Sabelette
from the river to the sea
RBY NU Poliwhirl Suspect Test
Yes I'm absolutely reusing this joke from the APT Suspect, don't @ me
Yes I'm absolutely reusing this joke from the APT Suspect, don't @ me
In response to both community debate within the RBY NU Thread (see here and here as well as discussions following these posts) and the RBY Discord, as well as Poliwhirl being banned from NUSD III, allowing a "pre-test" for a Poliwhirl-less tier, the RBY NU Council has decided to suspect test Poliwhirl. This suspect test was decided on by the RBY NU Council, and was approved by the RBY Lower Tiers Leader (phoopes).
Parallel thread for non-voters here.
RBY NU has undergone significant meta development in the last 6 months as a number of individual and team tournaments occurred, and throughout these tournaments perhaps no Pokemon has been more controversial than Poliwhirl. Due to its powerful combination of Hypnosis and Amnesia, it is able to disable one opponent for up to seven turns and then double its Special stat as the opponent is forced to switch out, granting it both increased longevity and massively increased damage against whatever comes in to face it. This is backed by a base Speed of 90 (quite high for NU), allowing it to revenge sleep most of the tier, including staples such as Clefable, Blastoise, and Kabutops. Thus, it has become infamous for its ability to remove two or even three opposing Pokemon by itself should it land Hypnosis, as few opponents can defeat a boosted Poliwhirl without suffering near-fatal damage in return.
It has become perhaps equally infamous for missing Hypnosis 40% of the time and being KOed after one or two misses, leaving the Poliwhirl user significantly behind in this fast-paced, offensive tier. Games can often hinge on the result of a Hypnosis due to a highly-contested Speed tier occupied by Poliwhirl, Venomoth, Mr. Mime, and Moltres, adding to the sense of variance and "hax" in the tier. It also is OHKOed by Thunderbolt critical hits, and due to the increased crit rates in RBY, this sometimes results in a Mr. Mime or Clefable obliterating it instantly. Thus, a large portion of the debate has centered around not only whether it is too powerful, but also whether this level of variance is healthy for the tier; as Hypnosis's accuracy is 59.6%, it is a favorable but risky gamble, leading to many lopsided games where a speed tie or Hypnosis miss swings a game into a quick 6v4 or worse. The favorability of this gamble is reflected in the usage stats, as time and again Poliwhirl finds itself the fifth-most used Pokemon in RBY NU, only behind tier staples Mr. Mime, Clefable, Charizard, and Blastoise, all of whom are tenuous checks to Poliwhirl.
Those who support keeping Poliwhirl in the tier point to several critiques: firstly, it speed ties with the other premier sleeper, Venomoth, who brings a more accurate sleep move in Sleep Powder and additional support with Stun Spore, allowing it to sometimes remove two or more opposing Pokemon given good paralysis luck or critical hits. Some believe the tier is more diverse with Poliwhirl in it, pointing to niches carved out by Pokemon such as Primeape as anti-leads that are effective against Poliwhirl, but had no place in NUSD, where Poliwhirl was banned. Others believe that Poliwhirl should not be banned but rather that Sleep as a whole should be banned from the tier, stating they would prefer to see Poliwhirl legal as an Amnesia-boosting Pokemon without the variance caused by Hypnosis.
The difference between the pre-NUSD tournaments and NUSD III, where Poliwhirl was banned by the tournament hosts, is stark. While both sported heavy usage of the oft-maligned "big 5" structure (Mr. Mime, Clefable, Charizard, Blastoise, and either Poliwhirl or Venomoth), the lead metagame especially has shifted. In the Poliwhirl meta, Poliwhirl maintained over 50% usage despite competing with Venomoth for a team slot, even topping 60% in RBY PL III, where Venomoth saw a mere 17% usage. Later developments saw players try Pokemon such as Ninetales, Primeape or even Fearow as leads to try to stop Poliwhirl leads from breaking open the game, though these remained rare and the typical leads were Charizard, Poliwhirl, Venomoth, and Mr. Mime, leading to frequent speed ties on turn 1. With Poliwhirl banned, many played defaulted to leading Charizard in NUSD III, though Venomoth and Mr. Mime remained popular; Ninetales, Blastoise, and Wigglytuff also saw use. Venomoth reached high usage in NUSD III as the tier's now-untied fastest sleeper, seeing usage rates between 50-80% each week.
Due to the controversial nature of Poliwhirl in the tier and the ongoing debates about its power level and variance, a suspect test will be held to clarify the issue.
We anticipate several questions regarding this suspect test, which will be answered here:
"Why not Sleep as a whole?"
This was heavily debated by tournament organizers and the community on various platforms. It is difficult to ascertain if Sleep itself is broken in NU, as it allows for skill expression when revenge killing or choosing what Pokemon to send in by using Charizard, Mr. Mime, or other fast Pokemon to prevent free entry for Venomoth and Exeggcute. Few players would suggest Exeggcute is too powerful for the tier and Venomoth is difficult to discuss when eclipsed so heavily by Poliwhirl. Additionally, due to the Sleep ban in UU, it is expected a large number of Sleep users with varying benefits, drawbacks, and speed tiers will drop into NU as of the next UU Viability Rankings. Thus, banning Sleep feels preemptive until the impact of these new Pokemon can be evaluated. If Sleep remains hotly debated after this suspect, a Sleep suspect may be held, as in RBY UU.
"Why not ban Amnesia, or complex ban Sleep+Amnesia on the same set?"
This does not fit typical tiering policy and should not be a first resort when tiering; suspecting Poliwhirl first makes more sense.
"What about Charizard?"
While calls for Charizard to be suspected have occurred, the majority of these calls came from players who did not play the tier frequently, and the reason stated was often Fire Spin or the combination of Toxic and a fast Fire Spin user. The meta has not borne out these moves as problematic as an ever-increasing number of players shy away from Fire Spin's inconsistency. While concerns about Charizard's combination of high Speed and Swords Dance are valid, it does not appear to be contentious enough to warrant a suspect at present.
Qualifying Players & Methodology
The following requirements will determine our Voter Pool:
- Won 2 games, or played 3 games and won at least 1, in the following team tours: NUSD III, RBYPL III
- Placed in the Top 4 of the RBY NU Open I (RBY Grand Slam)
- Placed in the Top 2 of the RoA's NU Spotlight Tour
- Placed in the Top 6 of the RBY NU Cup (NU Classic)
- ArcticBreeze (NU Classic)
- AM (NU Classic)
- BugCatcherBoat (NU Classic)
- chub (NU Classic, RBYPL III, NUSD III)
- eifo (NU Classic)
- Frrf (RBYPL III, NUSD III)
- InfernoDragon (Grand Slam)
- juoean (Spotlight)
- KaiserKaiba (Grand Slam)
- Koalacance (NUSD III)
- Mendeez (RBYPL III)
- Mikon (Spotlight)
- Monai (RBYPL III)
- MrSoup (NU Classic)
- nicole7735 (NUSD III)
- phoopes (NUSD III)
- royzin (NUSD III)
- Sabelette (Grand Slam, RBYPL III, NUSD III)
- Serpi (Grand Slam)
- SOMALIA (RBYPL III)
- stunner047 (NUSD III)
- Thor (NUSD III)
This thread will be open for two weeks to allow players to gather their thoughts and discuss Poliwhirl within RBY NU, after which a blind voting thread will be made for the qualifying players to cast their votes. Blind voting will open on January 27th!
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