Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[SittinGamer]

In other words, if you want action get better at the game I guess?

Unironically yes. I've only made it to high ladder like once and then plunged back down so I'm not even saying this as someone particularly good or anything, but it isn't really a secret that action is primarily decided on and carried out by the wills of the qualified playerbase. Suspect targets with high qualified scores are (usually) looked at first and the suspect test system is a competency check to see if you are good enough to have an opinion worth a vote.

This still ignores that even the non qualified playerbase in favor of a Tera ban is the minority, but yeah, if you want to make an impact on the tier, the best way to do that is to play well enough to get reqs and act on them. As was discussed in the Volcarona thread, you don't NEED to make your justification for your vote known. If you are good enough, you can, even if marginally, effect the outcome.

 

[ant4456]

Not sure if that kind of infrastructure is even available; remember, Smogon is run by unpaid volunteers.

Any argument of "infrastructure" is ridiculous considering the fact that we literally run tiers with Suspect Test voter lists that range from a dozen to maybe two. That, and we have not even that long ago still, had SWSH OU, BDSP OU and NatDex OU (and lower tiers) running at the same time.

If there is a will there will be a way, it's that having an active competitor to OU in a very direct sense is not desirable to staff right now.

 

[ant4456]

>Vocal minority starts making a bigger racket than usual
"GuYs It SeEmS lIkE wE sHoUlD lOoK aT tErA nOw!1!1! LoOk At AlL tHe DiScUsSiOn!"

You can't just "no u" the "non tera people should mostly bite the bullet" post. The issue isn't even whether the mechanic is balanced or not but the fact there literally is not the support you imagine to be there from either the unqualified OR qualified player pool. It isn't happening because people have weighed their opinion survey. after survey. after survey. And despite it all, support for action only goes down over time. The deflection for this, to me, seems to be "uhhh they left the meta I'm SURE more people hate it!" but like, if so, get them to vote on surveys. They're accessible and the thread name changes for it.

Tera action simply does not look to be in the cards unless there is a drastic change in public sentiment from players whose voices actually matter (qualified).

I love how posts like this act like anti-Tera is a super fringe aspect when literally by your fucking proof, a bit under 1/3rd of the playerbase wants Tera explicitly banned, as a statistic from the Qualified Playerbase.

Do you know how high of a number that is, for a tier where literally every dynamic is effected by that mechanic? Of the Qualified Players that actively make themselves play the tier, and thus are more biased to actually liking the tier than otherwise, still around 1/3rd want a complete ban on Tera.

And that is before the prior question! 46.4% support for tiering action from a qualified playerbasein the last survey. Are you crazy? Tera is absolutely extremely controversial amongst the Qualified Playerbase, and that is not even debatable.

Let me put it this way: If the onus for the status quo was the other way around, there would not be enough support to keep Terastilization in its entirety in OU.

And yes, admitting you want restrictions on Tera is absolutely anti Tera in a sense. You are admitting that Tera is a problem and needs changes. And I will stress, one more time: This is a biased statistic in the favor of pro-Tera. Because despite your snide comments, yes, people do stop playing a tier when they do not like it.

This is the players that were proven (at least a month ago) to have been keeping up with the tier, and qualified to have an opinion on it. SV OU qualified players find it controversial by around a 50/50 split, not just a "loud minority". And lest we forget that if like three votes went the other way around back then in the Terastilization Suspect, it would not have even survived three months without limitation.

Terastilization is the most divisive issue I have experienced while spectating and playing competitive Pokemon, because it is quite literally 50/50. It is a loud minority to dislike Tera, it is literally an even position.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I love how posts like this act like anti-Tera is a super fringe aspect when literally by your fucking proof, a bit under 1/3rd of the playerbase wants Tera explicitly banned, as a statistic from the Qualified Playerbase.

a bit over 1/3rd of americans believe in astrology. should i start making my decisions based on whether mercury is in retrograde or jupiter is in uranus or whatever bullshit they say?

Do you know how high of a number that is, for a tier where literally every dynamic is effected by that mechanic?

true, 1/3 is a pretty high number. you know what's higher? the 2/3 who don't want tera banned

And that is before the prior question! 46.4% support for tiering action from a qualified playerbasein the last survey. Are you crazy? Tera is absolutely extremely controversial amongst the Qualified Playerbase, and that is not even debatable.

all right, let's translate 46.4% to the 1-to-5 scale we use for literally every other aspect of the game besides tera. multiplying 46.4% by the scale's range of 4 (since it's not 0 to 5), then adding 1 (because the lowest rating is 1), we get 2.856, which isn't enough to even repeat on a survey. this of course makes a lot of assumptions about the average rating of things, but with large enough numbers those tend to kind of even themselves out, so if i'm being generous you're getting maybe a 3 on a 1-5 scale. my theory is that the only reason we're using percentages at all is to make your side look less unpopular than it is because you'd cry otherwise

Let me put it this way: If the onus for the status quo was the other way around, there would not be enough support to keep Terastilization in its entirety in OU.

and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike. we can talk about hypotheticals all day but ultimately the way things are is how they are, and for better or for worse, those are the rules we have to play by

And I will stress, one more time: This is a biased statistic in the favor of pro-Tera. Because despite your snide comments, yes, people do stop playing a tier when they do not like it.

so what? if people are so weak-willed that they quit the tier forever just because they can't stand the funny hat mechanic, why should we be catering towards them instead of the people sticking around and lobbying for change?

 

[SittinGamer]

Given that even the restriction camp, which is larger than the full ban camp, is not even 50% of qualified responders (and only barely over 50% among unqualified voters), I do not think it is disingenuous or bad faith framing to say the anti tera crowd is, definitionally, a minority right now.

Also, any tiering decision whatsoever can cause an exodus of players. You have no proof, and thus rely on "oh well the people that agree with me stopped playing but we should listen and tier based on their opinions." This is because you agree with them. People certainly left when Dynamax was banned, but I'm sure you wouldn't suggest we tier based on those people who left the tier's opinions on the matter.