I've had some success with Arceus-Poison. A set of Cosmic Power with Stored Power and Body Press can shut down Sneasler hard, can heavily punish Rillaboom if they let you setup on Sneasler, and can function as a good win condition that some teams just can't deal with
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Metagame SV Ubers UU Metagame Discussion (Lunala and Arc-Ghost, and Shaymin-Sky are Banned)
- Thread starter KineSquared
- Start date
i've personally had the most success with poisonceus and fluffy houndstone. for stuff that's been banned from ou you can also look through whatever anti-ban arguments there are in the ou forum to see what people were bringing up as checks, but i don't recall there being many anti-ban arguments against sneasler, so this might not work if you're looking for sneasler answers specifically
Update for all the reactors: in a swift act of justice, perhaps divined by Arceus Himself, all Arceus formes now show as "Arceus" in game, no matter what you nickname it. Just wanted to clear the air.
additional edit: It just prevents the false naming, not any other fun nicknames. Don't use the pokelord's name in vain, y'all
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it's done that for a while, but you can just use unicode letters that look exactly like real letters and it'll still display. like, you can't nickname your arceus-fire "Arceus-Fighting", but you can nickname it "Аrсеuѕ-Fіghtіng". that second one looks exactly the same but it's different because unicode magic. go ahead and try it out, copy-paste it and it'll work. it's quite simple to impersonate god if you're clever about it
I see. So in my haste to deceive low-ladder players for easy wins, I forgot the level of black magic necessary to impersonate pokegod.
EDIT: So this isn't an essentially meaningless one-liner, I am a big fan of Scarf Landorus and Scarf Greninja in the current metagame and will be writing longer-form posts on each of these two including all of their potential sets.
my personal review of the meta so far:
i'm having a lot of fun playing this. arceus forms are a massive offensive and defensive presence, as i expected, but no single form seems particularly centralizing because they all exist in the same meta as each other—i've seen fire and fighting the most, but i also see a substantial amount of poison, some psychic, and one rock (on a sand team, obviously). even though last respects exists, endgames are somehow a lot more varied here than in the kingambitfest that is ou. i do think it would still be prudent to keep an eye on last respects as a move, but there's some potential counterplay i'm interested in exploring—i haven't tested these out yet, but ursaluna-bloodmoon should handily 1v1 even the trick sets if played correctly, and hisuian zoroark should make it think twice about clicking last respects no matter what mon is on the field—and houndstone provides a lot of defensive utility to the tier so i think it's worth keeping around a bit longer before making a decision. zacian is pretty worrisome right now, though; i think it's just plain too fast and too strong for this tier and the counterplay against it is just not consistent enough at beating it. overall, even though i'm still in the "throw these things on a team and see if it works" phase of the tier, i've been having a lot more fun than i have playing ou for most of this gen
my biggest hope for the future is that gira-a drops down here so i can use this pressure + spite set i've been cooking up since gen 6. everyone's out here running a bunch of big strong 8-pp moves…
i'm having a lot of fun playing this. arceus forms are a massive offensive and defensive presence, as i expected, but no single form seems particularly centralizing because they all exist in the same meta as each other—i've seen fire and fighting the most, but i also see a substantial amount of poison, some psychic, and one rock (on a sand team, obviously). even though last respects exists, endgames are somehow a lot more varied here than in the kingambitfest that is ou. i do think it would still be prudent to keep an eye on last respects as a move, but there's some potential counterplay i'm interested in exploring—i haven't tested these out yet, but ursaluna-bloodmoon should handily 1v1 even the trick sets if played correctly, and hisuian zoroark should make it think twice about clicking last respects no matter what mon is on the field—and houndstone provides a lot of defensive utility to the tier so i think it's worth keeping around a bit longer before making a decision. zacian is pretty worrisome right now, though; i think it's just plain too fast and too strong for this tier and the counterplay against it is just not consistent enough at beating it. overall, even though i'm still in the "throw these things on a team and see if it works" phase of the tier, i've been having a lot more fun than i have playing ou for most of this gen
my biggest hope for the future is that gira-a drops down here so i can use this pressure + spite set i've been cooking up since gen 6. everyone's out here running a bunch of big strong 8-pp moves…
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Defensive Gliscor is a thing (maybe)
gliscor's usage is just a liiiittle bit too high right now but soon, soon we will be able to once again use the best spikes setter in recorded history
so is OUber rn.. okay
a mon i would like to see how work is Solgaleo whitout having his dark counterpart outclasing him
Few quick thoughts on this meta after hitting #1 on the ladder as I'm really enjoying it:
In a tier that is so defensively prepared for Zacian I honestly think Ekiller Fireceus with tera-normal is the scariest offensive threat. The ability to blow up pretty much everything with just Flare Blitz and STAB Espeed is unmatched, particularly with hazard support. At +2 and with marginal chip, you blow past Palkia-O, Dialga that isn't 252/252+, Cyclizar, Palafin-H with marginal chip, Urshifu-R and pretty much everything that isn't Zacian (who has to play tera guessing games anyway) and fringe options like twave Pult and Ceruledge (who I think is really underrated).
Extremely strong and potentially broken. With a grassy seed boost becomes very hard for ekiller Arceus and Palafin to revenge kill, and at +2 blows up everything in the meta. I've been dealing with it by adapting with random tera-ghosts but if the Sneasler predicts right you're cooked anyway. Not sure what counter-play can be explored for this - Hippo can survive at max health and whirlwind it out but I think we're going to have to wait for Giratina or something to drop or this could get out of hand.
Arceus in general is imo an extremely healthy presence in the meta because it allows a lot of freedom in defensive teambuilding. The only reason this meta isn't a complete mess is because you're able to bolster your defensive backbone with this mon just through sheer bulk despite having to deal with its shit typing. Really big fan of the mini Arceus meta.
Definitely has the ability to take over games but I don't actually think it's banworthy. Allows offensive and balance teams a good out vs various strong wallbreakers like Palkia-O but I think the meta has enough defensive options like Amoonguss, balloon Ghold etc that it doesn't feel extremely unhealthy.
Overall really fun meta and I hope it stays popular because I think there's a ton of room for meta development. Nothing feels super egregious atm but I do feel like Sneasler could become problematic at some point if the meta is unable to properly adapt.
In a tier that is so defensively prepared for Zacian I honestly think Ekiller Fireceus with tera-normal is the scariest offensive threat. The ability to blow up pretty much everything with just Flare Blitz and STAB Espeed is unmatched, particularly with hazard support. At +2 and with marginal chip, you blow past Palkia-O, Dialga that isn't 252/252+, Cyclizar, Palafin-H with marginal chip, Urshifu-R and pretty much everything that isn't Zacian (who has to play tera guessing games anyway) and fringe options like twave Pult and Ceruledge (who I think is really underrated).
Extremely strong and potentially broken. With a grassy seed boost becomes very hard for ekiller Arceus and Palafin to revenge kill, and at +2 blows up everything in the meta. I've been dealing with it by adapting with random tera-ghosts but if the Sneasler predicts right you're cooked anyway. Not sure what counter-play can be explored for this - Hippo can survive at max health and whirlwind it out but I think we're going to have to wait for Giratina or something to drop or this could get out of hand.
Arceus in general is imo an extremely healthy presence in the meta because it allows a lot of freedom in defensive teambuilding. The only reason this meta isn't a complete mess is because you're able to bolster your defensive backbone with this mon just through sheer bulk despite having to deal with its shit typing. Really big fan of the mini Arceus meta.
Definitely has the ability to take over games but I don't actually think it's banworthy. Allows offensive and balance teams a good out vs various strong wallbreakers like Palkia-O but I think the meta has enough defensive options like Amoonguss, balloon Ghold etc that it doesn't feel extremely unhealthy.
Overall really fun meta and I hope it stays popular because I think there's a ton of room for meta development. Nothing feels super egregious atm but I do feel like Sneasler could become problematic at some point if the meta is unable to properly adapt.
ooh, that would be neat! i wonder which else of the old box legendaries we might get in dlc2. lugia's definitely a possibility, necrozma-dw, maybe reshiram and the kyurems, it's all very exciting if the rumors of every legendary coming back are true
i think sneasler will be a lot more manageable come dlc2. the meta is very heavily offense-oriented right now (obviously), but it's likely that enough defensive stuff will come back (lugia and necrozma-dw seem promising against sets without dark/ghost coverage) or drop (gira-a and gliscor have pretty low usage right now) in dlc2 that sneasler is going to have a very unhappy new year
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Can vouch, SDKiller Arcfire is an amazing sweeper and cleaner with good defensive utility and solid matchups into most styles. If anyone is interested in trying it, I have a balance team with it here.Few quick thoughts on this meta after hitting #1 on the ladder as I'm really enjoying it:
In a tier that is so defensively prepared for Zacian I honestly think Ekiller Fireceus with tera-normal is the scariest offensive threat. The ability to blow up pretty much everything with just Flare Blitz and STAB Espeed is unmatched, particularly with hazard support. At +2 and with marginal chip, you blow past Palkia-O, Dialga that isn't 252/252+, Cyclizar, Palafin-H with marginal chip, Urshifu-R and pretty much everything that isn't Zacian (who has to play tera guessing games anyway) and fringe options like twave Pult and Ceruledge (who I think is really underrated).
the first one, they drop in January like like regulars UU. That's one of many FAQs we have in our simple questions simple answers thread!
Alright so I spent the weekend laddering and hit top 50 a few times before crashing my rating/tilting and trying out new teams so I have some additional thoughts:
-Yeah so hard no to mono claw. My attempt at it left my Ursaluna-Bloodmoon fully paralyzed by a Ribombee for a full seven turns in a row. This is a sign from the gods rejecting mono claw.
-I'm not sure Magearna has a bad set, although I've become partial to the Stored Power set. There's a lot of opportunities for it to set up especially if the opponent is playing cautiously while trying to figure out which Magearna set you brought.
-I absolutely hate Espathra. It's not broken and it certainly doesn't fit on every team, but it is very punishing if you call a single turn wrong.
-I saw some chatter about Iron Valiant and I think it has some potential with Scarfed Chi-Yu and Volcarona. More immediately its pretty scary next Extremekiller Arceus-Fire. Both do the same thing of hitting extremely hard with minimal set up and can cover threats the other cannot hit. I think better players than I could probably see decent success with that duo.
-Honestly, Arceus-Fire and Arceus-Poison seem to be the most worthwhile of the Arceus'. I've seen some Arceus-Grass get used to good success but Fire and Poison cover some really good chunks of the metagame offensively and defensively.
-So for my new hot take: Sneasler is overrated. It only fits on teams as a partner for Rillaboom and defensive checks for it can also work as defensive checks for other large threats. While Dire Claw is bs and the Sash/Reversal set is annoying, it's not impossible to shut down.
-For my second hot take: Ogrepon-Wellspring is underrated. It's a water type that can bully Palafin and a grass type that can prevent Arceus-Fire from safely switching in. It has some great utility options and a critical from Ivy Cudgel hurts pretty much anything badly.
-So finally my take on the meta is that it's punishing in a good way. I don't feel like I ever gain an advantage for making mistakes despite Last Respects being around as a comeback tool. The meta feels like its diversifying a bit and I am really excited to see how it looks before DLC 2 hits us with the former Great Wall of Ubers.
-Yeah so hard no to mono claw. My attempt at it left my Ursaluna-Bloodmoon fully paralyzed by a Ribombee for a full seven turns in a row. This is a sign from the gods rejecting mono claw.
-I'm not sure Magearna has a bad set, although I've become partial to the Stored Power set. There's a lot of opportunities for it to set up especially if the opponent is playing cautiously while trying to figure out which Magearna set you brought.
-I absolutely hate Espathra. It's not broken and it certainly doesn't fit on every team, but it is very punishing if you call a single turn wrong.
-I saw some chatter about Iron Valiant and I think it has some potential with Scarfed Chi-Yu and Volcarona. More immediately its pretty scary next Extremekiller Arceus-Fire. Both do the same thing of hitting extremely hard with minimal set up and can cover threats the other cannot hit. I think better players than I could probably see decent success with that duo.
-Honestly, Arceus-Fire and Arceus-Poison seem to be the most worthwhile of the Arceus'. I've seen some Arceus-Grass get used to good success but Fire and Poison cover some really good chunks of the metagame offensively and defensively.
-So for my new hot take: Sneasler is overrated. It only fits on teams as a partner for Rillaboom and defensive checks for it can also work as defensive checks for other large threats. While Dire Claw is bs and the Sash/Reversal set is annoying, it's not impossible to shut down.
-For my second hot take: Ogrepon-Wellspring is underrated. It's a water type that can bully Palafin and a grass type that can prevent Arceus-Fire from safely switching in. It has some great utility options and a critical from Ivy Cudgel hurts pretty much anything badly.
-So finally my take on the meta is that it's punishing in a good way. I don't feel like I ever gain an advantage for making mistakes despite Last Respects being around as a comeback tool. The meta feels like its diversifying a bit and I am really excited to see how it looks before DLC 2 hits us with the former Great Wall of Ubers.
So, kinda like BH, the meta also feels only somewhat stable due to Arceus. Unlike that tier who is mostly balance to semi-stall, this seems offense just like OU. Also remember, this tier is by nature incredibly unstable, and it should change wildly every month. Wouldn't be surprised to see stuff like ditto or toxapex dropping to Ubers UU, but you never know what you'll get which might cause issues down the line. I hope Lugia comes because I know that thing is trash in Ubers but would actually be defensive utility in UUbers.Few quick thoughts on this meta after hitting #1 on the ladder as I'm really enjoying it:
In a tier that is so defensively prepared for Zacian I honestly think Ekiller Fireceus with tera-normal is the scariest offensive threat. The ability to blow up pretty much everything with just Flare Blitz and STAB Espeed is unmatched, particularly with hazard support. At +2 and with marginal chip, you blow past Palkia-O, Dialga that isn't 252/252+, Cyclizar, Palafin-H with marginal chip, Urshifu-R and pretty much everything that isn't Zacian (who has to play tera guessing games anyway) and fringe options like twave Pult and Ceruledge (who I think is really underrated).
View attachment 574639
Extremely strong and potentially broken. With a grassy seed boost becomes very hard for ekiller Arceus and Palafin to revenge kill, and at +2 blows up everything in the meta. I've been dealing with it by adapting with random tera-ghosts but if the Sneasler predicts right you're cooked anyway. Not sure what counter-play can be explored for this - Hippo can survive at max health and whirlwind it out but I think we're going to have to wait for Giratina or something to drop or this could get out of hand.
View attachment 574640
Arceus in general is imo an extremely healthy presence in the meta because it allows a lot of freedom in defensive teambuilding. The only reason this meta isn't a complete mess is because you're able to bolster your defensive backbone with this mon just through sheer bulk despite having to deal with its shit typing. Really big fan of the mini Arceus meta.
View attachment 574641
Definitely has the ability to take over games but I don't actually think it's banworthy. Allows offensive and balance teams a good out vs various strong wallbreakers like Palkia-O but I think the meta has enough defensive options like Amoonguss, balloon Ghold etc that it doesn't feel extremely unhealthy.
Overall really fun meta and I hope it stays popular because I think there's a ton of room for meta development. Nothing feels super egregious atm but I do feel like Sneasler could become problematic at some point if the meta is unable to properly adapt.
I kinda feel like Zacian is broken in this tier. Imo its too fast and too powerful. Most of its checks happen to be Ground weak (poiceus fireceus ghold w/o a balloon or has a popped one) so one wrong tera = death. Tera Ground/Fire trips up a lot and honestly, SD should experiment with its moveset and item. In particular, Lum Berry should be used more. I don't think people realize how flexible this Mon is and there is too much builder stress and variables for this mon to be fine to stay imo. (Also why is it among the fastest mon in the tier for how hard it hits, the only naturally faster relevant mon is Pult, mostly everything else that outspeeds is scarf stuffies)
monoclaw hasn't been working for me either. quick claw houndstone and bloodmoon are great when they work, but i just can't summon the rng like i can in randbats or ou. i guess my powers don't work on this ladder for some reason
(also, ribombee isn't actually in this meta. your bloodmoon lost to a cutiefly)
i swear you can slap literally any four moves on this mon and succeed. i'm gonna wake up one day and see someone peaking ladder with fuckin' magnetic flux or tera normal false swipe or something
i find espathra annoying but i think it's balanced out by the sheer number of arceuses (arcei?) running around. the blood god set beats it if you get cosmic powers up at the same rate as espathra gets calm minds up and tera dark at the right time, and the ekiller sets can just ekill it. we've also got other strong priority like palafin jet punch and rillaboom grassy glide. those are generally the ways that i personally deal with espathra but i've also seen tera dark crocalor and a couple other techs
i actually haven't seen a single iron valiant yet, which is kinda weird but also explainable in a meta where you can run motherfucking zacian
my favorite arceus type is definitely poison, it's great against magearna, sneasler, and zacian if you're lucky. the fact that what appear to be the two biggest arceus types are both fairy resists is a testament to how strong fairy-types are right now
i haven't had any major problems with sneasler (probably because of the aforementioned arceus-poison) but i can see where people are coming from when they suggest giving it a look if more forms of counterplay to it don't show up soon. that said, as i mentioned before, there may be some new additions that give sneasler a hard time
hmm, coverage against fireceus and palafin simultaneously, plus the tera form defensively checks chi-yu and origin palkia… interesting…
i agree, this is the kind of meta i like to call a "tightrope-walker meta": shakily balanced, but fuck up once and you're dead
Moltres is pretty good from running it today. It has some major issues, like being weak to Mag's Volt Switch and Zacian's Wild Charge, but it generally matches up well vs those two and has good MUs into a few other top dogs like Arceus-Fire and Arceus-Grass. Wisp and Flame body are great tools, but probably its best tool is Roar, letting it phase out most of the cheese Stored Power mons and various CM sweepers + rack up hazard damage.
Its biggest problem, like in OU, is its hazard vulnerability after Knock and matching up Terribly vs some key Water-types like Palafin and Palkia-O.
In general, I like that the distribution of Roar is so wider than in OU. It makes a lot of the insane Stored Power sweepers + Shed Tail so much more managable than they would be otherwise.
Its biggest problem, like in OU, is its hazard vulnerability after Knock and matching up Terribly vs some key Water-types like Palafin and Palkia-O.
In general, I like that the distribution of Roar is so wider than in OU. It makes a lot of the insane Stored Power sweepers + Shed Tail so much more managable than they would be otherwise.
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bodi
Banned deucer.
everybody is freaking out about magearna and how busted it really is but I don't think so because there are a lot of mons that are simply better then it pleases take a look: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2000416437-2gs9eipszlfyrv4pms78fvacg4ckksepw
I think having Roar is important in this tier. Espathra and Magerna can get outta hands at times including Cyclizar. Arceus or Dialga is the best roar users. I have used roar on Arceus and yeah my opponent couldn't do anything about it. The best Arceus to use Roar is the poison one in my opinion. Nothing can kill that Mon in 1hit. No offense to anyone who likes Valiant because I do as well but that Mon is not good in this tier. Outclassed by Zacian and Magerna, can't do anything to Arceus. Valiant can star Ou, keep it there. You will have a better time to use Iron Moth instead, even Meow is better in this tier than Valiant. Houndstone and Quaq is the best Zacian answer in my opinion especially Houndstone.This is off topic but I'm starting to realize that Tera Poison is amazing Tera type. I know Water and Fairy is really good, same for Ghost but Poison is starting to become my favorite of the Tera to use on my mons. Like I said before, I am loving Ubers UU a lot. I actually want to try to get really good at this tier compare to Ou.
i've got to wonder if dialga-origin has a niche here at all. it can't possibly still be a meme when 3/4 of ubers and half of ou are out of its way, right? please just give it doom desire already game freak, it's the time mon, it deserves it. give me doom desire roar sets. make equilibra real. cowards
It’s just outclassed by regular dialga because regular dialga gets an item which it really wants. If dialga ever rises to Ubers then it will probably have a niche but right now it just doesn’t.
The only niche it has is being able to survive a specs overheat (not in sun) from chi-yu without investment, which means it's slightly more consistent and getting trick room. The issue is that once it's in, dialga would be better since it can use things like eject pack or life orb
Sneasler is defo really hard to stop, but there’s a few answers that can work pretty well. Clefable with the right Tera (basically anything not weak to poison) has a good chance to, but a good Tera on Magearna and Zacian will also do the job. Mag needs no investment and always kills with Fleur Cannon, and most sneaslers run no bulk so they die to band play rough. You basically have to burn your Tera…except for one option.
Gholdengo. Immune to Dire Claw and CC, resists Acro. You take a crap ton of damage, but you’ll be able to kill with Shadow Ball (maybe Make it Rain too but I haven’t calc’d it).
There’s also sillier options like Quagsire or Prankster Haze Murkrow, but those are kinda mid. Arceus also works but it’s hard to do it well.