Gen 7 SM Monotype

[Mateeus]

Banner by Moosical

USUM Monotype is the official Monotype metagame for Gen 7. It stands out itself from the other past generations for being the first ever Monotype metagame to be official, and is praised by many players as the most balanced one. Because of that, it is the most relevant old gen in the tournament scene.​

Notably Different Mechanics from Gen 8:

• Defog doesn’t remove Terrains
• Teleport has no in-battle use
• Z-Moves, Mega Evolutions and all Pokemon from previous gens up to 7 exist
• Almost every Pokemon has access to Hidden Power and Toxic
• Frustration, Hidden Power, Return and Pursuit are usable moves
• Rapid Spin is 20 BP and does not increase Speed by 1 stage

Notably Different Mechanics from Gen 6:

• Speed is decided right AFTER mega evolution, not 1 turn later
• Mega Evolutions are only allowed on a type if the typing is shared with its original form. For example, Mega Altaria is allowed on Dragon, but not on Flying or Fairy
• Burn deals 6% damage each turn, as opposed to 12%
• Pelipper and Torkoal have access to Drizzle and Drought respectively; Gengar loses Levitate

Banlist

Viability Rankings:

VR

Bug

S Rank

Volcarona

A Rank

Armaldo

Forretress

Galvantula

Heracross

Mega Pinsir

Mega Scizor

Scizor

B Rank

Araquanid

Buzzwole

Mega Heracross

C Rank

Ribombee

Scolipede

Shuckle

Yanmega

D Rank

Durant

Vivillon

Dark

S Rank

Greninja

Mandibuzz

Muk-Alola

A Rank

Hydreigon

Mega Sableye

Tyranitar

B Rank

Krookodile

Mega Tyranitar

Weavile

C Rank

Bisharp

Crawdaunt

Mega Houndoom

Mega Sharpedo

D Rank

Cacturne

Honchkrow

Dragon

S Rank

Dragonite

Garchomp

Kommo-o

Kyurem-Black

A Rank

Latias

Latios

Mega Altaria

B Rank

Dragalge

Hydreigon

C Rank

Mega Latias

Mega Latios

D Rank

Druddigon

Electric

S Rank

Tapu Koko

Zeraora

A Rank

Raichu-Alola

Rotom-Wash

Zapdos

B Rank

Golem-Alola

Magnezone

Thundurus

C Rank

Rotom-Mow

D Rank

Mega Manectric

Raikou

Xurkitree

Fairy

S Rank

Klefki

Mega Diancie

Tapu Bulu

Tapu Koko

A Rank

Azumarill

Clefable

Mimikyu

B Rank

Ribombee

Togekiss

C Rank

Primarina

Tapu Fini

D Rank

Gardevoir

Fighting

S Rank

Kommo-o

Mega Gallade

Terrakion

A Rank

Cobalion

Keldeo

B Rank

Breloom

Buzzwole

Heracross

Infernape

C Rank

Hawlucha

Lucario

Toxicroak

D Rank

Mega Heracross

Fire

S Rank

Mega Charizard-X

A Rank

Blacephalon

Heatran

Infernape

Rotom-Heat

Torkoal

B Rank

Volcarona

Victini

C Rank

Marowak-Alola

Mega Charizard-Y

Volcanion

D Rank

Entei

Flying

S Rank

Celesteela

Landorus-Therian

A Rank

Dragonite

Gliscor

Mega Aerodactyl

Thundurus-Therian

Tornadus-Therian

B Rank

Aerodactyl

Landorus

Mega Charizard-Y

Zapdos

C Rank

Hawlucha

Mantine

Togekiss

D Rank

Articuno

Skarmory

Thundurus

Ghost

S Rank

Mega Sableye

Mimikyu

A Rank

Blacephalon

Gengar

Marowak-Alola

B Rank

Decidueye

Jellicent

Shedinja

C Rank

Cofagrigus

Golurk

Hoopa

Dhelmise

D Rank

Froslass

Gourgeist-Super

Grass

S Rank

Ferrothorn

Mega Venusaur

A Rank

Breloom

Whimsicott

B Rank

Celebi

Decidueye

C Rank

Cradily

Serperior

Tapu Bulu

D Rank

Rotom-Mow

Ground

S Rank

Excadrill

Landorus

A Rank

Garchomp

Gastrodon

Hippowdon

Mamoswine

Mega Steelix

Seismitoad

B Rank

Gliscor

Mega Garchomp

C Rank

Krookodile

Landorus-Therian

Nidoking

D Rank

Diggersby

Dugtrio

Mega Camerupt

Quagsire

Ice

S Rank

Kyurem-Black

Mamoswine

Ninetales-Alola

A Rank

Cloyster

Piloswine

Sandslash-Alola

Weavile

B Rank

Avalugg

Lapras

Rotom-Frost

C Rank

Cryogonal

Froslass

Walrein

D Rank

Articuno

Normal

S Rank

Ditto

Chansey

Porygon2

Staraptor

A Rank

Diggersby

Mega Lopunny

Mega Pidgeot

Porygon-Z

B Rank

Bewear

Meloetta

C Rank

Smeargle

Snorlax

D Rank

Heliolisk

Poison

S Rank

Crobat

Mega Venusaur

Muk-Alola

Toxapex

A Rank

Nidoking

Nihilego

B Rank

Gengar

Salazzle

Scolipede

C Rank

Nidoqueen

D Rank

Dragalge

Skuntank

Psychic

S Rank

Victini

A Rank

Celebi

Deoxys-Speed

Latios

Mega Gallade

Metagross

Mew

B Rank

Alakazam

Jirachi

Latias

Mega Latios

C Rank

Mega Gardevoir

Mega Latias

Mega Slowbro

Meloetta

Reuniclus

Slowbro

D Rank

Deoxys-Defense

Mega Alakazam

Rock

S Rank

Mega Diancie

Shuckle

Terrakion

Tyranitar

A Rank

Cradily

Golem-Alola

Nihilego

B Rank

Omastar

Rhyperior

C Rank

Mega Aerodactyl

Mega Tyranitar

Minior

Stakataka

D Rank

Diancie

Lycanroc-Dusk

Steel

S Rank

Celesteela

Heatran

A Rank

Excadrill

Ferrothorn

Magnezone

Mega Scizor

B Rank

Bisharp

Jirachi

C Rank

Cobalion

Klefki

Lucario

Stakataka

Skarmory

D Rank

Bronzong

Empoleon

Water

S Rank

Greninja

Toxapex

A Rank

Keldeo

Mega Sharpedo

Mega Swampert

Rotom-Wash

Swampert

B Rank

Empoleon

Gastrodon

Pelipper

Suicune

Tapu Fini

C Rank

Azumarill

Gyarados

Kingdra

Manaphy

Mantine

Mega Gyarados

Mega Slowbro

Tentacruel

Quagsire

D Rank

Alomomola

Golisopod

Jellicent

Lanturn

Seismitoad

Slowking

Type Viability Rankings:

Type VR

S Rank

A Rank

B Rank

C Rank

D Rank

F Rank

Sample Teams:

Sample Teams

click on the sprites to get each team's importable!

Bug

- Mega Scizor Offense by maroon

- Mega Pinsir Hyper Offense by GoldenTorkoal

- Mega Heracross Hyper Offense by Harpp

Dark

- Standard Balance by smub

- Mega Tyranitar Offense by Harpp

Dragon

- Mega Altaria Offense by Chaitanya

- Mega Latias Offense by Yami

- Dragalge Hyper Offense by LuckyPiper

Electric

- Flynium Zeraora Terrain Offense by Ridley

- Aloraichum Terrain Offense by Havens

Fairy

- Azumarill Screens Offense by Ridley

- Clefable Screens Offense by Jolly Togekiss ^-^

Fighting

- Standard Hyper Offense by Jolly Togekiss ^-^

Fire

- Mega Charizard X Screens Offense by GnralLao

Flying

- Tornadus-T Bulky Offense by Chaitanya

- Mega Charizard Y Hyper Offense by Harpp

Ghost

- Standard Offense by Decem

- Trick Room Offense by Splash

Grass

- Standard Balance by Harpp

- Cradilyless Offense by Chaitanya

Ground

- Standard Sand Offense by Harpp

- Mega Steelix Sandless Offense by Harpp

Ice

- Standard Hyper Offense by smub

- Piloswine Balance by Guwahavel

Normal

- Standard Balance by Chaitanya

Poison

- Standard Balance by SubMindRaikou

Psychic

- Mega Gallade Offense by Chaitanya

- Mega Latias Balance by Splash

- Mega Latios Offense by Eien

Rock

- Standard Hyper Offense by Mateeus

Steel

- Mega Scizor Balance by Mateeus

- Celesteela Hyper Offense by Maple

Water

- Mega Sharpedo Bulky Offense by Chaitanya

- Mega Swampert Rain Offense by Tapo Collino

- Suicune Balance by Eien​

 

[Mateeus]

Updates from the last thread:

• SM Monotype included as an old gen with the generation shift
• Small adjusts on SM VR
• SM Samples from the old thread were, for the most part, included - we removed the more "outdated" ones and added some to replenish them.
• ORAS VR got a complete revamp - you should be able to spot most changes, as we thought the old one was EXTREMELY messy
• Descriptions were added for each metagame
• Samples showcase was reinvented

Also, huge shoutouts for Decem and Conflux for helping a lot in SM and ORAS respectively and for Eien's QC of the entire thing. We're looking for new ORAS and BW sample teams as of now - our goal is to have at least one for each type in both generations. DPP teams are welcome too; however, we won't prioritize their QC as the metagame is less played than BW and ORAS.

You may now begin posting.

 

[Days for Dabs]

I've never seen this USUM type VR and I am curious who made it. There are a lot of things that stand out to me here. I'd call Water and Dragon too high, Steel and Fire too low.

Water as a type is versatile and potent, but there are some things that step its way of S rank. The rise of Grass certainly doesn't help its case, alongside Fairy winning the matchup and Flying holding Agility Thundurus just to slap Water in the face. I'd personally put Steel in S tier before Water, and I think trends in winrates probably reflect that.

I've never been impressed with Dragon so I never used it much and I lost with it too many times in MPL so I'm probably biased on that one. What does Dragon beat, anyway?! Poison.

Steel is great in the proper hands. If you can narrow down what types you may come to expect to face, it's hard to do better. From my experience as a ladder hero, I've come to find that Steel actually isn't that consistent across all matchups on a single team basis, but it becomes a very powerful tool in tournament play where you can hone the options available to the type for the occasion.

Fire essentially got better because Grass rose in usage and Water dipped in viability. Maybe it's unnecessary, maybe other types cover the same matchups better than Fire can, idk, it just seems more useful than the other types ranked in its tier.

EDIT: You even have Bug over Fire come on now.

Also EDIT: I think Normal could go up as well, it's simple but a nice fallback if you're really not trying to stress too much about MU

 

[Havens]

While I'm not necessarily agreeing w/ DFD here, I am curious as to why such Type VR's are established only when a metagame has ceased to be CG. This is a resource that many ask for each generation, often referred and implied to questions as "What types are good right now?" or "Do you think 'x' type is good?". Granted that all type rankings are relative to metagame trends, this feels like it should be content that should be available to all players in a generations lifespan, especially to newer players getting their feet wet in the scene. So I do ask these questions, not out of disrespect to any collective creators, but as an inquiry to such Type VR's. In what manner was the USM Type VR made?; By whom, how, and which standards are they based upon?; and why do we not have such a resource currently available to SS?

 

[Chaitanya]

While I'm not necessarily agreeing w/ DFD here, I am curious as to why such Type VR's are established only when a metagame has ceased to be CG. This is a resource that many ask for each generation, often referred and implied to questions as "What types are good right now?" or "Do you think 'x' type is good?". Granted that all type rankings are relative to metagame trends, this feels like it should be content that should be available to all players in a generations lifespan, especially to newer players getting their feet wet in the scene. So I do ask these questions, not out of disrespect to any collective creators, but as an inquiry to such Type VR's. In what manner was the USM Type VR made?; By whom, how, and which standards are they based upon?; and why do we not have such a resource currently available to SS?

Type VRs in SS or any current gen are likely to change every couple of weeks depending on new sets discovered and very variable metagame trends. They're also obviously very subjective based on what types people have had more success with and what types they haven't. Even if a group of people could agree on a type VR in an everchanging meta, it would be changed way too often and it really isn't worth it. This is much less likely with older gens where most/all types have set structures and introducing new trends much more difficult. There's also enough data in past gens that backs up a type VR.

 

[Jolly Togekiss ^-^]

Giving a quick response to Havens.

Type viability rankings generally aren't made until after a generation because metagames are far more complex than a simple A-D ranking system. Generally speaking, it really isn’t a great way to sum up a metagame. For this reason, there are never any official type viability rankings. Instead, the past generation threads have made their own to give returning players an idea of a meta that they can’t fully experience. People have suggested type viability rankings for current gens in the past, but no projects were accepted.

As for the creation of these type vrs, we mostly tried to answer these questions: which types are the most successful in the meta? and which types were considered to be the best in the meta? Mat and I got help from decem in making the VR, and the final changes were quality checked/altered by eien.

 

[Mateeus]

While I'm not necessarily agreeing w/ DFD here, I am curious as to why such Type VR's are established only when a metagame has ceased to be CG. This is a resource that many ask for each generation, often referred and implied to questions as "What types are good right now?" or "Do you think 'x' type is good?". Granted that all type rankings are relative to metagame trends, this feels like it should be content that should be available to all players in a generations lifespan, especially to newer players getting their feet wet in the scene. So I do ask these questions, not out of disrespect to any collective creators, but as an inquiry to such Type VR's. In what manner was the USM Type VR made?; By whom, how, and which standards are they based upon?; and why do we not have such a resource currently available to SS?

okay so, I'll try to answer this as well as I can

Reiterating what Chait and JT said before, a current generation metagame develops in a much faster speed than a past gen, due to, simply, more matches and tournaments being played. That leads, consequently, to a Type VR that will change many times in a period as short as a couple of months, and that takes the purpose off the "get an idea of which types are better than others" appeal from a current generation Type VR. Reminder that such a resource isn't a "definite, consensual viability ranking for types that all or most players agree on", but rather one that's valuable for people who's still learning how to play the tier. In a past generation, however, a Type VR gets to be much more useful for people aspiring to learn because meta development doesn't occur as often, so most type viability bases are already constructed enough. That being said, we encourage people to post their points of view on the Type VR's from each generation and suggest changes with back up arguments, because that shows meta development from an old gen that's still relevant in the tournament scene.

As for your other question, we (me, Jolly Togekiss, and Decem, with Eien's quality check) based the USUM Type VR on what the end-current generation Gen 7 Monotype looked like. We rated them ourselves in factors like consistency against all types (with a minor weight upon that criteria, as obviously, beating Rock and beating Flying are two completely unmeasurable things), metagame potential (which has, naturally, a higher relevance - think of it as "how does that type do against the most relevant trends") and versatility. Again, those aren't absolute and we're accepting all opinions to, later on, update it.

 

[juleocesar]

I've never seen this USUM type VR and I am curious who made it. There are a lot of things that stand out to me here. I'd call Water and Dragon too high, Steel and Fire too low.

Water as a type is versatile and potent, but there are some things that step its way of S rank. The rise of Grass certainly doesn't help its case, alongside Fairy winning the matchup and Flying holding Agility Thundurus just to slap Water in the face. I'd personally put Steel in S tier before Water, and I think trends in winrates probably reflect that.

I've never been impressed with Dragon so I never used it much and I lost with it too many times in MPL so I'm probably biased on that one. What does Dragon beat, anyway?! Poison.

Steel is great in the proper hands. If you can narrow down what types you may come to expect to face, it's hard to do better. From my experience as a ladder hero, I've come to find that Steel actually isn't that consistent across all matchups on a single team basis, but it becomes a very powerful tool in tournament play where you can hone the options available to the type for the occasion.

Fire essentially got better because Grass rose in usage and Water dipped in viability. Maybe it's unnecessary, maybe other types cover the same matchups better than Fire can, idk, it just seems more useful than the other types ranked in its tier.

EDIT: You even have Bug over Fire come on now.

Also EDIT: I think Normal could go up as well, it's simple but a nice fallback if you're really not trying to stress too much about MU

Okay since I am familiarized with those ranks and are approximately the same as I would expect them to be, I will be here explaining the ranks you disagree with. And I might throw some of my personal thoughts thereafter.

Water S Rank: At first it might look like an another overrated type, especially with the rise of Grass as you mentioned. However, you can build 1001 different teams as it is the most versatile type ever. There are many variants of it that can beat literally, every type, incluiding Grass and Fairy, so it adds a lot of room for creativity and counterplay when you actually know what you are doing. Of course advantage and disadvantage still exists, but the ability to play any archetype with hundred different ways is incredible that nearly no other type has, maybe Flying can vary from HO to Balance just as well but Water is versatility king there.

Steel: I might agree with you a little bit, but it still has issues vs the very common Water and the rising Electric type. What I like about steel is the ability to run double hazards + an anti-defogger, as well as some good defensive teammates/core (Heatran + Celesteela +Ferrothorn) that a lot of teams have trouble dealing with. I wouldn't mind having a rise on this one actually, I just feel it can be reasonably predictable sometimes. Steel also has a fair matchup vs Dragon for the most part and assuming it can beat Fairy and Psychic, and sometimes even Ground becomes manageable with the right Celesteela set, I could definitely see it A rank for sure. Overall, I find it in the same vein/"strength" as Dragon. But if we are assuming a more offensive meta like it was in the very end, Steel should be struggling a bit more than Dragon, so that's probably the reason why it went down.
tldr: I would be fine w/ either A or B here.

Now on Fire D rank: Alright since this is the one that most makes sense to me, I have to give a pretty good reasoning as for why it is exactly at the bottom. Personally, Fire is the type I would never pick in any scenario whatsoever, and is most likely the worst type in my opinion. The first thing that comes to mind are its notable matchups: Steel, Grass (as you have mentioned),Bug, and Poison That's four. Out of these types, only Steel is particularly common on both scenes, I don't think Grass is that worthnoting to prep for unless your opp is really known for it and Bug's usage is pretty anti-meta and even less common than Grass, and Poison, well, mhm, yeah. Now looking at the types it has disadvantage (at least in my opinion): Dragon, Fairy, Water, Psychic, Ground, Rock, Flying, Electric. Maybe I could include some 2-3 types like Dark too, but you should already get the point its probably the most inconsistent type to use in tournaments. Fire also doesn't have too much room for creativity either being forced to use torkoal (rapid spin, and sometimes spin + defogger!), the Volcarona sets are pretty the same w/ little to no variation on the Z-move maybe, and Heatran is almost always Scarf / weakberry to at least stand a chance against Diancie. Fighting, Ice and Rock are also pretty damn bad types but at least they can cover at least 1-2 of the relevant S types: Fighting has a decent chance vs Steel and maybe Water, Ice can do well vs Flying and Dragon (maybe water too but that's relative), and Rock can also do well vs Dragon and Flying, but slightly more consistent than Ice all around for other stuff like Electric. So you see, Fire is the only bottom type that doesn't have any relevant type coverage and is just whack on teambuilding terms. Finally, the stealth rock weakness. A good player is 100% going to exploit that, sometimes making the Defog / Rapid Spin scenario impossible or unlikely. Relying on Charizard-X and maybe Blacephalon sets like SubCM or Scarf sounds really risky unless you are very very sure your opponent is gonna use Grass or Steel.

So yeah, if you really need to account for both Steel and Grass at time, there are several ways to do it. Particularly almost every Charizard-Y flying pattern does pretty well vs both, additionally you could run some offensive celesteela set that's def gonna clean steel once Heatran is down or something. Kommo-o on both Dragon and Fighting also can do a pretty good job in those matchups so ppl usually go for those options. Finally, Steel itself. This sounds contraditory, but depending on how its built it can be a pretty effective team that beats everything that Fire does: Grass, Steel and Bug.

As for the types that should get a rise: I agree with Days for Dabs on Normal in my opinion it should be B rank, not C. I am aware its very restricted in teambuilding terms but it can run efficient sets like Conversion Porygon-Z to beat Psychic Flying and Dragon, and even Bewear has shown to be consistent vs types like Steel and Dark. Also it has the best spdef wall in the game. Finally access to good wallbreakers, defoggers (not staravia) and even Ditto can make it a worthwhile choice for both ladders and tournaments, I'd definitely put it at a higher rank.

 

[mushamu]

Some SM noms:

-> S (Fairy)
I frankly think there's no good reason to be ever dropping Klefki on Fairy considering how well it glues together the type offensively. Don't really need to explain what it does since it's been doing it for 3 generations now but its support is one of the main reasons why Fairy teams work super well to begin with; the type is filled filled with frailer offensive threats like Mega Diancie and Tapu Koko and setup sweepers like Tapu Bulu, Azumarill, Mimikyu and Clefable that all become much more dangerous when paired with screens support and Spikes. I consider Klefki to be noticeably better than the stuff ranked at A so putting it at S makes sense.

-> A (Normal)
As Mega Evolutions, both Mega Lopunny and Mega Pidgeot have their separate pros and cons while both being great options. Mega Lopunny is better against offense with Fake Out, Dark, and the Normal mirror, while Mega Pidgeot is great against Grass and Psychic while providing Defog support, which allows you to drop Staraptor and run another offensive Pokemon over it to cover a wider span of matchups. I don't consider one strictly to be better over the other, in contrary to what the VR suggests right now with Mega Lopunny ranked a rank higher than Mega Pidgeot, and Mega Pidgeot is considerably more splashable and better than the stuff in B it's sharing its rank with at the moment.

-> C (Water)
A Stealth Rock weakness, being not that fast after a Dragon Dance, as well as being reliant on Z-Bounce and Moxie boosts to do considerable damage means it struggles consistently breaking through common teams. When building Water, it usually feels like there are generally stronger and more consistent breakers to cover the matchups Gyarados can attempt to sweep in, and as a result, it becomes hard to justify using especially compared to the other B ranked Pokemon and with there being a lot of other good Z-Move users on Water, the textbook example being Greninja.

 

[DugZa]

First time doing these but decided to do some nominations for the SM VR.

Rises

(Dragon) B --> A: Kinda confused about why it's dumped with Dragalge, a Pokemon that gets almost no usage on Dragon, at B. Easily the best mega option Dragon has and gives the Dragon immunity. Helps in matchups like Dark, Psychic, Water to name a new. Although not as great as the S ranked Pokemon, it can contend for a spot at A and definitely more viable than Dragalge so I believe it should get bumped up to A.

(Normal) B --> A: Decem already made this nomination, nothing much to add to it. M-Pidgeot has been getting more traction on Normal teams over the years and access to Defog which means you can drop Staraptor for another offensive option. Not to mention, it is leagues ahead of the other Pokemon ranked at B.

(Steel) B --> A: Over the years and especially in most recent team tours Magnezone's usage and effectiveness on Steel has rose greatly. Thanks to its typing, it eases out the Flying and Water matchups a lot and its ability Magnet Pull aids in the Steel mirror as well and trap other defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Celesteela. Although not the best speed control, Scarf sets allow you to run Non-Scarf Excadrill sets to ease out certain other matchups like Flying, Poison and Electric.

(Psychic) D --> C: A very underrated mega evolution on Psychic teams. It has its obvious flaws and can no longer sweep through Dark teams with Muk-A being present. It can still put in a great amount of work in the Dark matchup and can easily cripple Muk-A with Will-o-wisp, on the switch and the Dark matchup becomes less of hassle from there. Outside of the Dark matchup, Pixilate boosted Hyper Voice and Psyshock STAB along with Focus Blast puts in a lot of work in matchups like Water and Dragon. It has its flaws but it has ideal team support on Psychic teams to make maximum use of its stats and ability and is more viable than the other Pokemon ranked at D currently.

(Water) D --> C: Tentacruel is easily much better and viable than all of the other Pokemon ranked at D along with it. Role compression with access to Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, great typing, decent speed tier, great ability in Liquid Ooze to punish Celesteela and Ferrothorn. Not to mention its a great way to help deal with Tapu Bulu in the Fairy matchup and unlike Toxapex, it isn't a huge momentum sink. These reasons are too good for Tenatcruel to not rise to C, at the very minimum.


Drops

(Grass) B --> C: Tapu Bulu's usage has declined on Grass over the years. Difficulty to fit on most teams with Grass teams having better options to help in other matchups and Whimsicott proving to be the superior Fairy type on Grass teams (that actually gets decent Fairy STAB!), there's little to no reason to use Tapu Bulu anymore. It's viability isn't as good as any of the other B ranked Pokemon, therefore it should drop to C.

(Steel) A --> B: Contrary to the Magnezone nomination Jirachi's effectiveness on Steel has dropped lately with most players opting for other options like Bisharp, Stakataka and Magnezone more often, Jirachi is most often the Pokemon that gets dropped and is evident by the usage stats from MPL VI. Jirachi proved to be most useful in matchups such as Water, Flying and Poison. With Magnezone aiding in both Water and Flying matchups and Poison-type usage declining over the years, the necessity to run Jirachi on Steel teams isn't as requisite as it used to be.

(Psychic) B --> C: M-Latias has less usage on Psychic teams with Psychic teams having a wide variety of mega evolution options, M-Latias has a tough time contending for a slot and opting for regular Healing Wish Latias with a different mega evolution is better in most scenarios. All Pokemon ranked at B currently have seen more usage than M-Latias recently thus why I believe it should drop down to C as its viability does not come close to any of the Pokemon above it.

(Water) D --> UR: I don't think this even needs much explanation. There is absolutely no reason to opt to use Milotic on Water especially given all the options Water teams have. Whether it be as a defensive option or an offensive option, it gets shadowed by better options for any role. As a defensive option with Haze, both Toxapex and Mantine do a better job in every way and as an offensive option, Pokemon like Greninja, Keldeo and Rotom-W outshine it and is extremely difficult to fit it on Water teams without compromising too much from the rest of the team. Therefore, Milotic should be unranked.

 

[roxie]

Ruins of Alpha is hosting a USUM Monotype Tournament in their subforum! USUM Monotype will also be a ladderable format for the entire month of May!

 

[mushamu]

I would suggest moving Electric to A rank, as well as putting Steel and Psychic to S rank.

Electric is always extremely good wherever it has access to Tapu Koko + Alolan Raichu + Zeroara. Compared to the other B ranked types, it covers more. Dragon, Normal, and Grass are fringe types that have certain exploitable holes against the top types. Normal is only a midground and struggles against common threats like Keldeo, Toxic Spikes, and certain opposing defensive cores, Dragon is great on paper until you realize it dies to Stealth Rock, and Grass is fairly linear since people more or less spam the same team and can be exploited by things like Flying. Electric covers the entire metagame very well since Tapu Koko + Zeraora + Magnezone + Alolan Raichu can pretty much break any type in existence if played correctly and VoltSpam is traditionally dangerous and effective in Monotype where some types don't carry Electric immunities. It's definitely a type that has flown under the radar over the past few years as extremely reliable and good and is a good candidate for S even.

Water, Flying, Psychic, and Steel are the big 4 of SM Monotype to me. Steel and Psychic are both very flexible and cover a lot of things just like the former two which are currently sitting at S rank. Dark and Fairy are still very good, but it feels like to me people have been preparing for them more in the tournament setting while they can't adapt as well which makes them slightly worse than Psychic, Steel, Water, and Flying, which are all very flexible with a lot of Pokemon to pick from.

I would also suggest Ice being moved a rank up as well-people who have been paying attention to BLT should have noticed how it cover everything fairly well despite having a shitty defensive typing. Ice is an amazing offensive type with a lot of powerful breakers.

 

[Chaitanya]

@ tier leaders please ban the luck items in SM as well for all the reasons they were banned in SS. And touch nothing else been seeing some dudes wilding. thank u

 

[Kev]

@ tier leaders please ban the luck items in SM as well for all the reasons they were banned in SS. And touch nothing else been seeing some dudes wilding. thank u

An update on this: Zap and I are planning on going through with this as the items aren't any more competitive in SM than they are in SS. We will leave some time for any opposition arguments to come up, but otherwise it would go through whenever we post ORAS changes.

 

[Derpeddeath]

I do not believe it is fair to ban any item OTHER THAN King's rock for several reasons:

1) It does not follow the Tiering policy framework

There has been no record of there being a " more skilled player at a disadvantage a considerable amount of the time against a less skilled player, regardless of what they do. " in the SM monotype meta when it comes to other luck based items.

2) The argument that they decrease "definite counter play into a luck based sequence" is correct but this does NOT make it uncompetitive.

Quick Claw, Bright Powder and other luck based items do not almost always render more skillful play irrelevant. Just because they can doesn't mean they do, again there has also been 0 evidence that this consistently disregards building and skill.

3) High risk, high reward
The concept of High risk, high reward has been around for a long time and is extremely prevalent in Pokémon and will be, luck based items are a big part of this. If a player chooses to take a 20% chance to move first in the priority bracket rather than a 100% chance to move 1.5x faster and be move-locked then they should be rewarded for it. This is a significant part of "skill" and can also be found in the Tiering Policy Framework as "Probability Management" as well as "Assessing Risk" .

4) Similar to what was stated in the post OU council minutes back in May about other "Luck Items".
The lack of usage should mean that they should remain unbanned until proven the need for a ban and kept under watch.
They should not be banned because they are "unnecessary" there are a lot of things in the competitive scene that can be deemed "unnecessary", it DOES hurt to remove an aspect of the game that aren't broken, uncompetitive, or unhealthy.

 

[Chaitanya]

probability management refers to managing probability of situations you know of such as trying to avoid a burn from scald toxapex, not stuff like brightpowder which can be thrown onto any mon with your opp having no idea. These items are good for nothing except for random spurts of luck in what is already a luck filled game. The biggest difference from quick claw and a choice scarf is that there is no actual counterplay against quick claw except hope they don't roll 1/5. With scarf you know they are locked into a move and this will remain a constant through the game. The items have no place in competitive play and hurt no competitive games if they are removed. We cater primarily to our competitive playerbase so they should definitely go. If some 1300 ladder players can't dodge moves with brightpowder and it makes them sad they can't luck people anymore, so be it. Assessing risk is only possible if you know the elements involved. get rid of all the items quickly please

 

[Derpeddeath]

probability management refers to managing probability of situations you know of such as trying to avoid a burn from scald toxapex, not stuff like brightpowder which can be thrown onto any mon with your opp having no idea. These items are good for nothing except for random spurts of luck in what is already a luck filled game. The biggest difference from quick claw and a choice scarf is that there is no actual counterplay against quick claw except hope they don't roll 1/5. With scarf you know they are locked into a move and this will remain a constant through the game. The items have no place in competitive play and hurt no competitive games if they are removed. We cater primarily to our competitive playerbase so they should definitely go. If some 1300 ladder players can't dodge moves with bright powder and it makes them sad they can't luck people anymore, so be it. Assessing risk is only possible if you know the elements involved. get rid of all the items quickly please

Clearly you must have at least a few replays from years of sm mono displaying how uncompetitive items bright powder is in a competitive scene?
These luck items ONLY matter to 1300 ladder players, the competitive/majority player base has never been affected by them.
If these items has no real impact on the metagame why ban them?

 

[juleocesar]

Clearly you must have at least a few replays from years of sm mono displaying how uncompetitive items bright powder is in a competitive scene?
These luck items ONLY matter to 1300 ladder players, the competitive/majority player base has never been affected by them.
If these items has no real impact on the metagame why ban them?

Because they are still uncompetitive, regardless of how much it is / was used or whether players who are actually good use them or not. They have the potential to derail matches (ex: seasonals, on which the new playerbase is allowed and welcomed). It would be extremely ugly to see a brightpowder + sand veil Garchomp making its opponent miss 5 moves in a row regardless of what it is against or how good players are, and it takes away the skill (and therefore reward / effort) involved in playing the game.

Your argument presented in 2) is not true as missing moves that should be accurate OR having a very slow mon moving first outside of trick room (example: Quick Claw Victini) are very impactful to the match (to the point they can decide it on their own through luck, especially in monotype) and they are outside of control for both players. The 3) "high risk/high reward" argument does not really justify it either because you are not making the decision (rather, you are letting the game make it for you), which's opposite for risk/reward decisions like double-switching / "playmaking" or running a situational tech on your team. In fact, some of the luck item options even conflict with existing clauses like the Evasion Clause, and thus are better off removed than kept in.

Additionally, it makes me curious as to why defend those items as they do not encourage or provide any positive experience for the game itself or the community, especially when you are not a fan of those items yourself. That being said, there's no reason to keep them since they are either irrelevant or subtractive to the metagame, even when there's "not enough record" about them.

 

[Derpeddeath]

Because they are still uncompetitive, regardless of how much it is / was used or whether players who are actually good use them or not. They have the potential to derail matches (ex: seasonals, on which the new playerbase is allowed and welcomed). It would be extremely ugly to see a brightpowder + sand veil Garchomp making its opponent miss 5 moves in a row regardless of what it is against or how good players are, and it takes away the skill (and therefore reward / effort) involved in playing the game.

Your argument presented in 2) is not true as missing moves that should be accurate OR having a very slow mon moving first outside of trick room (example: Quick Claw Victini) are very impactful to the match (to the point they can decide it on their own through luck, especially in monotype) and they are outside of control for both players. The 3) "high risk/high reward" argument does not really justify it either because you are not making the decision (rather, you are letting the game make it for you), which's opposite for risk/reward decisions like double-switching / "playmaking" or running a situational tech on your team. In fact, some of the luck item options even conflict with existing clauses like the Evasion Clause, and thus are better off removed than kept in.

Additionally, it makes me curious as to why defend those items as they do not encourage or provide any positive experience for the game itself or the community, especially when you are not a fan of those items yourself. That being said, there's no reason to keep them since they are either irrelevant or subtractive to the metagame, even when there's "not enough record" about them.

Again, the Smogon tiering definition ' II.) Uncompetitive - elements that reduce the effect of player choice / interaction on the end result to an extreme degree, such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant. '
Unless you believe that items like Quick Claw and Bright powder almost always leave more skillful play irrelevant like kings rock (which if you do you are clearly wrong) then by definition it is NOT uncompetitive.

Usage does affect the tiering process and is exactly why OU hasn't banned any of these items because of the obvious implication that if it was really that uncompetitive everybody would be no brain spamming it all over.

It would definitely suck to see someone lose to Bright Powder + Sand Veil Garchomp by missing 5 times in a row, but things like that already happen, why should the player not benefit from taking the risk of using a Bright Powder which is pretty useless? The Garchomp would be hit 9/10 games and that's what really matters. It's similar to using focus blast > aura sphere on mew to kill ferro/kyub, players are willing to take the risk that it may not hit and DOES fall under the first part of probability management under Smogon.
Again what would make Quick Claw Victini Uncompetitive is if it was CONSISTENTLY impactful on the game.

Just because I don't like them doesn't mean I think they should be banned. Monotype is an official Smogon tier which means we must follow Smogon tiering policy whether we like it or not. I disagree with Smogon's tiering policy on a lot of things especially on Complex bans but that doesn't mean we don't have to follow Smogon tiering policy.

 

[Kev]

The entire argument about it not matching up to Smogon tiering policy does not make much sense, since the bans were done and allowed in SS Monotype. They were also recently done in ORAS Monotype. If we are taking about being consistent in tiering, it would only make more sense to ban them in SM. The impact these items bring on the game are no different in SM than they are in SS or ORAS, thus there is no valid reason to maintain them here.

I won't go on a tangent to explain what makes the items uncompetitive because the discussion that was done for it in the SS thread covers the gist of all the points.

Therefore, the following will be banned in SM Monotype: King's Rock, Bright Powder, Lax Incense, Quick Claw, Razor Fang and Focus Band

Tagging Kris to implement

 

[mushamu]

hey since im probably not gonna be using it a ton anymore im gonna drop my sm builder for people who are trying to learn it for gens/just for fun. some of the teams might be weird so try them out before u use them

https://pokepast.es/57df05b2c839279e