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SPL XII - Commencement Thread
- Thread starter Wigglytuff
- Start date
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God I love Bushtush
that makes one of us!! haha
Today at 2:06 am (CEST) a double sub was forced by the tour hosts resulting in both Luigi and xray being subbed out of their ORAS game in what was a very important week for both the Sharks and Raiders, after Luigi refused to play on any weekday no matter the time and xray refused to play later than his morning Saturday/Sunday. We would like to complain officially regarding this decision and request that this post be seriously looked at by the Host and the TD teams as a direct criticism of everyone involved.
Regarding the decision:
First off we would like to highlight various different points brought up in the post which outlined how the decision to force a double sub had been reached.
Regarding the second part of this statement, yes this argument should still apply. This just shows how flexible xray was willingly to be to get this game done whole on the other hand Luigi offered absolutely no compromises, made no suggestions and did want to avoid a double sub at all, it’s almost as if he wanted a double sub. The entire point of offering times that your opponent wouldn’t really think you could play at on a day they said they could not play on, is to find a time that just maybe they could play. It’s not common for players to not ask if their opponents can play at 4 am their time since they automatically assume it’s unreasonable.
It is also no surprise that many people didn't agree with your decision just based off of the amount of haha reacts and backlash in the Stour discord on the decision made in the Administrative Thread
Regarding future precedent:
The future precedent that is being set is just wrong. If Player A can just say that he/she can only play on the days that Player B outlined couldn’t work, forcing a double substitute becomes very easy to abuse. Despite the fact that Player B has showed way more initiative to get the game done, it’s simply ignored off of the basis that Player A refuses to play on days Player B can.
If I were to let’s say play Fear in SPL and I know that my team has a very competent sub in the back for GSC and Fear’s team does not, I could simply force a double sub by lying/being stubborn to give my team much higher odds of winning that GSC game.
This could be easily abused in future tournaments, and this is something we don't really want.
This decision also sets quite a large precedent on the argument of whether offering to play on weekends is more valuable than weekdays. The statement that is being made is basically if you offer to play on Sunday you cannot be forced to be subbed out, which is just a bad statement to make. Seeing how the hosts turned a blind eye to basically every other factor that wasn’t Monday-Friday vs Saturday-Sunday, the line that is being treaded is a very dangerous one.
Regarding the decision:
First off we would like to highlight various different points brought up in the post which outlined how the decision to force a double sub had been reached.
This statement is far from the truth. Xray did not offer to play on “almost all the weekdays” but he was willingly to play at basically any time from Monday-Friday and was also fine with playing early his mornings on Saturday as a compromise for Luigis schedule. Despite the fact that Luigi has always played his OST games (with the help of extensions) on Mondays, Tuesdays or Wednesdays he quickly refused to play on literally any weekday on the basis of vague interchanging excuses such as, work, school, being tired, not having enough time to prep, etc.Perry said:
Despite the fact that xray offered to play in 5 days at nearly any time, this wasn’t enough to force a single substitute which was beyond thick witted but there is actually more to the story. Xray was the one offering times to Luigi throughout the entire week, xray was the one who contacted the Hosts and xray was the one who was trying to avoid the double substitute. Luigi made no significant effort to get his game done but instead instantly decided that a double substitute was needed the moment xray said he couldn’t play after Saturday/Sunday. This is clearly seen in these logsPerry said:
We don’t see a problem with taking Luigi’s OST XVII extensions into consideration, as you have to note that since the last 4 rounds of OST XVII Luigi has always been granted an extension and somehow always manages to play on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. Is it really xrays fault that his opponent was forced to reschedule onto a Wednesday (a day where he could have played him) for an OST round that should have been completed last week? The answer is quite frankly no, its Luigi’s. The topic of preparation is also brought up as Luigi claimed he would not have much time to prep at all, but the same would apply to xray if they had played on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday since xray also has to deal with university and a project that he had to submit till Saturday morning.Perry said:
Regarding the second part of this statement, yes this argument should still apply. This just shows how flexible xray was willingly to be to get this game done whole on the other hand Luigi offered absolutely no compromises, made no suggestions and did want to avoid a double sub at all, it’s almost as if he wanted a double sub. The entire point of offering times that your opponent wouldn’t really think you could play at on a day they said they could not play on, is to find a time that just maybe they could play. It’s not common for players to not ask if their opponents can play at 4 am their time since they automatically assume it’s unreasonable.
It is also no surprise that many people didn't agree with your decision just based off of the amount of haha reacts and backlash in the Stour discord on the decision made in the Administrative Thread
Regarding future precedent:
The future precedent that is being set is just wrong. If Player A can just say that he/she can only play on the days that Player B outlined couldn’t work, forcing a double substitute becomes very easy to abuse. Despite the fact that Player B has showed way more initiative to get the game done, it’s simply ignored off of the basis that Player A refuses to play on days Player B can.
If I were to let’s say play Fear in SPL and I know that my team has a very competent sub in the back for GSC and Fear’s team does not, I could simply force a double sub by lying/being stubborn to give my team much higher odds of winning that GSC game.
This could be easily abused in future tournaments, and this is something we don't really want.
This decision also sets quite a large precedent on the argument of whether offering to play on weekends is more valuable than weekdays. The statement that is being made is basically if you offer to play on Sunday you cannot be forced to be subbed out, which is just a bad statement to make. Seeing how the hosts turned a blind eye to basically every other factor that wasn’t Monday-Friday vs Saturday-Sunday, the line that is being treaded is a very dangerous one.
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I have proof that Luigi blatantly lied about his availability. He claimed that he could only play on Saturday and Sunday, with the excuse that he only has time to play his OST series in the week. However, when asked when he would like to play a BO3 series for another tournament, he is just fine playing on a weekday, while allegedly only having time for SPL in the weekend. The logs below were verified by an SPL host.
It is completely unreasonable for xray to be forced to sub out on the basis of not having matching availability with Luigi while the latter is able to play for multiple other tournaments during xray's availability.
xray included his Saturday morning as a time he offered to play, so there is still a little time to fix this. If not, I propose an activity win for the Sharks based on what was outlined in this post in addition to M Dragon's.
Note: The contents in this post come from myself, not my managers nor xray, as they are sleeping at the time of this post.
This shows that Luigi did in fact have time during weekdays and sabotaged scheduling attempts from both xray and the hosts by lying about his availability.Perry said:
This point now falls flat because Luigi had time to play for tournaments other than OST as well, just not SPL.Perry said:
If you look at the logs, you'll see that Luigi had time to play at 4 AM GMT+1 (my timezone, same as xray's) in the week. This means that these unreasonable times for xray do matter, as Luigi was in fact able to play at this time.Perry said:
It is completely unreasonable for xray to be forced to sub out on the basis of not having matching availability with Luigi while the latter is able to play for multiple other tournaments during xray's availability.
xray included his Saturday morning as a time he offered to play, so there is still a little time to fix this. If not, I propose an activity win for the Sharks based on what was outlined in this post in addition to M Dragon's.
Note: The contents in this post come from myself, not my managers nor xray, as they are sleeping at the time of this post.
It does not matter if Luigi was available for twenty three different tournament matches, that does not equal availability for SPL. Our decision, which was totally correct and not subject to any scrutiny, was correct.
Truly Yours,
SPL Hosts
Truly Yours,
SPL Hosts
luigi's manager here. He is busy from 4 am to 3:35 am your time. So only a 25 minute window to play. He has family time to worry about not some child’s game. However he plays it to establish dominance since it’s the only joy in life he gets outside of said family time. If you cannot respect this request for time frame then I will claim activity win against your camp. Sorry not sorry
(could yall stop acting like the hosts are gods with impeccable judgement, theres conflicting sides to this story and the hosts chose one side. its fine if you want to express your disagreement like ruft did but please have civility and be respectful. we play this game for fun. mad respect for the hosts btw, i cant imagine doing smthng like this for free, esp w real life obligations and stuff.)
edit: ty for the free reaction score haha'rs really appreciated
edit: ty for the free reaction score haha'rs really appreciated
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I am not quoting M Dragon's post because Ruft's is what prompted me to post, however my post addresses some of the points he brought up as well.
Let's start by making clear that reasoning for not being available in a certain timeframe during the week should never be considered in the decisions like these because any player can lie about their availabilities, just like Luigi could've lied about him not being able to play in the weekdays to force xray to play in the weekend / force a sub, xray could also have lied about him not being able in the weekend to force Luigi to play before the weekend / force a sub. Either player getting subbed out without it being a double sub would set a precedent much worse than the one M Dragon outlined, you could just lie about your weekend (or weekdays) availability to force your opponent to either play earlier in the week or sub out if they're not available in the weekday (or weekend respectively), either way getting a bigger advantage than a double sub. Secondly, Luigi never said his excuse for not playing was that he only had time to play OST during the week, he always stated that the reason for him not wanting / being able to play in the weekdays were school and work related reasons (so time in the weekdays being invested in school and work but also him being tired as a consequence of it). You in your post described it well enough, ''while allegedly only having time for SPL in the weekend'': being available to play for SPL and being available to play for dpplooneytunestournament#34 or even OST is very different. The preparation going into this SPL game, especially considering the importance of this week, requires way more time being invested than other tournaments: Luigi already had his teams ready for his OST series since it was an extension, so no / very small amount of prep during this past week went into OST, while playing for dpplooneytunestournament#34 requires minimal / no preparation to begin with. For this exact reason you never see many SPL games (if any at all) being played in the first 4 days of the week, whereas those same SPL players are eager to play on monday / tues / weds for other minor tournaments. Saying Luigi could've easily played for SPL because he was available to play in a filler dpp tournament that requires no prep or any tipe of care / focus or even OST is very misleading.
I don't know if you're kidding or being serious with the last part of this post, despite everything we as Raiders would've accepted us subbing and xray not being subbed if the hosts / TDs deemed it necessary just to avoid all the drama, but you guys getting activity win over this would be straight up idiotic: there was no way we as a team could've avoided what happened, we just followed the host instructions, if the hosts ruled this a single sub from our side, despite not agreeing with it, we would've made the sub quickly (instead of trying to sway the public opinion, which seems like the most optimal thing to do to have it your way lately) so the game would've gotten played.
great joke i really enjoyed it
no DOU, completely illegitimate tournament no matter who wins. absolute sham, yall are fake champs. try using 2 mons and see how it goes
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