has a few fatal flaws. It's vulnerable to trick/taunt, most attacks at it are fire attacks, some of which can burn, and this could easily OHKO through sturdy. It has similar problems to be forretress, really. This is why I actually think donphan is completely underestimated on Sun, it's better than foretress imo. (I know how much people are gonna call me a noob for saying that about donphan. )
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Yeah, he's talking about STALL, which will bring in its hazard setters on something it can threaten. Those rocks are definitely going up, and if the person playing the stall team is good, those hazards are DEFINITELY going up.
OiawesomeDG
The problem with Garchomp, tbh, stems from its STABs. While it has an excellent STAB combo, both of them have very exploitable drawbacks. First off, Outrage locks you in, so setup sweeping garchomp can function only with good prediction against something like ground- immunity and steel-type(for example, rotom w and jirachi), and it CANNOT judt play around it due to fear of being locked in. While it's not as much of a problem on choice sets, Earthquake is, due to the ubiquity of Ground-immunities, and you need to hit steels with it, so too much prediction.
I'm kind of iffy on garchomp for S-rank.
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Is there anything Tyranitar can do better than other pokemon other than pursuit trapping?Look at the following carefully:
How can it sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame?If Tyranitar had like 110 speed or something with the Special Defense and attacking stats it currently has,I would say it is a definite S ranker.But it has terrible speed for an offensive pokemon.You may think that that is forgivable since it has quite nice bulk in Sandstorm,and that means Tyranitar can kind of be a bulky attacker,but it's weaknesses holds it back from being a good one.Of Politoed,Hippowdon,and Tyranitar,its obvious that Tyranitar always dies the fastest,even though it has better bulk than Politoed.I cannot stress this enough;it's defensive typing holds it back from being the bulky attacker it has always wanted to be.
Lets talk about the sets it runs:Mixed,Band,Scarf and Sp.Def.In my opinion,it's Mixed set is the least outclassed one out there,and it attains powerful coverage and becomes near-uncounterable,especially since Tyranitar's common checks,Lando-T and Hippowdon,get hit pretty hard with Ice Beam.The only reason you'd use the Band set is because it lets you OHKO Ninetales when burned,gives you a powerful pursuit to trap things,and do good damage to Politoed and like 40%~ to Hippowdon,and is the third most useful set in my opinion.Really,other than these things,you have absolutely no reason to use this thing over Terrakion.The second most useful is the scarf set,and it's main use is to get off a Crunch on things like Latios and Celebi who think they can 2HKO you as you switch in or Baton Pass away safely respectively.It's defensive set is horrible IMO.Once again,it's defensive typing is so horrible that EVERY OFFENSIVE THREAT IN OU HAS A SUPER EFFECTIVE MOVE AGAINST IT.It's main niche is to avoid the 2HKO from Specs Latios,which it can't OHKO with Pursuit (not even close).
TYRANITAR FOR A+.
At the end of the day,the only reason you would use it is because of Sand Stream and Pursuit.Other than that,it's completely outclassed by Terrakion.Don't kid yourself,once the Sand is up,and Pursuiting is done,Tyranitar becomes total death fodder.And if it's Pursuit didn't clear way for huge threats such as Keldeo and Landorus-I,I would consider it to drop from even A+,below Hippowdon,and into A-.
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
S-rank: "Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability."
Tyranitar fits that criterion. Now, look at the weather support as well. As far as support goes, Tyranitar works quite well - sand is the only thing that keeps rain from completely dominating the ladder, and Pursuit IS a big deal. Tyranitar is actually seldom death fodder once the weather war is won - barring Speed, all its stats are better than Politoed's, and the variety of different sets it can effectively run makes it a major threat. If an otherwise terrible Pokemon like Politoed can be ranked S due to the huge effect of the weather support it gives, then a Pokemon that gives weather support of comparable effectiveness (plus Pursuit and potentially Stealth Rock), has better stats, and is more versatile also deserves to be S-ranked. Sure, it's got common weaknesses; the benefits that Tyranitar brings to the table outweigh the risk of using it.
Tyranitar fits that criterion. Now, look at the weather support as well. As far as support goes, Tyranitar works quite well - sand is the only thing that keeps rain from completely dominating the ladder, and Pursuit IS a big deal. Tyranitar is actually seldom death fodder once the weather war is won - barring Speed, all its stats are better than Politoed's, and the variety of different sets it can effectively run makes it a major threat. If an otherwise terrible Pokemon like Politoed can be ranked S due to the huge effect of the weather support it gives, then a Pokemon that gives weather support of comparable effectiveness (plus Pursuit and potentially Stealth Rock), has better stats, and is more versatile also deserves to be S-ranked. Sure, it's got common weaknesses; the benefits that Tyranitar brings to the table outweigh the risk of using it.
Being the best Pursuit Trapper (really imo, the only one who's reliable at all...) + bringing one of the best weather effects in the game should be more than enough really...
You mean that ridiculously trolly Speed that lets it get past uninvested Scizor and one shot it with Fire Blast with a tiny bit of investment if it feels like it? The same trolly Speed that just jumps over Starmie when Jolly 252 Scarf-- allowing it to outspeed and kill all its major targets with ease? Not to mention Smash through most of the tier's Speed, non-scarfed threats?
I would totally disagree. Tyranitar's monster bulk takes on even super effective special attacks and brings down key enemy threats like Latios, Latias, and Starmie with such reliability-- I almost feel like it's broken at times. The fact that it can switch into these top threats and bring them down almost irregardless of anything they do almost seems ridiculous. The fact that it actually has the advantage against Pokemon like Tentacruel and Celebi, who are faster and have super effective STAB attacks, is incredible in my book.
Leftovers Tyranitar can be a real challenge to bring down, if the opponent doesn't want to let you bring it down. Its bulk ensures lots of switch in opportunities, and forces many enemies out. Pursuit lets it securely take down key members of your team. SR gives it another way to steadily and securely achieve greater advantage-- plus the fact that TTar beats both Starmie and Forretress 1 on 1. I'll give you Hippowdon (who's almost just a sitting blob with little offensive menace on most teams), but Politoed definitely does not have more survival power than TTar.
^This paragraph is as indecipherable as it is unconvincing-- totally lacking in clear logic and support.
Also, did you even pay attention to this part:
Yeah. That speaks for itself.
No.
At the end of the day, Tyranitar brings with it one of the most dominant and influential weathers (while being the BEST weather producer stat and movepool-wise), and Pursuit-kills very important enemies with an almost unfair degree of ease and reliability. The Sand it brings can make a Terrakion paired with it an incredible menace. Once Tyranitar has broken all your opponent's sashes and multiscales, Pursuited key threats and giving teammates a clear opportunity to sweep, all while reliably setting up SR and fucking over the most common Spinners trying to get rid of it, and throwing Ferrothorn or Scizor the odd Fire Blast to the face-- it still makes for some decent death fodder; robbing your enemy of their valuable weather and racking up some nice SS damage one last time.
Awesome power. Awesome Bulk. Awesome support. INSANE trapper. Tyranitar shapes the whole tier, and there's a reason why it's #2 on the Top Ten Titans List.
S Rank
I was talking about stall too.. You're severely overestimating how hard it is to prevent hazards with offensive pressure vs stall
Lets take sandstall for example. Hippo switches in first turn, HOW are you going to prevent thise hazards? Because most teams are fucked as soon as they go on the field. I could give many more examples, such as lando t, heatran, etc that can easily set up rocks against sun.
I use a taunt lead.. And your main gameplan is not giving their hazard setters an opportunity to switch in when you play no spinner sun..
The only real troubling SR setter is lead aero, though if you're willing to run sableye or scarf mamo you could remedy even that
Preventing hazards is EASIER against stall because their hazard setters are typically easier to identify
Taunt leads only lead lol. They do not stay throughout the match, and the aforementioned setters are quite bulky, so they can take many hits. The second the lead is dead, rocks can and will get up.
Edit-im done arguing, tired :c
>tyranitar for A+
that means Politoed should also be A+. It can only spam Hydro Pump or go on the defensive route with moves like Encore. Tyranitar can only pursuit trap or set up stealth rock.
that means Politoed should also be A+. It can only spam Hydro Pump or go on the defensive route with moves like Encore. Tyranitar can only pursuit trap or set up stealth rock.
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You identify their hazard setters at team preview and make sure they never get an opportunity to get in on something that can't 2HKO it,
Especially if its a fucking stall team, when they sack a poke just to get rocks up, you're in a good situation.
You have 1 or 2 taunters which may or may not be designed as dedicated leads ( which doesn't mean you have to sack it if you can prevent rocks going up ) as a backup for a double switch just incase you're forced in a scenario where you can't KO a hazard setter you're predicting to switch in.
Putting this out there from page 148.
I have honestly no idea why someone would even suggest Tyranitar being moved down. If S rank had divisions Tyranitar would probably be S+ rank, it is the flagship Pokemon of the playstyle that rivals Rain Offense for best in the game. Tyranitar was arguably part of the reason Landorus was banned and Keldeo was tested, because his Pursuit support hit so hard against so many things that Keldeo and Landorus can just have a field day. These points alone should be enough to keep him in S rank.
magic123 Your whole post is just a what. I don't see any point in it (are you seriously comparing Tyranitar to Terrakion? They don't even have similar roles) and the only thing I could reasonably understand was that lots of pokemon have moves super effective against Tyranitar. In that case, Spiritomb and Sableye should be the only Pokemon allowed in S rank, right? The reason people run certain coverage moves over others is for threats like Tyranitar. Psychic types run fighting type coverage because they're terrified of dark types, Volcarona runs Giga Drain and Heatran uses HP Electric or Grass on attacking sets because they don't like water types, and electric types run HP Ice because they don't like ground types. People run coverage moves to be prepared against what they need to prepare for.
People need to calm down. I suggest Keldeo get knocked down half a tier and now people are saying T-tar AND Politoed should be, too. I stand by my statement on Keldeo (I was the first person to bring up how it should be S-Rank about 123 pages ago since it was a suspect and people shunned me for it) but Politoed should never be in the discussion of being A+. Tyranitar is a great pokemon who has a ton of effective sets. It can definitely sweep a large portion of the metagame whether it be with a Scarf or a DD set. It can wall a shit ton of pokes even with all those weaknesses; just calc a specs DM from Latios on a SpD T-tar. That 4X weakness to fighting is a pain but that can be remedied by a Chople Berry. The support it gives teams with Pursuit and Sand is unmatched and should not be underestimated. Without that support, people would have to use Hippowdon, who may be a great physical wall but is very one dimensional. Tyranitar literally keeps the two suspect-worthy weathers in check simply by existing, otherwise Politoed would see something like 30% usage. Keep Tyranitar and Politoed S-rank.
You need Politoed for rain, sand still has hippo, which is honestly just a lot better even on offensive teams right now
And I'd argue spamming hydro pump is more useful than what ttar does
Fuck ol' reliable.
*prepares for the flame*
If you don't consider sandstream, it's a subpar OU pokemon, Sand stream makes it a lot better, but not enough to be S. It's versatile but it's not actually amazing at anything, it's best set is scarftar which works great on a wide variety of teams, and while it's a cool pursuit trapper and revenger, it doesn't outspeed things like Dugtrio and Alakazam which it really, REALLY wants to, all of its qualities combined makes it a solid A+ tier pokemon, but I honestly don't think it ever deserved S, not even in the landkeldtar metagame
Hippowdon however walls a significant portion of the metagame while also being able to provide SR and sand, and its a lot more capable of staying alive and winning the weather war especially since dugtrio isn't killing it anytime soon, I could see it being S :)
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Nominating Abomasnow for A- rank
With his ability he can easily remove the other three weathers and neuter tons of weather-reliant Pokemon ( Starmie, Keldeo, Volcarona, Tentacruel, Venusaur, Sawsbuck, Cresselia, Lilligant, Tornadus etc.). Not only that but he can also beat politoed, tyranitar and hippowdon with his stabs. That is huge. Then you can pair Abomasnow with an eb keldeo knowing hail (to beat Ninetales) and you're in business.
Also, Abomasnow has good attacking stats and wide coverage in Wood Hammer, Hidden Power Fire, Earthquake and Blizzard, but most importantly Ice Shard. He can use that priority move to remove some dragons from the match (Weakened lati@s, mence, nite (with SR) and chomp), tornadus, thundurus-t and landorus-t. He can also use a very annoying SubSeed set.
Hail is extremely underrated, too. Kyurem is a frightening hail abuser (especially the Scarf set) since it can now use Blizzard, while Walrein can stall opponents ad infinitum with ice body and its natural bulk. Hail also negates Leftovers unless the holder is an ice-type (and the only one that could use lefties would be kyurem-b).
With his ability he can easily remove the other three weathers and neuter tons of weather-reliant Pokemon ( Starmie, Keldeo, Volcarona, Tentacruel, Venusaur, Sawsbuck, Cresselia, Lilligant, Tornadus etc.). Not only that but he can also beat politoed, tyranitar and hippowdon with his stabs. That is huge. Then you can pair Abomasnow with an eb keldeo knowing hail (to beat Ninetales) and you're in business.
Also, Abomasnow has good attacking stats and wide coverage in Wood Hammer, Hidden Power Fire, Earthquake and Blizzard, but most importantly Ice Shard. He can use that priority move to remove some dragons from the match (Weakened lati@s, mence, nite (with SR) and chomp), tornadus, thundurus-t and landorus-t. He can also use a very annoying SubSeed set.
Hail is extremely underrated, too. Kyurem is a frightening hail abuser (especially the Scarf set) since it can now use Blizzard, while Walrein can stall opponents ad infinitum with ice body and its natural bulk. Hail also negates Leftovers unless the holder is an ice-type (and the only one that could use lefties would be kyurem-b).
Debatable. Subjective.
/js
Abomasnow is an anti-meta pokemon and can indeed mess up the other weather inducers, but I don't think he's good enough for A- rank. He easily has THE worst defensive typing out of all the weather inducers. Ice may make for a nice offensive STAB, but it comes with a ton of weaknesses. While he does have the STAB to beat some of the other weather inducers, he's only faster than Hippowodon. Tyranitar (who has 1 base speed higher) can easily OHKO Abomasnow. Ninetales too can easily beat Abomasnow. A choice specs Politoed can OHKO Abomasnow with focus blast as well. Assuming Abomasnow isn't scarfed or something, he can really only reliably take on Hippowdon, who probably wouldn't even stay in.Nominating Abomasnow for A- rank
With his ability he can easily remove the other three weathers and neuter tons of weather-reliant Pokemon ( Starmie, Keldeo, Volcarona, Tentacruel, Venusaur, Sawsbuck, Cresselia, Lilligant, Tornadus etc.). Not only that but he can also beat politoed, tyranitar and hippowdon with his stabs. That is huge. Then you can pair Abomasnow with an eb keldeo knowing hail (to beat Ninetales) and you're in business.
Also, Abomasnow has good attacking stats and wide coverage in Wood Hammer, Hidden Power Fire, Earthquake and Blizzard, but most importantly Ice Shard. He can use that priority move to remove some dragons from the match (Weakened lati@s, mence, nite (with SR) and chomp), tornadus, thundurus-t and landorus-t. He can also use a very annoying SubSeed set.
Hail is extremely underrated, too. Kyurem is a frightening hail abuser (especially the Scarf set) since it can now use Blizzard, while Walrein can stall opponents ad infinitum with ice body and its natural bulk. Hail also negates Leftovers unless the holder is an ice-type (and the only one that could use lefties would be kyurem-b).
Any weather inducing pokemon can screw over opposing weather-reliant pokemon, Abomasnow just so happens to have a weather that very few pokemon can benefit from. This is a double edged sword and I'd even argue that would make Hail the least useful weather. Kyurem and Walrein might be scary under hail, but pretty much any pokemon under their preferred weather is scary. I'd say a Venasaur under sun is considerably more scary than any pokemon under hail.
Abomasnow has a good move pool, but he's plagued by middling stats, none of which exceeds 92 and a horrible defensive typing. His low speed means that 3 out of the 4 OU weather starters can be very threatening to Abomasnow unless he's packing a choice scarf. His weather provides the least amount of benefits to his team. He's generally a frail pokemon, his 90/75/85 defenses aren't so bad but his weakness to fighting, rock (which includes the most popular entry hazard), steel, fire, bug, flying, and poison decrease his survivability by a whole lot. He has 7 whooping weaknesses for like.... 4 resistances (water, electric, grass and ground). While water and ground attacks are common, his weaknesses still far surpass his resistances.
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