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99.9% of the time it won't matter, since Deoxys-A gets OHKOed by basically anything, making the choice of the nature pretty irrelevant on that point, but if you want to go that far, a -SpD nature always survives a Dragon Tail from defensive Zygarde/Giratina, while a -Def nature can OHKOed by it. Rock Tomb from defensive Primal Groudon also is similar, since a -Def nature always gets OHKOed, while a -SpD has a chance to survive it. I don't think there is any move that a -Def nature would help, at most it would give Genesect a Attack boost instead of Special Attack, but Genesect is a irrelevant mon with its only set being Choice Band, making it even worse.
Precisely the reason for my question, why is Naive not preferred? I struggled to come up with a relevant special move with a low base power other than hidden power.
 

Ropalme1914

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Precisely the reason for my question, why is Naive not preferred? I struggled to come up with a relevant special move with a low base power other than hidden power.
Because since it won't matter most of the time, people just do not pay attention to it. It probably is more common because when you click the suggested spread on Showdown, it defaults to Hasty instead of Naive.
 
Is Mega Mewtwo X completely unviable? I'm planning on maybe soft resetting for a Shiny one. But, I don't want it to be useless.... If it turns out to be useless. I'll just go for Timid instead to use Mega Mewtwo Y.
 

Ropalme1914

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Is Mega Mewtwo X completely unviable? I'm planning on maybe soft resetting for a Shiny one. But, I don't want it to be useless.... If it turns out to be useless. I'll just go for Timid instead to use Mega Mewtwo Y.
Not completely unviable, but it is far from being a good Pokémon. As a Fighting-type, it already faces competition with Marshadow, Mega Lucario and Mega Blaziken, which all have better abilities, better secondary STAB, Swords Dance (for Lucario and Blaziken), Close Combat and priority (for Lucario and Marshadow). Even as a fast physical Psychic-type attacker it faces competition with Ultra Necrozma, which has Swords Dance, is more unpredictable, can deal with Fairy-types by not going through Ultra Burst, hits harder with its coverage moves, and has access to its extremely powerful Z-Move. Mega Mewtwo X also struggles with Ghost- and Fairy-types that are common on the tier, like Giratina-O, Lunala, Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas.
 
Not completely unviable, but it is far from being a good Pokémon. As a Fighting-type, it already faces competition with Marshadow, Mega Lucario and Mega Blaziken, which all have better abilities, better secondary STAB, Swords Dance (for Lucario and Blaziken), Close Combat and priority (for Lucario and Marshadow). Even as a fast physical Psychic-type attacker it faces competition with Ultra Necrozma, which has Swords Dance, is more unpredictable, can deal with Fairy-types by not going through Ultra Burst, hits harder with its coverage moves, and has access to its extremely powerful Z-Move. Mega Mewtwo X also struggles with Ghost- and Fairy-types that are common on the tier, like Giratina-O, Lunala, Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas.
Ah... so, in other words. I should just try and get a Timid Mewtwo. (Unless the RNG decides to be a jerk.)

Kind of a shame, though, Mega Mewtwo X is kind of cool design wise.
 

Ropalme1914

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Ah... so, in other words. I should just try and get a Timid Mewtwo. (Unless the RNG decides to be a jerk.)

Kind of a shame, though, Mega Mewtwo X is kind of cool design wise.
yeah, if you really want to use Mewtwo, then Mega Mewtwo Y is your best bet, and Timid is the best nature for it.
 
Why is HP Ice suggested for Marshadow?
The Marshadow analysis suggests using Hidden power Ice, when even after a Technician boost is weaker than Ice Punch . A completely uninvested Marshadow does more damage with Ice Punch than it does with HP Ice
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 66-78 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO

This is without attack investment. With attack investment you get these calcs:
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 80-95 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO

In addition, this frees up the ability to run a minus SpA nature, which lets you run higher bulk by not dropping Def or SpDef
 

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Why is HP Ice suggested for Marshadow?
The Marshadow analysis suggests using Hidden power Ice, when even after a Technician boost is weaker than Ice Punch . A completely uninvested Marshadow does more damage with Ice Punch than it does with HP Ice
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 66-78 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO

This is without attack investment. With attack investment you get these calcs:
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 80-95 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO

In addition, this frees up the ability to run a minus SpA nature, which lets you run higher bulk by not dropping Def or SpDef
Probably because the stuff hit by HP Ice are predominantly physically defensive here, with examples such as Mega Salamence and Zygarde-Complete. Your calcs assume the foe has equal defenses, which is rarely the case.
 

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Why is HP Ice suggested for Marshadow?
The Marshadow analysis suggests using Hidden power Ice, when even after a Technician boost is weaker than Ice Punch . A completely uninvested Marshadow does more damage with Ice Punch than it does with HP Ice
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 66-78 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO

This is without attack investment. With attack investment you get these calcs:
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 80-95 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO

In addition, this frees up the ability to run a minus SpA nature, which lets you run higher bulk by not dropping Def or SpDef
252 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 204-240 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 248-296 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

A similar kind of situation, where Mega Mence is bulkier physically than specially, is present for the other HP Ice target.
 

Ropalme1914

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Why is HP Ice suggested for Marshadow?
The Marshadow analysis suggests using Hidden power Ice, when even after a Technician boost is weaker than Ice Punch . A completely uninvested Marshadow does more damage with Ice Punch than it does with HP Ice
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 66-78 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO

This is without attack investment. With attack investment you get these calcs:
0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 60-71 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Marshadow Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 80-95 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO

In addition, this frees up the ability to run a minus SpA nature, which lets you run higher bulk by not dropping Def or SpDef
Because it deals more damage to the relevant targets. While Rayquaza has 25% chance to survive HP Ice, it has a higher chance to OHKO Mega Salamence (-1 Ice Punch can't even OHKO it), with a similar situation with Zygarde-C
 

Ropalme1914

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Thanks for the quick explanation. So pretty much it's that Ice Punch is better in a vacuum, while HP Ice is just better against the other Ubers?
Yeah, on this metagame, HP Ice is simply better, and you would need that Zygarde-C/Mence were way less common and new threats to rise to make Ice Punch to be better on Ubers.
 
I've been messing around with an Eruption>Fire Blast version of the typical Mixed RP Groudon set and I find that it's generally really easy to keep it healthy enough for Eruption to do near-maximum damage without any accuracy issues or Overheat's nasty drawbacks. Is this generally a viable option to run, or is it still way too inconsistent?
 

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I've been messing around with an Eruption>Fire Blast version of the typical Mixed RP Groudon set and I find that it's generally really easy to keep it healthy enough for Eruption to do near-maximum damage without any accuracy issues or Overheat's nasty drawbacks. Is this generally a viable option to run, or is it still way too inconsistent?
It's not a standard option, but still can be used fine, especially due to it beating other Pokémon if they switch in like Arceus-Ground. Yeah, it is not as consistent as Overheat, but that's expected from something like Eruption.
 
In Marshadow's analysis, the Priority section in Checks and counters says "Shadow Sneak from Giratina-O OHKOes Marshadow", but the Damage Calculator says that it fails to OHKO even with max Atk and SR. Am I doing something wrong?View attachment 144916
Maybe they mean after a Close Combat drop?

252+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Shadow Sneak vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 294-348 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

But yeah in any case, the way it's said is just wrong and no Defense drops are mentioned whatsoever. Probably could use an edit or something.
 
I submitted CMS requesting the entire removal of that line. I don't believe physical Giratina-O is useful at this moment and mentioning Bullet Punch / Sucker Punch should be enough for examples. The content without Giratina-O's Shadow Sneak will still get the point across.

Edit: It apparently got merged some time earlier today
 
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Hi I'm looking for a list of all bans implemented in ubers in each generation. There's obviously evasion, OHKO, Moody, Swagger in g5(?) onwards, MRay, Lefties Wobb in ADV, are there any others?
 
Hi I'm looking for a list of all bans implemented in ubers in each generation. There's obviously evasion, OHKO, Moody, Swagger in g5(?) onwards, MRay, Lefties Wobb in ADV, are there any others?
Sleep Clause, Endless Battle Clause. I don't remember other bans.
 
Greetings fellow Ubers players!
Where can I find samples of the common stall teams in the current state of the meta?
I would love to get into Ubers, and I wanna study a bit the common stall teams on the ladder before making a serious team.

I also have another question: How is Mixed Rock Polish Groudon matchup against the common stall builds?
 

Ropalme1914

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Greetings fellow Ubers players!
Where can I find samples of the common stall teams in the current state of the meta?
I would love to get into Ubers, and I wanna study a bit the common stall teams on the ladder before making a serious team.

I also have another question: How is Mixed Rock Polish Groudon matchup against the common stall builds?
Stall is not that great on this meta, so you won't find many teams, however, the Sample Teams thread has one team posted on the first post (the main one) and other one on page 2 by Mysterious M that should give you a decent base.
 
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