Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets

I think you presented a well thought argument, and definitely wouldn't mind Tera Rock Basculin to be a thing. But at the end of the day, I agree with Cake about having a 80% accuracy move being the sole adaptability move.
My original point, which may have gotten lost in the scope of my post, was that actualy Terastalizing Basculin to Water is extremely situational and a "winmore" in that there aren't many situations where it'll change the outcome of a turn, so a defensive Tera to Dragon or Grass could be a good option to survive a revenge kill attempt and hit back with a massive Wave Crash, which still deals stupendous damage even after losing the Adaptatbility boost from said Tera.

Tldr : Basc's current Tera isn't really useful so a different, experimental type would likely be better.
 

Tarrembeau

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My original point, which may have gotten lost in the scope of my post, was that actualy Terastalizing Basculin to Water is extremely situational and a "winmore" in that there aren't many situations where it'll change the outcome of a turn, so a defensive Tera to Dragon or Grass could be a good option to survive a revenge kill attempt and hit back with a massive Wave Crash, which still deals stupendous damage even after losing the Adaptatbility boost from said Tera.

Tldr : Basc's current Tera isn't really useful so a different, experimental type would likely be better.
I disagree with tera water being that situational, any damage boost to a breaker like it will give it opportunity to 2HKO and even OHKO mons it originally have no business KOing. What matters is how it interacts with neutral and resisted mons, and boosting damage further on the move you'd like to spam anyway is a good thing on a wallbreaker
 

Ampha

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Soooo, time for the changes im gonna suggest:
Garchomp should have Dragon claw as option
Lake pixies SHOULD DEFINITELY have Mystical power as an option, its literally a attacking boost
Wyrdeer should have Psyshield bash as an option
Overqwil and Qwilfish hisui should have Barb Barrage as an option
Avalugg Hisui should have Mountain gale as an option
Typhlosion hisui should have Infernal Parade as an option
Stantler & Basculin white stripe should be added as pokemon
Moltres's Brave bird>Hurricane
Meowscarada should have Trick as a option on Choice band sets
Me(Ampharos) should have Ice type and tera blast added as options
Special Dudunsparce should have Fire blast or flamethrower added as an option on CM sets
Scovillain should maybe have a chlorophyll Sunny day set similar to gen 7, 8 Ludicolo
Hazard stack Whiscash should have Tera ghost as an option

prob more to come on future but those are ones I feel that are needed imo
 

pokeblade101

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Soooo, time for the changes im gonna suggest:
Garchomp should have Dragon claw as option
Lake pixies SHOULD DEFINITELY have Mystical power as an option, its literally a attacking boost
Wyrdeer should have Psyshield bash as an option
Overqwil and Qwilfish hisui should have Barb Barrage as an option
Avalugg Hisui should have Mountain gale as an option
Typhlosion hisui should have Infernal Parade as an option
Stantler & Basculin white stripe should be added as pokemon
Moltres's Brave bird>Hurricane
Meowscarada should have Trick as a option on Choice band sets
Me(Ampharos) should have Ice type and tera blast added as options
Special Dudunsparce should have Fire blast or flamethrower added as an option on CM sets
Scovillain should maybe have a chlorophyll Sunny day set similar to gen 7, 8 Ludicolo
Hazard stack Whiscash should have Tera ghost as an option

prob more to come on future but those are ones I feel that are needed imo
All Ill say here is a lot of these suggestions dont exist because the moves are low power, dont have reliable accuracy compared to the alternatives or both
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

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Soooo, time for the changes im gonna suggest:
Garchomp should have Dragon claw as option
Lake pixies SHOULD DEFINITELY have Mystical power as an option, its literally a attacking boost
Wyrdeer should have Psyshield bash as an option
Overqwil and Qwilfish hisui should have Barb Barrage as an option
Avalugg Hisui should have Mountain gale as an option
Typhlosion hisui should have Infernal Parade as an option
Stantler & Basculin white stripe should be added as pokemon
Moltres's Brave bird>Hurricane
Meowscarada should have Trick as a option on Choice band sets
Me(Ampharos) should have Ice type and tera blast added as options
Special Dudunsparce should have Fire blast or flamethrower added as an option on CM sets
Scovillain should maybe have a chlorophyll Sunny day set similar to gen 7, 8 Ludicolo
Hazard stack Whiscash should have Tera ghost as an option

prob more to come on future but those are ones I feel that are needed imo
No, except whiscash maybe that one seems fun
 

Ampha

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All Ill say here is a lot of these suggestions dont exist because the moves are low power, dont have reliable accuracy compared to the alternatives or both
I do understand some bc of that drawback concern but the ones I still wanna highlight the ones who dont have that problem like
Chomp not having to suffer from confusion problems on Choice band locked sets bc of outrage
Hisui Typh has Will-O-Wisp on its set which hits harder than Shadow ball with infernal parade(120BP when status)
Basculin white stripe doesnt hurt anything... its lit a extra form of a already existing mon, altho maybe stantler sounds bad
Brave bird moltres is AWFUL, like cmon we had this problem last gen and it took a bit to be fixed
Ampha has tera fairy(with low base power move) but doesnt have the one tera type which makes it a threat(Bolt beam combo)?
duduns has thunder which is unreliable af, fire and normal compliment each other way better than w thunder
and i've seen a couple of ppl complain on ladder bc scovillain only has moody set
 
Hey all, I was wondering about the balance of lower BST mons vs higher.

I understand that Pokemon with a BST > 550 are objectively better and take a level nerf to help balance the stats. However, I find the converse does not always hold true.
For example, sunflora is one pokemon that I think is burned a lot in random battles. Especially since its only gimmick (from my time playing on ladder) is running Choice Specs, Tera Fire with some array of special moves including solar beam, earth power, etc.
A despite the level boost AND the potential damage boost that a choice item gives. It is still severely limited by the especially low speed...considering that most mons are going to outspeed, outclass, etc, before sunflora even gets a chance to do anything.

It is objectively bad to claim there is balance when many pokemon (especially legendaries) are 20-30 levels lower with move freedom, and still hit harder and faster before your "buffed" flower gets a chance to breathe.

My only requested solution would be to add to the algorithm limiting weaker mons to higher up the ladder. I don't know if that is possible to implement a mild restriction of ELO > 1400, where objectively worse mons start to enter your random pool.
OOOOOOOOr alternatively, making legendaries lose a move entirely? (although that seems busted, but one idea would be minmaxing what is broken on those pokemon with much greater BSTs (ie., a choice item, but with a setup move to remove a slot).

It has been too many that I've been burned by choice specs sunflora on low ladder...and getting outclassed in randoms with my opponent for some reason getting two legendaries with lefties...and my poor flower is locked, and its easier to just let it faint, than "save it" for a better switch-in.

I hope I made my case, and I'm open to discussion about alternatives about how to either critically balance weaker mons so that they may keep up with the debuffed but still crazy strong mons.
 
Um can you explain a little further? We can't use action on this type of statement and I would personally like to hear the idea behind this.
Greninja always has Dark Pulse and Hydro Pump, but it only has Protean sets. I believe it should have a wider move selection to make it less predictable rather than 2 "STABs".
 

Irpachuza

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A despite the level boost AND the potential damage boost that a choice item gives. It is still severely limited by the especially low speed...considering that most mons are going to outspeed, outclass, etc, before sunflora even gets a chance to do anything.
(...)
My only requested solution would be to add to the algorithm limiting weaker mons to higher up the ladder. I don't know if that is possible to implement a mild restriction of ELO > 1400, where objectively worse mons start to enter your random pool.
It's level 90, a month after the formats' original implementation and after only one level tweak. It will be buffed further if deemed necessary. There is really no point in suggesting such a blunt change because of one Pokemon.

OOOOOOOOr alternatively, making legendaries lose a move entirely? (although that seems busted, but one idea would be minmaxing what is broken on those pokemon with much greater BSTs (ie., a choice item, but with a setup move to remove a slot).
We do not nerf Pokemon by giving them worse sets.
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

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Hey all, I was wondering about the balance of lower BST mons vs higher.

I understand that Pokemon with a BST > 550 are objectively better and take a level nerf to help balance the stats. However, I find the converse does not always hold true.
For example, sunflora is one pokemon that I think is burned a lot in random battles. Especially since its only gimmick (from my time playing on ladder) is running Choice Specs, Tera Fire with some array of special moves including solar beam, earth power, etc.
A despite the level boost AND the potential damage boost that a choice item gives. It is still severely limited by the especially low speed...considering that most mons are going to outspeed, outclass, etc, before sunflora even gets a chance to do anything.

It is objectively bad to claim there is balance when many pokemon (especially legendaries) are 20-30 levels lower with move freedom, and still hit harder and faster before your "buffed" flower gets a chance to breathe.

My only requested solution would be to add to the algorithm limiting weaker mons to higher up the ladder. I don't know if that is possible to implement a mild restriction of ELO > 1400, where objectively worse mons start to enter your random pool.
OOOOOOOOr alternatively, making legendaries lose a move entirely? (although that seems busted, but one idea would be minmaxing what is broken on those pokemon with much greater BSTs (ie., a choice item, but with a setup move to remove a slot).

It has been too many that I've been burned by choice specs sunflora on low ladder...and getting outclassed in randoms with my opponent for some reason getting two legendaries with lefties...and my poor flower is locked, and its easier to just let it faint, than "save it" for a better switch-in.

I hope I made my case, and I'm open to discussion about alternatives about how to either critically balance weaker mons so that they may keep up with the debuffed but still crazy strong mons.
no. we'll just keep level balancing via winrate like we always do.


Greninja always has Dark Pulse and Hydro Pump, but it only has Protean sets. I believe it should have a wider move selection to make it less predictable rather than 2 "STABs".
I don't think that's a good idea for a variety of reasons. we aren't waiving stab enforcement for greninja. coincidentally, its STABs are also its most spammable attacks by far.
 
any reason for poisons to have leftovers instead of black sludge? opponent had amoonguss with leftovers, tried to trick it a scarf with dialga. they switched, but if they hadn't, i would've gotten lefties for free instead of black sludge damage. minor change but one with very fringe benefits
1675273628383.png
 

Tarrembeau

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is a Community Contributor
any reason for poisons to have leftovers instead of black sludge? opponent had amoonguss with leftovers, tried to trick it a scarf with dialga. they switched, but if they hadn't, i would've gotten lefties for free instead of black sludge damage. minor change but one with very fringe benefits
Yes, because of tera, since you'd get hurt by your own black sludge if you tera to another type, and reveal your tera-type if you get to psn type
 
Mewtwo runs Aura Sphere as the only option as Fighting coverage while Lucario runs Focus Blast and Aura Sphere. I think it should be the opposite.

Lucario has STAB on Fighting ; if you intend to spam STAB post Nasty Plot, you risk a 30% miss chance on every attack by running Focus Blast which stops your sweep. Mewtwo, on the other hand, is likely to be using it for coverage only, which means it needs to get as much power as possible in order to prevent resistances/immunities stopping its sweep.
 

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