Battle Stadium Scarf Fini + Zapdos Offense

DerpySuX

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This is probably one of my favorite teams I’ve ever made. It just works so well for me. Initially I started as a more balance team but I began to tweak things here and there and well, arrived at this. I’ll go over everything as best I can.

The members :Hippowdon: :tapu-fini: :Zapdos: :Cinderace-Gmax: :celesteela: :Garchomp:

Pokepaste - https://pokepast.es/6a32fb9983ceff7f

Hippowdon - honestly nothing is special about this set, it’s just a standard physically defensive spread that sets up rocks and annoys the opponent as much as possible before dying. Yawn and Whirlwind are great utility for stopping setup sweepers, and Earthquke is a great move to have in general for doing damage if you need to. Sitrus berry is again, very standard, and just allows a bit of extra safety so Hippowdon can get his job done.

Fini - I would say Fini is probably the star of the team at the moment. Scarf fini has incredible surprise factor, being able to punish the opponent for trying to take advantage of the more standard, passive set. Moonblast and Surf are taken for consistent damage via her STABs, and ice beam is used to punish Lando, Garchomp, Zapdos, and Dragonite if they decide to stay in against her. Timid scarfed Fini can actually outspeed adamant Landorus-Therian after a max airstream, making her a good emergency revenge killer for a decent portion of Landorus sets. Finally, Trick is used to punish more defensive approaches, such as porygon2 or calm mind fini.

Zapdos - again, not too much to say here. Very standard life orb dynamax sweeper set. The only real difference is the use of pressure, feigning a defensive set and potentially lending a false sense of security, and discharge, as it’s close to thunderbolt in power, and the paralysis chance outside of dynamax can change the tide of a game, other than that though, very standard stuff.

Cinderace - I shouldn’t really have to explain what this thing does. The bunny just kinda unga-bungas at any team without a solid switch in/intimidate user. I chose Assault Vest as the item, since Zapdos is already holding the life orb, and the extra bulk also makes it a little easier to get Ace on the field to start dishing out damage. I also chose Gunk Shot over Sucker Punch as my fourth move, allowing Cinderace to come in on, and punish Calm Mind Tapu Fini if it decides to stay in. This can be key as outside of Garchomp, the other offensive threats on this team are specially oriented, so calm minders tend to give them issues should they get going. Cinderace is able to potentially switch into a hit with assault vest, and force the more common calm minders out with the threat of big damage, which can open the doors for a sweep if played correctly.

Celesteela - again, very standard defensive set. Initially I did consider offensive Steela, but the benefits of having a sturdy backbone largely outweigh the pressure another offensive threat would provide in my opinion, especially considering Zapdos does what offensive Steela would do on this squad, but with more consistency and doesn’t mind being tricked as much, since it doesn’t entirely rely on its item to sweep. Leech + Protect are pretty mandatory on defensive celesteela, heavy slam is chosen to be more of a threat to things like chansey and to be able to threaten tapu fini with a good hit as well, and Flamethrower is useful in Steela dittos or against threats like Kartana that Steela checks very nicely. Leftovers as the item to really maximize longevity, and that’s about it.

Garchomp - by far one of my favorite Pokémon, and this set is honestly super fun. Swords Dance and Lum berry are an obvious pair, allowing Garchomp to set up basically whenever he wants. Outrage is chosen for more consistent damage outside of dynamax, and Earthquake is mandatory ground STAB as always. The real surprise here is Iron Head as the last move. This allows Garchomp to potentially beat Pokémon usually sent in to deal with him, such as Mimikyu, as Max Steelspike will boost his defense, and allow him to eat a play rough, and 2 steelspikes allow Chomp to potentially swallow a Max Starfall, and KO with iron head. The rest of the team packing methods of dealing with other chomp checks like Ferrothorn, P2, and Celesteela opens up room for experimentation with the last move, and Iron Head I’ve found to be a good surprise move, as well as pairing nicely with max quake in dynamax to make Garchomp absurdly difficult to take down, and potentially open the doors for a sweep.

Thank you for taking the time to read this! This is my first RMT so hopefully I did ok. c:
 
Nice team!

I have a few questions:
- Have you considered running Scale Shot over Outrage on Garchomp? Garchomp is reasonably fast in this meta and a speed boost means it can't be easily revenged killed by common scarfers like Tapu Fini. The downside is that it is not 100% accurate.
- How do you deal with opposing Zapdos? The only safe switch in you have is your own Zapdos.

My suggestions:
The Yawn shenanigans really only work against inexperienced players. Most people have counters for it (people even run Air Balloons on trapping Heatran for example).
I think you should role compress your Hippo and Garchomp into one mon by using SR Chomp with a sash. You have a number of dynamax options in your team so I feel a support set will be good. This frees up a spot for another mon. Rock Tomb is handy to drop the speed of the opposition lead.

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot / Rock Tomb
- Rock Tomb / Swords Dance

You do lose a set up sweeper if you don't run swords dance. I recommend running Ferro over Celesteela :
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
This can set up in end games vs passive mons like P2 and can also check end game Mimis. (having a back up to Fini for passive mons gives you more options in team selection)

Losing Celesteela makes Lando tougher to deal with. If you free up a team slot by using Support Chomp then I recommend using a P2. I feel your team needs another mon that functions outside of max as well. P2 is bulky and annoying. It can waste your opponents max. Most people will try Knuckle it to take it down. This works to your teams advantage as you have plenty of counters to knuckle mons with Zapdos and Fini.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Tri Attack
 
I've heard of more Cinderace running AV for a while, but I've never tried it. My understanding, which well might be wrong, is that many of these run Giga Impact for Max Strike to keep Zapdos' Spe down, and/or Zen Headbutt for Naganadel. Both those moves are options anyways, but esp. on AV cause they're relevant vs. special attackers. Is that correct, and if so could one of those moves go over Bounce? I wouldn't make the suggestion of getting rid of Gunk Shot, I run it too.
 

DerpySuX

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Nice team!

I have a few questions:
- Have you considered running Scale Shot over Outrage on Garchomp? Garchomp is reasonably fast in this meta and a speed boost means it can't be easily revenged killed by common scarfers like Tapu Fini. The downside is that it is not 100% accurate.
- How do you deal with opposing Zapdos? The only safe switch in you have is your own Zapdos.

My suggestions:
The Yawn shenanigans really only work against inexperienced players. Most people have counters for it (people even run Air Balloons on trapping Heatran for example).
I think you should role compress your Hippo and Garchomp into one mon by using SR Chomp with a sash. You have a number of dynamax options in your team so I feel a support set will be good. This frees up a spot for another mon. Rock Tomb is handy to drop the speed of the opposition lead.

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot / Rock Tomb
- Rock Tomb / Swords Dance

You do lose a set up sweeper if you don't run swords dance. I recommend running Ferro over Celesteela :
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
This can set up in end games vs passive mons like P2 and can also check end game Mimis. (having a back up to Fini for passive mons gives you more options in team selection)

Losing Celesteela makes Lando tougher to deal with. If you free up a team slot by using Support Chomp then I recommend using a P2. I feel your team needs another mon that functions outside of max as well. P2 is bulky and annoying. It can waste your opponents max. Most people will try Knuckle it to take it down. This works to your teams advantage as you have plenty of counters to knuckle mons with Zapdos and Fini.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Tri Attack
- I have considered scale shot, but I prefer outrage for the more consistent damage. My team really isn’t lacking in good speedy offensive threats, I have 2 airstream sweepers and a reasonably fast scarfer, so I much prefer the consistency of outrage.

- Assault Vest Cinderace actually handles opposing Zapdos a lot better than you might think, and with Zapdos often coming in on tapu fini to attempt a sweep, I often get a free hit in since scarf fini outruns Zapdos, making even easier for Cinderace to revenge Zapdos.

I appreciate the suggestions, and I’ll mess around with some. The reason I chose Steela over ferrothorn is because I needed a good stop to Landorus, and also defensive Steela is stupid fun to use imo. I have actually messed around with a version of this team that uses porygon2 but I found that it becomes far too passive to force an advantage consistently. Thanks for the input! c:
 
Yeah Steela and Ferro play similar roles in a team. Steela defo has a better MU against max Lando for your current team (also gives you a switch into its Quake). So I understand why it is in your team. I have used both in my team and have preferred to use Ferro (it made more sense for my team and it can set it self up without relying on KOs).

With Zapdos v Ace: There are defensive Kee Berry Zapdos running around. It is not as common as the other sets but that could really wall your Cinderace and team even with AV (it has recovery and you do not).

I get you use Fini to chip is down and then revenge it (because I play scarf Fini too and do the same). I do the reverse of what you do. I trade maxes with my Rhyperior. I drop its speed with Strike (Horn Drill). Rhy threatens Zapdos because they have to fear Quake on a roost. So you guarantee to keep Zapdos' HP down after max for the revenge kill (most roost and die to rhy). So I like Omastar's suggestion of running Giga Impact (but not sure which move to replace).

Judging by your comments, Zapdos doesn't seem to be a big threat to you. But if it becomes a problem then I suggest trying Rhyperior to counter it. It has really good synergy with Fini and Steela. Rhy also has good MUs vs Cinderace and Mimi as well.
 
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DerpySuX

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Yeah Steela and Ferro play similar roles in a team. Steela defo has a better MU against max Lando for your current team (also gives you a switch into its Quake). So I understand why it is in your team. I have used both in my team and have preferred to use Ferro (it made more sense for my team and it can set it self up without relying on KOs).

With Zapdos v Ace: There are defensive Kee Berry Zapdos running around. It is not as common as the other sets but that could really wall your Cinderace and team even with AV (it has recovery and you do not).

I get you use Fini to chip is down and then revenge it (because I play scarf Fini too and do the same). I do the reverse of what you do. I trade maxes with my Rhyperior. I drop its speed with Strike (Horn Drill). Rhy threatens Zapdos because they have to fear Quake on a roost. So you guarantee to keep Zapdos' HP down after max for the revenge kill (most roost and die to rhy). So I like Omastar's suggestion of running Giga Impact (but not sure which move to replace).

Judging by your comments, Zapdos doesn't seem to be a big threat to you. But if it becomes a problem then I suggest trying Rhyperior to counter it. It has really good synergy with Fini and Steela. Rhy also has good MUs vs Cinderace and Mimi as well.
Yeah I’ve run into Kee Zapdos a couple times, usually I just phase it out with Hippowdon or kill it with my own Zapdos if that’s the case. I have misplayed and lost to it a few times but as of right now I don’t see it often enough, let alone lose to it, to really warrant changing a team that otherwise doesn’t really struggle with it. I’m only in like the mid 1600s on the cart ladder right now though, so time will tell when I get back to higher ladder, maybe up there I’ll need to take some more counter measures. Well just have to wait and see
 

DerpySuX

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So I was finding that my team tended to not enjoy priority such as sucker punch in the end game, and so I tried replacing fini with lele, and so far it’s been going quite well. I lose the utility that trick provides and that is a blow, but lele also has the raw strength to break past some of the walls that fini would trick with her STABs, fishing for a SpDef drop with psychic is manageable against P2 and if I chip it just enough or smack it on the switch, max mindstorm has a good shot at finishing it off. Lele provides some much appreciated security against priority from the likes of Urshifu and Mimikyu, and while losing the ability to dodge status with almost all of my team is a blow, I believe the extra offensive pressure Lele exerts with her higher power makes up for that. Overall I’m enjoying this change quite a lot and will likely make future changes to the team to better accommodate this more offensive approach lele allows
 
Just out of interest what EVs and moves are you running for Lele? I have seen a few scarfed sets run bulk to survive hits from certain mons.
 

DerpySuX

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Just out of interest what EVs and moves are you running for Lele? I have seen a few scarfed sets run bulk to survive hits from certain mons.
Just standard max spa max speed and then I run
Psychic
Moonblast
Psyshock
Energy Ball (for swampert and other annoying waters)
 
That's a fine spread to Spe tie Jolly Scarf Darm-G, but if you think you could give that up, you could run as little as enough for +Spe Scarf Rotoms, or less if those are not a threat/too uncommon.
 

DerpySuX

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That's a fine spread to Spe tie Jolly Scarf Darm-G, but if you think you could give that up, you could run as little as enough for +Spe Scarf Rotoms, or less if those are not a threat/too uncommon.
It’s actually to outrun Lando at +1 so I can revenge kill if need be.
I’m not particularly scared of Rotom either because Garchomp handles them just fine with boosted wymrinds and lum means they can’t freely wisp me. Also Rotom isn’t even that common
 
That makes more sense. If thhat's all, and the scarf Darm/Lele mirror don't matter, you could run 28 HP. That avoids the otherwise 12.5% OHKO froim Zapdos LO Airstream, and reduces the chance of unboosted DNite Airstream ohkoing, though not by that much(93.8% down to 75.) You also live +1 Dual WIngbeat from it better. I'm sure it does more too,
 

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