Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings v2 - Update @236

viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
:ss/ninetales:
Ninetales: A- to A

it feels very weird seeing ninetales in a-, because it's arguably the scariest special attacking sweeper in zu right now. with near flawless coverage, a great offensive type, and resistances to many common types, ninetales is a monster in the late game. thanks to its decent special bulk, it can tank a special attack and proceed to win the entire game. even though it has multiple soft checks, most of these checks fail to stop it if they've been chipped by ninetales's teammates.
 

viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
:ss/aurorus:
Aurorus: B- to B


I wasn't particularly high on Aurorus for a while, because its defensive typing makes it quite frail for a seemingly bulky Pokémon. Not to mention, it's relatively slow, and is weak to Stealth Rock as well. However, with people buzzing about its potential, I realized that the niche Aurorus has a Stealth Rock niche similar to Lurantis's Defog niche.

Lurantis is a Defog user capable of powering through many of the tier's best Stealth Rock users, like Rhydon, Miltank, and Alolan Sandslash. I have Lurantis ranked as a B Tier mon right now. Aurorus is a Pokémon that sets up Rocks and can defeat almost every prominent Defog user in ZU. This includes, but is not limited to: Altaria, Cramorant, and Articuno. Rhydon also similarly does that, but it is much slower. Due to that, I think it's only reasonable for me to give the same energy to Aurorus that I give to Lurantis.

252+ SpA Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Altaria: 456-540 (128.8 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aurorus Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cramorant: 372-440 (108.1 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aurorus Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cramorant: 436-516 (126.7 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aurorus Meteor Beam vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Articuno: 444-528 (115.9 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Fan: 302-356 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lurantis: 350-414 (101.7 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Silvally-Poison: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I think Aurorus overall has a solid role on teams looking for a wallbreaking Stealth Rock setter, that can set the pace via breaking through opposing defenses. As a result, it's a solid alternative to Rhydon on bulky offense + balance teams, that would rather want a special attacker with more unique coverage.

Edit: Even with the incoming tier shifts, I don't think Aurorus would still be a B- mon.
 
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5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
ZUPL has given me a lot to look about. The shifts are really huge, especially with the loss of Jellicent, Ferroseed, and Audino to look about.
Rises:
:Rotom: A+ -> S
This is one of the hardest things to prep on the teambuilder right from the get-go. Volt immunities (Rhydon, Mane, Piloswine) can be both crippled by Wisp, getting tricked a choice item in the case of pilo and rhydon, or just get attacked straight away in Mane's case. Even Stunfisk can potentially lose if it lacks Foul Play. It has the capability to run multiple different sets (Scarf, SubPlot, Specs, Utility Colbur/Sitrus), and has the tools to defeat many aformentioned checks with support from its teammates over the course of a game. Electric/Ghost is not only seldom resisted offensively, but also has neat things in forcing Sawk to run Mold Breaker in order to be less prediction-reliant with Levitate. Having the highest usage in ZUPL outside of Silvally proves how extremely splashable it is, and almost has no counters outside the aformentioned Stunfisks. Out of all the A+ ranks, this is without a doubt the single most dangerous mon in the tier with its extreme flexibility.

:Throh: C+ -> B
Throh's high ZUPL usage for a C tier mon isn't an outlier. The combination of Knock Off and Circle Throw is painfully and surprisingly annoying to deal with in hazard stacking cores - I believe it's an integral part since it not only removes a foe's safety net against hazards, but also disrupts defensive cores by randomly forcing mons like Uxie/Tangela in at the wrong time, which is especially useful since Spinners that can last throughout long battles are difficult to find, and most defoggers are defensively oriented and usually won't threaten to deal significant damage to it. Compared to other fighters, it stomachs special hits like Frosmoth, Ninetales, and Skuntank without much trouble, which patches up holes defensive cores may be weak against.

:Lickilicky: UR -> C+
I don't think Lickilicky is very good. Taunt immunity + larger wishes/bulk are perks, but no regenerator really hurts. It is now one of the premier stall mons and the best wish user (aside from Clefairy or kanga lol), but is this crown worth much to hold?

Drops:

:Pyukumuku: A- -> B-
Stall lost integral staple Audino and is now compelled to use Lickilicky as cleric support. Over the course of a game, Pyukumuku will now be much more vulnerable to hazards like Spikes and Toxic Spikes without Altaria's bulkiness, and Lickilicky demands more support to stomach hits over the course of a game despite its larger wishes and taunt immunity. Even with Rotom-frost leaving the tier, numerous grass-types and skuntank continue to remain popular in the tier, not to mention toxic ruins its job of walling pokemon if not running rest.

:Coalossal: B- -> C+
Coalossal’s “colossal” stats are undermined by its abysmal defensive typing, lack of power to perform its niche (offensive sets are bad since it is so slow), and most importantly, a vulnerability to status and Hazards. Water-types are aplenty with Arctovish and wishiwashi scurrying about, and often finds itself failing to contribute to the team other than getting two spins off before fainting. Flame body can be annoying for the pivots running around like thwackey, but Rapidash also sports flame body and can provide way more utility otherwise.

:Seaking: C- -> UR
Rotom-frost leaving the tier Essentially takes away its niche. While it can still check a handful of things, like electric-types and grounds, it cannot handle wallbreakers at all and will be put into KO range deceptively quickly from the likes of hazards, cinccino, rhydon, etc. minus knock off, Wishiwashi does a much better job as a defensive pivot in every other way.
 
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hi lurker here <3
I've been playing the tier and thoroughly enjoying it,so i thought why not make a post
:ss/basculin: B- -> B or B+
i feel like the recent shifts all going basculin's favour, especially its special sets, :choice specs: and :choice scarf:. It tumbled down a lot when jelli started gaining traction, and stuff like ferro and audino checked it really well too, with physical sets being invalidated by the 'grass tax'.Physical sets are still bad, but special sets become wayyy better, good enough to rank it higher imo, Wishi still acts as a counter, and although cuno doesn't like flip+hydros, it still suffices as a really good check. Another mon that checks it is jynx, which is immune to 3 of the 4 moves. But with a bit of 'innovation', slotting in head smash instead of toxic makes it so that it can instantly drop 2 out of those 3 checks/counters. Not only does it make special basculin a deadly wallbreaker, but it also means it can lure in cuno and dispose it, which is appreciated by teammates like cream or skunk (these 2 can also damage wishi). Basc can also flip on wishi to bring in something like rotom, which no team wants in for free. Stall will also decline with audino being gone and hence pyuku will also likely drop a bit, which basc loves. Another mon worth mentioning is poliwrath, which unfortunately basc cant touch if running a special set, so its a counter,but its not very common so maybe its ok?
That's it, pls lmk if i made any mistakes or sounded stupid. Have a good day everyone:heart:
edit- also works vs cramorant
edit 2-and frosmoth
 
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Hello ZU forum readers. How is it going? With ZUPL close to its resolution, Majors just beginning and shifts happened. I think it's a good time to have a VR tweak before BDSP games realase. (If they even make any changes in the tier at all). So, I'm nomming mons based on my experience and my zupl partners (s/o to morpekos), trends that started to rise in this tournament and so on. I see that some of them are already nommed so I'm going to develop on those if I agree on them.

RISES

A+ to S
Best Pokemon in the tier right now no doubt. Super splashable and diverse that lets it perform multiple roles that are all high tier viable. Rotom restricts teambuilding like no other electric mon in the tier does as it forces to have an electric inmunity to stop Scarf sets which is the most common to basically not get Volt Switched forever. And like I said, other sets like Specs, SubNP, and utility can all cripple or chip for its counters so basically Rotom burst its way through its hard-checks on its own like Rhydon or Stunfisk. Which don't appreciate getting Tricked or status and they will get weaken in the long run. I honestly think Rotom is too good now and deserves a suspect but not the thread for it.

B+ to A-
Virtually this mon has no switch-ins. Between STAB + Psychic and Knock to cripple Clef and fat walls for later, BJ (Sorry Pegi 18 post) is good neutral for stuff like Skunk and Darkvally. What lets it not being broken is its awkward speed tier cuz it usually run modest and the fact that its pretty frail and doesn't have many oppotunities to get on field. But when it does it claims one.


B- to B+
Excellent wallbreaker, very few teams have actual switch to combination of Rock + Ice ,and Freeze-Dry while Meteor Beam is a nice nuke. Even if it has common weaknesses its bulk allows it to stay and sponge hits from mons like Rotom or Rapidash and threaten back with its raw power. It becomes easier to play around when it already uses power herb but a well-played Aurorus will force you to sack something in order to handle it.

B- to B
On paper this got slightly better now with Jelli and Seed gone as it has less stuff that can negate or punish its switching move. There are still quite common water inmunities and consistent switch-ins to Basculin like Poli, Arctovish, Jynx, Eldegoss, Wishi and Cram so I don't think it deserves that high of a rise but if they aren't a water inmunity per-say at least you can Flip Turn forever, maintain momentum and chip those who aren't water inmunity like Cram or Wishi if you keep them low.

C+ to B/B+
Throh's high usage in ZUPL games show how consistently annoying this mon can be as its mixed bulk allows it to check a vast majority of mons in the tier who are more passive and simply lack the power to break through it. Throh can stay in field forever and chip every member of your team by phazing + Knock on hazard stacking making it a solid fighting option and one of our best tanks. Sponging hits from both sides of the spectrum is so helpful and even if it relies on RestTalk it is enough for its longevity and to not get worn down by Toxic.

C to B
Ok I have to admit it now, Eldegoss has finally convinced me. Its ability to come in safely on Rhydon and Rotom thanks to its mixed bulk, scouting and sponging hits even if it gets 2hkod because Regen is broken, and access to hazard removal makes it a nice pick over Tangela on some teams and it has performed decently well on ZUPL games for it as well.

C to B
E-terrain teams are not a niche archetype anymore, they have started to get popular and consistent with the amount of abusers we have and this should be reflected on the mon that enables this archetype to happen.

(Fighting) C to B
FightVally is our 3rd best Vally atm prob tied with E-vally imo, it performs well as a fighting mon that pivots making it an alternative to Sawk. Its AoA set did a fine job in our zupl games piloted by Franklin twice and Evi, Fight MA + BoltBeam coverage help it deal with common fighting answers like Cram, Qwilfish, Altaria and Gourgeist.
C to B-
I still think if Manec is ranked somewhere Raichu should be in the same rank as it is an alternative to it that lets you hit Ground-types, not having to worry at all about Rhydon as an electric type is so helpful as Grass-types switch-ins can get volted on, it also has support options like Knock Off and its has starting to rise in E-terrain teams because of its capability of going unchoiced. Also setup option in NP makes it a potential sweeper so it is versatile enough and as said it shouldn't be lower than Manectric by any means (I think it should be higher than it but B- is ok)
(Super) C to C+
Supergeist acts as a tank who can become a solid fighting switch unlike Smallgeist which lacks the bulk. Being Itemless allows it to wall its counterparts and because it runs bulk over speed its able to run a +atk nature which allows it to hit harder than Itemless Smallgeist. Supergeist can actually 1v1 stuff like Eldegoss by combination of Tox + Synth and its natural bulk.
C to C+

Oonfezant is a very dangerous mon and surprisingly good in a solid amount of matchups. Its strong Flying STAB its very spammable and combined with U-turn to pivot in Rhydon and Slash-a which are its common switch ins its all this mon really needs. It is punished because it wants both CB, boots and Scarf at same time but supported well it can be a solid breaker and revenge killer as apart from the aforementioned, solid flying resists are uncommon letting it 2hko standard walls like Altaria and Uxie, not even Klinklang likes to come in on CB BB.

DROPS

A- to B+

Sure the lost of Audino will definetly make stall worse as Licki is def not a replacement mainly because the lack of regen so I don't wanna nom Licki itself should deserve C-. Still I don't think the drop of Pyuku should be that heavy. Fat builds will find the way to adapt and semi-stall cores are still there and Pyuku will still be a staple on those so I think getting it out of As is right but keeping it high enough.

I'm a happy person today so only one drop. s/o to 5Dots , hiss and SpaceGirl to make some of these already. See ya next time with more about your favorite no-fake pronto official tier :x
 

viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
:ss/stunfisk-galar:
Galarian Stunfisk: C+ to B-
With Rotom dominating the meta in what may potentially be a concerning manner, Galarian Stunfisk stands out as a unique check to it. With its fantastic defensive typing and decent coverage, it's able to check Rotom quite well. It's debatably better at it than Unovan Stunfisk, as coverage moves like Payback do much more to Rotom than Foul Play. Outside of being a very respectable Rotom check, Galarian Stunfisk functions as a defensive Stealth Rock setter to an OK degree. It's a bit too passive, which is why it cannot rise as high, but it's a decently splashable mon that checks a few very important Pokémon in the tier.

:ss/klinklang:
Klinklang: B+ to A-
ZU is a tier quite lacking in Steel-types, so a Pokémon that can fill in that role is fantastic. In particular, bulky Shift Gear sets for Klinklang have tremendous amounts of upside IMO. Being able to use many of the best defensive Pokémon as pure setup fodder (Alcremie, Tangela, Alolan Sandslash, etc) is a massive benefit that not many setup sweepers have. Not to mention, bulky SG Klinklang can successfully take hits from the likes of Cinccino, Thwackey, and Frosmoth. I think that despite its occasional reliance on team support, Klinklang has the peaks of other Pokémon in A tier.

:ss/jynx:
Jynx: A- to A
To be completely honest, I think Jynx is one of the scariest special attackers in ZU right now. Although it does have a great 125 Special Attack alongside Ice STAB, its versatility is what makes it stand out to me. Despite its trouble getting onto the field, Specs Jynx is an absolute nuke with virtually zero consistent switch-ins. Scarf Jynx acts as a very underrated cleaner that's faster than many other Scarf users in the tier. Of course though, its Nasty Plot sets are where it shines the most consistently. Foregoing special walls with Psyshock is huge, having coverage with Focus Blast is also a considerable option, and having the benefit of running Substitute or Lovely Kiss is great. Jynx is one of those Pokémon that every team needs to take into consideration, and for that reason I think it's a solid A tier.

Repeat Noms + Noms I Agree With:
:rotom: up to S
:thievul: up to A-
:throh: up to B+
:basculin: up to B
:eldegoss: up to B
:pyukumuku: down to B
:silvally: (Fighting) up to B-
:seaking: down to UR
 
Wanted to make some noms since it looks like the council will be shifting things around soon.

:ss/thwackey:
Thwackey to A+
Thwackey is so, so good. The Choice Band sets provide such amazing offensive utility with the ability to pivot, break, spread Knocks, act as speed control, and provide recovery for teammates. (It also denies the resurging Electric Terrain!) Most importantly, though, Thwackey is the chief engineer of so many of the VoltTurn teams that are both popular and effective right now. Thwackey helps define the metagame and is one of the best Pokemon we have in the tier. It deserves to be ranked as such.

:ss/eldegoss:
Eldegoss to A-
I was very skeptical of Eldegoss at first, but ZUPL proved how good this thing is. Other people have said nice things about Goss, but I think it's way too good to be in B ranks. Its natural bulk and access to Regenerator allow it to be a midground and scout a lot of threats (like Specs Basculin, for example). And if supported correctly, Goss arguably alleviates the need for a Ground-type, as it can consistently switch into Rotom and regenerate the damage. These traits can afford players a lot of flexibility in the builder, especially when you consider the role compression Eldegoss offers. It's just too good to be a B rank Pokemon, in my opinion.

:ss/thievul:
Thievul to S
The fox is an absolute menace with Choice Specs. It has quietly benefitted from the departure of Silvally-Ground, as the uptick in offensive Poison-types has made life harder for one of its few true counters - Clefairy. Outside of Clefairy and Articuno - both of which hate getting knocked by Thievul - defensive counterplay is dependent upon predictions or one-time switch-ins.

If you do not have one of the aforementioned Pokemon, your team needs to be structured in a way that discourages Thievul from clicking Dark Pulse. Even then, some of the stuff that resists Dark Pulse drops to Psychic. Throh and Alcremie resist Dark Pulse, but they have a 0% chance and a 35% chance to live two Psychics, respectively. Again, you're playing a really dangerous game making switches whenever Thievul is in front of you.

Thievul's awkward speed tier does make it easy to pressure offensively, but it's ultimately a breaker and it almost always claims a kill when you get it in. And considering how good VoltTurn is right now, that's not very difficult. I would argue that this is the biggest threat in the tier right now.

:ss/frosmoth:
Frosmoth to B
Frosmoth is just not the threat that it used to be now that it has several splashable counters. Articuno and utility Rapidash are common utility mons with recovery, and they can consistently thwart Frosmoth's efforts throughout the course of a game. Sandslash-Alola is also popular and can exploit Frosmoth to set hazards, clear hazards, or spread Knock Off. Frosmoth can be very threatening if it gets 2 Quiver Dances under its belt, but it really struggles to get there and it seems to require more dedicated team support than other setup sweepers. I admittedly don't have a ton of experience with the U-Turn and QD + 3 Attacks sets, but the standard SubQD set feels underwhelming right now.

Other noms I agree with:
:rotom: to S
:silvally: (Fighting) to B
 
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Alright now that ZUPL is over I can reply to some of these. Prepare for a VERY long post.

:ss/ninetales:
Ninetales: A- to A

it feels very weird seeing ninetales in a-, because it's arguably the scariest special attacking sweeper in zu right now. with near flawless coverage, a great offensive type, and resistances to many common types, ninetales is a monster in the late game. thanks to its decent special bulk, it can tank a special attack and proceed to win the entire game. even though it has multiple soft checks, most of these checks fail to stop it if they've been chipped by ninetales's teammates.
I know this post is heavily dated for a different time period in the metas development but even when this was post I think it was at a time where tales had already fallen off. This mons good for about a week at a time and then it totally falls flat, kind of like basc/frosmoth where its only good in metas where people forget about them. I think this mon should fall to B+ rather than rise

:Lickilicky: UR -> C+
I don't think Lickilicky is very good. Taunt immunity + larger wishes/bulk are perks, but no regenerator really hurts. It is now one of the premier stall mons and the best wish user (aside from Clefairy or kanga lol), but is this crown worth much to hold?
Licki isn't a premier stall mon. You have the ability to run non wish stall and its honestly going to be better than anything licki can provide given the premier taunt mon, skuntank, can just still freely click NP on the switch in (because you rarely need to hard commit to a taunt against stall given its toxic immunity) and 3hko the Licki. If you can manage to knock the skunk ahead of time you can pretty much trade with it with body slams but I think this is a mon where replays are going to be needed to show off it working because honestly I don't see it having a place on stall quite yet.


hi lurker here <3
I've been playing the tier and thoroughly enjoying it,so i thought why not make a post
:ss/basculin: B- -> B or B+
i feel like the recent shifts all going basculin's favour, especially its special sets, :choice specs: and :choice scarf:. It tumbled down a lot when jelli started gaining traction, and stuff like ferro and audino checked it really well too, with physical sets being invalidated by the 'grass tax'.Physical sets are still bad, but special sets become wayyy better, good enough to rank it higher imo, Wishi still acts as a counter, and although cuno doesn't like flip+hydros, it still suffices as a really good check. Another mon that checks it is jynx, which is immune to 3 of the 4 moves. But with a bit of 'innovation', slotting in head smash instead of toxic makes it so that it can instantly drop 2 out of those 3 checks/counters. Not only does it make special basculin a deadly wallbreaker, but it also means it can lure in cuno and dispose it, which is appreciated by teammates like cream or skunk (these 2 can also damage wishi). Basc can also flip on wishi to bring in something like rotom, which no team wants in for free. Stall will also decline with audino being gone and hence pyuku will also likely drop a bit, which basc loves. Another mon worth mentioning is poliwrath, which unfortunately basc cant touch if running a special set, so its a counter,but its not very common so maybe its ok?
That's it, pls lmk if i made any mistakes or sounded stupid. Have a good day everyone:heart:
edit- also works vs cramorant
edit 2-and frosmoth
Huge support for this nom. Specs basc was something I was wanting to bring my entire ZUPL run but I couldn't justify someone throwing a curve ball and randomly bringing a Jellicent even tho scouting told me a lot of the time they wouldn't. However now that both Jellicent and Ferroseed are gone you're now freely able to use the fish and feel good about it. I could honestly see this going WAY higher than just B+, I think its insane right now.


B+ to A-
Virtually this mon has no switch-ins. Between STAB + Psychic and Knock to cripple Clef and fat walls for later, BJ (Sorry Pegi 18 post) is good neutral for stuff like Skunk and Darkvally. What lets it not being broken is its awkward speed tier cuz it usually run modest and the fact that its pretty frail and doesn't have many oppotunities to get on field. But when it does it claims one.
While I pretty much agree with everything else. I think Thievul is a mon that shouldn't go to A- because its going to look better in a tournament setting compared to general use. Its a mon that hard punishes balance and excels at breaking down specific team structures but you have to know ahead of time what you're working against which means its almost exclusively a mid to late tournament pick when you have ample usage to look back on. Its extremely good at what it does but what it's good at doing is being a call out tournament pick that relies on the element of surprise to net an easy win, but because of how much natural counter play there is (cremie, clef, more offensive teams) you're really not going to able to bring it without being hard punished if you over rely on it.


:ss/stunfisk-galar:
Galarian Stunfisk: C+ to B-
With Rotom dominating the meta in what may potentially be a concerning manner, Galarian Stunfisk stands out as a unique check to it. With its fantastic defensive typing and decent coverage, it's able to check Rotom quite well. It's debatably better at it than Unovan Stunfisk, as coverage moves like Payback do much more to Rotom than Foul Play. Outside of being a very respectable Rotom check, Galarian Stunfisk functions as a defensive Stealth Rock setter to an OK degree. It's a bit too passive, which is why it cannot rise as high, but it's a decently splashable mon that checks a few very important Pokémon in the tier.
So pretty much every pro you listed for it also applies to regular Stunfisk but the key difference between the two is unlike regular Stunfisk, you're not getting run over by Thwacky + Skuntank/Rotom cores because of Stunfisk-g's unfortunate ability turning it into a pure grass type under Grassy Terrain. There's no realistic reason to run Stunfisk-g and honestly its another mons I'd rather see drop all the way to C- rather than rise. There's just little to no justification to running it when Thwacky + Skunk/Rotom is one of the most standard offensive cores we're seeing right now.


:ss/eldegoss:
Eldegoss to A-
I was very skeptical of Eldegoss at first, but ZUPL proved how good this thing is. Other people have said nice things about Goss, but I think it's way too good to be in B ranks. Its natural bulk and access to Regenerator allow it to be a midground and scout a lot of threats (like Specs Basculin, for example). And if supported correctly, Goss arguably alleviates the need for a Ground-type, as it can consistently switch into Rotom and regenerate the damage. These traits can afford players a lot of flexibility in the builder, especially when you consider the role compression Eldegoss offers. It's just too good to be a B rank Pokemon, in my opinion.
So while I'm totally on board with the Goss hype, I think A- is way too much of an over reaction. Its still got flaws of being passive, some times getting out pressured by SD Rhydon as +2 stone edge absolutely nukes it, and relying on Sleep Powder hits to not totally get abused by almost everything. It is nice Ferroseed left as we can now cut Pollen Puff for options like Aroma or Leech Seed but I think its not worth the A ranks.



:ss/thievul:
Thievul to S
The fox is an absolute menace with Choice Specs. It has quietly benefitted from the departure of Silvally-Ground, as the uptick in offensive Poison-types has made life harder for one of its few true counters - Clefairy. Outside of Clefairy and Articuno - both of which hate getting knocked by Thievul - defensive counterplay is dependent upon predictions or one-time switch-ins.

If you do not have one of the aforementioned Pokemon, your team needs to be structured in a way that discourages Thievul from clicking Dark Pulse. Even then, some of the stuff that resists Dark Pulse drops to Psychic. Throh and Alcremie resist Dark Pulse, but they have a 0% chance and a 35% chance to live two Psychics, respectively. Again, you're playing a really dangerous game making switches whenever Thievul is in front of you.

Thievul's awkward speed tier does make it easy to pressure offensively, but it's ultimately a breaker and it almost always claims a kill when you get it in. And considering how good VoltTurn is right now, that's not very difficult. I would argue that this is the biggest threat in the tier right now.
See above. One of the things you're really not taking into account is the fact that without stakeout boost its actually not even really that strong, so some games not only can you just get offensively out pressured and not get off the ground with it, some times things are just not within ohko range of non stake out boosted hits so you can't actually use it to force a break. Its an extremely hit or miss mon that relies on proper scouting and a well timed bring and not something I'd consider for S.



1634351762860.png

B+ --> A-
Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Teleport
- Moonlight

36 def EVs avoids the 2hko from utility dash flare blitz


Okay now for my own nominations. Clefairy was my secret weapon for my teams this entire ZUPL run because of how well Teleport Clefairy just opens up so many teams to abuse their breakers while instantly fixing the reliance teams have on Altaria/Articuno/utility Dash by having a rocker that abuses their defog with momentum that can also just directly switch into them without worry of Toxic. It also walls the Thievul everyones been hyping up, so I think the second more teams catch up on Port Clef we're going to see a very large dip in Thievul.

1634351783525.png

B --> B+
Max speed timid Cramorant was a life saver being able to consistently check Skuntank on top of just being a menace. I got really frustrated with Rhydon/Stunfisk teams to avoid losing to Skuntank and swapping into using more Cramorant really opened up a variety of team cores that you just couldn't get out of running the Ground type rockers that you felt stuck using. This thing opens up so much in the builder as a Skunk, Dash, Tales, and Basculin switch in all inside of your defogger that thrives in making chaos with Gulp Missile being a pain to play around. Avarice vs OBB was a great example of what kind of pressure it can put out as well as letting us run a max speed max attack Rhydon variant that we couldn't otherwise run because of the Skuntank match up punishing the lack of bulk.


1634352113945.png

B --> B+
This thing was already a crazy wall breaker, picking up quite a few wins in ZUPL, but especially with Ferroseed gone this thing reaches new heights of viability. I could honestly see this going even higher than B+ as a budget Drampa so make sure to keep this mon on your radar.


1634352202566.png

C+ --> B-
Cryogonal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 116 SpD / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Haze
- Defog / Toxic/ Knock Off
- Recover

Speed creeps timid Rotom

Honestly such a sick mon. Used it two or three times in all during ZUPL where it went undefeated. Haze Cryognal has such an interesting match up spread as an answer to NP rotom, skunk, alcremie, and a few other really scary mons like specs Appletun, Raichu, and even forces Thievul isn't clicking Burning Jealousy which, given its lack of power and not locking a STAB, means you can call it out and end up just killing it which takes a lot of pressure off. It also can double as a defogger so its even acting in place of Haze Cuno in a lot of cases as a side grade to it because its speed and not being weak to Electric gives it a match better NP Rotom match up.

1634352696798.png

B- --> A-
This things so good right now when you factor in you can flex between Colbur and Kassib berry and claim a free kill on Rotom. I think my team made up like most of this mons usage this ZUPL and it worked so well in testing and every single game we brought it. Everyone kinda knows what it does so I went draw on too long on it, but there's this cool set daniYSB and I came up with during testing of just dropping Iron Defense for Sleep Talk and play it more as a tank without a window of getting abused.

1634352937310.png

A --> A+
This mon was the cornerstone of the ZUPL meta and for good reason. Its insane and you net a lot of power with only tiny bits of team support (Thwacky and Hex Rotom being the main ones). The counter play to it can at times rely on RNG with sludge poisons and +2 Dark Pulse flinches which plays a huge factor in terms of "clutch" factor of this mon which, while sad to rely on, does technically give you an out to play for in certain situations against things like Rhydon and Stunfisk that other mons really can't hope for. Skuntank also offers a ton of defensive utility which makes it super splashable on a lot of teams.
 
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Tuthur

formerly 0-7 in FCL
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My turn!

:alcremie: A+ -> A-
Alcremie isn't as good as it used to. It very rarely sweeps or breaks, and Clefairy is most of the time a better option due to its superior utility and ability in a Spike heavy metagame.

:tangela: A+ -> A
Tangela is still good, but it's not near as mandatory as it was. It gets abused by a lot of new trends like Thievul and Throh and in a Spike heavy metagame, it struggles to forgoe Synthesis. It also faces heavy competition from Eldegoss.

:rotom::sawk: A+ -> S
I think those two are apart anything else in the tier. Some posts already explained my opinion on Rotom, while Sawk is the best Choice Scarf user in the tier, one of the best wallbreaker between CB and BB, and a very potent Knock Off user.

:sandslash-alola: A -> A+
I think this mon got underrated when we first ranked it. Alolan Sandslash's ability to setup Spikes is unmatched and defensive sets can easily keep them up. While offensive sets have very few switch-ins, Choice Band Triple Axel is a nuke and Earthquake nails common Ice-resists like Rapidash and Perrserker.

:cinccino:A- -> A:kangaskhan: A -> A-
I think both need to switch their places, Kangaskhan's superior bulk isn't as good as Cinccino's superior Speed where it is extremely important to outspeed Silvally formes and Jolly Sawk.

:gurdurr: A- -> B :throh: C+ -> A-
Gurdurr is still not bad, but Throh fits so much more. The superior special bulk letting it handle Rotom and Tangela, but Throh mostly shines within Spikes stack team which are on the rise due to its incredible ability to dish out Knock Off and phaze foes.

:clefairy::cofagrigus::eldegoss: to A
i cba to explain why these Pokemon are amazing. Just check ZUPL replays and stats and you'll see why that these Pokemon are amazing. Clefairy is the sole Fairy-type you really want to use and is extremely customisable. Cofag is more than ID sweeper, RestTalk sets are great blanket physical check that are very hard to offensively abuse and the best spinblocker now that Jellicent left. Eldegoss is a better Tangela in a lot of situations because it isn't as weak to special attackers, especially Thievul and can spin on a lot of stuffs.

:uxie: A- -> B
Pivot Uxie is garbage like it has been for months, but in a metagame with so many phazing, Steel-types, and Dark-types, Nasty Plot Uxie isn't even that good.

:qwilfish: A- -> A
I was wrong, Qwilfish is still amazing because Spikes are great. This Pokemon performed extremely well during ZUPL, should be a no-brainer.

:wishiwashi: A -> A+
Wishiwashi does so much, being able to take advantage of almost any passive foe, absorbing status, and checking threatening attackers like Rhydon. I feel like nothing really changed for Wishiwashi, but I think it is the single best purely defensive Pokemon in the tier.

:stunfisk: B+ -> B-
It is a defensive Pokemon that can't heal, has 0 offensive pressure, loses to every hazard remover, can't absorb status or Knock Off, weak to Spikes, ... I really struggle to fit this Pokemon in any team, especially since Piloswine and Rhydon are two great Ground-types.

:perrserker: B -> B+
More people experienced with Thievul + Perrserker during ZUPL and this core is nasty at breaking. Rapidash getting worse and Jellicent leaving also help it as it makes two of its best counters less common. Overall, Perrserker has just been a staple on voltturn teams this zupl.

:dugtrio-alola: B- -> B+
This mon made nasty things during ZUPL as it seemed everyone had forgot about it and Tangela is getting less usages at the favor of physically defensive wishiwashi and eldegoss.

:lapras: C -> UR
It doesn't trap anything anymore. Audino left, Ferroseed left, Alcremie isn't used as much as before, Grassy Seed sweepers got banned, Clefairy runs Teleport more often than not.

:hattrem: C- -> B-
A big jump for the hat, however non Rest-Talk sets are really cool due to them negligating every common hazards setter (qwilfish, rhydon, piloswine, sandslash). Healing Wish is also extremely potent for most offense and Hattrem just found a new archetype to shine in.

:coalossal: B- -> B
Just like Qwilfish and Snowslash, Coal is really good because Spikes are amazing because hazard control is kinda lame at the moment. Jellicent leaving also helps it a ton because now teams struggle a lot more to spinblock it.

:rapidash: A -> A-
I've built a lot around Rapidash during this ZUPL and I have to say it isn't as good as it used to. It gets checked by so much and it is more of a Pokemon you put at the end of your balance team to fix weaknesses to Alcremie and Frosmoth than anything.

I also agree that Thievul, Unfeant, and Basculin should rise and some other stuffs too. Pincurchin and Silvally-Fighting are unmons though, they have nothing to do in B ranks and are more disappointing than anything.
 

viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
I know this post is heavily dated for a different time period in the metas development but even when this was post I think it was at a time where tales had already fallen off. This mons good for about a week at a time and then it totally falls flat, kind of like basc/frosmoth where its only good in metas where people forget about them. I think this mon should fall to B+ rather than rise
kay and i can never agree ;w;

:ss/ninetales:
Ninetales: Boom or Bust?

I still don't agree with ranking Ninetales anywhere below A-. It's difficult for me to begin with this, but I'll start out by pointing out the difference between the mons you're comparing Ninetales to. Simply put, Ninetales has significantly greater team flexibility than Frosmoth and Basculin, making it much less of a hassle to both build around or apply to a team. This is due to its diverse coverage, its solid bulk for a sweeper/breaker, and its notable speed tier. There are many situations where Ninetales forces the opponent to switch into their defensive check to Ninetales, because its STAB Fire Blast alongside its wide coverage gives it immediate power on the field. So, it's one of the easiest Pokémon to get setups with from my experience.

Of course, there's no doubt that Ninetales has its solid checks, especially Rapidash. However, it can't be denied that many of Ninetales's checks do not enjoy facing against a Nasty Plot boost. This is especially so when one considers how easy Nasty Plot boosts are to perform.
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Wishiwashi-School: 168-198 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 208-246 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ninetales is obviously far from an unbeatable Pokémon, and it has defensive checks. Cramorant, Altaria, and Appletun are other examples of these really good checks. Still, it's not like a mild amount of team support won't easily forego this, especially considering that those 3 Pokémon each have very pronounced weaknesses. Additionally, don't forget that checks like Wishiwashi started running Liquidation purely so that it doesn't get dropped by two +2 Energy Balls (because Scald is doing 90% at most). I think Ninetales has a bigger impact on the meta than people give it credit for.

Another thing I wanted to point out is a pattern in these recent nominations. Rapidash is falling, Stunfisk is falling, Pyukumuku is falling. You already know what those 3 have in common relative to Ninetales. On the other hand, Pokémon like Alolan Sandslash, Eldegoss, Coalossal, Qwilfish, Skuntank, and Cryogonal are on the rise. Again, you know what the similarities are, relative to Ninetales.

I would be cherrypicking if I only mentioned that, though. There are some major checks to Ninetales on the rise, those being Cramorant, Throh, Clefairy, and Appletun. With that in mind, it's still clear that these Pokémon have weaknesses that don't require immense demand. Some of the best teammates for Ninetales, that do a great job of KO'ing or weaknening its counters, are some of the most splashable mons in ZU. Alolan Sandslash, Rotom, Thwackey, and Clefairy are just some of the teammates that assist Ninetales and also love its presence. Ninetales also is a great benefitter from the Spikes meta we're in, because it loves picking on weakened opponents and has the benefit of always using boots.

In return, Ninetales's value as a fast and powerful special sweeper with great coverage and decent bulk is greatly appreciated. That's what separates it from your comparison to Basculin and Frosmoth ~ Basculin is an insane breaker with mediocre coverage and terrible bulk, and Frosmoth is a potent sweeper with middling coverage and a poor speed tier. Ninetales provides a much more consistent helping of attributes, making it more than just a Pokémon that's "only good in metas where people forget about them".

Wrapping it all up, while Ninetales has its flaws, I think the value it brings to the table is too good to make it fall off. I completely understand that I'm dying on a weird hill right now. Despite this, I'm more than willing to push the Ninetales Agenda™
 

5Dots

Chairs
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Going to throw in a few noms before the slate closes :smogduck:

:Exeggutor: C -> C+
This thing is stupidly hard to switch into without something like SpD Articuno, A-Sandslash, or Steel types. Altaria and even skuntank gets 2HKOed running the standard set by psychic and leaf storm respectively. Eggy’s speed, while poor overall, can also be just fast enough to outspeed threats like Piloswine and Rhydon, which makes it a situational switch in to such threats and hard counters a prominent special wall in Stunfisk. Sun, OTR, and Eject Pack are nifty sets but I think Specs Eggy deserves full spotlight for its massive power, which makes it a reasonable candidate for VoltTurn teams.

:Beheeyem: UR -> C-
Trick Room is a legitimate archetype given the prominence of bulky offense teams and voltturn. Beheeyem sports an astronomical special attack stat paired with handy coverage moves that allows it to sport nice matchups against bulkier teams. I‘m not going to repeat what I said on the August slate, but I’ve used it in ZULT and ZU Majors and was able to get some nice matchups against it:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1436093379 - Beheeyem was able to use the absurd power of meteor beam to become an effective mid-game breaker, allowing Musharna to clean up late-game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1423425386 - Beheeyem was able to effectively utilize a pseudo Z-Move to lure and destroy Articuno, which otherwise slows Musharna’s progress down.

:Beartic: C -> UR
I think Beartic has fared worse without Audino - It distinguished itself from Arctovish and Alola Sandslash with Taunt to lure Pyukumuku, and did well against special walls like Audino and Ferroseed via Superpower. With Pyuk getting much worse and the latter two leaving the tier, I don’t think Beartic should be used. Hail is already a niche archetype (even worse than Trick Room), and Beartic isn’t even a premier hail abuser given its horrid defensive typing and competition with the aformentioned slush rush abusers. This is also factoring in how it is somewhat weak without Boots or gets worn down even faster if running life orb, which is problematic given how prominent knock off and hazards are respectively.

:Trevenant: C+ -> C
Although it sports much higher attack than Gourgeist and access to Wood Hammer and Earthquake, Trev is hard to justify over numerous other offensive and defensive grass-types. Its lack of speed makes it quite hard to use on offense and can’t afford to run mixed sets like Gourgeist-S does, and as a defensive grass Tangela, eldegoss, and even Gourgeist-XL provide a better defensive backbone with their bulkier stats. Even on Grassy Terrain teams, other Grassy Glide users like Gourgeist-S and Flapple again provide severe competition for the slot.

:Pyukumuku: B+ -> C+
Stall has become much worse without Audino (and to a lesser extent Ferroseed and Jellicent); with the best Wish user being Lickylicky. In a tier filled with Grass-types, Skuntank, Toxic, Knock Off and hazards, Pyuk will have trouble stalling out foes since they can use its presence as a way to freely pivot around to their poison/steel/status absorber or just use it as setup fodder. If Audino drops back then it should rise back to its better standing, but its difficult to justify using Pyuku without Audino.
 
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OranBerryBlissey10

is a Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
:Silvally: (Dark): A- to A: Depending on your fourth move, darkvally really only struggles with fighters or fairies as it can break through most physical walls with no/minimal support. Some pretty deadly voltturn cores can be built with this in mind, for example psyfangs darkvally + cb perrs. Darkvally in general has been criminally underused for how good it is.

:Tangela: A+ to A: People have been successfully adapting to tang for months now, it's no longer the catch-all physical wall it used to be with the popularizing of wallbreakers that don't mind it as much + knocking it isn't hard. It also has to pick between sludge bomb (so you don't have synth and lose to stuff like darkvally) or synth (so you get walled by darks). I was on the initial tang train all the way back in vikavolt meta but it's genuinely not as good as it used to be.

:Articuno: A to B+: Idt cuno got worse specifically I'm just wondering what it's doing so high. It loses to a lot of common stuff and its cb/subtox/stall sets are notably worse due to the rise of steels and audino leaving. Might seem like a pretty big drop but articuno just fails to impress me a lot of the time.

:Thievul: B+ to A+: Thievul is cracked rn, stakeout is a pain as always and it was optimalized quite a bit during zupl. Its checks get chunked by coverage and it's not hard to bring in via pivoting. Just a huge threat in general.

:Perrserker: B to B+: Perrserker is a great breaker in general and has seen a small uptick in usage recently. An offensive steel type near-perfect coverage + uturn are unique traits that make it a pretty scary mon. Jelly leaving also helps it significantly. (btw fake out is secretly the best 4th move bc u say no to faster choiced mons that try to finish u off like manec or sawk)

:Basculin: B- to B+: Jelly being everywhere was pain for basculin and ferro was annoying too. It's significantly better now and I can def see this rising even more.

:Eldegoss: C to B: Eldegoss is almost solely carried by how good rhydon is rn. It's a worse tang but with spin and good spdef to put it crudely, I find myself putting this on teams more often than tang just because spinning vs rhydon/fisk and doing decently vs the ghosts is so convenient. (tuthur is crazy for thinking it's A tho)

:Hattrem: C- to C+: Walls a bunch of hazard setters and provides great support with nuzzle/hwish (the rise of qwil especially really helps)

:Shiinotic: C- to C: I'm gonna get memed on for saying this but shii is unironically still decent. Even with its main draw being banned it's still useful vs a lot of random mons, most notably being the most punishing sawk answer. Ssap and spore are annoying as always. (I've talked about this mon before and a lot of it is still applicable, not gonna repeat myself)

I also think pretty much all of the niche low ranked vally forms could rise a subrank or two, personally nomming firevally to C, watervally to C+ and psyvally to B. I swear I had replays they must be on an obscure alt lol

:Beartic: C to UR: Hail is already kinda bad, explain to me why I would ever use this over slash and vish lol.

:Bellossom:, :Seaking: and :Type: Null: all from C- to UR: Just horrible and/or outclassed.

Excuse the chaotic nature of this post, I swear my noms are good regardless of how poorly I phrase my thoughts.
That's all from me, have a good day :)
 

5gen

jumper
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Hey all, here are the results of the VR update (sheet for reference and credit to Tuthur for compiling):

Appletun B -> B+
Aurorus B- -> B+
Basculin B- -> A-
Bouffalant C- -> C
Cinccino A- -> A
Clefairy B+ -> A-
Coalossal B- -> B
Cofagrigus B+ -> A-
Cramorant B -> B+
Dugtrio-A B- -> B
Eldegoss C -> B+
Gourgeist-XL C -> C+
Hattrem C- -> C
Jynx A- -> A
Klinklang B+ -> A-
Perrserker B -> B+
Qwilfish A- -> A
Raichu C -> B-
Rotom A+ -> S
Sandslash-A A -> A+
Sawk A+ -> S
Shiinotic C- -> C
Silvally-Dark A- -> A
Silvally-Fighting C -> B-
Thievul B+ -> A-
Throh C+ -> A-
Unfezant C -> C+
Wishiwashi A -> A+

New Placement Beheeyem to C- and Shedinja to C

Alcremie A+ -> A
Articuno A -> A-
Gurdurr A- -> B+
Ninetales A- -> B
Pyukumuku A- -> B
Uxie A- -> B+
Removed Pokemon: Bellossom Carracosta Noctowl Runerigus:psycry: Seaking

New S ranks in :rotom: and :sawk:
Rotom and Sawk have been to of the most splashable and reliable Pokemon for a while now. Rotom is one of the toughest Pokemon to switch into because it can overwhelm typical Electric-type checks such as Rhydon and Stunfisk with Wisp+Hex and facilitate breakers due to its effectiveness as a pivot. Rotom also has a variety of sets in Choice Scarf, Nasty Plot, and Choice Specs which allow it to have better matchups in specific archetypes such as offense and stall. On the other hand, Sawk is the premier revenge killer and breaker. Anyone who has played ZU in recent months knows how common Choice Scarf Sawk is. In addition, Choice Band and Black Belt sets are arguably what push Sawk to S-rank. CB Sawk is a menace with few switch-ins and an ability to break down any switch in if predicted correctly. Similarly, Black Belt helps Sawk bluff CB so it can switch up moves and play around checks more easily. Both Rotom and Sawk heavily influence trends and how teams are structured as a result.

:sandslash-alola: to A+
While a bit more controversial than other rises, Sandslash-A fills much needed defensive roles for teams and also has offensive sets to boot. Sandslash-A provides a lot of value for teams for a multitude of reasons: pressures common entry hazard removers, breaks down teams with Knock Off, Toxic, and/or Spikes, scouts Choice-item users via Protect, and checks Pokemon like Double Dance Alcremie, Frosmoth, Tangela, Thwackey, etc. Because of these reasons, Sandslash-A is nearly unparalleled in the support it can provide. Offensive sets have less merit but are still relatively threatening due to good matchups against common walls like Tangela, Stunfisk, Rhydon, and Altaria.

:wishiwashi: to A+
Wishiwashi is one of the best defensive pivots ZU has to offer. Simply put, Wishiwashi soft checks much of the metagame and grabs momentum with a slow U-turn, making it a highly effective Pokemon. It is also a wall that has solid damage output, which means it's not setup bait nearly as much as other walls like Clefairy and Stunfisk.

There are other rises for offensive Pokemon like Jynx, Silvally-Dark, Thievul, and Klinklang. All of these Pokemon have improved as breakers with Audino, Ferroseed, and Jellicent rising and/or capitalize on metagame trends. Defensively, Clefairy, Cofagrigus, Throh, Qwilfish, and Eldegross all became better in this meta as defensive cores have reshaped and teams need different backbones. Throh and Eldegross especially made huge jumps because they both excel at checking top threats and teams need their defensive utility.

:alcremie: A+ to A
Double Dance sets have dipped in effectiveness as teams better prepare for Alcremie via breakers, phazers/Trick/Switcheroo Pokemon, and walls like Sandslash-A, Wishiwashi, and Poison Jab Qwilfish that help limit Alcremie's ability to set up. Calm Mind Recover, offensive sets, and other sets like defensive with Aromatherapy have never really been A+.

:articuno: A to A-
Articuno is still a decent entry hazard remover and wall, but faces trouble as Sandslash-A, Rhydon, Rotom, Klinklang, and Perrserker have become more popular. Also, Rapid Spin Sandslash-A and Defog Cramorant give it competition as an entry hazard remover. While Cuno still performs its role well, it's more difficult to justify nowadays for all these reasons.

:ninetales: A- to B
Teams simply prepare for Ninetales better nowadays and it is much less consistent than it was previously. Trends like Altaria, Wishiwashi, Rapidash, Stunfisk, Basculin, etc just limit Ninetales too much.

:Gurdurr: A- to B+
Slight drop here as teams naturally pressure Gurdurr better now due to trends like Cramorant, Altaria, Silvally-Poison, and Clefairy. While it fills a different role than Throh, Gurdurr still faces competition from it as a bulky Fighting-type and teams tend to value Throh more nowadays because of its bulk and ability to phaze and absorb status.

:uxie: A- to B+
Uxie continues its decent and is out of the A ranks after being a staple for many months. Trends like Steel-types improving and increased usage of breakers such as Thievul, Skuntank, and Silvally-Dark make it somewhat difficult for teams to justify Uxie. Also, Uxie kind of struggles against Defoggers and is quite easy to wear down and play around.
 
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viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
I know we just had a VR slate, but I wanted to do a quick writeup on some Pokémon that I neglected to highlight in my last VR nom because I was too busy nominating Thievul to S.

:ss/ludicolo:
Ludicolo to B/B-

This party pineapple feels pretty good right now. Its original fall from grace was understandable considering there were a lot of trends working against its traditional Swift Swimmer set, but I think the current meta is more favorable to it as a breaker.

Ferroseed’s promotion to PU was a boon for Ludicolo, and it also transitively enjoys the departure of Jellicent because Basculin’s increased viability reinforces the need for hard Water resistances. Wishiwashi has gained a lot of popularity as a Water resist and slow pivot, and Ludicolo can make use of its Grass-type STAB to exploit teams that rely on Wishiwashi to answer Water-type attacks.

Water-Grass-Ice coverage is just really good in general and 306 Special Attack is enough to break down a lot of defensive structures, especially FWG cores.

Ludicolo is much better when its fourth move is Knock Off because it allows it to cripple stuff like Articuno and Clefairy for a teammate or 2HKO them later.
252+ SpA Wise Glasses Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefairy: 159-187 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Wise Glasses Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Articuno: 105-124 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It doesn’t have a lot of defensive utility, but I do think Ludicolo fits nicely as a breaker on VoltTurn or type spam compositions, and it seems way better than a lot of the mons currently in the C ranks.

:ss/golbat:
Golbat to C/C-

I don’t have nearly as much to say about the bat. It really shined against stall compositions, but the departure of Audino was a huge blow to stall and you don’t see the playstyle too much nowadays.

It checks Sawk and Thwackey in theory, but struggles to do so in practice. The former can Knock its Eviolite and exploit its Flying typing with Stone Edge later, and the latter can pressure it really easily by U-turning on it and making it take Stealth Rock damage.

It also suffers from a bit of 4MSS and just generally seems awkward to fit right now. Maybe C/C- is too harsh, but I just don’t see this as a B-rank mon in the current meta.
 
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viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
:ss/silvally-poison:
Silvally-Poison: A to A-
The role compression provided by Silvally-Poison is admittedly very useful. It has great stats, great coverage, and great utility moves like Defog and Parting Shot. Unfortunately, I feel like this role compression comes at the cost of Silvally-Poison being a master of none. It's definitely a very good offensive Defog user, but it suffers from 4MSS with this set. Without Flamethrower, it loses to setters like Alolan Sandslash. Without Surf, it gets walled and KO'd by setters like Rhydon. As an SD user, it doesn't have the same coverage that makes Silvally-Dark a major threat. Its Work Up set has the most potential, but it still suffers from 4MSS. Due to only being able to pick two coverage moves, it gets checked pretty hard by varying combinations of Pokémon. This can include Wishiwashi, Miltank, Altaria, Rhydon, Qwilfish, or Piloswine. Thus, while I see Silvally-Poison as a solid metagame presence, it's a Pokémon that many teams naturally take account for without even thinking about it.
:ss/poliwrath:
Poliwrath: B+ to B
Sadly, Specs Wrath feels like a set that's behind the times. With the rise of Pokémon like Clefairy, Throh, and Eldegoss, Poliwrath has trouble consistently breaking through. While it does have the coverage to theoretically succeed, this makes Poliwrath a bit of a prediction-reliant threat. Unlike other high-commitment Choice Specs breakers, Poliwrath doesn't hit hard enough with its STAB attacks to have an easy way out (especially considering the accuracy issues with its two STAB attacks). Poliwrath also faces high competition due to Basculin being a better choice in most situations. When it comes to other sets, defensive RestTalk is mostly outclassed by Throh, and SubBD is easily revenge killed by scarfers and priority users.
 
Some noms

:Sandslash-Alola: A+ to A. What this is doing at A+ alongside Tangela, Rhydon and Wishiwashi is beyond me. Not only it feels way less consistent and harder to fit than them but it also has a big 4MSS to do what it wants to. It does have its share of good matchups but doesn't deserve to be ranked alongside the 3 mons on A+.

:cinccino::kangaskhan: A to A-. I don't really get the hype with the Normals right now. Not only we are seeing a rise in bulky Ghosts like Cofagrigus and Gourgeist-Super but also contact punishing is at a very high right now to punish Voltturn teams due to Rotom being extremely annoying. Both Cinccino and Kangaskhan struggle to offer defensive utility outside of a Ghost-immunity that helps vs Rotom and Gourgeist if you predict well but other than that those aren't mons I'd call A ranks

:stunfisk: B+ to A-. Stunfisk is cracked right now because of how it handles Rotom+Skuntank consistently while also helping vs other threats like Silvally-Poison and punishing contact with its ability. This should be on the A ranks.

:falinks: UR to C-. Falinks is usually an inferior Sawk but it has a couple of traits that makes its Choice Band set be appealing in some builds. Defiant helps it capitalize on Defoggers (and also Qwilfish) to get to +2 and break on hazard stack teams. First Impression also lets it run CB while also retaining some revenge killing capabilities, being able to revenge faster threats like Thwackey, Jynx and Silvally-Dark, that a CB Sawk for example can't do.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1440976873

:mr. rime: UR to C. Mr. Rime is something that we used in ZUPL with decent success that just compresses a lot of functions on teams. You can for example use it as a Jynx check, Future Sight user, hazard removal and so on. Its STAB combination + Focus Blast makes it way harder to switch into than other usual Future Sight users like Musharna/Uxie/Exeggutor that can be scouted more easily. All in all, this isn't an amazing mon but it is viable enough to be in our Viability Rankings.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1424360360-fwiujyvdv6dmfmm8c2xjqcxi2x5ttqnpw (Franklin used it)
 

Corthius

diehard hockey fan
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nom nom nom

:Thwackey: A -> A+ Ofc im gonna nom pablo higher :>
Thwackey deserves to be higher on the VR in my opinion. While I don't like SD sets personally, Choice Band has caught my heart even more. It is a fantastic wallbreaker and lategame cleaner thanks to its access to the broken Knock Off + U-turn combo. Knock Off is especially amazing because of how valuable the items of Thwackey's checks are, e.g. Heavy-DutyBoots on Altaria and Rapidash, Eviolite on Tangela and Black Sludge on Skuntank. Grassy Terrain boosted Wood Hammer dents even the sturdiest resist after Stealth Rock damage and can force some 50/50s wheather the opposing pokemon clicks a recovery move or attacks. Grassy Terrain itself has good synergy with potential teammates like Skuntank and also somewhat helps w the recoil from Wood Hammer; on the other hand, healing the opposing pokemon can be really annoying, especially versus stuff that scouts with Protect.
While Grass is far from an amazing offensive typing as a breaker, as a cleaner it is really potent in the current metagame. A lot of fast threats like Rotom, Cincchino, Manectric, Jynx and Sawk are frail enough to get easily KOed with minimal chip damage.
All these traits make Thwacked worth of rising one sub rank higher.

:Poliwrath: B+ -> A-
I would rank Poliwrath in the same rank as Throh as they fill pretty much the same role besides little traits they don't share.
What Poliwrath has going for it, is it's unique ability to compress the water and fire resist on the slot throh would be, while only losing a bit of bulk and the ability to knock ghost types. Using Poliwrath over Throh is obviously team dependent but they have similar/nearly the same viability in my eyes. Ofc this is only talking about the RestTalk Cricle Throw set, but both can pull of different sets as well, but I find most if not all not nearly as consistent.
If anyone thinks Throh is remarkably better, I am fine with both rising.

:Gourgeist: (super) C+ -> B-/B
With pokemon like Sawk, Rhydon and Thwackey (going full circle here) being so good at the moment, Gourgeist-Super shines with a fantastic defensive typing, allowing it to safely check these threats. Running itemless also gives it the edge over Poltergeist Gourgeist-Small while still weakening the Knock Offs thrown at it. Recovery on Synthesis and utility in Will-O-Wisp and even Frisk only add to its viablity and make it deserve to be ranked higher.
 

OranBerryBlissey10

is a Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
:Tangela: A+ to A. What this is doing at A+ alongside Sandslash, Rhydon and Wishiwashi is beyond me. Not only it feels way less consistent and harder to fit than them but it also has a big 4MSS to do what it wants to. It does have its share of good matchups but doesn't deserve to be ranked alongside the 3 mons on A+. (this was intended as a meme but it's actually all accurate LOL)

:Ninetales: B to B+: It's genuinely hard rn to make a team that's not weak to tales. A lot of the good fire resists like rhydon and qwilfish get absolutely murked while the great speed tier and good matchup vs scarfers that aren't sawk make its life a lot easier. you're really only secure vs it by running one of Miltank, Altaria or Appletun, the latter of which is underused and alty is so abusable it's not even funny. I've devolved to using shuca qwil on a lot of teams (which is so much worse than helmet) simply bc the tales mu is horrible. Ninetales will always partially be a mu fish but rn it's not a bad one.

:Morpeko: B to B+: Probably a bit of a hot take because no one is using Morpeko but it's a genuine threat with the right support. It forces your opponent to play unnaturally around aura wheel's dual stab while also being able to clean up its own breaking due to the speed boost. Rhydon isn't a safe answer because of seed bomb while even tang doesn't like taking the dark wheel if knocked: 252 Atk Choice Band Morpeko Aura Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 141-167 (42.2 - 50%). There's no other mon above C that reliably answers morpeko long-term (pilo and gurd come the closest) (hey look another random mon that shiinotic walls). It has a great mu vs the best mon in the tier and doesn't have as much trouble getting on the field as its frailty suggests. (also has a 100% zupl winrate don't check amount of times used tho)

:Perrserker: B+ to A-: Massive threat and effective pivot, typing is useful and switchins are pretty limited and/or get weakened easily. Only real downside is being pretty slow for a breaker. If you look at the high ranked mons there's only a couple that it has a truly bad mu against (tangela not being one of them ftr lol it destroys noodly boi), only qwil comfortably takes hits. Perrserker also forms an amazing pivot core with pretty much every dark type (morpeko, darkvally, thievul, liepard all really appreciate it). To me, it's definitely better than some of the stuff in A- and its rank should reflect that.

:Sawk: S to A+: Pretty much unanimously considered the second best mon in the tier but idt it's really comparable to rotom in terms of splashability and effectiveness. Teams are adapting to it pretty well with the rise of fairies and the general presence of mons that give it a hard time like alty, fantom and qwil which require heavy predicting and can cause big momentum loss (even non-choiced sets can be scouted out and/or still lose). Obviously still an amazing mon and if people really want to make an S- or put rotom in S+ that's fine too but this doesn't deserve to be ranked with rotom imo.

mentioned noms I feel strongly about:
:ss/silvally-poison:
Silvally-Poison: A to A-
The role compression provided by Silvally-Poison is admittedly very useful. It has great stats, great coverage, and great utility moves like Defog and Parting Shot. Unfortunately, I feel like this role compression comes at the cost of Silvally-Poison being a master of none. It's definitely a very good offensive Defog user, but it suffers from 4MSS with this set. Without Flamethrower, it loses to setters like Alolan Sandslash. Without Surf, it gets walled and KO'd by setters like Rhydon. As an SD user, it doesn't have the same coverage that makes Silvally-Dark a major threat. Its Work Up set has the most potential, but it still suffers from 4MSS. Due to only being able to pick two coverage moves, it gets checked pretty hard by varying combinations of Pokémon. This can include Wishiwashi, Miltank, Altaria, Rhydon, Qwilfish, or Piloswine. Thus, while I see Silvally-Poison as a solid metagame presence, it's a Pokémon that many teams naturally take account for without even thinking about it.
The criticism about the defog set is pretty fair imo but I just hard disagree with the supposed 4MSS the work up set has. It's one of the most threatening setup sweepers in the tier with a lot of its answers being prone to chip. You really only need work up, multi, flame and one of pledge or surf (depending on whether you value hitting qwil harder or drowning coal more). Of the answers you mentioned, pilo is very prone to being weakened and rhydon is just not an answer. Depending on the set, qwil either can't do much back or gets chipped (and +1 pledge just 2hko's it), Wishi is not bad as an answer but +1 multi (or potentially pledge) is still hurting it. Miltank and Altaria are fair but poisonvally is still immune to their main form of progress so even those two are pretty shaky when at low health. So yeah since a mon is ranked by its best set I have to disagree.

:cinccino::kangaskhan: A to A-. I don't really get the hype with the Normals right now. Not only we are seeing a rise in bulky Ghosts like Cofagrigus and Gourgeist-Super but also contact punishing is at a very high right now to punish Voltturn teams due to Rotom being extremely annoying. Both Cinccino and Kangaskhan struggle to offer defensive utility outside of a Ghost-immunity that helps vs Rotom and Gourgeist if you predict well but other than that those aren't mons I'd call A ranks
Big agree, Cincinno did get better with the rises but A is overkill. Kanga also has to deal with Rhydon being everywhere, not much else to add. (except to ask pls stop using cinno unsets like scarf or pads)

I would've also nommed psyvally to B and pawn to C but all my replays are on obscure alts so rip that plan.
Thievul is also cracked and Articuno is bad but those noms weren't appreciated last time so i'll shut up for now, sorry not sorry if you disagree all my opinions are correct :)
 

viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
:ss/trevenant:
Trevenant: C+ to B
It's no secret that Trevenant has faced immense competition from Thwackey and Small Gourgeist, thus causing it to be mostly looked over. However, with a high Attack stat and amazing dual STAB attacks, Trevenant's upside as a slow but powerful breaker is there.

Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Poltergeist
- Toxic
- Rest

252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wishiwashi-School: 159-187 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 204-240 (57.6 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 301-355 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 262-310 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Cramorant: 316-373 (91.8 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Eldegoss: 213-252 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sandslash-Alola: 225-265 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alcremie: 228-268 (68.2 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 153-181 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 217-256 (64.9 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Miltank: 211-249 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tangela is one of the few Pokémon that doesn't get 2HKO'd by one of Trevenant's STAB attacks, but this is where kay and I have started experimenting with Toxic + Rest. Due to Trevenant's STAB moves being powerful enough to not warrant coverage, Toxic is used to bait and cripple Pokémon like Tangela. Rest is used to recover all health, including Wood Hammer recoil, and it pairs well with Natural Cure. Due to its typing, Trevenant is capable of using Rest against common defensive Pokémon like Rhydon, Eldegoss, and Miltank. Rest also helps it beat Tangela in some 1v1 scenarios, as Tangela's Knock Off can let it switch from Toxic to Rest.

Of course, the support is needed, as Trevenant's middling bulk makes it sometimes rely on pivots like Clefairy and Wishiwashi. With that being said, once on the field, there are very few things that can switch into it. Trevenant is overall quite a good breaker that's worth building around, as supporting it can lead to Trevenant dismantling defensive cores. Here's a brief replay that only gives a subtle glimpse into the impact Trevenant can have on a game, because I think Trevenant's optimization will only go up. Here is also another pretty mild replay that still shows how Trevenant's presence can sway a game.

Noms I Agree With:
:kangaskhan: A to A-
:perrserker: B+ to A-
:ninetales: B to B+
 
:ss/gourgeist-super:

C+ -> B-/B

Gourgeist-Super
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Synthesis
- Toxic / Wisp / Shadow Sneak / Fire Blast
(speed for 252 adamant rhydon can run less speed and more def)

been using gourgeist-super in a lot of my teams recently, it just has an amazing role compression for teams that want to go more offensive, checking rhydon, sawk, thwackey, throh, spinblocking eldegoss, checking others poltergeist if itemless and being a decent knock off absorber all in one slot is kinda nice. it has some super nice option for last slot, toxic is nice to cripple tangela/eldegoss/rapidash/miltank/articuno and a lot of others things that want to switch into supergeist. wisp is nice to help spinblock aloslash, and just better check physical threats in general. sneak is nice for scarf rotom and jynx which usually want to abuse gourgeist, and fire blast can be used on spikes teams to just nuke aloslash and prevent it to spin later.

gourgeist-super impact in a game is usually pretty good since sawk is something you don't want to let a free turn to but it'll allows to get a free turn out of scarf sawk, be wary of band sawk tho if rocks are up it'll still deal massive damages with knock off (can run 180+ def to always avoid 2HKO from knock off after rocks), its typing and bulk allows it to abuse some really common threats like creating a free turn on rhydon, absorbing grassy glide & wood hammer from thwackey. its 100 base attack alongside its two STAB with 100+ bp and decent offensive typing make it somehow hard to switch into even without attack evs. it force some really obvious and abusable pattern from your opponent side.

it still has some downside, its way more annoyed by toxic than tangela/eldegoss, the dark weakness is kinda annoying since that mean once it kill something thievul comes in and nuke something, its rotom weakness is sometime a pain esp if not shadow sneak, synthesis 8 pps is sometime really annoying

overall just a nice defensive glue thats not passive and has some real good role compression, hope to see more of it

 

Tuthur

formerly 0-7 in FCL
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C-rank cleaning!

:cradily: C+ -> C, Steel-types got more prominent, which are a pain for it. Also it struggles with other rising threats like Malamar and somewhat Aurorus.
:cryogonal: C+ -> C, idk why it is so far from Carbink, the other Hail setter and Beartic the hail abuser. idt the specially defensive set is good enough to keep it so high, even articuno which is its biggest competitor struggles in the current metagame.
:exeggutor: C -> UR, this mon is complete garbage. It is impossible to fit in teams, it has a terrible typing, is heavily outclassed by other special attackers, and whenever people try to use it in tours it loses.
:lapras: C -> UR, Specs is weak (can't break any special sponge lol), mostly outclassed by Arctovish, and weak to Stealth Rock. It just needs to much support to be worth using.
:hakamo-o: C- -> UR, complete garbage that shouldn't have been ranked, it doesn't even check well rotom and skuntank is bad anw.
:lilligant: C- -> UR, every team has at least 2 grass resists, this mon just needs to much support.

:pincurchin::shiinotic: I know those two just rose on VR but they are pure garbage. Electric terrain as a whole doesn't deserve more than C- and Shiinotic is just terrible.

:ivysaur: C+ -> B+, can we acknowledge Ivy is the goat and sun is great? Shiftry is already in B+ and sees almost 0 usage outside of sun, its partner in crime, Ivygoat, deserves the same rank.
:liepard: B -> B+, ditto. Sun is B+, Liepard is mandatory on sun.
:carbink: C- -> C, put it with beartic plz.

edit: :eldegoss: -> A, this mon is wonderful and it is being spammed recently because it is an incredible spinner and rotom and rhydon check. Most of what I said last time I nommed it up still stands. Long live to the Goss.
 
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