Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

I did this, and it's because its entry is unchecked on the page about the Ability, in the Gen 9 column.
Well I guess my post is now a request for testing then because that feels off and I definitely don't trust a Bulbapedia table sight-unseen lol
 
Well I guess my post is now a request for testing then because that feels off and I definitely don't trust a Bulbapedia table sight-unseen lol
Pollen Puff is still blocked by Bulletproof if it’s the actual attack part of the move targeting a foe. FWIW I can’t test if there’s any sort of exception for targeting your partner like self targeted Psychic Terrain priority.

 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
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Hi. 3d helpfully contributed some ideas for testing in a message to me, which is always appreciated. Here were the results:
Well I guess my post is now a request for testing then because that feels off and I definitely don't trust a Bulbapedia table sight-unseen lol
Bulletproof blocks both an opponent's Pollen Puff and a partner's Pollen Puff.
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
Hi. Minor results ordered roughly from most to least interesting again. Some have probably already been reported.
Apologies for the double post. I hope I have enough here to make it acceptable this time.

Edit 2:

Regarding the Confusion tests, I've determined that the initial results were not quite accurate. It appears that Confusion counts the initial turn that Tatsugiri enters its Commander state, but not any further turns spent inside Dondozo.

The first turn of Commander counting toward Confusion turns can be seen by noticing that Tatsugiri breaks out of Confusion as soon as it acts upon leaving its Commander state in this video, even though it's only spent 1 Confusion turn (out of the minimum 2 total Confusion turns inflicted by the Confuse Ray) attempting to use a move so far.

To prove that further turns spent Commanding don't count, take a look at this other video, which shows Tatsugiri spending 10+ turns inside Dondozo after being Confused by a slower Axe Kick, only to remain in Confusion for another 4 turns after it exits the Commander state.

Edit 3:
One more edit for good measure on this post regarding the Tatsugiri status effect testing. Sleep does not count the initial turn of Tatsugiri entering its Commander state. Sleep also does not count any further turns Tatsugiri stays in the Commander state.
 
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Theorymon

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I did some minor mechanic testing on Jaw Lock since it's a pretty relevant move on Roaring Moon in Battle Stadium Singles right now!

With Shed Shell

I had a Roaring Moon with Shed Shell use Jaw Lock on a Sylveon. Roaring Moon was able to switch out, but not Sylveon, so Shed Shell still works with Jaw Lock.

Tera Ghost Interactions


- When Roaring Moon Terastallized into a Ghost-type, then used Jaw Lock, the trapping message entirely failed to show up. Both the Roaring Moon and Sylveon were able to switch out.

- I tested to see how Jaw Lock's trapping works if you Terastallize AFTER using it. On turn 2 after using Jaw Lock on turn 1, I Terastallize. On turn 3, I am able to switch out Roaring Moon, but my brother's Sylveon is unable to switch out.
 
On showdown, in a double battle when you use a spread move that activates the weakness policy on two opposing Pokémon, one of which has symbiosis, the weakness policies are activated in order of left to right. (From the perspective of the attacker) So if the non symbiosis Pokémon is on the left it uses its weakness policy then gets another one, while if the Pokémon is on the right they both activate their own weakness policy. Is this accurate to cart?
 

3d

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On showdown, in a double battle when you use a spread move that activates the weakness policy on two opposing Pokémon, one of which has symbiosis, the weakness policies are activated in order of left to right. (From the perspective of the attacker) So if the non symbiosis Pokémon is on the left it uses its weakness policy then gets another one, while if the Pokémon is on the right they both activate their own weakness policy. Is this accurate to cart?
Tested this out twice swapping positions. They both activate their own weakness policy regardless of order.

Scream tail (non symbiosis on the right of the attacker) note: this activates scream tail's weakness policy first.
Scream tail (non symbiosis on the left of attacker)
 

Clas

My death was... greatly exaggerated
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unable to do so myself so can someone check how relic song melo works this gen with switching (i.e. does it keep pirouette form after pivoting out bc if so thats a huge buff it got this gen). i sadly doubt anything will change but its something to know at least for the future.
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
unable to do so myself so can someone check how relic song melo works this gen with switching (i.e. does it keep pirouette form after pivoting out bc if so thats a huge buff it got this gen). i sadly doubt anything will change but its something to know at least for the future.
Meloetta still doesn't maintain its Pirouette form after switching out and back in :blobsad:

It does continue to display as Normal/Fighting in the switch menu until it switches back in, though, interestingly enough.
 

Clas

My death was... greatly exaggerated
is a Tiering Contributor
It does continue to display as Normal/Fighting in the switch menu until it switches back in, though, interestingly enough.
this is actually decently big, means that pirouette should be able to be directly put in and maintain that form - maybe worth testing too, or if it just crashes the game lol (or is just mid again :blobsad: )
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
this is actually decently big, means that pirouette should be able to be directly put in and maintain that form - maybe worth testing too, or if it just crashes the game lol (or is just mid again :blobsad: )
Unfortunately when I tried to insert a Meloetta as Pirouette form, it reverted upon loading the save the same way that Palafin reverts if it's inserted in its Hero form. You can see that Meloetta does revert form in the switch menu, but it still shows the Fighting typing on it until it comes back into battle in the video.
 

Theorymon

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I figured I should grab some footage of this since it's pretty important to Nintendo formats, yet I couldn't find any documentation of it online. It's a bit obvious, but I've seen some misunderstandings about this before!

Perish Song does NOT work like Haze against Good as Gold, so the ability will actually block Perish Song, but ONLY for Gholdengo! So yes, Flutter Mane still gets KOed...


 
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termi

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Is this true? Because I'm seeing a Bax being hit by a Fire type move and a Kilowattrel being hit by a wind move, while Electromorphosis is triggered by any attack. Seems to me like the abilities function as usual and there's no interaction with Sheer Force?

E: unless you just meant to say that Sheer Force does not prevent those abilities from working, though idk why it would anyway given that these abilities are not triggered by secondary effects or anything.
 
Is this true? Because I'm seeing a Bax being hit by a Fire type move and a Kilowattrel being hit by a wind move, while Electromorphosis is triggered by any attack. Seems to me like the abilities function as usual and there's no interaction with Sheer Force?
Sheer Force has a weird tendency to cancel things other than the secondary effect of moves (most famously Life Orb recoil, but it also cancels some abilities like Color Change and Berserk). DarkFE was confirming that even though the moves were boosted by Sheer Force, the abilities still activated.
 

awesomelink234

Banned deucer.
Are Hydro Steam and Psyblade custom BP or BP modifiers? And for Hydro Steam specifically, does it set the weather damage modifier to 1 when used in sun?
 
Psyblade appears to be boosted by Sharpness. I got a wild level 29 Ditto to transform into an Umbreon with Copycat and 86 Attack then Skill Swapped Sharpness onto it with a Gallade and spammed Psyblade from Iron Leaves into it until it copied the move. In the meantime it Screeched me down to -6, and when it finally attacked back it did 31 damage, which is consistent with a Sharpness boost.
Lvl 29 86 Atk Sharpness Umbreon Psyblade vs. -6 Lvl 75 160 Def Iron Leaves: 29-34 (11.2 - 13.1%) -- possible 8HKO
 

3d

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Does Utility Umbrella affect the damage increase of Hydro Steam in sun?
yes, but i found something interesting while looking into this...

it appears that with utility umbrella hydro steam not only loses the boost from the sun, but also is nerfed in the sun.
E: the relevant stats are 192 hp / 126 spdef on slither wing, and 145 spatk on wake.

we see here hydro steam doing 28% to slither wing. (137/192)

in this clip we see hydro steam doing 156/192 hp or about 20%, in sun with the utility umbrella attached

here we see here hydro steam doing about 64% to slither wing. (69/192) strangely enough, this aligns closer with a 2.25x (1.5*1.5) increase as opposed to a 1.95x increase that it should have. (1.3*1.5), so this may be worth looking into more as well.

these calcs are really strange because with the umbrella on in sun, wake is doing ~33% less with its move compared to when its used out of sun, i hope someone else can confirm the exact % decrease with more tests because i am pretty busy tonight but figured this would be a good place to bring it up, and can basically confirm it is not a 1/2 reduction. also the strange 28% to 64% calc from getting knocked is also interesting so i encourage somebody to run this test with a larger sample size and see if the 1.3x proto * 1.5x hydro steam aligns and i just got weird rolls, or if its really 1.5*1.5..

tldr, hydro steam receives a nerf in sun of about 33% while holding a utility umbrella not how it currently works on ps.


thanks to TDK for taking the time to help me test this stuff out
 
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yes, but i found something interesting while looking into this...

it appears that with utility umbrella hydro steam not only loses the boost from the sun, but also is nerfed in the sun.
E: the relevant stats are 192 hp / 126 spdef on slither wing, and 145 spatk on wake.

we see here hydro steam doing 28% to slither wing. (137/192)

in this clip we see hydro steam doing 156/192 hp or about 20%, in sun with the utility umbrella attached

here we see here hydro steam doing about 64% to slither wing. (69/192) strangely enough, this aligns closer with a 2.25x (1.5*1.5) increase as opposed to a 1.95x increase that it should have. (1.3*1.5), so this may be worth looking into more as well.

these calcs are really strange because with the umbrella on in sun, wake is doing ~33% less with its move compared to when its used out of sun, i hope someone else can confirm the exact % decrease with more tests because i am pretty busy tonight but figured this would be a good place to bring it up, and can basically confirm it is not a 1/2 reduction. also the strange 28% to 64% calc from getting knocked is also interesting so i encourage somebody to run this test with a larger sample size and see if the 1.3x proto * 1.5x hydro steam aligns and i just got weird rolls, or if its really 1.5*1.5..

tldr, hydro steam receives a nerf in sun of about 33% while holding a utility umbrella not how it currently works on ps.

Edit:

So, after some calcs I have a good idea of how this move works. In sun, Hydro Steam becomes a 120 BP Water type move.
With the utility umbrella attached, this move becomes 120 bp and is then halved in power. We saw it doing 20% in the clip which aligns with this calc.

Next, we saw it doing roughly 64% to slither wing in sun without the umbrella. This aligns with this calc.

This means, that regardless of Utility Umbrella or not Hydro Steam becomes a 120 base power move. It receives a sun boost / drop on top of this.

thanks to TDK for taking the time to help me test this stuff out

Wait, so are you saying it gets the 50% sun boost on top of the base power of the move going from 80 to 120 in the sun?
 
yes, but i found something interesting while looking into this...

it appears that with utility umbrella hydro steam not only loses the boost from the sun, but also is nerfed in the sun.
E: the relevant stats are 192 hp / 126 spdef on slither wing, and 145 spatk on wake.

we see here hydro steam doing 28% to slither wing. (137/192)

in this clip we see hydro steam doing 156/192 hp or about 20%, in sun with the utility umbrella attached

here we see here hydro steam doing about 64% to slither wing. (69/192) strangely enough, this aligns closer with a 2.25x (1.5*1.5) increase as opposed to a 1.95x increase that it should have. (1.3*1.5), so this may be worth looking into more as well.

these calcs are really strange because with the umbrella on in sun, wake is doing ~33% less with its move compared to when its used out of sun, i hope someone else can confirm the exact % decrease with more tests because i am pretty busy tonight but figured this would be a good place to bring it up, and can basically confirm it is not a 1/2 reduction. also the strange 28% to 64% calc from getting knocked is also interesting so i encourage somebody to run this test with a larger sample size and see if the 1.3x proto * 1.5x hydro steam aligns and i just got weird rolls, or if its really 1.5*1.5..

tldr, hydro steam receives a nerf in sun of about 33% while holding a utility umbrella not how it currently works on ps.

Edit:

So, after some calcs I have a good idea of how this move works. In sun, Hydro Steam becomes a 120 BP Water type move.
With the utility umbrella attached, this move becomes 120 bp and is then halved in power. We saw it doing 20% in the clip which aligns with this calc.

Next, we saw it doing roughly 64% to slither wing in sun without the umbrella. This aligns with this calc.

This means, that regardless of Utility Umbrella or not Hydro Steam becomes a 120 base power move. It receives a sun boost / drop on top of this.

thanks to TDK for taking the time to help me test this stuff out
This math doesn't seem correct no? If hydro steam really did get a sun boost on top of a power boost, the multiplier would be 1.5 (Power boost) * 1.5 (Sun boost) * 1.3 (Protosynthesis) which is closer to a 2.925x power boost. Which is a whole .7x off of the difference in power we actually saw (2.283x). It seems significantly more likely that this has more to do with disparate damage rolls with a small sample size no?
 

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