Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet and Violet Speculation Thread

I feel like U-Turn is great for Ray, especially on scarfed sets where it can revenge kill the new Dragon-type box legends (if they themselves aren't scarfed). SR weakness is a big caveat, though, especially since most teams will need to run one of either Koraidon or Miraidon along with Giratina-O to get rid of hazards (which is even more important for Ray). Losing V-Create won't be a big deal for mixed and scarfed sets since they can run Overheat instead (or even enhance it with tera fire if it needs a Fire-type nuke that badly).

I have a feeling that scarfed Ray will be great. It can run tera flying Dragon Ascent as its main nuke, plus Draco for Miraidon and other dragons not named Koraidon (since it's Flying-weak anyway), Overheat for Steels (especially Zacian-C), and U-Turn for momentum. You could also run Espeed in one of the moveslots though the scarf reduces the need for it somewhat, unless you're REALLY scared of scarfed Koraidon/Miraidon.
I can't see either of the new legends running Scarf unless it's for some very specific purpose, because it's way too easy to lose momentum if your opponent correctly predicts one of their STAB moves. That said, it could be that this meta becomes an extremely prediction-heavy meta where winning speed ties and getting the big hits in with choice items becomes more important than preserving momentum, so I readily accept I could be completely off base here. It just seems like giving your opponent lots of possible openings to get free turns is something you want to avoid if at all possible.

Rayquaza would make more sense as a Scarfer because despite its poor damage against Miraidon with Dragon Ascent, its main STAB has no immunities and still chunks things (Miraidon takes about 35%, so it's not like you can just keep tanking it). I also think Earthquake might be better on Rayquaza than Overheat on account of not forcing you out immediately and there being few useful ground immunities in the tier: Overheat is nice on Miraidon in no small part because of the amount of sun in the tier, whereas Rayquaza's ability negates that (and honestly seems more detrimental than useful in general). It needs to run a speed boosting nature because Adamant gets speed crept by Zacian by one point, and also gets outpaced by very relevant threats in Choice Scarf Kyogre and Calyrex-S. I don't think many things faster than Ray are going to be running Scarf; the main speed threat I can think of would be Flutter Mane, and Air Lock fortuitously negates that.

At the end of the day, Zacian-C is still a Fairy/Steel type with an automatic +1 Attack boost when it switches in. Think of how good Xerneas is, yet how it can only really use Geomancy once thanks to Power Herb. I can see Zacian-C being played in a similar way and probably achieving S or S- rank in Ubers. It has a better typing and stats than Xerneas and a similar gimmick in that it gets a one-time boost that needs to be played carefully.
The main downside comapred to Xerneas is less ability to control when you use it. Xerneas could be used defensively or for feints; you can't send in Zacian *at all* until you're ready to wreck face with it without losing a whole chunk of your offensive power, and that's a problem when it's also fairly useful defensively. It makes sense to me to at least go in with a plan of Intrepid Sword being nice to have vs being a core part of your game plan, but make sure you have the means to exploit openings with it.

Zacian-C will be almost mandatory like Yveltal in SS as its like the only steel after ndm gone
Is Steel actually going to be an amazing defensive type in post-Home Ubers? It's actively a liability against Koraidon and Groudon, and it does almost nothing against Miraidon, Kyogre and Calyrex. I think the only things meaningfully impeded by it are opposing Zacian and Rayquaza, and Zacian still hits it neutrally with Behemoth Blade while Rayquaza will always have coverage. For my money, it's actually Zacian's Fairy type alongside its speed tier that makes it indispensable: it gives it a favourable matchup against most of the dragons in the tier and is by far the tankiest fairy that can feasibly outspeed them.

Incidentally, Ruin abilities apparently reduce the relevant stat by 25%, i.e. they basically function as Aura Break-inverted auras but don't apply to the mon exuding them. That's still plenty strong enough for Chien-Pao to make an impact, mind you.
 
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I also think Earthquake might be better on Rayquaza than Overheat on account of not forcing you out immediately and there being few useful ground immunities in the tier: Overheat is nice on Miraidon in no small part because of the amount of sun in the tier, whereas Rayquaza's ability negates that (and honestly seems more detrimental than useful in general).
Well there is one: Giratina-O, which will probably be on most teams as a Defogger. But it's not like the alternative is much better (Overheat would deal pitiful damage against it), and you probably want to run Draco Meteor for opposing dragons anyway .
 

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
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Hey everyone, some time has passed and we've gotten some more information, such as confirming that Orichalchum Pulse and Hadron Engine indeed give a 30% boost to Attack/Special Attack. I'll also assume you have some background knowledge on the general metagame changes, such as the available Pokemon, the much lower distribution of many key moves, and the nerfing of recovery moves PP.

Again, I want to focus on talking about the Pre-Home metagame, because that will be our meta for at least four months + we don't know if moves can be transferred from Home or not (it's currently just speculation although I think it's a pretty likely outcome), as well as what pokemon will be transferable and if the new Virizion and Suicune forms will be relevant.

I won't be talking about terra mechanics since I think it's broken and will be banned relatively quickly. (the first weak or two with it legal will be batshit insane though).

Unfortunately we STILL don't have confirmation about how the Ruin abilities work (its probably something like the stat divided by 1.3 which is like a 25% nerf), which is quite annoying. Speaking of the new Dark-type legendaries, one we should talk about is....



CHIEN-PAO
DARK/ICE
80/120/80/90/65/135

Sword of Ruin

This thing is basically Weavile on crack. Sword of Ruin lowers the Defense of all pokemon on the field except Chien-Pao. In addition to that, it gets Swords Dance and is very fast (the 135 speed tier is super packed this gen... expect a lot of speed ties!). This thing was probably just TOO strong so GameFreak decided to nerf all of the new Dark-type legendaries in the pre-release patch (it used to have 130 attack!). I would imagine a set looking like....

Chien-Pao @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard

With a Swords Dance boost up and Chien-Pao's high speed, this thing is a monster. Ice and Dark-type STAB together is a surprisingly hard combination to switch into. Ice Shard additionally gives it a huge amount of utility, allowing Chien-Pao to revenge kill Miraidon, Koraidon, and Flutter Mane relatively easily without the need to risk a speed tie. I see Heavy-Duty Boots as pretty necessary since this thing is weak to Stealth Rock and vulnerable to all other entry hazards; however, on a HO team, Focus Sash could be viable, too.

Another cool set could be:

Chien-Pao @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch / Sacred Sword
- Ice Shard / Sacred Sword

The immediate power would be quite nice, especially as Ice-type resists are looking to be pretty rare in the tier. The two priority options would give you an easy way to revenge kill the Dragons, Flutter Mane, and Iron Bundle. Sacred Sword could be a niche option to hit Kingambit or some other Steels.

WHAT STOPS IT?

+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 274-324 (68.5 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fortunately, Corviknight does the job fairly well. (Especially considering this calc uses a -1 drop, which is a lot more than what Sword of Ruin probably does).
In fact, I think Corviknight is going to be a staple of Ubers. This is because Corv is one of the few things in the game to get Defog that is actually usable in Ubers (the other being Giratina in the post-home meta). It also provides some clearly useful defensive utility and has reliable recovery.


Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- U-Turn
- Defog
- Roost

I think the classic Corviknight set will work pretty well here. U-Turn makes sure Corv doesn't lose momentum and prevents trapping (for the most part...) from Gothitelle or Magnezone. It could also be useful for the probable Miraidon switch-in, chipping it just enough for Dugtrio to come in and take it out (the classic Pre-Home SS combo makes a return baby!!!!!) Rocky Helmet could also potentially chip Koraidon using Flare Blitz enough for Duggy to KO it as well. Special Defense sets with Leftovers and Iron Head could be another option, as they make for a decent check to....


FLUTTER MANE
GHOST/FAIRY
55/55/55/135/135/135

Protosynthesis


Again, another strong base 135 speed option! Not to mention, under the sun it will get a free speed boost, making it extremely fast. Ghost/Fairy is a very good offensive type combination, being resisted by pretty much nothing in the game currently (I think just the normal/fire lions?). It also gives the added benefit of three immunities, notably letting it switch into Koraidon's STAB options for free (although it gets absolutely annihilated by any coverage option). Honestly, I think this thing will be harder to switch-into than Koraidon, which really says something. Here's the set I had in mind:

Flutter Mane @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Memento / Mystical Fire

Calm Mind is your best boosting option, and from there you can pretty easily just smack anything with your STAB attacks. The last slot looks pretty free; you could run a coverage option, like Psyshock to do ok damage to Blissey and Clodsire, but I think Memento is also great since Flutter Mane is so fast. Mystical Fire could be useful in sun to smack some Steel-types.


WHAT STOPS IT?

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake / Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes
- Toxic
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Recover

I thought this thing looked incredibly mid at first but it's typing and much greater special bulk than quag (130/100) let it comfortably switch into Flutter Mane without much worry:
252 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 126-149 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 49.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Additionally, Clodsire even takes Psyshock comfortably, doing a max of 44%.
And due to being a Ground-type with good Special bulk, Clodsire can kind-of check Miraidon, although it doesn't love a specs Draco to the face:
252 SpA Choice Specs Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 308-363 (66.3 - 78.2%)
Not the best in the world, but decent considering Clodsire does get access to Recover which Ting-Lu doesn't. I think Dugtrio could make a good combo with Clodsire - should Miraidon break through Clodsire using repeated Draco Meteors, then Dugtrio can come in and KO it back (or potentially tank a Draco if Mirai is at -3 or something).

It would normally be passive as shit but thankfully it does get access to all three entry hazards, so all it needs to do is get a chance once to set a hazard and then things are starting to get chipped. Corviknight does indeed hard wall you, but I was thinking a funny way around that would be to just sit there and spam hazards on Corv - even with Pressure, with two hazard types in your toolkit, Corv will run out of Defog PP. Clodsire itself also provides some utility thanks to being able to absorb opposing Toxic Spikes.

A critical flaw of Clodsire is that it's vulnerable to being trapped by Dugtrio, which is a huge downside to it in comparison to Ting-Lu. Ting-Lu also makes for a bulkier switch-in to Miraidon due to its ability giving much greater special bulk, and it has much greater Defense as well.

ANOTHER OPTION:


Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
EVs: 116 HP / 132 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- Sucker Punch

Besides having one of the most badass designs in all of mons, Kingambit shouldn't be underrated in the Ubers tier. While it is slow as balls (base 50!), it has pretty good 100/120/85 bulk and a great defensive typing in Dark/Steel. This is boosted even further since thanks to Sucker Punch, Kingambit really doesn't need to invest much into Speed and can use bulk investment.

An important point to note is that Kingambit has a pretty cool unique ability, Supreme Overlord. With it, Kingambit gets an extra 10% boost to its attacking stats with each of its teammates down, stacking up to a huge 50% boost if Kingambit is the last mon on the field! This is in addition to its already pretty good base 135 Attack stat. I could see Sucker Punch Kingambit being a great way to limit extremely fast sweepers like Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle who are faster than even the vast majority of Choice Scarfers under sun/terrain.

It may seem odd to invest into special bulk with it, but it makes Kingambit a much more reliable switch-in to Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle; resisting Ghost- and Ice-type attacks is something very valuable to have. If the sun is up, Kingambit makes a pretty good switch-in to Iron Bundle, taking Freeze Dry and Hydro Pump without much worry. With the Special Defense investment, Flutter Mane can only 3HKO Kingambit with Moonblast, all while Kingambit threatens a OHKO back with Sucker Punch. Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave are both good options to get some momentum off of Corviknight and Koraidon switch-ins, both of which wall you normally. I've considered Swords Dance, but it seems to be limited by how common Korai and Corv will likely be - however, with some Supreme Overlord boosts, I could see Kingambit being a good cleaner once some mons have fainted on both sides.

Kingambit's only recovery is lefties, but I think it would work well with Scream Tail's Wish support, especially considering Scream Tail invites in Flutter Mane due to not being able to do much to it. It also doubles as a good Chien-Pao check! A more offensive set could work well, maybe something with chople berry... also, using it as a last mon on a HO team is pretty wild in theory.



IRON BUNDLE:
ICE/WATER
56/80/114/124/60/136

Quark Drive

In a tier with four viable base 135 Speed pokemon, Iron Bundle comes in 1 point higher! This by itself gives it a lot of utility, being able to revenge kill and sweep much easier, but it also comes with a great STAB combo in the form of Freeze Dry and Hydro Pump, being nearly unresisted in the whole tier. In terms of bulk, it doesn't come in nearly as frail as Flutter Mane thanks to its 114 defense, which lets it take priority a lot better. This comes at the cost of being weak to Stealth Rock, which is definitely a problem. Here's the set I'm imagining for it:


Iron Bundle @ Choice Specs / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Flip Turn
- Ice Beam

Due to needing to outspeed the base 135s, I don't really see it as possible to run this thing with anything but a Timid nature. To me, Choice Specs seems the most optimal, greatly boosting your 124 base Special Attack (which is good, but not great without a boost). Life Orb also seems good, but the recoil damage in addition to the Stealth Rock weakness is pretty brutal, which is why I've slotted Boots as well. Freeze Dry will nail everything you want Ice-STAB to hit as well as destroy Water-types, while Pump is your strongest option against Ice-type resists. Flip Turn, while not strong, is always a good option to get some momentum. The last slot is honestly just filler, as Bundle doesn't get many good coverage options, so having access to the stronger Ice Beam is useful once Water-types have gone away. With electric terrain up, this thing is faster than everything in the game. Overall I think it will be a huge threat that every team will have to prepare for, especially as its STAB combination works just so well together.It may end up being limited by the Sun that Koraidon brings, nerfing the power of Pump and Flip Turn significantly, as well as it's Stealth Rock weakness, making it chose between power and durability.



DEFENSIVE CORES?:

Keeping in this mind I'm making this post days before the game even comes out, here's my guess at what a common type of Defensive core could look like:

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- U-Turn
- Defog
- Roost

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Ruination / Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Protect

Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Protect

Corviknight provides Defog support and an answer to Chien-Pao, as well as other physical attackers like Kingambit, Donphan, and Ursaluna. Ting-Lu is a strong switch-in to Miraidon, and it won't be passive due to Spikes and its good Attack. I've realized that RestTalk will be impossible in this metagame due to how common Electric Terrain will be, so that's why I've slotted Protect last on it (as well as freeing up a critical moveslot for Spikes). It helps Ting-Lu scout, as well as stall out sun turns should Miraidon try to nail it with Solar Beam. Clodsire could potentially be a decent replacement for Ting-Lu here, as although it checks Miraidon worse and is vulnerable to Dugtrio, it takes on Flutter Mane well and absorbs TSpikes. Physically Defensive Scream Tail is a very strong answer to Koraidon, tanking even boosted Flare Blitz comfortably thanks to the Defense boost in sun. Furthermore, the Wish support it provides could be critical to maintaining Ting-Lu and other mons in a gen when healing only has 8 PP. Fairy/Psychic is a good type to play mindgames with Dragon-types, and it could be useful to keep some of the new mons like Roaring Moon or Iron Valiant (if they are good at all) at bay. Scream Tail is a bit passive so putting Rocks or Twave on it helps a lot. This core would need additional help against Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle, as well as revenge killing capabilities, so your last three slots would likely be more heavily offensive mons that also provide some defensive or speed utility.

Overall though, I think the meta is going to be pretty damn fast and offensive, especially for the first few weeks when terra will be legal. Still I don't think that means there will be no place for defensive counterplay to happen, especially when hazards look so easy to get up (and thus chipping offensive mons that can less afford to run boots). Last gen has showed us that even with monsters that Zacian-C around and dynamax legal, there was still plenty of room for more balanced team structures and for mons like quag to have a niche.



RAPID FIRE:


Wo-Chien
Dark/Grass
85/85/100/95/135/70
Tablets of Ruin


This thing looks pretty cool; its ability lowers the attack of everyone on the field except Wo-Chien, giving it fantastic mixed bulk. It also has access to a lot of rare utility moves, including Knock Off, Foul Play, and good recovery with Leech Seed, so it will be damn annoying to switch-into. In the pre-home meta, I'm not sure how much it could do, since it has trouble checking a lot of top meta threats like Miraidon, Flutter Mane, and Iron Bundle. Perhaps it could be a good Knock Off user for Toxic Spikes teams? It could potentially be really good in the post-home meta, as it can check Groudon and Calyrex (especially if Caly starts running Grass Knot coverage instead of Pollen Puff).


Chi-Yu
Dark/Fire
55/80/80/135/120/100
Beads of Ruin


Seems like the worst of the Dark-type legendaries. Still it's kinda decent tho? 135 Special Attack with Beads of Ruin lowering the special defense of the opposing side is quite strong. Unfortunately 100 speed is a bit mediocre in this meta and it's weak to Stealth Rock. Compared to Iron Moth, it's not as reliant on sun/terrain being up, and it's not weak to Flutter Mane's Psyshock, and it can kinda check Chien-Pao thanks to its typing. Choice Scarf with sun support seems optimal so that you don't get caught by dugtrio, although Specs in sun would be undeniably strong.


Iron Moth
Fire/Poison
80/70/60/140/110/110
Quark Drive


This thing is kinda cool. With quark drive, it'll get a 50% special attack boost in electric terrain, which is prettttty pretty good, and presumably stronger than what Chi-Yu's special defense drop would provide. In Sun, its Fire Blasts would do a lot more damage, meaning Iron Moth likes both Koraidon and Miraidon's abilities and it isn't picky about which one it can abuse or not. Choice Scarf seems like the best bet to me, letting it outspeed most mons and spam fire blast without worry, potentially killing the Dragons should they get chipped down enough. Its Poison-typing gives it some nice resistances and absorbs Toxic Spikes, which could be big if TSpikes become strong. Don't even think about a Quiver Dance set, it doesn't get access to it...


Roaring Moon
Dark/Dragon
105/139/71/55/101/119
Protosynthesis


Idk, this thing seems a bit mid. It has trouble with all of the defensive core I've mentioned above. Sure, in sun you'll get a boost to your attack or speed, but you have some pretty hard 4 move slot syndrome to work with. You want Dragon Dance, both of your stabs, as well as fire fang to hit Corv in sun and Iron Head to hit Fairy-types, and Earthquake to hit poisons, and you can't have it all. It's base 119 speed puts it below the myriad of 135 speed threats in the meta which is also a big hurdle for it to overcome. I think it could have potential but you'd probably have to build a lot around it.

-

GREAT TUSK - IRON TREADS
GROUND/FIGHTING - GROUND/STEEL
115/131/131/53/53/87 - 90/112/120/72/70/106
Protosynthesis - Quark Drive


Not quite sure how these funny fellas will end up. Great Tusk makes for a decent check to Koraidon thanks to the Defense boost it could get in the sun; also, it has access to Stealth Rock, Knock Off, and Rapid Spin, which is pretty good utility. It's 131 attack ain't looking back either, although it would likely be walled by Corviknight. Iron Treads typing looks perfect for Miraidon, and it would have been save for the fact that Miraidon gets Overheat. Still, I think it has potential, maybe on HO squads to take advantage of electric terrain giving it a speed or attack boost, as well as acting as an absorb for a Ditto-copied Miraidon.




Tinkaton
Fairy/Steel
85/75/77/70/105/94
Mold Breaker / Own Tempo / Pickpocket


Alright, hear me out, I think Tinkaton will ACTUALLY be viable in the pre-home meta. Keep in mind, I don't think it'll be top tier by any means, but it could be a potentially viable mon in the lower C tiers. I know we're all disappointed by this thing not having Huge Power as a hidden ability, but you gotta remember that it has the broken Fairy/Steel typing (I think the only one we have pre-home) as well as special bulk rivaling Magearna. It's support movepool is actually pretty good too, having access to the very rare Knock Off as well as Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave.
With special defense investment it does pretty well as a switch-in to Flutter Mane:
252 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tinkaton: 122-146 (32.6 - 39%) -- 8.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It's also a pretty decent switch for Iron Bundle especially if Sun is up, preventing it from spamming Specs Freeze Dry.

Think of Gigaton Hammer's high BP as just giving Tinkaton more offensive pressure than it would have normally, instead of as something meant to break the other team. Given the high BP, I would imagine it does similar damage to a strong Ferrothorn Gyro Ball - not amazing but decent damage especially on frail foes. Overall it's lack of recovery is it's worse point and it will have to rely on Scream Tail's Wish to stay around longer; generally I think other Steel-types like Kingambit are better.

:blissey:
Blissey @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave
- Softboiled

Blissey is back and unfortunately it lost a lot of moves as well as 8 Softboiled PP. However, Blissey still has just enough of what it needs to be useful; it's especially notable as the only cleric in the entire game, having exclusive access to Heal Bell. Seismic Toss, Stealth Rock, and Thunder Wave provide some good ways to gain momentum, and Thunder Wave is notably Blissey's only real way to cripple Flutter Mane (it doesn't have access to Toxic or Confide this gen). Blissey is also a great check to some strong new special attackers like Chi-Yu or Iron Moth, and it walls the hell out of Miraidon and Iron Bundle, despite being bait for Volt Switch or Flip Turn. We'll see how it fairs in the probable fast-paced enviroment.

:masquerain:
Out only half-way decent access to Sticky Webs this generation. Unfortunately it's Speed is pretty low so it's vulnerable to Taunt. Something like Icy Wind/Hydro Pump could maybe help it's matchup against other leads.
:lycanroc:
With stuff like Aerodactyl gone, this is probably the best HO lead out there. Fast and has access to Rocks, Taunt, and Rock Tomb. Endeavor can also be used to potentially get something to 1 HP for free.
:ditto:
This meta is looking pretty fast-paced, so Ditto will likely thrive. The fact that it can copy the boosts of Quark Drive and Protosynthesis is a huge boon for it. Top tier Dragon and Ghost-types mean plenty of sweepers for Ditto to copy and clean up teams.

:grimmsnarl:
If I had to guess, Grimmsnarl looks really damn good. With Ditto likely being common, Grimmsnarl could be a great way for HO teams using Koraidon, Miraidon, and Flutter Mane to prevent ditto from going for the countersweep. It's typing also works well for it here, as the Dragon and Ghost resistances give it nice opportunities to set-up screens.

Ok bye for now maybe I'll write more when I have free time at work:toast:
 
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SiTuM

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MY GOAT MANAPHY CARRYING THE WHOLE UBERS COMMUNITY ON HIS BACK



also we havent spoken about him yet but i think iron valiant is going to be very goddamn good, quite fast, can be physical or special depending on what it needs to beat, effective against both cover legendaries + the 4 dark legendaries, my man is gonna thrive.
 
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An important point to note is that Kingambit has a pretty cool unique ability, Supreme Overlord. With it, Kingambit gets an extra 10% boost to its attacking stats with each of its teammates down, stacking up to a huge 50% boost if Kingambit is the last mon on the field!
Has this actually been confirmed anywhere? I've been looking everywhere for exact numbers on this ability and haven't found a source yet.
 
Icicle Crash
Would it not want to run Ice Spinner instead? You lose the flinch chance and 5 power, but you get 100% accuracy and you can clear Miraidon's terrain with it, the only viable way to do so. Unlike Steel roller, no terrain being active doesn't cause it to fail.
 

Duck Chris

replay watcher
is a Pre-Contributor
I'm excited to see what kind of full team builds we can make with our motorbike pokemon.

Miraidons electric spam should be quite strong and for sure will require multiple electric immunities or risk taking terrain and ability boosted volt switches all day, while pairing well with things like iron hands which has more bulk than Melmetal

Koraidon can make a pretty nasty dragon spam U-turn core with roaring moon and slither wing while boosting the fire fishes moves.

It will also be cool to see what paradox mons are just generally good enough to run without their boosting daddy, and just get that benefit whenever they run into an opposing version.

Post home will really break open the game with spikes groudon Pog
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
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Is it true that Arceus has gotten the same treatment as Giratinas, and the plates are now Key items instead of regular held ones? If that's the case Arceus on a whole just got a lot more annoying to deal with
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Is it true that Arceus has gotten the same treatment as Giratinas, and the plates are now Key items instead of regular held ones? If that's the case Arceus on a whole just got a lot more annoying to deal with
It is too early to tell in my honest opinion. These items seem to be in placeholder/preliminary forms as a couple of them effectively do nothing or just don't work at all. Game Freak has a lot of time to put out a pre-home patch before these Pokemon and items are obtainable and I assume there will be changes by the time home is out.
 
I should also note that as of right now, Dialga/Palkia/Giratina do require held items to be in their alt forms. It's just different held items.
My understanding was that equipping the items makes them transform, but unequipping them doesn't revert the transformation; rather, equipping them again re-triggers it. They're basically structured as key items you can trade.

It would be weird to introduce a new set of items for the purpose of *nerfing* the trio.

(I've not heard anything to suggest Arceus has changed though, and Multitype's description has always specifically required the item to be held.)
 
My understanding was that equipping the items makes them transform, but unequipping them doesn't revert the transformation; rather, equipping them again re-triggers it. They're basically structured as key items you can trade.

It would be weird to introduce a new set of items for the purpose of *nerfing* the trio.

(I've not heard anything to suggest Arceus has changed though, and Multitype's description has always specifically required the item to be held.)
I hope you're right. I'll be disappointed as all hell if their Origin Formes can't have held items -- it'd be a huge nerf to Giratina-O because it'd lose the STAB bonus from Griseous Orb. Then again, this is Game Freak we're talking about. Btw, where did you originally hear about how the PLA orbs work?
 
My understanding was that equipping the items makes them transform, but unequipping them doesn't revert the transformation; rather, equipping them again re-triggers it. They're basically structured as key items you can trade.

It would be weird to introduce a new set of items for the purpose of *nerfing* the trio.

(I've not heard anything to suggest Arceus has changed though, and Multitype's description has always specifically required the item to be held.)
I'm pretty sure that the Adamant Orb, Lustrous Orb and Grisseous Orb are replaced by Adamant Crystal, Lustrous Globe and Grisseous Core respectively. Grisseous Core is completely identical to Grisseous Orb, buffing Giratina's STABs by 20% and giving Giratina his Origin Forme. Adamant Crystal buffs Dialga's STABs by 20% and gives him his Origin Forme. Lustrous Globe buffs Palkia's STABs by 20% and gives him his Origin Forme.

So they did buff Dialga and Palkia slightly by making their signature held items do more than buffing their STABs by 20%. In Palkia's case, the held item also slightly buffs Speed, whereas in Dialga's case, the held item also slightly buffs Sdef.
 

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