Metagame Scarlet and Violet CAP Metagame Discussion

Concept Everything · Feb 2, 2024

bruised said:
Could you put the Chromera being busted with a real ability into perspective for me? I hear you, I’m just not seeing the vision chief.

The main issue with Chromera outside of 4x weak to fighting and being weak to Hemogoblin is the fact you can’t reliably use your strong STAB moves without the aide of Tera. If Chromera was able to maintain its normal typing while taking attacks with its good bulk it becomes a very hard to kill breaker. Although the playerbase wasn’t the greatest when CAAAP was popular Chromera no longer had the downside of losing its primary source of damage STAB Boomburst which made it an incredible breaker. It’s viability really depends on the ability it would receive as that would change its set depending on what the ability was given, however switching color change enables Boomburst spam which effectively breaks any slower paced teams with ease.

Elvira · Feb 2, 2024

Concept Everything said:
The main issue with Chromera outside of 4x weak to fighting and being weak to Hemogoblin is the fact you can’t reliably use your strong STAB moves without the aide of Tera. If Chromera was able to maintain its normal typing while taking attacks with its good bulk it becomes a very hard to kill breaker. Although the playerbase wasn’t the greatest when CAAAP was popular Chromera no longer had the downside of losing its primary source of damage STAB Boomburst which made it an incredible breaker. It’s viability really depends on the ability it would receive as that would change its set depending on what the ability was given, however switching color change enables Boomburst spam which effectively breaks any slower paced teams with ease.

Thank you for putting things into perspective. For quite a while I was lost on how to viably make it work and run. You’ve been a great help!

Samirsin · Feb 2, 2024

I would like to add that even though "Defective Ability" was the concept, it's not the complete concept. The full concept and final product was "This Pokemon manages to work around an ability that is generally considered harmful, and is viable, or even better for it."

MaahirMomtaz12 · Feb 2, 2024

bruised said:
That’s why I addressed regenerator. It isn’t an overall buff that could take away its signature design, but at least something to give it a better niche that what it already has. Maybe recover, slack off, some hp regen if not.

Regenerator is a massive competitive addition. No one will use Colour Change again

Samirsin · Mar 9, 2024

CAP ladder usage stats of February and what they tell us about the ladder metagame
(also forgive me I forgot past months lol)

By using this stats (1500), here are some points:

Hemogoblin
Equilibra
Venomicon
Cresceidon
Miasmaw
Caribolt
Cawmodore
Snaelstrom
Stratagem
Revenankh

+----------------------------------------+
| Cresceidon :sv/cresceidon:

Hemogoblin
Equilibra
Venomicon
Cresceidon
Miasmaw
Caribolt
Cawmodore
Snaelstrom
Stratagem
Revenankh
Aurumoth
Plasmanta
Arghonaut
Malaconda
Krilowatt
Colossoil
Astrolotl
Tomohawk
Saharaja
Pajantom
Jumbao
Syclant
Smokomodo
Venomicon-Epilogue
Kitsunoh
Pyroak
Cyclohm
Chromera
Naviathan
Fidgit
Voodoom
Mollux
Crucibelle
Volkraken
Kerfluffle
Necturna

If we used the the 4.52% cutoff, these next CAPs would be UU by usage:

Kerfluffle
Necturna

Total leads: 4954
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Snaelstrom | 5.49551% | 304 | 6.136% |
| 2 | Venomicon | 4.54422% | 194 | 3.916% |
| 3 | Malaconda | 4.41088% | 194 | 3.916% |
| 4 | Krilowatt | 3.93005% | 154 | 3.109% |
| 5 | Fidgit | 3.16354% | 186 | 3.755% |
| 6 | Tomohawk | 2.99885% | 130 | 2.624% |
| 7 | Cresceidon | 2.75884% | 141 | 2.846% |
| 8 | Stratagem | 2.70106% | 152 | 3.068% |
| 9 | Hemogoblin | 2.26381% | 113 | 2.281% |
| 10 | Glimmora | 2.24634% | 97 | 1.958% |
| 11 | Astrolotl | 2.17512% | 126 | 2.543% |
| 12 | Equilibra | 2.16713% | 102 | 2.059% |
| 13 | Miasmaw | 2.11326% | 129 | 2.604% |
| 14 | Dragapult | 2.08155% | 82 | 1.655% |
| 15 | Venomicon-Epilogue | 1.93635% | 91 | 1.837% |
| 16 | Crucibelle | 1.85966% | 117 | 2.362% |
| 17 | Saharaja | 1.82286% | 97 | 1.958% |
| 18 | Jumbao | 1.79324% | 101 | 2.039% |
| 19 | Aurumoth | 1.64333% | 93 | 1.877% |
| 20 | Colossoil | 1.56340% | 92 | 1.857% |

weatherless...................81.25559%
offense.......................47.41197%
balance.......................33.42471%
sun...........................14.60212%
hyperoffense..................11.68265%
voltturn...................... 5.15996%
stall......................... 3.87345%
semistall..................... 3.60721%
rain.......................... 2.14713%
monotype...................... 1.68275%
hail.......................... 1.36407%
sand.......................... 0.68609%
trickroom..................... 0.54083%
monobug....................... 0.39088%
sunoffense.................... 0.33791%
choice........................ 0.25268%
monoghost..................... 0.22634%
hailoffense................... 0.21390%
monopoison.................... 0.18341%
monofire...................... 0.16267%
monowater..................... 0.15345%
sunstall...................... 0.15106%
monofairy..................... 0.10760%
monosteel..................... 0.08935%
monorock...................... 0.08885%
monofighting.................. 0.08027%
monodark...................... 0.07379%
sandstall..................... 0.07311%
monodragon.................... 0.07299%
monograss..................... 0.06625%
monoground.................... 0.06002%
multiweather.................. 0.05499%
sandoffense................... 0.05144%
monoelectric.................. 0.04107%
gravity....................... 0.03799%
rainoffense................... 0.03417%
monopsychic................... 0.02559%
tricksand..................... 0.02346%
tailwind...................... 0.01760%
tricksun...................... 0.01275%
mononormal.................... 0.01129%
monoflying.................... 0.01085%
monoice....................... 0.00388%

Stalliness (mean: -0.093)
-2.0|#
|
-1.5|####
|###########
-1.0|###############
|################
-0.5|###########################
|##############################
0.0|##########################
|#############################
+0.5|##############
|############
+1.0|######
|####
+1.5|#
|#
+2.0|#
|##
+2.5|##
|
more negative = more offensive, more positive = more stall
one # = 0.49%

CAP 34 is on its way!
Walking Wake, Kingambit, Slowking-Galar and Great Tusk are the most used non-CAP Pokémon.
Ababo learned how to make tacos.

shnowshner · Mar 17, 2024

Yo after having watched a lot of SV during CL and playing in Seasonal I want to spend some time talking about mons/sets I think are pretty hot right now regardless of if its anything cool or not.

NP Venom

Venomicon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Poison / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Hurricane
- Body Press
- Roost

Nasty Plot has seen a pretty significant resurgence since CAPCL (thanks team India), and looking at popular defensive mons right now it's a solid response. Notably, opposing Venom that run only Knock/Body Press/Sludge Bomb are complete setup fodder, especially if they trade Knock for Rocks and lack any meaningful way of making progress against you. Hurricane is a big fat damage button that chunks frail neutral targets or Flying-weaks, but the shaky accuracy requires you to play this mon slow and deliberately. NP Venom is a wincon that really wants to take its time and make sure problematic mons are statused/chipped and scouted fully. Thankfully, with a strong defensive profile and HDB, it's not hard to position Venom into winning matchups and find chances to stay healthy with Roost. A huge boon to this set is that Venom just by existing adds a ton of value to your team, and since Body Press + Roost are standard moves you can keep the opponent unaware of your true intentions. Yes, I find Body Press is your best secondary attack: it doesn't benefit from NP, but who cares when taking stray hits is setup as well? This move is critical for smacking Flying resists like Equilibra and Heatran without fear of missing boosted canes, or when you don't have time to boost. You could drop it in exchange for Sludge Bomb to have additional security against Hemogoblin, which Venom isn't a reliable check to when you have to rely on Hurricane, but you make your bad MUs significantly more awkward in doing so. Idk if SludgePress + NP is worth it, you sorta want Hurricane to pressure Arghonaut. I think Tera Ghost has potential as a means of further bullying Argh as you dodge Circle Throw, you are made more vulnerable to Knock but proper sequencing + Stamina means it's a worthwhile trade in the right situation: maybe you even tack on Shadow Ball to harass Gholdengo but the move kinda sucks without +2 or Tera, so you may just want to stick with the Tera.

Bad Venom

Venomicon-Epilogue @ Vile Vial
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Flying / Poison / [Cheeky Defensive Tera]
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Gunk Shot
- Coil
- Roost

I've noticed an uptick in Epilogue usage lately and it's rising feels quite similar as to why NP Venom saw a resurgence as well, takes advantage of specific defensive mons and blows holes in much of the meta after a Coil. With hazard control being sucky I can understand why people were less than thrilled to try EBook earlier, but the power of Offense right now and you sorta lacking solid defensive checks makes it a high value option if you think you can play it right. Webs/Tailwind structures seem quite good with it as you bypass the mediocre Speed tier, extra funny gamers can also pair with Thunder Wave spam to greed extra Coils or run the forbidden SubCoil set that reminds you how much of a dickhead Dragapult is. EBook is nice for these faster-paced Offense teams that want the defensive profile of a Knocked Venomicon with half the bulk but twice the rizz and it's cool to see it on such an upswing.

PA 3:57 AM Backroads Final Boss

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Poison / Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind / Stealth Rock
- Ruination / Stealth Rock

I'm a big proponent of Ting-Lu because it's this huge mountain of stats with fantastic utility and a useful typing to boot. IMO A lot of CAP users severely underrate this mon in the transition from OU: this set and slashes aren't innovating on anything, mon's just fantastic at gatekeeping Special Attackers, getting Hazards up, and harassing the opponent with Whirlwind. You can run 2x Hazards on Ting-Lu pretty comfortably as its mere presence alone can force the opponent out, so all you need to do is contribute to winning the hazard war and occasionally toss in EQ/Ruin/Whirl. You do need to play it carefully at times since Ting relies heavily on the item slot to function as a wall. There is still room for experimentation as well: I once got my Stratagem owned thinking it was safe into Ting-Lu, only to be met with an OHKO by Heavy Slam. Reminder that Gen 9 loves overtuned mons and you have base 110 Attack.

Azu if it was good v2

Primarina @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Tera Type: Steel
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Moonblast / Draining Kiss
- Flip Turn
- Psychic Noise

Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Steel / Poison
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Moonblast / Draining Kiss
- Substitute

Another popular OU mon that at first may seem like a weaker Cresceidon, but these two mons function quite differently. As good as Cresceidon is, it's a pretty big momentum sink and lacks meaningful damage output. Prim slots much better onto the Offense spectrum of teams with its high Special Attack, pivoting, setup, and funny move of Q1 SV Psychic Noise. I've seen a ton of it in Seasonal so far and I imagine usage will remain steady as Offense continues as the #1 style in the metagame. Water/Fairy is just such a strong typing to have and the two play nice in not encroaching on the other's niche.

Double Dance Mana :manaphy:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Poison / Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Acid Armor
- Scald
- Stored Power

Anytime I hear SHSP talk about stupid mons Manaphy comes up and having used it once on a team whose gimmick was the letter M, I can confirm this feels like a win button if your opponent loads a bad MU or makes a singular misplay. Having the option to shutdown both Physical and Special attackers is already the demon special, but you add in free status removal via Take Heart and Manaphy can quickly become insurmountable outside of getting lucky turns. Add in your good typing, good bulk, random high Speed for the type of mon this is, plus Tera, and Manaphy is a terrifying late-game mon. Knockless CAPs like Libra, Mollux, and TWave Cresc really do not like seeing this Mana on the other team, and you benefit a ton from Dark-types like Hamurrot and Roaring Moon being less of an issue thanks to CAP introducing strong Fairy- and Fighting-types (Venom is an honorary Fighting STAB user). Tail Glow doesn't impress me as much with Argh being a problem and all the strong Priority you have to deal with, but it's still an option for immediate breaking potential.

CM Mollux :mollux:

Mollux @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dry Skin
Tera Type: Ground / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Lava Plume
- Sludge Bomb / Clear Smog
- Recover

I think this is a more recent innovation? Either way Mollux has been on the rise lately as Hemogoblin remains top threat in the meta. I EV'd this to always outspeed Adamant Hemo with the rest going into HP and Defense, with an extra point to beat 0 EV Great Tusk. You don't really need investment in Special Attack since Mollux has enough already. Slower spreads are definitely possible but dodging faster Tera Blasts + Kingambit felt pretty useful on setup. Clear Smog has been used over Sludge as well to deny opposing setup, which sounds strange given the 50 BP but tbh you still deal good damage to Hemo and preventing opposing setup in such a dangerous meta is always beneficial.

Also since CL is over and the floodgates are pretty much open I think it's imperative that action be taken against Hemogoblin. The mon is simply too constraining on the builder and is more than capable of beating checks with the right set bring, and we've honestly put it off far too long. It is a mon that gets murked by Tera pretty often given the linear gameplan, but it legit mandates such Teras for teams lacking a dedicated answer, which means the Tera is often predictable and thus asking to be anti-meta'd in due time. I'll keep the rest of my thoughts towards it for whenever discussion opens proper.

Waldinji · Mar 19, 2024

shnowshner said:
The mon is simply too constraining on the builder and is more than capable of beating checks with the right set bring, and we've honestly put it off far too long

As much of a big change to the format at large as a hemogoblin nerf / Ban (until a proper nerf is found , Idk exactly how that functions) is , I will agree with the massive contrains it puts both on the teambuilding and the battle itself for an entire year pretty much (We'll get to that later)

The obvious one , Pretty much every single team (from personal experience as a SV builder and player in general) has a fire type [Gouging fire not being included in that list because +1 Tera fairy exists] (or a veno) as a result of this thing , As good as many fire types are in the format Thanks to their ability to somewhat check / Prevent Pixiespeed from getting out of hand too quickly , that can lead to many exploitable results , Mainly Hemogoblin's Good pairing on the likes of Shrimp Spikes teams or Booster Speed Bulk up Tusk , both examples being able to overwhelm the hemogoblin Check or use set check as a way to gain momentum respectively , as many fire types (mainly Magma Storm-less Heatran or Mollux) are momentum sinks giving the opposing team the advantage on that front. And another teambuilder constraint is the movepool variety on the last slot. Sometimes , it just spikes on your fire type suspecting a raw pixilate extreme speed to revenge kill the likes of roaring Moon , Or it can just tera Ground your heatran , or it's the standard Moonlight as last slot , giving it set up opportunity where it otherwise shouldn't have them because of the lack of recovery on the other moveslots.

And in the battle itself , It's somehow even more contraining because you will usually only have 1 Hemogoblin counter (even that is doubtful sometimes) per team and it needs to be kept healthy , or alive at all unless it's the likes of defensive heatran or veno (who again , Loses to tera ground in the case of heatran) , and unlike most sweepers that are difficult to stop , Twave from cresceidon (who is also a momentum sink check) is useless into it because it's main move is +2 Priority , Also making it impossible to finish off without your own pixilate extreme speed or your own extreme speed in general. Hemogoblin is , maybe other than gouging fire , the worst mon to give even a single free turn without a check to it being alive , making it insanely opressive to play around in the battle itself , giving the hemogoblin user the advantage just on the basis to keep one of your mon healthy.

Just wanted to mention my experience both running , testing and battling Hemo for the past year. as much as I joke calling it "Balanced Hackmon but legit" , This mon is probably the single scariest (Not the best , just the one you have to play around the most carefully) in the entire format because of how easily it can get out of hand and how versatile it's last moveslot is

spoo · Apr 17, 2024

out of seasonal so will share what i used

vs shsp / vs vuldark

shared all of these before and 3 out of 4 are samples so wont say anything more about them

vs lasen

i think these teams are both pretty solid (also samples now). the kyurem one was ripped from a successful ou structure that had dozo > argh, it works pretty well and i would recommend both of these teams still

vs exithe

alt version

i forget what the idea behind prep was this week lmao i think i just wanted to load some quirky cteam-y offense, i remember running into kinda bad matchups but i somehow got like 3 meteor beam boosts with strata and won the set so that was pretty funny! i am fairly confident rev's gonna end up getting poltergeist removed because imo it was slept on even before the buff; it's a great spinblocker that can enable some interesting spikestack or glimm offenses, is a solid anti-offense tool in its own right, and is surprisingly good into a lot of venom balances. these are slightly jank teams so i wouldn't recommend them for must-win games but they're pretty fun and i think they play mostly fine

vs dpm

i wanted to switch things up a bit since i had mostly been loading ho or fatter stuff, so bo / semistall / normal-ish(ish) libra balance was what i settled on. the kril team is pretty fun altho tera stellar is probably not optimal lol. i think this was also when i started building a ton with alo - unfortunately a super exploitable mon (hello oger) but enables enough unique stuff to more than make up for it imo. sub pult, knock hamu, and knock barb clef are all assholes into fatter teams and alo lets you play the long game very easily. offense matchup is a bit harder w this team but not impossible at all. now this milotic squad ... LMAO okay i actually really like this 6 but it was totally untested before playing dpm and i think some of the set choices were a bit too ambitious however this team is gas nonetheless

vs entro

alt version

same team
knocked into losers nooo.... i couldnt be asked to build 6 teams for rr so reused one and edited another, but unfortunately i did not play super well esp in g3 and got goobed. i think this version of the milotic team is a lot better though; tera fighting is just generally better than fire on reu, barb helps force progress vs fat and makes reu trade pretty well into booster mons on offense, gastro acid mollux was mainly for gliscor but does some other fun stuff, and body slam zama was to force permanent progress vs its longterm checks like argh/cres/venom etc - though i think an ID set might be better anyways since it's really just an anti-offense mon here. was pretty happy with the bolt team as well tho it's a bit annoying if you can't surprise KO a venom/libra/ghost with mirror coat. i'd recommend all 3 of these teams with these changes to the milotic one

vs dpm again

choked on balls g1 but both of us forgot to save that replay thankfully. the veil is pretty interesting but i'll just shout out the caribolt set - lum is great since a lot of counterplay comes down to stuff like pult or dirge wisp / gliscor toxic / cres scald burn, and tera steel means you dont get nuked by draco, shard, espeed, etc making this mon pretty hard stop from claiming at least one KO or forcing a tera. got a second glimm + ghosts ho with a lot of tools to beat down standard balance and fat. the snael team is an edit of something i loaded a few months back that had pult > oger, but i think knock off + fast encore + pressuring bulky waters makes oger the better choice for that slot. not the best 3 teams in this post but they get the job done

vs mada

knocked out of the tour NOOO..... i could complain about luck but that's just mons and i don't think i played this series perfectly anyways, so there's not a lot i can really whine about. i don't typically build or load bos like this in sv which made prep this week a fun and interesting challenge, especially trying to make both teams solid into the hard stall and hos that i thought might be coming. there are some really cool techs on these teams and i'm very happy with how they both turned out. maybe some small changes like smack down > tomb on lando or different coverage on dirge would be optimal but it's hard to say. ggs mada and gl in finals, was a fun tour!

shoutout D2TheW and SHSP for bouncing ideas around with me the whole tour and Meta-Knight for doing a lot of testing/chatting/polishing during the last week or two. overall i'm confident in my building skills but i still have a long way to go as a player; some of the games this tour were definitely not ones i should have lost. looking forward to winning 34 playtest tho so i'll see y'all then

bonus stuff i never loaded, was either too unpolished or never felt good about the mu i'd run into

TheFurretStar · Friday at 10:48 PM

the meta will get very interesting once 34 com3s out, just you wait

Metagame Scarlet and Violet CAP Metagame Discussion

Concept Everything

Neko no Ensekan

Elvira

formerly bruised

Samirsin

✧Rey de los Snom✧

MaahirMomtaz12

Samirsin

✧Rey de los Snom✧

shnowshner

You've Gotta Try

Waldinji

spoo

TheFurretStar

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