Resource SV BSS Regulation A Viability Rankings

[Psynergy]

Welcome to the SV Battle Stadium Singles Viability Rankings for the Series 1 Ruleset. This will likely be the first of many similar threads this generation, but as always the goal is torank Pokemon based on their effectiveness in the Battle Stadium Singles metagame. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes, but ultimately the final decision will fall on the VR Council. This is not meant to be an objective list and there may or may not be placements you disagree with, but that's all the more reason to discuss your opinions here!

The Viability Rankings will be updated appropriately as the metagame progresses or when new Pokemon become available, and we will take posts in this thread into consideration. There is no concrete schedule to when these updates will happen, but the VR Council has the final say on what gets moved in the ranking list. These users are all well informed players that gather the community's input to make final decisions on any individual Pokemon. This is a fairly large group that will cycle in and out of activity, but at the moment the rankings have been discussed by the following users:

• Butch Hardnight
• DerpySuX
• greilmercenary9
• Kiby
• luisin
• Pearl
• Psynergy
• StarkGod
• Theorymon
• Thick Fat Azumarill

Battle Stadium Singles Rankings
(In alphabetical order)

S Tier:

S rank
Dragapult
Dragonite

Dragonite Analysis

[OVERVIEW]

Welcome to the next generation of Battle Stadium Singles! In this new and exciting metagame, new ideas are constantly developing, so this analysis will constantly be updated to reflect metagame trends.

If you feel this analysis is not up to date, [feel free to check out the thread for this Pokemon and post suggestions](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dragonite.3712161/). For more resources on Series 1 in general, [check out this thread](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-stadium-singles-series-1-a-land-free-of-ruins-and-paradoxes.3711710/).

[SET]
name: Extreme Killernite
move 1: Extreme Speed
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Earthquake / Low Kick / Fire Punch
move 4: Dragon Claw / Outrage / Fire Punch / Roost
item: Lum Berry / Silk Scarf
ability: Multiscale
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
tera type: Normal

[SET COMMENTS]

* With Tera Normal, Dragonite can do its best impression of Arceus, with a powerful Extreme Speed that makes Dragonite a great revenge killer and sweeper in one!

* Earthquake is Dragonite's strongest tool against most Steel-types, but Fire Punch is worth considering to hit Corviknight.

* Low Kick is a far more reliable move against Kingambit, and can help in Tera Normal Dragonite mirrors.

* While a Dragon-type STAB move is useful against opposing Dragons and is Dragonite's best shot at picking off weakened Dondozo, it's not strictly needed on this Dragonite.

* A Jolly nature allows Dragonite to outspeed Dragapult after one use of Dragon Dance, but Adamant is a reasonable consideration if revenge killing with Extreme Speed is more important.

Items
========

* **Lum Berry**: Lum Berry gives Dragonite more set up opportunities against status moves and pairs particularly well with Outrage to cure confusion.

* **Silk Scarf**: This item goes all in on Extreme Speed's revenge killing power, without conflicting with Multiscale.

* **Life Orb**: Life Orb doesn't pair well with Multiscale on paper, but the power boost it gives Extreme Speed can let Dragonite clean teams up earlier.

[SET]
name: Encore
move 1: Roost
move 2: Encore
move 3: Fire Spin / Draco Meteor
move 4: Thunder Wave / Substitute / Draco Meteor
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots
ability: Multiscale
nature: Timid / Bold
tera type: Fairy
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Due to Dragonite's offensive presence and high bulk, many opponents choose to either check it defensively or set up against it to break through Roost + Multiscale. Against either option, Encore can turn Dragonite practically invincible allowing it to reside on the field indefinitely in most cases.

* Fire Spin allows Dragonite to defeat almost any Pokemon universally by simply making full use of its longevity. Trapping an Encore locked Pokemon in the field is also highly valuable. Fire Spin is used instead of Wrap because it affects Ghost-types and doesn't trigger chip damage from Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet.

* Encore is most effective against slower foes. Thunder Wave allows Dragonite to lock a much wider variety of Pokemon into their moves, while also giving it more opportunities to keep Multiscale up via potential paralysis.

* Substitute adds to Dragonite's longevity. Baiting a status move such as Toxic or Yawn, blocking it with Substitute, and locking the move in with Encore guarantees Dragonite an active Substitute while defeating the opposing Pokemon. Most notably, managing to leave a Substitute against Garganacl's Salt Cure or Corviknight's U-turn gains a lot of momentum.

* Draco Meteor is a powerful move that can catch opposing Dragon-types off- guard and snatch a surprise KO. This Dragonite set has more than enough capability to run the timer out, so guaranteeing the number advantage is significant. It is also a significantly better offensive option against opposing Dragonite, which can avoid Encore via the use of Extreme Speed, raise its own Speed with Dragon Dance, and ignore Thunder Wave with the common Lum Berry.

Tera Types
========

* **Fairy**: Due to Dragonite’'s low Speed compared to other Dragon-types, it has a difficult time without a Fairy Tera type.

EV Spreads
========

* **252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: In order to make the most use of Encore, max Speed is recommended.

* **252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe with Bold**: A more defensive spread lets Dragonite preserve Terastallization against certain physical attackers, which makes it a noteworthy choice. In particular, max Defense Dragonite can use Roost to mitigate the damage from Choice Band Meowscarada without needing to Terastallize, and Substitute can survive Garganacl's Salt Cure.

Items
========

* **Leftovers** Generally, Leftovers preserves Dragonite’'s longevity best, as it cancels out the damage from Sandstorm and makes timer stall easier. However, the increased usage of entry hazard setter Garchomp makes Heavy-Duty Boots a strong option.

* **Rocky Helmet**: Rocky Helmet makes it easier for Dragonite to defeat Pokemon such as opposing Dragonite, Kingambit, and Meowscarada, and its residual damage can be used to execute a win condition, especially for sets that choose not to run Fire Spin.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Extreme Speed
move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Earthquake / Low Kick
item: Choice Band
ability: Multiscale
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
tera type: Normal

[SET COMMENTS]

* Choice Band makes Dragonite both an effective late-game cleaner with Tera Normal Extreme Speed and effective at breaking through many defensive Pokemon.

* Outrage is strong enough to potentially 2HKO Impish Dondozo after Stealth Rock damage, though it leaves Dragonite very vulnerable to getting revenge killed.

[SET]
name: Defensive Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Encore
move 4: Tera Blast / Iron Head
item: Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Impish / Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 Spe
tera type: Flying / Steel

[SET COMMENTS]

* Dragonite's good bulk gives it plenty of chances to set up Dragon Dance, while still providing a solid defensive backbone.

* Encore makes setting up on slower defensive foes such as Corviknight fairly easy.

Tera Types
========

* **Flying**: With Tera Blast, Tera Flying gives Dragonite a solid mono-attacking option and defensive typing in one, at the cost of always needing to Terastallize.

* **Steel**: Tera Steel covers Dragonite's former weaknesses very well, and can still work somewhat well even if not Terastallized thanks to Iron Head.

Items
========

* **Rocky Helmet**: Rocky Helmet lets Dragonite play more passively thanks to the chip damage.

* **Heavy-Duty Boots**: Preserving Multiscale even when Stealth Rock is set up can help Dragonite survive attacks in emergencies.

* **Leftovers**: Leftovers's passive healing gives Dragonite a better matchup against passive foes it can Encore.

EV Spreads
========

* **252 HP / 100 Def / 156 Spe with Impish**: This EV Spread allows Dragonite to outspeed Jolly Kingambit before boosting, and up to Timid Gengar after Dragon Dance, avoiding a potentially faster Encore.

* **252 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Jolly**: Maximizing Speed outspeeds Jolly Dragapult after a Dragon Dance, and at least speed ties with offensive Dragonite.

[SET]
name: Offensive Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Earthquake / Low Kick
item: Lum Berry / Heavy-Duty Boots
ability: Multiscale
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
tera type: Steel / Fire

[SET COMMENTS]

* Dragonite uses both Multiscale and the unpredictability of Terastallization to become an extremely dangerous sweeper!

* Earthquake is a consistent option against most Steel-types, but Low Kick does better against Kingambit.

Tera Types
========

* **Steel**: Dragonite has superb synergy with Tera Steel, resisting most of its weaknesses, and particularly helping against Fairy-types and opposing Dragon-types. When paired with Safety Goggles, this Dragonite can take advantage of Amoonguss effectively as well.

* **Fire**: With Tera Fire, Dragonite deals massive damage to Corviknight with +1 Fire Punch, in addition to gaining a useful Fairy-type resistance.

Items
========

* **Lum Berry**: With a Lum Berry, Dragonite can set up against status moves and use Outrage with less risk late game.

* **Heavy-Duty Boots**: Avoiding damage from hazards lets Dragonite always set up with Multiscale in tow.

* **Life Orb**: Life Orb doesn't fit well with Multiscale, but it's notable for allowing Tera Fire Dragonite a 75% chance to OHKO Corviknight after Dragon Dance.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Theorymon, 29010], [Tachipoyo, 613881]]
- Quality checked by: [[StarkGod, 62165], [Butch Hardnight, 265677], [Thick Fat Azumarill, 330577]]
- Grammar checked by: [[UT, 523866], [Isaiah, 375662]]

Garchomp

S- rank
Gholdengo


A Tier:

A+ rank
Annihilape
Baxcalibur
Dondozo
Hydreigon
Kingambit
Meowscarada
Skeledirge
Volcarona

A rank
Breloom
Corviknight
Garganacl
Gengar
Hippowdon
Magnezone
Mimikyu
Rotom-Heat
Rotom-Wash


B tier:

B+ rank
Azumarill
Blissey
Clodsire
Espathra
Glimmora
Grimmsnarl
Palafin
Pawmot
Salamence
Sylveon
Tauros-Fire
Tinkaton
Umbreon

B rank
Amoonguss
Arcanine
Avalugg
Bellibolt
Chansey
Ceruledge
Cloyster
Donphan
Gastrodon
Gyarados
Orthworm
Quaquaval
Scizor

Scizor analysis

[OVERVIEW]

Welcome to the next generation of Battle Stadium Singles! In this new and exciting metagame, new ideas are constantly developing, so this analysis will constantly be updated to reflect metagame trends.

If you feel this analysis is not up to date, [feel free to check out the thread for this Pokemon and post suggestions](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scizor.3713209/). For more resources on Series 1 in general, [check out this thread](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-stadium-singles-series-1-a-land-free-of-ruins-and-paradoxes.3711710/).

[SET]
name: Pivot
move 1: Bullet Punch
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Thief / Aerial Ace
item: Choice Band / Assault Vest
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
tera type: Steel

[SET COMMENTS]

* Thanks to its high Attack, great defensive typing and solid bulk, Scizor is an effective bulky pivot that can also punish faster foes with Technician-boosted Bullet Punch.

* Close Combat is Scizor’s best option to hit opposing Steel types, while Thief is the strongest option against Gholdengo due to the Technician boost.

* Aerial Ace is an option over Thief to hit Fighting types like Annihilape and Breloom, but leaves you vulnerable to Gholdengo.

Items
========

* **Choice Band**: Choice Band lets Scizor function as a scary late-game cleaner, especially with Tera Steel-boosted Bullet Punch. The high damage output also helps Scizor to break down walls for its teammates.

* **Assault Vest**: While much less immediately threatening than Choice Band, Assault Vest lets Scizor more comfortably switch in to stray special attacks like Gholdengo’s Shadow Ball or Rotom-Wash’s Volt Switch, improving its longevity.


Tera Types
========

* **Steel**: Choice Band Scizor is a fairly good user of Terastallization, as with Tera Steel boosts Bullet Punch to terrifying levels. Tera Steel also softens Scizor’s weakness to Fire, letting it avoid the OHKO from attacks like Dragonite’s Fire Punch even after a boost.

* **Water**: While Steel is Scizor’s best Tera type in most circumstances, Water turns its Fire weakness into a resistance, allowing Scizor to surprise Pokemon like Skeledirge and Volcarona.

* **Fire**: A Fire Tera type functions similarly to Water, but it trades more weaknesses in general for an immunity to burn.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Jediment, 15093]]
- Quality checked by: [[DerpySuX, 528485]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Isaiah, 375662]]

Toxapex

C tier:

C+ rank
Abomasnow
Arboliva
Armarouge
Floatzel
Haxorus
Lokix
Pelipper
Scovillain

C rank
Cyclizar
Flamigo
Gallade
Gardevoir
Gothitelle
Houndstone
Kilowattrel
Krookodile
Mudsdale
Staraptor
Torkoal
Tyranitar


Rules

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think Pokemon X should be in this tier" without giving any reasoning is not helpful.
• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but avoid basing your entire argument around them.
• No flaming, if you disagree with someone please be civil about it.
• No one-liners or useless comments.

 

[Psynergy]

First things first, you probably notice that the tiers are very general to begin with. More defined tiers will be made later hopefully once we have more usage stats and team finishes to analyze at the end of the first season, but for now the list is fairly generalized between the "Meta Relevant" top tier, "Notable Picks" middle tier, and "Niche Usage" for, well, the Pokemon with some level of a niche.

Don't take the current rankings too seriously but this should give a generalized idea of the metagame at the moment. If you have any major objections, then by all means, please share those thoughts! Any constructive comments or discussions are highly encouraged, if you have more specific personal rankings to share that's even better!

For the time being we will likely stick with this VR thread until we know what exactly is happening with future rulesets. If they drip-feed new additions to the metagame then we will likely stick with this thread for awhile, but if they drop more drastic metagame changes then chances are we will move to new thread so that we can archive the current metagame.

With that said, the floor is open for discussion!

 

[DerpySuX]

I vote we nuke kingambit

looks good to me!

 

[11oyd]

I think that Palafin should already be a meta-relevant threat. I've seen it on many top 2k teams on cart. It's probably more common than hippo and breloom combined tbh. Tera water boosted wave crash and jet punch do insane damage. If you can get rocks and rain up for it, then it just slaps.

In rain with a band you can ohko a Hydreigon: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon in Rain: 413-486 (127 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I also think that Espathra is slept on. Lumina crash alone can be impossible to switch into. Shredding opponent stats instead of boosting is a solid idea in this Unaware meta. Not to mention it's the premiere baton passer and a great tera fighting/ fairy sweeper. Keep an eye on this menace of a birb.

 

[DerpySuX]

I think that Palafin should already be a meta-relevant threat. I've seen it on many top 2k teams on cart. It's probably more common than hippo and breloom combined tbh. Tera water boosted wave crash and jet punch do insane damage. If you can get rocks and rain up for it, then it just slaps.

In rain with a band you can ohko a Hydreigon: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon in Rain: 413-486 (127 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I also think that Espathra is slept on. Lumina crash alone can be impossible to switch into. Shredding opponent stats instead of boosting is a solid idea in this Unaware meta. Not to mention it's the premiere baton passer and a great tera fighting/ fairy sweeper. Keep an eye on this menace of a birb.

Imo the main issue with palafin is that it absolutely has to switch out before it’s useful most of the time. The only use I’ve gotten out of it personally is cheesing stuff with sash counter, otherwise having to switch out to activate hero mode is just, too cumbersome for me to genuinely call it anything higher than what it is.

 

[Omastar68]

You'd think I could think of lots of stuff with about 400 games. Not really, but I suppose I'll try suggesting a Mon to niche.

This one has seen me through a lot(still doing bad but this isn't why, hard to say why,) and while I'm glad Gengar is on here, imo she still has some niche over Gengar, the Mon is Mismagius. With my EVs I always take timid unboosted Shadow Ball from Gholdengo, and Dark Pulse from Hydreigon.

I'm running moves that Gengar gets as well, which cuts into the niche. However, it's possible to run moves Gengar doesn't get like Power Gem, Grass Knot, or Mystical Fire. She's also a less obvious/completely surprising user of trick. I've had rotoms trick me only to get back another scarf. Idk that people would be so quick to trick Gengar.

Compared to Gengar, you get 5 less Spe and 25 less SpA, for 30 SpD. Not always a great trade, that's why I'm saying niche. But the extra speed isn't that major imo. Mostly you can outspeed Hydreigon scarfed(Mismagius lives, though there is the flinch chance,) Scarf Chomp, and +1 Volcarona(which Gengar won't do much to since it lacks Power Gem.) Less SpA is bad, but If you can take a hit better you can attack more, even switching in on a weakened non lo or specs Gholdengo.

Tl;dr, if Gengar is relatively good then imo Mismagius is relatively niche.

 

[Theorymon]

I'm willing to actually try Mismagious later just because Levitate is so cool for tera mons, but imo the big issue Mismagious has over Gengar is the lack of Encore. Encore is part of why Gengar started becoming relevant again, so Mismagious is just going to have less utility. And compared to other Levitate mons, I do think it competes with Rotom-W, Rotom-H, and Hydreigon a LOT for slots.

 

[Omastar68]

Well ok, thanks for saying you'll try though! I can see no encore being bad, though not for scarf. The other levitates are often scarf though, and I see the competition. Although ghost synergizes with Hydreigon. Once thos gets more fleshed out than great, good, ok, Mismagius could have a D to C ranking, perhaps.

Also, while I'm NOT nominating it at all, I'm wondering what flying Rotom lacks that Kilowattrel has. I know the latter is awful frail.

I agree with avalugg being on here, however I have not seen one in over 400 games.

 

[Malicious Muffin]

I didn't see it on here, but assault vest Goodra is a good pick in high masterball and it's usually paired with a physical wall. Not many things can switch into the acid spray pressure + draco meteor follow up. I would personally consider Palafin a meta relevant threat too because we have so many potent walls that can be switched into that make him work (ex. corviknight, clodsire, dondozo) and you're probably not walling him off unless you are immune or resisting the wave crash.

Other niche picks that get seen quite a bit are driftblim (unburden, minimize, baton pass) and it tends to get paired with a terrain setter to consume the seed with espathra/corvi/krookodile usually being the receipient in the end of the chain. It's very annoying, but spammed enough in ranked for me to have it on my list. Indeedee is a great pokemon usually paired with armarouge/cloyster/polteageist to seal off priority and sweep.

I pretty much just play ranked singles on my game with around 1000+ games and I hope my input is useful. You get to see all sorts of crazy and interesting builds.

 

[Omastar68]

I would've nommed Drifblim, but in the past that did not go well lol. Times have changed but I didn't wanna bring it up. Seconded though, and I agree Goodra can be strong. Palafin going up seems fine, it's decently common and you need something for it. Idk though, probably the thing I support least, though I still agree.

Once this gets more fleshed out, I especially think 'Notable Picks' should be split up. There's a huge difference in usage of, say, Ceruledge compared to Gothitelle.

 

[Aqua Jet]

Rapid-fire takes:

• I think that Toxtricity and Slowking should be ranked in the niche catagory.
  • Toxtricity is kinda cool because Shift Gear / Drain Punch / Overdrive / Boomburst takes care of a good chunk of the meta once it has terastallized into a Normal-type.
  • Slowking is sort of a catch-all defensive pivot, and can run a few different sets ranging from standard Chilly Reception to more unique sets like RegenVest, which any AAA player will tell you is an extremely potent combination.
• Please unrank Orthworm, I've seen several of them and literally all of them have done nothing and died, plus it faces huge competition from Cyclizar which just does the job of passing substitutes better.
• I haven't seen much of Flamigo, I guess it could be fine? I have my doubts though.
• Haven't seen much Houndstone either and the one I did see did nothing and died, but the pilot was generally playing badly so I don't really think its fair to use that experience.

Rest I agree with or have no opinion on, thank you VR council members for constructing a VR so quickly!

 

[DerpySuX]

I heavily disagree with unranking Orthworm. It can do more than shed tail and people are so infatuated with that move that they overlook just how amazing Earth Eater is just as a defensive ability. Orthworm completely sits on Garchomp if it isn’t running Fire coverage, it can easily get rocks, and since shed tail is what everyone immediately thinks of, the slow shed tail guarantees that whoever it passes to gets at least one turn behind a sub, which is well worth the risk of moving after the opponent. Is it as consistent at sub passing as cyclizar? No, but it doesn’t have to be, it makes up for that by being a genuinely useful defensive backbone, and that’s worth the niche ranking.

 

[Omastar68]

I heavily disagree with unranking Orthworm. It can do more than shed tail and people are so infatuated with that move that they overlook just how amazing Earth Eater is just as a defensive ability. Orthworm completely sits on Garchomp if it isn’t running Fire coverage, it can easily get rocks, and since shed tail is what everyone immediately thinks of, the slow shed tail guarantees that whoever it passes to gets at least one turn behind a sub, which is well worth the risk of moving after the opponent. Is it as consistent at sub passing as cyclizar? No, but it doesn’t have to be, it makes up for that by being a genuinely useful defensive backbone, and that’s worth the niche ranking.

Thanks! Im ambivalent about the rest of this person's ideas, but I adore Orthworm, so cool someone came to the rescue before me.

Orthworm is among my best regularly. There is so much utility in ID+Body Press, not just for Earth Eater targets like Chomp, DNite, etc., but for things like Meowscarada and Kingambit. Special stuff HURTS, but you can Metal Burst things you live. Glimmora and Abomasnow both rely on ground to hurt steels, that fails here. I actually find setting rocks to be a challenge, and it leaves me reliant on Metal Burst to hit ghosts w/ my set. So that might go in my case, but it's still a great option! I've never actually tried the Shed Tail set, so assuming that's at all good, that's just double the reason to keep Orthworm. So far I'm routinely about 10 losses ahead, w/ over 400 games. As that's sub-par I won't be suggesting Orthworm go up, but nothing makes me think it should go down in a very physical meta(I heard it was on here somewhere, idk.) Biggest issue to me is surprise special/mixed. So Pult and Mence are kings of that.

I probably shouldn't, but seeing Flamigo(I do like this don't get me wrong, one of my few lvl 100s for raids,) and Avalugg makes me think the similarly niche Florges has a place here. Grass tera w/ Flower Veil wrecks things like Umbreon which can be a pain. She has good SpA w/ amazing special bulk. Then there's the buff to Giga Drain since she inevitably must tera grass if that's available, useful, and not a disaster defensively. Chilling Water is decent for shoring up the phys. defense imo. The phys def is still yucky though, so I'd actually oppose higher than niche for now. But w/ tera she's a yawn immunity if you tera before getting hit by it. That said she has no way to hit Skeledirge or Gholdengo, despite the being special.

 

[Aqua Jet]

Thanks for responding so soon, I always enjoy seeing an experienced players opinion on my takes!

Orthworm completely sits on Garchomp if it isn’t running Fire coverage

While true, most Garchomp I've seen are running Fire coverage, and the ones that aren't are either Stealth Rock Garchomp (which runs Dragon Tail and as a result can phaze both Orthworm after Iron Defence, as well as phaze the substitute that Orthworm creates using Shed Tail) or Choice item Garchomp (which can, if it wants, terastallize into a Fire-type and power through Orthworm).

I won't say its bad, because it isn't. I think it has a genuine niche in the format. That said, I think that this niche is too small and wouldn't really ever consider recommending Orthworm to a newer player.

 

[DerpySuX]

I won't say its bad, because it isn't. I think it has a genuine niche in the format. That said, I think that this niche is too small and wouldn't really ever consider recommending Orthworm to a newer player.

This is completely fair, and I do agree that generally Orthworm is not beginner friendly, but that’s true of a lot of mons, even some higher up on the list. Hell I would argue that in the current meta, it’s unwise to recommend something like Gengar to a newer player. My personal philosophy on viability isn’t so much tied to how easy a mon is to use, (though if it is easier to use that does make it more considerable for a higher placement to a degree) but rather on how much it can impact a game when utilized properly. Going by this logic, Orthworm has the ability heavily impact a lot of games it might appear in should its trainer use it correctly. This is why I believe it should be ranked, despite not being as user friendly as most other options on the list.

Hopefully this clears up my mindset a bit more :)

 

[Omastar68]

That's so well put, defense all on one side DOES make it harder to use. But it's also a bigger deal when their special is down/Metal Burst fodder.

 

[DerpySuX]

Oh and on the note about Garchomp, while it is true that the vast majority of offensive builds run fire fang, not all of them do. Additionally, the Hazard setter has exploded in popularity in recent time, and has actually eclipsed the swords dancer (at least from my experience), and Orthworm completely sits on this set, even nullifying Dragon Tail if it so chooses by Terastallizing fairy.

 

[Omastar68]

Will there be a new thread for if paradox becomes legal? I do bad, but I have a better handle on the legal mons, idk how to use some paradox and the legends, kinda.

 

[DerpySuX]

Yeah we’ll have an updated VR when the rest of padea is freed

 

[Omastar68]

What use is grafaiai? The only time I've seen it, in over 400 games, is when I ran it lol. So it doesnt seem to have a niche over Grimm

 

[DerpySuX]

What use is grafaiai? The only time I've seen it, in over 400 games, is when I ran it lol. So it doesnt seem to have a niche over Grimm

 

[Omastar68]

Ty. I might suggest other stuff to go on here, but now I have no questions about stuff already here.

EDIT: Nvm on Florges. I have to ditch her cause 0 phys bulk(my team is more physically bulky, but even so.) It wouldn't make sense to remove her but stand by nomination.

 

[Jediment]

I'd like to suggest Hatterene and potentially Espeon for the Nice Usage category, helmet Garchomp is easily a top 10 mon in the metagame right now and having Magic Bounce is huge if your team relies on mons that don't like SR, such as Dragonite, Volc, sash Breloom etc. Hatterene is the better of the two imo since she's tanky enough to take hits from Garchomp but Espeon is more offensively threatening.

 

[Theorymon]

I'd like to suggest Hatterene and potentially Espeon for the Nice Usage category, helmet Garchomp is easily a top 10 mon in the metagame right now and having Magic Bounce is huge if your team relies on mons that don't like SR, such as Dragonite, Volc, sash Breloom etc. Hatterene is the better of the two imo since she's tanky enough to take hits from Garchomp but Espeon is more offensively threatening.

I actually gotta agree with this, hazards chomp has been going sicko mode, so I can see the wisdom in using one of those two for a few teams.

 

[Omastar68]

I didn't realize, but everybody forgot maushold. I think it deserves a place. Nvm the stats, population bomb is a horror.