Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings v2 - Update @236

[5Dots]

~ Going to throw in some noms to spice up this thread, which has sleeping for a while ~
RISES​

NEW -> A+ / S
This nasty ninja bug is consistent every game it goes. As mentioned by Corthius, because of Speed Boost, Ninjask can out-offense anti-offense Pokemon like Scarf Sawk and Scarf Rotom, making it nearly impossible to revenge kill (unless you happen to not use Protect, which is just bad). Most of Ninjask’s counterplay therefore relies on physically defensive Pokemon like Coalossal, Piloswine, or Rhydon. All of these can be crippled by Toxic, hazards, and Knock Off, which isn’t hard to deal with. While it does require steady hazard removal, most of the Defoggers last long enough for Ninjask to sweep.

NEW -> A
A Stealth Rock setter that has reliable recovery, can spin block, has a volt switch immunity? It’s a pretty welcoming sight. 85/110/75 Its bulk makes it good enough that it can consistently check what it’s supposed to (Sawk, Gurdurr, Rhydon, Rapidash), and has nice offensive presence thanks to its decent base 100 SpA (offensive sets may even see use). While it performs worse against all Rotom variants and Dark-types like Thievul, Silvally-Dark, and Shiftry due to its additional Ghost-typing, in return it actually can do well against most Stealth Rock setters like Rhydon, other Stunfisk, Uxie, and Alolan Dugtrio. Palossand is a neat defensive piece in the meta and will fit well on more defensive builds.

C -> C+
It’s a bit contradictory to have Pincurchin rise but not Swoobat. While I understand Drifblim and other Electric Terrain sweepers are a lot more specialized to the point of mostly fitting in dedicated Electric Terrain teams, Swoobat has seen some decent, legitamate tour success (even if it is indeed rare). Swoobat can be really annoying to deal with considering that it’s easier said than done to keep Dark-types and revenge killers healthy in practice. Unlike the other terrain sweepers, Swoobat is more immediately threatening since it can boost to +2 to all of its stats in one move rather than two, which subsequently makes it harder to revenge kill and threaten away. Most phazers are also either overwhelmed by Stored Power’s power (Throh and Poliwrath), have a lot of difficulty using it as a fourth move (Articuno, Altaria), or are uncommon sights in general (Cryogonal).

C+ -> B-
Grass spam BO and offense teams have worked well for me, and Trevenant is no exception to this. “But why use this over Gourgeist-S”? Well, first, it hits MUCH harder than Gourgeist-S. It can cleanly 2HKO Altaria after Rocks and OHKO most Silvally formes after Rocks, something Gourgeist-S wishes it could do. Unlike Gourgeist-S, it has a much easier time switching into Stunfisk and Poliwrath thanks to Natural Cure, which means it’s not as reliant on a cleric as Gourgeist-S is and gives it more longevity in some instances. There’s also been a general rise in status users like Clefairy, Pyukumuku, and Sableye, which further helps its case. Ninjask and Palossand being around is anticipated to make more teams bulkier, which is what Trevenant enjoys capitalizing on.
UR -> C
Although I’ve brought up Carracosta before in a nom, I think there’s a few key changes where it benefits from the current meta. First, Grass-types like Thwackey have become less common, allowing it to sweep more easily. Second and more importantly, Ninjask existing makes outoffensing it extremely problematic. Kangaskhan’s Fake Out can be blocked by Protect, Gurdurr and Thwackey’s Grassy Glides are 4x resisted (meaning even after Stealth Rock, it’s not going to do much damage), and Ninjask is able to pick up a lot of free KOes and momentum after a boost as a result. Carracosta is one of the very few Pokemon that can feasibly revenge kill it with Aqua Jet, as Ninjask can’t block it off with Protect. High defense and a terrific Rock-typing allows it to reliably set up on Ninjask and inflict large amounts of damage or sweep. In addition, Carracosta can take advantage of both Scarf Manectric and Rotom looking to revenge kill it, as +2 LO-boosted Aqua Jet can KO them after a round of Rocks, which is especially helpful considering how difficult it is to keep off said hazard throughout the whole game. While Carracosta has been quite hard to fit on a team due to the opportunity cost over other sweepers and Water-types, the priority, decrease in Grass-types, and Ninjask’s drop has given it enough merit to make it ranked and be used on a team.

Replay

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1577228676 (Not really a good replay, but it shows Costa can easily dismantle teams given a free turn)

DROPS​

S -> A+
Sawk is still one of the best breakers in the tier with its speed, power, coverage, and customizability in item slot. The last part, however, is also what brings it down a notch. While it is still very strong with a Choice Scarf, hence why this set is the most common, it struggles to break through especially bulky walls like Tangela and Sableye. Even tanks like Gurdurr and other walls like Altaria can mess with its wallbreaking capabilities, especially when they’re paired together. There’s also faster scarf users like Rotom and Manectric that can whittle it down quickly into Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball range, which limits its time on the field and subsequently forces it out. Choice Band sets do better at breaking down bulkier builds but now face the problems against more offensive builds, where it can now be outpaced by foes like Jynx, Silvallies, and Rotom. Black Belt sets are really good at luring in and dealing heavy damage to defensive teams, and alleviates the prediction reliant nature of Choice sets. Similarly to Band sets, they miss out on the speed Scarf provides. Lastly, Ninjask and Sableye existing makes its job almost impossible. Don’t get me wrong, Sawk is still unmatched at what it does, but I think the dilemma of choosing which sets to run and the aforementioned bug and ghosts.

A- -> B+
While Alolan Dugtrio continues to be an effective revenge killer, SubToxic staller, and a reasonable offensive Stealth Rock user, a lot of the defensive qualities in a Steel-type are not present. It can block Rotom’s Volt Switch, but a bad prediction can cause it to get 2HKOed by Shadow Ball, and OHKOed by a lot of super effective and strong neutral attacks like Thwackey’s Banded Grassy Glide, Gurdurr’s Mach Punch, and Kangaskhan’s Earthquake. If Dugtrio-Alola can’t OHKO anything that is in front of it, it’s likely going to lose the matchup unless it gets lucky with Iron Head flinches. Said defensive stats cause it to be a much more unreliable check to Alcremie. Once it takes damage, it’s very hard for it to regain health back since it doesn’t tend to stay in for very long periods of time. It’s so frail that Ninjask can freely 2HKO it with Acrobatics, so it can’t even be a reliable check to it.

B -> B–
The reason why Ninetales is a lot worse than Rapidash is due to being stuck with Flash Fire, lacking reliable recovery, and the worse Speed tier. Ninetales even lacks moves like Play Rough to threaten out Altaria! While it has Energy Ball and SpA to more consistently threaten out Pokemon like Qwilfish and Rhydon, Ninetales still has less general utility Rapidash and is still greatly dependent on a Nasty Plot boost to be threatening. To compare and contrast, Rapidash can function as a revenge killer and status spreader with both Toxic and Flame Body at any point in the game. Ninetales can try revenge killing, but without the Speed tier and recovery, the health it loses at any point in the game will permanently be lost. This limits it to becoming a late-game sweeper. Speaking of sweeping, even at +2, Pokemon like Altaria (assuming it hasn’t been significantly chipped away) and Thick Fat Miltank can come in and be a complete stop to it. Ninetales has been seeing waning usage for a considerable amount of time in both tours and on the ladder, which reflects its drop.

 

[viet noa]

Ninjask: UR to ZUBL
Corthius made me banpilled and now I want Ninjask outta here. It has literally zero offensive counterplay outside of Ice Shard users, because our tier's wallbreakers just aren't bulky enough to handle an onslaught of U-Turns, Acrobatics, and Dual Wingbeats.


Palossand: UR to A+
Being able to very consistently check two of the most powerful physical attackers in the meta, Klinklang and Sawk, makes Palossand an incredibly useful Pokemon. It's not just them, though ~ Gurdurr, Rhydon, Qwilfish, Silvally-Poison, and SD Gapidash all have to give it lots of respect. That role compression, alongside its ability to spread status and set up hazards, vastly improves certain defensive cores. For example, it's much better than Stunfisk in the great Miltank + Articuno core, because of its ability to counter Sawk alongside Klinklang. Palossand provides a fantastic defensive backbone ~ it has great stats, typing, and most of all, longevity. Very few ZU Pokemon can say the same, and thus, Palossand's exciting return to ZU will do wonders for making this tier more balanced.


Lilligant: C- to B
Bossaru's dominance over ladder deserves insane amounts of credit, because I think they've put us all onto Lilligant. I was a doubter, but I was proven wrong. It's become clear that with enough boosts, Lilligant gets so incredibly strong that it can spend a whole game spamming Petal Dance. Lilligant really abuses the fact that many of our top-tier Grass resists such as Klinklang, Tangela, Rapidash, don't have a massive amount of special bulk. Even the bulkiest of resists, like Articuno and Altaria, can get worn down through Sleep and boosted Nature Powers (Tri Attacks). Lilligant is still a high-risk, high-reward Pokemon. Teams loaded with Grass resists, as well as teams with good offensive counterplay, can prevent Lilligant from setting up too many Quiver Dances. Still, Lilligant is one of the most respectable sweepers in ZU.


Silvally-Poison: A to A-
I've been very on-the-fence about Silvally-Poison, but I think there are some factors that limit it from being a top-level Pokemon in this new meta. Silvally-Dark and Silvally-Fighting have always given it a run for its money, but people are also experimenting with other Silvally formes. There's been rumblings of Silvally-Grass's ability to bait & punish Articuno with SD Rock Slide, Silvally-Water's role compression as a special attacking pivot, and Silvally-Psychic's type synergy in its coverage attacks. Furthermore, with Palossand being a near counter to it, the meta isn't looking as great for it as before.

Other Noms:
up to B
The stars are starting to align for Galarian Stunfisk, once thought to be borderline UR. Being the hardest possible counter to Klinklang helps a ton, but the reduced usage of Thwackey goes a long way towards helping it actually take advantage of its cracked typing.
up to B-
It's very inconsistent, but for its insane amount of utility on offensive builds alone, it deserves a spot in the B tiers. It's especially fantastic on setup spam teams.
down to B- or C+
I feel like this is partially my fault, because ever since I nommed it to A tier a year ago, its usage has completely fallen off a cliff. Sorry for jinxing it.
down to C
Rotom-Fan sucks.

 

[Corthius]

Electivire from UR to C. Decent speed, certain advantages such as perfect coverage. Capable of decent mixed wallbreaking or band power. Less reliable than Raichu, but arguably far better movepool. Ice Punch, Earthquake, Flamethrower, etc. All good options. Capable of pivoting and passable speed tier. Definitely worth considering, imo. Had a lot of fun using this one.

Don't forget to add replays for unranked pokemon like the op says!


A/A+ (50/50)
I think it is pretty hard to judge Ninjask's viability because of how warping it will be in terms of what falls out of favor and what becomes more popular but for current standards I think it deserves to be a top threat. What keeps it from being S rank is the fact that I realized that I was too quick on dumping the idea that Stealth Rock will be a big issue for it. You either invest A LOT in removing them (Rotom is a natural fit which helps but there are really annoying matchups for it like Yawn Uxie/Galarian Stunfisk which makes removing hazards either nearly impossible or you need a second dedicated remover which takes up quite some space. You do kinda make up for it with Ninjask taking the role of speed control and breaker, but its notable. So basically Ninjask, while incredible, isn't as splashable in my eyes as the other S ranks and other A+ pokemon.
I still think this pokemon makes you resort to more niche pokemon like Coalossal.

A-/A (70/30)
Don't get me wrong, I absolutly adore Palossand's addition to the tier. A Ground type with recovery? Sign me in! Palossand also has other incredible traits to offer; It is arguably one of the best Sawk switchins in the tier right now, and generally a really solid physical walls that stands in the way of Klinklang, Lycanroc-Midnight and the newly dropped Ninjask too.
But it also has some notable downsides I noticed when using it, some are the reason that Runerigus is also not being picked more like your Ground type being not able to wall Skunktank nor Rotom, making these two matchups really annoying to prepare for (at least for me). It also feels like it has major 4MSS in my eyes; You kinda want both STABs to check what you want as effective as possible, Stealth Rock and healing, but without Toxic you will always lose to pretty much every defogger that isn't Rotom which cripples the BO it fits on so well. I think Palossand is a solid pokemon but it sometimes feels a bit awkward to build around. A good partner I've used is Clefable; they synergize so well.

C/C+ (35/65)
So pretty much I can only echo what I already said in the NP post I made some time ago and what 5Dots already mentioned. Especially the incline of Thwackey usage feels really good for it (even tho you can beat that with some smart play) and now Ninjask being a good punishment to Grass types switching into Carracosta. It's also a really good switching to the bugger.
I don't have much to add tbh. Cool pokemon.

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B (100)
Something I don't agree with is dropping Ninetales. Weirdly enough, it benefits from Rapidash being so common because some teams are actually really weak to Fire Grass coverage with relying on Qwilfish and/or Rhydon for their Fire resists. Altaria is annoying, yes but we out here running Abomasnow + Weather Ball.
I don't think it should rise at all, but it does serve a good 'anti meta' threat that falls under the radar of some teams.

down to C
Rotom-Fan sucks.

I will only agree with this if Ninjask gets banned; otherwise it is a lot better into the bug because of its superior bulk. It won't become meta but as long as Ninjask is here maybe it has some sort of niche?

I'm looking forward to other noms!

 

[BaitWiz]

First time ever doing one of these, but wanted to try it out and give some thoughts~

A+/S

Ninjask's continuous pressure, game to game consistency, and unmatchable speed make for one annoying cicada. After a swords dance boost very little wants to take acrobatics into UTurn. Its no-item set is stunningly effective and its HDB set, while slightly weaker and notably less consistent, requires significantly less support. However, Ninjask has a few notable weaknesses that can be exploited in the tier. It has an extreme distaste for rocks and steels (of which there are several) and hates on-contact effects, especially with its HDB set. Burns limit how much firepower it puts out while paralysis neuters it for the rest of the game.
Its role compression acting as both a cleaner and breaker is notable and its speed control is literally unmatchable. An absolute demon that you must account for in the builder.

A/A+

Our new resident sand castle has been making waves as a solid check to the tier's many rock, steel, poison, and fighting types with its unique defensive profile and recovery. Having usable offensive stats also mean it's a threat in its own right, firing off powerful shadow balls and occasionally tagging the mons it's checking with a burn from scorching sands. Even if it's on defense it still always plays offense with stealth rocks. It also pairs extremely well with Articuno and can trade some of its usefulness against fighting types with its usual Colbur Berry to punish mons like Ninjask harder with a rocky helmet.

B+ -> A-

Appletun's found a friend in Ninjask's recent drop as a mon that can punish resists to Ninjask's uturning onslaught. It also checks the returning Palossand extremely well due to its respectable natural bulk and continues to threaten out the likes of G-Stunfisk, A-Dugtrio, and Rotom without much effort, though it does have to be wary of Trick from the latter. Specially bulky sets can take on every special attack in the game that isn't boosted while offensive sets create large gaps for its teammates to take advantage of.
It does still have to be wary of Alcremie and anything that can hit it hard on its defensively weak side gives it a run for its money. It's also extremely slow, meaning that it must tank through any attack that comes its way before firing back, making it a liability at times.

C- -> C

Silvally-Water is a unique beneficiary of the additions of both Ninjask and Palossand to the tier, being a great partner for the former and a solid check to the latter. It deals with many ice types very well and can threaten out many threats with its combination of BoltBeam and Multi-Attack. Its main issue is 4mss, as it usually wants to fit boltbeam, its stabs, a turn move, and defog onto its sets and whichever one it's missing can be felt hard in a game to game basis.

 

[JdRDMS]

Sawk: S -> A+
Gonna have to agree on this dropping. Don't get me wrong, it's still very good, but it just isn't good enough to be S. Most of the reasons have been brought up above in 5Dots's post, but we also have Palossand, which Sawk is pretty much useless against.

Best Case Scenario

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Palossand: 154-182 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The other main problem is that Sawk really wants both the extra Speed from Choice Scarf, and the extra power from Choice Band, in addition to the ability to pick moves granted by Expert Belt. Choice Scarf is still relatively strong on its own, but as 5Dots brought up, it can struggle against more defensive mons. Meanwhile, Choice Band's Speed tier of 298 means it gets outpaced by quite a few common mons, which hinders its matchup against more offensive teams. Again, don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like about Sawk. It's a great blend of speed, power, and coverage. However, it's just not as good as the other two S-Rank mons, hence why I think it deserves a drop.


Crustle: B- -> B
I know Palossand just dropped, but these two really don't compete with each other. Crustle is more of an offensive setter, while Palossand is more for balance and defensive teams. Anyway, Crustle is actually pretty good as a suicide lead. It's got Sturdy as it's ability, meaning the only way it won't get Rocks up is through a strong multi-hit move, or through a flinch+strong move. And with 70/125 physical bulk, it'll likely tank most physical moves thrown at it, unless they're super effective. Even its 70/75 special bulk isn't terrible. Once it gets Rocks up, it can use Shell Smash, its 105 Attack stat, and Stone Edge + Knock Off coverage to make a nice early dent in teams. And because of said 105 base Attack and its two strong moves (it can also run X-Scissor if you prefer), it can do decent damage without using Shell Smash if it needs to. Alternatively, you can run Spikes over Shell Smash to get some hazard stack. And as its item, it can hold a Custap Berry, so it can get another move off right before it goes down (last month only 8% of Crustle used Custap Berry, but it's a really good item for it. It makes more sense than the HDB, White Herb, or Choice Band that got more usage). Plus, it's main con, low Speed (45), is offset by being doubled from Shell Smash, giving it a Speed stat of 578.

Now, on the analysis, the suicide lead set is listed under "Other Options." The main set is a Shell Smash cleaner. I haven't tried it myself, and there are better cleaners to use, but I can see the appeal of this set. Plus it gives Crustle another set, and set variety is always a strong point (though the suicide lead set really should be a main set on the analysis). Like I said, I haven't tried the cleaner set, but even on just the lead set, I think Crustle deserves a rise to B. It's got good coverage, good stats, and multiple sets. I feel like it's definitely quite a bit better than the rest of B-.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Nom Rises:
A+ > S: The variability in both utility and sheer walling this cow is capable of is fantastic. Moooooving the cattle to S rank would reflect both how vital it is in most builds while highlighting the success of its versatility. If you aren't aware what I'm referencing, I'm talking about the felxability between Stealth Rock and Heal Bell, Thick Fat and Sap Sipper, and even lure offensive / fast spreads to fit on your team. It's a low-steak mon with high rewards in the builder and with good plays.

A > A+: Too good of a wall with a ton of utility. I'd say it's on par with Articuno, maybe even better.

A > A+: The premier Ground-type, any defensive core is at risk without Stunfisk. Checking Klinklang, Rotom, Silvally-Poison, and most importantly Skuntank in one slot is vital for a wall.

A- > A: Our best stallbreaker, Skuntank might even be justified at A+. The insane power it has with its coverage and NP makes it so worthwhile, and I love the minute yet valuable customization it has a fourth move; my heart's still with Sucker Punch.

A- > A: While Uxie might not be the most justified on builds over other walls, there's two factors that I think make it on par with Alolan Persian in the A rank: its Psychic resist and set-versatility. For starters, a lot of cores are forgoing a wall that resists Psychic, which is dangerous if say the answer is Klinklang or Skuntank and they get bopped before they can sweep. This point is more of a meta trend realization. The next point is in regards to the shear of sets Uxie runs; from a simple defensive pivot set to an unexpected Trick Choice Scarf, it's hard to say in a tour-setting what Uxie is going to be capable of. Sitting it in the middle of the A ranks shows this power.

B > A-: Same nom as before, I still think Sableye is a top-of-the-meta wall to rely on. Again, a defensive answer to Psychic-type attacks is nice, and so is the priority to take down random setup sweepers.

B > B+: Egg is one of our strongest special attackers and again I think Psychic-types are killing it atm. It's a little too vulnerable defensively and reliant on landing Sleep Powder to make progress for a higher jump.

B- > B: The Steel-typing is a lot rarer and I enjoy the Toxic immunity. Really it's the latter I like, as so many of our walls are reliant on Toxic on making progress. The catch is that Gunfisk can't Toxic itself, but it's not like options like Pain Split, Snap Trap, and Yawn are the worst consolation prizes. Anyways, I see this mon as a less-splashable sidegrade to the original, so being below par would be off.

C- > B-: A big jump, Beheeyem is really powerful versus most defensive cores, and a Colbur Berry is enough security for a +2 Analytic Thunder Bolt to dent most Dark-types. Its a cool stallbreaker that adds another Fighting resist to the team if necessary; it's not on par with Shuckle.

Nom Drops:

S > A+: Not as game-ending deadly of a threat as maybe we once thought, Sawk is good but not that good. Although it's a great breaker, it's one dimensional. Teams can explore a slew of breakers that can do its job or better; these traits apply somewhat to the Choice Scarf set too but that role still feels somewhat uncontested, at least on the physical side; Rotom is probs still a better revenge killer.

A+ > A-
A+ > A-: Both of these Ice-types were over-hyped. They have the purposes but they don't feel right in A+. If anything, Froslass could be A and Jynx below it as the former is way more reliable, versatile, and faster. Still A- looks right for them both.

A+ > B+: Hot take: Rhydon isn't that good anymore. Its lack of Leftovers recovery and relevant weaknesses are harder to justify when we have Stunfisk and Palossand that are way less exploitable in most circumstances. I wouldn't put Rhydon above Piloswine and Alolan Dugtrio, so B+ sounds right. Too many walls and ways to break Rhydon while it lacks breaking opportunities itself in most matchups.

A- > B: Kangaskhan received a new counter with Palossand and now I think its best bet is as a lure. Unfortunately, long are the days of KangaSpikes and Silvally-Ground VoltTurns where Kangaskhan's revenge killing + wallbreaking combo was revered. Now, it's either a liability or a gimick; build at your own risk; don't expect too much out of it without major support for all the walls that outstall it.

Thats all for now may edit with more ideas below. I kinda wanna get an update out sometime mid-ZUPL. Feel free to post your own thoughts and critiques!

 

[BaitWiz]

Heya, back again for some more thoughts on tons of mons as we watch ZUPL continue to develop. Not going to include my thoughts on my old noms (outside of Appletun), as I still agree with all of them.


Rises

A+ -> S-/S

Miltank has truly been making a name for itself as it's found itself on more and more teams throughout ZUPL, and it's easy to see why. Being able to serve as a stop gap for the likes of Gourgeist and Tangela and providing invaluable cleric support is invaluable to its team and breaking it is often a nightmarish task for the opponent due to its ease of recovery with milk drink. It can also use its excellent base 100 speed to forego some bulk in exchange for outspeeding nearly the entire tier, something that works in its advantage when providing one final Heal Bell, putting on offensive pressure with Seismic Toss, or just for trying to scout while staying healthy with Milk Drink.

A -> A+

I can't agree with Ho3n more here - Altaria is an incredibly splashable defensive piece that can absorb status, provide cleric/defog support, and spread toxic - all while stonewalling almost every grass type in the tier and giving hell to any water type foolish enough to not run ice coverage. It also finds itself doing well against non SD variants of Qwilfish and Silvally Poison, two mons that can be rough for most teams to deal with otherwise.

B+ -> A-

Gurdurr has been catching the eye of a few different players as a potent status absorber and eviolite abuser, serving as a potent check to many of the tier's stealth rockers. It's also able to trade its priority for defog if it really wants to (don't ask me how it gets defog) and stand as a bulwark against a heavy majority of the tier's physical attackers. It also has a respectable natural 105 base attack, meaning that its easily clickable knock off tends to leave a dent.

B- -> B+

After all of my time using this mon, I'm shocked to see it floating just above the C tier. While its lack of toxic is painfully apparent, being able to spread paralysis or create pressure with Yawn is still nice. Its steel/ground typing is undeniably solid and it is surprisingly resliant, standing up to both klang and rotom continuously (though it hates being tricked by the latter). Not having good physical steel STAB definitely still places it a step below the A tier, but make no mistake - this regional variant is solid as steel and shouldn't be going anywhere anytime soon.

C- -> B-

Simply put, I don't think Lilligant is getting the respect it deserves. While it can find itself walled by a few of the tier's top mons (Altaria, Klang, and Miltank, just to name a few), it finds a niche as a mon able to absolutely eviscerate teams once those particular mons are gone or put to sleep. I still don't think it's anywhere near being a metagame stable since its coverage is pretty lackluster and nature power being affected by terrains can make pretty easy to abuse at times, though picking up tbolt on electric terrain can be pretty scary.

B+ -> A

I am going to want to create a bigger post on the big Apple soon(ish), so stay tuned for that. I think this mon is quite good, though, and I can't wait to share why soon.


Drops

S -> A+

At this point it's pretty undeniable - Sawk's excellence in the tier has been noteworthy, but it just isn't at the same level as the rest of the mons in the S tier. Rotom and Klang are invaluable on a game to game basis, and while scarf Sawk can at times make things happen it often finds itself prediction reliant to an extreme, an issue that doesn't plague Klang and Rotom to nearly the same degree. Sawk is still a threat within the tier and with prediction can demolish teams, but the reality is that the metagame has shifted against its reign at the top.

A+ -> A

Froslass is a phenomenal offensive mon with its brutal combo of Poltergeist and Triple Axel. The problem is the burden it places on the rest of its team - Potentially inviting in the likes of Klang and Miltank isn't exactly ideal for a mon that you want to be an offensive breaker, and Triple Axel's lackluster consistency can at times be devastating. Not being able to remove items is also a major issue since Eviolite is so core to many mons in the tier and Froslass can struggle to get in more than once or twice a game without some seriously strong prediction.

A+ -> A-

Rhydon seems to continually find itself as being more and more of a liability to its team long-term due to its lack of recovery, often making it feel worse than the other three premier ground types; Palossand, Stunfisk, and Gunfisk. Being quad weak to grass and water doesn't help matters, especially once its Eviolite is gone. It still is an absolute menace offensively, but its role serving as part of a defensive backbone seems to be slowly dwindling away.

B- -> C+

I think that Ninjask was one of the only reasons to ever use this over normal Rotom. It's decent in its own right with its extra bulk, but the loss of speed and ghost stab really hurts when you don't want to be taking too many hits to begin with and its electric/flying STAB invites mons like Stunfisk, Gunfisk, Alodugtrio, and Rhydon in too easily. It's also noteworthy that Rotom-Fan can struggle against Palossand with its standard set while normal Rotom can outright threaten physically defensive variants if they're under 70% or just with good prediction.

 

[BaitWiz]

image credits

Welcome to my first in-depth post on a Pokémon I've greatly enjoyed using as of recent - Appletun! I feel that this big apple is one of the premier grass mons in the tier and I wish to present three sets showing why.

Set 1 - Specs

Specs

Appletun @ Choice Specs
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Apple Acid
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Giga Drain / Recover

Choice Specs is Appletun's most prediction reliant set, but also the most immediately impactful. Most things that can take a Draco Meteor don't like taking an Apple Acid, and vice versa (as shown below). Articuno tends to be a major problem for Appletun on a general basis, but most other mons don't enjoy getting hit by these powerful attacks, which OHKO or two hit almost everything in the tier if predicted properly. Appletun's natural bulk also helps it work with its pitiful speed tier to keep up offensive pressure after the initial attack if it opts for Apple Acid while its nuclear Draco bombs tend to not require further follow up before Apple leaves the field.

Attacking

252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 108 SpD Miltank: 339-399 (86 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 393-463 (117.6 - 138.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rapidash: 348-411 (104.1 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 337-397 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

(Remember, Apple Acid applies -1 SpDef after every hit so these calcs can be initially misleading)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Apple Acid vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alcremie: 153-180 (45.8 - 53.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Apple Acid vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Uxie: 144-169 (40.6 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Apple Acid vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cryogonal: 138-163 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Apple Acid vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 112-133 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO

Many traditionally specially defensive mons that teams rely on to blanket check special attackers tend to buckle to one of Apple's STABs - specially defensive Altaria, Stunfisk, and Gunfisk just to name a few. Anything without defensive investment or resists tends to get cold OHKO'd - from the tier's premier speed demons in Sawk and Rotom to breakers like Skuntank and offensive Qwilfish. It can also switch into the tier's several water, grass, electric, and ground moves, taking two hits with its natural bulk before firing off its devastating attacks. In addition, it can often be brought in through a safe VSwitch/UTurn or a sac, forcing the opponent into an uncomfortable guessing game.


Set 2 - Specially Defensive

Specially Defensive

Appletun @ Leftovers / Eject Pack
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Draco Meteor
- Apple Acid
- Leech Seed

Specially Defensive Appletun is the most 'standard' Appletun set and is the only set of the three I'll be featuring here today that stands a chance against any variants of Apple's nemesis, Articuno. This set blanket checks most unboosted special attacks in the tier and can even withstand a boosted attack or two in a pinch. Apple's Draco Meteors continue to terrify its targets, though the power difference between specs and no specs is quite noticable. Leftovers tends to be preferred for the additional recovery, though Eject Pack does have its moments in combination with Draco Meteor, creating momentum for its team.

Defending

252 SpA Rotom Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Appletun: 88-105 (20.8 - 24.8%) -- 92.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Articuno Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Appletun: 124-148 (29.3 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Articuno U-turn vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Appletun: 106-126 (25 - 29.7%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tangela Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Appletun: 108-128 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- 4.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Altaria Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Appletun: 150-176 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Silvally-Water Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Appletun: 136-160 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Appletun: 77-91 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Froslass Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Appletun: 180-216 (42.5 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Uxie Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Appletun: 109-129 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio-Alola Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Appletun: 169-200 (39.9 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This Apple set laughs in the face of Stunfisk, Gunfisk, and Palossand, helping its team against some of the tier's permier stealth rockers. It also kills Rhydon outright after some chip, though it does trade half of its health to do so with the given spread. You can opt to sacrifice some Special Defense EVs to outspeed specific key mons - 84 speed EVS allow you to outspeed 0 speed Rhydon, for example. The loss of special bulk is quite noticable, however, and I've found that it typically isn't worth it in the long run.

Set 3 - Physically Defensive

Physically Defensive

Appletun @ Leftovers / Eject Pack
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Apple Acid
- Body Press
- Recover
- Leech Seed / Draco Meteor / Protect

Welcome to the set that I've seen the least while playing ZU - Physically Defensive Apple! This particular set covers several of the physical attackers from the tier but finds itself at its weakest against almost every single ice type in the tier unless it gets the first hit. In exchange, however, you get a uniquely equipped Apple, able to deal with a lot of the tier's usual physical attackers that tend to give its other sets quite a bit of misery.

Defending

+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 186-222 (43.9 - 52.4%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Appletun Body Press vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 124-146 (43.3 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 159-187 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 138-164 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 4.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Rhydon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 136-162 (32.1 - 38.2%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 158-186 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- 20.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Morpeko-Hangry Aura Wheel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 180-213 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gourgeist-Small Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 112-133 (26.4 - 31.4%) -- 21.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Body Press gives Apple a tool to make progress against Klang and Miltank, two mons that its STABs can struggle against, especially when uninvested. It also does some nice damage to the tier's ice, steel, rock, and dark types, of which there are several. Its stabs continue to help in making progress against the mons it's defending against while Recover keeps it in tip top shape. Unfortunately you have to forgo one of Draco Meteor or Leech Seed at minimum on this set, which Apple loves having. Protect is a nice option to benefit from leftovers and the occasional Grassy Terrain, but missing *both* Draco and Leech Seed is quite painful. The other three moves are nearly mandatory for this set to properly function, so forgoing them is often out of the question.


General Notes

Appletun absolutely sits on K-Rapidash with all three of its sets, barely taking 20% from the most offensive variants of the horse.
Manectric hates Appletun - It barely does any damage to it and Switcheroo isn't the cleanest option since giving Appletun Specs means you'll have to deal with Appletun's Specs boosted attacks for the rest of the game.
Appletun is capable of taking on the tier's several water, grass, fire, and electric type mons with ease due to its uniquely powerful Grass/Dragon typing and excellent ability in Thick Fat, providing plenty of room for it to switch in and wreack havoc.

At risk of stating the obvious, ice types tend to give Appletun quite a bit of hell. Physical Froslass and Jynx are both problematic - The former has a chance to bust even physically defensive Apple open in one turn with Triple Axel if all three hits connect while the latter can put Apple to sleep, setup for free, and then sweep, forcing the player on defense into an incredibly uncomfortable situation.
Articuno is a pain for Appletun - With Freeze Dry, U-Turn, Toxic, and the occasional Brave Bird all at its arsenal, Articuno has tools aplenty to shut down Appletun.
Getting tricked a scarf is one of the last things Apple wants - one of the slowest mons in the tier being limited on what it can do is far from ideal when it doesn't even gain firepower in exchange.
Finally, Apple's single biggest thorn, one that a few other walls share - Toxic. There is *nothing* Appletun hates more than getting hit with Toxic, severely limiting its longevity. Fortunately, there are several clerics in the tier to assist in this particular issue.


Conclusion

Appletun's offensive prowress often matches and even exceeds even mons in the A+ tier like Froslass and Sawk when boosted by Specs, though its speed often ends up being a hinderence to its overall gameplan. As a specially defensive mon, Appletun blanket checks a large chunk of the metagame much like Miltank and Persian-A - It even tends to outperform the latter at sheer walling capability in exchange for some momentum. Lastly, its physically defensive set is uniquely equipped - Being able to cover Klang and Sawk in one slot is no mean feat, beating out Uxie in sheer physical walling capability, though once again at the cost of momentum. All three of these sets lack overlapping checks outside of the aforementioned ice types, meaning the apple must be properly scouted before being dealt with. Lastly, Leech Seed is a wonderfully spammable move for Appletun - Taxing many of its switch ins while gaining some health back for itself and its teammates is never a bad thing. This trio of sets Apple can run and its effectiveness with each particular set places it solidly into the A tier.

 

[Tuthur]

We are currently voting on an update. Locking the thread until the results are out!

 

[Tuthur]

VR update!
Rises
Palossand from A- to A
Silvally-Dark from A- to A
Skuntank from A- to A
Morpeko from B+ to A-
Exeggutor from B to B+
Lycanroc-Midnight from B to B+
Stunfisk-Galar from B- to B
Abomasnow from C+ to B-
Cryogonal from C+ to B-
Lunatone from C+ to B
Raichu from C+ to B-
Bouffalant from C to C+
Ludicolo from C to C+
Swoobat from C to C+
Beheeyem from C- to C+
Lilligant from C- to B-
Roselia from C- to C+
Silvally-Water from C- to C
Carracosta from UR to C
Mawile from UR to C
Pawniard from UR to C
Silvally-Grass from UR to C

Drops
Sawk from S to A+
Alcremie from A+ to A
Rhydon from A+ to A
Alolan Persian from A to A-
Clefairy from A- to B+
Kangaskhan from A- to B
Piloswine from A- to B+
Shiftry from B+ to B
Throh from B+ to B
Manectric from B to B-
Ninetales from B to B-
Pyukumuku from B to C+
Spiritomb from B to C+
Golbat from B- to C+
Musharna from B- to C+
Hattrem from C+ to C
Shiinotic from C+ to C
Silvally-Psychic from C to C-

Here are some explanations for some of them.
Palossand is a premier Ground-type in the tier thanks to its access to reliable recovery and ability to check two of the most threatening attackers in the tier in Klinklang and Sawk. The tier is also currently quite turned towards bulkier teams where Rhydon and Piloswine don't fit well due to their lack of recovery. As a result, Palossand rose in the VR while Rhydon and Piloswine dropped. A lot of teams having a blanket counter to Sawk also made it dropped as it can't get as much progress as it used to make.

Alcremie struggles to sweep in the current metagame. Shift Gear + Toxic Klinklang is everywhere and Qwilfish and Skuntank have been on the rise. The high number of Toxic users also means non Rest sets struggle to break past defensive cores, as Aromatherapy's PP tend to be stalled by Toxic users like Rapidash and Miltank.

These wallbreakers have been on the rise for some months already and they just keep getting more proeminent.

Same as above, but the other way arround. These 3 wallbreakers have been struggling for a while now, and are mediocre at breaking current defensive cores.

This core has been on the rise in tournaments as an effective way to punish common defensive cores with Tangela, Miltank, and Articuno and keep Spikes on the field.

(Grass) wasn't nommed but has been used with great success during the latter suspect tests in Ho3n's Hyper Offense team.

edit: I forgot to link the sheet! Thanks 5Dots and Toto for joining us for this update.

 

[Aaronboyer]

Cryogonal from B- -> B
Currently, with an 81% winrate in ZUPL thus far, Cryogonal has shown to be more than just a sidegrade Articuno. Item removal in this metagame has proven to be crucial, and not very many teams appreciate their Ice switch-in being Knocked Off, whether that be a Clefairy having its bulk compromised by the loss of its Eviolite or a Klinklang losing its Leftovers and getting worn down over the course of a game. Cryogonal's Speed tier is also quite important as it naturally outspeeds some of the most common metagame threats such as Rotom and Sawk so after they lose their Scarf / aren't running Scarf Cryogonal can revenge kill them once worn down. Give the snowflake a try, especially if you're using Palossand, I highly recommend it!

 

[5Dots]

Going to write in some noms

RISES

B -> A

Sableye is one of the best physical walls, even with low stats. Prankster, a great utility movepool, and a terrific typing make it perhaps the ideal stopgap to most Swords Dance sweepers or Choice Band users, which helps complete many defensive teams. It’s one of the main reasons as to why Sawk dropped recently and is one of the few Pokemon that can check Klinklang reliably without resorting to resistances. Even though it struggles to switch into Perrserker and can’t deal with Cofagrigus very well, it’s more of a testament to how strong perrserker is and how tough Cofagrigus is to break through (which perrserker can still be crippled by Wisp, and Sableye can still play around with Encore with smart play). Taunt sets also are terrific at shutting down miltank that can potentially status it, and works against hyper offense leads like Froslass and Accelgor for the same reasons. Sableye has gotten better with a lot of meta trends recently and reflects the rise.

C+ -> B-
Roselia has seen surprisingly high usage thanks to its nice defensive typing and Spikes support. PawnRose teams (and to a lesser extension Klinklang + Rose teams) have seen increased usage thanks to their great synergy, and Roselia is a fantastic wall against select walls like defensive Poliwrath, Miltank, Stunfisk, and Tangela. Roselia can also be a decent emergency check against select physical attackers Rhydon and Sawk, as it has sufficent Speed and bulk to avoid the 2HKO from both of them. Don’t get me wrong, Qwilfish and Froslass are still quite popular, but both lack the reliable recovery, bulk and defensive typing Froslass has, which makes Rone stand out better for defensive teams looking to wear teams down for chip damage.

DROPS

A -> A-
Rhydon’s power and physical bulk are less useful in a Klinklang and status-heavy meta. Stunfisk is usually the better choice thanks to its much better special bulk, meaning it can check special attackers Stunfisk and Rotom better, as well as not having as many exploitable weaknesses. Without the special bulk, it’s unable to switch in (and can even lose to with enough chip) to Silvally-Poison. Even though Rhydon also lacks recovery like Stunfisk, it needs Eviolite to make itself bulky, which means residual damage from Toxic or Burns can wear it down even faster. A lot of Pokemon also run enough Speed to specifically outpace max Speed (both Adamant and Jolly variants), like Poliwrath and Tangela, which makes Swords Dance sets a lot less effective and subsequently a lot more Support to make work.

B- -> C
Both of these Flying-types are not good. Their Stealth Rock weakness is more prominent than ever with how bulky the meta has been, and Magic Bounce from Hattrem support also is quite uncommon. Offensive Flying-types are rare which still showcases their capabilities, but they’re roles not in high demand. Worse, both face large amounts of competition with other Choice users (Unfezant) or Silvally formes (Silvally). These Pokemon haven’t seen much use since ZUPL III and shows how much they struggle right now. Other Flying-types like Articuno and Altaria have continued to proven more consistent. Golbat has more usage this ZUPL (4), while Unfezant has seen only one and Silvally-flying hasn’t been used at all. Even though Defog and Rapid Spin support isn’t necessarily bad, said support usually fits on more balanced teams, which clashes with the offensive playstyles they currently fit at.

B- -> C+
The reason why Raichu has seen use was as an Electric-type that could immediately threaten Rhydon and Piloswine with Surf, but considering how difficult they are to fit on teams, Raichu’s usage has also dwindled. Knock Off + Boots sets are still useful against defensive teams, but it’s still hard to justify over other Electrics when it lacks the optimal coverage or utility necessary here. Not to mention Stunfisk and Grass-types have seen increasing use, which benefits Manectric on the flip side.

C -> UR
Mawile already struggled to make progress with its low Speed and Frailty, but Perrserker and Pawniard are able to wallbreak a lot easier. Perrserker with its nigh-unwallable coverage and U-turn, and Pawniard with Defiant + Sucker Punch. The redeeming traits Mawile have are dealing with Poliwrath, Gurdurr, and Tangela better. Again, due to its frailty, it will still take a lot of damage from them and will likely trade itself off. While Mawile has only Galarian Rapidash as physical Fairy-type competition, Sheer Force + Steel-typing isn’t worth the trade off of much higher Speed and recovery. Defensive sets also aren’t good due to how susceptible it is to being worn down and its special bulk being too horrid to be reliable as a wall.

 

[BaitWiz]

Heya all, sorry for the scuffed-ness of this post. I’m working off of mobile since I’m on vacation, but wanted to throw in my final thoughts on mons in SS ZU before the VR update~

RISES

Cofagrigus: ZUBL

This mon is nuts and it’s only a matter of time until it gets itself banned. Phenomenal physical bulk, extremely good coverage with body press + shadow ball, resttalk sets, iron defense/cm sets, the list goes on. It also has tspikes which is neat in the right scenario, though not exactly a staple move when Roselia exists.


Miltank: A+ -> S

The Cow has only been getting better in this slow paced, bulky metagame, making it one of the tier’s staples. With the ability to provide cleric support, have reliable recovery, spread status with toxic, deal reliable damage with seismic toss, and even pull off a curse set to win games in the right scenario, this cow is rough to deal with at best. Blanket walling numerous unboosted attacks makes Miltank incredibly good, especially since boosted attacks are a rarity in this metagame.


Articuno: A+ -> S

In my honest opinion, you’re trolling if you aren’t using Articuno. Phenomenal bulk, provides heal bell support, blanket checks nearly every single water-type, grass-type, and other ice-type Pokémon, hits incredibly hard with offensive sets, has reliable recovery, the list goes on and on. I’ve even seen Articuno do its job without its trusty HDB before, especially since everything is so bulky and doesn’t hit as hard.


Perrzerker: A+

An absolute godsend to the tier. Slow as hell but hits everything like a truck, even resists. Breaks walls like nobody’s business and even finds utility against offense through fake out.


Palossand: A -> A+

Reliable recovery has shifted Palossand into being a defining partner for Articuno and Miltank, appreciating Miltank’s ghost immunity, soaking up electric- and fighting- type attacks, eating knock offs, tanking physical attacks… the list goes on and on. Sucks to be Rhydon when this thing is around - more on that later.


Gurdurr: B+ -> A-

Gurdurr is a phenomenal support for offensive teams with its tried and true bulk up set. It also acts as a solid status absorber and forces defensive teams into deciding what mon is taking a knock off. Has a rough time against Palossand but is great against basically everything else.


Roselia + Pawniard: C+ -> B-

A previously underrated duo, Roselia + Pawniard has caught eyes during ZUPL for good reason with a devastating combo of annoying spikes and a Defiant boosting demon of a chess piece. Roselia is a decent answer to some of the tier’s water, poison, and grass types while providing excellent spikes support to its team; meanwhile Pawniard continues excellence against poison types while matching up well against the tier’s most common defoggers in Articuno and Hurricane Altaria.


DROPS


Froslass: A+ to A Axing this, didn’t really consider taunt variants, thanks 5gen

Not being able to Knock Off items is damn near a death sentence for banded Froslass in this bulky metagame; furthermore, even if you could it’d still be problematic as Articuno + Miltank is such a common duo. The latter also stonewalls standard band Froslass, forcing Lass to call a Switcharoo or just setup spikes. Meanwhile, lead Froslass just isn’t as good when your opponent is nearly guaranteed to get rid of your spikes no matter what and can probably play around Destiny Bond as well.


Rhydon: A -> A-

What a sad, sad fall from the top Rhydon has had. With status everywhere, omnipresent Tangela and water types, and no recovery to its name, Rhydon has just had it rougher and rougher with each passing week of SS ZU. It still is excellent in an offensive role, but can’t fill the role of defensive backbone for teams that it used to be able to do. It also finds itself unbelievably stuffed by Palossand, being outsustained by it and near permanently walled by it on non-SD sets. Lastly, it often finds itself outclassed by Stunfisk since it needs its Eviolite to function against special attackers while Stunfisk is able to dedicate its item slot to recovery or adding chip to the opponent.


Rotom-Fan: B- -> C

This thing is outclassed by Rotom as an electric type and by Altaria and Articuno as a flying type. I legitimately don’t understand how this Pokémon is ever supposed to be worth using over other options; the extra bulk just isn’t worth the loss in speed and reliance on HDB.


Silvally-Flying: B- -> C+

Having a stealth rock weakness is a deathwish if you’re a Pokémon like Silvally-Flying who can’t even wear HDB to ignore it. Reliable Flying STAB is good in theory, but sadly in practice rock types, steel types, and electric types are everywhere to thwart it.


Final Thoughts:

I worry immensely in regards to the current state of SS ZU. Bulky teams are singlehandedly warping the metagame around them, with Miltank and Articuno at the center of them. I truthfully believe that one of these two Pokémon needs to go after Cofagrigus is removed. These two make far too solid of a defensive core to build around for whatever sort of team you want to build, polarizing the meta into either two bulky teams trying to stall each other out of Heal Bells or a match decided at team preview as to whether the offensive team has an answer to the mons supporting the opposing Articuno and Miltank.

 

[5gen]

DROPS

Froslass: A+ to A

Not being able to Knock Off items is damn near a death sentence for banded Froslass in this bulky metagame; furthermore, even if you could it’d still be problematic as Articuno + Miltank is such a common duo. The latter also stonewalls standard band Froslass, forcing Lass to call a Switcharoo or just setup spikes. Meanwhile, lead Froslass just isn’t as good when your opponent is nearly guaranteed to get rid of your spikes no matter what and can probably play around Destiny Bond as well.

Rotom-Fan: B- -> C

This thing is outclassed by Rotom as an electric type and by Altaria and Articuno as a flying type. I legitimately don’t understand how this Pokémon is ever supposed to be worth using over other options; the extra bulk just isn’t worth the loss in speed and reliance on HDB.

Hey. I read these two noms and wanted to bring up that Taunt+Spikes HDB Froslass is its best set and that NP Rotom-S is what makes it worth using in this metagame. I haven't seen CB Froslass work since it dropped because Miltank is everywhere and it isn't that difficult to wall even without it. Conversely, because Froslass shuts down both Articuno and Miltank with Taunt, they are not problematic for it; rather, Froslass takes advantage of them pretty well. In addition, it can block other Defog users like Altaria and Rotom thanks to its Speed and STABs. To me, Froslass is good where its at because of how well it can facilitate teammates, gain and keep momentum through Taunt+its Speed tier, and reward aggressive play. I believe Froslass shouldn't drop for the reasons you listed and should remain A+.

Side note I also like the suicide lead set still because you can set Spikes, force out or shut down other entry hazard setters, force switches through Destiny Bond mindgames, and/or take a Pokemon down with you.

As for Rotom-S, you believe Palossand, Gurdurr, Roselia, and Pawniard deserve a rise, and that Rhydon should drop. NP Rotom-S appreciates all of these trends because it has a relatively easy time setting up on those Palossand+bulky Grass-type teams. Also, its typing and slightly higher bulk than Rotom allows it to check/stay in on Perrserker, Cofagrigus, Tangela, Thwackey, and so on more freely, which gives it opportunities for setup and sweeps. Although Fantom has downsides such as difficulty with Stunfisk/Rhydon, vulnerability to chip, middling Speed, and competition with Rotom, I believe it's fine to stay in B- because its takes advantage of numerous trends at the moment.

 

[wooper]

not gonna go too in-depth with these noms bc im lazy but i do think there needs to be a bit of an overhaul of the vr.

rises
new --> a+
great drop, surprising diversity of sets; body press is a given, and then you can run id + shadow ball + rest, otr with id or np, wisp and/or tspike + hex, and im sure theres some im missing. item variations too: colbur, kasib, chesto, lefties are all good depending on the set youre running and the team support you have. some are calling for its ban and saying it's broken and it's definitely a strong mon that preys on cores like miltank + palo + cuno, but im not quite convinced it should go just yet.

new --> a+
another drop that people are saying is broken and has to go. again, super strong pick rn. banded has few switch-ins, sub sd can be deadly under the right conditions, and ive even experimented with bulky slow pivot a la wishiwashi. i support a suspect of this more than i do of coffin i think, but very good mon nonetheless.

a+ --> s
should have happened already tbh. easily one of the most centralizing mons in the meta rn, and just an all-around excellent pick. its role compression is phenomenal, you cant deny it.

a --> a+
im surprised to see this in a frankly. super customizable in both its moves and its spreads. just has a lot of variety that makes handling it very difficult. excellent wincon.

Hide

Alcremie (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 112 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Recover

ive been loving the this set recently. max hp for tanking things like cc and knock, enough speed for adamant max perrserker, and the rest in spatk, which actually means that dgleam into mfire will always kill perrserker if uninvested.

b --> b+
cram is one of the few mons that can defensively check perrserker, a mon that many agree has limited switch-ins, is unhealthy for the metagame, and is borderline broken. a cram user who knows what theyre doing--one who is running defog/roost/surf and either brave bird or hurricane, and not some weird set like sub lefties or endure--can easily handle perrserker, and has a decent enough match-up into mons like sd rapidash, scarf sawk not locked into stone edge, jynx, specially offensive froslass, skuntank, and more.

Hide

Cramorant @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gulp Missile
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 84 SpA / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Surf
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Cramorant @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gulp Missile
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Surf
- Brave Bird
- Roost

the first set ive been using has enough spatk to 2hko perrserker with surf, while tough claws-boosted iron head and cc will never 2hko, which means you can hard switch into it and win the 1v1. this set, however, cannot do so if the opponent has lash out or if they are steely spirit. the second set sacrifices the guaranteed 2hko with surf for more defense, which is probably the better route to take imo.

b --> b+/a-
sab does well into lots of mons, most notably sawk and miltank, thanks to its typing and prankster, but it has a niche as a defensive check to cofa. it is not the most reliable answer because of spdef drops from shadow ball, but you are immune to body press and can hard switch in to encore the iron defense, nasty plot, calm mind, trick room, rest, or whatever else it's packing. really shaky match-up into perrserker, but you can always come in and try to burn it before you die if thats your only option.

b --> b+
i just think this should be on par with liepard and ivy for its role on sun teams

b- --> b+/a-

Cryogonal from B- -> B
Currently, with an 81% winrate in ZUPL thus far, Cryogonal has shown to be more than just a sidegrade Articuno. Item removal in this metagame has proven to be crucial, and not very many teams appreciate their Ice switch-in being Knocked Off, whether that be a Clefairy having its bulk compromised by the loss of its Eviolite or a Klinklang losing its Leftovers and getting worn down over the course of a game. Cryogonal's Speed tier is also quite important as it naturally outspeeds some of the most common metagame threats such as Rotom and Sawk so after they lose their Scarf / aren't running Scarf Cryogonal can revenge kill them once worn down. Give the snowflake a try, especially if you're using Palossand, I highly recommend it!

echoing what aaron said here! has the ability to run either defog or rapid spin, the latter of which pairs really well with its ability to spread knock on spikestacking teams. also it being able to knock its checks like rapidash, cuno, and klinklang is just so so good.

Hide

Cryogonal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Freeze-Dry
- Knock Off
- Recover

with minimal defense evs, you live a specs jynx psyshock and do big damage with knock

c+ --> b-
rose has seen an increase in usage recently, and my peers above have acknowledged why. it's a solid pick, and the adaptation from spdef natural cure to physdef poison point is a neat selling point.

c --> c+
great defog deterrent, ability to sd up and claim with iron head and sucker, and great utility in a powerful stab knock. pairs well with rose of course but also with froslass.

drops
s --> a+
maybe im alone in this but i think that klinklang has fallen from grace a bit in the recent weeks. it still does klinklang things, but i think that the drops just made it not as strong? idk how to articulate it but it just doesnt feel as good as it was pre-october shifts but it's still a great progress maker and wincon

s --> a+
again i feel like i might be alone in this but i just dont feel as if rotom is s-worthy. dont get me wrong, it has great set variety between scarf, specs, bulky defog, offensive defog, subplot, and more, and teams without dedicated volt immunes turn it into a major pivot bot until it can clean up the endgame. but like klinklang, i dont feel like it's as strong as it used to be. people are gravitating towards other electrics and if they want a ghost theyre usually using coffin. new toy syndrome? not sure

a+ --> a
really annoying mon because of how much it forces progress through knock, sleep powder, leech seed, potential sludge bomb poisons, and regen of course. but meta trends dont seem to favor it i dont think.

a --> a-
when was the last time someone used this thing? sure it's bulky and edgequake is deadly, but it's super slow and super susceptible to chip because it is practically forced to run evio.

i dont really care to nom anything else i dont think so this shall be it for now! if i change my mind and want to add more i'll just edit them in thanks for reading bye ily

 

[viet noa]

Sawk: A+ to A
With Sawk being such a menace for such a long time, the meta has been able to adapt to it quite well. Especially with the newcomer Palossand, Sawk users have to worry about a pretty large pool of checks & counters. With Scarf sets seeing a downward trend, Sawk is also more worried about revenge killers than ever. Although we know that Band and Black Belt sets elevate Sawk's power to obscene levels, teams are more prepared than ever before. With cores like Alcremie and Palossand / Sableye hovering around, Sawk can't simply tear down defensive cores as easily as it used to. Still a premier breaker, but definitely a manageable one.


Flapple: B to C+
Being an inconsistent wallbreaker is one thing, but Flapple's been able to make up for that for a solid amount of time. Unfortunately, the meta has not been very kind to it lately. The presence of Articuno, Klinklang, Rapidash, and Nascar Cow hold it back from making progress game-in and game-out. Unlike a Grass-type breaker like Thwackey, who provides team support through Grassy Terrain and Knock Off, Flapple has a limited purpose outside of pure wallbreaking. I think C Tier represents the mons that definitely can put in work, but have a very hard time finding the right situation, and Flapple fits that perfectly. Its poor bulk, awkward Speed tier, narrow coverage, and 80% accuracy make it unreliable even if its ceiling is high.


Shuckle: C- to UR
It feels so odd seeing Shuckle in ZU's VR. Sticky Web sucks, and has sucked for a while. So many Pokemon don't care about it at all, and in a metagame with a lot of balance and bulky offense, Sticky Web doesn't directly interfere with team styles. In contrast to teams that set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, teams with Shuckle pretty much have to be hyper offense. Thus, there's little to no longevity in Sticky Web. This would be fine if Shuckle had reliable recovery, offensive utility, or SOMETHING. There's where the problem lies ~ Shuckle just sucks, particularly in this meta.

The Pokemon below have already been nommed, and I'm just going to explain why I agree with the noms.


Miltank: A+ to S
In my opinion, Miltank has been the defining defensive Pokemon in ZU for a while now. Miltank has unmatched levels of team support and versatility, and is easily the best defensive mon in the game.


Cryogonal: B- to B+
Despite its inherent similarities to Articuno, Cryogonal carves its own niche as a genuinely solid alternative as a specially defensive hazard remover. Cryogonal's role compression can prove to be vital on different cores, with Knock Off and Rapid Spin having a host of useful applications.


Sableye: B to A-
Having priority alongside every utility move in the book is pretty good. Although it can't directly switch into everything, it gets free status on virtually every wallbreaker and can shut down support mons with Taunt.

 

[iLiekMudkipz_]

one nom for me, thank you

Lycanroc-Midnight: B+ to A-

From what I've seen so far, this is a very ice-heavy meta. Rock types like Lycanroc appear to be able to help with such. I've been delving into Lycanroc-Midnight a little bit, and this thing is a pretty decent meta checker.

252+ Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Midnight Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Perrserker: 396-466 (140.9 - 165.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (get it on switch-in)

252+ Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 854-1008 (235.2 - 277.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (same with close combat)

252 SpA Articuno Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lycanroc-Midnight: 117-138 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (I checked all sets, it 3hkos no matter what)

252+ Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Midnight Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Articuno: 984-1156 (306.5 - 360.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Midnight Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Miltank: 378-446 (95.9 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

[Tuthur]

to UR
Nobody uses it for real. It has always been borderline unviable, but now it invites CB Perrserker unlike Tangela and Gourgeist-XL. There is no reason to use it. Please unrank.

to UR
Exeggutor and Beheeyem are both better at clicking Future Sight. Uxie and Alcremie are better at clicking Calm Mind. Musharna is just outclassed and it receives no usage as a result. Please unrank.

Thank you to all of those who submitted nominations. The ZU Council is going to vote on it, and this thread will remain locked until we post the results.

 

[Tuthur]

We voted! Thank you 5Dots and Louna for joining us, here is the sheet.

Rises
New to A+
New to A+
A to A+
B to B+
B to B+
B- to B+
C+ to B-
C to B-

Drops
S to A+
B+ to B
B- to C+
B- to C+
C+ to UR
C to UR
C to C-

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Here's a couple of my rankings I made that I'll comment on:

I voted S rank because of Articuno's high use, versatility, and potency as a wall. We saw Articuno as the #1 used Pokemon in this year's ZUPL by a decent margin. No other wall has the defensive merit, hazard support, and pivoting capabilities as Articuno. These three traits make it invaluable on most teams. Where it falls short, meaning its vulnerability to Knock Off and poor type matchups, are where its teammates support it perfectly. If there's one wall deserving of S, it's Articuno, and it earns this sport for being integral to any team it is on for supportive, defensive, and even offensive characteristics. And don't get me started on spamming Freeze-Dry, fishing for freezes...

Sableye feels like an A rank wall to me. It covers so many random threats thanks to Prankster, and while something like Alcremie isn't affected by Encore, you wouldn't use Sableye to handle a Fairy-type anyways. Sableye works on a ton of cores thanks to its typing being pretty good all things considered, and it only falls short in the bulk department; Choice Band Lycanroc-D and Perrserker aren't foes you can switch into. That said, it still beats these two 1v1 thanks to burn, so all it needs is positioning support for it to excel.

What's coming out of the woodworks as a potential top-tier wall is Roselia. It is only at B- as of today, but I foresee it being in the A ranks if the meta continues to go in its favor. Roselia was originally just a niche pick for being able to deal with other Grass-types like Tangela and Thwacky pretty well, stacking up residual damage from Spikes + Poison Point and forcing these foes out with Sludge Bomb. Now, with more time to experiment with Roselia and new additions like Perr + Cofa, we're seeing calculated use of Rose as a wall capable of a lot more. Its Speed + Sleep Powder is already a huge asset, and its immunity to Toxic (all the while spreading its own status) makes it difficult for walls bar Articuno and Coalossal to deal with it. I believe that even Spikes isn't necessary if you wanted to go the route of Growth to function as a stallbreaker + Cofa counter. Roselia is shaping up to be one of the better anti-meta picks that you can rely on.

 

[diegoyuhhi]

ok so after being late for the last vr update, i will nom a mon i've been using a lot recently and that has been working pretty well:

UR -> C-
this is not a joke nom. this mon is genuinely a very good anti-meta wallbreaker:

set

Heatmor @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain / Knock Off
- Knock Off / Flamethrower / Scorching Sands / whatever

in this tier, our fire resists are pretty limited, and get all hit pretty hard by fighting + grass coverage, and knock helps a lot with the mons you cannot immediately threaten; this combined with the meta being pretty slow and fat means that this mon can actually scare a lot of top tier defensive pokemon:

the immense power of fire blast:

fire blast calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Articuno: 324-384 (84.5 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 184-217 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Palossand: 322-381 (86 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alcremie: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 205-242 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 205-242 (75.6 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Cramorant: 129-152 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

focus blast to hit miltank and a few other mons:

focus blast calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 108 SpD Miltank: 430-508 (109.1 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 372-438 (92 - 108.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Appletun: 223-263 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

giga drain for poliwrath and nice recovery:

giga drain calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 254-300 (66.1 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (40.8 - 48.2% recovered)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 170-200 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (27.3 - 32.1% recovered)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Palossand: 294-346 (78.6 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (47.2 - 55.6% recovered)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 187-221 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (27.3 - 32.1% recovered)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatmor Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 187-221 (69 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (30.2 - 35.6% recovered)

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1695578786 (do not mind the team im using) here even with a pretty bad mu, we can see how heatmor has an easy switchin on some mons like cuno, and how it threatens a ko every time it comes on the field if it predicts right

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1696573800 here as well we see the real wallbreaking potential of this mon, as every time it comes on the field it does big damage to the opponent’s team. got pretty lucky in the end but i was able to win it

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1696580465-pnzeh2kzsucsopmb15myqwhi058sh2wpw here my opp predicted me really well, and at first heatmor wasn’t able to break through his team; but when i was able to take down the miltank i was free to spam fire stabs, and after sacking it thwackey won

ofc this mon is not perfect, it still is not that fast and neither that bulky, it’s weak to rocks and it really struggles to break past altaria, but it still think it has a pretty solid anti-meta niche and in the right matchup it can put in a lot of work, so that’s why i’m nomming it. don't underestimate this mon and try it out by yourself, you'll see how good it can actually be :)

 

[TomatoZause]

A- -> A+
This is a very underappreciated mon and should be used more, but is frequently overshadowed by the likes of other, bulkier steels such as Klinklang or Perrserker as well as Ground types like Palossand, Rhydon and the Fisks.

In ZU, the top mons are mostly weak to either ground and steel, which Alolan Dugtrio can take advantage of. 5 of the mons in A+ can be outsped and take significant damage (or even be ohkoed) by either EQ or Iron Head and with a sub intact it can even take care of non-scarf sawk by just clicking EQ twice. It also does well against the mons in A, either crippling them with toxic or smacking them with its brutal Ground-Steel stab combination. With slow pivoting, Alolan-Dugtrio can find itself in prime situations to setup substitutes, as it is forcing switches on these high ranked mons, such as Skuntank. While its life orb set can allow it to hit on kills it would otherwise not, a fast, frail mon setting up subs is usually more favorable and subtox is its best set in my opinion. Alolan-Dugtrio can single-handedly change the trajectory of a match by switching in on a mon can't touch it, or getting a slow pivot via mons such as Articuno or Clefairy.

Iron Head Calcs

252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 218-260 (56.9 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jynx: 480-566 (177.1 - 208.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alcremie: 188-224 (56.2 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recover

Earthquake Calcs

252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Perrserker: 272-324 (96.7 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 242-288 (84.6 - 100.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Skuntank: 378-446 (108.9 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Stunfisk: 314-372 (74.4 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Poison: 288-338 (87 - 102.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rapidash: 366-432 (109.5 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Qwilfish: 182-216 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Morpeko: 422-500 (164.2 - 194.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dugtrio-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 174-205 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Once this mon gets a sub up, it is virtually unstoppable. EQ takes care of the mons it can't toxic, Iron Head offers additional coverage against other mons and Toxic can cripple its checks and counters. It does very well against the meta by simply getting a sub up against a mon it forces a switch against, and wrecking havoc with its 3 remaining moves. It is a solid mon that does superbly against a majority of the top mons.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1698918487
Duggy provides relentless pressure, ultimately causing my opponent to forfeit rather quickly.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1698968885
Duggy and Manectric close a winning endgame successfully.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1698976066
Duggy dissects Tangdash Balance, single-handedly winning the battle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1702929743
In a true masterclass of how great a mon Duggy is, it gets rolling and it doesn't stop. It ran circles around my opponents team and 6-0'd him with full HP and the sub intact. If you are to only watch one, I recommend this is it, as it truly shows how antimeta Alolan-Duggy is.

 

[TomatoZause]

UR -> C
I figured since fire types have recently been on the horizon, I mine as well give a nom to one of the unranked threatening fire types, Combusken.

Set

Combust Ken (Combusken) @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Protect / Substitute
- Thunder Punch / Brick Break

In ZU, both fire types and resists are limited. When you pair this with a pokemon that can snowball into an unstoppable sweeper after several protects and a swords dance or two, it can cut through teams that lack a bulk fire resists like Swiss Cheese. It differentiates itself from Rapidash by being able to outspeed scarfers after several protects. Brick Break allows you to hit Thick Fat Miltank whereas Thunder Punch allows you to hit waters such as Qwilfish and Cramorant, mons that are becoming more and more successful due to their ability to switch-in to Perrserker. Substitute without recovery can be shaky sometimes, but if it is forcing a switch, it can definitely start to wreak havoc in short order.

Flare Blitz Calcs

+2 252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 163-193 (51 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alcremie: 255-300 (76.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Super: 494-584 (132 - 156.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 470-554 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Clefairy: 348-411 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Perrserker: 294-348 (104.6 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 260-308 (90.9 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dry Skin Jynx: 810-954 (298.8 - 352%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Brick Break Calcs

+2 252 Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 128+ Def Miltank: 288-338 (73 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Coalossal: 314-372 (74 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lickilicky: 384-452 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Dark: 384-452 (116 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 354-416 (135.6 - 159.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Liepard: 318-374 (118.2 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thunder Punch Calcs

+2 252 Atk Combusken Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Poliwrath: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Combusken Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Qwilfish: 184-218 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Combusken Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Cramorant: 268-316 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While the Thunder Punch calcs may be underwhelming, these 3 mons are very common and will otherwise wall Combusken, therefore give thunder punch merit over Brick Break. Combusken is obviously not about to break the meta, but a fire type that isn't weak to rocks is a refreshing sight. While it suffers from many of the same problems Heatmor does, getting walled by Altaria and other walls that resist its moves or tank them, such as Rhydon, it can still be threatening and clean up mid-late game. It can negate its lack of bulk with eviolite while speed boost solves its slow nature. Not being weak to rocks helps it and the additional fighting type certainly helps it differentiate itself from other fire types, such as Rapidash. In a good matchup, this mon can get a solid amount of kills, and even in a bad matchup, it usually can trade itself off for another mon.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1703826149-vaxcdrz0ae8gli5c61pgsx92jnu0cu3pw
Busken venges its fallen Palossand by 6-0ing its opponents team after a single SD.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1703849897
Busken and Eggy provide significant pressure, forcing my opponent to sack his Qwilfish early on, and penultimately leading to sub-30 turn forfeit.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1705404092
Busken utilizes a gimmicky set to earn several kills in an MVP level performance.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1703889624
Busken closes down a winning endgame with a single sd, showing its late-game potency.

 

[ThatRayquaza]

Changes:

UR to C


Combusken is a really good speed boost sweeper, protect once, swords dance once and then sweep
Unfortunaly busken don´t have powerful moves, being restricted to Blaze Kick and Brick Break, but it has a niche:

combusken @ focus sash
ability: speed boost
evs: 252 atk / 252 spe / 4 hp
adamant nature
-blaze kick
-brick break
-swords dance
-protect

Here is silvally-dark´s worst nightmare

C+-B

Ludicolo is just dangerous in rain, it can literally S.W.E.E.P hith its hydro pump, with stab and rain leaving it with a power of 220, along with colo´s deent special attack:

ludicolo @ life orb
ability: swift swim
evs: 252 spa / 252 spe / 4 spd
modest nature
-hydro pump
-giga drain
-ice beam
-rain dance

 

[TomatoZause]

to C
Ninetales is rarely used and for logical reasons. It has good coverage, but lacks coverage for common fat mons such as thick fat Miltank, Altaria and Appletun. It can run substitute to prevent status from Pyukumuku and Altaria, but it then drops coverage for common mons such as Rapidash, Qwilfish and Coalossal. Even when Ninetales lands a kill, countless fast attackers can revenge kill it. Some examples include Scarfed Sawk, Choice Banded Froslass and Dugtrio-Alola. In addition to all this, it will soon lose a minor upside for it, checking the soon to be banned Perrserker.

to A-
When Cofagrigus dropped, it seemed as if it would be banworthy, due to Ghost+Fighting coverage having no resistances or immunities. However, Cofagrigus suffers in similar ways as Spiritomb, although it is obviously better. Status moves are usually the best way to cripple it. Encore, Taunt, Toxic, Leech Seed, WoW and Haze all mess Cofa up. Even if Cofagrigus gets snowballing, its low speed leaves it susceptible to Trick/Switcheroo, and revenge killers, although it can depend on what item Cofagrigus is holding. Trick Room on Cofa makes it significantly weaker to status moves and requires it to be very efficient with its reads. While the Cofa player can run Heal Bell support or a Chesto Berry for rest, it either leaves it very weak to Dark Types throughout or dependent on being careful to not let its support die while sniping off checks and counters.

(Super) to B
This is one of the simpler rises, it can switch into many offensively threatening Pokémon such as Sawk, Rhydon and Thwackey and threaten them back with WoW, Toxic, Power Whip, Foul Play or Leech Seed. It can also surprise opponents with Choice Band to break open games. Being able to wall all physical mons that lack Dark or Ghost stab is invaluable and its current rank does not indicate this.

to A+
It is difficult to find a better rocker than Palossand. It synergizes tremendously well with Miltank and Articuno, two mons in the A+ rank. It also provides a switch into Choice Banded Sawk, which is very important. It can also be threatening offensively with its 100 Sp. Atk. It is used often and is deserving of A+.

to C+
Cramorant lost its best feature due to the Perrserker ban, as it was one of the Cat's only (albeit shaky) counters. It peaked during Centiskorch's reign, hitting B+; however, it hasn't really dropped the way it should've. The offensive sets lack the speed, pressure, power or pivoting you'd want and the defog sets are a bit frail without significant defensive investment. The defog sets are also outright outclassed by both Altaria and Articuno because Cramorant lacks Heal Bell, U-turn, Natural Cure and Toxic. The general argument for the defog sets is that they pressure rockers. While this is true for Palossand, it simply cannot switch-in safely to other rockers, namely Rhydon and Stone Edge Piloswine variants. Lastly the ability is definitely fun and useful, but can be played around very easily via indirect damage (usually Toxic). This wouldn't be as big of a deal if it had access to the previously mentioned Heal Bell, but it does not. Overall, Cramorant is outclassed and has very little going for it over other mons.

(Flying) to C/C-
No reason to run it over most of the other Silvallies. Being weak to rocks is very bad and it can't hit rock types hard as it wants to with surf. Because this mon can only come in so many times a game, it needs to make the most of its opportunities, which is hard to do. Overall I think it should be C- because it is worse than Silvally-Grass or Silvally-Water. It sees almost no use in tournaments and it is easy to see why.

to S/S-
Best glue mon in the tier, with cleric support as well as consistent damage via seismic toss, it can seem invincible at times. Its high speed allows it to chop down teams. Sap Sipper helps against mons such as Lilligant, Butterfree, Thwackey and Silvally-Grass. Thick Fat can also help against Rapidash and Froslass. Toxic allows it to hit ghost types that it can't hit with Seismic Toss. Overall, this seems like a mon that could be considered for a ban, and is a cut above the rest as we stand now.

to C
A fairly simple rise, the reason it dropped is because of Perrserker, who is now gone.

to C-
Mawile has some unique attributes that carve out a niche for it in ZU. It can effortlessly wall Flameless Skuntank, the tier's premier stallbreaker. It also has access to the invaluable Intimidate which helps it against physical breakers. It can pressure its opponents with Knock Off or Super Fang and setup Rocks on a free turn. Lastly, its Fairy typing helps in matchups other Steels might struggle with, like Poliwrath.