Format Discussion Super Staff Bros 4 Discussion Thread

HiZo

我が為に苦しめ。我が為に狂い泣け。我が為に死ね。
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Going to add same type clause functionality to staff bros.

Makes this chaotic format even more so by dictating your type matchups for you. For the use of tours and stuff.


edit: tough shit if you get the monofighting 5 mon team lol.
 
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HiZo

我が為に苦しめ。我が為に狂い泣け。我が為に死ね。
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Just give them a second instruct as their last mon, but it's a Lucario with riolu stats

(Or just give them Cake/fart because they can be fighting type)
If gen 2 monorandbats can give you solely gengar and misdreavus as a team then I can be ok if someone gets 5 mons due to a lack of type variety
 
If gen 2 monorandbats can give you solely gengar and misdreavus as a team then I can be ok if someone gets 5 mons due to a lack of type variety
Thinking about it, 2 instructs would be absolutely broken anyway. Soda break continuously and they can't ever move.
 
Talking of Cake and Fart, how will you handle pokémon which have different typing than their usual ones (e.g. Will Hydro be allowed on mono-water teams, and will fart only be allowed on steel/grass teams)?
 

HiZo

我が為に苦しめ。我が為に狂い泣け。我が為に死ね。
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Talking of Cake and Fart, how will you handle pokémon which have different typing than their usual ones (e.g. Will Hydro be allowed on mono-water teams, and will fart only be allowed on steel/grass teams)?
If they have a type change modified directly, then they should be directed to their modified types. If they have a type change through an (innate) ability then they will go via their base type.
 
Some minor changes that I think would be logical

Triple threat shouldn't restart after 3 uses
Kip Up should endure multi-hits, just like endure itself does
Mad hacks should just increase stats if used during Trick Room
Grim's set should have draco removed/replaced from the movepool (Core Enforcer is almost always better, and doesn't leave you vulnerable to setup)
Ptoad should only gain croak boosts if croak is successful
Inversion Terrain: Pokémon cannot suffer full paralysis
Win condition should be used separately, so you don't magic bounce venoshocks and fire blasts.
Cake: Kevin should go primary type + secondary type effectiveness (So that, for example, fire ghost Kevin acts like baleful blaze and still hits normal types, but ghost fire Kevin will be ineffective against normal types, but cannot be ignored by flash fire)
Gimmick: Echoed voice modifier only applies to sound moves
 
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UT

Roaring 20s, tossing pennies in the pool
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Appeals + C&C Lead
Some minor changes that I think would be logical

Triple threat shouldn't restart after 3 uses
Kip Up should endure multi-hits, just like endure itself does
Mad hacks should just increase stats if used during Trick Room
Grim's set should have draco removed/replaced from the movepool (Core Enforcer is almost always better, and doesn't leave you vulnerable to setup)
Ptoad should only gain croak boosts if croak is successful
Inversion Terrain: Pokémon cannot suffer full paralysis
Win condition should be used separately, so you don't magic bounce venoshocks and fire blasts.
Cake: Kevin should go primary type + secondary type effectiveness (So that, for example, fire ghost Kevin acts like baleful blaze and still hits normal types, but ghost fire Kevin will be ineffective against normal types, but cannot be ignored by flash fire)
Seconding all of these suggestions, except maybe the Cake one. I actually wish Baleful Blaze and Hydrostatics worked like Kevin, I cannot tell you how many times I've been hit super effectively by one of those when I thought I was immune (losing Quag in particular sucks)

Also, is Soup-Stealing bugged right now? Last several times I have use it, it changed my type but did no damage.
 

HiZo

我が為に苦しめ。我が為に狂い泣け。我が為に死ね。
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Another month, another look at this month's winrate

RankPokemonDeviationsWinrateGamesWins
1Piloswine3.15901661.340206%194119
2Yveltal2.84825961.5894%15193
3Slaking2.75681160.000004%190114
4Spectrier2.587274859.562843%183109
5Mantine2.52024859.34066%182108
6Keldeo-Resolute2.304819658.04878%205119
7Garchomp2.01028357.216496%194111
8Gengar1.759765756.451614%186105
9Lapras-Gmax1.709576756.353592%181102
10Snom1.63978356.11111%180101
11Shaymin1.605909856.14035%17196
12Bisharp1.57845755.932205%17799
13Sneasel1.560917955.801105%181101
14Jellicent1.535671655.61497%187104
15Drampa1.466703955.121952%205113
16Aegislash1.459993255.921055%15285
17Dodrio1.435916555.15464%194107
18Pikachu1.388729255.35714%16893
19Zapdos1.29903854.6875%192105
20Volcanion1.270638854.7486%17998
21Lotad1.254119254.36893%206112
22Jirachi1.219989154.651165%17294
23Necrozma-Dawn-Wings1.173177854.30108%186101
24Honchkrow1.108832254.098362%18399
25Pangoro1.096908954.010696%187101
26Absol1.074173253.846157%195105
27TapuFini1.037571453.588516%209112
28Celebi1.021055953.723408%188101
29Leafeon1.015667153.68421%190102
30Munchlax0.99493753.535355%198106
31Dragapult0.977139153.672314%17795
32Spinda0.940645853.403137%191102
33Kingdra0.8528020453.0303%198105
34Hippowdon0.779769752.76382%199105
35Quagsire0.7720482352.70936%203107
36Weezing-Galar0.745356252.77778%18095
37Latios0.707105752.499996%200105
38Phantump0.6764806552.54237%17793
39Rhydon0.606478552.29885%17491
40Unown0.589767652.173912%18496
41Pichu0.5714288452.040817%196102
42Forretress0.554700151.923077%208108
43Glastrier0.5384617452.071007%16988
44Lycanroc0.5146501751.89189%18596
45Lopunny0.4730166251.598175%219113
46Wingull0.460179951.76471%17088
47Zekrom0.447212951.666664%18093
48Gyarados0.4307745751.54639%194100
49Azelf0.4264015651.515152%198102
50Zygarde0.375822151.412426%17791
51Dragonite0.363697251.322754%18997
52Mimikyu0.3442140251.184834%211108
53Venusaur0.2170721350.78534%19197
54Stoutland0.2095283650.731705%205104
55Lampent0.1543032550.595238%16885
56Typhlosion0.1490716550.555557%18091
57Hattrem0.1458657250.531918%18895
58Grimmsnarl0.145094750.526314%19096
59Camerupt0.1443372250.520832%19297
60Mew0.1435908150.51546%19498
61Nosepass0.07692367650.29586%16985
62Mr.Rime0.0764716150.292397%17186
63Jigglypuff0.0760284350.289017%17387
64Carbink0.0743299650.276245%18191
65Audino0.0735217450.27027%18593
66Hoopa050%15678
67Aggron-0.0788108749.68944%16180
68Mismagius-0.1499064449.4382%17888
69Naviathan-0.228085349.13295%17385
70Cinderace-0.3104600648.79518%16681
71Toxtricity-0.3142691648.765434%16279
72Minior-0.384615448.52071%16982
73Rayquaza-0.408248448.61111%216105
74Ludicolo-0.408248448.61111%216105
75Weedle-0.4200841548.52941%20499
76Lucario-0.503871348.186527%19393
77Meloetta-0.506502748.167538%19192
78Flygon-0.5685354547.979797%19895
79Tauros-0.5714288447.959183%19694
80Runerigus-0.583459847.87234%18890
81Garbodor-0.641223347.715736%19794
82Palpitoad-0.6616936347.567566%18588
83Orbeetle-0.70493447.239265%16377
84Aurorus-0.729324547.340427%18889
85Nidoking-0.729324547.340427%18889
86Mareanie-0.745356247.22222%18085
87Reuniclus-0.7580986647.126434%17482
88Chandelure-0.7669651547.058823%17080
89Mewtwo-0.800132447.089947%18989
90Duraludon-0.8043998547.058823%18788
91Froslass-0.8333331346.52778%14467
92Alcremie-0.8485281547%20094
93Klefki-0.914990646.51163%17280
94Latias-0.9258204746.42857%16878
95Kartana-0.9609870346.44809%18385
96Furret-1.000000546.42857%19691
97Uxie-1.037571446.411484%20997
98Shedinja-1.067489945.930233%17279
99Beedrill-1.074172146.153847%19590
100Stonjourner-1.12575646.039604%20293
101Xurkitree-1.236245645.754715%21297
102Snorlax-1.414213545%20090
103Archeops-1.436264644.57143%17578
104Litwick-1.496187744.67005%19788
105Cosmog-1.507557344.31818%17678
106Shiinotic-1.51950644.50262%19185
107Pancham-1.769076643.98148%21695
108Oricorio-Pom-Pom-1.801498942.944786%16370
109Charizard-1.840715642.941177%17073
110Volcarona-1.90515843.51852%21694
111Kirlia-2.09836642.40838%19181
112Polteageist-2.165133542.439026%20587
113Espeon-2.274140641.919193%19883
114Roserade-2.333839241.489365%18878
115Dunsparce-2.60152940.331493%18173
116Gardevoir-2.60152940.331493%18173
117Riolu-2.625569340.425533%18876
118Darmanitan-Zen-2.650623839.35484%15561
119Gossifleur-2.764637240.201004%19980
120Misdreavus-2.807281339.896374%19377
 

UT

Roaring 20s, tossing pennies in the pool
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Appeals + C&C Lead
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1339052738

On turn 19, I had a mon with 8 boosts that I tried to switch out to avoid super nova. The opponent switched first, which triggered super nova and KOed both of us, but then my switch still took place. Is that a bug, or should I have been able to choose a new switch then (like when you get knocked out by Pursuit)?
 

HiZo

我が為に苦しめ。我が為に狂い泣け。我が為に死ね。
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Mildly important announcement:

SSB is finalized and deprecated, aka minor bugs will (probably) not get fixed, and no more sets will be buffed/nerfed (unless issues arise from other reasons). We will not be adding anything new so at this point what you see is what you get.

Cheers!
 

HiZo

我が為に苦しめ。我が為に狂い泣け。我が為に死ね。
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Probably the last one for a while! May winrates!

RankPokemonDeviationsWinrateGamesWins
1Slaking3.27215763.057327%15799
2Forretress2.52982360.000004%16096
3Oricorio-Pom-Pom2.495921960.740738%13582
4Nosepass2.36643360.000004%14084
5Latias2.301586459.45946%14888
6Gardevoir1.946657157.894737%15288
7Weedle1.784435957.236843%15287
8Chandelure1.781197257.55396%13980
9Garchomp1.739253656.875004%16091
10Aurorus1.647509657.14286%13376
11Spectrier1.578705356.92308%13074
12Venusaur1.578705356.92308%13074
13Mantine1.510527456.33803%14280
14Gengar1.441921456.11511%13978
15Spinda1.297771155.263157%15284
16Pikachu1.254362855.244755%14379
17Typhlosion1.218543955.303032%13273
18Rhydon1.197130154.77707%15786
19Cinderace1.174853854.929577%14278
20Piloswine1.166666554.86111%14479
21Pichu1.087114954.545456%14378
22Pancham1.044185554.19355%15584
23Mew1.00701754.22535%14277
24Mimikyu1.000000853.846157%16991
25Yveltal0.9863930354.05405%14880
26Ludicolo0.973329553.947372%15282
27Lapras-Gmax0.9011544653.691273%14980
28Unown0.866921553.41615%16186
29Absol0.8006406453.205128%15683
30Gyarados0.7856738653.08642%16286
31Garbodor0.776151253.01205%16688
32Audino0.774597253.333336%13572
33Wingull0.737307753.02013%14979
34Dragapult0.737307753.02013%14979
35Mewtwo0.6910943452.985073%13471
36Litwick0.6761235652.857143%14074
37Shaymin0.6761235652.857143%14074
38Mismagius0.671345352.816902%14275
39TapuFini0.632454652.499996%16084
40Mareanie0.606478552.29885%17491
41Celebi0.585369252.44755%14375
42Minior0.538815652.419353%12465
43Leafeon0.4866638251.973682%15279
44Snorlax0.4447501351.648354%18294
45Beedrill0.443677851.968502%12766
46Pangoro0.4303316251.851852%13570
47Bisharp0.4303316251.851852%13570
48Lampent0.4240935451.798557%13972
49Zygarde0.3990436851.592358%15781
50Munchlax0.3182230651.265823%15881
51Keldeo-Resolute0.268328351.2%12564
52Grimmsnarl0.254456551.079136%13971
53Drampa0.2425366350.980396%15378
54Lucario0.2307690450.887573%16986
55Azelf0.0842153150.35461%14171
56Rayquaza050%13266
57Sneasel050%13266
58Hattrem-0.0803213849.67742%15577
59Dragonite-0.0808452349.673203%15376
60Cosmog-0.08137824449.668877%15175
61Jirachi-0.0854357749.635036%13768
62Honchkrow-0.1601281349.358974%15677
63Lopunny-0.163298749.333336%15074
64Volcanion-0.1666671849.305553%14471
65Shiinotic-0.1678367649.295773%14270
66Mr.Rime-0.2335489849.09091%16581
67Orbeetle-0.2394260249.044586%15777
68Nidoking-0.2409660549.032257%15576
69Jigglypuff-0.3104600648.79518%16681
70Lotad-0.3142691648.765434%16279
71Camerupt-0.3310429548.630135%14671
72Latios-0.350822848.46154%13063
73Aegislash-0.3779642648.214287%11254
74Hoopa-0.40689448.34437%15173
75Charizard-0.4335550748.1203%13364
76Hippowdon-0.522233147.727272%13263
77Uxie-0.522233147.727272%13263
78Carbink-0.5516770547.826088%16177
79Snom-0.581318947.586205%14569
80Dodrio-0.6024644447.407406%13564
81Furret-0.606976447.368423%13363
82Kingdra-0.61721347.61905%16880
83Toxtricity-0.640512547.435898%15674
84Gossifleur-0.6488851347.368423%15272
85Stoutland-0.6761235647.142857%14066
86Lycanroc-0.696310846.969696%13262
87Meloetta-0.700648947.272728%16578
88Naviathan-0.768921946.71533%13764
89Flygon-0.822178246.927376%17984
90Jellicent-0.827605546.575344%14668
91Alcremie-0.836313746.820812%17381
92Roserade-0.8951672346.357616%15170
93Stonjourner-0.9838702745.6%12557
94Xurkitree-1.036642145.52239%13461
95Duraludon-1.057924645.695366%15169
96Misdreavus-1.08711445.454548%14365
97Espeon-1.099943945.679012%16274
98Palpitoad-1.108832245.901638%18384
99Zapdos-1.135815745.038166%13159
100Volcarona-1.135815745.038166%13159
101Polteageist-1.143094745.333336%15068
102Kartana-1.257078545.06173%16273
103Weezing-Galar-1.297771144.736843%15268
104Kirlia-1.297771144.736843%15268
105Runerigus-1.371988244.11765%13660
106Necrozma-Dawn-Wings-1.383440444.37086%15167
107Froslass-1.392621643.939392%13258
108Tauros-1.41177344.13793%14564
109Darmanitan-Zen-1.452408243.79562%13760
110Zekrom-1.463126843.703705%13559
111Aggron-1.516365543.949043%15769
112Reuniclus-1.526116643.870968%15568
113Dunsparce-1.556540743.62416%14965
114Glastrier-1.603567242.857143%12654
115Klefki-1.796292342.666668%15064
116Riolu-1.884233442.28188%14963
117Shedinja-1.923356541.958042%14360
118Phantump-2.592350239.16084%14356
119Archeops-2.599734837.931034%11644
120Quagsire-2.70489539.240505%15862
 
Thread (originally) approved by HoeenHero . OP stolen and updated to ssb4 from Kalalokki .


Cool art by Kaiju Bunny

What is Super Staff Bros?
Super Staff Bros is a seasonal ladder format featuring random teams made up of Pokémon created by the staff members of Pokémon Showdown. But these aren't your standard everyday Pokémon; these Pokémon have custom abilities, moves, and even items that do not exist in standard formats! From dealing massive amounts of damage to the opponent's team on death to even permanently scrambling a Pokemon's moveset, these custom moves, abilities, and items have a wide variety of crazy functions that are sure to keep you on your toes. In addition to their custom attributes, these staffmons are named after the PS staff member they represent and post witty messages on their staff me in battle, and there is no limit to how many Mega Evolutions a side may use. However, Dynamax is still banned because of the massive power creep it places on the metagame despite how much we can try to restrict it. Other than these changes, it's just a normal Pokémon battle; the first trainer to KO their opponent's team wins! How do I learn more about this? There's a super handy article that shows the entire roster available, as well their sets, moves, and everything that is custom made for this metagame! You can also learn about specific staff members by doing /ssb [Staff Member's name] in the Pokemon Showdown server or via the article.

What's this thread for then?
Basically to discuss the metagame in general. We also want to hear from the community about the metagame in general (and if I get around to doing it, a role compendium and/or speed tiers).

[insert mon here] is broken and should be nerfed!!!
Something that QC and I discussed that we will do is mid-release balance patches. If there is an overwhelming, unanimous cry that certain pokemon are too good or suck a lot we will evaluate those mons and potentially nerf/buff them to even the playing field a bit better.
Tough luck. We finished the metagame, so changes to any sets are EXTREMELY unlikely.

Hope you'll have fun playing, as we put a lot of heart and soul into this! :]
can someone do a tierlist of the best pokemons of ssb?
 

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