Gen 6 Revisiting ORAS Monotype

[TheWyvernKing]

Is it possible to suspect MAlt? It deserves a fresh chance now that it is no longer allowed on flying teams (and Dragon is currently C rank atm)

Even before type bans were established the people supporting the bans were saying zardx should be banned from flying and malt should be banned from both flying and dragon. In fact the common perspective was that it was a threat on Dragon but never used on flying, which is very contradictory from the message you're putting forward that it's issue was flying cores and support. Dragon has healing wish, and with mega alt makes some hard mus far more difficult. The result of which would likely increase Dragon from C--> B/A but in turn make Dark, Fire, fighting, and Electric struggle immensely because of 1 pokemon, all the while bringing back one of the strongest setup sweepers in the game. Flying hardly used Malt at the time, I was pretty sure of that before going on the thread where it was reconfirmed, ZardX was far more common at the time and Malt's presence was mainly recognized for its use on dragon. There were even some people unsure if it needed to be banned from Flying cause, like how you want Dragon to be viable, they feared the combined ZardX and Malt ban would cripple the type too much (though to be fair Zapdos was banned at the time).

Took some screenshots. As a general reminder too Pixilate got debuffed from gen 6 to 7, and gen 6 in general doesn't have the same amount of answers for strong fairies spread across types that we have today. The most threatening set for most types was probably the mono attacking set as a result, Roost/Refresh/DD/Frustration. Even if a type had a solid counter Dragon is able to offer healing wish support. You might've been the one I talked to about in mono chat the other day about this but no, it shouldn't be unbanned.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Kinda how I see ORAS VR right now

 

[Cell]

Here's a few of my thoughts on the meta

Trends & Takes

- Ground resurfaced, scaring away the Electric spam that had gone unpunished for so long. Standard build still seems whatever into most things.
- Fairy got used a couple times, and I think it's very underrated. CM Clefable + BD Azumarill + Mega Diancie matches up well into a lot of stuff.
- Normal also got brought a few times. Really good defensive core + Mega Lopunny should make it an A-rank type.
- No types (including Psychic) stand out to me as S-rank in the current meta. Couple grief picks and a whole bunch of A- and B-ranked stuff. Nothing seems centralizing. Not exactly balanced, but there isn't any small group of types much better than the rest.

Keldeo

I think Keldeo should go because it became way more restrictive in the builder ever since people started entertaining SubCM again. Keldeo possesses a great speed tier, 129 base special attack, and STAB-boosted Scald and Secret Sword. This allows the Choice Specs set to frequently come in on something slower and OHKO/2HKO something, or fish for a burn to invalidate one of its few potential switchins. Versus some types, like Ground, Steel, Dark, Rock, and Ice, the SubCM set's ability to switch moves and create a Substitute versus the many Pokemon that it forces out makes it incredibly difficult to deal with. It's almost single-handedly the reason why Dark isn't really brought to tour games. When factoring in both sets with all possible coverage (impossible to make a set prediction off the rest of their team), one comes to the conclusion that there are very few Pokemon on viable types that can reliably switch into Keldeo long-term.

Mega Gallade

Do not ban Mega Gallade. I've always thought it was a massive fraud ever since Deoxys-S got banned. Fighting had very little relevance this past tour and Psychic isn't anywhere near as centralizing as it was before banning Deo at the start of MPL8. Gallade hardly ever comes up when building since most of my finished teams end up naturally being okay against it at worst. Pretty much every viable type has good enough answers to it.

Landorus & Mega Gyarados

If Keldeo were to go, the meta should definitely be given some time to develop after such a significant change. I don't think these two are broken in the current meta, so they should stay regardless.

Would like to see more discussion. I think the meta has been in an okay spot ever since Deo left, but it could still be improved with a Keldeo ban. Nothing else should go.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

- Ground resurfaced, scaring away the Electric spam that had gone unpunished for so long. Standard build still seems whatever into most things.
- Fairy got used a couple times, and I think it's very underrated. CM Clefable + BD Azumarill + Mega Diancie matches up well into a lot of stuff.
- Normal also got brought a few times. Really good defensive core + Mega Lopunny should make it an A-rank type.
- No types (including Psychic) stand out to me as S-rank in the current meta. Couple grief picks and a whole bunch of A- and B-ranked stuff. Nothing seems centralizing. Not exactly balanced, but there isn't any small group of types much better than the rest. [/hide]

Yeah meta trends were fun this MPL. Rise in Ground and Normal and all of a sudden Elec is gone. I'll also say Dragon is hella underrated and you're 100% correct about Normal too. Idk if I'd call it the same tier as Psy/Water/Fly which you seem to suggest if there are no S class types, but defs just a step below.
Fairy though Idk if I'll agree. I think less prep for fairy can make it more viable, I wouldn't be surprised if people drop Iron Head on Skarm for example if they don't expect it. That being said I still see it end of the day as about the same if not slightly worse than Ice is. I'd feel more confident Ice v. Ground or Ice v. Psy tbh, both win Water, and Fly is fairly neutral, though I think fairy has a better mu vs. more off meta types.

I think Keldeo should go because it became way more restrictive in the builder ever since people started entertaining SubCM again. Keldeo possesses a great speed tier, 129 base special attack, and STAB-boosted Scald and Secret Sword. This allows the Choice Specs set to frequently come in on something slower and OHKO/2HKO something, or fish for a burn to invalidate one of its few potential switchins. Versus some types, like Ground, Steel, Dark, Rock, and Ice, the SubCM set's ability to switch moves and create a Substitute versus the many Pokemon that it forces out makes it incredibly difficult to deal with. It's almost single-handedly the reason why Dark isn't really brought to tour games. When factoring in both sets with all possible coverage (impossible to make a set prediction off the rest of their team), one comes to the conclusion that there are very few Pokemon on viable types that can reliably switch into Keldeo long-term. [/hide]

This I'm on the fence about, you're absolutely right about it being the sole reason Dark isn't used, and it's probably the pokemon holding back Steel the most as well, though realistically I don't think the other 3 types hold as big a decision in it's suspect or not. To be honest my opinions on Keldeo change constantly, I was super pro ban, then after playing ORAS a bit more and some old friends coming back online I kinda fell out of the banwagon for a bit, and now I'm mostly uncertain but would definitely consider it worth talking about.

 

[Floss]

After the end of MPL IX, a survey was sent out to a mix of people who have either played ORAS Monotype in recent tournaments or have a high level of knowledge regarding the tier. The results for the survey can be found below.

Survey results

Considering the results of the survey, it is determined that sufficient support warrants tiering action taking place on Keldeo in ORAS Monotype. A thread will be put up in Policy Review shortly on the topic.

 

[Floss]

The Policy Review thread on Keldeo is now up, so this thread will be locked for the duration of the tiering process and reopened afterwards. Any posts made on the topic recently will be moved there shortly, and discussion on the topic can take place there.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/keldeo-in-oras-monotype.3727304/

 

[maroon]

Keldeo is now banned! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-monotype-keldeo.3728052/post-9790424