Does this behavior where it visually appears to be forme 0 of the Pokémon it transforms into apply to Pokémon with multiple forms other than Zacian/Zamazenta, like Keldeo or Xerneas?
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Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
How does Steel Roller interact with Substitute? I'm asking that because while laddering on Pokemon Showdown, Steel Roller breaks a substitute when a terrain's up but the terrain remains intact, I get the feeling that this isn't correct but I found no information about it.
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I tested a few:
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into Keldeo-1 (Resolute): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Keldeo-0 (Ordinary)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into Necrozma-1 (Dusk Mane): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Necrozma-0 (regular) (still displays Steel/Psychic in Y-info, resists Steel, takes super-effective damage from Fire and Ground-type attacks)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into Xerneas-1 (Active): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Xerneas-1 (Active)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into Cramorant-2 (Gorging): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Cramorant-0 (regular). If the opponent damages Eternatus-Cramorant, it doesn't attempt to spit out a catch.
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into Pikachu-2 (Hoeen hat Pikachu): visually transforms into G-Max Pikachu (despite the Pikachu itself not having the Gigantamax factor)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into Pikachu-6 (Alola hat Pikachu): visually transforms into G-Max Pikachu (despite the Pikachu itself not having the Gigantamax factor)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into a Darmanitan-2 (Galarian Darmanitan Zen Mode): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Darmanitan-0 (Unovan Standard Mode)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into a Darm-2 that underwent Zen Mode naturally to become Darmanitan-3 (Galarian Darmanitan Zen Mode): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Darmanitan-0 (Unovan Standard Mode)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into a Gastrodon-1 (East Sea): visually transforms into a Dynamaxed Gastrodon-0 (West Sea)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into a Urshifu-1 with the Gigantamax factor (Rapid Strike): visually transforms into a G-Max Urshifu-1 (G-Max Rapid Strike)
- Eternatus-1 Transforming into a Urshifu-1 (Rapid Strike): visually transforms into a G-Max Urshifu-1 (G-Max Rapid Strike)
Both failing to break a Substitute and successfully breaking a Substitute results in Steel Roller removing the active Terrain. In the latter case, the Substitute fades before Terrain is removed.
There's a clear pattern here, but I still gotta ask about Urshifu-0 as a Transform target. A single species having 2 Gigantamax forms could affect the result.
Just as with Rapid Strike, it turns into the G-Max model of Single Strike regardless of whether Urshifu has G-Max factor or not.
I also went back and checked for Eternatus-1 Transforming into a regular Charizard with no G-Max factor, and it turns into a G-Max Charizard visually no matter what.
Previous research told us that Lash Out (McCoolDude), Rising Voltage (Marty), and Grav Apple (Anubis) affected base power, but it was never known exactly if they were "moves with custom base power" (e.g. Water Spout, Gyro Ball, Acrobatics) or just plain old base power modifiers (e.g. Facade, Brine, Knock Off). There isn't a huge difference between these two from a practical standpoint, other than occasionally influencing damage calcs by slightly changing base power values. In the past, the easiest way to test this in the past was with the Rollout Storage glitch. However, Rollout Storage was patched before anyone got around to checking these three (I did check for Expanding Force and Misty Explosion as well as Fishious Rend).
Thanks to a ton of help from Yoda2798, I have generated scenarios that let me determine the following:
Thanks to a ton of help from Yoda2798, I have generated scenarios that let me determine the following:
- Rising Voltage is a move with custom base power, which is unlike Expanding Force and Misty Explosion.
- Lash Out is a base power modifier.
- Grav Apple is a base power modifier.
Consider Rising Voltage into a grounded target in Electric Terrain; the user is grounded and benefits from Electric Terrain, and the user has Rivalry with the same gender as the target.
If Rising Voltage was a move with custom base power:
Start with 140 BP.
Chain Electric Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 6656
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(140 * 6656 / 4096) = pokeRound(227.5) = 227 BP
If Rising Voltage was an 8192 base power modifier:
Start with 70 BP.
Chain Rising Voltage (8192) -> Electric Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 13313
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(70 * 13313 / 4096) = pokeRound(227.51708984375) = 228 BP
Take attacker Pincurchin, level 100, 309 Special Attack, into defender Chansey with 246 Special Defense.
Damage rolls with 227 BP:
306, 310, 313, 318, 321, 324, 328, 331, 336, 339, 342, 346, 349, 354, 357, 361
Damage rolls with 228 BP:
307, 312, 315, 318, 322, 325, 330, 333, 337, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355, 358, 363
Actual rolls on cartridge: 306, 313, 318, 328, 336, 339, 342, 357
Conclusion: Rising Voltage was using 227 BP, only possible as a move with custom base power.
If Rising Voltage was a move with custom base power:
Start with 140 BP.
Chain Electric Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 6656
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(140 * 6656 / 4096) = pokeRound(227.5) = 227 BP
If Rising Voltage was an 8192 base power modifier:
Start with 70 BP.
Chain Rising Voltage (8192) -> Electric Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 13313
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(70 * 13313 / 4096) = pokeRound(227.51708984375) = 228 BP
Take attacker Pincurchin, level 100, 309 Special Attack, into defender Chansey with 246 Special Defense.
Damage rolls with 227 BP:
306, 310, 313, 318, 321, 324, 328, 331, 336, 339, 342, 346, 349, 354, 357, 361
Damage rolls with 228 BP:
307, 312, 315, 318, 322, 325, 330, 333, 337, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355, 358, 363
Actual rolls on cartridge: 306, 313, 318, 328, 336, 339, 342, 357
Conclusion: Rising Voltage was using 227 BP, only possible as a move with custom base power.
Consider Lash Out with the user's stats having been lowered; the user is boosted by a faster Power Spot ally, has Rivalry with the same gender as the target, and is holding Black Glasses.
If Lash Out was a move with custom base power:
Start with 150 BP.
Chain Power Spot (5325) -> Rivalry (5120) -> Black Glasses (4915): 7987
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(150 * 7987 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.49267578125) = 292 BP
If Lash Out was an 8192 base power modifier:
Start with 75 BP.
Chain Lash Out (8192) -> Power Spot (5325) -> Rivalry (5120) -> Black Glasses (4915): 15975
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(75 * 15975 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.510986328125) = 293 BP
Take attacker Bisharp, level 100, 350 Attack, into defender Lapras with 284 Defense.
Damage rolls with 292 BP:
387, 391, 396, 400, 405, 409, 414, 418, 423, 427, 432, 436, 441, 445, 450, 456
Damage rolls with 293 BP:
388, 393, 397, 402, 406, 411, 415, 420, 424, 429, 433, 438, 442, 447, 451, 457
Actual rolls on cartridge: 397, 411, 420, 433, 438
Conclusion: Lash Out was using 293 BP, only possible as a base power modifier.
If Lash Out was a move with custom base power:
Start with 150 BP.
Chain Power Spot (5325) -> Rivalry (5120) -> Black Glasses (4915): 7987
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(150 * 7987 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.49267578125) = 292 BP
If Lash Out was an 8192 base power modifier:
Start with 75 BP.
Chain Lash Out (8192) -> Power Spot (5325) -> Rivalry (5120) -> Black Glasses (4915): 15975
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(75 * 15975 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.510986328125) = 293 BP
Take attacker Bisharp, level 100, 350 Attack, into defender Lapras with 284 Defense.
Damage rolls with 292 BP:
387, 391, 396, 400, 405, 409, 414, 418, 423, 427, 432, 436, 441, 445, 450, 456
Damage rolls with 293 BP:
388, 393, 397, 402, 406, 411, 415, 420, 424, 429, 433, 438, 442, 447, 451, 457
Actual rolls on cartridge: 397, 411, 420, 433, 438
Conclusion: Lash Out was using 293 BP, only possible as a base power modifier.
Consider Grav Apple with Gravity active on the field; the user is boosted by Helping Hand, Grassy Terrain, and has Rivalry with the same gender as the target.
If Grav Apple was a move with custom base power:
Start with 120 BP.
Chain Helping Hand (6144) -> Grassy Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 9985
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(120 * 9985 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.529296875) = 293 BP
If Grav Apple was an 6144 base power modifier:
Start with 80 BP.
Chain Helping Hand (6144) -> Grav Apple (6144) -> Grassy Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 14976
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(80 * 14976 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.5) = 292 BP
Take attacker Flapple, level 100, 350 Attack, into defender Psychic-type Lapras with 284 Defense.
Damage rolls with 293 BP:
388, 393, 397, 402, 406, 411, 415, 420, 424, 429, 433, 438, 442, 447, 451, 457
Damage rolls with 292 BP:
387, 391, 396, 400, 405, 409, 414, 418, 423, 427, 432, 436, 441, 445, 450, 456
Actual rolls on cartridge: 409
Conclusion: Grav Apple was using 292 BP, only possible as a base power modifier.
If Grav Apple was a move with custom base power:
Start with 120 BP.
Chain Helping Hand (6144) -> Grassy Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 9985
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(120 * 9985 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.529296875) = 293 BP
If Grav Apple was an 6144 base power modifier:
Start with 80 BP.
Chain Helping Hand (6144) -> Grav Apple (6144) -> Grassy Terrain (5325) -> Rivalry (5120): 14976
Apply chained modifier - pokeRound(80 * 14976 / 4096) = pokeRound(292.5) = 292 BP
Take attacker Flapple, level 100, 350 Attack, into defender Psychic-type Lapras with 284 Defense.
Damage rolls with 293 BP:
388, 393, 397, 402, 406, 411, 415, 420, 424, 429, 433, 438, 442, 447, 451, 457
Damage rolls with 292 BP:
387, 391, 396, 400, 405, 409, 414, 418, 423, 427, 432, 436, 441, 445, 450, 456
Actual rolls on cartridge: 409
Conclusion: Grav Apple was using 292 BP, only possible as a base power modifier.
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If a pokemon with flash fire gets hit by a fire move, and then loses its ability somehow (skill swap, worry seed...), will its fire moves still have a 1.5x boost from flash fire?
I have a question that seems to vaguely hint yes, but mostly on somewhat questionable sources. Would also be curious on if it is programmed in such a matter (Kris maybe?)
Per Bulbapedia, Serene Grace says that King's Rock and Razor Fang stack with the ability. Related to the King's Rock thread, I think this would be something worth testing on cartridge - especially if there is some whack interaction not implemented properly on Showdown.
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Serene_Grace_(Ability)
So is it:
- 10% (as intended)
- 20% (doubled chance as stated by Bulbapedia)
Marty edit: Yes, it is implemented properly.
Per Bulbapedia, Serene Grace says that King's Rock and Razor Fang stack with the ability. Related to the King's Rock thread, I think this would be something worth testing on cartridge - especially if there is some whack interaction not implemented properly on Showdown.
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Serene_Grace_(Ability)
So is it:
- 10% (as intended)
- 20% (doubled chance as stated by Bulbapedia)
Marty edit: Yes, it is implemented properly.
If this hasn't changed between gens then the answer should be yes.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...attle-mechanics-research.3586701/post-7467954
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...attle-mechanics-research.3586701/post-7468346
Verifying that it does double. From my notes, as of USUM (but probably since BW), here's the process for how flinches work:
- Lookup the base flinch chance of the move.
- If the move is Sheer Force and the base flinch chance of the move > 0, stop early; the move cannot flinch (something like Sheer Force + Rock Slide + King's Rock cannot flinch, but Sheer Force + Flare Blitz + King's Rock could flinch)
- If the base flinch chance of the move isn't already greater than 0, and King's Rock, Razor Fang, or Stench can be applied, set the flinch chance to 10.
- If Pledge Rainbow or Serene Grace is present, double the flinch chance.
- If the target was preparing a Focus Punch, set the "lost focus" flag. Else:
- Check if the target had Inner Focus or Shield Dust. Else:
- If the percent is greater than 0, make an RNG call to determine if the move should flinch.
- If the move was determined to flinch, set the "will flinch" flag.
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If Amoonguss actually knocked out the opponent's final Pokemon, then no, it's not possible - the game would end, so the end-of-turn effects wouldn't happen, so the Perish counter couldn't decrease. The other person probably didn't actually KO the opponent's final Pokemon. You'd need some cartridge footage to show where the mistake is.
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We're testing Eiscue in Pure Hackmons (due to Ice Face ignoring Neutralizing Gas, Eiscue tanking every single OHKO move at least once, and Eiscue-Noice speed tying with Eternamax) - did we ever get an answer to which of Eiscue's Substitute, Ice Face, or both breaks when it gets hit by a physical move while it has a Sub up?
Hi.
If it's not too much trouble, can I get some footage of a few ability interactions in SwSh?
Namely:
-A user's Neutralizing Gas and an opponent's Intimidate when the former switches out
-A user's Unnerve when they switch out while the opponent is poisoned and holding a Pecha Berry (or any other status/berry combo).
I need to see these exact situations in order to implement them properly in a project
Thanks in advance!
If it's not too much trouble, can I get some footage of a few ability interactions in SwSh?
Namely:
-A user's Neutralizing Gas and an opponent's Intimidate when the former switches out
-A user's Unnerve when they switch out while the opponent is poisoned and holding a Pecha Berry (or any other status/berry combo).
I need to see these exact situations in order to implement them properly in a project
Thanks in advance!
Thank you very much, this is going to be super helpful!
Say, did you by chance check the behavior of Neutralizing Gas and an opponent's Intimidate in single battles too?
I suppose it shouldn't activate since the effect in doubles is happening inbetween the switching out of the Pokémon with Neutralizing Gas and the switching in of the new one, but it would be nice to confirm it.
And was the attack stat of Regieleki actually reduced?
Like, if you were to switch it back in, does the battle stats screen show Regieleki's attack reduced?
I was under the impression that the stat stages of a Pokémon were cleared when it's switched out.
Also, I hope I'm not bothering you too much with these super specific tests.
Sorry in advance, just in case.
No (double checked but didn't record a video because I'm lazy)
Correct
No worries at all, happy to help
I made the assumption that you meant target's Defense. It sure doesn't.Hey! It's me! Again!
Quick question, does Gulp Missile's Gulping effect where the attacker's defense is decreased by 1 stage affect Pokémon with Clear Body or not?
Well, does it apply before or after? Let's say Nihilego Vs. AV AMuk, does it get the 1.5 Boost to what is now its Def stat, or does it get the new SpDef stat boosted?
Body Press isn't boosted by Assault Vest in Wonder Room, and Assault Vest still increases only Special Defense in Wonder Room.