Gen 3 stall team

[snookajam]

Few ppl look through this section of the forums now, but i'll post a team anyways

Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 202 Def / 56 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Surf

basic spike spinner, i don't use this much during battles, it appears in less than 5% of the time...
usually i use it to kill last pokemon salamences

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spd / 24 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Protect
- Roar
- Surf
- Wish

wishpasser + phazer

Dusclops (M) @ Leftovers ** ANNOYED YET?
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 166 Def / 92 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Night Shade
- Pain Split
- Protect
- Toxic

spin blocker, annoyer, toxic inflictor

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Spd / 140 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Heal Bell
- Perish Song
- Psychic
- Recover

perish song for last pokemon curselaxes, or last pokemon in general. cleric

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 36 Spd / 72 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Light Screen
- Protect
- Wish

wishpasser, psuedo passer, paralyzes stuff with body slam, annoyer

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Roar
- Spikes
- Toxic

another spiker, yes

4 physical walls - cloyster, vaporeon, jirachi, skarm
2 special walls - celebi/dusclops
2 wishers - vaporeon, jirachi
3 pokemon with protect - for extra toxic damage or pressure effect
2 toxicing pokemon - for extra annoying power
1 heal beller
1 spinner
2 spikers

Basically the goal is to set up 3 layers of spikes using cloyster/skarm, and then start phazing with vaporeon and skarm's roar, and celebi's perish song.
toxic random stuff with skarm and dusclops. if dusclops, i protect for poison damage, then switch to either vaporeon or jirachi to take the hit, then protect again, by then the enemy is dead, so i either wish/protect again or kill it. VERY effective and VERY annoying.
perish song celebi is also a bitch. perish song the enemy, then recover once. then switch to either vaporeon or skarm or whatever as the enemy's perish count falls to 1, then they'll be forced to switch. thats where i roar again for double spikes damage.
i have at least a 95+% win record with this team, and it usually makes the opponent forfeit before i even win, because it annoys the hell out of them. its extremely difficult to kill due to 2 wishers and a crap load of defences
will post more about this team next time, gtg now. any comments?

 

[Mastadi]

Metagross = GG

 

[sbc]

Basically Magneton ruins your whole strategy, its good to have a back up offense

 

[West]

Massive Mixlax weak. Also Charizard and Blaziken too.

 

[green_flash]

Metagross = GG

I don't think so with BOTH Vaporeon AND Skarmory, and either Celebi unless it is CBanded. o_O

Massive Mixlax weak. Also Charizard and Blaziken too.

Vaporeon stops them, Dusclops stops Charizard, Blaziken and Thick Fat Mixlax, Celebi stop Mixlax, Light Screen Jirachi stops Earthquakeless Mixlax. The great weakness of this team is that it is sweeperless, and I really dislike mere stalling strategy, because at a certain point somebody with a CBTeam or skilled players with decent offensive teams (especially with Maggy/MaggyDuggy Support) will sweep your whole team, and a stall oriented team like your will be an hell to take down. :\

 

[rtc3]

Gar weak? ionno lol. SubBPzappy + Tar can pose problems.

Anyway the team doesn't have anyone who is capable of dishing out damage. Also, as g_f said, a team with decent offense can take you down.

 

[snookajam]

vs mixlax, skarm can survive 2-3 fire blasts. lets say i spike him once, and he fire blasts me. i then switch to jirachi/dusclops and then set up light screen to reduce fire blast damage. wish + protect back health, then pass wish back to skarm, which then takes little damage due to light screen. if i switch to dusclops, i take about 20+% from a fireblast, wasting 2 of his pp. then i protect to check for shadowball/recover health. if he shadow balls, i switch to skarm to take the hit, then return to dusclops to eat the fire blast for minimum damage. by now his fire blast pp will be only about 2-3, so snorlaxes are handled easily. celebi also takes fire blasts easily, and can then recover back the health and chasing him away with perish song.

dusclops rapes gengars by stalling with protect + painsplit and breaking his subs/chasing him away with night shade, although i got killed by a destiny bond one...
jirachi usually scares gengars away too, allowing me to set up light screen

vaporeon easily takes care of charizard and blaziken. if charizard subs on my switch in and i know hes gonna belly drum, i roar him as he belly drums, screwing him up. even if blaziken has thunderpunch, vaporeon only takes 30-40%, and can outstall him with wish+protect, eventually bringing me back to full health and then he'll switch out, thinking i'll surf, only to be roared again =]

i've yet to have any problems against metagross. jirachi+vaporeon+skarm stalls out meteormash pp. jirachi takes 2 earthquakes, and can then pass wish to skarm to regain health or stall him further. choice band metagross can't do shit against my team with a crap load of protecters, who can easily check for what move he's using.

zapdos is stopped by celebi. perish song if he uses sub, chasing the enemy away.

vs t-tars, vaporeon stops it. vs boah, jirachi comes in, sets up light screen and wish+protect until its back to high health, then if he doesn't sub, i paralyze him with body slam, and switch in vaporeon, who takes little damage due to lightscreen and can then surf/roar him away

i admit magneton is a huge problem. it stops cloyster and vaporeon. it traps jirachi and skarm. of course, i'll usually check for magneton with phazing moves, and bring in the ultimate staller, dusclops, who needs 3 thunderbolts to be killed. magnetons who think they can sub will have their subs broken by night shade. painsplit+protect combo stalls out magneton's tbolt pp.
jirachi did kill an enemy magneton once though, with some parahaxing + light screen protection.
however, usually i make sure that the magneton doesn't get to stay in, and consistently phazes away the enemy magneton from switching into skarm/vaporeon, forcing it to take a crap load of damage and eventually killing it. thats probably the biggest problem so far i guess.

other than haxing, which owns anything

i dont really feel that need to have backup offense. this team requires some predicting to predict when the enemy will switch, then i phaze again forcing the enemy to take a lot of spikes damage until they can't switch in anymore, and eventually i'll just rape everyone, keeping my pokemon alive with 2 wishers, and then perish song the last enemy.
no celebi=i lose? --> then again, not really. i can still toxic with skarm/dusclops and outstall them.

oh, and dugtrio doesn't kill anything on my team easily

should i replace someone for another electric resist?

 

[Karrot]

Claydol > Cloyster if you're not afraid of losing spikes if Skarmory happens to fall to a Magneton or something. It gives that electric resist (which is extremely helpful against electrics, even if they HP: ice/grass you to death.) and also covers the rather large DDtar weakness you have. You can NOT rely on Vaporeon for taking its hits.

Your team is very vulnerable to critical hits, which is highly evident from your above post that your stalling strategy works by depleting PP. But with such an attackless team you will be battered back and forth by countless CHes as your opponent will be attacking you to death while you only spend about 10% of your time attacking. No matter what you say or how you think, though, two of your team's more important pokemon die easily to Dugtrio. With Celebi gone, your team is highly vulnerable to a Raikou sweep, and even more so when Jirachi loses to it. Jirachi will die to Dugtrio sooner or later even with Protect/Wish, as it is taking about 75-90% from the regular adamant Dugtrio. Then, your team becomes vulnerable to Boah and a few other mixed sweepers.

Such a strategy has a better chance of working in a solid metagame like GSC, where nothing dies too easily. It's a decent concept, though.

 

[snookajam]

how does claydol help against something like zapdos if they're going to hp ice/grass me to death?

 

[rtc3]

Well actually Claydol would be more for Tar, since you have Celebi for Zappy (most of which run hp grass). Cele could take most Raikous too: switch in on a Sub/CM/Tbolt and PS, then recover stall until the switch. However, you need Claydol to cover Tar, and it can Light Screen too (iirc), if you really need it to take some special hits/support the team.

One thing I just noticed about the team though, is due to the overreliance on phazing, you might lose to something gay like a Mr. Mime BPing 6 CMs to something. It could even possibly sweep your team by itself, if left unchecked. Yeah I know it's quite improbable, but still.

And Karrot, isn't saying a team is vulnerable to luck-hax (in this case ch-hax) a moot point? =/

 

[Blln]

IMO, for a stall team to work well, you need to have some sort of cleaner to come in and mop up the other teams remains... killing by pure stalling is pretty hard to do. I would maybe try zapdos or something in place of one of your walls, to help clean up teams weakened by your stalling

 

[Mekkah]

Time to clear up a lot of misunderstandings here.

Metagross = GG

He's got a Vaporeon with Wish/Protect and Surf. If Metagross EVER gets past that, there's still Skarmory which it'll need HP Fire or Thunderpunch for. I think he has worse problems than something he has two bog standard counters for. In other news, that is such a worthless post it isn't even funny. The rules clearly state you should actually contribute something, for example by suggesting a Metagross counter over something that is less important.

Massive Mixlax weak. Also Charizard and Blaziken too.

Mixlax cannot get past Recover Celebi without a BUNCH of luck. It won't get past Dusclops unless it has Shadow Ball AND some ungody luck of critting twice against Pain Split...not to mention it will need to have Rest or Immunity to get past Toxic. If Dusclops actually had Will-o-Wisp this would be totally moot. Usually Mixlax has STAB/Fire Blast/Selfdestruct/Focus Punch or Earthquake though, which is not getting there at all.

I don't see what Charizard and Blaziken are going to "massively weak" with Vaporeon being there, not to mention these two cannot even come in easily.

vs mixlax, skarm can survive 2-3 fire blasts. lets say i spike him once, and he fire blasts me. i then switch to jirachi/dusclops and then set up light screen to reduce fire blast damage. wish + protect back health, then pass wish back to skarm, which then takes little damage due to light screen. if i switch to dusclops, i take about 20+% from a fireblast, wasting 2 of his pp. then i protect to check for shadowball/recover health. if he shadow balls, i switch to skarm to take the hit, then return to dusclops to eat the fire blast for minimum damage. by now his fire blast pp will be only about 2-3, so snorlaxes are handled easily. celebi also takes fire blasts easily, and can then recover back the health and chasing him away with perish song.

That's a lot of words there. Why not just use Dusclops and stall instead of taking the risk your opponent actually sees your switches coming, or gets lucky during the Jirachi exchange?

vs t-tars, vaporeon stops it. vs boah, jirachi comes in, sets up light screen and wish+protect until its back to high health, then if he doesn't sub, i paralyze him with body slam, and switch in vaporeon, who takes little damage due to lightscreen and can then surf/roar him away

Vaporeon doesn't stop Tyranitar. Vaporeon takes more damage from Dragon Danced Rock Slide than she can recover with Wish in time, since she has no Leftovers here. Not to mention using Protect risks Tyranitar predicting that and Dragon Dancing again, AND your Wishes can be Taunted as well.

Jirachi will just eat Focus Punches for good damage, or eat Special Def drops or even worse, a CH. Stalling a Tyranitar is begging for luck, really. Body Slam is only going to paralyze 60% of the time, and will take ages to break Tyranitar's Substitute with. Vaporeon isn't going to take Thunderbolts with Light Screen up: it's going to take Focus Punches.

of course, i'll usually check for magneton with phazing moves, and bring in the ultimate staller, dusclops, who needs 3 thunderbolts to be killed. magnetons who think they can sub will have their subs broken by night shade. painsplit+protect combo stalls out magneton's tbolt pp.

Your Dusclops takes about 40%, usually more, from Magneton's Thunderbolt (talking somewhere between 360 and max (383) Special Attack). If Sand Stream is up, an easy 3HKO. If Sand Stream isn't up, a fairly shaky one. But if Dusclops takes ANY damage beforehand - which is likely because Dusclops is using Pain Split as its recovery move and takes damage from Spikes if you aren't able to remove them in time with Cloyster - you are in a tough situation. Dusclops will be at 60% after switching in on Thunderbolt, or Night Shading a Substitute away while taking Thunderbolt. Magneton can Thunderbolt you again to 20%...if you Pain Split you risk Substitute in your face.

If Magneton has a statusing move, Dusclops is simply going to die. Thunder Wave will fully paralyze you somewhere at a critical moment, while Toxic will just sap away your HP.

Therefore, you should just bring in Celebi to be safe.

i dont really feel that need to have backup offense. this team requires some predicting to predict when the enemy will switch, then i phaze again forcing the enemy to take a lot of spikes damage until they can't switch in anymore, and eventually i'll just rape everyone, keeping my pokemon alive with 2 wishers, and then perish song the last enemy.
no celebi=i lose? --> then again, not really. i can still toxic with skarm/dusclops and outstall them.

No back-up offense can seriously kill you though. While it's hard to defend theoretically, you will often find yourself in situations where you wish to actually hit your opponent hard, instead of slowly sapping his HP or PP. The former is preferable if possible because Pokemon, especially Advance, has the tendacy to launch CHs and such at you if you take too long.

This is why the whole luck thing is relevant.

 

[Karrot]

Actually, I thought I made it pretty clear why luck had a special mention in my earlier post...but just in case I'll mention it again.

His team relies on stalling PP, thus the foe should be attacking a LOT to try to get past his defenses. Because he is attacking often, he will have better chances to get a lucky break. This team has virtually no real offense, only indirect offense that don't get lucky breaks, and thus it will seem as if the opponent is getting crazy hax while you get nothing.

how does claydol help against something like zapdos if they're going to hp ice/grass me to death?

You're relying on PP stalling anyways, so I can see you smart switching against HP:Ice Zapdos so that some of the CHes coming your way are less severe. (I.E. going from Claydol to Jirachi to absorb HP: Ice, which will be NVE.)

The REAL reason I suggested Claydol, though, was in the second part of my paragraph: DDTar. As restated by Mekkah, you CANNOT rely on Vaporeon to absorb the hits. A Vaporeon switching into DDTar will not survive, especially since Sandstream is negating the leftover recovery effect of Protect. I did not suggest any other DDtar counters because Claydol has Rapid Spin, which you would lack if you were using any of the others over Cloyster (possibly the weakest link on the team).

Nevermind, though, I take back the idea of Claydol. Use Donphan because it actually deals damage.

 

[snookajam]

sry if theres a misunderstanding, but my main purpose is not really to stall the opponent's pp, but to lay down 3 layers of spikes, then start phazing, while at the same time inflicting the opponent's pokemon with toxic status and paralyze status (for steel/poisons). stalling pp is just for fun.
i.e.
i switch in dusclops to take tbolt from zapdos!
protect!
pain split!
protect
after this one round i would have about 80% health or so, and zapdos has used up an amazing 8 pp just by tbolting me
about the backup offense, i think that i usually just let spikes deal the damage and use my attacking moves as a last resort. perish song is very useful vs last pokemon =]

 

[COalex]

Wow . . . nice job on this team. I've been succesfully out your team with a few changes: Claydol over Cloyster as has already been said, and Suicune over Vaporeon. Claydol is a bit of a crutch; I'd rather not have to use him, but he's necessary to cover DDtar et al. It hurts to lose some of the redundancy of the team, so now that Skarmory is much more important I gave him Substitute over Toxic to stop Magneton from ruining the team. Toxic is nice, but I think it works better on agressive teams when you don't give the opponent any time to Heal Bell. On a stall team like this, you need to get reeeally lucky and not phaze their beller in.
I dropped Vaporeon for Suicune because Suicune was such a perfect fit for the team. It has better defenses than Vaporeon despite lacking Wish, it helps out your mini-strategy of stalling PP with Pressure, and it provides a very good lategame offense via Calm Mind. The loss of Vaporeon makes your team more vulnerable to Dugtrio (You have to rely more on Jirachi) but stronger against everything else. It also makes a great Salamence switchin, generally being able to force a switch, you can Roar for even more Spikes damage.
The team doesn't really rely on stalling PP, that's just what happens when the battle lasts for 100+ turns. Similarily, his team actually fares better against CHs than some others, since they'll have less chances to critical if they're using two PP per attack. That's the principle of the team; the opponent is forced to devote much more energy to attacking, while this team deals its damage via Spikes, so it can devote all 24 slots to keeping itself alive.

The main problem I see is a Boah weak; Zapdos somewhere would be nice. Everything on this team is weak to one of its attacks except for Jirachi, so HP Grass might not be so insane over Body Slam or even Protect. Another option is a fighting move on Dusclops, but it loves all of its moveslots too much to lose one for a situationally useful attack.
In my testing, CBtar is easily beaten by good prediction and resists for all of its attacks. The sandstorm it brings is much harder to deal with, though. In theory, you've got three guys that resist it, but it hinders Vaporeon / Suicune and Dusclops a ton. Any ideas on how to beat SS teams?

 

[COalex]

Wow . . . nice job on this team. I've been succesfully out your team with a few changes: Claydol over Cloyster as has already been said, and Suicune over Vaporeon. Claydol is a bit of a crutch; I'd rather not have to use him, but he's necessary to cover DDtar et al. It hurts to lose some of the redundancy of the team, so now that Skarmory is much more important I gave him Substitute over Toxic to stop Magneton from ruining the team. Toxic is nice, but I think it works better on agressive teams when you don't give the opponent any time to Heal Bell. On a stall team like this, you need to get reeeally lucky and not phaze their beller in.
I dropped Vaporeon for Suicune because Suicune was such a perfect fit for the team. It has better defenses than Vaporeon despite lacking Wish, it helps out your mini-strategy of stalling PP with Pressure, and it provides a very good lategame offense via Calm Mind. The loss of Vaporeon makes your team more vulnerable to Dugtrio (You have to rely more on Jirachi) but stronger against everything else. It also makes a great Salamence switchin, generally being able to force a switch, you can Roar for even more Spikes damage.
The team doesn't really rely on stalling PP, that's just what happens when the battle lasts for 100+ turns. Similarily, his team actually fares better against CHs than some others, since they'll have less chances to critical if they're using two PP per attack. That's the principle of the team; the opponent is forced to devote much more energy to attacking, while this team deals its damage via Spikes, so it can devote all 24 slots to keeping itself alive.

The main problem I see is a Boah weak; Zapdos somewhere would be nice. Everything on this team is weak to one of its attacks except for Jirachi, so HP Grass might not be so insane over Body Slam or even Protect. Another option is a fighting move on Dusclops, but it loves all of its moveslots too much to lose one for a situationally useful attack.
In my testing, CBtar is easily beaten by good prediction and resists for all of its attacks. The sandstorm it brings is much harder to deal with, though. In theory, you've got three guys that resist it, but it hinders Vaporeon / Suicune and Dusclops a ton. Any ideas on how to beat SS teams?

EDIT: Does Flygon have a place on this team? SS resist, scares off Tyranitar, AND he can Screech.