In general, for me Pdef Corv has been terrible since the very beginning. Things it's supposed to check can easily tech with some move, item or weird Tera. Sdef Corv actually is better due to living shit from Gholdengo, Valiant and even Greninja and Pult, and then either U-Turning Out or using Bulk Up + Power Trip, but even then, it's certainly not an A Mon, I would say not even A-. Right now we are in the weird moment in which no Steel outside of Gholdengo (and maybe Kingambit, who got better after Chien Pao Ban but still has big issues that prevent it from dominating games) is without big opportunity cost. Heatran when it comes will of course change that (and also Magearna, but as long as it has Trick, it's an obvious Uber in my book) .
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Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]
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From the rant I made a long time ago I want to add that while it still packs a lot of defensive utility, when it comes to hazard remover and its matchup against some mons, I can even go as far and say that in this department, Oricorio, Noivern, Talonflame, Scizor, Hawlucha, Treads, and the head of the table Tusk, all do it way better thanks to a better matchup against most rockers, spikers and gholdengo, It's so passive that multiple mons like tusk, gambit and even stuff like quaquaval, stuff that corviknight SHOULD HAVE NO TROUBLE IN BEATING, can easily past it with a +2 def or in gambits case a well-timed tera, or if the gambit player knows corv does not have Body Press, even Skarmory with Defog could do a better job at walling and checking stuff outside of stuff like Pult, Valiant, Garga and Gholdengo, but corviknight also loses to that. I cannot stress enough how bad its matchups against the top mons make this mon a real pain, which is a real shame considering it still can wall a lot of stuff from A- and belowfrom A ----------> A-
Yes, that's right, this bird? Kinda balls, and I'm tired to pretend that it has as strong presence on the meta as gen 8 if you take gholdengo out
From the A list it loses to Ace, Hat if packing Mystical Fire (and even if it doesn't, you can just Nuzzle and open up hax) Rotom, Skele, Volcarona and even Roaring Moon can potentially brute force its way out with enough momentum, and it loses to almost anything in the A+ to S except for Kingambit if running Body Press (but BP is a suboptimal move in this meta thanks to all the ghost in the meta) Dragonite (who can potentially forgo EQ to do a little trolling with Fire Punch or Fire Spin) and Great Tusk (which that one is a good matchup for corv ill admit)
Corvi has a rough time trying to remove hazards and generate momentum because in every game it feels like it has to take everything, and it's extremely easy to punish, especially when 3 of the most broken mons in this meta are chien pao, gholdengo or garganacl, and "U-turn on the switching" is a meme, because you're not really doing anything, unless is a guaranteed hard counter, corvi will take insane damage and eventually it will be easily exploitable. This is why Tera Dark Bulk Up + Power Trip is in my personal opinion it's best set, because it can potentially beat all of this problems by doing it himself instead of relying on having to give up turns, but I don't think I can seriously sell you on this set, and it still can potentially lose to Gholdengo and Skele if your fast enough, or you have burned your tera
I'll be honest, I'm gonna support a Corviknight rise to A+ when it shows that Corv is the ultimate
counter (if he is not running Thunder punch) but we are not in gen 8 anymore, this is gen 9
Bit of a ballsy nom, but probably warranted considering some of the trends we've been seeing in SPL lately:
A --> S-
A+ --> S-
Gholdengo and Great Tusk tend to play a bit of a cat-and-mouse game where each runs some sort of a different Tera type to beat the other, but I feel like Volcarona and Kingambit have put this extremely polarizing mechanic's ability to flip matchups on a whim on full display lately and I think both should rise to S- (although Volcarona's admittedly much more of a matchup fish mon than Kingambit is, so A+ would probably be fine there).
Specifically, Volcarona started seeing very high usage and Kingambit responded by running Tera Fire to beat it 1v1, and then Volcarona responded to Kingambit's response by running Tera Ground to beat it 1v1. Both of these are extremely dangerous, very centralizing offensive threats that abuse Tera extremely well to change their few bad matchups. Volcarona in particular is putting a massive amount of pressure on the teambuilder as of lately (it's giving me hella Espathra vibes) since you realistically need quite a few ways to check it in the event that it's running a different Tera type from what you'd expect, even before factoring in bulky vs. offensive sets. Tera Ground in particular is very oppressive right now.
Kingambit is much less of a matchup fish mon than Volcarona; it's just really consistent at the one thing it does and being able to pick and choose numerous viable Tera types lets it change what mons it can set up on and/or just get free hits on. I think that consistency is what makes it worthy of S- in my eyes.
TL;DR: These two have a lot of influence both on teambuilding and on turn-by-turn gameplay - more than I think A and A+, respectively, reflect - and as such I think they should rise to S- to reflect just how centralizing they are without being at the literal top of the metagame like Tusk/Gholdengo are.
A --> S- A+ --> S-Gholdengo and Great Tusk tend to play a bit of a cat-and-mouse game where each runs some sort of a different Tera type to beat the other, but I feel like Volcarona and Kingambit have put this extremely polarizing mechanic's ability to flip matchups on a whim on full display lately and I think both should rise to S- (although Volcarona's admittedly much more of a matchup fish mon than Kingambit is, so A+ would probably be fine there).
Specifically, Volcarona started seeing very high usage and Kingambit responded by running Tera Fire to beat it 1v1, and then Volcarona responded to Kingambit's response by running Tera Ground to beat it 1v1. Both of these are extremely dangerous, very centralizing offensive threats that abuse Tera extremely well to change their few bad matchups. Volcarona in particular is putting a massive amount of pressure on the teambuilder as of lately (it's giving me hella Espathra vibes) since you realistically need quite a few ways to check it in the event that it's running a different Tera type from what you'd expect, even before factoring in bulky vs. offensive sets. Tera Ground in particular is very oppressive right now.
Kingambit is much less of a matchup fish mon than Volcarona; it's just really consistent at the one thing it does and being able to pick and choose numerous viable Tera types lets it change what mons it can set up on and/or just get free hits on. I think that consistency is what makes it worthy of S- in my eyes.
TL;DR: These two have a lot of influence both on teambuilding and on turn-by-turn gameplay - more than I think A and A+, respectively, reflect - and as such I think they should rise to S- to reflect just how centralizing they are without being at the literal top of the metagame like Tusk/Gholdengo are.
I agree with the general sentiment of how good Kingambit and Volcarona are, but my inclination would actually be to do away with S- and drop Garg back into A+
I just feel like it's lost a little traction and there are a lot of breakers running around that can either beat it down or stall its recovers well.
I have a feeling the next update will be a pretty big shakeup so just going to throw my support behind some of the nominations that have already been discussed:
Rises
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
Drops:
A -> A-
Others that I'm not sure if they've been mentioned or not:
C -> B-
C+ -> B-
These pokemon are both viable, certainly more threatening than Slowbro or Hawlucha who reside in C+. I think alongside Slither Wing makes sense, although Toedscruel might even be slightly more viable.
Brute Bonnet likely should be added to the rankings, probably C or C+
I also think Greninja belongs in A-, probably. Being slower than Meowscarada is somewhat painful as both fulfill a similar role: fast, frail, offensive pivots that can also use Spikes. I can't justify putting it above Meows personally
I just feel like it's lost a little traction and there are a lot of breakers running around that can either beat it down or stall its recovers well.
I have a feeling the next update will be a pretty big shakeup so just going to throw my support behind some of the nominations that have already been discussed:
Rises
Drops:
Others that I'm not sure if they've been mentioned or not:
These pokemon are both viable, certainly more threatening than Slowbro or Hawlucha who reside in C+. I think alongside Slither Wing makes sense, although Toedscruel might even be slightly more viable.
Brute Bonnet likely should be added to the rankings, probably C or C+
I also think Greninja belongs in A-, probably. Being slower than Meowscarada is somewhat painful as both fulfill a similar role: fast, frail, offensive pivots that can also use Spikes. I can't justify putting it above Meows personally
D -> C+
D -> C+
UR -> C+Psychic Terrain teams have gotten stronger in the wake of the Chien-Pao ban (even though they lament the loss of Espathra) and they were underrated in the VR to begin with. As far as I can tell, pretty much every Psychic Terrain team is the same: Terrain Extender Indeedee w/Healing Wish, Eject Button Hatt w/Healing Wish, Sash Tusk, Offensive Volc, Tera Psychic Sash Armarouge w/dual STABs + Energy Ball/Endure/DBond, and Sash Polteageist. I saw Hawlucha on one such team but anyway you get the point.
Armarouge and Polteageist are pretty much always on these teams and they do a significant amount of the work. Tera Psychic Expanding Force from Armarouge absolutely destroys non-Dark types, and Psychic Terrain + Weak Armor means it can shred through offensive teams if they don't play properly around it. Meanwhile Polteageist after a Shell Smash also rips teams apart with Shadow Ball + Tera Blast Fight + terrain boosted Stored Power. Indeedee is whatever. Doesn't tend to do much but the Terrain itself is valuable enough to secure its niche.
I realize that often times the weather/terrain setters are ranked higher than the weather/terrain abusers, but in this case I don't think it's needed because Psychic Terrain teams without Polteageist and Armarouge are virtually nonexistent. I also don't think anything higher than C+ is warranted (maybe B- could be argued for) since at the end of the day these Pokemon are limited to one play style and they all require quite a bit of support in order to function.
I don't have replays of myself using this God forsaken team since I'm an honest person, but here's the infamous 9 turn game from week 1 of SPL which demonstrates this core's power: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-669590 That was back with Chien-Pao in the meta, and these teams have only gotten better since Chien was banned. You can find plenty more examples of this archetype being used in SPL and OST if you're interested.
Also want to support a Peli rise to B, Rain is great right now and beyond full Rain teams Peli can function well as a devastating breaker with its Specs sets, or as a useful support with its HDB set, easily switching into Tusk and offering nice utility and offensive presence with moves like Knock Off, U-Turn, Surf, Hurricane, Ice Beam, and Roost.
I mean I get where you are coming from but considering its the ONLY good defogger we have at the moment that is probably why its still A.
Been saying that Corviknight was overrated since 2 months ago. While some of the bans such as Chi-Yu, Annihilape, and even Chien-Pao have been good for it, other meta shifts haven't been kind to it still. Giving NP Gholdengo free turns is horrid. Many Fire-types and Sun are rising. It can't freely come in on Garganacl. Iron Valiant techs Thunderbolt for it. Hates giving Rotom-W momentum. Mixed Garchomp's Fire Blast hits it hard. Even mons Corviknight should be checking very well, like Tusk, Gambit, Dragonite, etc all have ways of dealing with it depending on the situation. Tusk knocks it off, forcing more Roosts in the long term if it was holding Leftovers. Bulks Up on non-BU / ID Corvs. Choice Band CC 2HKOes, and Protosynthesis-boosted offensive CC has a good chance to after rocks and leftovers, even without BU boosts. Gambit Tera's to dodge 4x effective Body Press then sets up on it. Physical Dragonite can Fire Punch, but other special attacking sets can use Flamethrower or Thunderbolt.
Don't get me wrong. Corv's still very good. It's just not the face of defensive playstyles like it once was, and A- is a good indicator of that.
I personally would put Gren over Meow simply because while it lacks the same power Meow has, its got way more coverage and is harder to answer even if Gren doesn't hit as hard.
Psychic Terrain teams have gotten stronger in the wake of the Chien-Pao ban (even though they lament the loss of Espathra) and they were underrated in the VR to begin with. As far as I can tell, pretty much every Psychic Terrain team is the same: Terrain Extender Indeedee w/Healing Wish, Eject Button Hatt w/Healing Wish, Sash Tusk, Offensive Volc, Tera Psychic Sash Armarouge w/dual STABs + Energy Ball/Endure/DBond, and Sash Polteageist. I saw Hawlucha on one such team but anyway you get the point.
Armarouge and Polteageist are pretty much always on these teams and they do a significant amount of the work. Tera Psychic Expanding Force from Armarouge absolutely destroys non-Dark types, and Psychic Terrain + Weak Armor means it can shred through offensive teams if they don't play properly around it. Meanwhile Polteageist after a Shell Smash also rips teams apart with Shadow Ball + Tera Blast Fight + terrain boosted Stored Power. Indeedee is whatever. Doesn't tend to do much but the Terrain itself is valuable enough to secure its niche.
I realize that often times the weather/terrain setters are ranked higher than the weather/terrain abusers, but in this case I don't think it's needed because Psychic Terrain teams without Polteageist and Armarouge are virtually nonexistent. I also don't think anything higher than C+ is warranted (maybe B- could be argued for) since at the end of the day these Pokemon are limited to one play style and they all require quite a bit of support in order to function.
I don't have replays of myself using this God forsaken team since I'm an honest person, but here's the infamous 9 turn game from week 1 of SPL which demonstrates this core's power: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-669590 That was back with Chien-Pao in the meta, and these teams have only gotten better since Chien was banned. You can find plenty more examples of this archetype being used in SPL and OST if you're interested.
Also want to support a Peli rise to B, Rain is great right now and beyond full Rain teams Peli can function well as a devastating breaker with its Specs sets, or as a useful support with its HDB set, easily switching into Tusk and offering nice utility and offensive presence with moves like Knock Off, U-Turn, Surf, Hurricane, Ice Beam, and Roost.
scizor is still decent, defog in this meta does not really mean a lot, if it is for hazard removal, hard stall is using Talonflame, Forretress or not even bothering and putting 6 boots, offense is using tusk + hatterene and everything in beetween is tusk, rain has treads/scizor
Same with what 1LDK said above, and I'd argue that Corviknight is worse at Defogging in this meta than its ever been. Standard Defog Corviknight has no real way of getting past Gholdengo, which blocks your Defogs forever and you just give it free turns if you don't U-turn. Talonflame, meanwhile, can get past it with its Fire STABs, and Scizor can use Technician-boosted Thief to hit it hard, as well, or Bullet Punch if Gholdengo uses Tera-Fairy. While Gholdengo can spinblock against Great Tusk and Iron Treads, they have Knock Off and STAB Earthquake (and Tusk's Headlong Rush) to hit it super effectively, hency why Tusk is considered to be the best hazard remover in the meta right now.
Corviknight's shortcomings aren't limited to its poor Defogging prowess, either, which I went into detail about within my original drop post. If you're gonna use Corviknight, don't use it for Defog. I'd argue its Iron Defense + Body Press, Bulk Up + Tera Dark Power Trip, or simply a tank set with Brave Bird, Body Press, and U-turn are all better than Defog rn.
Can't lie Oricorio (fire it doesn't have a unique name) defogs better than Corv too which I find funny.
Suggesting Talonflame to rise from D => C.
Talonflame has two roles, which partially overlap: general physical check, and defogger that Gholdengo cannot safely switch into:
0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Bulky Gholdengo sets don't win the matchup, either:
0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gholdengo Hex (65 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 121-144 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Between 126 speed, Will-o-Wisp, and Flame Body, Talonflame poses a threat to physical attackers, and with Roost, it resists being worn down. Fire/Flying is a solid defensive typing, especially in a meta lacking electric attackers, and the quadruple rock weakness is offset by HDB.
Talonflame does have serious flaws, however. Its uninvested bulk is poor, and special attackers will immediately force it out, so the team needs a good defensive switch. Due to its reliance on outspeeding opponents and water weakness, Talonflame has a poor matchup versus rain teams. Along with the valuable resistances, its typing also carries a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, leaving the bird deathly afraid of Knock Off, and thus a very shaky Great Tusk check. Carrying Air Slash gives a 2HKO on Great Tusk, but costs the ability to Defog on Gholdengo.
Talonflame only belongs on fat balance or stall teams, but spreading burns and providing reliable Defogging is useful and better than a D rank.
Talonflame has two roles, which partially overlap: general physical check, and defogger that Gholdengo cannot safely switch into:
0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Bulky Gholdengo sets don't win the matchup, either:
0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gholdengo Hex (65 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 121-144 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Between 126 speed, Will-o-Wisp, and Flame Body, Talonflame poses a threat to physical attackers, and with Roost, it resists being worn down. Fire/Flying is a solid defensive typing, especially in a meta lacking electric attackers, and the quadruple rock weakness is offset by HDB.
Talonflame does have serious flaws, however. Its uninvested bulk is poor, and special attackers will immediately force it out, so the team needs a good defensive switch. Due to its reliance on outspeeding opponents and water weakness, Talonflame has a poor matchup versus rain teams. Along with the valuable resistances, its typing also carries a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, leaving the bird deathly afraid of Knock Off, and thus a very shaky Great Tusk check. Carrying Air Slash gives a 2HKO on Great Tusk, but costs the ability to Defog on Gholdengo.
Talonflame only belongs on fat balance or stall teams, but spreading burns and providing reliable Defogging is useful and better than a D rank.
I also agree that doing away with S- for now is probably best. Garganacl is not worthy of being a tier above any A+ as meta defining it is right now.
Some moves I agree w/ that have already been discussed
Rises
A -> A+
B+ -> A-
A- -> A
B- -> B
C -> C+
C+ -> B-/B
UR -> C
D -> C
UR -> C/C+
D -> C+
Drops
A -> A-/B+
A -> A-/B+
a few nominations I'd like to throw out there, first some drops for obvious reasons and then something that is already surprisingly high, which idt gets talked about enough.
B -> C+
B- -> C
sort of like beating a dead horse, but I imagine these guys have fallen off hard since the pao ban. Perhaps they could drop even further, but I think it's a little harsh. Paldea Fire has seen use on some stall teams as a decent bulky wisper, has a nice niche to break screens (even tho screens have also been less common since espathra ban). But it no longer checks a top meta threat and it is very weak to some high usage mons like tusk, dnite, and wash. Paldea water stays a tier below because there are a lot of other bulky waters to use in the tier, and it doesn't get that same niche on stall teams
C+ -> B-
With psyspam being talked about a lot, Hawlucha isn't a super common mon found on them, but when it is, it's extremely threatening. Electric terrain teams barely exist anymore but he also fits on those, making it more versatile and therefore I think it can be higher than other mons found on Psyspam. With just 52 Speed EV investment, this thing can outspeed Scarf Meowscarada and most importantly, booster/scarf valiant. Volcarona has been in discussion recently, and Hawlucha offers as a nice check. Hawlucha can 0HKO bulky volc with acrobatics unboosted, while being able to taunt to avoid being wisped. Then at +1 SpDef it can afford to setup a swords dance as well. Psyspam is powerful and Hawlucha can also function well under electric terrain, making it a versatile threat for HO teams.
Some moves I agree w/ that have already been discussed
Rises
A -> A+ B+ -> A- A- -> A B- -> B C -> C+ C+ -> B-/B UR -> C D -> C UR -> C/C+ D -> C+Drops
A -> A-/B+ A -> A-/B+a few nominations I'd like to throw out there, first some drops for obvious reasons and then something that is already surprisingly high, which idt gets talked about enough.
B -> C+ B- -> Csort of like beating a dead horse, but I imagine these guys have fallen off hard since the pao ban. Perhaps they could drop even further, but I think it's a little harsh. Paldea Fire has seen use on some stall teams as a decent bulky wisper, has a nice niche to break screens (even tho screens have also been less common since espathra ban). But it no longer checks a top meta threat and it is very weak to some high usage mons like tusk, dnite, and wash. Paldea water stays a tier below because there are a lot of other bulky waters to use in the tier, and it doesn't get that same niche on stall teams
C+ -> B-With psyspam being talked about a lot, Hawlucha isn't a super common mon found on them, but when it is, it's extremely threatening. Electric terrain teams barely exist anymore but he also fits on those, making it more versatile and therefore I think it can be higher than other mons found on Psyspam. With just 52 Speed EV investment, this thing can outspeed Scarf Meowscarada and most importantly, booster/scarf valiant. Volcarona has been in discussion recently, and Hawlucha offers as a nice check. Hawlucha can 0HKO bulky volc with acrobatics unboosted, while being able to taunt to avoid being wisped. Then at +1 SpDef it can afford to setup a swords dance as well. Psyspam is powerful and Hawlucha can also function well under electric terrain, making it a versatile threat for HO teams.
Having an S- rank or an equivalent only makes sense in the context of metas like Gen II where the top dog (Snorlax) is so mandatory and dominating that you need to differentiate between it and other the top threats. Tusk and Dhengo are both amazing but not that level of meta warping, and you don't need to run both at once.
Never been a fan of S- and it should go.
Never been a fan of S- and it should go.
Immensely splashable, versatile and metagame defining. It's well above the stuff in A+, even adapting to attempts to contain it. I don't understand how you could say it's not worthy of being a.tier above any a+ Mon.
Also don't understand some of the posts suggesting removing the S- rank. It's there to show mons that are excellent and some of the best Pokemon in the tier, but not quite at the level of those in S. But clearly above mons in A+.
Anyways
A+ -> S-One of the most, if not the most impactful late game presences in the tier. It is highly consistent, and has a major impact on building and playing in a way few other mons do. The range of tera types it can pick from only make it even better, and lets it adapt to Pokemon that try to check. It's a very influential Mon.
B -> B+Even before the Pao ban we started seeing more of Bax, but with no other ice type competition left, it's more easy to justify. Choice band is lethal, and against a team lacking a fairy type or tera, banded glaive rush claims a KO. It's also a strong dragon dancer that abused tera well, and it's perhaps the best RotomW punisher in the entire game. Speed tying Great Tusk is honestly annoying, but past that it's a strong Mon right now and I expect it to keep improving as people explore it more.
some noms of my own
RISES:
A+ -> S-
dragapult continues to do dragapult things, especially now that chien-pao has been banned. it's not easy to deal with due to its crazy high speed, STAB combination and movepool, all of which combine to give it a huge variety of sets, all of which are difficult to switch into for a lot of the metagame. for instance, clodsire switching into dragapult expecting a draco meteor gets plowed by dragon darts from choice band sets or set up on by sub + DD sets. kingambit looking to take either one of its STABs can get will-o-wisp'd on the switch and crippled for the remainder of the game. great tusk switching in expecting choice band gets obliterated by choice specs. the current meta just has a difficult time dealing with it and its many sets, especially since its biggest check has left the tier. so as a result, i think dragapult should return to its old placement of S-
A -> A+
another beneficiary of the chien-pao ban, roaring moon really appreciates its biggest counter and competition leaving the tier since it allows it to fulfill its role with less opportunity cost. CB sets are crazy strong, with tera dark crunch being able to 2HKO dondozo after stealth rock and DD sets are some of the scariest sweepers in the tier. in addition to this, its speed tier means it gets the jump on tons of offensive threats like iron valiant, garchomp and volcarona, and speed ties with cinderace, allowing it to threaten them with a KO. not only that but its bulk and typing means it has a lot of opportunities to come in and start wallbreaking or setting up, thanks to its many common resistances. it can even use this to its advantages by running a dedicated lure set with jaw lock, DD and roost to trap and remove certain pokemon 1v1
it, however, does have quite a few common weaknesses to go along with its resistances, and its speed tier, while great, means it has to tera or switch out against the likes of dragapult and greninja (if running ice beam). still a great pokemon overall though, and a huge winner from the recent bans. because of this, i think it is worth moving up to A+
A -> A+
skeledirge is far and away the best of the unaware trio with who it can check and how it differentiates itself in its role from the other two. for starters, being able to function as a strong defensive backbone for a team while maintaining offensive pressure with torch song is invaluable for a wall, since it allows them to fulfill their purpose and break serious holes into the opponent's team at the same time, which is something clodsire and dondozo (who we'll get to soon) cannot find themselves doing. this makes it far and away the best volcarona check pre-tera (and is still really reliable as one post-tera), being able to beat most variants used to beat other unaware mons like clodsire. ignoring individual matchups, skeledirge's more well-rounded bulk and access to will-o-wisp means it's also capable of blanking both sides of the attacking spectrum, both physical and special, which is another advantage it has over its competitors. and its variety in tera types means it can pick and choose who it wants to wall at a whim, depending on what you want it to wall. need to resist dark to beat roaring moon? tera fairy. your team's struggling against rotom-W? tera dragon. need to tera to check kingambit but don't want to lose the tera 50/50? just run tera water and beat it anyway. skeledirge is just so good in what it does for a team and has so many options for what it can wall, especially now that chien-pao is banned. definitely a pokemon worthy of A+
DROPS:
A -> A-
honestly, dondozo just feels way too easy to take advantage of. since whenever it hits the field and takes a strong attack on the switch, it has to immediately rest back up to full so it can come back in again later, which opens up a lot of opportunities for the opponent. it having to use rest to stay healthy really cuts into its reliability as a wall, since it means it's easy for teammates to get an opportunity to start breaking major holes through dondozo's team. if it isn't at full HP then it risks getting blown past by the pokemon it's supposed to check, like dragonite and roaring moon, and has to use rest immediately, putting it in a bad position. if dondozo had recover then i could see it staying at A rank, but because it doesn't, i think it should drop to A-.
A -> A-
of the 3 main sources of hazard control in this metagame, hatterene is the one with the worst matchup into gholdengo, which says a lot considering how poorly i handle it myself. gholdengo matchup problems aside, it's prone to getting worn down too hard to the point where it can't heal back up with draining kiss thanks to its low HP, which is really bad for it considering how reliant it is on the move to stay healthy and check and/or sweep opposing pokemon, making its longevity a problem at times. not only does it fear strong neutral hits, its reliance on boosting to be a threat means it also really hates going up against the 3 unaware walls, especially skeledirge due to it resisting draining kiss and not caring about psyshock, all while threatening it with ghost STAB. and it's not just skeledirge it loses to, since garganacl also beats it with salt cure all while staying healthy with recover, cinderace chunks it for a ton with gunk shot, kingambit beats it, dragapult also beats it, dragonite and iron valiant pick it off after it's been weakened, hell, even great tusk can beat hatterene with the insurgence of the new bulk up set with tera fire. it's just a pokemon that loses to so much of the meta right now
and before you bring it up, i do think the eject button set with nuzzle and healing wish is better than the calm mind set, but its complete lack of longevity and immediate power makes it quite passive into a lot of pokemon, meaning it usually can't do anything other than switch out or pass a healing wish. overall, i think hatterene's worth dropping to A-
B+ -> B/B-
why use this over great tusk? what does this pokemon do that great tusk can't? iron treads is weaker, frailer, has an inferior movepool and its one sole advantage over great tusk in speed isn't even that good since it doesn't even outspeed anything great tusk doesn't aside from pawmot, who dents it with mach punch and garchomp, who doesn't care about anything iron treads has (barring the rare ice spinner) and forces it out with the threat of earthquake. it's just not worth using over tusk, and as a result, i think it should drop to B or B-
OTHER NOMS I AGREE WITH:
A+ -> S-
A -> A+/S-
A- -> A/A+
UR -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> B+/A-/A
B- -> B/B+
A -> A- :(
A -> B+
RISES:
A+ -> S-dragapult continues to do dragapult things, especially now that chien-pao has been banned. it's not easy to deal with due to its crazy high speed, STAB combination and movepool, all of which combine to give it a huge variety of sets, all of which are difficult to switch into for a lot of the metagame. for instance, clodsire switching into dragapult expecting a draco meteor gets plowed by dragon darts from choice band sets or set up on by sub + DD sets. kingambit looking to take either one of its STABs can get will-o-wisp'd on the switch and crippled for the remainder of the game. great tusk switching in expecting choice band gets obliterated by choice specs. the current meta just has a difficult time dealing with it and its many sets, especially since its biggest check has left the tier. so as a result, i think dragapult should return to its old placement of S-
A -> A+another beneficiary of the chien-pao ban, roaring moon really appreciates its biggest counter and competition leaving the tier since it allows it to fulfill its role with less opportunity cost. CB sets are crazy strong, with tera dark crunch being able to 2HKO dondozo after stealth rock and DD sets are some of the scariest sweepers in the tier. in addition to this, its speed tier means it gets the jump on tons of offensive threats like iron valiant, garchomp and volcarona, and speed ties with cinderace, allowing it to threaten them with a KO. not only that but its bulk and typing means it has a lot of opportunities to come in and start wallbreaking or setting up, thanks to its many common resistances. it can even use this to its advantages by running a dedicated lure set with jaw lock, DD and roost to trap and remove certain pokemon 1v1
it, however, does have quite a few common weaknesses to go along with its resistances, and its speed tier, while great, means it has to tera or switch out against the likes of dragapult and greninja (if running ice beam). still a great pokemon overall though, and a huge winner from the recent bans. because of this, i think it is worth moving up to A+
A -> A+skeledirge is far and away the best of the unaware trio with who it can check and how it differentiates itself in its role from the other two. for starters, being able to function as a strong defensive backbone for a team while maintaining offensive pressure with torch song is invaluable for a wall, since it allows them to fulfill their purpose and break serious holes into the opponent's team at the same time, which is something clodsire and dondozo (who we'll get to soon) cannot find themselves doing. this makes it far and away the best volcarona check pre-tera (and is still really reliable as one post-tera), being able to beat most variants used to beat other unaware mons like clodsire. ignoring individual matchups, skeledirge's more well-rounded bulk and access to will-o-wisp means it's also capable of blanking both sides of the attacking spectrum, both physical and special, which is another advantage it has over its competitors. and its variety in tera types means it can pick and choose who it wants to wall at a whim, depending on what you want it to wall. need to resist dark to beat roaring moon? tera fairy. your team's struggling against rotom-W? tera dragon. need to tera to check kingambit but don't want to lose the tera 50/50? just run tera water and beat it anyway. skeledirge is just so good in what it does for a team and has so many options for what it can wall, especially now that chien-pao is banned. definitely a pokemon worthy of A+
DROPS:
A -> A-honestly, dondozo just feels way too easy to take advantage of. since whenever it hits the field and takes a strong attack on the switch, it has to immediately rest back up to full so it can come back in again later, which opens up a lot of opportunities for the opponent. it having to use rest to stay healthy really cuts into its reliability as a wall, since it means it's easy for teammates to get an opportunity to start breaking major holes through dondozo's team. if it isn't at full HP then it risks getting blown past by the pokemon it's supposed to check, like dragonite and roaring moon, and has to use rest immediately, putting it in a bad position. if dondozo had recover then i could see it staying at A rank, but because it doesn't, i think it should drop to A-.
A -> A-of the 3 main sources of hazard control in this metagame, hatterene is the one with the worst matchup into gholdengo, which says a lot considering how poorly i handle it myself. gholdengo matchup problems aside, it's prone to getting worn down too hard to the point where it can't heal back up with draining kiss thanks to its low HP, which is really bad for it considering how reliant it is on the move to stay healthy and check and/or sweep opposing pokemon, making its longevity a problem at times. not only does it fear strong neutral hits, its reliance on boosting to be a threat means it also really hates going up against the 3 unaware walls, especially skeledirge due to it resisting draining kiss and not caring about psyshock, all while threatening it with ghost STAB. and it's not just skeledirge it loses to, since garganacl also beats it with salt cure all while staying healthy with recover, cinderace chunks it for a ton with gunk shot, kingambit beats it, dragapult also beats it, dragonite and iron valiant pick it off after it's been weakened, hell, even great tusk can beat hatterene with the insurgence of the new bulk up set with tera fire. it's just a pokemon that loses to so much of the meta right now
and before you bring it up, i do think the eject button set with nuzzle and healing wish is better than the calm mind set, but its complete lack of longevity and immediate power makes it quite passive into a lot of pokemon, meaning it usually can't do anything other than switch out or pass a healing wish. overall, i think hatterene's worth dropping to A-
B+ -> B/B-why use this over great tusk? what does this pokemon do that great tusk can't? iron treads is weaker, frailer, has an inferior movepool and its one sole advantage over great tusk in speed isn't even that good since it doesn't even outspeed anything great tusk doesn't aside from pawmot, who dents it with mach punch and garchomp, who doesn't care about anything iron treads has (barring the rare ice spinner) and forces it out with the threat of earthquake. it's just not worth using over tusk, and as a result, i think it should drop to B or B-
OTHER NOMS I AGREE WITH:
A+ -> S-A -> A+/S- A- -> A/A+UR -> AB+ -> A-B -> B+/A-/AB- -> B/B+A -> A- :(A -> B+
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Corviknight is rated as highly as it is, likely because of the lack of flying types in the tier. Its defensive type combination is pretty unique and physically defensive Corviknight was decent stopping Chien-Pao back when it was around. That said, I agree with dropping it. It's helpless against most of the tier and can get overwhelmed defensively, especially if it's the Defog set. For hazard removal, I'm not fond of how easily it gets worn down by Brave Bird recoil + hazards + Rocky Helmet recoil. Moreover, Gholdengo shits all over this thing (including stopping it from using Defog successfully) unless its running that obscure Power Trip set
Toedscruel deserves a rise imo. Having access to a ton of rare utility options like Spore, Toxic, Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes in tandem with its ability makes it a pretty disruptive presence. In my experience, it does seem to bait in Pokemon that hold Covert Cloak (which it can knock off), thus letting Garganacl be more disruptive with Salt Cure. Being able to remove items (Leftovers/Boots) on stuff it baits in but can't beat is helpful in the long run. Finally, it's typing and good sp.def stat let's it switch into/take hits from Rotom-Wash, Ting-Lu, Sandy Shocks (non-tera ice), and Gholdengo among others, which I find to be a helpful trait. It's not the best Spinner, but it can at least deter Ghosts from spinblocking with the threat of a status move or Knock Off, and it has the tools to attack and threaten Hazard Setters like Tusk and Garg (with Giga Drain/Grass Knot/Earth Power) so it's one of the better alternatives for the role with the tier having a dearth of good hazard removal options.
Its main flaw is 4mss, since it has a ton of stuff it'd like to run, but struggles to fit them all in. I think Spore and Knock Off are too good to give up; but choosing between Spikes, Giga Drain/Grass Knot/Earth Power, Spin, or a second status move is a tough call to make for it. So perhaps C+/B- would be a good place for it?
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Definitely agree with Iron Moth rising. It's just so much better than the rest of the B+ mons, and I feel its just as viable as the A- mons and even some of the A-tier mons like Hatterene and Cinderace.
In all seriousness though, its coverage, Speed, and wallbreaking potential deserves it a spot at at least A-.
Other noms I agree with:
A -> A+ A -> A-
B+ -> B
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I don't normally put my opinion on these threads, but after some testing, I'd like to nominate Iron Jugulis for a rise, albeit a small one.
UR -> C
Yes, this thing is weak, frail, and is just generally mediocre at what it wants to do. People have tried it on rain teams to success I am unaware of, but most would rather use a special wallbreaker that can do more and better things such as greninja. It gets outsped naturally by Valiant, Pult, and even Meowscarada can set up spikes on it while it misses all of its hurricanes. So why use it?
Iron Jugulis @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
This set is surprisingly effective in the current meta, as it specializes in tearing apart balance and bulky offense teams with relative ease. Booster energy makes it faster than all of its offensive checks other than booster Valiant, which can't do much if Jug terastalizes, while taunt shuts down the defensive checks that could soak up its attacks like ting-lu and clodsire. Speaking of, most clod and ting-lu sets can't touch Jug if they're taunted outside of a rare gunk shot or ruination respectively, while Jug gets to spam hurricanes into them and anything that tries to switch in.
This set functions the best on hyper offense teams, such as this one: https://pokepast.es/363c22ea2ff2e8fd
(I found this team in the ou chatroom on sd, and it got me to the 1400's. I don't know who to credit it to though, so if you know please tell me)
Anyways, just something I though could spark some discussion. Please don't let this post trick you into thinking that Jug is good, I nominated it to C for a reason.
UR -> C
Yes, this thing is weak, frail, and is just generally mediocre at what it wants to do. People have tried it on rain teams to success I am unaware of, but most would rather use a special wallbreaker that can do more and better things such as greninja. It gets outsped naturally by Valiant, Pult, and even Meowscarada can set up spikes on it while it misses all of its hurricanes. So why use it?
Iron Jugulis @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
This set is surprisingly effective in the current meta, as it specializes in tearing apart balance and bulky offense teams with relative ease. Booster energy makes it faster than all of its offensive checks other than booster Valiant, which can't do much if Jug terastalizes, while taunt shuts down the defensive checks that could soak up its attacks like ting-lu and clodsire. Speaking of, most clod and ting-lu sets can't touch Jug if they're taunted outside of a rare gunk shot or ruination respectively, while Jug gets to spam hurricanes into them and anything that tries to switch in.
This set functions the best on hyper offense teams, such as this one: https://pokepast.es/363c22ea2ff2e8fd
(I found this team in the ou chatroom on sd, and it got me to the 1400's. I don't know who to credit it to though, so if you know please tell me)
Anyways, just something I though could spark some discussion. Please don't let this post trick you into thinking that Jug is good, I nominated it to C for a reason.
It's already C Rank.
Slowking @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Ice Beam / Surf
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Chilly Reception
Slowking B+ -> A-
I think Slowking has been underrated in the Gen 9 meta because it's typically a specially defensive pivot that does not match up well against many top special attacking threats - Gholdengo, Dragapult, Iron Valiant, and Volcarona. The above set allows Slowking to pivot quite well into many physical top treats in the meta - Great Tusk, Dragonite, Cinderace, Garchomp, etc (and Garganacl with Covert Cloak). 80 Base Def is still pretty bulky; Slowbro had a similar SpD-focused set in Gen 8. I'd highly recommend trying this Slowking set out!
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Ice Beam / Surf
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Chilly Reception
Slowking B+ -> A-I think Slowking has been underrated in the Gen 9 meta because it's typically a specially defensive pivot that does not match up well against many top special attacking threats - Gholdengo, Dragapult, Iron Valiant, and Volcarona. The above set allows Slowking to pivot quite well into many physical top treats in the meta - Great Tusk, Dragonite, Cinderace, Garchomp, etc (and Garganacl with Covert Cloak). 80 Base Def is still pretty bulky; Slowbro had a similar SpD-focused set in Gen 8. I'd highly recommend trying this Slowking set out!
This is my team. The RMT is here. Also, as mentioned, it is already C which I think is fitting. It has a small niche outside of rain in being a revenge killer for HO that can Taunt to prevent set-up, hazards, and break things like Clodsire.
So that this isn't a complete one-liner AND a shameless plug. Here are some noms that I agree with:
Agree with all of this except for the sun noms. It's not that I think that sun's bad, I just haven't played it enough. And most of the sun I run into is bad 1600s with SZ sun.
toxapex is literally passive dogshit that is set-up fodder for np gholdengo and sd kingambit, two of ou's biggest threats. another thing about this 'mon is garganacl's negative impact on the meta has indirectly fucked over toxapex. here's an example: people are spamming that tera-grass volcarona set with substitute | quiver dance | flamethrower | giga drain for garganacl. what's toxapex doing to this volcarona set? a pokemon it would normally beat / status in previous gens? nothing. another pokemon toxapex should beat in theory is skeledirge but garganacl has caused that ratchet ass substitute set to be used which means your toxapex no longer beats that either. speaking of garganacl, you have to run that shitty covert cloak item for that thing which means it can't run black sludge to negate will-o-wisp. the power creep is also insane this generation. roaring moon hits 800+ attack after 1 dragon dance and smokes your pack & iron valiant will just calm mind, tera-electric / -steel, then send you to hell. to top it all off, toxapex is shed tail fodder, a dead teamslot when you load into hatterene, and very prone to being tech'd with iron moth running psychic / tera blast-ground for instance
i personally thought the initial rise to A was a bit extreme to begin with. but it was understandable since bunker pex was one of the best chien-pao answers when that thing was legal. nowadays if i see a toxapex at team preview i'm happy. if this was my personal VR list it'd prolly end up in C+. shit's ass
→ A-
two very dangerous dragon-types that are direct beneficiaries of the chien-pao ban. hydreigon has an amazing speed tier and it's the best offensive answer to skeledirge. nasty plot is a free kill button if you position it properly and tera-steel lets it flip the script on common counter-play such as clodsire and dragapult. choice band baxcalibur only has 1 counter in the entire game: physically defensive fairy garganacl. baxcalibur's set-up sets are also dummy. sd and dd sets force a lot of players to react with defensive tera's.
post-charity bowl edit: baxcalibur could even rise all the way to A
→ A
specs has an elite speed tier and is impossible to switch into. counterplay to specs revolves around pivoting into the right move (hydro pump | ice beam | dark pulse) with the last slot being flexible, ranging from spikes to extrasensory to water shuriken (needs rain support) to even grass knot since it's one of the few 'mons available that can OHKO curse water garganacl
Baneful Bunker Pex was so necessary on fat balance in Pao meta but now that things have gotten faster it's way too passive. Cloak doesn't even beat Garg on its own.
Bax in particular is crazy. DD is the best set IMO, but band/LO are still crazy.
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Hydreigon gets Nasty Plot which lets it rip through bulkier teams, switching into it safely is almost impossible until you know all four of its moves (it can’t fit everything it wants on one set unfortunately… or fortunately if you’re on the receiving end of its wrath!) Jugulis has less reliable secondary STAB and doesn’t get Nasty Plot for some reason, yeah it’s faster and in theory is almost as strong but in practice it has way less bulk and ends up not hitting very hard… not to mention it’s already ranked lmao
->A-/ASince pretty much the start of gen 9 I've played with Meowscarada and I think that B+ does not give justice to this mon. I know that there are a lot of sets one can run with meow, from heavy duty boots hazard sets to scarf variants. My argument to rise the placement of Meowscarada is one specific set: choice band. It's probably one of the most underrated sets but arguably the best one. More specifically i refer to the following:
Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch
There are several reasons why B+ seems just too low of a placement:
The speed tier: this speed stat especially now that chien pao is banned and greninja joined OU is simply amazing as it is the second fastest mon in OU. There isn't much to say about this aspect, for a sweeper this is by far the most important stat and meowscarada is simply excellent in that regard.
The power: it may seem low as, in the end, meowscarada base attack is 110 which, by gen 9 standards, seems pretty low for a sweeper. As we all know what really matters is the combination of multiple factors that dictates how much damage a mon actually does on the field. Meow STABs have 105 base power (flower trick) and 98.5 power (knock off) so banded hits do not feel weak by any means.
Coverage/Options: grass, dark, bug and electric is, at least to me, a never seen coverage combination that works surprisingly well. Banded meowscarada has, of course, STAB on all of this types thanks to the amazing ability. This makes so that the number of pokemons that can switch in safely is extremely limited (actually i'd say none and i'll explain in the last point). Corviknight is probably the first answer that one would think about when it comes to dealing with a physical grass/dark mon and it gets easily 2OHKO by t punch, let alone with hazards. The electric coverage has also been very useful in my experience in other scenarios involving tera. Tera flying Gholdengo and Kingambit are some of the most popular tera transformations of two very used mons, Thunder punch OKHO tera flying Gholdengo and this has proved to be very important in my games on the ladder.
General Value: as mentioned before there are some mons that could be seen as counters/wall to this set. The most important ones that come to mind are Kingambit and Amoonguss. With their type combination and bulk they are able to switch somewhat safely to meow. To me this is partially true as the moveset has two great moves in knock off and u turn that not only deal what i consider decent damage (it depends on the ev spread, but U turn does good % to both of them) but also provide great value to the game. One of course removes the item, which is probably one of the greatest secondary effects, the other gives momentum and make you switch out while doing considerable damage. Another great trait that is overlooked is the typing: grass dark is a bad defensive type for a wall and Wo-Chien proved it. With great stats and ability/movepool it just couldn't be considered as a good OU pick. For an offensive mon in gen 9, on the other hand, It is not actually that bad. Now i'm not going to list every situation where grass dark provides good defensive traits but just a few: resisting dark is huge for kingambit sucker punch, ghost resist is great to be able to switch on Gholdengo shadowballs and ground resist in general is a great positive trait and, most importantly, you are immune to psychic. This can be very usefull to stall turns of psychic terrain against psy spam offense. Those defensive traits require risky plays and a lot of predictions, what i'm trying to say is that grass dark is not as bad as it may look like on paper. There are deffinitely some good defensive traits provided by the typing.
on a final note let's take a look at the highest ranked pokemons: Garganacl, Great tusk and Gholdengo. Meowscarada has a good matchup versus all of them and this is obviously a very nice to have. Even if we go lower in A+/A mewoscarada is pretty good at dealing with lots of things there: outspeed cinderace and can OKHO with knock, Does massive defense boost ignoring damage on dondozo, outspeeds and KOs valiant, Does high damage on Ting lu, Rotom, Skeledridge, Clodsire and roaring moon.
Meowscarada is deffinitely a pokemon with limitations, the previously mentioned Kingambit and Amoonguss are good checks and Bulky flame body volcarona is risky (even if it can't really switch in safely it is still threatening a burn that is obviously very bad for a phys att sweeper). Dragapult outspeeds it and in general is just able to beat it 1v1 (even if it can't really switch). Also anything that outspeeds like scarf gholdengo and pokemons that increase their speed via weather/boosts are a significant limitation of meowscarada as it has a very low bulk and, on this particular set, no priority. With that being said looking at what is above in S, S-, A+, A, A- tiers and in the same tier B+ I can see that Meow really deserves a rise. It’s way better than things like iron threads, Scizor and Slowking even if this is the stuff for another discussion.
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I'm assuming thats meant to be protean not overgrow right? Agree with a rise to A- though.
Since pretty much the start of gen 9 I've played with Meowscarada and I think that B+ does not give justice to this mon. I know that there are a lot of sets one can run with meow, from heavy duty boots hazard sets to scarf variants. My argument to rise the placement of Meowscarada is one specific set: choice band. It's probably one of the most underrated sets but arguably the best one. More specifically i refer to the following:
Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Overgrow
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch
There are several reasons why B+ seems just too low of a placement:
The speed tier: this speed stat especially now that chien pao is banned and greninja joined OU is simply amazing as it is the second fastest mon in OU. There isn't much to say about this aspect, for a sweeper this is by far the most important stat and meowscarada is simply excellent in that regard.
The power: it may seem low as, in the end, meowscarada base attack is 110 which, by gen 9 standards, seems pretty low for a sweeper. As we all know what really matters is the combination of multiple factors that dictates how much damage a mon actually does on the field. Meow STABs have 105 base power (flower trick) and 98.5 power (knock off) so banded hits do not feel weak by any means.
Coverage/Options: grass, dark, bug and electric is, at least to me, a never seen coverage combination that works surprisingly well. Banded meowscarada has, of course, STAB on all of this types thanks to the amazing ability. This makes so that the number of pokemons that can switch in safely is extremely limited (actually i'd say none and i'll explain in the last point). Corviknight is probably the first answer that one would think about when it comes to dealing with a physical grass/dark mon and it gets easily 2OHKO by t punch, let alone with hazards. The electric coverage has also been very useful in my experience in other scenarios involving tera. Tera flying Gholdengo and Kingambit are some of the most popular tera transformations of two very used mons, Thunder punch OKHO tera flying Gholdengo and this has proved to be very important in my games on the ladder.
General Value: as mentioned before there are some mons that could be seen as counters/wall to this set. The most important ones that come to mind are Kingambit and Amoonguss. With their type combination and bulk they are able to switch somewhat safely to meow. To me this is partially true as the moveset has two great moves in knock off and u turn that not only deal what i consider decent damage (it depends on the ev spread, but U turn does good % to both of them) but also provide great value to the game. One of course removes the item, which is probably one of the greatest secondary effects, the other gives momentum and make you switch out while doing considerable damage. Another great trait that is overlooked is the typing: grass dark is a bad defensive type for a wall and Wo-Chien proved it. With great stats and ability/movepool it just couldn't be considered as a good OU pick. For an offensive mon in gen 9, on the other hand, It is not actually that bad. Now i'm not going to list every situation where grass dark provides good defensive traits but just a few: resisting dark is huge for kingambit sucker punch, ghost resist is great to be able to switch on Gholdengo shadowballs and ground resist in general is a great positive trait and, most importantly, you are immune to psychic. This can be very usefull to stall turns of psychic terrain against psy spam offense. Those defensive traits require risky plays and a lot of predictions, what i'm trying to say is that grass dark is not as bad as it may look like on paper. There are deffinitely some good defensive traits provided by the typing.
on a final note let's take a look at the highest ranked pokemons: Garganacl, Great tusk and Gholdengo. Meowscarada has a good matchup versus all of them and this is obviously a very nice to have. Even if we go lower in A+/A mewoscarada is pretty good at dealing with lots of things there: outspeed cinderace and can OKHO with knock, Does massive defense boost ignoring damage on dondozo, outspeeds and KOs valiant, Does high damage on Ting lu, Rotom, Skeledridge, Clodsire and roaring moon.
Meowscarada is deffinitely a pokemon with limitations, the previously mentioned Kingambit and Amoonguss are good checks and Bulky flame body volcarona is risky (even if it can't really switch in safely it is still threatening a burn that is obviously very bad for a phys att sweeper). Dragapult outspeeds it and in general is just able to beat it 1v1 (even if it can't really switch). Also anything that outspeeds like scarf gholdengo and pokemons that increase their speed via weather/boosts are a significant limitation of meowscarada as it has a very low bulk and, on this particular set, no priority. With that being said looking at what is above in S, S-, A+, A, A- tiers and in the same tier B+ I can see that Meow really deserves a rise. It’s way better than things like iron threads, Scizor and Slowking even if this is the stuff for another discussion.
yes sorry, I corrected the mistake. Thx!
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