There is no clause in the current tiering policy dictating anything should be decided on scale/scope -- i.e: something "major" or "minor" relative to other things does not dictate different handling when it falls under the scope of uncompetitive.
There is no requirement -- it is dependent on council opinion, metagame timing/circumstance, and so on. Surveys in particular are not binding and depend on a lot of factors
No, nothing will change because sleep wasn't that popular to start with. iirc Iron Valiant doesn't even use Hypnosis in its top 10 moves lol
The stats from december, before people started using sleep? I don't really trust those.
Not a whole lot. Darkrai and valiant's best sets didn't use hypnosis, though not having to deal with those sets is definetely a positive. Amoonguss will fall a bit, as it will have to use either toxic or stun spore if it want's to use status. Yawn mons are definetely the most affected, which in OU are clodsire, dondozo, skeledirge, slowking galar and torkoal, as they are more passive by not forcing switches as often.
Just a reminder that the only Electric Terrain setter we currently have is fucking Pincurchin.
Trust me, I've tried an electric terrain team, and pinchurchin sucks ass. The only reason why I played with the team for more than one game was because I found it a neat idea, it wasn't even good.
If sleep is such a big problem apparently yes
Why not fucking read one of the several posts where Finch explains why they didn't just ban Darkrai? Like this one for example.
Looks like Kyurem is gonna get
Welp you know what time it is.
No need to be so aggressive I have read it but just seems weird to outright ban all sleep because the biggest abuser of it was unbanned
If you read it, you would know it was not at all just because "the biggest abuser of it was unbanned" though -- in fact, I outright explained it multiple times over in the post he was alluding.
That's because the best abuser was probably HypnoHex Iron Valiant, not Darkrai. While Darkrai is far more famous as a sleep user, Valiant was able to run a legitimately powerful set that Hypnosis augmented, rather than merely being used as a way to cheese free setup turns.
I mean I think the main flaw in this argument is that Valiant is a problem without sleep, the mon has dodged a suspect all gen. So when you put it like that you have 1 mon that should've been suspected and banned months ago as one of the main reasons to ban something, and the other is a pokemon that we unbanned from Ubers, and people think that's stupid that a status was banned because of two pokemon.
I responded to your first point here and idk what more you want from me bud i have 34 posts since we banned sleep last night answering everything possible and grouped it all into an all-encompassing post, too
Thank you, it’s noted. Definitely not complaining about a lack of transparency.
The reason why people have acted that way is because people do not read the reasons why sleep was banned. It is a multi-faceted issue that is not as simple as "Darkrai is busted with hypnosis", finch has made abundantly clear why and has cited his reasoning multiple times. When people say they've read it and ask simple questions that have been explained in finch's reasoning, you are going to get annoyed. Most likely, all questions have been answered already, plus, valiant, while powerful, is not egregious anymore, as it does have counterplay. It ain't even the fastest mon in the tier, so it can't outspeed everything.
The thing is that we made the decision based off a lot of justification and all I can do is provide it as accurately as possible, which I tried to do in my second post in the ban thread tonight. I am not going to reverse a decision just because some of the public disagrees (when data shows a majority favors and people who oppose something are obviously more inclined to speak out)
Because they weren’t the only two problematic abusers. The council as a whole has repeatedly cited no less than four problematic OU abusers: HynoRai, HypnoHexVal, Sleep Powder Chlorophyll Lilligant-H, and Red Card Amoonguss. All of them have already been discussed multiple times at length by multiple people. When you factor in that we had four concurrent abusers with an already nerfed mechanic, this is less comparable to a King’s Rock ban and more comparable to the Baton Pass ban, where more and more problematic scenarios continued to crop up after Baton Pass had already been limited.
You’re missing another reason we got rid of sleep clause: it’s a modification of gameplay mechanics and therefore incompatible with modern Smogon tiering. This was a huge part of the argument for it to be removed to begin with, and has been a matter of contention for a long time. Sleep Clause should not be assumed to be the baseline; unrestricted sleep is the baseline.
