OU SPL XIII BW Discussion Thread

[FNH]

Hey BW Community! With SPL XIII underway, this thread will be used to discuss BW related topics, whether it's about the players, general metagame trends, matches, predictions and so on. This thread will be updated frequently with each new week, player standings, and replays.

So what can we expect to happen? What will change in the meta game? Some common thoughts was the nonsense continue could continue! I personally wouldn't bet on players pulling up a full yolo cheese when the season starts, but clicking accept with a Psyspam loaded could also pose a potential risk of your opponent throwing caution to wind and bringing the bug. Psyspam's run of dominance last SPL came under contention when a 6 year old team kicked the lid off the coffin with support of "top players"; garnering a meme level fame and absurd usage statistics. The Volcarona centered Hyper offense's popularity further gave rise to derivative offense teams all attempting the cheese their opponent, see Cloyster HO. The nonsense introduced chaos in the meta and fueled heated(?) debates amongst players on the actual quality of play and the BW council banning luck based items (Kings Rock). If you have in recent months sucumbed to the boredom, and laddered in BW OU, you mighthave noticed that the nonsense Hyper Offense trend has taken over the ladder. I would hesitate to assume that the ladder's trends represent the actual meta, but the question still remains before the season kicks off: what the hell are we going to expect to see here in these opening weeks? Does the nonsense continue? Or have the top minds of BW secretly cracked the code, leaving us casuals in the dark on what's the next step the metagame takes?

SPL Commencement Thread
SPL XIII SpreadSheet
SPL XIII Administrative decisions

Auction Results:

Likely BW Starters: (in bold)
Possible Players (not bolded)

Alpha ruiners - Dice / MANNAT / BluBird

Circus Maximus Tigers - Finchinator / Eternal Spirit / Separation

Cryonicles - Stareal / Conflict / Ojama

Congregation of the Classiest - Soulwind

DragonSpiral Tyrants - Gilbert Arenas / Frisoeva / Tsunami / RubyBlood

Evergrande Bigs - Watashi / Samqian

Indie Scooters - Peng / Vulpix03

Stark Sharks - Crucify / Jirachee

Team Raiders - Elodin /Jimmy Turtwig / Shoka

Wifi Wolfpack - GarytheGengar / eden

Usage Stats

No one has played yet...

Power Rankings

TBD

 

[Gamer1234556]

Go! Peng! Go!

 

[Paulluxx]

Incredibly solid pool this time around, kinda sad my boy Monai didn’t get drafted but really excited to see the innovations.

 

[FNH]

Incredibly solid pool this time around, kinda sad my boy Monai didn’t get drafted but really excited to see the innovations.

Plenty of returning verterans this year (GarytheCarry, Finch, Watashi, Dice, SW, Elodin), with some new(er?) faces as well. Gonna be a great year none the less! Hoping for Peng to load up Rotom-base week 1 (jk).

 

[Gamer1234556]

Plenty of returning verterans this year (GarytheCarry, Finch, Watashi, Dice, SW, Elodin), with some new(er?) faces as well. Gonna be a great year none the less! Hoping for Peng to load up Rotom-base week 1 (jk).

Or maybe load up something cooler like Rotom-Mow or Rotom Heat.

 

[lezzz_goo]

OJAMA IS BACK!!!!

 

[xray]

OJAMA IS BACK!!!!

 

[peng]

scoot

solid set of guys this year, looking forward to some good games!

 

[FNH]

I know I speak for all the others when I say how excited I am with the opportunity of having to completely redo the viability rankings and all the samples teams in 9 weeks.

 

[Gamer1234556]

Lol RIP Baton Pass from now on...

 

[peng]

react to vote which rotom should i use against soulwind

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[Goootzinho]

Week 1 Review ​

Watashi vs Crucify :
Highlight of the week to me as watashi showed an amazing display.
First I really liked watashi’s team since it mixed offensive surprise factors (Custap Tar, Sub Exca) with broken stuff such as Zam but mostly Reuniclus. This team is even refreshing as watashi succeeded to slot pokemon like jellicent and exca and overcome their “weaknesses” with intelligent solutions and underappreciated sets.
Talking about Reuniclus, the blob was played perfectly by watashi, dancing around Ttar and its crunch/pursuit like I’ve never seen. I am a huge admirer of reuniclus (though i think he would deserve at least a discussion) myself and it was great it performed like that.
Crucify too brought a refreshing team which is always something to praise, however I'm not sure Toxic-Gliscor was a great mon to bring against someone that is inclined to play Reuniclus. Still a great game from Crucify making the game tight till the very end.

Finchinator vs Dice :
Though I'm not sure BP is broken as hell in BW, it sure proved how uncompetitive it is as Dice lost the game making only one mistake. Nothing much else to say ig.

Marcop vs Elodin :
A boring sand vs smurf you might say, however the game provided us with two new techs, having both different outcomes.
Elodin brought a Sash Garchomp when I think the standard set was Yache berry. But now that people are prepared for this team archetype, it is very rare that Garchomp has more than two turns to shine, and here comes the sash. Sash Garchomp turned the tables on Marcop Latios as Elodin's Garchomp not only survived and put the rocks up, but also managed to shine for 3 turns as Marcop couldn’t stay on latios at -4 and make it a set-up fodder. This slight change gave elodin the edge.
On the other hand, Marcop’s attempt to outplay potential BP teams with dragon tail costs them the game. Even though it is really the miss that cost the game, first it looks like an overpreparation against a playstyle that had 1 appearance in recent history, and second this move would still have allowed volc to come back later unlike a move like T-Wave.

Stareal vs GtG :
A rain ditto not decided by scald burns !!
Yet again a strong display by GtG, it looked like they were ahead the whole game allowing to sr + spike first, spin first, and to set-up gyarados. Tbh the game would not have been that close if it wasn’t for the hax.
Notice that out of 3 politoed this week, 2 of them were scarf including GtG’s toed. So it seems clear to me that GtG was not planning on scald burn at all to win with rain, which is invigorating.

Peng vs Soulwind :
When I first saw Keldeo’s Peng against Soulwind’s team, I started to imagine an upset. Yet the fact that Peng’s Toed was scarfed combined with Soulwind gamesense made it so that Peng lost the weather war and the game.
Nonetheless, Pepaya Berry + Icy wind Keld made me fall off my chair and even though the game was still over, I’m glad we could have witnessed Peng’s genius.

Overall thoughts on this week :
I also noticed 2/2 non CM’s Reuniclus, maybe a sign of an adaptation to Offense ?
The team archetypes were diversified which is nice to see from a viewer’s perspective.
Finally we also witnessed some amazing displays this week, a lot of innovation, so thanks to the players and their team for having provided us with a lot of work !

 

[Finchinator]

I also noticed 2/2 non CM’s Reuniclus, maybe a sign of an adaptation to Offense ?

I would actually say that LO 3A Recover Reuniclus has been better than CM since the end of SPL last year, if not since it’s debut w4 of last SPL. The CM sets are still respectable, but the immediate power and lack of free turn requirements for the tank Reuniclus is really appealing in a more aggressive metagame where each turn holds greater weight. Doing this while soaking status and sitting all over Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, etc. is very appealing for some Sands.

I’d say one of the bigger breakthroughs from w1 had to be the emergence of more CM Jirachi as a Rain win condition. While it did not necessarily win any games, it always has been pretty underrated with BoltBeam (or PulseBeam) coverage. It’s cool to see modern Rain structures vary and it will be interesting to see how they continue to.

 

[Gamer1234556]

Yea CM Jirachi is really showing up a lot more on Rain. I like it a lot because it's probably one of the few Rain mons that actually has a very good matchup against Alakazam Spikes. Maybe we might see a sample team of Calm Mind Rachi Rain someday in the future?

Edit #1: Another thing I noticed is that both teams also happened to have Scarf Politoed with Encore. I think the general reason for that is to shore up the inherent Gastro weakness that CM Rachi comes with (especially since a lot of CM Rachi can't really afford Grass Knot or Energy Ball).

 

[Finchinator]

Edit #1: Another thing I noticed is that both teams also happened to have Scarf Politoed with Encore. I think the general reason for that is to shore up the inherent Gastro weakness that CM Rachi comes with (especially since a lot of CM Rachi can't really afford Grass Knot or Energy Ball).

You tend to see Toxic (be it on Politoed, Tentacruel via Toxic or Toxic Spikes, or elsewhere) for Gastrodon on SubRachi teams. This also helps with chipping down Tyranitar as well.

Encore has been common on Scarf Politied for a lot of reasons for a while now though, especially since the sleep ban and Hypnosis was not longer an option. It’s very practical for Rain to be able to deter things like CM Reuniclus, CM Latias, NP Celebi, and even CM Jirachi from setting up. Encore can help limit them and buy you some time. You tend to see Scarf Politoed running Encore, 2 attacks, and a filler like Toxic more often than not nowadays because of this.

 

[Gamer1234556]

Also, how does one go by EVing Custap Tar? this was something I was thinking about for a bit during Watashi's game.

 

[Finchinator]

Also, how does one go by EVing Custap Tar? this was something I was thinking about for a bit during Watashi's game.

Really depends on the team. I tend to like adding a little into defense as it helps tanking EQ from Chomp and most Scarf Landorus-T, even after SR. Certain benchmarks can also help with things like CB KB, which can totally shift the tempo early game against DragMag. Otherwise, you EV it similarly to Chople as eating Draco from Lati or singular Focus Blasts from Zam/Reun can still be clutch.

 

[peng]

Nonetheless, Pepaya Berry + Icy wind Keld made me fall off my chair and even though the game was still over, I’m glad we could have witnessed Peng’s genius.

Just an fyi payapa + icy wind keld isn't my creation, definitely stole the idea from replays in 2021

 

[Nalorium]

(
(please forgive us for our poor logo, it is our first program and we are humble)

Welcome everyone to this first show of 10 AWESOME FACTS
(About SPL) (BW Mainly) (I dont rly care ab exiline vs chuva for rby) (rby is cool tho, freezes)

Im gonna try to make this every week just to have some fun and show some cool statistics

NUMBER 1: THE FETUS TAKES CONTROL OF BW OVERUSED

Against ... no predictions? I think everyone expected it, that thing is broken, reuniclus so far has a 100% Winrate in the 2 weeks so far.


NUMBER 2: THE STARS DO NOT ALWAYS SHINE

Our beloved by all, jirachi, with his funny Sub CM set in rain has a total of 0 wins in 3 attempts. Will this be the end of jirachi? or just no luck with his MU's? (luck / jirachi, haha funny)

NUMBER 3: NO ONE BATHES TODAY

In a total of 20 teams we have only seen 2 Rotom-Wash, this is important because for SPL XI in week 2 we already had a total of 5 rotom-wash. Doesn't this new meta favor our favorite washing machine?

NUMBER 4: SKARM > FERRO

Ferrothorn is probably at its worst moment in years, not only has very little of that but also only has 1 win and that was in a ferro vs ferro. Parallel to this we are seeing a huge increase in skarmory, apparently being the best spiker currently in sands and gives something that ferrothorn doesn't, the power of whirlwind.

NUMBER 5: DOGS HAVE GONE OUT OF FASHION

This new kind of sand archetypes have meant for landorus a hard moment. Now gliscor is the king of the hill, will we see new sands focused on beating these psyspam with gliscor? or is there no return for this and gliscor has become way more superior to landorus?

WANTED

WE OFFER 100 POKEDOLLARS TO ANYONE WHO GIVES US INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR WHEREABOUTS.






​

 

[Fakee]

approved by FNH

Overall Usage l Week 1 l Week 2 l Week 3 l Week 4 l Week 5 l Week 6 l Week 7 l Week 8 l Week 9 l Semifinals l Finals​

Overall Usage

BW OU

Leads / Combos / Moves + Teammates

Overall Usage

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Tyranitar          |    9 |  45.00% |  44.44% |
| 2    | Ferrothorn         |    8 |  40.00% |  12.50% |
| 3    | Alakazam           |    7 |  35.00% |  57.14% |
| 3    | Politoed           |    7 |  35.00% |  28.57% |
| 3    | Tentacruel         |    7 |  35.00% |  28.57% |
| 6    | Gliscor            |    6 |  30.00% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Latios             |    6 |  30.00% |  33.33% |
| 6    | Keldeo             |    6 |  30.00% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Skarmory           |    5 |  25.00% |  80.00% |
| 9    | Excadrill          |    5 |  25.00% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Dragonite          |    4 |  20.00% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Jirachi            |    4 |  20.00% |  25.00% |
| 13   | Reuniclus          |    3 |  15.00% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Garchomp           |    3 |  15.00% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Scizor             |    3 |  15.00% |  66.67% |
| 13   | Magnezone          |    3 |  15.00% |  33.33% |
| 13   | Rotom-Wash         |    3 |  15.00% |  33.33% |
| 13   | Landorus-Therian   |    3 |  15.00% |  33.33% |
| 13   | Thundurus-Therian  |    3 |  15.00% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Aerodactyl         |    2 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Volcarona          |    2 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Breloom            |    2 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Gastrodon          |    2 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Jellicent          |    2 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Mew                |    2 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Azelf              |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Bisharp            |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Metagross          |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Starmie            |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Mamoswine          |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Gyarados           |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Celebi             |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Hydreigon          |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 26   | Seismitoad         |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 26   | Latias             |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 26   | Tornadus           |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 26   | Amoonguss          |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 26   | Terrakion          |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |

 

[Fakee]

Overall Usage l Week 1 l Week 2 l Week 3 l Week 4 l Week 5 l Week 6 l Week 7 l Week 8 l Week 9 l Semifinals l Finals​

Week 1

BW OU

Leads / Combos / Moves + Teammates

Week 1

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Tyranitar          |    4 |  40.00% |  50.00% |
| 1    | Latios             |    4 |  40.00% |  50.00% |
| 1    | Politoed           |    4 |  40.00% |  25.00% |
| 1    | Tentacruel         |    4 |  40.00% |  25.00% |
| 1    | Ferrothorn         |    4 |  40.00% |  25.00% |
| 6    | Alakazam           |    3 |  30.00% |  66.67% |
| 6    | Excadrill          |    3 |  30.00% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Reuniclus          |    2 |  20.00% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Skarmory           |    2 |  20.00% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Dragonite          |    2 |  20.00% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Gliscor            |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Scizor             |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Rotom-Wash         |    2 |  20.00% |   0.00% |
| 8    | Jirachi            |    2 |  20.00% |   0.00% |
| 8    | Keldeo             |    2 |  20.00% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Jellicent          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Azelf              |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Mew                |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Bisharp            |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Metagross          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Garchomp           |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Volcarona          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Breloom            |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Starmie            |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Mamoswine          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Gyarados           |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Magnezone          |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Seismitoad         |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Latias             |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Tornadus           |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Landorus-Therian   |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Thundurus-Therian  |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |

Overall Usage l Week 1 l Week 2 l Week 3 l Week 4 l Week 5 l Week 6 l Week 7 l Week 8 l Week 9 l Semifinals l Finals​

Week 2

BW OU

Leads / Combos / Moves + Teammates

Week 2

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Tyranitar          |    5 |  50.00% |  40.00% |
| 2    | Gliscor            |    4 |  40.00% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Alakazam           |    4 |  40.00% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Keldeo             |    4 |  40.00% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Ferrothorn         |    4 |  40.00% |   0.00% |
| 6    | Skarmory           |    3 |  30.00% |  66.67% |
| 6    | Politoed           |    3 |  30.00% |  33.33% |
| 6    | Tentacruel         |    3 |  30.00% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Garchomp           |    2 |  20.00% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Gastrodon          |    2 |  20.00% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Excadrill          |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Magnezone          |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Landorus-Therian   |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Thundurus-Therian  |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Jirachi            |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Dragonite          |    2 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Latios             |    2 |  20.00% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Celebi             |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Rotom-Wash         |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Hydreigon          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Reuniclus          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Scizor             |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Breloom            |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Volcarona          |    1 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Mew                |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Amoonguss          |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Terrakion          |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Jellicent          |    1 |  10.00% |   0.00% |

 

[Gamer1234556]

SPOON NATION!!!!

Also, pretty curious to see Aerodactyl having 2 uses so far. Maybe we might end up seeing more HO teams with a suicide lead such as Azelf. I think Sash Chomp, Boom Lando-T and Terrakion are also interesting choices in the slot too. Who knows?

 

[FNH]

I would like to point out that a team chat with Raiza, Shoka, Jimmy Turtwig, Elodin, and Luck>skill, all excellent BW players, have managed to come up with Smurf HO week 1 and reusing the same 3 year old Psyspam the following two weeks. A+ for creativity / A for effort

 

[Conflict]

I would like to point out that a team chat with Raiza, Shoka, Jimmy Turtwig, Elodin, and Luck>skill, all excellent BW players, have managed to come up with Smurf HO week 1 and reusing the same 3 year old Psyspam the following two weeks. A+ for creativity / A for effort

Have you ever teamed with elodin?

Its no surprise that happened to the team that starts papai noel.....

 

[dice]

General thoughts:

*It feels really difficult to run sand teams that don't get washed by Volcarona, Cloyster and friends. Offense has maintained a consistently oppressive beast, much to the dismay of us bulky sand users. This past week in particular showed a lot of rain, and this makes plenty of sense: it has far more built-in checks to offense with plenty of power to boot. Tentacruel remains one of the best and most oppressive defensive Pokemon in the tier.

*Matchup elements of the tier are being exacerbated by Rain dittos and same-y structures as a whole. Is it the tier that's flawed, or are we seeing some poor team picks? The real answer: probably both, but we'll see.

*Teams are way too comfortably and consistently weak to Thundurus-T. Especially rain teams that don't have a Latios of their own.

*Finchinator's Alakazam rain might be emblematic of future trends: repurposing Alakazam and Magic Guard sands, which are still by and large some of the strongest elements of the tier, to have more robust counterplay against traditional offenses.

*As a whole, it really feels like players haven't ironed out the best strategies yet and are still figuring out how to find their footing. Ancedotally, I struggle striking the balance of defensive counterplay, novelty, and proactivity in my teams. In many cases, I have to make strong concessions and mix up my resources to avoid being 'matchup'ed'. While I do believe the tier can foster tighter and smarter builds, and I do recognize spaces for improvement and optimization, I would suggest that there is a certain, intangible "off"ness about the balance of this tier.

*Gems are really fucking good.