Resource SV LC Viability Rankings

[wesh papillon]

nominating to b+/a-

It's really hard to overlook just how potent being grass immune is in this metagame. Orb and grookey and very common and being able to keep the immunity to grass even after tera typing Is very valuable. On top of that, it is quite bulky, with the same stats like as a rest bray(24 14 16), however, it has much much better recover.

Bulk up is also really helpful, with the extra bulk u can muscle past through a lot of pokemon by tanking hits and just healing it back with horn leech.

Finally, while I would say it is tera reliant, Skiddo is very good as a ground (or maybe even rock) type. Resisting poison is very valuable for it, and it can really fuck up pokemons like foongus.

After laddering with it a lot, Id say its better then The Pokemon in b+ but worst then almsot every thing in a-, as despite its very strong strengths, its not without flaws. Mainly just how status and knock weak it can feel at times. None the less, in an orb/ grass spam meta, I would never sleep on this mon

Skiddo @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 5
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 SpD
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide
- Bulk Up
- Milk Drink

Editing this as i go, im just picking the replays from the first 3-5 games I find on ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9lc-1909183786-2mckwdg9tbx9zybztw6czjqliwmr4vopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9lc-1909189673-mhzop5p4him0oeiq2x4rtgbuvhmrn83pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9lc-1909191022-89nzx8gr2k8ad1gec15hyryv1kub17hpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9lc-1909191871-klw51tp8x41gkyiomcaimi5iq7j4im0pw

 

[wesh papillon]

it is 4am and im bored​

These are tournament options u can expect to see from normal ppl (b- is really closer to C then B in popularity, but u could see these pop up in lcpl and win)

u could see these on ladder tier and some whackos might use some in tournaments

LOL

 

[FlygonFlygonFlygon]

Initial Thoughts on the DLC meta:

Some New Pokemon

Mienfoo: S tier. Still crazy good. Regenerator is always amazing and knock off, fake out, u-turn still make this thing a monster. Ban worthy. It shapes the meta. It can be countered by things like gothita or drifloon and burning it is really good.

Corphish: A+. A great pokemon that makes use of priority which was something that the old meta didn't see to much of. Counters Numel and Mubray 2 of the top pokemon and can set up to replace shellder on a team.

Turtwig: B or B+. It's worse than Shellder for a shellsmash user because no priority unless in grassy terrain. Its better than Chewtle because of it's good movepool with things like iron head, body slam, crunch.

Bellsprout: B-. I did not expect this from the sprout but it makes sun team more viable. It hits decently hard with a max attack of 18 or sp attack of 17. In sun with chlorophyl it hits 28 speed max. The only thing is that it's frail to the point where priority ice shard cripple it.

Phantump: C or D. I really wanted this thing to be good. It's just a better Smolive because of the type and moves. It hits decently hard with a base 70 attack and takes hits ok. Good movepool but meh stats. I might use it for fun but not to be competitive.

The Sandshrews: C or D. These guys are ok on weather of sand and snow respectively because of their ability's. They hit well and can take a few physical attacks but special moves cripple them. Kinda mid.

Koffing: B. Two good ability's in levitate and neutralizing gas. A great defense stat and a passable spdef stat. Walls Mienfoo well. Stoping it's regenerator and making it's stab do less. Destiny bond and pain split are also good.

Timburr: A-. Slower than Crabrawler hits less hard than crabrawler and takes hits about the same due to having lower defenses but a much higher attack. It's better because of its moves and ability's. It has sheer force, guts and iron fist 3 great offensive ability's and access to mach punch, knock off and fire punch. (3 moves Crabrawler lacks) Guts gives it a boost to close combat. Get's outclassed by Mienfoo (What fighting type doesn't)

Comments on old mons

Crabrawler: Still B+. Don't change a thing. The og crab still packs a punch with iron fist. He may be out classed by two new fighting types but is a valid replacement for timburr on a team if you chose to go iron fist for Timburr.

Wingull: B+ or A-. The gull is a good counter to the new fighting types Mienfoo and Timburr. Wingull is fast and hits hard. He resists Fighting and Bug moves that Mienfoo runs and can OHKO with life orb Hurricane.

Mareanie: B- or B: Walls Mienfoo. What more is there to say.

Pawniard: A. New fighting types scare this thing horrifically.

Gothita: Maybe A+. Counters Mienfoo and threatens a kill.

Overall summary:

The new gen 9 LC meta is a very different game than before. Fighting types went from hardly used to very common. In turn, Psychics, Flyings, Ghosts and Bugs are now better. The offence of the tier has probably just increased even further and a teams will have to play into Mienfoo more.

 

[NotJackewu]

Early thoughts of a new meta, subject to change.

As for the new mons, the most notable are the ones that have been notable in previous generations. We only got one truly new Pokemon, which is Poltchageist. It doesnt get the move Matcha Gotcha, only it's evolution does. So theres not really a reason to use it (B-).

+ + = S
If you spend 10 minutes on ladder you will understand why these Pokemon are by far the best in the tier. Mienfoo's Ability let's it come in on most mons and pop back out with U-turn or you can run Scarfed Reckless instead and blow shit up.
Vullaby has insane bulk and any time its hit by a physical move it will probably kill one of your Pokemon. I have run Nasty Plot Vullaby, Iron Defense Nasty Plot Vullaby, Scarfed Physical Vullaby and Pivot Vullaby. All of these versions are insanely strong. Suspect test this Pokemon soon please.
Voltorb-Hisui is still just as good as it was before, getting a Paralysis through Static on whatever Pokemon wants to U-turn you (Usually Vullaby and Mienfoo) is huge if not game winning.

A+ Koffing's ability Neutralizing Gas has so many usecases it's honestly absurd. Whether you want to stop Regenerator Pokemon from healing or Sun/Hail/Rain/Sandstorm Pokemon to lose their Speed boost in their dedicated weather, Koffing can do it all. I myself have been running quite some Scarf Koffing with great success. It threathens Voltorb-H and Mienfoo while also keeping a hold on all the weather sweepers.

A+ Gothita is as hard to pilot as ever, especially now that another strong Dark Type has dropped into the tier. Being able to trap Mienfoo, Glimmet or Timburr can open up other teammates to set up and sweep the game.

A+ Glimmet is able to annoy Pokemon like Mienfoo and (Physical) Vullaby. Both of these Pokemon want to click U-turn whenever they can and punishing that with it's toxic spikes is really nice. Most people are running Koffing as their dedicated Poison type which doesnt threathen Glimmet very much (Fire Blast, Sludge Bomb usually).

A+ Just like Mienfoo and Vullaby, Timburr used to be a good Pokemon in oldgens and the new pool of Pokemon isn't going to show any resistance to it. Whether youre running this as your dedicated Defogger or a Bulk Up variant, it will usually be tanky enough to stay around while hitting hard with Drain Punch to keep it healthy.

A+ Sandshrew-Alola is one of my favorite Pokemon that dropped through the DLC. Ive seen some people question how good it would be, I personally think it easily hits A+ tier if not top of A tier. Loaded Dice Tera Ice Icicle Spear hits everything that isnt a Water type of which there aren't many due to Voltorb-Hisui making their lives miserable. Combined with Icy Rock Snover this Pokemon often sweeps games.
You can also use it outside of Snow, or so I am told. I personally dont really understand why you would choose it over something like Toedscool.

A Corphish is a Water type with Adaptability, which would be great if not for Hisuian-Voltorb. If we ever get around to banning Hisuian-Voltorb, Corphish will become a serious threat. Until then it's down in the A tier which is still good.

A Tinkatink got a lot better with the release of Vullaby and Mienfoo (I also think it got Knock Off through TM's?). A serious lack of answers in the current meta was the perfect opportunity for Tinkatink to show what it's worth. So far it feels pretty good to use, although people are adapting to it by running Tera Ground Vullaby or just Clicking High Jump Kick with Mienfoo.

A Snover got a lot better once Alolan Sandshrew finally dropped. Since Vulpix-Alola was banned on day 1, this was the next best Snow Setter in the tier. It can afford to run Icy Rock while keeping a bunch of Bulk through Snow, gen 9 couldnt have made Snover any better than it is in its current form.

A- Charmander was already a Sun Sweeper before. Before the DLC dropped Sun wasnt very notable, but now that we have Bellsprout there is atleast somewhat of a reason to run Sun. That said Charmander can be stopped by Hazards and Priority rather quickly and wants to run Tera Fire to be able to sweep. The combination of these factors makes it a A- tier mon. An unprepared player can easily get swept by this demon, but any competent player should be able to pilot themselves around this threat.

A- Munchlax is severely underused. Thick Fat gives it a good matchup versus Hail and Sun teams, while it' Special Bulk allows it to tank threaths like Hisuian-Voltorb. My personal favorite set is Tera Fairy Rest-Talk, which can put a stop to Mienfoo, Timburr and Vullaby all of which are pretty high value targets in this meta.

B+ Stunky got access to Defog. That is really the only reason I wanted to mention this Pokemon.

B+ Grookey got access to Grassy Glide, but the move is worse than it was before. Grassy Terrain Wood Hammer remains scary, but it can't click it as freely now that it has to worry about Koffing, Vullaby and Voltorb-Hisui.

B+ If you played LC right before the DLC dropped, you will have seen these two run around. Now that the power balance has shifted, they will probably fall out of favor. Shellder did gain access to Icicle Spear once more, but im afraid it's little too late for it now.

B Bellsprout is the best Chlorophyll Pokemon in the tier. Although that doesn't say much. It's pretty underwhelming still, relying on Tera to do litteraly anything. Just wait for to drop before investing any stock in the Sun team Structure.

B Sandshrew has access to Sand Rush, but unlike its Alolan counterpart it doesnt really have the typing to do much in the current meta. The best set is probably a Tera Bug, Leech Life, Swords Dance set which is sadly vulnerable to getting Paralyzed by Static which straight up loses you the game. Its too slow to do much besides set up Stealth Rocks and while Rapid Spin is nice, when do you get to click it without being threatened by something afterwards?

B Shell Smash Turtwig is not as scary as I would like it to be. It clicks Shell Smash, gets one kill, and is then taken care of by Mienfoo, Vullaby or Koffing. It does get access to Stealth Rocks, but I havent been able to get it to work.

C Why did they gave Sentret Tidy Up? Such a waste. This Pokemon sucks.

That's it for the Pokemon that I found worth mentioning. For people who hate reading I have included a visual representation of my Viability Rankings. It's hard to rank the Pokemon in B+ and below in order of how good they are as they all fulfill different roles (who can say whether Diglett-Alola or Munchlax is better?) so dont focus too much on the order of rankings inside one tier.
(Make your own Viability Rankings by clicking this link)

 

[SpyderMarz]

Honestly, the Gen 9 LC we knew is almost unrecognizable. Old mons are back with new tricks, and newer ones are getting moves from the past. The metagame is really fun to play right now, and I enjoyed teambuilding with these old/new tools. I had a few thoughts on a few mons, so here’s my contribution to the vr. Some are pretty obvious, and there are a few hot takes as well. Might as well start from the top lol

(S)
Nothing I can say here that hasn't already been said. Great stats, great kit, regenerator, knock off to kill would-be checks, many great TTypes and more make this easily the strongest in the tier.

(S)
Same here, this this's speed and insane stab plus the ability to get on and off the field easily are even more valuable with the DLC dropping. Easy S tier.

(A+)
Great mon, though slightly overrated in my opinion. It strength include its immunities, bulk, setup moves and... that's about it? Given the sheer amount of viable speedy electrics there are, and its abilities being either useless or weak armor (which, upon activation, lowers vullaby's best stat), Vullaby definitely isn't on the same level as orb or mienfoo.

(A+)
I kinda have the same thing to say for both of these guys. They both are walls with lots of useful resistances that also absorb tspikes. If you want a mon that better suited for resisting as many types as possible and inflicting statuses, foongus is your best bet, but if you want better offensive capabilities, knock off, and being gothita-proof, go with grimer-a. Both are solid additions to any team.

(A)
Grassy Glide is back, and while it's slightly worse that in gen 8, I think it's still enough to leave this mon where it is. (also makes a great partner for mienfoo, but i'm not getting into that rn)

(A)
Crab but better (and more annoying to fight). Also gets Defog I guess? I won't be running it over mienfoo but I can see why people like it.

(A)
It's got so many new things it can trap now, from timburr to koffing. Watch out for vullaby tho (unless you've got tbolt)

(A-)
Nymble is slightly better than before due to its ability to consistently switch in and kill mienfoo and timburr. (honestly the amount of offensive pivots we have right now is crazy)

(A-)
I've always believed in this lil guy, and now he's got a partner who can make use of the snow he creates. Being weak to fighting is a huge setback, but it's still extremely good.

(A-)
Being a check to all the top 3 mons is huge. Kills mienfoo with flying, kills vullaby with electric, and walls orb with volt absorb and its grass resistance. Great mon all around, maybe even could go in A tier

(Alolan form - A- Standard Form B+)
The snow version is better in snow than the regular one is in sand. But on their own, I'd say the ground type variant is more useful. It can block v-switches and set up some rocks as the electric mon swaps out. But the Ice version has a 4x fighting weakness as well as a 4x fire weakness. That means it just dies to timburr and mienfoo as well as the funny cyndaquil/larvesta sets people still use. also gets trapped by magnemite and killed by flash cannon. Still, Alolan form is really good on snow so it's slightly higher.

(B+)
Good mon with great abilities and good defense. Also has a pretty decent set of moves. Competes with foongus and grimer-a for a slot however.

(B)
SubSeed Harvest is funny. Also its a ghost. I think I can say that all ghosts are better than before due to there being more spinners, therefore spin blockers get better. Also if you have a ghost you can make mienfoo miss its hi jump kick and die

(B-)
Oh, how the mighty have fallen. These mons once were the best in the tier, but have been completely ruined by the DLC. Pawniard's typing allowed it to come in almost anytime it wanted to, and it had so many unique sets, each with its own strategy. Crab was the tier's best setup sweeper, making excellent use of iron fist to lay waste upon LC. Toed was the peak of utility in the tier, with its electric immunity, spore, knock, rapid spin, and more. Fast forward to now. Mienfoo and Timburr were the final nail in Pawn's coffin, and completely outclass Crab. Toed fell off when foongus surged in popularity, and now its greatest weakness (ice) has been buffed by sandshrew-a. (also i find it funny that the new big 3 also consists of a offensive fighting, a defensive dark with setup moves, and a fast grass type, just like these guys.)

(B-)
Why are people using this thing again? It needs tera to be any good, especially with the fightings running around.

(B-)
lol tidy up/ last resort sets are funny

(C)
The worst shellsmasher in the tier. It has no good moves to abuse shell smash with, its stat spread is not ideal for the role it plays, and its a grass type, so it's competing with orb and grookey. Additionally, its ability is trash.

That’s it for now, I didn’t feel like discussing every single mon. In summary, almost everything about gen 9 LC has changed, for better or worse. What once was meta-defining is now pushed to the sidelines, and mons that were jokes before are getting some much needed attention. Even so, there is a clear king of the meta, and while it might be a bit early for a suspect test, keep an eye on Mienfoo.

 

[jncsnf]

I've been using koffing and tinkatink on ladder and they do very well. Knock off on a mon with such an absurd defensive typing and pretty good utility movepool like rocks, twave, and encore. Tinkatink could also run sd but I don't expect it to be very good. Fairy/Steel also matches up really well into top tier mons like fightings, vullaby, and its spdef makes it a solid check into voltorb.
Koffing hits 30 defense with eviolite which is just stupid in lc. It having wisp to cripple physical threats further, and neutralising gas to dodge gothita's trap and deny mienfoo regen among other things is just so good plus levitate can be used as a sturdy check to mudbray with wisp to cripple it offensively. It also denies boosting abilities like sheer force or iron fist.

 

[wesh papillon]

I think is vr is misleading, and through no fault of the vr council.

this meta has a clear cut top 3, and they all have their own checks and such, this mostly comprises the A tier. This is all fine and good.

B tier is where it gets weird. Imo the gap between a- and b+ is def noticeable. But then the gap between b+ and b is very big imo

If a new player were to show me a team with one of these mons, I wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.

These guys are different tho, other than stunky which I think should’ve been higher, I would most definitely raise an eyebrow at any of these.

i think putting the B close to B+ is very misleading. The little blurb above c and d tier that says these Pokémon are sus should be above the B tier.

Compared to pre dlc or ss, the c and d tier feel completly useless, as the majority of these mons have basically no viable niche, having them randomly be on the vr doesn’t really make sense imo.

I think the B tier should be reserved for:

A) Pokémon with a clear viable role on standard build, that may struggle a little more then the staples.

Stuff like watt or pawn fit this description for me

or

B) Pokémon that are good on self contained archetype

charmander, bellsprout, buizel, psyduck and Impidimp for example

And then C could be the once in a lifetime mu fish unmons only Canadian brings like munchlax



I think this would make the vr more representative of the actual tier and give new players a much more honest glance at the tier

 

[jncsnf]

I agree, I've seen things like diglett-a used far too often on mid ladder and changing the vr to be more conducive to actual niches these mons could fill would be better. One addition I would make to the b tier is mons that are mostly overshadowed by other mons, but have defined niches that those mons can't fill, like a better matchup into a specific mon that could be useful on teams weak to that threat.

 

[DreamyFleur]

A -> A+ With week 2 of world cup just ending**, there have been countless porygons that have won games from positions that seem unfavorable. Being able to get an agility off while teraing out of its weakness allows the mon to outspeed scarf gastly with a timid nature, while the +1 SpA boost it gets will allow it to ohko majority of things. There is also the scarf set that exists on it, and hitting 21 speed outspeeds any non-scarf mon which can also clean up 2-3 pokemon to win a game.

It is true that the mon does miss out on rolls with a timid nature (such as not being to ohko vullaby) however all you need to do is run something to get rocks up, and you win. Since most hazard removal right now is defog vullaby (not much toeds or tenta or even timburr), it is forced to take that chip damage which puts it in range.

When compared to the other pokemon in the A+ tier (esp Snivy), to me this mon would fit right in. The set of having agility with tera blast (ground or fire), psychic, and ice beam (or tbolt) allows the mon to cover all of the big threats while being able to get +1 spA on majority of pokemon.

**I think we will also see a lot of porygon in week 3, and there may be new checks/counters to it but right now there are not that many that fit into a team or are viable to use. I also do not believe that just week 2 determines my opinion, but with scraggy being banned the mon has had an insane run recently.
--
A+ -> A Looking at the other mons in the A+ tier, stunky seems to be one that stands out to me. While I am a huge fan of using the mon due to is ability to abuse temper flare, I do not think it has the power nor ability to take over a game like snivy or porygon does. The main issue with the mon is that it is a grounded poison in a meta where mudbray/digglet-a/ trapinch exists and are all solid picks on a team. While it is a tspikes absorber, the mon folds to all these ground types. From what I have also seen with wc games, is less and less steel types, which makes temper flare less valueable. Being able to have knock and sucker is still strong for the mon, and to me it fits in well with other A tier mons.

I also believe that the mon does not have the versatality of gastly, which can run multiple sets and provide a lot of value for a team. Stunky is strong, however having it on a team takes up a grounded poison type, and with three other ground types still popular, it should not be in the A+ tier

--
I also think diglett-a and tink should be in A- , but I will write abt those when I have more time. Maybe tenta for B since its actually not that bad..

 

[Bella]

So its been literal ages since i've written a serious post about LC, but i decided nows the time to write about it again, so here we are.

A -> A+
I've been running this a bit on ladder and oh my god is it as potent as i remembered from SS. I think Agility Pory is the best set right now, w Tera you can easily get a chance to setup on stuff like Snubbull, Glimm, or even something more potent like Gastly and get a +2 Speed boost and win. Coverage as always is great since you p much can have the ability to hit every mon in the tier with super effective coverage with Psychic, Tbolt, Ice Beam, or Tera.

A+ -> A / A-
Honestly i never really got why Snivy was ranked so high in the first place on the VR. I mainly feel like its just a mon too reliant on Tera to get the job done. Especially w stuff like skunk, foong, gastly, and others who all match up well into it and are all extremely common. It kind of forces you to waste Tera which can be unfavorable in some cases. Don't get me wrong, still a great Pokemon, just not something i see as A+ material at the same likes of Gast and Skunk.

STAYS AT A+
I'm going to provide my counterargument to DreamyFleur wanting a drop in the VR for skunk; I don't think it not being able to take games on its own does not make it A+ tier. Personally, i think its still A+ mainly because of how well it matches up into most of the tier that is not a Trapinch or a Bray, since it has a favorable mu into many top tiers like Glimmet, Snubb, Snivy, and Gastly. Being a poison that does not fear Goth is also extremely big imo. Idt its that hard to deal w Trapinch / Bray either, since stuff like Snivy or whatever can still take them out. Pretty happy w its current placement, imo.

B- -> B / B+
I think this is a mon thats getting slept on big time. I've been running the old LO mixed sets like in SS and SM to fun effect, since it has coverage for literally everything. A tier w no Diglett K too makes it alot more potent and difficult to play around for alot of teams imo. And thats not to even mention Knock Off giving it much more utility! VR underrates this mon extremely and idt thats an extremely hot take atp.

 

[teamo]

I feel bored and have played way too much ladder for my own good so here we are

A -> B
This mon is just feeling incredibly underwhelming right now as a stealth rocker with the prevalence of mons like pory, trapinch, mudbray, and even mienfoo. The only eh set so far is the rock polish meteor beam set but glimmet is not a particularly bulky mon with mid coverage so it doesn't even do much damage that often. It's not terrible, but it has fallen off a lot

A+ -> S
Stunky feels incredibly splashable on any team, almost even more than mienfoo or vullaby. Almost never have I had a team that got better by removing stunky. It clicks knock and does a lot of damage to top tier mons, whilst also not immediately losing to trapinch due to tera (I've been using dark) and the funniest ability ever, stench. It doesn't have a pivot move and can't heal by literally switching (unlike some weasel I could mention), but its 18 speed gives it a lot of bonus points.

B- -> A/A+
I'm going to go even farther than bella and say this mon is fantastic. Vital spirit allows it to be one of the best foongus counters in the game, knock off allows it to consistently make progress, and psychic is great for mienfoos foongus(es?) and gastlys. It can run tera psy to boost that psychic or tera ice (the set I'm using) tera blast over tbolt to also be able to hit grounds. LO is inferior to eviolite though, that bulk helps more than youd think.

+ D (and UR) -> B
I'm going to be a bit more weird here but these mons should totally be ranked. Being able to take advantage of the ever powerful scarf dog is incredible, and, with a well timed tera, they can easily clean up games with even one ddance. big damage go brr amirite

 

[vndrevc]

playing some tournaments and peaking the ladder made me notice some things that i want to share

UR -> C

this is one of the best hrowlithe answers atm, has a good stab combination and even thunder wave so it doesnt get too passive, it has one of the best abilities in the tier and make a good partner for mienfoo and foongus. it does good switching on numel, torchic and some other threats like mudbray and glimmet if you manage to get rocks off your field, it is a pretty good tera user as well so it can cover other attackers like stunky

A+ -> S

you can put this guy in every team and it is going to win a lot of games by its own. it has a pretty nice stab combination, 18 speed and it is the best revenge killer for the other 2 most viable offensive threats ( and ) it might need a suspect test in the future since its really hard to switch in this guy without something like rest mudbray or another niche things like overcoat defensive vullaby (if you manage to get rocks off); and unlike gastly, stunky can tank some hits while throwing powerful knock offs (stench is not healthy btw)

B- -> B+/A-

if you look at the viability rankings, there is no switch in for magnemite besides foongus (who gets its eviolite knock off pretty easily while switch into mienfoo), it has a decent bulk and a decent typing, that can switch in some moves (kinda predict reliant but it is not hard to put magnemite on the field) the reward of clicking moves with it is really high, and it can do a lot in some games by only clicking volt switch since a lot of teams rely on foongus to be its electric resistance. it is a pretty good tera blast user as well, but it really doesnt need to do it in 99% of the games since its analytic boosted flash cannons hit like a truck in everything trying to switch in

A -> B/B-

it just fell off, it got outclassed as a rock setter , got outclassed as a rock type , outclassed as a vullaby check, and besides being the only good spikes setter, there is no reason to run it over another more versatile mons. it is good, but there are better things to run. and being that good on the metagame really doesn't help glimmet as well and seems like it would need a big change on the meta game to be spammed like it was in dlc 1

 

[Éric]

gonna do some quick noms i think are worth talking about
s to a+: i think vullaby is not mandatory, not on mienfoos level of usefulness every game and is more on par with gastly and stunky. in fact, those are the mons you usually would want over vullaby, as the serve similar roles (ground immunity, speed control, breaking power, dark typing and knock off). i think vullabys weaknesses (rocks weakness, not perfect vs gastly, lack of immediate speed) hinder it and make it so there are quite a few teams that dont use it, and usually use stunky and/or gastly instead. thus, i think it should be with them
a- to a+: hot take probably, but this mon is super good now that snovy is out of the tier. many times you find yourself looking for speed control and a better matchup vs bray and vull. voltorb gives u all of that + is a god making progress, with its extremely fast volt switch, which is impossible to punish in this metagame. it is the only mon that naturally outspeeds the three of diglett, gastly and stunky. whats more, everyone and their mother knows and loves the life orb tera blast psychic lead set that ohkoes foo for a partner such as dog or sd pawn.
b- to a: it has gotten lots of usage lately, and for good reason. it is fast as shit and ohkoes mienfoo. its a normal type, so it dissuades gastly from clicking shadow ball, especially scarfed. also, it can be quite unpredictable, as it can run sets like scarf or covert cloak pretty easily. at the end of the day, all you need is brave bird, but it also gives you knock support and speed control. i think, in this case, that usage definitely should reflect viability.
c to b/b+: you all know why, but i will explain anyway. if you have watched at least one match from team brazil this lcwc, youll know about the double weather team. it has, surprisingly, farmed wins, and most of the reason is thanks to shrew. there used to be a time when teams prepared for that mon, but thats long gone now, and now shrew usually gets to hit the field and claim koes. i know i need to provide replays for c ranks, but im on phone on the bus, and they are in the lcwc threads anyway so ill edit if its really needed.
lower: when was the last time you saw one? mienfoo is too good. it still wins tho, but getting to do so in this metagame infested with poisons (gastly especially) and flyings is very tough
i would never use these, theyre too inconsistent or provide nothing new. some are as high as b which is wild to me. if u wanna know more ask me personally bc idt expaning here is that good an idea.
same tier: idk why they are separated. grookwy is absolutely unusable if you dont have it to boost shroodle and allow it to win, while shroodle is just as useless alone. no, solo grookey is not even b- material in the flying poison no waters metagame

 

[Hacker]

VR is updated now

Blame Greedy_eb and Colin for any bad placements!

s to a+: i think vullaby is not mandatory, not on mienfoos level of usefulness every game and is more on par with gastly and stunky. in fact, those are the mons you usually would want over vullaby, as the serve similar roles (ground immunity, speed control, breaking power, dark typing and knock off). i think vullabys weaknesses (rocks weakness, not perfect vs gastly, lack of immediate speed) hinder it and make it so there are quite a few teams that dont use it, and usually use stunky and/or gastly instead. thus, i think it should be with them

vullaby is still incredibly splashable on teams - while i agree that it isn't a mandatory teamslot i still think it provides a lot of value that its usually hard to justify not using it due to the incredible tools it still has even if you use are using other pokemon in a+

 

[Heatranator]

-> UR/B-
Been using this mon a lot, and I think its severly undderated. It's basically a mini gastly, it has the same speed tier as it and similar bulk (gastly's 30/30/35 compared to ghoul's 45/25/45, it's a tiny bit bulkier) and has nasty plot like gastly. I've been running an oran berry thief set and gimmighoul can usually take one hit while it sets up, steal an item and then ko 2-3 mons on the next turns. You could potentially run both gastly+ghoul on the same team, ghoul to punch holes in the opponents defenses and gastly to clean up, or you can use ghoul and have better reason to use other poison types such as foonguss since you won't be compromising on defensive utility as much by stacking two poison types (though stunky and gastly do pair well, but other poisons fall into the trap of sharing a psychic weakness).

 

[vndrevc]

A+ -> S

the metagame turns around gastly, every team runs 2~3 checks for its different sets like and for LO and scarf, for eviolite willo and as a secondary ghost resist. it restricts teambuilding and counterplay in a way that made stunky have 33% usage, made pawniard be used a lot than it should, and restricts a lot of another healthy pokemon, like (no reason to be running this), (unless you are using dark pulse it gives a free gastly switch-in oO) and (really tough to run double fight in this life orb tera stellar psychic meta)

A- -> A
really good role compression
- grounded poison
- checks
- pivots on
- pivots in scarf and hex
- wins 1v1 against non-taunt /forces it out with iron defense
it does a lot basically, and in almost all of the current teams it fits better than another defensive poison types like

 

[Colin]

just speaking for me and not the VR Council, but I have a few noms.

Stay A+:

Gastly is really good and boasts incredible offensive versatility, but its not quite on the level of Mienfoo, where every team needs it pretty much, and Vullaby, who can be dropped but should be fit on more than half of all teams. Gastly is just an elite and versatile threat, but it doesn't fill any critical defensive/pivot utility that is entirely unique to it, so it can be dropped and there are many offensive threats that can be used instead.

Rise to A+

Shellder is easily the most explosive sweeper in the tier, and supporting it is the reason that most hyper offense teams exist. its also good on bulky offense, and can customize its coverage and utility moves fairly easily. Jolly tera rock Shellder with Liquidation, Substitute, and Rock Blast is a very consistent set, and is resistant to almost all of the common priority and choice scarf users in the tier.

Drop to A-:

Pawniard is good, but it struggles with Mienfoo, Heat Wave Vullaby, Mudbray, and more, while not being consistent at answering Will-O-Wisp and Life Orb Gastly sets. its also not explosive offensively at all, outside of its SD sets which aren't difficult to manage, so it can't wallbreak outside of setting rocks either. Most things that have sets walled by Pawniard also have sets that nuke it with coverage.

Drop to A-:

I'm not as certain on this one as I am with Pawniard, but once it uses Spore it becomes a liability. Its also very vulnerable to being teched with taunt, substitute, and Overcoat Vullaby, so it might not even get its Spore pff. it also has a lot of trouble walling if Stealth Rocks go up or it gets knocked. Spore is amazing, but Foongus isn't consistent at using it, and the reward isn't as high as it looks when you are immediately forced to switch afterwards vs most teams to not give momentum.

Rise to B+

The move set of Volt Switch, Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, and Thunder Wave with some defense investment to survive 2 Vullaby Knock Offs allows it to function as a solid pivot that is annoying to switch into, and can shore up a team vs Vullaby. Fire resists are critical vs Growlithe-Hisui, which is the main reason why I sometimes use it over Voltorb-Hisui. It is a bit prediction reliant at times and needs powerful breakers that it can support, which is why it isn't better.

Rise to B+

Gothita is a specialist built to trap Foongus and Mareanie in particular, but even if it doesn't pull those matchups it can still be used to force Mienfoo to tera or to kill Glimmet, Snubbul, and more with pivot support. It is great at supporting teams with many pivots, especially Voltorb-Hisui, and it has solid synergy with Toxic Spikes unless the opponent brings Stunky. Not much got changed or invented with it, but I consider it more valuable than its B tier companions.

the A rank should be nuked, because the gap between the A+ rank and everything else, except Shellder, is huge. Nothing except for maybe Foongus can fit in that midground imo.