Suspect SV Shared Power Suspect #1: Houndstone

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KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
:sv/houndstone: :sv/houndstone: :sv/houndstone:

The Shared Power council has decided to suspect test Houndstone!
But why?:
This bad boy has already been nerfed with the Sand Rush ban, leaving it with just Fluffy as its only legal ability. Currently, you can often see it on more defensive teams, often paired with Frosmoth, Wo-Chien, Mudsdale, Dachsbun, Garganacl and other Pokémon with defensive/utility abilities, this kind of team have been quite popular and can be quite difficult to take down. But it still has a place on offensive teams, as it has the unique move Last Respects that makes it quite attractive as a cleaner and a priority STAB move in Shadow Sneak.

Fluffy is a really powerful ability that was already mandatory on one of the most popular team archetypes last generation, and the generational changes only made it stronger, as physically oriented teams can no longer use Long Reach to break pass the walls protected by the fluff, at least not until HOME brings back Decidueye as datamines suggests. For similar reasons, defensive teams can't use Heatran like they did last gen, but they have been able to replace it with other Flash Fire users and the new ability Well-Baked Body. While on these teams, an ability Houndstone loves is Stamina, as it not only make it harder to kill but also increases the damage it can deal with Body Press, a move that it uses to take down the Normal and Dark types that try to tank Last Respects.

In the offensive side, Houndstone doesn't fall behind, Last Respects allow it to deal heavy damage mid-to-late game as it gains 50BP each time an ally goes down, this can keep growing until is the last Pokémon standing. And Fluffy is still quite good on offensive teams, as it allow them to set up without taking all that much physical damage.

But is far from the perfect Pokémon, the lack of reliable recovery make it tricky to use on defensive teams as it can be worn down, you often have to leave it to the end for it to be healthy enough to sweep if you don't want to use Wish, Natural Cure + Rest or some Ability combo like Rain Dish + Drizzle to keep it healthy during the game. It also lacks the power to hurt anything before Last Respects builds up damage as it only has a decent 105 base Attack, and with only 68 base Speed it can be quite hard for it to sweep teams before taking too much damage.

Suspect details:
During a Suspect, each player must climb the ladder until they've acquired the GXE necessary to participate in the voting. Primarily, everyone that participates needs to make an alt account following these guidelines:
  • Every game must be played on the official Pokémon Showdown site and on a new account (creation date no earlier than today, December 4th, 2022) with "SPERRO [Nick]"--for example, I could create one called "SPERRO Kaen" to ladder with.
  • To qualify for voting, your alt must play a minimum of 25 games, and you must have a minimum GXE of 75.
  • Houndstone will be allowed on the ladder during the suspect.
  • The suspect test will end on Sunday, December 18th @ 11:59pm (GMT-5).
  • When posting proof of meeting reqs, feel free to use this thread as a means to civilly elucidate any topical opinions regarding whether or not Hounstone should be banned (Optional).
  • It is mandatory to provide proof of ownership of the alt account as well. (Post a picture of your reqs with your smogon name featured).
As usual, the actual voting will take place in the Blind Voting Forum, so posting anything other than proof of reqs and discussion isn't necessary.
 
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Bobsican

NatDex Ubers TL
is a Top Tiering Contributor
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Confirming as SPERRO GATO

Here's the team I've used, it's a solid semistall of sorts, Purifying Salt + Fluffy + Stamina nopes Annihilape (for the most part) and Houndstone, while also ensuring Skill Link strats backfire. Pressure really shines as with the lowered reliable recovery PP since this gen you can actually PP stall the opponent, and Frosmoth can sometimes do a sweep late-game thanks to the raw longevity it gets from the abilities of its allies. The team is only mainly weak to NP Chi-Yu, Stored Power mons (especially Espathra, Opportunist is annoying as it copies Stamina boosts even after the user has reached max Def somehow), and to a degree Anger Shell + Defiant strats (IDK if Anger Shell triggering Defiant is intentional).
 
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Confirming as SPERRO BF2

I think stall is an important part of the SP eco system so I'll be voting no ban.

https://pokepast.es/2f90418cbcf2863f
Is what I used to climb. Probably not the optimal team yet but it's very techable. The current formula struggles against some threats that avoid phasing. When they have one threat you can't beat, keep houndstone and at least one other Mon alive for the prankster destiny bond win
 
one thing to note is that aside from fluffy s weakness it has no answer to garganactl or wo-cien who can both wall it. however this only applies within a vacuum as both of them are weak to body press and can get countered by other Pokemon or roar
 
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Hello there! Just letting know I've already create the account to try to reach 75 GXE and to be able to vote. My real nickname is "Nidoran Macho", I am not experienced enough like you guys so I count my points on Elo, which currently I have 1235.

I will do this task because I really want to vote to keep Houndstone unbanned, and I will explain: Some of us (low ladder mainly) have a hard time dealing with ultra-defensive, recovering teams... Some of us even are more attached to a more attackful way of thinking Pokémon (removing Blissey + Toxic was a great gift from Gen 9).

So, on Shared Power, the top 30 of the ranking or so, always have a Garganacl... This is the true enemy to beat in my opinion, but from my point of view what makes it really a beast is STAMINA + ICE SCALES, not Fluffy, since Garganacl already has a monster DEF. and lacks mostly on SP. DEF, which is where I can beat him with Hydro Pump with two moves.

Those are the actual two abilities that makes Garganacl broken, since a player can just sit down, Salt Cure, and recover until he reaches 4x DEF.

On the opinion of those in the medium side of the ladder, almost bottom, those who are beginning and enjoy more an attacking battle, Houndstone is quite pleasant to deal with. Having a Dark, a Normal, or a Tera Dark/Tera Normal mon on the team cuts the power of Last Respects during the battle, so by the end of the day, we're dealing with some sort of Bewear's of even Dubwool's Fluffy, which is quite beatable.

And if it happens to Houndstone be the opponents last Pokemon with an 250 attacking move, it just won't be the first to act, you know? Because Houndstone is a slow Pokémon, a Flutter Mane can just as easily OHKO him with a Shadow Ball... Even a banded Kingambit can Sucker Punch it and take him down if that's the case.

Also, Houndstone is mainly an attacking Pokémon not some sort of Clodsire, Blissey, Garganacl... It can't Recover and Toxic/Salt Cure its way to the top, it simply has a very powerful move, but not with a very powerful ATTACK stat, and that depends on some variables to be executable. Also, it has immunities to it. It's quite beautiful to play with it.

Please, bear in mind that this is not a vote. I will qualify to be able to keep it unbanned and quiet on my humble team, but right now I'm just saying that would be nice for the higher top of the ranking to think of us who refuses to go on a more strategic-defensive-recovery run (and even pay for it) and let us enjoy Houndstone, a Pokémon that is slow even with Choice Scarf, has a low attacking stat, almost no status moves and keeps our game based on the frenesy of attacking. As a player who suffers with Garganacl's unbeatableness for a long time, I can guarantee the reason for it's brokenness is not Fluffy, but other abilities, please, keep our ghost-puppy alive!
 

Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
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confirming as SPERRO DUK

my thoughts arent too complete but I think im going vote ban. the full stall teams can still use the smol doggo, but banning Hound takes away a lot of their offensive presence and should be a good nerf. my vote may change over the course of the week though

also I realized in game 24 that chlorophyll is free LOL. Almost got owned by luckily the pastry dog is clutch
also computer whiz is a noob :)
 
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Murphy Lawden

formerly Pokemon Trainer 596
is a Top Tiering Contributor
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Got a team from someone on ladder it was really op. Didn't face many Houndstone, also I learned that bulky houndstone is better and I don't think it should be banned. Although abilities like supreme overload are kinda broken, they should be banned.
 
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NoobHereWaddup

Tri Attack will freeze
is a Tiering Contributor
1670996848558.png

ooh boy my first suspect test

Mostly inclined on voting against a ban, with punching gloves letting you ignore fluffy, houndstone really doesnt feel that op, it's mostly defensive teams that want houndstone, i dont even remember facing a single offensive team using houndstone lol
 
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