Other SV 1v1 Discussion and Speculation [SPOILERS]

[clerica]

With a ton of new information about SV coming out and their release being this week, people have been very excited about the upcoming games. We wanted to offer a place for people to begin discussing their thoughts on all the new mons, moves, changes, and more similar to what we did with DLC 2 during SS. It should go without saying but keep in mind that while we have a lot of new information there is still missing information and our current information may not be perfect so this is just a thread for speculation and ideas and not anything definitive.

Some Resources (mostly from the OU thread):

Pokemon stats, moves, and abilities

https://pastebin.com/VbP2Md04 part 1
https://pastebin.com/pghsfRYm part 2
IF THESE LINKS ARE BROKEN LMK SO I CAN FIX

New mons stats and abilities

Wyrdeer-0 - 103/105/72/105/75/65 (Total: 525) - Normal/Psychic - Intimidate/Frisk/Sap Sipper
Kleavor-0 - 70/130/95/45/75/85 (Total: 500) - Bug/Rock - Swarm/Sheer Force/Sharpness
Ursaluna-0 - 130/140/105/45/80/50 (Total: 550) - Ground/Normal - Guts/Bulletproof/Unnerve
Basculegion-0 - 120/112/65/80/75/78 (Total: 530) - Water/Ghost - Swift Swim/Adaptability/Mold Breaker
Basculegion-1 - 120/92/65/100/75/78 (Total: 530) - Water/Ghost - Swift Swim/Adaptability/Mold Breaker
Sneasler-0 - 80/130/60/40/80/120 (Total: 510) - Fighting/Poison - Pressure/Unburden/Poison Touch
Overqwil-0 - 85/115/95/65/65/85 (Total: 510) - Dark/Poison - Poison Point/Swift Swim/Intimidate
Enamorus-0 - 74/115/70/135/80/106 (Total: 580) - Fairy/Flying - Cute Charm/Cute Charm/Contrary
Enamorus-1 - 74/115/110/135/100/46 (Total: 580) - Fairy/Flying - Overcoat/Overcoat/Overcoat
Sprigatito-0 - 40/61/54/45/45/65 (Total: 310) - Grass/Grass - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Floragato-0 - 61/80/63/60/63/83 (Total: 410) - Grass/Grass - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Meowscarada-0 - 76/110/70/81/70/123 (Total: 530) - Grass/Dark - Overgrow/Overgrow/Protean
Fuecoco-0 - 67/45/59/63/40/36 (Total: 310) - Fire/Fire - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Crocalor-0 - 81/55/78/90/58/49 (Total: 411) - Fire/Fire - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Skeledirge-0 - 104/75/100/110/75/66 (Total: 530) - Fire/Ghost - Blaze/Blaze/Unaware
Quaxly-0 - 55/65/45/50/45/50 (Total: 310) - Water/Water - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Quaxwell-0 - 70/85/65/65/60/65 (Total: 410) - Water/Water - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Quaquaval-0 - 85/120/80/85/75/85 (Total: 530) - Water/Fighting - Torrent/Torrent/Moxie
Lechonk-0 - 54/45/40/35/45/35 (Total: 254) - Normal/Normal - Aroma Veil/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Oinkologne-0 - 110/100/75/59/80/65 (Total: 489) - Normal/Normal - Lingering Aroma/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Oinkologne-1 - 115/90/70/59/90/65 (Total: 489) - Normal/Normal - Aroma Veil/Gluttony/Thick Fat
Dudunsparce-0 - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) - Normal/Normal - Serene Grace/Run Away/Rattled
Dudunsparce-1 - 125/100/80/85/75/55 (Total: 520) - Normal/Normal - Serene Grace/Run Away/Rattled
Tarountula-0 - 35/41/45/29/40/20 (Total: 210) - Bug/Bug - Insomnia/Insomnia/Stakeout
Spidops-0 - 60/79/92/52/86/35 (Total: 404) - Bug/Bug - Insomnia/Insomnia/Stakeout
Nymble-0 - 33/46/40/21/25/45 (Total: 210) - Bug/Bug - Swarm/Swarm/Tinted Lens
Lokix-0 - 71/102/78/52/55/92 (Total: 450) - Bug/Dark - Swarm/Swarm/Tinted Lens
Rellor-0 - 41/50/60/31/58/30 (Total: 270) - Bug/Bug - Compound Eyes/Compound Eyes/Shed Skin
Rabsca-0 - 75/50/85/115/100/45 (Total: 470) - Bug/Psychic - Synchronize/Synchronize/Telepathy
Greavard-0 - 50/61/60/30/55/34 (Total: 290) - Ghost/Ghost - Pickup/Pickup/Fluffy
Houndstone-0 - 72/101/100/50/97/68 (Total: 488) - Ghost/Ghost - Sand Rush/Sand Rush/Fluffy
Flittle-0 - 30/35/30/55/30/75 (Total: 255) - Psychic/Psychic - Anticipation/Frisk/Speed Boost
Espathra-0 - 95/60/60/101/60/105 (Total: 481) - Psychic/Psychic - Opportunist/Frisk/Speed Boost
Farigiraf-0 - 120/90/70/110/70/60 (Total: 520) - Normal/Psychic - Cud Chew/Armor Tail/Sap Sipper
Wiglett-0 - 10/55/25/35/25/95 (Total: 245) - Water/Water - Gooey/Rattled/Sand Veil
Wugtrio-0 - 35/100/50/50/70/120 (Total: 425) - Water/Water - Gooey/Rattled/Sand Veil
Dondozo-0 - 150/100/115/65/65/35 (Total: 530) - Water/Water - Unaware/Oblivious/Water Veil
Veluza-0 - 90/102/73/78/65/70 (Total: 478) - Water/Psychic - Mold Breaker/Mold Breaker/Sharpness
Finizen-0 - 70/45/40/45/40/75 (Total: 315) - Water/Water - Water Veil/Water Veil/Water Veil
Palafin-0 - 100/70/72/53/62/100 (Total: 457) - Water/Water - Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero
Palafin-1 - 100/160/97/106/87/100 (Total: 650) - Water/Water - Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero/Zero to Hero
Smoliv-0 - 41/35/45/58/51/30 (Total: 260) - Grass/Normal - Early Bird/Early Bird/Harvest
Dolliv-0 - 52/53/60/78/78/33 (Total: 354) - Grass/Normal - Early Bird/Early Bird/Harvest
Arboliva-0 - 78/69/90/125/109/39 (Total: 510) - Grass/Normal - Seed Sower/Seed Sower/Harvest
Capsakid-0 - 50/62/40/62/40/50 (Total: 304) - Grass/Grass - Chlorophyll/Insomnia/Klutz
Scovillain-0 - 65/108/65/108/65/75 (Total: 486) - Grass/Fire - Chlorophyll/Insomnia/Moody
Tadbulb-0 - 61/31/41/59/35/45 (Total: 272) - Electric/Electric - Own Tempo/Static/Damp
Bellibolt-0 - 109/64/91/103/83/45 (Total: 495) - Electric/Electric - Electromorphosis/Static/Damp
Varoom-0 - 45/70/63/30/45/47 (Total: 300) - Steel/Poison - Overcoat/Overcoat/Slow Start
Revavroom-0 - 80/119/90/54/67/90 (Total: 500) - Steel/Poison - Overcoat/Overcoat/Filter
Orthworm-0 - 70/85/145/60/55/65 (Total: 480) - Steel/Steel - Earth Eater/Earth Eater/Sand Veil
Tandemaus-0 - 50/50/45/40/45/75 (Total: 305) - Normal/Normal - Run Away/Pickup/Own Tempo
Maushold-0 - 74/75/70/65/75/111 (Total: 470) - Normal/Normal - Friend Guard/Cheek Pouch/Technician
Maushold-1 - 74/75/70/65/75/111 (Total: 470) - Normal/Normal - Friend Guard/Cheek Pouch/Technician
Cetoddle-0 - 108/68/45/30/40/43 (Total: 334) - Ice/Ice - Thick Fat/Snow Cloak/Sheer Force
Cetitan-0 - 170/113/65/45/55/73 (Total: 521) - Ice/Ice - Thick Fat/Slush Rush/Sheer Force
Frigibax-0 - 65/75/45/35/45/55 (Total: 320) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Arctibax-0 - 90/95/66/45/65/62 (Total: 423) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Baxcalibur-0 - 115/145/92/75/86/87 (Total: 600) - Dragon/Ice - Thermal Exchange/Thermal Exchange/Ice Body
Tatsugiri-0 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Tatsugiri-1 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Tatsugiri-2 - 68/50/60/120/95/82 (Total: 475) - Dragon/Water - Commander/Commander/Storm Drain
Cyclizar-0 - 70/95/65/85/65/121 (Total: 501) - Dragon/Normal - Shed Skin/Shed Skin/Regenerator
Pawmi-0 - 45/50/20/40/25/60 (Total: 240) - Electric/Electric - Static/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Pawmo-0 - 60/75/40/50/40/85 (Total: 350) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Pawmot-0 - 70/115/70/70/60/105 (Total: 490) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Wattrel-0 - 40/40/35/55/40/70 (Total: 280) - Electric/Flying - Wind Power/Volt Absorb/Competitive
Kilowattrel-0 - 70/70/60/105/60/125 (Total: 490) - Electric/Flying - Wind Power/Volt Absorb/Competitive
Bombirdier-0 - 70/103/85/60/85/82 (Total: 485) - Flying/Dark - Big Pecks/Keen Eye/Rocky Payload
Squawkabilly-0 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Guts
Squawkabilly-1 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Guts
Squawkabilly-2 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Sheer Force
Squawkabilly-3 - 82/96/51/45/51/92 (Total: 417) - Normal/Flying - Intimidate/Hustle/Sheer Force
Flamigo-0 - 82/115/74/75/64/90 (Total: 500) - Flying/Fighting - Scrappy/Tangled Feet/Costar
Klawf-0 - 70/100/115/35/55/75 (Total: 450) - Rock/Rock - Anger Shell/Shell Armor/Regenerator
Nacli-0 - 55/55/75/35/35/25 (Total: 280) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Naclstack-0 - 60/60/100/35/65/35 (Total: 355) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Garganacl-0 - 100/100/130/45/90/35 (Total: 500) - Rock/Rock - Purifying Salt/Sturdy/Clear Body
Glimmet-0 - 48/35/42/105/60/60 (Total: 350) - Rock/Poison - Toxic Debris/Toxic Debris/Corrosion
Glimmora-0 - 83/55/90/130/81/86 (Total: 525) - Rock/Poison - Toxic Debris/Toxic Debris/Corrosion
Shroodle-0 - 40/65/35/40/35/75 (Total: 290) - Poison/Normal - Unburden/Pickpocket/Prankster
Grafaiai-0 - 63/95/65/80/72/110 (Total: 485) - Poison/Normal - Unburden/Poison Touch/Prankster
Fidough-0 - 37/55/70/30/55/65 (Total: 312) - Fairy/Fairy - Own Tempo/Own Tempo/Klutz
Dachsbun-0 - 57/80/115/50/80/95 (Total: 477) - Fairy/Fairy - Well-Baked Body/Well-Baked Body/Aroma Veil
Maschiff-0 - 60/78/60/40/51/51 (Total: 340) - Dark/Dark - Intimidate/Run Away/Stakeout
Mabosstiff-0 - 80/120/90/60/70/85 (Total: 505) - Dark/Dark - Intimidate/Guard Dog/Stakeout
Bramblin-0 - 40/65/30/45/35/60 (Total: 275) - Grass/Ghost - Wind Rider/Wind Rider/Infiltrator
Brambleghast-0 - 55/115/70/80/70/90 (Total: 480) - Grass/Ghost - Wind Rider/Wind Rider/Infiltrator
Gimmighoul-0 - 45/30/70/75/70/10 (Total: 300) - Ghost/Ghost - Rattled/Rattled/Rattled
Gimmighoul-1 - 45/30/25/75/45/80 (Total: 300) - Ghost/Ghost - Run Away/Run Away/Run Away
Gholdengo-0 - 87/60/95/133/91/84 (Total: 550) - Steel/Ghost - Good as Gold/Good as Gold/Good as Gold
Great Tusk-0 - 115/131/131/53/53/87 (Total: 570) - Ground/Fighting - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Brute Bonnet-0 - 111/127/99/79/99/55 (Total: 570) - Grass/Dark - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Sandy Shocks-0 - 85/81/97/121/85/101 (Total: 570) - Electric/Ground - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Scream Tail-0 - 115/65/99/65/115/111 (Total: 570) - Fairy/Psychic - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Flutter Mane-0 - 55/55/55/135/135/135 (Total: 570) - Ghost/Fairy - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Slither Wing-0 - 85/135/79/85/105/81 (Total: 570) - Bug/Fighting - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Roaring Moon-0 - 105/139/71/55/101/119 (Total: 590) - Dragon/Dark - Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis/Protosynthesis
Iron Treads-0 - 90/112/120/72/70/106 (Total: 570) - Ground/Steel - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Moth-0 - 80/70/60/140/110/110 (Total: 570) - Fire/Poison - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Hands-0 - 154/140/108/50/68/50 (Total: 570) - Fighting/Electric - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Jugulis-0 - 94/80/86/122/80/108 (Total: 570) - Dark/Flying - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Thorns-0 - 100/134/110/70/84/72 (Total: 570) - Rock/Electric - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Bundle-0 - 56/80/114/124/60/136 (Total: 570) - Ice/Water - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Iron Valiant-0 - 74/130/90/120/60/116 (Total: 590) - Fairy/Fighting - Quark Drive/Quark Drive/Quark Drive
Ting-Lu-0 - 165/110/130/50/80/45 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ground - Vessel of Ruin/Vessel of Ruin/Vessel of Ruin
Chien-Pao-0 - 80/130/80/90/65/135 (Total: 580) - Dark/Ice - Sword of Ruin/Sword of Ruin/Sword of Ruin
Wo-Chien-0 - 85/90/100/100/135/70 (Total: 580) - Dark/Grass - Tablets of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin/Tablets of Ruin
Chi-Yu-0 - 55/80/80/145/120/100 (Total: 580) - Dark/Fire - Beads of Ruin/Beads of Ruin/Beads of Ruin
Koraidon-0 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-1 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-2 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-3 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Koraidon-4 - 100/135/115/85/100/135 (Total: 670) - Fighting/Dragon - Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse/Orichalcum Pulse
Miraidon-0 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-1 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-2 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-3 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Miraidon-4 - 100/85/100/135/115/135 (Total: 670) - Electric/Dragon - Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine/Hadron Engine
Tinkatink-0 - 50/45/45/35/64/58 (Total: 297) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Tinkatuff-0 - 65/55/55/45/82/78 (Total: 380) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Tinkaton-0 - 85/75/77/70/105/94 (Total: 506) - Fairy/Steel - Mold Breaker/Own Tempo/Pickpocket
Charcadet-0 - 40/50/40/50/40/35 (Total: 255) - Fire/Fire - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Flame Body
Armarouge-0 - 85/60/100/125/80/75 (Total: 525) - Fire/Psychic - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Weak Armor
Ceruledge-0 - 75/125/80/60/100/85 (Total: 525) - Fire/Ghost - Flash Fire/Flash Fire/Weak Armor
Toedscool-0 - 40/40/35/50/100/70 (Total: 335) - Ground/Grass - Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might
Toedscruel-0 - 80/70/65/80/120/100 (Total: 515) - Ground/Grass - Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might/Mycelium Might
Kingambit-0 - 100/135/120/60/85/50 (Total: 550) - Dark/Steel - Defiant/Supreme Overlord/Pressure
Clodsire-0 - 130/75/60/45/100/20 (Total: 430) - Poison/Ground - Poison Point/Water Absorb/Unaware
Annihilape-0 - 110/115/80/50/90/90 (Total: 535) - Fighting/Ghost - Vital Spirit/Inner Focus/Defiant

Known TMs

Image with Mons

Info on abilities, items, and moves + other general info

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mlview?pru=AAABhJY-aJ4*wriC5Sz-aCq1TRZHkF69UA

Tierlist maker for fun
OI SV resources
1v1 Discord sv channel
(if anyone has anything else that would be useful/fun feel free to reach out and I'll add it)

Good things you can post about:

• Thoughts on the new mons/forms, which mons look good, which look bad, which look fun, and what you expect to see them running.
• What mons are you excited to see returning? How do you think they'll do compared to previous generations?
• Thoughts on new changes in movepools,abilities, and such? Thoughts on recovery moves being nerfed? What about the moves like knock off and scald that are no longer widely distributed?
• Thoughts on paradox mons? Do you think they'll strictly outclass their counterparts or do you think there will be some that are worse than the original?
  We have a few new items that looks cool like Covert Cloak, and Clear Amulet. What are your thoughts on those and do you think any will become metagame staples?
• Other thoughts, predictions, or concerns

Some general rules and guidelines for this thread

• This thread is for 1v1 discussion ONLY, don't discuss 6v6 or whatever other tiers here please
• NO STORY SPOILERS, just because people are interested in the mons themselves doesn't mean they want to know what happens in game
• Stick with the "confirmed" info please. It gets messy when people all are using their own obscure sources
• Keep serious calls for tiering action on mons for after the games are out. It's fine to say "x thing will probs be broken" but we can't ban stuff until the games are out
• In case it comes up let's keep DLC discussion out of this. It's pointless trying to predict when it comes and what mons come back so stick to the initial release stuff
• And as always please follow the forum rules and be respectful.

 

[clerica]

tagging zo STABLE ciarion Akeras doc1203 Arai since they either expressed interest in a thread or have been talking a bunch on discord about sv

 

[Marshme1to]

Me when really useful spreadsheet isn't found

 

[clerica]

Me when really useful spreadsheet isn't found

its fixed now MB LOL

 

[glitched]

ban tera from sv 1v1

 

[Akeras]

Talk about maushold.
Maushold is a normal type with not really good stats, (74/75/70/65/75/111). Only a good speed. The most important thing is it signature move, Population Bomb that have a base power of 20, and can hit from 1 to 10 times (apparently its always 10 and we didnt know if it became fixed the 1st day) and have technician. We can add at that the Loaded Dice an item who increase the chance of hiting multiple times. If the move hit 10 times, and with technician + stab, it reach a bp of 450. Thats so powerfull for a mouse family.
It has bullet seed, who is a good move for a technician user, and some support mives like taunt, switcheroo or encore.
Don't forget it has Tidy Up, a move removing Substitute and boosting Atk and Spe.
Only thing is his coverage, just low kick to beat steel types.

 

[Marshme1to]

Pastenin part 2 no work

 

[Arai]

I feel like most of us pretty confident that tera is not going to stay for long in the meta, so I've mostly just thought about how it will look without it. I'm really excited when it comes to a lot of the new pokemon as most of them have pretty unique concepts that don't seem to be executed terribly, such as the paradox pokemon. I'm especially excited when it comes to paradox gallade, meowscarada and especially the return of gren. Tinkaton is also really cool but I'm worried it wont be as strong as id like. Also that one sub legendary that essentially is better weavile looks incredibly strong here. Kinda messy but these are just some of my first thoughts.

 

[Adam3560]

lechonk sweep

 

[clerica]

Pastenin part 2 no work

should be up again they break often so let me know if it happens again and I'll try and swap it out

 

[Arai]

Talk about maushold.
Maushold is a normal type with not really good stats, (74/75/70/65/75/111). Only a good speed. The most important thing is it signature move, Population Bomb that have a base power of 20, and can hit from 1 to 10 times (apparently its always 10 and we didnt know if it became fixed the 1st day) and have technician. We can add at that the Loaded Dice an item who increase the chance of hiting multiple times. If the move hit 10 times, and with technician + stab, it reach a bp of 450. Thats so powerfull for a mouse family.

I'd assume the bug will most likely be fixed soon, so even with loaded dice its unlikely to assume that its often hitting 10 times but its still really strong. It also gains access to the move Tidy Up which removes spikes, sticky web, rocks which are fairly irrelevant here, but whats particularly interesting is that it also removes sub and increases your attack and speed which can be really scary. it definitely has a lot of potential.

 

[Akeras]

should be up again they break often so let me know if it happens again and I'll try and swap it out

Pastenin part 2 no work

https://pastebin.com/pghsfRYm

 

[SwordIsBored]

Gholdengo is a Pokémon that feels like it was practically made for 1v1 in some aspects, it's ability makes it immune to Taunt and Encore which is amazing whilst having access to Metal Sound and Nasty Plot to set up. Thunder Wave + Hex is very useable, Steel Beam is interesting and Flash Cannon + Shadow Ball make fine STAB options. Also getting Trick makes this Pokémon interesting and the good typing of ghost steel as well as being fast and nowhere near paper thin makes me feel like this will be a good Pokémon. It suffers from a small move set but I have a feeling when stuff has been banned it will be amazing.

TLDR: Gholdengo is a funky guy and I think he's neat.

 

[STABLE]

EDIT: didnt realize scream tail gets encore disable that asshole is S- for sure
(not ordered within tiers btw)
Tera is obviously being banned as soon as the tier drops I don't want to hear about that mechanic so I obviously didn't count it for the VR I made.
going over the obvious soon to be banned mons and over the obvious S tier Magearna, I don't really see anyone on the same level as Greninja in terms of viability. It is incredibly strong in bulkier metas like SM and ORAS but in SV where the overall power is lower the specs set is gonna hit like a nuke, with still incredible coverage even without hidden powers. Sub Petaya and Physical sets will of course exist but I think one set that it'll probably show is Choice Scarf, to beat mons like Dragapult and Meowscarada who are naturally faster, but also other scarfers.

i put missy-p kinda high honestly because it really just looks like nutty fairy type spectrier and Paradox pokemon are obviously gonna be pushed one tier over due to their ability and the existence of the item that procs their ability on switchin (which obviously means for the entire game in 1v1), meaning that all the paradox mons will be able to run the equivalent of a choice item without being choicelocked (which is insane). That said I still think there's other mons that are as viable if not more, Dragapult's speed will be essential in this faster stronger metagame, Urshifu seems to have a generally good MU vs other broken ass mons and you have a bunch of fairies being good with what seems to be a Dark-type centered metagame.
New additions like Meowscarada Chi-Yu Gimmighoul and Chien-Pao seem quite strong but there's a few sleepers coming from Hisui that may shake the game up. Hisuian Goodra is a fucking monster steel dragon and have you seen that bulk. Enamorus both Incarnate and Therian have quite good stats and the oh so broken fairy typing, with incarnate specifically having contrary although it does not seem like he can abuse it in any way. hisuian thugg and kleavor also seem to be somewhat decent. Big thing are also returning mons that weren't here for SM: Hoopa-U, Meloetta, Slaking, Jumpluff, Vivillon, Donphan and maybe Breloom all can prove quite interesting.
We lost a few mons like Sawk (NOOOOO) Togekiss and Jirachi (HOLY SHITTTTT) but overall I'm hype for the new guys to see if they're actually epic or suck big donkey nuts.

I think this is a good sum up you could share with anyone who hasn't been up to date with leaks but wants to see what's coming. ok bye

 

[pannu]

View attachment 465105
(not ordered within tiers btw)
Tera is obviously being banned as soon as the tier drops I don't want to hear about that mechanic so I obviously didn't count it for the VR I made.
going over the obvious soon to be banned mons and over the obvious S tier Magearna, I don't really see anyone on the same level as Greninja in terms of viability. It is incredibly strong in bulkier metas like SM and ORAS but in SV where the overall power is lower the specs set is gonna hit like a nuke, with still incredible coverage even without hidden powers. Sub Petaya and Physical sets will of course exist but I think one set that it'll probably show is Choice Scarf, to beat mons like Dragapult and Meowscarada who are naturally faster, but also other scarfers.

i put missy-p kinda high honestly because it really just looks like nutty fairy type spectrier and Paradox pokemon are obviously gonna be pushed one tier over due to their ability and the existence of the item that procs their ability on switchin (which obviously means for the entire game in 1v1), meaning that all the paradox mons will be able to run the equivalent of a choice item without being choicelocked (which is insane). That said I still think there's other mons that are as viable if not more, Dragapult's speed will be essential in this faster stronger metagame, Urshifu seems to have a generally good MU vs other broken ass mons and you have a bunch of fairies being good with what seems to be a Dark-type centered metagame.
New additions like Meowscarada Chi-Yu Gimmighoul and Chien-Pao seem quite strong but there's a few sleepers coming from Hisui that may shake the game up. Hisuian Goodra is a fucking monster steel dragon and have you seen that bulk. Enamorus both Incarnate and Therian have quite good stats and the oh so broken fairy typing, with incarnate specifically having contrary although it does not seem like he can abuse it in any way. hisuian thugg and kleavor also seem to be somewhat decent. Big thing are also returning mons that weren't here for SM: Hoopa-U, Meloetta, Slaking, Jumpluff, Vivillon, Donphan and maybe Breloom all can prove quite interesting.
We lost a few mons like Sawk (NOOOOO) Togekiss and Jirachi (HOLY SHITTTTT) but overall I'm hype for the new guys to see if they're actually epic or suck big donkey nuts.

I think this is a good sum up you could share with anyone who hasn't been up to date with leaks but wants to see what's coming. ok bye

hi stable, i think that URSALUNA is probably higher than C-tier! cool list tho

 

[Akeras]

Talking about : Dachsund

Daschund is a fairy type, who have the incredible ability named Aroma Veil, and a new ability named Well-Baked Body that immune him to fire attacks and raised his Def when hit by them. But he doesnt have moves and stat to be paired with that. With a great Def of 115, and a decent SpD of 80, it have only 54 HP, that is really bad. If we take a look on the moves, we can see Yawn, Snarl, and... its all the relevant moves. Definitely bad.

 

[ciarion]

New mons are kinda cool, here's potential sets + my thoughts on a lot of them. I might make another post later for the Paradox mons, Ruin Tapus, Legends Arceus mons, and Paldean forms.

Espathra

Espathra @ Choice Specs / Assault Vest
Ability: Speed Boost
- Lumina Crash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Tera Blast / Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball

Characterized by Lumina Crash + Speed Boost, Espathra can deal 240 (before STAB) Psychic damage over 2 turns, or 480 over 3 turns. Unfortunately its bulk is quite weak but I'm still excited to see if it can have a niche.

Arboliva

Arboliva @ Leftovers / Resist Berry
Ability: Seed Sower / Harvest
- Leech Seed
- Strength Sap
- Mirror Coat
- Leaf Storm

With the nerfs to almost all Recovery moves, Arboliva can potentially do something with its access to the unnerfed Strength Sap. Unfortunately its stats are similar to Cradily's, which is not great.

Bellibolt

Bellibolt @ Air Balloon
Ability: Electromorphosis
- Thunderbolt
- Acid Spray
- Eerie Impulse / Chilling Water
- Sucker Punch

The idea is that you are forced to hit Bellibolt with a non-Super Effective move due to Air Balloon, proccing Electromorphosis. Unfortunately +2 Thunderbolt is unable to OHKO even non-resist, zero bulk, 100/100 Pokemon. I can't really see this mon being usable.

Cetitan

Cetitan @ Assault Vest?
Ability: Sheer Force
- Icicle Crash
- Heavy Slam
- Play Rough
- Liquidation

Cetitan @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
- Amnesia
- Charm
- Rest
- Tera Blast

Cetitan @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat / Sheer Force
- Yawn
- Protect
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash

Cool mon, just a fat mon with Snorlax stats but 65 less SpD in exchange for 10 HP, 3 Atk, and 43 Speed. Could be pretty good, might be broken with Tera making it not an Ice type.

Baxcalibur

Baxcalibur @ ?
Ability: Thermal Exchange
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Glaive Rush
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake

New Dragon has 145 Atk and can't be burned. Might be an interesting alternative to Kyurem but I think Kyurem outclasses it in the majority of cases.

Tatsugiri

Tatsugiri
- Mirror Coat, Counter, Nasty Plot, Drago Meteor, Hydro Pump/Surf

I'm going to be devastated when this mon ends up never being used

Pawmot

Pawmot @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb / Iron Fist
- Double Shock
- Charm / Bulk Up
- Eerie Impulse
- Encore

Other moves: Close Combat/Mach Punch/Wish/Fake Out/Elemental Punches/Play Rough/Crunch/Seed Bomb

Everyone's only talking about Revival Blessing- What about Double Shock, the 120 BP Physical Electric Move with 100% Accuracy (that removes the user's Electric Type)? Stally Pawmot might just be worse Arcanine but surely someone can make this mon viable somehow.

Gargancl

Garganacl @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Clear Body/Purifying Salt
- Salt Cure / Toxic
- Recover
- Iron Defense
- Body Press

Garganacl @ Choice Band
Ability: Purifying Salt/Sturdy
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm / Rock Blast / Avalanche / Body Press
- Heavy Slam

I think Gargancl has an interesting set of qualities for a Sturdy pokemon - it has access to Recover, Purifying Salt can punish people hoping to Wisp/Toxic, and it has good bulk at 100/130/90. Its 100 Atk stat and Rock typing are pretty bad but I have a small bit of hope for this mon.

Grafaiai

Grafaiai @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
- Substitute
- Dig
- Copycat
- Taunt / Gunk Shot / Acrobatics / Encore

Riolu 2 except it has better stats and moves probably

Gholdengo

Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
- Trick
- Recover/Rest
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
Other moves: Nasty Plot/Reflect/Light Screen/Power Gem/Focus Blast/Psyshock/Dazzling Gleam

Gholdengo's ability makes it immune to Encore, which is one of the major answers to Scarf + Trick. It is also notably immune to Disable. I think this mon could genuinely be solid, although Steel/Ghost isn't great for coverage as can be seen in gen 8 Aegislash.

 

[Akeras]

Talking About : Meowscarada

Meowscarda has an incredible ability, Protean, and good stats, with an Atk of 110 and a speed of 123.
It has many coverage moves (not the most powerfull but are good with protean), can have an stabed Giga Impact, get access to Leech Seed and to Trick, and to a signature move named Flower Trick, always resulting on a critical hit.
Can be a middle tier mon, some example of sets :

Meowscarada @ Leftovers
Ability : Overgrow
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Flower Trick

Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability : Protean
- Trick
- Flower Trick
- Hyper Beam
- Sucker Punch

 

[zo]

View attachment 465105
(not ordered within tiers btw)
Tera is obviously being banned as soon as the tier drops I don't want to hear about that mechanic so I obviously didn't count it for the VR I made.
going over the obvious soon to be banned mons and over the obvious S tier Magearna, I don't really see anyone on the same level as Greninja in terms of viability. It is incredibly strong in bulkier metas like SM and ORAS but in SV where the overall power is lower the specs set is gonna hit like a nuke, with still incredible coverage even without hidden powers. Sub Petaya and Physical sets will of course exist but I think one set that it'll probably show is Choice Scarf, to beat mons like Dragapult and Meowscarada who are naturally faster, but also other scarfers.

i put missy-p kinda high honestly because it really just looks like nutty fairy type spectrier and Paradox pokemon are obviously gonna be pushed one tier over due to their ability and the existence of the item that procs their ability on switchin (which obviously means for the entire game in 1v1), meaning that all the paradox mons will be able to run the equivalent of a choice item without being choicelocked (which is insane). That said I still think there's other mons that are as viable if not more, Dragapult's speed will be essential in this faster stronger metagame, Urshifu seems to have a generally good MU vs other broken ass mons and you have a bunch of fairies being good with what seems to be a Dark-type centered metagame.
New additions like Meowscarada Chi-Yu Gimmighoul and Chien-Pao seem quite strong but there's a few sleepers coming from Hisui that may shake the game up. Hisuian Goodra is a fucking monster steel dragon and have you seen that bulk. Enamorus both Incarnate and Therian have quite good stats and the oh so broken fairy typing, with incarnate specifically having contrary although it does not seem like he can abuse it in any way. hisuian thugg and kleavor also seem to be somewhat decent. Big thing are also returning mons that weren't here for SM: Hoopa-U, Meloetta, Slaking, Jumpluff, Vivillon, Donphan and maybe Breloom all can prove quite interesting.
We lost a few mons like Sawk (NOOOOO) Togekiss and Jirachi (HOLY SHITTTTT) but overall I'm hype for the new guys to see if they're actually epic or suck big donkey nuts.

I think this is a good sum up you could share with anyone who hasn't been up to date with leaks but wants to see what's coming. ok bye

spectrier gains dkiss so id move it up

enamorus will be degenerate as hell but i guess its fine there for now

sneasler might be... really funny

fgallade up tinkaton maybe up??? i dont remember tinkatons movepool but i know it gets sd + fairy/steel is still broken typing

rilla should go hella down it lost all of its good coverage + glide its completely walled by mons it used to beat like tran

i dont really care to armchair the rest of the tierlist as its roughly accurate to where i would place things

 

[zo]

actually ill just rank all the paradox mons

these placements are post-tera ban; maybe mecha ttar is better if it can utilize tera or something

1. Flutter Mane - obviously this is gonna top the list lol. i think this mon has the funniest stat distribution ive ever seen, and i expect it to beat most other special attackers. struggles a lot with common priority and its typing isnt helping in that department but granted its physbulk is just barely enough for most prio (252+ Atk Urshifu Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 204-240 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). the ability to easily dominate mons that fairies repeatedly find themselves teched or outplayed by (such as spectrier) is just super nice and thats why its prolly gonna be the best paradox mon

2. Scream Tail - difficult to place but it has the capacity to be degenerate as hell, its bulk is literally better than aromatisses and itll probably end up an encoredisable bot but thats not a problem as it was also aromatisses entire personality.

3. Roaring Moon - it was really weird to place this too but despite its pretty shit typing i think itll have a fine niche as the ghost types this gen are gonna be even more broken. wouldnt be surprised if people ran roseli just to survive a flutter mane moonblast and ohko with crunch. also its still a dragon which still has merit as the third best type in the entire videogame and thus naturally matches up well against fwg teams if they dont fall out of favor before this thing can even get a chance to be developed

4. Iron Valiant - they finally made gallade good and it only took 2 tries
so this guy can run mixed, special attacker, physical attacker, sd, screen wp, taunt, encore, disable, lol? i thought this would be banworthy but i realize now the metagame isnt quite gonna be ohkod by a +1 moonblast or +1 focus blast right off the bat but i still think something with 130/120 offenses and 116 speed is gonna be pretty insane. or maybe itll have kyurem syndrome! we shall see.

5. Iron Treads - ground/steel is tried and true, a solid typing on fast pokemon. and guess what, future donphan delivers with a 106 speed stat! now, it wont match up very well against some other paradoxes but this guy has the potential to break through some very annoying mons, like flutter mane and goodra-h

6. Iron Bundle - woahhh dude this is gonna be so insane LOOK at that spa and spe XDDDDDD
no its not its still a delibird lol. okay its probably gonna be decent because you can just boost spa and ohko anything you hit supereffectively but given that it terribly lacks in coverage i dont see this defeating the actually good pokemon of the tier (like, yknow, urshifu and gren and flutter mane). and when i say lacks in coverage i mean its literal only non-ice/water attacking moves are uturn, fling, swift, acrobatics, play rough, air cutter, and the recharge moves.

7. Iron Moth - so uh fun fact this lost qd LOL. its not gonna be that bad but fire/poison has some particularly nasty weaknesses so its really gonna have to hit hard turn 1 in order to compensate. fortunately, 140 spa right out the gate along with the ability to add specs on top of that makes it pretty easy.

8. Iron Hands - wouldve been way better 1 gen ago where the best fairies were also waters and thus you autowon but they have evolved to not only have water as their secondary typing so. idk. this could go higher or lower, fighting/electric isnt bad typing.

9. Iron Jugulis - wtf is a jugulis
anyway hydreigon pawned off his shitty quadruple weakness to fairy on past salamence for a pretty decent typing all things considered, the main issue will be finding matchups it actually wins as opposed to "matchups it can win with enough confusion hax" from a now stab boosted hurricane

10. Great Tusk - in ou this is probably gonna be solid (theyre gonna need spinners soon) but like it feels quite exploitable with such low spdef and its speed isnt particularly impressive either. maybe itll end up doing some funny reversal nonsense, and headlong rush IS a great move, but idk it feels kinda meh.

11. Slither Wing - surprisingly being walled by both the entire fairy type AND the entire ghost type with no way to compensate is pretty sad. doesnt even get knock or a steel move, rip. at least it has leech life and first impression

12. Sandy Shocks - magnezone (it has sturdy and this mon does not)

13. Iron Thorns - they did ttar SO fucking dirty with this transformation, literally everything about it is worse:
it loses sand stream, which contributed to its ability to overwhelm fairy types with its massive special bulk
it loses the dark type, which contributed to its ability to reliably defeat dragapult
it gains an electric type, extremely compounding its existing weakness to every ground type (say hi to mr landorus therian) AND railroading it into a type that has PATHETIC physical coverage
it loses a decent chunk of spa, providing even less incentive to use its new electric typing
it loses a decent chunk of spd, further weakening it to the fairies it used to beat
AND IT LOSES 30 STAT POINTS FOR NO REASON
dont use this mon.

14: Brute Bonnet - its just amoonguss with more weaknesses? and it doesnt beat fairies anymore? who, yknow, have gotten WAY better? it loses to fairies???

placements r subject to change based on how the meta plays out obviously, and these rankings are relative to each other not relative to the actual vr

 

[DreamPrince]

I wonder if the Lake Guardians could have a niche thanks to their new Signature Move, Mystical Power. It grants a Sp. Atk increase every use, making it a boosting option that can keep momentum and not be blocked by Taunt. Uxie in particular has Encore, so I'm inclined to try a Weakness Policy set 3 Attacks + Encore. While it has always been overshadowed by Cresselia previously, Uxie now actually has higher Defensive stats thanks to Cresselia's stat nerfs. I'll probably put some calcs later.

 

[ciarion]

Zo already talked a lot about the Paradox mons, but here's some more thoughts

Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
- Heavy Slam
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Fake Out / Earthquake / Play Rough

With Assault Vest and 188 SpDef, Iron Hands can tank a +1 Moonblast from modest Flutter Mane and KO in return with Heavy Slam. It can also tank +2 Moonblast from WP Iron Valiant, albeit requiring much heavier investment (and who knows if Heavy Slam reaches 120 BP vs Valiant).

Scream Tail @ Choice Scarf
- Trick
- Disable

Trick/Disable is a nice switch-up to Encore/Disable (see Sableye from gen 8). Scream Tail has crazy bulk and speed compared to the other Trick/Encore/Disable users (Alakazam, Gengar, Gardevoir, Gallade).

Iron Valiant @ Choice Scarf
- Trick
- Disable

Iron Valiant also gets Trick/Encore/Disable. It has less bulk than Scream Tail, but access to much higher damage and set diversity. Forcing set guesses between Screens/WP, Encore/Disable, Trick/Disable, Sub/Reversal, Taunt, and SD/CM Offenses seems pretty unhealthy to me but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[zioziotrip]

spent an ungodly amount of time on this just for it to be mostly wrong, but going through the new mons I'm super excited for this meta, I'll go over what I think are cool mons. I gave up on ordering halfway through cuz who knows, list is meant to be general anw

flutter mane: statspread is insane it's probably just offrip gonna beat anything special or fat cuz it gets taunt fsr. if it wants to it can be a faster spect running stab/charm/cm/taunt even w the option of boosting its speed to become the fastest mon in the tier w no speed invest and no drawback beside item slot lmao but I think sitrus is prob better if u opt for the spect set. could also just run offensive or some shit but I think it's better off just abusing its ludicrous speed tier for a stall mon.

scream tail: garde was broken last gen with terrible bulk and a mediocre speed tier, scream tail does not suffer from either of these issues. I can honestly see it being broken, there's some faster stuff like pult and slower shit like some non-choice steels maybe but the counterplay seems very limited to like mental herb or aroma veil. protect/disable/encore/pr w lefties is probably optimal

gren: I have gren ranked this highly but I doubt it remains here throughout the gen, I think ppl are overrating it in sv. it has all the prior counterplay it did beforehand (sufficient amount of very good mons that can't lose to it like volcanion/hoopa/goodra-h/drago, the item choice scarf, mons naturally faster, stall mons, etc.) and lost two pretty big tools in z moves and hidden power. it's greninja so it'll live but I don't see this mon as close to top 3

meowscarada: the speedtier is super good for a mon that can throw off 110 atk stab gigas (stronger than it sounds I promise) and having some cool other options. meow can choose normal or grass t1 as a subseeder (cuz of protean nerf) which potentially can let it cheese weaker fires/poisons tho ultimately its poor bulk will prob fail it. subovergrow w petal blizzard is probably usable. the breadwinner is def cb but I think this mon has a lot of potential even w its lackluster coverage.

goodra-hisui: this shit seems crazzzzzzzzzzzy. it's very fat on both sides while not being weak either. I can see a ton of shit like wp, weakness berries, choice, or ol' reliable av working for goodra-h. goodra that isn't weak to fairy or dragon is insane, ground and fighting weaknesses are 100% worth the tradeoff.

tinkatok: this shit is so funny. if u didn't know the 160 bp move is not like giga it's basically just self torment kek. I can see this mon shredding shit w dual stab combo even if its attack is fucking ASS just cuz it's also hard to kill in return. idk I could see this mon being way worse than I have it but it seems epic.

slaking: THE GOAT RETURNS!!!!!!!!!!! HERE TO SHOW THESE KIDS HOW IT'S DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chansey: stoss chansey is gone NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it will have to settle for top 15 instead of top 3. I think the recovery nerf is inconsequential to this mon (you basically never click boiled 8 times) but the inability to touch sub w/o relying on some dogshit like hvoice or tbolt is really annoying.

enamorus: toge typing with none of the finesse. I mean, looks okay. I will be fail to ohko then immediately explode to a stray breeze the pokemon not expecting much. I will not lie I did not look at incarnate's movepool that shit looks CRAZY but it's okay uhhhhhhhh something beats it probably.

arcanine (archy) the second: arcanine with head smash is funny as fuck I just wish it did not die to bulldoze or water gun cuz otherwise it would be epic.

jumpluff and vivillion: can't wait for people to complain about these shits with their heinous 98% accurate (very luck based) sleep moves. I hope between these pokemon and greninja+meowman that people realize choice scarf and stall mons are real (similar to the one piece)

SCOVILLAIN: after 2000 years we finally have a fire grass mon and even tho its statspread is middling it has an effective +4 on one turn move for attack so I refuse to believe it doesn't have SOME niche. this name is also epic

conclusion:

obviously tera is broken but it'll be quirky for the one week it's allowed. I think even if u like add a mod that shows tera types on preview it's still cancer cuz its an inherently broken mech w triple stab+adapt on everything and toxic for the tier as every mon has like infinite viable variants.

if paradox mons end up being broken due to the item (energy booster) I prefer we just ban the item over the mons. I doubt the item is actually that nuts but I'd be pissed if mwah smogon policy got in the way of making the tier objectively better w a ban that's not even complex (really difficult to understand banning an item I know)

encore distribution this gen is heinous the fact that it was made a tm is horrible I don't even want to think abt the mess that are the longterm implications of it I'm really hoping the insane power creep curbs how crazy encore stuff is.

meta looks fire, I hope it isn't tiered as horribly as ss was!

-The Tripster

 

[Joker 1v1]

Player side of this: Staples will end up playing the format with no sleep like they did at the start of gen 8. They will end up saying some physical mon with an ability that grants more dmg paired with a special pokemon (most likely a fairy type) w/ a special attack enhancing item and/or prio move.

Smely will be playing on their alt account spamming "meta" pokemon from the start whenever they play as they need to put the sweat for some reason.

xstatic cold who people will look towards to see whats good, will say everything is shit and the gen is trash. he will continue to argue with randoms who build the dumbest things and claim they are good.

elo bandit will debate whether or not gen 9 is content worthy

lrxc will be hosting random adv 1v1 tours all week for no apparent reason <------ most likely out of everything ive mentioned

 

[zo]

we need to think of nicknames for the new mons, i have a few (like mecha ttar for iron thorns and val for valiant) but not many beyond that