Sun/Moon Good Cores Discussion Thread

Just had a thought, Bulu might work well with Alolan Ninetales too. Ninetales ability to set dual screens in one turn makes set up sweepers good partners for it and certainly Alolan Sandslash would appreciate having earthquakes weakened. Add in a fire type like Volcarona who can set up behind the screens and appreciates the healing and I think it could be pretty good. The healing counter acts the hail damage though obviously which you might not want.
I swear, everytime I come up with an idea, I see you in a thread posting something similar. I was JUST thinking about how a Grassy Terrain / Hail team actually wouldn't be too bad. With Aurora Veil, Hail is conducive to pretty much any Pokemon, not just ones with relevant weather boosts like the other weathers. Grassy Terrain would cancel out Hail damage on your side. Granted, it will do that for the other team as well. Have to watch out for Ninetales and Bulu's shared weakness to fire though, so you can't run too many ice types. I was thinking about running Alolan Marowak (wow imagine that coming from me, shocker) to be able to fire off Bonemarangs to bypass the EQ nerf in Grassy Terrain and hit Fire-types. It really appreciates the Aurora Veil with it's resistances, but also common weaknesses. I think Beartic might be a better option than Sandslash for a Slush Rush user, especially with the access to Aqua Jet and its buff to 130 Attack. A lot pivots around keeping Ninetales alive though, so you need to consider hazard removal for Stealth Rocks... Which I now realize Alolan Sandslash can do. Ah well, I still think Beartic would be a better choice, there are plenty of other hazard removers you can consider.
 
+



Tapu Bulu @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Leech Seed

So the main idea is to provide Grassy Terrain support while dealing with Gastrodon or Quagsire that can sit in front of Raikou until the terrain goes away and not care about it, setting Leech Seed on an incoming treat to then change to Raikou, it also deal with special walls like Chansey that Raikou struggles with.

Raikou @ Leftovers/ Grass Seed
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 24 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Substitute

The classic CM Raikou, I think Tapu Bulu helps inmensely because under Grassy Terrain its most prominent checks like Scarf Lando-T and Garchomp now get trampled since on the switch you set a CM, take the EQ and then retaliate with HP, Raikou also helps to deal with Flying mons and helps with physical walls, Grassy Terrain also substitutes the necessity of Leftovers and also allows you to get a +1 in defense which lets you set up on mons that would otherwise threaten you.
 
I swear, everytime I come up with an idea, I see you in a thread posting something similar. I was JUST thinking about how a Grassy Terrain / Hail team actually wouldn't be too bad. With Aurora Veil, Hail is conducive to pretty much any Pokemon, not just ones with relevant weather boosts like the other weathers. Grassy Terrain would cancel out Hail damage on your side. Granted, it will do that for the other team as well. Have to watch out for Ninetales and Bulu's shared weakness to fire though, so you can't run too many ice types. I was thinking about running Alolan Marowak (wow imagine that coming from me, shocker) to be able to fire off Bonemarangs to bypass the EQ nerf in Grassy Terrain and hit Fire-types. It really appreciates the Aurora Veil with it's resistances, but also common weaknesses. I think Beartic might be a better option than Sandslash for a Slush Rush user, especially with the access to Aqua Jet and its buff to 130 Attack. A lot pivots around keeping Ninetales alive though, so you need to consider hazard removal for Stealth Rocks... Which I now realize Alolan Sandslash can do. Ah well, I still think Beartic would be a better choice, there are plenty of other hazard removers you can consider.
Yea you could but Marowak too, you definitely want some kind of Fire type though and idk who's better between Beartic and Sandslash, slash obviously has some bad weaknesses but he actually has more resistances than your average ice type as well and better offensive STABS than Beartic who just has ice.

Edit: Just as a side note I'm sad I can't really think of anything interesting for sun. Torkoal is cool and all but other than that it feels like sun got nothing new and it's just gonna be Torkoal + Mega Zard Y + Venusuar, team can probably use Bulu as well, but it's just not very exciting. Are there any new mons that would really significantly benefit from sun? I guess maybe you could run Lycanroc midday, fire types would like a fast rock type with rock priority.
 
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Trinitrotoluene

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hyper offense core: pheromosa + tapu lele (a.k.a.: waifu-tier offense)


pheromosa @ life orb | beast boost
naïve | 252 atk / 4 spa / 252 spe
• high jump kick
• poison jab
• ice beam
• u-turn



tapu lele @ terrain extender / life orb | psychic surge
modest | 4 def / 252 spa / 252 spe
ivs: 0 atk
• psychic
• moonblast
• focus blast
• aromatherapy / calm mind


pheromosa is a rather independent attacker, so the teammates you'd run alongside it on hyper offense are dependent on whatever pheromosa is not be able to immediately deal with. regardless of the coverage move chosen, pheromosa will desperately struggle against toxapex, aegislash, genger, mega venusaur, and mega sableye. more niche answers include defensive gyarados, jellicent, and chandelure. enter tapu lele: its stab moves alone ruin toxapex, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, three of what likely will be the most common answers to pheromosa on balanced and bulkier teams. even without a boosting item, tapu lele threatens ohkos on all of these threats with a bit of prior damage, which u-turn from pheromosa conveniently provides. to reciprocate this kind of support, tapu lele provides pheromosa with a neat immunity to priority through psychic surge + terrain extender, making it even harder to revenge kill in the late game.

let's talk moves for a bit. psychic is used over psyshock to deliver a stronger hit and a guaranteed ohko against the common defensive mega venusaur. aromatherapy gives tapu lele and its teammates more freedom to act in the face of status moves by negating any status on its team all in one turn. calm mind and / or life orb are viable options for tapu lele if you don't think it hits hard enough, but you lose out on the utility of free status removal and extended priority immunity. as for pheromosa itself, you can give it leftovers over life orb if you want to spam u-turn more, albeit at the cost of a noticeable power loss.

aegislash and gengar ruin pheromosa and tapu lele, so getting teammates that can stand up to these threats and provide / maintain offensive momentum is key. darkrai (assuming it'll be allowed into sun / moon ou to begin with), mega mawile, and aegislash itself, funnily enough, function as great teammates due to their ability to checkmate these aforementioned problematic mons. other problematic mons include fat psychics with reliable recovery that can stomach a u-turn, bulky mons that pheromosa cannot 2hko with a combination of coverage move + high jump kick, and mons who get speed boosts from weather (assuming pheromosa has no speed boosts). mons that can handle these threats while maintaining the fevered tempo of a hyper offense team are the best teammates to pair up with this core.

edit: you can expect to see this core quite a bit from me.
 
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hyper offense core: pheromosa + tapu lele (a.k.a.: waifu-tier offense)


pheromosa @ life orb | beast boost
naïve | 252 atk / 4 spa / 252 spe
• high jump kick
• poison jab
• ice beam
• u-turn



tapu lele @ terrain extender / life orb | psychic surge
modest | 4 def / 252 spa / 252 spe
ivs: 0 atk
• psychic
• moonblast
• focus blast
• aromatherapy / calm mind


pheromosa is a rather independent attacker, so the teammates you'd run alongside it on hyper offense are dependent on whatever pheromosa is not be able to immediately deal with. regardless of the coverage move chosen, pheromosa will desperately struggle against toxapex, aegislash, genger, mega venusaur, and mega sableye. more niche answers include defensive gyarados, jellicent, and chandelure. enter tapu lele: its stab moves alone ruin toxapex, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, three of what likely will be the most common answers to pheromosa on balanced and bulkier teams. even without a boosting item, tapu lele threatens ohkos on all of these threats with a bit of prior damage, which u-turn from pheromosa conveniently provides. to reciprocate this kind of support, tapu lele provides pheromosa with a neat immunity to priority through psychic surge + terrain extender, making it even harder to revenge kill in the late game.

let's talk moves for a bit. psychic is used over psyshock to deliver a stronger hit and a guaranteed ohko against the common defensive mega venusaur. aromatherapy gives tapu lele and its teammates more freedom to act in the face of status moves by negating any status on its team all in one turn. calm mind and / or life orb are viable options for tapu lele if you don't think it hits hard enough, but you lose out on the utility of free status removal and extended priority immunity. as for pheromosa itself, you can give it leftovers over life orb if you want to spam u-turn more, albeit at the cost of a noticeable power loss.

aegislash and gengar ruin pheromosa and tapu lele, so getting teammates that can stand up to these threats and provide / maintain offensive momentum is key. darkrai (assuming it'll be allowed into sun / moon ou to begin with) and aegislash itself, funnily enough, function as great teammates due to their ability to checkmate these aforementioned problematic mons. other problematic mons include fat psychics with reliable recovery that can stomach a u-turn, bulky steels that pheromosa cannot 2hko with a combination of coverage move + high jump kick, and mons who get speed boosts from weather (assuming pheromosa has no speed boosts). mons that can handle these threats while maintaining the fevered tempo of a hyper offense team are the best teammates to pair up with this core.
Just as a question, would Nature's Madness or Shadow Ball be considered as contenders in the last slot? Why/why not?
 

Trinitrotoluene

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Valiant Scizor i didn't consider shadow ball in the last slot because it doesn't hit anything that the other moves would besides aegislash, which isn't 2hkoed in shield forme (assuming 252 hp evs and no life orb) by 252+ tapu lele and threatens an ohko in response with its own shadow ball. besides, aromatherapy and calm mind do more for tapu lele's team and tapu lele itself, respectively.

regarding nature's madness, it is another option that you could run, but it runs into competition against aromatherapy and calm mind for that last moveslot.
 

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower
- Megahorn

+

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]


This core together is extremely scary. LO Tapu Bulu with coverage - although not carrying the raw power of the band set, is still ridiculously strong - and has the obvious benefit of switching its moves. The coverage allows it to comfortably take on threats like Trangrowth, Amoongus, Mega-Venusaur (on switch in), Heatran, Ferrothorn and others, whilst wood hammer still serves its wall-breaking function. The two main defensive pokemon that this Bulu set can't reliably take on are skarmory and scizor, both of which are comfortable taken on by Magnezone. This core completely demolishes common defensive backbones and will be one to watch as S&M stabilises from its HO nature.​
 
Here's what I believe may be an effective Offensive Core.


Ribombee @ Life Orb
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Quiver Dance

Gallade @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt


I've decided to build around Mega Gallade due to it greatly benefitting from a multitude of the changes this Generation brings, particularly the Talonflame nerfs and the changes to Turn Order upon Mega Evolving.

Ribombee is a fantastic partner for Mega Gallade thanks to it's unique typing allowing it to murder Gallade's biggest counters in Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro with just it's STABs. Ribombee is also able to handle both fat and fast Psychic types such as Cresselia and Mew, or Latios, Starmie and Alakazam, which are often capable of giving Mega Gallade a lot of trouble.
In return, Gallade is capable of taking on a lot of Rock types which helps Ribombee a great number. But most importantly, Mega Gallade can use it's Fighting and Psychic STABs to murder Steel and Poison types respectively, who are capable of walling Ribombee completely.

Both mons have fantastic merits against all opposing play styles, making them a solid core to build around. Mega Gallade's well rounded stats and benchmark speed allow it to take on a lot of offensive threats, while the combination of Swords Dance and Drain punch give it sweet power and durability against Balance and Stall builds. Ribombee's epic speed makes it terrific against offensive mons, and if it is able to get a Quiver Dance up against them it can be ridiculously threatening. Roost and Quiver Dance's SpD boost allows it to set up in front of a multitude of stall and defensive mons, especially with Shield Dust protecting it from annoying Scald Burns or Moonblast drops.
The combination of two fast boosting sweepers that cover each other's weaknesses from opposite ends of the offensive spectrum, each with at least semi reliable recovery, is extremely hard to deal with. Putting immense pressure on opposing defensive cores and mons such as Clefable, who is unable to handle both of these threats at once. Either is able to sweep or clean up teams should the other be successful in taking out its checks and counters.

Like any 2 mon offensive core though, this one isn't without a lot of holes. First of all, both are very weak to priority, particularly that coming from Mega Pinsir and Talonflame (if Talonflame is still common). Mega fast pokemon and fast scarfers are also problematic if Ribombee hasn't got a Quiver Dance up. Paralysis too severely cripples both mons, especially priority T-Wave.
Sand Rush Excadrill could be a very strong partner for the core, resisting Flying and offensively checking Talon and Pinsir, out speeding mons like Mega Alakazam and fast Scarfers, all whilst boasting an immunity to Paralysis. Other good team mates would include slow pivots capable of bringing in Ribombee and Mega Gallade safely for easy set up opportunities, hazard stackers, and a strong Skarmory killer.
 
Sylvally
Tapu Bulu
Tapu Koko


I'm still not sure what set/sylvally variants i want, but the idea is super simple, Sylvally can beat whatever you want through customization, and use Parting Shot, now what is a better (ab)user of U turn that comes free with Intimidate than 2 extremely powerful attacker?
Tapu Bulu would break down everything except for Skarmory and Celesteela or Scizor that Tapu Koko would cover. That being said Scizor, Amoongus, and Gengar are some consideration of what kind of Silvally build you want. Koko and Bulu would reset each other terrain so they can make sure they come in on tip top shape, and for what it worth Bulu would provide some recovery for Silvally as well
 
As far as I'm aware, Trap-Passing hasn't been a thing for the past couple generations. It's still good for preventing switches though.
Sylvally
Tapu Bulu
Tapu Koko


I'm still not sure what set/sylvally variants i want, but the idea is super simple, Sylvally can beat whatever you want through customization, and use Parting Shot, now what is a better (ab)user of U turn that comes free with Intimidate than 2 extremely powerful attacker?
Tapu Bulu would break down everything except for Skarmory and Celesteela or Scizor that Tapu Koko would cover. That being said Scizor, Amoongus, and Gengar are some consideration of what kind of Silvally build you want. Koko and Bulu would reset each other terrain so they can make sure they come in on tip top shape, and for what it worth Bulu would provide some recovery for Silvally as well
Having two Tapus seems to take away from what makes each of them valuable. It would be like running half a rain team and half a sand team, or something to that effect. It could be done, yeah, but I feel it might be trying to spread the team too thin.
 

Aberforth

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Ubers Leader

Scolipede (F) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 236 HP / 228 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Attract

Xurkitree @ Air Ballon/Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 spA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Tail Glow

Hi my name is broken, nice to meet you. This is a cancerous strategy involving Baton Pass, yet again, but this time it's passing into something much stronger than a Manaphy, and with the 3 move coverage it has, the only thing that walls it is Chansey. Although, if you chose to risk getting OHKO'd by an Earthquake...

+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 415-489 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This ultrabeast is bonkers, and if you can get to +2 speed, you outspeed anything up to base 111 with a choice scarf. With +3, you can also outspeed things like Excadrill in Sand. What makes this even better is that priority is going to be a lot rarer in gen6, and even the hard hitting priority, like Breloom's Mach Punch and Bisharp's Sucker Punch dont come close to OHKOing, even after Rocks.
 
Having two Tapus seems to take away from what makes each of them valuable. It would be like running half a rain team and half a sand team, or something to that effect. It could be done, yeah, but I feel it might be trying to spread the team too thin.
Whats wrong with that again?

Tyranitar was one of the best pokemon in a Rain team because Keldeo loves Tyranitar

Even in Gen 6, Charizard Y is usually run with Tyranitar, because of their synergy and the latter ability to reset weather so that whenever Zard Y comes in it can get full 5 turn


What makes Tapu valuable if not for the fact they are super good? Tapu Koko is literally Mewtwo, and Tapu Bulu is the most powerful Wall Breaker. I'd rather support those monsters than trying to make them as glorified Terrain setter
 
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Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor

Scolipede (F) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 236 HP / 228 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Attract

Xurkitree @ Air Ballon/Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 spA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Tail Glow

Hi my name is broken, nice to meet you. This is a cancerous strategy involving Baton Pass, yet again, but this time it's passing into something much stronger than a Manaphy, and with the 3 move coverage it has, the only thing that walls it is Chansey. Although, if you chose to risk getting OHKO'd by an Earthquake...

+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 415-489 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This ultrabeast is bonkers, and if you can get to +2 speed, you outspeed anything up to base 111 with a choice scarf. With +3, you can also outspeed things like Excadrill in Sand. What makes this even better is that priority is going to be a lot rarer in gen6, and even the hard hitting priority, like Breloom's Mach Punch and Bisharp's Sucker Punch dont come close to OHKOing, even after Rocks.
I would even consider having Tapu Koko as a third mon in this core since not only lyrics does it allow Xurk to hit even harder with its lone Stab, but it also makes it so that sleep isnt a way that'll stop Scoli setting up or Xurk sweeping. There is a bit of a EQ weakness by adding Koko but it also gives this core a way to deal with any dragons like ScarfChomp (I've got a weird feeling there might be a resurgence ) or fat Fighting types.

And you don't need to have IVs like that anymore due to new mechanics
 
hyper offense core: pheromosa + tapu lele (a.k.a.: waifu-tier offense)


pheromosa @ life orb | beast boost
naïve | 252 atk / 4 spa / 252 spe
• high jump kick
• poison jab
• ice beam
• u-turn



tapu lele @ terrain extender / life orb | psychic surge
modest | 4 def / 252 spa / 252 spe
ivs: 0 atk
• psychic
• moonblast
• focus blast
• aromatherapy / calm mind


pheromosa is a rather independent attacker, so the teammates you'd run alongside it on hyper offense are dependent on whatever pheromosa is not be able to immediately deal with. regardless of the coverage move chosen, pheromosa will desperately struggle against toxapex, aegislash, genger, mega venusaur, and mega sableye. more niche answers include defensive gyarados, jellicent, and chandelure. enter tapu lele: its stab moves alone ruin toxapex, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, three of what likely will be the most common answers to pheromosa on balanced and bulkier teams. even without a boosting item, tapu lele threatens ohkos on all of these threats with a bit of prior damage, which u-turn from pheromosa conveniently provides. to reciprocate this kind of support, tapu lele provides pheromosa with a neat immunity to priority through psychic surge + terrain extender, making it even harder to revenge kill in the late game.

let's talk moves for a bit. psychic is used over psyshock to deliver a stronger hit and a guaranteed ohko against the common defensive mega venusaur. aromatherapy gives tapu lele and its teammates more freedom to act in the face of status moves by negating any status on its team all in one turn. calm mind and / or life orb are viable options for tapu lele if you don't think it hits hard enough, but you lose out on the utility of free status removal and extended priority immunity. as for pheromosa itself, you can give it leftovers over life orb if you want to spam u-turn more, albeit at the cost of a noticeable power loss.

aegislash and gengar ruin pheromosa and tapu lele, so getting teammates that can stand up to these threats and provide / maintain offensive momentum is key. darkrai (assuming it'll be allowed into sun / moon ou to begin with), mega mawile, and aegislash itself, funnily enough, function as great teammates due to their ability to checkmate these aforementioned problematic mons. other problematic mons include fat psychics with reliable recovery that can stomach a u-turn, bulky mons that pheromosa cannot 2hko with a combination of coverage move + high jump kick, and mons who get speed boosts from weather (assuming pheromosa has no speed boosts). mons that can handle these threats while maintaining the fevered tempo of a hyper offense team are the best teammates to pair up with this core.

edit: you can expect to see this core quite a bit from me.
[Tapu Lele + obscenely frail fast attacker] seems to be the default HO core going into the new meta; so much to the point that we've decided to slash any combo involving Tapu Lele into the offensive category rather than the terrain category. We've seen LeleZam, LeleMosa, might as well throw LeleOxys-A for Ubers play.

It's incredible how much viability this thing gives to frail attackers hat typically forgo boosting in favor of LO/Band/Specs, and while I'm not fond of doomsday predictions, something this splashable on HO without being a suicide lead is definitely going to be looked at closer in the future.




Sableye @ Sablenite | Magic Bounce
Careful | 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
• Toxic
• Fake Out
• Recover
• Knock Off/Foul Play

Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet | Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
• Toxic Spikes
• Scald
• Recover
• Haze/Baneful Bunker

I think we're looking to a meta similar to that of early BW's weather wars, meaning that spinblockers will be key to punishing your opponent's attempts to keep Lele/Bulu/Koko alive through constant switching. Given that a number of the most viable threats this coming meta are physical; ZardX, M-Metagross, Bulu, M-Gallade, I think a Sableye-M-Toxapex core would be a great deterrent to all the Lele-based offensive units sure to be flying around.

Toxapex fears nothing from Fairy and Scrappy Fighting moves. Sableye-M is frustratingly immune to Psychic and bounces back Taunts, Spores, and T-Waves critical to shutting down Toxapex. Toxapex notably beats Lopunny-M and Azumarill without needing to a burn chance from Scald. This core seems to struggle with offensive Jirachi, who shrugs off Baneful Bunker and can flinch away with supereffective Heart Stamps and Zen Headbutts.
 
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So, not necessarilly a core but vgc wise:
Mantine, Tapu Bulu, Decidueye, A-Sandslash, Passimian, Mudsdale


Mantine has received a great buff with roost and +20 bst hp and its types resist both fighting and fire, wich A-sandslash doesnt really dig. Decidueye and Bulu also enjoy having an ally with fire resistance and ice neutrality. Mudsdale will thank you for mantine's ability to come in on an ice attack and water immunity.

Tapu Bulu can take resisted fighting hits for A-sandy, electric ones for Mantine and Blocking the ever annoying Dragon moves, all while setting up grassy terrain to nerf earthquakes damage and cancel any weather damage the team could receive.

Decidueye can block unwanted normal and fighting moves and resist electric shots for Mantine while having the incredible utility Spirit Shackles offer along with quite a good support movepool.

A-Sandy has decent offensive typing with Ice and Steel while having quite a few good resistances. It can come in and laugh at ice (for bulu, decidueye and mudsdale), flying (Passimian), and dragon moves for it's team.

Passimian is a trump support brawler with an incredible ability that can come in and reset weather instead of bulu once it dies or acquire slush rush and outspeed most things. It can take some hits on its own with a little investment and can be a damn tank with mudsdale's ability. The one thing it lacks other than more coverage is entrainment (Gf, please i beg of you) but we can wait. Meanwhile it does get QuickGuard, Scary face, Beat Up (it is a pretty heavy hitting team to be fair. That plus beating up mudsdale with chesto resto equals awesome (if you get the chance, of course)), Rain Dance (swift swim mantine receiving), Smack Down, Acrobatics, Iron Head and Close Combat, Low Sweep, feint, all great moves for a support bruiser. He does have so many options its hard to chose.

Mudsdale brings an electric immunity to the table, along with a solid ability to check fake outs and physicall hits.

Something like

Mantine:
Water Absorb/Swift Swim
Leftovers, Sitrus, Lum

Scald
Roost
Wide Guard
Hail


Scald is quite obvious
Roost Because that's what it has allways wanted and I don't see it parting with it anytime soon now that it got it.
Wide guard for the obvious spread moves.
Hail to set up for sandslash if needed without having a setter with shared weaknesses with A-sandy (looking at you A-Ninetales).

Tapu Bulu:
Sitrus/grassy Seed/Leftovers/whatever your heart tells you to

Horn Leech
Protect
Nature's Madness
Bulk Up/Rototiler


Horn leech is for improved sustain and a nice boosted stab on grassy terrain.
Protect because VGC
Nature's Madness because this team has no Special Attacker and we need to break Sponges somehow, this should help.
Bulk Up for selfishingly buffing or Rototiler to buff Decidueye's Spirit Poke as well.

Decidueye:
Carefull/Sassy 252 hp, 120 def, 130 sp def, 4 speed(or whatever you want, honestly still gotta test this thing to tune it better)
Ghost Z-stone/Leftovers/grassy seed

Spirit Shackles
Roost
Curse
Protect/Low Sweep/feather Dance/Leaf Blade


Spirit Shackles Because thats what decidueye is all about.
Roost for recovering from enemies and curse damage more than just by items or grassy terrain.
Curse for the oportunities you get to curse someone that is shackled and still survive to roost away. (Probably those sponges we were talking earlier)
Z-curse for recovering full hp and assuring at least one shackled cursed mon in the game.
Protect because VGC [2] (if running leftovers, bonus heal), Low sweep for coverage, leaf blade for alternative stab with grassy terrain boost (but really, with bulu on the team thats all the grass you need). feather dance to debuff the enemies attack if you feel you actually need more staying power.

A-Sandy:

Icicle Spear
Iron head
Protect
Aurora Veil/safeguard/coverage move.


Aurora Veil for the same effect of double screens comming of a fast mon (Slush boost). Safeguard to avoid those unwelcome statuses, but mostly for burns. Coverage if you feel you need it.

Passimian:
if guts - Adrenalin Orb
Else - grassy seed/sitrus/lum/z-stone

Close Combat
Protect/Quick Guard
feint/rain dance/Beat up
Iron Head/Smack Down


Close Combat - because damage!
Quick Guard - its a slow meta, priority will still be a thing, even with all the nerfs. A-Sandy thanks you for no mach punchs
feint to avoid those pesky protects that would make spirit shackles fail and ruin decidueye's day. Z-boosted Rain dance for a speed boost and receiving Mantines swift swim or simply to counter weather. Beat up for gimmick setup of mudsdale and have a 1 turn +6 defense.
Iron Head - Because fairies are annoying and we don't get to play with poison jab =/. Smack Down for flying types with the added bonus that mudsdale can hit them with its stab after that.

Mudsdale:
Stamina
Chesto Berry

High HorsePower
Heavy Slam
Protect
Rest

High Horsepower
to avoid self counter with grassy terrain.
Heavy Slam to get some awesome base power neutral damage since this horse is heavy as hell.
Rest to recover after receiving some physical damage and setuping a little.

I know it's an entire team but one can take what it does not want out and put in something that pleases one more. The thing is, I've not yet thought of anything (other than the obvious lack of special power) that would screw this team up entirelly.
It does well on trick room, it is tanky enough to handle being outsped, has more than one switch in option for each weakness that I could think off and does have a fairlly good damage output, considering it does have 2 mons that do not care about intimidate for damage (decidueye with curse and bulu with nature's madness), one special attacker (not invested thou) in mantine and one potencial guts user in passimian.

I am sure that I forgot to consider something (probably something obvious) so, any thoughts?
 

Martin

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Core dump

Weather Core

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- U-turn
- Defog / Toxic

Kingdra @ Normallum Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Splash
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Hydro Pump
This is a very potent core that puts Pelipper's slow U-turn and the power of Z-Splash to good use. If you can eliminate Ferrothorn and any other Kingdra stops this will be a very potent core in-deed. Bring Kingdra in on a slow U-turn or sac Pelly off to get up rain and then proceed to use Splash and wreak house. Hydro allows you to hit phys walls if you're not ready to burn your Splash yet, and beyond that it's p. self-explanatory.

Offensive Core

Kingdra @ Normallum Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Splash
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Hydro Pump

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

==============

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Hidden Power Electric
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
The key thing that Ludicolo offers here is access to Focus Blast, allowing it to bait Ferrothorn in to take massive damage--KOing with the combo of Hydro-->Focus Blast:

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 152 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 116-136 (32.9 - 38.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 152 SpD Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In addition to this, the lack of Talonflame to do rain's head in is absolutely huge for Ludicolo's viability, and in games where a Splash sweep isn't a priority/if paired with SpecsDra it is also able to eliminate stuff like Gastrodon that give it a massive headache (can only KO with Draco, which forces a SpA drop; has to catch it on the switch) as well as being a better bet against smth like SpD Jellicent--both of which may climb in usage if there ends up being a re-emergence of rain.

Weather Core

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- U-turn
- Defog / Toxic

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest
At a glance this may seem redundant, but on particularly aggressive rain builds (Suicide lead+Kingdra+Poli+3 Swift Swimmers or something of a similar build) this is a perfectly valid option because it allows you to sac one to bring something in for free without losing your only method of setting rain. Given the generally short durations of games using these types of teams, the utility of this is extremely good. Politoed runs enough speed to beat out Azu and lock it into Belly Drum.

Weather Core

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- U-turn
- Defog

Moltres @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Electric
- U-turn
This is more showing off Moltres+rain rather than anything else. Moltres is a very powerful 'mon in general for rain as it provides it with a way of nailing Ferrothorn while also benefitting from the accuracy boost that Hurricane gets from the rain, makingit a very potent rain wallbreaker.

Weather Core

Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Rapid Spin
- Lava Plume
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Rest

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Mega Diancie+sun is a very scary combination, given that it is able to discourage the use of Stealth Rock, and with sun gaining a new Rapid Spin user it is better than ever. Will sun be dominant with Torkoal? I doubt it, but it's sure-as-hell gotten better.

Weather Core

Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Rapid Spin
- Lava Plume
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Rest

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 27 HP
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Screech
- Memento
Dugtrio eliminates Tyranitar and lets you win weather wars. It also eliminates Heatran who gives sun a headache. It also eliminates Chansey who cockblocks Venusaur. It also benefits from the Spin support provided by Torkoal. This is fun.

Defenive Core

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Scald
- Air Slash

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
This core shuts down rain completely. Between Mantine shutting down Kingdra's STABs, Ludicolo in general and non-Stone Edge Mega Swampert and Gastrodon shutting down Kabutops, Kingdra's rain-boosted STAB and MSwampert to a lesser extent (if it's not taken much prior damage it spams Recover and slowly heals before Cursing at some point), there isn't really much an all-out Swift Swim team rain can do to break this combination short of random HP Electrics to bait out Mantine (which honestly I expect to be a very common choice of coverage just in general in the SM to beat the fat manta ray) with raw Swift Swim spam. Beyond this, the two have good defensive synergy with one-another; Gastrodon shuts down non-Grass Knot Electric-types for Mantine, whereas Mantine shuts down most Grass-types (barring Tapu Bulu) in exchange. Flying/Ground is just generally good defensively, and with added Water-types onto each it can be pretty difficult to break through.

Defensive Core


Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Toxic
- Scald
- Air Slash

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
Mantine shuts down Fire-types for Ferrothorn, Ferrothorn shuts down Rocks and non-Focus Blast Electrics for Mantine. Add Heatran for some extra zest.

Defensive Core

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Toxic
- Scald
- Air Slash / Toxic

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Flamethrower / Hurricane
Moltres benefits heavily from Mantine's Defog support and also benefits from Mantine hard countering most Water-types. Mantine likes having Tapu Bulu countered for it. Mantine appreciates having opposing Mantine baited out and put on a timer by Toxic. All in all, nice core.
 
+
+


Tapu Fini@Leftovers / Terrain Extender
Bold; 252 HP / 244 Def / 8 Spe
Misty Terrain

Surf
Defog
Ice Beam
Moonblast

Volcarona@Passho Berry
Timid; 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Flame Body

Bug Buzz
Fire Blast
Giga Drain
Quiver Dance

Landorus-T@Leftovers
Impish; 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 Spe
Intimidate

U-turn
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Stealth Rock

The idea behind these three is to support a Volcarona sweep using Misty Terrain's protective effects against status and SR support from Landorus-T. Tapu Fini also provides defog support and coverage against certain Dragon-types that would otherwise wall Volcarona such as Dragonite. Landorus-T provides Intimidate support and rocks as well as a slow U-turn. Passho Berry is chosen over Lum for Volcarona due to Misty Terrain and because I don't foresee Talonflame being too much of an issue these days.
 
Edit: Just as a side note I'm sad I can't really think of anything interesting for sun. Torkoal is cool and all but other than that it feels like sun got nothing new and it's just gonna be Torkoal + Mega Zard Y + Venusuar, team can probably use Bulu as well, but it's just not very exciting. Are there any new mons that would really significantly benefit from sun? I guess maybe you could run Lycanroc midday, fire types would like a fast rock type with rock priority.
A-Exeggutor gets Harvest, Synthesis, Flamethrower, no fire weakness like his Kanto counterpart, some utility like Sleep Powder, Swords Dance, etc.

Minior gets Solarbeam allowing for an interesting sun sweeper.
 
A-Exeggutor gets Harvest, Synthesis, Flamethrower, no fire weakness like his Kanto counterpart, some utility like Sleep Powder, Swords Dance, etc.
Technically it 'has' a Fire-weakness, albeit somewhat minor since it's neutral to Fire, and with the sun boost...

Still better than regular Exeggutor, of course.
 

Ninetales-A @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry



Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs:248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Ground

Tapu Fini @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Defog
- Moonblast
- Blizzard


Alolan Ninetales not only gets five turns of hail, it also has Aurora Veil. It's probably the best new move of the generation, giving five turns of dual screens, and Ninetales-A is likely the best user of it. While Hail may be overall the weakest weather, it still takes away the weather of opposing teams, which is great. Light Clay extends the five turns to eight. Blizzard and Moonblast are potent STAB and Freeze Dry hits Water types super effectively. It's important to note that Freeze Dry can OHKO Pellipper. Ninetales-A is absolutely helpless against Steel types; Volcarona can roast Steel types with Fire Blast and with Aurora Veil up it can potentially be a terrifying sweeper with Quiver Dance. Tapu Fini is a very solid Defogger and can also easily dispose of Heatran and Ground types with Surf, Grass types with Blizzard and Dragon types with Moonblast. Furthermore, Misty Terrain protects the team from status; coupled with Aurora Veil, that's pretty awesome. A Bold nature with max HP lets it switch into physical attacks and remove hazards multiple times. Overall, this core abuses the amazing Aurora Veil and while Hail may not be the strongest weather, it's at least very fun to use and does have the potential to at least be somewhat viable in OU.
Edit: originally had Beartic in the core but as Bugsy pointed out, he's worthless when Hail is gone and may not fit in OU; he certainly has a chance, though.
 
Last edited:
View attachment 73602
Ninetales-A @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry

View attachment 73603

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs:248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Ground

View attachment 73604

Beartic @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

View attachment 73607
Tapu Fini @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Defog
- Moonblast
- Blizzard


Alolan Ninetales not only gets five turns of hail, it also has Aurora Veil. It's probably the best new move of the generation, giving five turns of dual screens, and Ninetales-A is likely the best user of it. While Hail may be overall the weakest weather, it still takes away the weather of opposing teams, which is great. Light Clay extends the five turns to eight. Blizzard and Moonblast are potent STAB and Freeze Dry hits Water types super effectively. It's important to note that Freeze Dry can OHKO Pellipper. Ninetales-A is absolutely helpless against Steel types; Volcarona can roast Steel types with Fire Blast and with Aurora Veil up it can potentially be a terrifying sweeper with Quiver Dance. Beartic also greatly appreciates Aurora Veil and can abuse the hail Ninetales-A puts up. With its base Attack now being 130, Beartic will probably be seen as a great sweeper in UU at least, and maybe even OU. All three of these Pokemon are very weak to Stealth Rock. Tapu Fini is a very solid Defogger and can also easily dispose of Heatran and Ground types with Surf, Grass types with Blizzard and Dragon types with Moonblast. Furthermore, Misty Terrain protects the team from status; coupled with Aurora Veil, that's pretty awesome. A Bold nature with max HP lets it switch into physical attacks and remove hazards multiple times. Overall, this core abuses the amazing Aurora Veil and while Hail may not be the strongest weather, it's at least very fun to use and does have the potential to at least be somewhat viable in OU.
Tales/Fini/Volc is certainly good but I'm not sold on Beartic. He's pretty useless if hail isn't up but maybe he's worth it, maybe it's even worthwhile to put another hail setter on the team for him.
 
Tales/Fini/Volc is certainly good but I'm not sold on Beartic. He's pretty useless if hail isn't up but maybe he's worth it, maybe it's even worthwhile to put another hail setter on the team for him.
Yeah, while I am certain on Nintetales A + Volc + Tapu Fini, Beartic is the wild card. I think I'm going to edit him out.
Edited Beartic out of the core
 
Yeah, while I am certain on Nintetales A + Volc + Tapu Fini, Beartic is the wild card. I think I'm going to edit him out.
Edited Beartic out of the core
Well it might not be a terrible idea. A user in another thread pointed out how Mantine could be a good hail setter and partner to Alolan Sandslash. He was talking about VGC doubles but still I think there might be some place for him in a singles team perhaps.

I think that's the issue though if you want to run a slush rusher you need to find a second hail setter.
 
Whats wrong with that again?

Tyranitar was one of the best pokemon in a Rain team because Keldeo loves Tyranitar

Even in Gen 6, Charizard Y is usually run with Tyranitar, because of their synergy and the latter ability to reset weather so that whenever Zard Y comes in it can get full 5 turn


What makes Tapu valuable if not for the fact they are super good? Tapu Koko is literally Mewtwo, and Tapu Bulu is the most powerful Wall Breaker. I'd rather support those monsters than trying to make them as glorified Terrain setter
Look at me not knowing about weather since I'm bad never use it. Although I am feeling that new Sand Stream Gigalith...
It is prudent to look at what makes Tapus really unique; their terrain setting abilities, and everything else is just gravy. It would be underselling their usefulness to say that's all they're good for, but the main reason they'll be picked up is for the benefits that Grassy, or Electric, or Psychic Terrain provide to teams overall. Much of Tapu Bulu's and Tapu Koko's offensive power comes from the 1.5 extra damage those terrains provide, too. But... looking at them more, the more I see how well the two Tapus work together.
 

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