Announcement SV OU Tiering Surveys

[Finchinator]

Hello everyone! We are having another community survey and this will be the last one focused on the DLC1 metagame as DLC2 drops in under a month.

Anyone with Smogon account may respond and we will be taking a particularly close look on those who have experience on the ladder or in tournaments. We will keep this open through 10:00 PM GMT-5 of Sunday, November 19th, but the council will be reading responses as they come in to potentially act sooner, so respond when possible. It only takes a few minutes to respond, so please do so if you are invested in our metagame!

HERE is the 13th ever SV OU tiering survey. Please respond!!!

 

[Finchinator]

The images from the google forms presenting the graphs of data are going to be a lost cause this time around; this is due to a spambot incident, which resulted in over 9000 spam responses flooding in. I was able to remove the raw data from my sheet within seconds to compile data thankfully, but I am not going to manually erase each entry from the form.

900 total responses once the spam was removed with 154 of those being qualified.

Enjoyabilty

• 6.2 / 10 from the general playerbase (up from 6.0)
• 6.1 / 10 from the qualified playerbase (up from 6.0)

Competitiveness / Balance

• 6.3 / 10 from the general playerbase (up from 5.9)
• 5.9 / 10 from the qualified playerbase (up from 5.5)

This shows that both of these metrics have improved with each survey/ban since the release of DLC1.

• 3.78 / 5 from the general playerbase
• 4.39 / 5 from the qualified playerbase

Due to the overwhelming support it received in the tiering survey, Sneasler was quickbanned from SV OU.

• 3.94 / 5 from the general playerbase
• 3.85 / 5 from the qualified playerbase

Gholdengo has received more support with time, leaving it firmly in range of potential tiering action. I personally support a suspect, but there are still ongoing discussions as Gholdengo will start OU after DLC2 regardless of the result simply due to the vastly different metagame we are expecting to inherit. In order to properly handle the current metagame, we intend to discuss this at length here and here.

• 3.76 / 5 from the general playerbase
• 3.29 / 5 from the qualified playerbase

While Kingambit received a large amount of support, other Pokemon received noticably more. It will continue to be discussed in tiering circles in the future, where action may become more possible.

• 2.89 / 5 from the general playerbase
• 3.26 / 5 from the qualified playerbase

While Manaphy received a decent amount of support, other Pokemon received noticably more, including all three Pokemon above it. Manaphy will continue to be discussed in tiering circles in the future, where action may become more possible.

• 2.81 / 5 from the general playerbase
• 3.10 / 5 from the qualified playerbase

While Ogerpon-Wellspring received a decent amount of support, other Pokemon received noticably more, including all of the first three Pokemon listed. Ogerpon-Wellspring will continue to be discussed in tiering circles in the future, where action may become more possible.

 

[Ruft]

Hello everyone! The council is shifting its focus to the Indigo Disk DLC, which will be dropping on December 14th. To prepare, we are sharing this survey. The purpose of this survey is to gauge public opinion on which Pokemon should be unbanned from Ubers to OU with the release of the DLC. Following this survey, the council will conduct an unban vote on every Pokemon that received sufficient support. In order for a Pokemon that is currently Ubers to start in OU, it requires over 2/3 unban votes from the council to officially get unbanned. For this list we selected Pokemon that at least one council member agrees could be unbanned from Ubers to OU. This list does not include Pokemon that will be newly dropped to SV with the Indigo Disk DLC.

Anyone with a Smogon account may respond and we will be taking a particularly close look at those who have experience on the ladder or in tournaments. We will keep this open through 11:59 PM GMT-4 of Monday, December 11th, but the council will be reading responses as they come in to potentially act sooner, so respond when possible. It only takes a few minutes to respond, so please do so if you are invested in our metagame!

HERE is the 14th ever SV OU tiering survey. Please respond!!!

 

[Ruft]

Thank you for responding to the survey!
We received 1961 total responses (after deleting the spam and troll responses). Of these responses, 79 came from qualified players (after vetting).
Without further ado, here are the results (1 being remaining banned and 5 being unbanned):

Annihilape
General average: 2.30

Qualified average: 2.29

Baxcalibur
General average: 3.02

Qualified average: 2.71

Gliscor
General average: 3.57

Qualified average: 3.15

Landorus
General average: 2.58

Qualified average: 2.28

Ogerpon-Hearthflame
General average: 2.29

Qualified average: 2.14

Palafin
General average: 2.37

Qualified average: 2.28

Roaring Moon
General average: 3.37

Qualified average: 3.19

Sneasler
General average: 2.95

Qualified average: 2.62

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
General average: 2.31

Qualified average: 1.87

Urshifu (Single Strike)
General average: 2.22

Qualified average: 2.14

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
General average: 2.61

Qualified average: 2.58

Volcarona
General average: 3.97

Qualified average: 3.66

Zamazenta-Crowned
General average: 2.88

Qualified average: 2.66

Darkrai
General average: 3.71

Qualified average: 3.37

As for the responses about other Pokemon to unban from Ubers to OU, we got a large variety of answers, including Pokemon that aren't in the game yet. We will be keeping a close eye on the upcoming DLC and the Pokemon that will be dropping. I can already tell you that (regular) Kyurem will be starting in OU.

Based on these survey results, the council will be conducting an unban vote on the following Pokemon, which includes Pokemon above and also slightly below the 50% benchmark of 3/5 for both demographics, in order to be inclusive for our final metagame:

• Baxcalibur
• Gliscor
• Roaring Moon
• Sneasler
• Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
• Volcarona
• Zamazenta-Crowned
• Darkrai

In order for a Pokemon that is currently Ubers to start in OU, it requires over 2/3 unban votes from the council to officially get unbanned. Since the council consists of 10 members, it requires at least 7/10 council members to vote unban. You will hear about the results of this unban vote soon.
Annihilape, Landorus, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Palafin, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon and Urshifu (Single Strike) will not be revisited within the near future.

 

[Finchinator]

Hello everyone! DLC2 has now been out for a little bit and we are pivoting to our first community survey covering the DLC2 SV OU metagame!

A bit of a change this time: our surveys are now forum based! Thanks to the help of Lumari, we have switched up our survey form infastructure to avoid a problem we have had with spam and potential inaccuracies. This does mean you need a forum account to respond and some other things, which I hit on in the HIDE tag below.

What does this mean for you?

• You need a Smogon forum account to respond to these surveys
  • Message me on discord if you have questions about making one, but it is very easy to do and does not require any commitment or resources so much as having an email
• Your first response should be considered final
  • Make sure to double check your answers and message me on here or discord with any questions if need be
• Any messages containing responses that violate forum rules or are deemed inapropriate are subject to removal, punishment, and privleges being revoked depending on circumstances

Anyone with Smogon account may respond and we will be taking a particularly close look on those who have experience on the ladder or in tournaments. We will keep this open through 11:59 PM GMT-5 of Sunday, December 31st, but the council will be reading responses as they come in to potentially act sooner, so respond when possible. It only takes a few minutes to respond, so please do so if you are invested in our metagame!

HERE is the 15th ever SV OU tiering survey. Please respond!!!

 

[Finchinator]

The first forum-based tiering survey was an immense success. Not only did we not see a dropoff in participation, but we saw an uptick that would resemble what we would anticipate with a new release -- over 1150 unique users responded!

Enjoyment

• Qualified: 6.9 / 10
• General: 7.0 / 10

Our playerbase enjoys this metagame significantly more than the DLC1 metagame; we are around the highest marks we have seen this generation.

Competitiveness

• Qualified: 6.3 / 10
• General: 6.4 / 10

Our playerbase finds this metagame slightly more competitive than the DLC1 metagame; we are a little above historical averages here, but there is plenty of room to improve still.

Kokoloko Tiering

• Qualified: 47.9% support
• General: 48% support

While some people support the Kokoloko method of tiering, it is still a minority and well-short of the type of support needed to implement such a drastic shift in tiering.

• Qualified: 3.24 / 5
• General: 3.34 / 5

Roaring Moon received the most support out of any Pokemon included by a small margin, but it is still significantly below every suspect we had previously this generation aside from Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, which was suspected in closer proximity to other quickbans and a release, skewing the results (see: it ended up with >95% ban during the suspect). We purposefully waited a bit to survey this time around to let things settle, so seeing Roaring Moon here means we should continue to keep it on surveys and continue to discuss it as a potential suspect, but it is nowhere near a quickban with this support and we are not committed to any singular suspect currently.

• Qualified: 3.13 / 5
• General: 3.26 / 5

Gholdengo continues to be close to the forefront of tiering controversey. It received a lot of 5s, but also a lot of 1-2s throughout the qualified demographic. It still is not the most supported Pokemon and is well below the threshold for a normal suspect or where it was in the previous metagame even, but will absolutely be something we continue to monitor moving forward. For now, a suspect does not seem immediately likely, but things can change and future surveys will dictate a lot of the narrative here. A number of people on the tiering council have stated that they do not believe Gholdengo will magically fix the hazard removal problem, which many others have claimed when giving it high scores, but that is another conversation for another topic altogether.

• Qualified: 3.07 / 5
• General: 3.26 / 5

Deoxys-Speed initially seemed like the second most broken Pokemon behind Terapagos, which left very early on. Offensive variants proved to be quite threatening and versatile. However, the metagame growing more standardized has left it in a more middling position as it is still a great option that poses a threat, but limitations like lack of defensive presence, lack of raw breaking power, and natural adjustment over time have left it as a less likely subject of tiering action. It is still on our radar and will remain in discussions, but this support shows it is not likely for an immediate suspect either.

• Qualified: 3.05 / 5
• General: 3.23 / 5

Kingambit remains one of the best offensive options in the tier, finding itself stronger as games go on with Supreme Overlord and dynamic Tera options to flip many matchups in its favor. As it was during DLC1, it will remain on the radar as a potential suspect, but, also similarly to DLC1, it is not quite there yet as support lags behind a few other Pokemon. For now, it does not hit normal thresholds we would suspect a Pokemon under without immense council support or significant reason to push for it despite middling survey support. However, this can change in the future and it will likely remain on surveys.

• Qualified: 3.03 / 5
• General: 2.96 / 5

Safe to say: I was personally hoping this would score a bit higher. With that said, Kyurem had a fair amount of support to be the subject of tiering action, but not enough to stand-out among others and not necessarily enough for a suspect by conventional standards either. It is being discussed among councilmen and an overwhelming outcry could push it towards action, but I do not see that as a super plausible outcome as I type this. Assuming nothing happens, Kyurem will at least remain on our radar and on surveys as we move forward.

• Qualified: 2.71 / 5
• General: 2.75 / 5

At long last, everyone's favorite or least favorite dancing moth is back! For now, tiering action seems unlikely as it received relatively low scores. I am unsure if it will continue to be on tiering surveys, so stay tuned either way and we will see.

• Qualified: 2.65 / 5
• General: 2.61 / 5

Similarly to Kyurem: I was personally hoping this would score a bit higher. With that said, I am just one dude who absolutely should not singlehandedly overrule the playerbase or the council, so it is unlikely we see immediate action here. People may still be learning to adjust to using it or facing it -- the same can go for me and others potentially even. Gouging Fire is a very bulky and threatening option that offers a premium as a win condition that many others cannot match, but these scores leave it well outside of the range for potential action, so a greater dialogue will be saved for the future if it is ever deemed appropriate, not now.

Nothing else scored over 2.5 / 5 from qualified responses. To list them briefly: got a 2.49, got a 2.42, got a 2.24, and got a 2.00 from the qualified playerbase. None hit over 2.5 from the general responses either.

The SV OU tiering council will remain engaged with internal discussion about and participation in the metagame. Stay tuned for more in the future. Happy New Year!

 

[Finchinator]

Hello everyone! This is our second survey since the release of DLC2; it will include hot metagame topics like sleep and Terastallization as well as numerous Pokemon in the metagame! Please note the slightly abbreviated deadline and fill this out during the weekend if possible.

A bit of a change for current and future surveys: our surveys are now forum based! Thanks to the help of Lumari, we have switched up our survey form infastructure to avoid a problem we have had with spam and potential inaccuracies. This does mean you need a forum account to respond and some other things, which I hit on in the HIDE tag below.

What does this mean for you?

• You need a Smogon forum account to respond to these surveys
  • Message me on discord if you have questions about making one, but it is very easy to do and does not require any commitment or resources so much as having an email
• Your first response should be considered final
  • Make sure to double check your answers and message me on here or discord with any questions if need be
• Any messages containing responses that violate forum rules or are deemed inapropriate are subject to removal, punishment, and privleges being revoked depending on circumstances

Anyone with Smogon account may respond and we will be taking a particularly close look on those who have experience on the ladder or in tournaments. We will keep this open through 10:59 PM GMT-5 of Sunday, January 21st, but the council will be reading responses as they come in to potentially act sooner, so respond when possible. It only takes a few minutes to respond, so please do so if you are invested in our metagame!

HERE is the 16th ever SV OU tiering survey. Please respond this weekend!!!

 

[Finchinator]

Here are the results of the recent tiering survey, which had around 1000 unique responses with just over 150 qualified.

Enjoyment

• Qualified: 6.1 / 10
• General: 6.4 / 10

The enjoyment of the metagame took a slight hit with some strategies popping up that players may deem undesirable. More on this later, but we are working on addressing this and already have taken the first big step. This score is still ok, but there is a lot of room to improve.

Competitiveness

• Qualified: 5.7 / 10
• General: 6.1 / 10

Our playerbase finds the metagame somewhat competitive, but, much like enjoyment, it went down a tick and there is clearly room to improve. We are working on finding immediate solutions to this based on your feedback!

Terastallization

This was split up into two questions, so let's examine both individually.

Do you feel that any tiering action at all (ban or restriction) is needed on the topic of Terastallization?

• Qualified: 72 said Yes, 82 said No -- 46.8% support for tiering action on Terastallization
• General: 518 said Yes, 475 said No -- 52.2% support for tiering action on Terastallization

Do you feel that an outright ban of Terastallization is needed in SV OU?

• Qualified: 39 said Yes, 115 said No -- 25.3% support for an outright ban of Terastallization
• General: 275 said Yes, 718 said No -- 27.7% support of an outright ban of Terastallization

Sleep

Do you support tiering action on sleep-inducing moves? 1 indicates these moves are balanced, 3 indicates they are potentially banworthy, and 5 indicates they are banworthy.

• Qualified: 3.7 / 5
• General: 3.3 / 5

After a long discussion both within the SV OU subforum here and in the Policy Review subforum here, moves that strictly induce the sleep status on the opponent will be banned from SV OU and the Sleep Clause Mod will be removed from SV OU effective immediately. For more information on the ban, check here and, for explanation as to why it was a vote that included options for a ban and suspect, check here!

Pokemon...finally

• Qualified: 3.6 / 5
• General: 3.3 / 5

Kyurem got a lot of support and could be considered for a suspect in the immediate future.

• Qualified: 3.1 / 5
• General: 2.8 / 5

Gouging Fire received some support and will continue to be discussed internally with potential for future survey inclusion.

• Qualified: 3.3 / 5
• General: 3.2 / 5

Roaring Moon received noteworthy support and will continue to be included in both internal and public tiering discussions.

• Qualified: 2.6 / 5
• General: 2 / 5

Archaludon received limited support, but internal consensus is that Archaludon and Rain teams deserve greater discussion. The jury is still out as to what will happen and we are certainly not going to force or rush any action, but it is likely going to remain in talks despite lower scores, especially with recent trends on the ladder and in tournaments across this past weekend.

• Qualified: 2.9 / 5
• General: 3.1 / 5

Gholdengo received some support and will continue to be monitored moving forward.

• Qualified: 3.2 / 5
• General: 3.3 / 5

Kingambit received noteworthy support and will continue to be included in both internal and public tiering discussions.

• Qualified: 2.7 / 5
• General: 2.7 / 5

Deoxys-Speed received limited support and is unlikely to be considered for tiering action at this time.

As for other notes:

• Many people cited Raging Bolt as a concern
• Some people cited Drizzle and Barraskewda as concerns
• Some people cited Volcarona as a concern
• Some people cited Tera Blast as a concern
• Few people cited Booster Energy as a concern
• Few people cited Gliscor as a concern
• Few people cited Zamazenta as a concern
• Few people cited Iron Boulder as a concern
• Few people cited Lugia as a retest candidate
• Few people cited Stored Power as a concern

 

[Finchinator]

Hello everyone! This is our third survey since the release of DLC2 and 17th overall this generation. We will be maintaining the forum based format described above. We will be tackling nine Pokemon we are interested in your input on (for the sake of being as inclusive as we can) as well as other topics like Tera.

Anyone with Smogon account may respond and we will be taking a particularly close look on those who have experience on the ladder or in tournaments. We will keep this open through 11:59 PM GMT-5 of Friday, March 1st, but the council will be reading responses as they come in to potentially act sooner, so respond when possible. It only takes a few minutes to respond, so please do so if you are invested in our metagame!

HERE is the 17th ever SV OU tiering survey. Please respond!!!

 

[Finchinator]

Here are the results of the recent tiering survey, which had around 1000 unique responses with 110 qualified. I am posting this a few hours before the deadline because I am busier IRL this weekend and results have stopped coming in as frequently with the first two+ days already passing.

Enjoyment

• Qualified: 6.0 / 10
• General: 6.1 / 10

The enjoyment of the metagame is satisfactory, but it took a slight hit with new threats popping up. We are working on addressing this and already have planned the first big step. There is room to improve.

Competitiveness

• Qualified: 5.5 / 10
• General: 5.8 / 10

Our playerbase finds the metagame somewhat competitive, but, much like enjoyment, it went down a tick and there is clearly room to improve. We have already planned a line of action that addresses the feedback provided.

Terastallization

This was split up into two questions, so let's examine both individually.

Do you feel that any tiering action at all (ban or restriction) is needed on the topic of Terastallization?

• Qualified: 51 said Yes, 59 said No -- 46.4% support for tiering action on Terastallization
• General: 518 said Yes, 447 said No -- 53.7% support for tiering action on Terastallization

Do you feel that an outright ban of Terastallization is needed in SV OU?

• Qualified: 31 said Yes, 79 said No -- 28.2% support for an outright ban of Terastallization
• General: 273 said Yes, 692 said No -- 28.3% support of an outright ban of Terastallization

Speaking personally: I find an outright ban on Terastallization quite unlikely given these numbers, which are close to a repeat of last time. We will continue to monitor this topic and include Tera on future surveys if deemed appropriate.

Pokemon

• Qualified: 4.1 / 5
• General: 3.5 / 5

Gouging Fire received alarming amounts of support. It is expected to be the next suspect this weekend or early next week.

• Qualified: 3.6 / 5
• General: 2.5 / 5

The difference in scores is kind of hilarious here. I think high ladder and tournaments have illustrated how hard it is to switch in to Ogerpon-Wellspring while it is very common and fulfills a few big roles on teams; multiple council members have even stated it is their #1 priority tiering wise. We are going to wait a little on it now, but it is close to the top of our priority list. The qualified score is nothing to laugh at.

• Qualified: 3.4 / 5
• General: 3.4 / 5

Roaring Moon received noteworthy support and will continue to be included in both internal and public tiering discussions. It is a possible suspect candidate in the future, but it is not going to be prioritized over Gouging Fire, who received overwhelming support.

• Qualified: 3.3 / 5
• General: 3.1 / 5

Volcarona received noteworthy support and will continue to be included in both internal and public tiering discussions. It is not seen as a big priority right now with the Pokemon above kept in mind, but we are not ignoring it either.

• Qualified: 3.2 / 5
• General: 3.0 / 5

Raging Bolt received noteworthy support and will continue to be included in both internal and public tiering discussions. It will likely not be addressed in the immediate future unless change occurs, but eventually it is possible depending on how things go.

• Qualified: 3.0 / 5
• General: 3.5 / 5

Kingambit received noteworthy support and will continue to be included in both internal and public tiering discussions. It is amusing to see the inverse trend of normal with general putting it higher than the qualified, but we will monitor it regardless and include it in the future surveys in all likelihood.

Nothing else scored over a 3. Gholdengo was a 2.6 qualified and 2.9 general, making it the closest. Zamazenta was a 2.2 qualified and a 2.3 general while Garganacl was a 2.1 qualified and a 2.9 general to round things out. None are likely to receive prompt tiering action given this.

Honorable mentions (among qualified only): Kyurem (12), Solgaleo (1), Stored Power (4), Heat Rock (2), Damp Rock (1), Tera Blast (6), Gliscor (12), Quick Claw (4), Unaware (1), Dragapult (2), Lugia (3), Spikes (1), Paralysis (1), Booster Energy (4), Boots (1), Cacturne (1), Urshifu-Single (2), Urshifu-Rapid (1), Sleep unban (1), RIllaboom (1), Iron Valiant (2), Sneasler (1), Quick Draw (1), Dondozo (3), Sticky Webs (1), Electro Shot (1), "DEFENSE BOOSTING MOVES" (1), Ting Lu (1), Iron Moth (1), Samurott-H (1), and Weavile (1)

Some of you guys are...