Resource SS UU Crown Tundra Viability Ranking Thread

[Hilomilo]

Thank you to HotFuzzBall for this beautiful banner!​

Welcome to the SS UU Viability Ranking Thread!

Here, our goal is to sort every Pokemon with viability in the SS UU metagame into ranks based on their specific value in the tier. Anyone and everyone is encouraged to post their thoughts regarding the rankings, which will then be discussed by our viability team when putting updates together. In updating the thread, we do our best to refine the rankings to what most accurately represents the metagame. Updates do not occur on a scheduled basis, and will instead happen when the metagame has developed to a point that several accurate changes can be made.

Host: Hilomilo

The main idea of the ranking thread is to group each UU-viable Pokemon into 'tiers' that go in order, from S to C. Below are general descriptions of what you should expect of Pokemon found in specific ranks.

Ranking Descriptions

S Rank describes Pokemon that provide dominant or multifaceted presences within the metagame. Whether it's through offensive, defensive, or supportive roles, S-ranked Pokemon perform at a top level of consistency, provide excellent utility and/or versatility, and prove key in shaping the metagame's trends and patterns.

In the A+ and A ranks reside Pokemon that are also defining but don't quite provide the same extent of splashability, utility, or centralization as what's in S. A- and B+ describe Pokemon that have solid places in the tier, but aren't as necessarily defining or consistent despite making their presences known. B is generally the lowest rank in which Pokemon with solidified niches in the tier can be found. In B- and C+ lie Pokemon with defined niches that may run into more restrictions that prevent consistent usage, as well as Pokemon with untapped yet firm potential.

C and C- are generally for Pokemon that have their uses but are often outclassed or more inconsistent, as well as Pokemon with specific niches that don't warrant particularly high placement. Newly discovered Pokemon that are viable but have yet to find their footing or consistent usage can also be found here. Lastly, D-ranked Pokemon are UU by usage but unviable in the metagame. As such, discussion on Pokemon ranked in D is not allowed.

When nominating Pokemon to rise or drop in this thread, be sure to try avoiding personal bias. Some things to consider bringing up when discussing a Pokemon are how trends favor or disadvantage it, how it compares to competition for its role, and how it has adapted to shifts in the overall metagame. Replays are also great tools to help support a nomination, especially if it's for an unranked Pokemon to find a rank somewhere. Now, without further ado, it's time to get to our rankings. Enjoy!

S Rank

Cobalion

A+ Rank

Amoonguss

Celesteela

Diggersby

Excadrill

Hippowdon

Hydreigon

Nihilego

Salamence

Tangrowth

Primarina

A Rank

Azelf

Chansey

Gyarados

Keldeo

Rotom-W

Scizor

Skarmory

Slowking

Thundurus-T

Zarude

Zygarde-10%

A- Rank

Conkeldurr

Crobat

Mamoswine

Slowbro-Galar

Togekiss

B+ Rank

Hatterene

Lycanroc-D

Necrozma

Nidoqueen

Noivern

Raikou

Reuniclus

Rotom-H

B Rank

Azumarill

Chandelure

Crawdaunt

Dhelmise

Jirachi

Krookodile

Mandibuzz

Moltres

Registeel

Starmie

Swampert

Tentacruel

Umbreon

B- Rank

Entei

Golisopod

Nidoking

Polteageist

Rhyperior

Suicune

Vanilluxe

C+ Rank

Articuno

Cloyster

Cresselia

Darmanitan

Kingdra

Politoed

Quagsire

Roserade

Salazzle

Seismitoad

Scolipede

Tapu Bulu

Torkoal

Tornadus

Toxtricity

Venusaur

C Rank

Ditto

Flygon

Froslass

Gastrodon

Heliolisk

Jellicent

Lanturn

Magneton

Mantine

Marowak-Alola

Porygon2

Regieleki

Ribombee

Sigilyph

Sylveon

 

[Hilomilo]

Update Log
1. 12/14/20 - 01/05/21
2. 01/05/21 - 02/21/21
3. 02/21/21 - 03/21/21
4. 03/21/21 - 04/15/21
5. 04/15/21 - 05/16/21
6. 05/16/21 - 06/16/21
7. 06/16/21 - 07/19/21
8. 07/19/21 - 08/29/21
9. 08/29/21 - 09/30/21
10. 09/30/21 - 11/09/21
11. 11/09/21 - 12/19/21
12. 12/19/21 - 01/24/22

 

[Hilomilo]

Reserved. Quick announcement that for the time being I'm planning on posting discussion points around a week from now, but would like for more opportunity for organic discussion from our community before doing so to gauge what may be included. Thanks and happy posting! ~

 

[Glitchwood High]

A to B-. An A-ranked Pokemon is supposed to be a defining part of the metagame, a Pokemon that's a solid piece in the puzzle, which Conkeldurr...isn't. There are a large array of pokemon that resist it's fighting stab and tear through conkeldurr accordingly. Heck, the majority of defensive Pokemon outspeed it (and if it's running max speed, that means even less bulk). It seems good in a vacuum, but in practice it underperforms. I think all the other priority users in the metagame are far more useful and some of them even have speed (or can sweep themselves). I think B- is more in line with it's role in the metagame; as the most unga bunga priority user known to man.


A to B+. It's not bad, but it often dies before doing much of anything and faces extraordinarily stiff competition from Latias. You're basically playing a 5v6 if the opponent has a celesteela on their team. Having to depend on focus miss to hit miscalleneous steels and darks is also pretty unfortunate, and in general, a heck of a lot of Pokemon resist psychic. No Tapu Lele also means expanding force isn't an option.


A- to B+. Honestly it's a conkeldurr scenario, except Diggersby is a lot better than Conk. I would personally rate it lower than this but a lot of people seem to believe in the bunny.


A- to B-/C+. That's a massive dropoff but to me, the thunder chicken just struggles to find a place in the tier. Apart from the fact that it's counterpart has 20 more special attack and an electric immunity, thundurus just...struggles to find a place in a team. I can't think of a lot of playstyles where Thundurus isn't an easily replaceable option. It's shenanigans with prankster are neat but that's the extent of them, it's base speed is pretty good but it lacks the power or bulk or utility to abuse it, and it's forced to run hdb most of the time.

(IMAGINE DOUBLADE HERE)
B to C-/UR. With galar-zapdos gone any crumb of a defensive niche Doublade possessed vanished into the wind. It checks veeeeery few things on the physical side because everything either hits it super effectively, or has knockoff to invalidate it's defenses. It's poor special defense also makes it fodder for pretty much every special attacker. Even if you go realllly low in these rankings, there are scant few mons doublade can even switch into, much less check or counter. It has no recovery, can't run boots, has an ability that makes it get hit more often, and overall just sucks.

Offensively doublade is poor. It beats variants of sdance scizor that don't have knockoff. It beats latias, assuming it doesn't have specs, assuming it doesn't have lo, assuming you're at full health and it's at uninvested sneak range. You check the psychic types, assuming they don't kill you first (forget any hopes of switching in). If you really wanted to beat psychic types with a bad Pokemon with priority, mimikyu is better 100% of the time.

 

[DonSalvatore]

It's cool to see the viability ranking in uu !
I would say that I generally agree with its rankings except for some mons.



I really think that Celesteela is one of the best mons of the third if not the best.
He checks almost half of the mon in the tier : latias, bulu, zam, salamence, scizor, and many others.
It can also be played on the special plane with meteor beam and autotomize and it's not so easy to manage.
It's also very splashable, quite easy to fit in a team given all the defensive benefits it brings.

I think it deserves an S rating alongside Zeraora.



The next one is nidoqueen, nidoqueen is really strong right now.
Offensively with the life orb, sheer force and her very good movepool it's really hard to switch in.
Only Chansey and slowking can tank her hits, even celesteela can be 2HKO by Fire blast :

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 221-263 (55.6 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Defensively, she is very fat and hard to take down and she's maybe one of the best zeraora switch in.
I really think she deserves the A rank.



Thundurus-therian for A-

I think Thundurus-therian is a very good wallbreaker, especially now with its ability to dismantles most popular fat builds like celesteela + Tang + slowking.
Only Recover Latias and Nidoqueen can switch repeatedly on him.
His ability is nice to against the top tier Zeraora and I think is way better than Thundurus, who for me does not deserve his A-.

Thanks for reading, and sorry if my english is bad.

 

[Monky25]

Gonna second error's post, though to a lesser extent.

-Conk definitely should be moved down, though mainly to A- or B+ because it still is a rather good mon that is quite unexplored. It tears through defensive mon and makes a great partner with bulu to help its grassy terrain recovery. I used conk a fair amount back in November on my teams and it did not disappoint. Being in A though is a stretch, its not a major part of the metagame (yet) and even though usage /=/ viability, you think something that good would be seen more but no. I personally would put it in B+, also works in A- depending on the thoughts of others.

-Alakazam i also agree with being nommed down, its a solid breaker but i feel it faces a lot of competition from latias which imo is a top5 mon. Zam is quite frail and struggles to get in, and without a boost it doesn't OHKO much while getting OHKOd back by anything with a slight offensive presence. Sash counter is gimmicky, it works but overall it isn't the greatest. I'd nom zam down to A- as it still has a great speed tier and nice damage output. If people want to nom it further to B+ that works, but zam feels more of A- to me.

-Disagree with a diggersby nom, its still very good even in this meta and its SD sets are deadly, utilizing fire punch to make quick work of steela and skarm. A- fits just fine.

-Thundurus-incarnate I would agree and nom it down to B. The post above me says it all, but it still has its merits as a prankster defogger and thunder wave spreader, thus why i would only nom it down to B rather than B- cause its definitely a lot better than the stuff in there.

Don't really have an opinion on doublade, instead I'll give some of my own nominations for rises and drops.

to A-. Great at dismantling popular fat builds like tang+ slowking+ steela. It has very few switch ins and has great coverage with psychic, sludge wave, grass knot, focus blast, and weather ball for weather builds. I dont get why reg thundurus was A- when this is so much better (EDIT: just saw post above which says the same thing lmao)

to B+: Sun is still a very prominent weather, having gotten a lot better with hippowdon leaving. Venusuar has very little switch ins at +2 and can outspeed lots of scarfers under the sun. Sun has other abusers like hatterene and vicitni which greatly strengthen the playstyle. Sun has consistently put in work for me and it warrants a rise 1 sub rank to b+.

 

[Estarossa]

I don't want to make a big post on everything atm, but since multiple people have commented on Thundurus-I vs Thundurus-T, I just wanted to explain the reasoning for why we voted to put Thundurus-I higher, and why it ends up being the better option most of the time outside of Webs where Therian's Speed tier is offset and its Electric-immunity is super valuable for Zeraora matchup.

The biggest thing comes down to the Speed tier as I just mentioned, Thundurus-I ends up outspeeding Keldeo, Nihilego, and Terrakion, Pokemon that would otherwise revenge Thundy-T, which ends up being massive especially in Terrakions case, with it currently being an incredible Pokemon in the metagame right now and seeing very high usage. This greater consistency as well as the ability to directly threaten two top Pokemon in Keldeo and Terrakion is highly desirable for Incarnate formes, and worth the trade for the weaker SpA. Incarnate formes even outspeed Latias too, which while unlikely to make a difference a lot of the time, can still allow you to get last ditch damage off on it or beat Specs sets which lack recovery.

On a side note, while it does lose the trademark Electric-immunity of Therian sets, which I mentioned as being really useful on Webs teams and where I would 100% prefer Therian, Prankster isn't totally useless either and some AoA sets do employ Twave with it, which can be used as a last-ditch effort versus speed boosting threats that might otherwise sweep you like DD/Scale Shot Kommo-o.

 

[BigFatMantis]

I think Thundurus-I and Thundurus-T are very different mons, and I don't think they should be treated or compared as the same type of thing. They are both very good in what they do. Thundurus-I is admittedly slept on ATM, probably because it's not "officially" UU so less people try it out. Hopefully these VR cause more people to try it out in the future (I know a lot of people build based on VRs). I think after more people try using it more, we can all get a better sense of where they both fit in these VR's.

On a few others:



A to A-

I think Alakazam is alright, but A is a little high. Knock is good utility, but it's so frail that almost anything in the tier can one shot it, or two shot it if it has a sash. Knocking Celesteela is good, but then it just dies to Heavy Slam. It's a nice revenge killer, but so is Bisharp, and I think Bisharp is a lot more solid, yet ranked below it ATM. I never see a team with Alakazam and get worried in the slightest - but a lot of the A- rank mons do give me that effect (Lycanroc/Gyarados/Bisharp etc.).

-



It seems perfectly fine (not a nom I know, bad me)

I think Doublade is currently disrespected in the tier and I absolutely agree to it having a place on these VR. It is quite honestly just physical attack Aegislash, but never loses its bulk. (That may be an exaggeration but you get what I mean). B is exactly where I would put it and I don't think it should change at all - in fact, I encourage more people to try it out. Scizor does NOT outclass it - it is a much different role than Scizor, and it's not fair to Scizor or Doublade to try to compare them just because they're both steel w/ priority.

-



A+ to A

Victini doesn't quite do it for me. Without Band, its damage is not as scary. With Band, it slowly dies to rocks. Terrible priority weaknesses that allow it to be OHKOd with just one rock chip. If it doesn't run Glaciate then Fat Mence just eats it for lunch. It's a great mon, don't get me wrong. Very strong. But compared to all the other A+ mons, it seems much more manageable than dealing with a Latias or Azu or Blaziken or Celesteela. Speaking of which...

-



A+ to S

I get that this thing lost most of its games in Snake last week, but it's still imo the most useful mon in the tier. Every single team seems better with a Celesteela - even a HO variant with M Beam. While more people have figured out how to beat the Leech Seed set more easily, it's still a monster to deal with and if your check dies then it's impossible to muscle through it. You will just lose. It has caused all of us to passively plan for it in teambuilder always. You cannot build any team without keeping Celsesteela in mind - and that kind of effect should make it S rank to me.

 

[Monky25]

I know I already made a VR post today but after an unfortunate evening in laddering I feel I must make this case now.

should rise from B to B+ as it as equally as good or possibly even better than ninetales alola as a screen setter. Lets start with the pros to using grimmsnarl over ninetales alola. First, it can guarantee to get up both screens due to prankster. Even though grimmsnarl can get killed behind a screen by many mons, the ability to set up a light screen or reflect depending on the mon (example is light screen then reflect versus say alakazam or vice versa against something like terrak) is still very good. This guarantees both screens to get up, unlike ninetales alola which is at risk of getting KOd by common scarfers like victini or jirachi or even mons that plainly outspeed it like lycanroc-dusk. Still, aurora veil being able to set up screens in one go is still very good to use alolan ninetales as a setter. Secondly, grimmsnarl has a better defensive typing and bulk than tales, allowing it to come in multiple times during a match and set screens opposed to ninetales which takes a good chunk from rocks. I will acknowledge that ninetales does have more of an offensive presence and can pressure defoggers, but so can grimmsnarl. Prankster taunt keeps the likes of latias, rotom heat, thundurus, and salamence from blowing away the screens, so even though alola tales is much more offensive against defoggers grimm also can put in work stopping them. Grimm has far superiors utility than ninetales, being able to utilize prankster taunt to stop defoggers and set up sweepers as said above or thunder wave to cripple threats throughout the match, which is far better than alola tales having to use hypnosis. Lastly, grimmsnarl doesn't require the weather to set screens while alola tales does. This admittedly is a weaker point since while sun is good its not the most popular thing around, so veil still sets up quite easily. grimmsnarl can even stop alolan ninetales, being able to taunt it thanks to prankster and keep it from setting up veil, forcing it out as it sets up screens. Overall, while veil is a fun and stupid archetype thanks to alolan ninetales, grimmsnarl is still a very good setter who has many pros compared to ninetales, and thus should be at least the same rank as it on B+. Hope this works and grimm gets a rise. Also, I totally did not make this post because my own hail killed my own sweeper from cleaning a game several times today

 

[Moutemoute]

Even tho I voted it to S, I believe Celesteela should not be S in the current metagame. Blaziken is pretty common and the whole metagame around it is tough for Celesteela in my opinion which doesn't allow defensive sets to shine as much as before. Most Pokemon can bother it or weaken it with either a super effective coverage or Knock Off. On the other side, offensive sets are great for sure but I don't think they can grant on their own the S rank to Celesteela. It's also kinda weird to play Celesteela because it "just" brings to your team a Steel-type which kinda sucks because you want Steel-types to do more than just bring defensive coverage to your time. Thus Celesteela is in a weird spot where you has to pick it over something more useful like Jirachi which can either set Stealth Rock, Wish pass or be a good offensive pivot with Choice Scarf and Healing Wish + Trick. So yeah I think Celesteela should stay A+ for the moment.

I already talked about this one when we voted and I was shocked that it was A rank considering this Pokemon is basically not use at all. While I agree that usages ≠ viability, I just don't agree with the fact that Conkeldurr is ranked as high as things like Jirachi, Salamence, Scizor or Tangrowth, for real what the heck ?! Trully think this one is super overrated and should drop at least A- (if not B+). We have Fighting-types such as Terrakion or Blaziken which are way faster which is great in the current metagame which is offensive as fuck. And if you want a bulky Fighting-types you should just go with Kommo-o in my opinion. So yeah drop this Pokemon already please.

Same as Conkeldurr, I strongly believe those two should be lower. Diggersby is in my opinion really meh in the current metagame and Skarmory just isn't a great Defogger neither Stealth Rock setter outside of really defensive archetypes (which are not the best at the moment). Defog Salamence is in my opinion way more valuable atm just because we have so much Fire-types powerhouse that can ruin Skarmory.

Fuck that shit for real, just unranked it already. We tossed out of the VR Pokemon such as Xatu or Regidrago but we kept Sandslash-Alola, yeah no way, delete this garbage from the VR please..

 

[Chicknemacnchez]

I would like to nominate Salamence to A+.

The defensive set is a defining force in the meta and this the ONLY safe check to Blaziken. There are other good sets, but defensive is by far the best set and checks so many monsters that would crush a team otherwise.

I would like to nominate Thundurus-Therian to A-

Well I just want regular Thundurus and Thundurus-T to switch. Volt Absorb is a much more useful ability than Prankster right now. Also the higher special attack stat allows it to crush defensive teams more easily.

Those are the main problems imo, great start!

 

[Hogg]

Re: Thundy-I vs Thundy-T, I'm big on the Incarnate train. As cool as Volt Absorb is, it kind of doesn't help that it loses 1v1 vs the primary electric type in Zeraora, and struggles against Rotom-Heat as well. Its Speed, though, is what really holds it back. Losing out against top threats like Latias, Terrakion and Nihilego is really unfortunate, and it can't even reasonably revenge something like Keldeo with that Speed. Meanwhile Incarnate form functionally has the second-best Speed tier available, making it a way deadlier offensive threat.

Like many others I'm a bit confused as to how Conk ended up so high, despite the fact that I'm pretty big on the Conk train. I think it's definitely underused and underrated, but B+ feels like a good place for it, not A. Maybe A-, but certainly not A.

This was a weird slate, though, because honestly... I really don't know that anything feels convincingly S-rank right now. I'd rank the top mons as something like Latias, Zeraora, Celesteela, Azumarill and Scizor, in that order. (If something changes and Blaziken goes, though, swap Azu and Scizor's slot - I think Scizor is honestly a better mon overall, but Azu being probably the single best offensive Blaze check definitely bumps it up a notch.) However, all of them have enough drawbacks that I struggle to call any of them S. Celesteela definitely has dropped a long way since the "Celesteela is broken" cries of a couple of weeks ago, mostly because people have started to realize how easy it is to take advantage of a 'mon whose primary offensive pressure comes from Leech Seed, though it's still a behemoth and offensive sets are still absolutely terrifying. Zera is a fantastic pivot/cleaner/revenge killer, almost as good as Noivern was in pre-DLC2 meta, but its mediocre attacking stats makes it really reliant on packing the proper coverage to really put in offensive pressure. Latias is probably the closest to S for me, as it has that perfect combination of offensive firepower and defensive utility, but other big dogs like Celesteela and the omnipresence of a super fast Knock 'mon go a long way to keep it in check. All in all, it's really hard to definitively rank the viability of the top mons.

 

[Twilight]

Given that this shift has like zero impact on the tier I'll post some of my thoughts.

Latias rise to S
I find Latias to be the more obvious/closest S rank Pokemon right now. STABs + Mystical Fire is difficult to pivot into and alongside the defensive utility its typing provides, I think it's worthy of sitting alongside Zeraora. I've only really seen 3 Attacks Roost and Calm Mind Latias but the Choice locked sets are usable if needed. It's very clearly a step above the rest of A+ in my eyes. It's not going to fail to put in work especially with its Speed tier allowing it to revenge kill a large portion of the tier.

Scizor rise to A+
I think Scizor is reaching the point where it's becoming a dominant sweeper again with its Swords Dance sets. It has the flexibility to work around all of its checks in the tier. The main downside is that it's no longer the most reliable pivot into Latias with almost all of them carrying Mystical Fire. Quick Attack is solid on the LO sets that prevent stuff like Blaziken, Zeraora, and Victini revenge killing it safely. The bulky SD sets are also great for switching around Kyurem etc.

Bisharp rise to A
Bisharp is benefitting a lot from a majority of its defensive checks like Cobalion not being used as much anymore. Pokemon like Keldeo and Terrakion check it, but doing 50% minimum with a SD boosted Sucker Punch is a lot. Defensive Kommo-o is probably one of the more reliable responses to it assuming you are running the Speed to outpace it. I don't think I've had a game where I don't find this Pokemon scary.

Tangrowth rise to A+
Tangrowth is really versatile in what it can check in the tier and that's what makes it a step above Amoonguss imo. It's able to check/soft-check a majority of the top Pokemon in the tier. Thanks to its typing and respectable offensive stats it's not as passive as other pivots, which prevents stuff like Blaziken from mindlessly attempting to set up on it. Being one of the best Terrakion switchins is extremely valuable with how stupid that Pokemon is.

Mew rise to A-
Personally, I think this Pokemon is super good. The flexibility to run Spikes, SR, Defog makes it rather easy to slot onto a team. The 'stallbreaker' sets are annoying to play around and can shut down a fair amount of walls. It doesn't hard check many things but 100 across the board lets it be an emergency check to stuff like Gyarados, DD Kommo-o, Salamence etc. (assuming you are using Wisp). It's one of the better suicide leads and there has also been experimentation with that Cosmic Power set.

Zygarde-10% rise to B-/B
This is better than the garbage sitting in C+. Thousand Arrows is lowkey broken but the reason I wouldn't raise it higher than this is that the few mons that resist it are Tapu Bulu and Tangrowth, though it can cripple them with Toxic. These Grass-types are so common which hinders its performance a fair amount. However, anything lacking these two is likely to not appreciate switching into it.

Toxtricity and Stakataka rise to B
No one is running Toxtricity answers (not like there are many) so it is very easy for it to put in work every game. Personally, I hate being choice locked on it so I've been using Magnet but other than Rhyperior and Soundproof Kommo-o it has an easy time spamming Boomburst and Overdrive. Shift Gear sets are also in a decent spot for the same reason. OTR Stakataka is pretty scary to deal with and requires you to switch around it for the most part. Bulletproof Kommo-o is one of the better pivots into it but some have been dropping that ability. It's also one of the better Latias answers with none of them using Aura Sphere.

Thundurus Incarnate remain A-
As Esta and Hogg already stated, the Speed tier of Thundurus I makes it so much deadlier than its Therian counterpart. Not being forced out by Terrakion is massive for it. AoA sets can also run Knock Off to lure in and remove Latias. Thundurus Therian does have its upsides with Volt Absorb to check Zeraora and great breaking abilities but I do find it to be a Pokemon that fits best on HO that supports it better and values this additional utility it provides. Thundurus consistently sitting at 1% usage is disrespectful as fck smh.

Skarmory remain A-
I think Skarmory is fine where it is. Spikes are lowkey broken and it provides enough defensive utility on the physical side to set itself apart from Celesteela. It's a good response to stuff like Scizor, Mamoswine, DD Mence, Tapu Bulu, CB Azumarill, etc. Sturdy can also come in clutch when it comes to dealing with Blaziken or getting an emergency Whirlwind off. Body Press isn't very common but it is an option to let it beat Bisharp. The big downside is it being a Steel-type that can't take on Latias or other Psychic-types well but you can support that in the builder. I think it is fine in A- personally.

Conkeldurr drop to A-/B+
Yeah, I voted for Conkeldurr to be A originally but I agree it should probably drop down a bit. I do think it's a Pokemon that is fairly undervalued but no complaints with that.

Noivern drop lower
I don't really see much reason to use Noivern anymore, nor have I ran into it once. In almost every scenario I'd just use Salamence, which has better bulk, Intimidate, and mixed offenses to run both special and physical sets. The Speed tier is nice and Infiltrator can help against cheese but I don't think B rank really reflects that.

Togekiss drop to B
It is hard to justify using Togekiss right now imo. Kyurem is seeing a lot more usage, Mamoswine and Terrakion are really popular, and stuff like Scizor and Jirachi are getting more usage since Aegislash's absence. It lets in too many things for free that you really want to avoid in this metagame. I do think Nasty Plot sets with Flamethrower/Fire Blast are decent but I think a drop is reasonable to reflect this.

 

[Monky25]

Been a while since I've come up with some nominations but now I'm back to nominate

to A-. Mew is very underrated in the current meta, especially its cosmic power/rest set. This thing is a demon, helping me get reqs like no other. Here are some replays of how it destroyed opposing teams. Ignore the low ladder part b/c it works regardless, had some good sweeps in the higher ladder where once it got in it shut down. it can come in on opposing kommo-o a LOT, allowing yourself to set up and snowball. Once it gets up 2 cosmic powers, there is nothing stopping it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1247409263-onvfl2rqsyw4g4ggwju6kn96qvc6saipw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1247421122-ajtt1hdghbfvd2mlvv88di62pxmpescpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1247479738-mdru67n291mhoymad3o3pub4n85abgjpw

Anyway, here are some more nominations

to B+: Not gonna provide replays because lets be real we would've ranked this anyway. Regieleki's only real set is it's screens set, attacking sets are moot due to teams already being prepared for another speedy electric type and eleki's lack of coverage means it will be relegated to a supportive role. Anyway, this might be the best setter in the tier. I used screens HO to try to get reqs (went through 3 accounts before finally getting it right) and used alolan ninetales, grimmsnarl, and eleki on separate teams, with eleki easily being the best setter. Eleki's blistering speed tier and ability to explode to not be a momentum sink and damage something heavily and rapid spin to remove hazards makes it super valuable to use. It should be in B+ with the other setters in alolan ninetales and grimmsnarl who is nearly as good as eleki.

to B+ or even B: Volcanion dropping was initially a shock to me, but the more I looked the more I understood why. It struggles to distingush itself from other waters like azumarill or fires like blaziken and its low speed and weaknesses to electric and ground make it hard for volc to keep up. It just feels out of place with the other A- mons. B+ would be more appropriate its still a decent and viable option, hell maybe even B, idk someone can explain it better if they agree with me more.

to B: B+ is basically the same as A-, just consisting of more limited mons like thundy t which is only on webs or g moltres which is the goat but only is on screens HO, or underutilized mons like rhyperior, suicune, and galarbo which I urge people to try. Anyway, haxorus doesn't fit with these other mons. The presence of physical tanks like tang as well as mons like steela hurt haxorus' viability, and its awkward speed tier and better dragons like kommo-o and latias makes it hard to justify a spot on most teams. B fits it better, crazy to see such a nutty mon be not that good in the current metagame.

to A: After time to think about it, victini isn't that good compared to the stuff in A+, which are way more consistent and splash able and powerful. Tini runs into some issues, choice sets lack longevity while boots lack immediate power. Its awkward defensive typing being knock weak and weak to ground hurts more than it helps, and it has 4MSS a bit. salamence hardwalls it without glaciate and its choice locked problems can be taken advantage of with hazards or revenge killers. Simply put, vicitni isn't as consistent as the other A+ mons and I think it's better to be in A as the meta has adapted to it (and this is coming from someone who thought it was mega broken before)

to B- or C+: To be honest I don't care where it goes, get this trash outside of B. Outclassed by better fighting types and as a rock setter with it's speed tier not that special anymore, cobalion is not B rank worthy. there are so many mons that I would use over cobalion as a offensive fighter or defensive steel or rocks setter. B- works, C+ works, hell even C works, just not in B.

to B+: Pretty underrated threat ngl, magic guard is an amazing ability and its sets with stored power and cosmic power/acid armor its really good. Once it gets going you are not killing it,. Nothing much to say, B+ is a neat rise for it.

to UR: Gonna be honest I find no reason to use any of these mons. There are better offensive electric pivots, suicide leads, special breakers, and all around just better mons to use than these. If anyone has a justification for any of these being ranked by all means correct me, but i dont see myself touching any of these mons at all and struggle to see niches for them

- other stuff I agree with but don't want to go into too much depth with (zydog to B, tang to A+, latias to S, togekiss to B, noivern to B-)

That's all my thoughts on what changes should happen to the VR, If anyone agrees or disagrees feel free to let me know. Good luck to those trying to get reqs, cosmic power mew is your friend and you should use it.

 

[BigFatMantis]

Just gonna chime in here on the two mons I've been researching this weeki:



UR to B

Regieleki is basically an alternative screen setter, which you can use instead of Grimmsnarl if you want more of a KABOOM. I think Grimmsnarl is better in many situations, but it's the closest thing I can compare it to. It's offensive sets are no good because of the prevalence of so many Grounds or Elec Immune mons, and its ring target teams are a gimmick. Even a specs Thunderbolt does not KO basic things unless they are frailmons, and you need to OHKO everything to survive or else most things will KO you back. Basically, I think it is just as good, maybe a little better than Grimmsnarl as a screen setter, but not as good as Ninetales. And since Ninetales is B+ and Grimmsnarl is B, I think this thing should also be B.

-



A to B+

Conk I think is very overrated in the current meta. It's not bad by any means, but it's certainly not even close to A status. It's wrecked by most HO teams because Conk is slow most things carry a move to OHKO Conk when boosted. Against stall, the Flame Orb is nice to avoid toxic and break, but it needs Fire Punch to deal with Amoonguss, and if it has it then it doesn't have PJab for fairies. It's still a nice mon and has a spot on many teams, but compared to the other stuff in A rank it does not even compare really.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Just gonna chime in here on the two mons I've been researching this weeki:



UR to B

Regieleki is basically an alternative screen setter, which you can use instead of Grimmsnarl if you want more of a KABOOM. I think Grimmsnarl is better in many situations, but it's the closest thing I can compare it to. It's offensive sets are no good because of the prevalence of so many Grounds or Elec Immune mons, and its ring target teams are a gimmick. Even a specs Thunderbolt does not KO basic things unless they are frailmons, and you need to OHKO everything to survive or else most things will KO you back. Basically, I think it is just as good, maybe a little better than Grimmsnarl as a screen setter, but not as good as Ninetales. And since Ninetales is B+ and Grimmsnarl is B, I think this thing should also be B.

Regieleki's main selling point here is that it's a screen setter that can 100% safely get your sweeper in without damage via Explosion. AVeil is the better screen, but the hail chip damage is detrimental to the longevity for sweepers overall, and that's not mentioning the damage you could possibly take by switching you sweeper in. It's also the reason why I think Xatu is a better screen setter sometimes than Grimmsnarl, but that's just my opinion. Regieleki warrants around a B+ because it's a better enabler of set-up sweepers that doesn't contribute to any negative momentum drawbacks that using something like Grimmsnarl has.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Regiliki to B-,

why? well its offensive sets are walled by the plethora of ground types and ofc zeraora to. Its one saving grace is a screens set in which the only reason you should choose it over grimsnarl is that it has rapid spin and boom, nice utility moves, but it lacks taunt, its typing is very bad defensively. So why is it B, well booming on defog attempts, having a pivot move in volt switch, and rapid spin provides some niches over grimsnarl.

Nidoqueen to A

Its defensive uses are amazing, its offensively and defensively very good, Sheer force + Life orb gives it immense power with stab earth power and sludge wave. It also has coverage options in fire blast, ice beam, and the rare thunderbolt, it also has stealth rocks and toxic spikes to help support its team with it. It also has a good defensive typing being resistant to rocks, immune to toxic spikes, and the ability to pressure many mons in the tier with its good bulk, good sp attack, and a good speed tier in 76 outspeed many defensive pokemon like tangrowth, incineroar, skarmory, rhyperior, and celesteela and also outspeeding slow offensive threats like conkeldurr, scizor, magnezone, and celesteela.

All these good qualities are good for it to be put into A. But why not A+? For one, its reliance on life orb for being an offensive presence is a bit detrimental due to its lack of a recovery, it also is weak to many mons like keldeo, latias, krookidile, alakazam, and rotom wash.

 

[Cuddly]

A+ -> A
Discount Rillaboom really appreciates being in a tier where its main competition is absent. That is all well and good, and being essentially an OU Pokemon in UU is always a good thing for your viability. However I think when hype up Tapu Bulu, they forget a few things that make Rillaboom outclass Tapu Bulu.
Lacking Grassy Glide, Knock Off, and U-turn, Tapu Bulu is a more selfish Pokemon and ironically makes it easier to deal with. With Rillaboom, you can easily spam Knock Off and U-turn, which will either let you keep momemtum or cripple an opposing Pokemon it can’t beat normally. Normally this would only matter if Rillaboom was UU again, which is why I’m not putting Tapu Bulu in UR, as it still has several qualities of its own.
However, while Tapu Bulu can stuff a Pokemon like Zeraora (ones without acrobatics at least) while dishing out a meaty Wood Hammer, it faces tons of issues against other top tiers.
A strong CB GT Wood Hammer barely phases Celesteela, Kommo-o, Amoonguss, Salamence, Jirachi, Scizor, Skarmory, and Tangrowth, especially when factoring in that Grassy Terrain heals the grounded Pokemon for pseudo leftovers.
Sure, these Pokemon don’t like its coverage moves, but Stone Edge and Close Combat can easily be taken advantage while locked (such as givof and have very limited PP. Now imagine if Tapu Bulu had Knock Off in this scenario. They all get crippled by either lacking a form of recovery, missing out on damage, or being completely ruined. How about U-turn? Well it also chips and gives you the advantage to send in an offensive threat for free while they switch into. Let’s also not forget about Grassy Glide and Tapu Bulu’s Speed tier.
Several top tiers can threaten Tapu Bulu offensively as well, with many of those defensive switch-ins having something to threaten Bulu out, and other Pokemon such as Blaziken, Victini, Kyurem, Rotom-H, Mamoswine, and Nidoqueen being able to outspeed and easily KO frailer Tapu Bulu, negating Bulu’s biggest strength in having a lot of healing a lot while dishing out damage. Blaziken especially hurting due to speed boost on every set ignoring scarf variants.
There is also Regieleki in the UU tier, although isn’t ranked, will easily be top tier, and Bulu really wishes it had Grassy Glide, as even with a resistance to electric, it still is 2HKO’d cleanly by Specs Thunderbolt if it doesn’t have a bulky spread. A lack of Grassy Glide also hinders its ability to pick off weakened speedy foes, where it will often be the one to lose in a low HP scenario (although somewhat rare since Bulu has a strong Horn Leech).
It isn’t so bad for Bulu though. It still has tons of power behind its Wood Hammer, which seperates it from the tanky grassys like Tangrowth, and while prediction reliant with a big drawback, Close Combat/Stone Edge can be rewarding. Bulu isn’t 100% selfish either. While it lacks U-turn, you can still have your Jirachi, Magnezone, Nidoqueen, Tentacruel, all take reduced damage from Earthquakes, while every grounded wall gets 1/8th passive recovery while Grassy Terrain is still up.
Bulu also has less competition when it comes to Terrain setters, which (besides Thwackey (which I honestly could consider using. Will test later)) also lack U-Turn/Knock Off, so for UU, it is the best pick for terrain teams.

 

[Twilight]

A+ -> A
Discount Rillaboom really appreciates being in a tier where its main competition is absent. That is all well and good, and being essentially an OU Pokemon in UU is always a good thing for your viability. However I think when hype up Tapu Bulu, they forget a few things that make Rillaboom outclass Tapu Bulu.
Lacking Grassy Glide, Knock Off, and U-turn, Tapu Bulu is a more selfish Pokemon and ironically makes it easier to deal with. With Rillaboom, you can easily spam Knock Off and U-turn, which will either let you keep momemtum or cripple an opposing Pokemon it can’t beat normally. Normally this would only matter if Rillaboom was UU again, which is why I’m not putting Tapu Bulu in UR, as it still has several qualities of its own.
However, while Tapu Bulu can stuff a Pokemon like Zeraora (ones without acrobatics at least) while dishing out a meaty Wood Hammer, it faces tons of issues against other top tiers.
A strong CB GT Wood Hammer barely phases Celesteela, Kommo-o, Amoonguss, Salamence, Jirachi, Scizor, Skarmory, and Tangrowth, especially when factoring in that Grassy Terrain heals the grounded Pokemon for pseudo leftovers.
Sure, these Pokemon don’t like its coverage moves, but Stone Edge and Close Combat can easily be taken advantage while locked (such as givof and have very limited PP. Now imagine if Tapu Bulu had Knock Off in this scenario. They all get crippled by either lacking a form of recovery, missing out on damage, or being completely ruined. How about U-turn? Well it also chips and gives you the advantage to send in an offensive threat for free while they switch into. Let’s also not forget about Grassy Glide and Tapu Bulu’s Speed tier.
Several top tiers can threaten Tapu Bulu offensively as well, with many of those defensive switch-ins having something to threaten Bulu out, and other Pokemon such as Blaziken, Victini, Kyurem, Rotom-H, Mamoswine, and Nidoqueen being able to outspeed and easily KO frailer Tapu Bulu, negating Bulu’s biggest strength in having a lot of healing a lot while dishing out damage. Blaziken especially hurting due to speed boost on every set ignoring scarf variants.
There is also Regieleki in the UU tier, although isn’t ranked, will easily be top tier, and Bulu really wishes it had Grassy Glide, as even with a resistance to electric, it still is 2HKO’d cleanly by Specs Thunderbolt if it doesn’t have a bulky spread. A lack of Grassy Glide also hinders its ability to pick off weakened speedy foes, where it will often be the one to lose in a low HP scenario (although somewhat rare since Bulu has a strong Horn Leech).
It isn’t so bad for Bulu though. It still has tons of power behind its Wood Hammer, which seperates it from the tanky grassys like Tangrowth, and while prediction reliant with a big drawback, Close Combat/Stone Edge can be rewarding. Bulu isn’t 100% selfish either. While it lacks U-turn, you can still have your Jirachi, Magnezone, Nidoqueen, Tentacruel, all take reduced damage from Earthquakes, while every grounded wall gets 1/8th passive recovery while Grassy Terrain is still up.
Bulu also has less competition when it comes to Terrain setters, which (besides Thwackey (which I honestly could consider using. Will test later)) also lack U-Turn/Knock Off, so for UU, it is the best pick for terrain teams.

This is a very bad way to go about deciding where something should be ranked and that's the only reason I'm making a response to this. Whether someone believes Tapu Bulu is A+ or A rank is subjective but the majority of your post comparing it to Rillaboom is irrelevant to UU. If you have played enough UU you'll know Swords Dance Tapu Bulu is one of its best sets and because of its rather expansive movepool it can break through a majority of the Pokemon you listed. Megahorn gets through Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Latias, Close Combat can break Celesteela, Kommo-o, Skarmory, etc. It has the means to muscle through its defensive checks depending on the coverage you opt for. Rillaboom does have more tools at its disposal with the moves you mentioned, which is exactly why it is OU and not UU. What it's capable of doing has absolutely zero impact on Bulu's viability in a different tier and a different metagame. Comparing the two just to point out the downsides Bulu has in the tier above isn't a logical reasoning for it to drop in viability here. Aside from that sure you bring up valid points about it being forced out by a fair amount of things, as the tier is adapting to its presence. Though Regieleki is no where near as dominant as you may believe, but even if the offensive sets can't switch into it well, Bulu has the versatility to run bulkier sets anyways. Personally, Bulu is fine where it is thanks to its great offensive and defensive typing, utility its ability provides, and ability to run a versatile amount of sets to work around offensive and defensive checks to it.

I also think Eleki should be ranked in B+ probably. It's a better screen setter than Ninetales. Grimmsnarl also being better too, so maybe revisiting the rankings for those two is needed. The offensive Eleki sets are annoying in mandating an Electric immunity for the most part but it's a lot more limiting for you than just using something else. Though the Speed tier is nice as it outpaces most set up sweepers. However, it is still frail so can't really pivot in other than via a safe switch.

 

[Lily]

Latias is the clear 2nd best Pokemon in the tier right now, and it could be argued as the best without it being considered much of a hot take. It has a ton of desirable traits right now, and here's a quick list:

-Offensive presence. It's fast enough to revenge kill stuff like Terrakion (which it can also switch into once), it's strong, it has coverage out the ass and realistically it doesn't have any reliable switch ins whatsoever except Chansey and Jirachi. Any other check can be 2HKOd on the switch by appropriate coverage if the Latias user happens to be running it.
-Defensive presence. Latias's monstrous special bulk and access to Roost/Recover makes it a phenomenal long-term switch-in to Pokemon like Thundurus, Nidoqueen, Keldeo, and special Victini. Its typing also makes it a solid check to some physical attackers like Tapu Bulu.
-Utility. While it obviously wants to just click buttons and nuke things, Latias has a lot of utility options that not many other Pokemon can fulfill right now. It's a solid Defogger, it's got access to Healing Wish which is absolutely huge in a meta where we're so reliant on temporary contingent checks for Pokemon like SD Blaziken and DD Kommo-o, and don't even get me started on the Psycho Shift set...

I think Latias firmly belongs in S rank alongside Zeraora. Those two encompass the best of the best in the tier to me, maybe Salamence too if Blaziken remains in the tier.

--

Other noms I agree with

A to A-: Too inconsistent to actually fit on many teams and it has absolutely zero defensive utility to counteract the fact that it's walled by some of the most common Pokemon in the tier.

A to lower: Conk is definitely being underrated by this thread's posters but it's a hard sell at A when it's competing with Terrakion and Blaziken, both of which are by far the most broken Pokemon in the tier.

A to A+: Surprised I only saw this nom once? Mence is borderline necessary on most teams right now due to Blaziken but that just makes it like S+ lol. It's great even outside of that role, being a good check to the likes of Keldeo, Victini, and Tapu Bulu, and it's also our best and most consistent Defogger. Intimidate is also a broken ability in a meta so full of dominant physical threats. This thing should no doubt be higher.

A to A+: Broken Sciz will always find a way.

A to A+: Tang is a bit better than Amoonguss is imo because it's a lot less limited in what it can do and it fits on way more teams as a result. The physical bulk is also needed to not be a half assed check to things (bulu terrak) and it's also way less passive, while Amoonguss is a sitting duck the second you Spore something.

B+ to A-: That cosmic power shit made me lose brain cells but it wins games so

wherever -> higher: These things are good. Use them.

B to B-: I'm sorry little one :sob: Noiv just can't really keep up with Mence. It still has a solid enough niche imo, being turbo fast and being a great component on VoltTurn teams alongside stuff like Scizor and Rotom-Heat but it's not quite what it used to be.

B+ to B or even lower: This thing SUCKS.

wherever they are to UR: They're just not good.

A- to A: The Queen sits atop her throne, laughing at those pathetically attempting to switch into her. Being one of our most solid Ground-types is a great benefit and being an apt wallbreaker while she's at it is amazing. I've found Nidoqueen to be insanely easy to fit on teams in need of a Ground-type, a rocker, or a wallbreaker, and it's reliable at all three. Sucks that it gets its LO knocked so often but hey what can you do.

--

Noms I disagree with

A- to lower: No. This should not be dropping. You have to keep in mind how important Speed tiers actually are in this meta, this is so much better than its Therian counterpart. It's not about Prankster or whatever.

A+ to S: Steela is just a noob trap tbh. Most good teams these days are well equipped to handle the LeechTect combination and it's not like its STABs are hard to switch into. Yeah it's hard to kill but it's really just a do nothing mon for the most part. The Meteor Beam set is a lot better and very difficult to handle, but it's not a sweeper that screams S rank to me. A+ is fine.

A- to lower: Diggersby FUCKS. It's really tough to handle and should not be dropping unless we suddenly get a Pokemon that absolutely mauls it and happens to be omnipresent (corviknight???) because it WILL beat you if you give it a free turn. It's far too lethal to be in the Bs.

A+ to A: This thing has a better shot at rising to S than dropping to A. Victini is absolutely positively bonkers due to its stupid versatility, great typing when combined with Heavy-Duty Boots, and the fact that it really just does not have a counter like, at all. It can dismantle EVERYTHING with the right moves and it has great defensive utility alongside its offensive prowess. It's arguably a top 5 Pokemon and I really don't know what the logic is behind it dropping. Are you guys just using the CB set or something?

C ranks to UR: No. They have their niches on their own playstyles (Spikes, Sun/budget zera that doesn't lose to bd azu lol, Hail/decent suicide lead) and just because they're niche or whatever doesn't mean they should be unranked.

A+ to A: What Twi said basically

---

If I didn't comment on something I either missed it or didn't care enough abt where the mon is to talk about it. Some other things are that Ninetales-A should drop hard bc it's awful and Regieleki is a matchup fish but damn if it isn't a good one, it should probably be like B+ or A-. Might make a follow up post after the suspect test ends shilling the second coming of Noivern or something but for now here are some thoughts.

 

[Lyssa]

hii, gonna share my thoughts on some of the recent noms.

to S: For sure.
Supporting Latias is the main reason that lead me to make this post. Latias is the most flexible and possibly best mon in the tier rn. It's splashable, can fit basically everywhere and can run basically everything. Scouting a Latias is pain even after assuming stuff from team preview. LO 3 Attacks is the best overall performing set and puts work in every single MU, but trying to play around that while avoiding some sorta of CM sets (Regular CM, Seed, Flame orb and others) or niches sets like Specs (that i believe is good, In a team that wants a fodder for amoonguss for example you can run Stabs/needed coverage/Sleep talk, or HW/Defog last depending on necessaries), Defensive (with stuff like tw that can always be annoying) and possibly others that i'm forgetting is really hard. I wasn't on the Latias hypetrain at first for some reason, but I'm realizing more and more how good this mon is.

to A- : ya
Most of the reasoning/debates i've been seeing about Mew focus mostly on the Cosmic Power set, but the Spikes Lead sets take the highlight for me. Not only cause Donny P. (W) washed me with that like 4 games in a row, but because i think that the archetype is really good rn. The combination of Spikes, bisharp and blaze(banbanbanban) is really hard to deal with and can go insane with a minimal error. Also defensive Mews are fire for their flexability, but I didn't try them out so /shrug.

to B+: Agree
Mhm, what to say here. Reuniclus has been getting some usage in UU snek with 2 sets: DD and Grassy seed. I was theorycrafting DD for a while before the week i used it in, but I didn't get the result i wanted. tldr is that the only dark type that you consistently run into in the current tier is krookodile, so any status on it can lead that set to go insane. The combination of Acid Armor+Calm mind is good, but i think that the rise in usage of bisharp can fuck up that set a bit. Grassy seed sets, on the other hand, are just good in general and less of a fish. Stab+Coverage is enough for it to clean up games without much effort, and it's less reliant on teamcomp.

Fast thoughts:

To A: ya
Read mew thing above+single handedly makes webs viable

to A+: for sure
Others already said enough about tang, but this mon is a blessing.

to A+: Agree
Cb good

to A: No
Grassy seed is insane lol

Lower: No
This thing is fine and there are some UU snek replays to prove it.

to A+: idk?
I don't have a strong opinion on mence, it's not putting in as much work for me but it always scares me when i'm up against one. I don't think that defensive is that reliable, but boots special sets for example are good.

to B+: Agree
Best screens setter

My noms:

to A
Ok so I'm going in the completely opposite direction compared to the previous nom. Celesteela is honestly not that good and It fell down a ton from the start of dlc2. The defensive Leech seed set is more and more abused, with stuff like Slowking becoming more and more common lately and niche sets like Flame orb latias rising up because of how the metagame is developing(the burn fucks you a ton). Zeraora is super splashable and deals really well with steela, it can get crippled over time by leech seeds but there are also combinations that avoid that (slowking tp, wish turn rachi into zera). I don't have a strong opinion on the Meteor beam set, i believe that it's good but doesn't find a way to consistently set up to take over games and it's not that hard to deal with from my perspective, i also believe there are better options for HO even tho nothing does what that set do.

to S
Ya, going the opposite way again. Psychic types are insane and my reasioning for Latias applies well to Victini too. This thing is extremely flexible and it basically has 0 mons that can switch in safely. Currently Boots sets are taking over, with special being the most used one due to glaciate consistently luring the poor mences, but playing around that while having to (possibly) scout a Scarf set that could be firing off a Final gambit or a trick, a banded Set that could nuke one of your mons off the game, or even some toxic version of it is a dangerous game. This thing is insane, put it in S.

I don't have a strong opinion on other stuff but I might write more if i feel like doing it. o/

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Victini to S dosent make sense.

It relies on band for power, and is walled by rock types, and protect just makes it so playing around it is so much easier, Factoring in rocks weakness to its just getting worn down throught the course of the game, and if it struggles to come in on faster and strong threats like daunt, thundurus, latias, terrakion. Its scarf set can counteract these issues but it now struggles to break throught resist like rotom wash, rhyperior, and dragons. Yes its V create is stupidly strong, yes it has other sets but boots just trades power for coverage and making a choice between galciate and energy ball/knot is pretty big to not be walled by mence or be walled by rhyperior, and rotom wash.

 

[Moutemoute]

Victini to S dosent make sense.

It relies on band for power, and is walled by rock types, and protect just makes it so playing around it is so much easier, Factoring in rocks weakness to its just getting worn down throught the course of the game, and if it struggles to come in on faster and strong threats like daunt, thundurus, latias, terrakion. Its scarf set can counteract these issues but it now struggles to break throught resist like rotom wash, rhyperior, and dragons. Yes its V create is stupidly strong, yes it has other sets but boots just trades power for coverage and making a choice between galciate and energy ball/knot is pretty big to not be walled by mence or be walled by rhyperior, and rotom wash.

I think the biggest mistake in your post is that you're focusing way too much on Choice Locked sets (either Choice Band or Choice Scarf) while Victini is much more versatile. HDB special sets are really great and annoying to face because Victini has an insanely large movepool which means it's trully hard to scout its special variants. Between options such as Blue Flare, Glaciate, Psychic, Energy Ball, U-turn etc.. it's actually tough to punish this Pokemon since its biggest weakness to Stealth Rock isn't really one with its HDB sets and its coverage is super wide. Yeah Choice Locked Victini are great but denying the fact that special sets are also great is a big mistake I think and maybe the reason you think Victini is that limited since they can really shine vs a lot of common teams/cores at the moment..!

Calcs to illustrate the fact that neither Salamence, Rhyperior or Rotom-Wash are a safe switch to Victini

252 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 288-340 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 255-300 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

........

I think the biggest mistake in your post is that you're focusing way too much on Choice Locked sets (either Choice Band or Choice Scarf) while Victini is much more versatile. HDB special sets are really great and annoying to face because Victini has an insanely large movepool which means it's trully hard to scout its special variants. Between options such as Blue Flare, Glaciate, Psychic, Energy Ball, U-turn etc.. it's actually tough to punish this Pokemon since its biggest weakness to Stealth Rock isn't really one with its HDB sets and its coverage is super wide. Yeah Choice Locked Victini are great but denying the fact that special sets are also great is a big mistake I think and maybe the reason you think Victini is that limited since they can really shine vs a lot of common teams/cores at the moment..!

Calcs to illustrate the fact that neither Salamence, Rhyperior or Rotom-Wash are a safe switch to Victini

252 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 288-340 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 255-300 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Well, the problem is that I have never seen a Special set before. But yes, i mainly focused on the choiced sets because I found those to be the strongest, Band V create is a nuke after all and having a choice band coming off 328 attack with a 180 STAB move is great. Scarf trades power to outspeed almost the entire metagame and still relatively be fast after a V create drop. Now, with special sets in the picture, I can see this being S, its now unwallable and at team preview its hard to be certain of what the set could be. Mence is only a check to non glaciate, Rotom wash and rhyperior can only switch in to physical varients and only a limited amount of times since CB 2HKO rotom wash

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Rotom-Wash: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Also having a very good shot a 3HKO'ing Rhyperior after rocks

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 146-172 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Scarf krook is a nice revenge killer but it has to be brought in on teleport. Slowking can stop V create and slack it off if its max def, but gets dropped by a bolt strike or being u-turned on. Salamence can stonewall all phys varients, but without boots it struggles to keep up and it has to constantly recover giving free switches to the opponent. And thats all I got to say, I now think Victini is S tier worthy because it dosen't have a counter at all, or a consistent one at the very least. It has counters to all of its sets, but having to prep for all 3 potentially strong sets and potentially getting wrecked by them should give victini the S tier.

 

[Afro Smash]

C+ > B/B+

Unsure why Thundurus is sitting in A- while Tornadus is C+

It has a lot of the same great perks as Thundurus in base 111 speed, prankster and great varied movepool which alone are enough to push it higher

Hurricane in general coming off 125 sp atk is unpleasant for majority of the tier to deal with and has no immunities, making it less prediction dependant than Thundurus. Alongside Heat Wave and Knock/Blast it can be equally if not more difficult to switch in to than Thundurus coverage

Utility wise Prankster Tailwind is infinitely better than Prankster T Wave, being by far the best emergency button in the tier, allowing you to rk any relevant sweeper and potentially countersweep after. Its presence really should not be underestimated, it can singlehandedly swing matches, and opponents will need to bear in mind their wincons are indeed only conditional while Tornadus is still alive

Relying on hitting Hurricanes does suck and Zeraora exists, but this mon is great in UU and deserves to be higher