Research Group #4: Golbat, Munchlax, Mantine and Sneasel

[skylight]

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mons chosen by dtc and tennisace due to their bitching about the previous week if you hate these mons direct your anger at them xoxo​

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Introduction​

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NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.​

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Some rules​

• Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
• Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymonning. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". If you want to suggest something, send a forum Private Message to me. Also, Pokemon from past research weeks will be used again simply because the metagame has obviously changed since this project was last brought about.

The four Pokemon for this week (17/07/13 - 24/07/13):​

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Questions to consider when posting here​

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How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused as well!​

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The Research Week Challenge​

• Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
• Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 85.
• Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.
• If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
• In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Week will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group (yes, I'm aware I'm c/ping this but I'm actually going to actively update the hub, so!)​

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Every one or two days during the week I'll post questions which I expect you guys to be involved in. If you have any questions about this project, feel free to send me a PM, otherwise just compete in the challenge, and actively post here too discussing the sets throughout the week. Remember that the NU mods keep an eye over everything even when they're asleep and you could get one step closer to earning CC if you actively post here and keep up discussion. n_n​

 

[skylight]

oh placeholder

 

[Celever]

I have actually been using a phasing set on Munchlax utilizing Mandibuzz and himself as a physically and special core, and I am actually very impressed. He can tank special hits like there's no tomorrow and can remove any status conditions with ResTalk - Rest, Sleep talk, Body slam and Whirlwind are all he needs.

This week I will try Sneasel (I have Sneasel in NU conq so it works out well :P) as a late-game cleaner. The issues I can find with Sneasel is his fairly low power and demolishment from priority. Other than that it's good though! ^_^

 

[Shuckleking87]

A munchlax-golbat core might sound very interesting to use, as they cover each other's weaknesses pretty well. Mandibuzz could also work in favor of golbat, as they are extremely similar physically defensive pokes. Golbat can take on fighting types better, while mandibuzz takes on musharna and psychic types, and does not have to be worried about ground-rock types as much (as a roost golbat fears most earthquakes). These two pokes plus some hazard support will be my next team to build

 

[Othesemo]

Dunno if I'll have the time to participate, but I will say that Golbat is one of my favorite mons in NU. A set with Toxic/Taunt/Roost/Brave Bird, if played well, can wall and stall out nearly every physical threat worth mentioning, and while the weaknesses that Flying type brings to the table aren't exactly desirable, the problem is mitigated by access to reliable recovery. Also, his speed is awesome for a defensive mon.

If I get a chance to ladder, I'll be doing it with Sneasal. I don't think that I've ever seen him in action before, so it'll be a fun experience.

 

[Punchshroom]

Having used all of these at some point before, I'll just give some of my input on these guys.

Golbat is one of the biggest pains for a stall team to face: the dreaded Taunt + Roost, Eviolited bulk, high speed, Toxic immunity and Super Fang can drive them utterly insane. Aside from that, it makes a marvelous counter against Scolipede and Primeape, sporting three 4x resists in Bug, Fighting and Grass as well as a Ground immunity, making it a good switch into prominent physical attackers in the tier and shrug off their blows. It shares many of its traits with Mandibuzz, but cannot hold Leftovers and does not have good alternate STAB should it not want Brave Bird. Golbat is still good at its job though, arguably handling a greater variety of physical threats than Mandibuzz can, in exchange for some prevelant special weaknesses, notably Psychic which would not trouble Mandibuzz at all.

Munchlax can tank some hits and either stop a sweeper by phazing its boosts away or paralyzing it with Body Slam. Hardwalling a large amount of special sweepers, Munchlax can certainly hold its own against them long enough to wake up from Rest. Of course if something is forced to rely on Rest just so everything and their mothers don't KO it before it can react, you know it's not looking up. RestTalk is pretty unreliable, especially if you want to paralyze/phase a threat at that very instant. Munchlax is also incredibly easy to force out with something physical that doesn't hit like a pussy, resetting the Sleep counter and usually ensuring Munchlax never gets a chance to wake up. Again, reliance on Eviolite means passive damage will take its toll on Lax, asleep or not. Cleric support is near mandatory if you want your sleeping Munchlax to not be unreliable deadweight, but it can still work, to an extent.

Mantine has both an awesome defensive typing and offensive typing, but considering Mantine"s bulk and the fact that Swanna exists, it would be wiser to take advantage of the former first. Resistances to Fighting, Water, Fire, Bug and Ground are really handy to have, while that enormous special defense staves off the likes of Ice and Psychic well enough. Mantine's dual STABs net good neutral coverage, and while Mantine isn't the hardest hitter, it can turn into a strong force with Rain Dance + Swift Swim. Mantine is also one of the better Substitute users due to how easily it uses its defensive typing to soak up attacks, while Sub blocks status attempts meant to circumvent Mantine's bulk.

Sneasel is one of those...specialized pokemon. It has interesting dual STABs that can threaten many offensive threats. Between the trapping Pursuit and priority Ice Shard, Sneasel can snipe threats such as Swellow, Jynx, Haunter, and Drifblim easily, and can corner them into mindgames, so Sneasel at least does a good job at targeting what it can. It also has Ice Punch (for bulkier Ice weak mons like Serperior, Golurk, and Braviary), Low Kick (Rocks and Steels) and Punishment (stronger Dark STAB and stat-boost deterrent) to back itself up. These assets combined with very high speed and usable Attack should've been a recipe for success, but as you many have noticed none of those moves even reach 80 base power consistently, to the point where Foul Play is an option to borrow its opponents' power and utilize Foul Play's high base power, just to make up for its incredibly low damage output against neutral targets (makes Zebstrika look like a powerhouse in comparison). Since it falters against defensive pokemon, its best (only) matchup is against offensive teams that cannot keep up with Sneasel's speed and attacks. Its weaknesses are a bother too, but thankfully those are fairly easy to patch up.

Each of these pokemon can do things, but are often so ineffective that they end up in the dust due to more favorable and non-one dimensional options. They can definitely work, they just want/require more support than most other pokemon to perform their jobs. I wish all users the best of luck!

 

[DTC]

i've been using a bit of sneasel lately and it's alright. my set is pursuit / foul play / ice punch / taunt with eviolite. sneasel should be played as a utility mon imo. it's way too weak to be used as a cleaner, and gets owned by priority if you use life orb. sneasel's utility comes from being able to beat fast and powerful threats with pursuit / foul play. ice stab is always nice and taunt helps you beat things like musharna (since they rarely run coverage moves nowadays anyways, and sneasel being able to beat musharna is especially useful because he can take quite a bit of health off of her guaranteed) instead of sitting there doing 20% a turn. i didn't run ice shard because sneasel is way too weak, but maybe it is the best option.

i wouldn't say sneasel is that good, but it has a nice niche. it's probably the best jynx check (read: not best counter) out there as it can switch into ice beam / psychic / psyshock and kill jynx guaranteed with pursuit. its speed tier and pursuit is also excellent for securing kills on fast mons, and it can even take a hit or two (especially special hits) thanks to eviolite.


also mantine owns.

 

[Annoyer]

alt: tomoko

I already have two teams based on Mantine (using HnC's set with Air Slash / Scald / Toxic / Protect with mixed defenses) and another semi-stall one with Munchlax (RestTalk Whirlwind with Double-edge cause idgaf and i rule). The Munchlax team is basically a team based on hazards (including tspikes) from Garbodor and abusing it with Munchlax phazing, walling shit with Regirock, toad, and eggy as a status absorber, and then Mandibuzz just to stall everything. Munchlax is such a good check to stuff like Jynx, Special Charizard, Regice, basically a lot of special attackers, and it does a great job at it too. I run Double-Edge to do a lot of damage to stuff and Munchlax has a lot of HP to take recoil. The only bad thing about Munchlax is that if he is forced out after he has used Rest and has taken damage because then you still have to get past two turns of sleep the next time you come back in which is lame =(. The Mantine team just uses Mantine's great typing for a defensive core and the offensive core of that team is Zangoose + Kanga (double normals etc) and Mantine is just a really good pivot. That team is like super weak to Jynx though so I'll prob change goose into pursuit tauros.

 

[Dell]

Yeah I think I'll have a bit of an interest towards trying this out here since there's a couple of Pokemon in particular that I've been looking to try out for some time (especially Golbat and Sneasel), but haven't had the time of making a well-synergy made core for them. Anyways, onto the analysis of what I know about them:

Golbat: This is a pretty anti-metagame Pokemon to speak for itself. Golbat is a great stallbreaker that currently competes for Mandibuzz nowadays for a specific teamslot towards their roles, as both are similar with some unique but minor differences. While Mandibuzz is able to deal with most Psychic-types a lot better and has access to Foul Play to give physical attackers a hard time switching in and thus a good shot of being them 1v1, Golbat makes up for being notably faster, which gives it an easier time towards making use of its utility within Taunt or Toxic without having to relying on Speed creeping so much to sacrifice its defensive capabilities. Golbat is still able to make use of its decently powerful Brave Bird to discourage frail Pokemon such as Jynx from switching in. Golbat also has access to Super Fang, which gives it a much easier time breaking through resists as opposed to Mandibuzz, allowing Golbat to soften up walls for its teammates who has trouble with them sweep later on. This allows Golbat to effectively lure a lot of Rock- and Steel-types who expect to come in on a Brave Bird or Toxic consistently, making offensive Normal-type Pokemon ideal partners as they usually have trouble breaking through more defensive cores among physical walls or resists. One of Golbat's more significant niches from Mandibuzz aside from that is that its typing is a lot better for matching up against threats like Sawk or Scolipede, and even then, its good natural bulk allows it to take most weaker attacks from the likes of Kangaskhan, Golurk, Seismitoad, or physical Samurott and proceed to stall them out with Toxic.

Munchlax: I had my doubts on Munchlax for quite a while since it appeared to be relatively dead weight outside of countering Jynx, but that reason alone is honestly enough to justify its viability into the NU tier. Less and less Jynx are utilizing Psyshock on its Life Orb set, which makes its niche more relevant. Not only that, but its excellent Special Defense and the help of Thick Fat allows it to shrug off hits easily from the likes of special Charizard, Serperior, Musharna, Seismitoad, Swanna or Ludicolo and proceed to either attack or phaze them out with Whirlwind. Its bulky offensive set is also interesting since it can be used to trap Jynx and hit reasonably hard with the added investments in Attack, but it still requires a lot of support to keep itself healthy throughout the battle as it attempts to check multiple special attackers. Its major downside is that its easily worn down by especially passive damage due to the lack of Leftovers or a reliable recovery move, which means that its forced to use Rest at a certain time or die, which in turn can drastically lose a lot of momentum.

Mantine: This has always been a pretty decent Pokemon overall, but I find that it has always fell under the "jack-of-all-trades" towards the number of roles that its capable of using. It's a good pivot for what it's capable of walling because of its good typing and can utilize a Rain Dance set that can break through a lot of offensive threats. Its good Special Defense in particular allows Mantine to setup on the likes of Ludicolo or Charizard, and proceed to threaten most teams that don't have a good special wall or Water resist. Unfortunately, it does have its flaws despite this. The lack of Roost gives it a lot of competition towards Pelipper, who also sports unique utility options such as U-turn or Hurricane and also doesn't have to sacrifice two moveslots to move use of its healing, giving it much better momentum overall. Pelipper also has better mixed defenses, which makes it pivot against threats even better. This makes Mantine's weakness to Stealth Rock a much bigger detriment than Pelipper as it really cripples its defensive capabilities, and with its low defense its Rain Dance set makes it vulnerable towards getting revenge killed by the likes of Kangaskhan or Skuntank.

Sneasel: A pretty unique Pokemon as well from what I've gathered. At first, I was shy from using items that didn't get it substantial Attack boosts because it makes Sneasel much easier to wall for how weak its damage output between its middling Attack stat and relatively low Base Power most of its strong STAB options are. Sneasel has a lot of unique options to utilize for a STAB move, with Pursuit probably being its most useful move. With this, I found Eviolite to be pretty useful because of how much easier it is to switch into threats like Jynx and Haunter and trap with Pursuit, giving it a much more defining use of it overall. Aside from that, it has other utility options like STAB Foul Play, Ice Shard, or Taunt to make it an overall effective utility Pokemon. Base 115 Speed is also pretty awesome that allows it to outspeed so many common offensive Pokemon and pick them off once they have been weakened a bit. I have yet to use this thing very much as well and it still has its inherent flaws, but I think it'll be a pretty decent utility Pokemon.

 

[ryan]

Golbat is seriously one of the coolest Pokemon in NU, probably because when you look at it, it doesn't seem threatening at all, but in practice, it's actually insanely good. What I like most about Golbat is that it plays well against both offensively and defensively oriented teams. It has incredible bulk; cool defensive typing that gives it three 4x resistances, an immunity to Ground-type attacks, and an immunity to Toxic; and reliable recovery. This helps it take on offensively oriented teams. Then against more stall-based or generally bulky teams, Golbat has a fast Taunt to shut down a lot of defensive threats, and it can stall many of them out with Toxic and Roost. Its versatility with just one set is what makes Golbat so good. On top of that, if you need a nice check for the Fighting-types in the tier—Sawk, Primeape, Gurdurr, etc.—as well as some other physical attackers—Golurk, SCOLIPEDE, etc.—Golbat can handle them all really well. Hell, with Inner Focus to prevent Rock Slide flinches, Taunt to prevent Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and Brave Bird to nail it hard, Golbat pretty much shuts down Scolipede altogether. Obviously the comparison to Mandibuzz has already (and likely will be again) been brought up. They are very similar Pokemon on paper. But Golbat has the niche of greater overall defensive typing thanks to its 4x resistance to Fighting and 4x resistance to Bug, while Mandibuzz can beat Psychic-types and has nice passive recovery with Leftovers.

Both of these Pokemon are plenty valid for a slot on your team, but fuck, Golbat just rules so much and is underused. I was going to say "grossly underused" but it's actually #60 for June, which really isn't all that bad. Even so, Golbat rules, and if you haven't tried it, you should.

 

[Kierany9]

Mantine is amazing. As a replacement for Yamask on a joke MummyKing team I made, I turned a pathetic excuse of a team into an amazingly balanced team with a two-man Mantine-Basculin rain core just for the hell of it, with the rest of the team not benefiting from rain at all. Sacrificing a moveslot for Rain Dance is worth it so that Mantine/Basculin can spam STAB rain-boosted Hydropumps/Waterfalls. Mantine was eventually replaced because the team stacked up way too many electric weaknesses(4 or 5 weaknesses, 1 immunity) but it was a great asset to the team. Very few Pokemon can reliably switch into Mantine's attacks, and those that could were outsped because of Swift Swim or were taken out after having to deal with Mantine's substitute. It also has insane special bulk, which lets it take a few hits before it goes down. Its SR weakness can be overlooked if it has leftovers(which really helps heal up the substitute damage).
Overall, Mantine is a great Pokemon that can fit on any team without 5 electric weaknesses. No, seriously. A Pikachu can OHKO this thing without even holding a light ball.

 

[Shuckleking87]

User: golax
FormatACREGXEGlicko2WLT
nu 1838 85 1954 ± 82 25 4 0
Two losses came to multiple freezes(2 and 3) in a game (be nice if I could get the freeze). But munchlax+golbat+misdreavus (all eviolite ftw) and a ground type formed a very effective defensive core; and coupled with hazard damage, was a very easy team to get wins with. I am surprised with munchlax. Yes, it is known for being a sitting duck special wall, and sawk are a common switch in into munchlax. However, with double edge, I am able to do about 50% on the switch, thus putting the opponent in a tight situation (the high damage and high hp make double edge preferred especially with toxic spikes). Also a very good jynx switch in, as I never see psyshock jynx anymore. Golbat is a very good poke, and able to almost wall entire teams. It is also great that golbat has a 90 base speed (even higher than mandibuzz), so it can beat it 1 v 1 if needed (which has happened). I ran a golbat set with whirlwind/toxic/roost/super fang, which worked for me, however, losing taunt and getting thunder waved was very annoying ( and for some teams, their only chance to break through golbat). I feel that if I gave up one of those moves, however, golbat would not have functioned as well. I am not quite sure if I prefer mandibuzz or golbat however, as having leftovers and matching better against stealth rock leads is a plus.
I think munchlax is very unappealing because of the lack of reliable recovery (why you no get slack off), and the fire resistance is not that useful as fire moves are not that common. I think miltank is the preferrable special wall, as it has better physical bulk, gets leftovers and a reliable recovery move, and has a little more unpredictablilty. I do not think I will be using munchlax too much in the future. Even though it did its job, it was not really a productive member in winning, but stalling out time (which was fine with toxic spikes).
I was a big fan of golbat a long time ago (before it was really even somewhat popular or known), and this challenge definitely opened my eyes to its potential. Again, this poke is not as "fun" to use as it just flys and stalls out time, but it is such a great physical wall, coupled with the fact that it cannot be poisoned. I will be using golbat in the future.

 

[skylight]

Okay imma post about one mon right now, and ladder a bit tomorrow with these mons that I don't have as much experience with, or have faced much in this meta :)

I haven't actually used any of these thus far in this meta, but I have faced Golbat, and it was pretty annoying to take down. I'm pretty sure I just tricked it and just played around it with SR up, but the fact that it has a poison typing and good bulk (with access to Roost) makes it a lot harder to get around as it can't be Toxic'd and other than Jynx, the types super effective to it aren't really as relevant in the NU metagame lately. For those who haven't posted yet, what have you been using to get around it in this meta? Do you find it's easy to use, and can fit on a variety of teams? Do you think it can be compared to Mandibuzz (or better than due to its ability to wall NU threats), or could work in a team WITH Mandibuzz? Share yo thoughts.

 

[Raseri]

MANtine is the best Pokemon ever. I've always used it a lot but lately its been on a bunch of my teams again. STAB Air Slash and Hydro Pump is just to good to pass up. It is the best way for rain teams to beat Ludicolo because its faster, and its also decently strong with Rain up because of its base 80 special attack. Another thing that makes Mantine cool is that it can run a bunch of defensive sets as well, which are almost as good as the sweeper set. Mantine can wall the meta or sweep it depending on what it feels like. It can fit on a wide variety of teams, from hyper offence to bulky offense or balanced teams. It's also really cute :)

 

[skylight]

This is now research group meaning it ends when I decide it has had enough activity, rather than a "week" (and also because on the first day I have free in a few days, battles aren't working on PS and I can't really try out mons, and I know people on #NU have been discussing stuff too, so if you'd like to post about that, it'd be great). So try to get a little more discussion happening, guys, and I'll definitely get replying here when I can test out these mons. :(

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Munchlax @ Eviolite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Careful Nature
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Toxic


Womp Womp.

This thing is not nearly as bad as advertised, and plays the role of a decent pivot on semi-stall and balanced teams. Obviously works well on stall as well, although I would likely use a full blown specially defensive set rather than a mixed wall as shown here. Anyway, I use the mixed wall set simply because it really doesn't need the massive amount of special defense it already has....it takes almost every neutral very well and can rest of a lot of the damage. Using 252 defense is simply very important for turning virtually every relevant neutral physical attacker's stab neutral from a 2HKO after rocks to 3HKO or worse. For example.

252 Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 125-148 (26.37 - 31.22%) -- 33.11% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 191-226 (40.29 - 47.67%) -- 53.91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, standard Munchlax has a statistically higher chance of being 2HKO'd than MixedMunch even has of being 3HKO'd....meaning MixedMunch has a chance of coming in, taking a Waterfall, and either paralyzing or using toxic and still having an opportunity to rest or phaze with Whirlwind.

+1 0 Atk Eelektross Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 220-261 (46.41 - 55.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 Atk Eelektross Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 144-171 (30.37 - 36.07%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock


Now i you are staring down an Eel. Munchlax can either be a good option or a relatively poor one depending on the set. Against Coil, Mixed will always allow you(barring shenanigans) to phaze, while standard is guaranteed to get killed on the switch....even without rocks.


On the other hand, you will be 3HKO'd by say...Choice Specs Thunderbolt instead of 4HKO'd....but it's much better to be 3HKO'd than 2HKO'd in my opinion. In terms of maximizing survivability utility, I've found this Munchlax to be very effective.

 

[InsaneDragoniteHD]

Munchlax : I have never used him at all in the NU tier, but I do know he is easily shut down by the lack of recovery and having to usually resort to Resttalk sets to not be complete dead weight. Also, heard that he is a good counter to Jynx because of thick fat and being able to phaze her out is what he does best. Also, Munchlax has considerable special defense from what I know.

And now the last mon I have played with/seen on many teams :p

Golbat : One of the bulkiest things in this meta right now. Golbat can take any hit that is physical reasonably well and can counter the many fighting type pokemon that plague the meta right now, and it can wall pokemon like Primeape to an extent, even if the opponent is using ice punch and or Stone Edge. Stone Edge and Ice Punch tend to do thirty or so percent to Golbat, allowing it roost off the damage it has taken. It can wear things down with Super Fang effectively, cutting defensive pokemon and offensive pokemons' HP in half, lowering their lifespan during the match. Golbat also comes with a decent speed stat, allowing it to outspeed a portion of the meta, mainly because it is sitting at 90 base speed, which is not too bad for NU. Hosting an immunity to Toxic is nice as well, because then Golbat can switch into common Toxic users in the meta, allowing it to sponge the status move until it gets taken down. Also, Golbat has usable attack, meaning that even being defensive, it will do a decent chunk to anything that does not resist Golbat's stab moves.

Scarfers do take Golbat almost down with anything that is Super effective. Faster pokemon such as Jynx,Rotom-S(Scarfed), and pretty much anything that hits from the special side can take down Golbat. SR also hinders Golbat, because it has a weakness to stealth Rock because of that flying typing, only allowing it limited switch in. While Golbat does get roost, you will be limited to how many switchins you can make because Golbat might not be able to take a hit from a certain range. Any Status does hinder Golbat, because status like Burn do wear it down every turn, and even with Roost, a burn can change the course of a game. Also, pokemon that easily take hits like Regirock or any defensive pokemon that is physically defensive and resists Brave bird, can wall Golbat and then go for the effective move on the Golbat. Piloswine is also a threat for Golbat, as it can do a ton of damage with Icicle Crash and it can go for the EQ, if it predicts the Roost. While Roost is viable on Golbat, it does leave it to be able to be taken down by ground type moves, spelling doom for Golbat. Along with that, there are other threats to it like Haunter ,who is immune to the Toxic and the Super Fang,making it be able to sub up on its face and disable its Brave Bird if it wants to go for it. Also, Haunter can retalitate back hard with Thunderbolt if it runs it.

Mantine : I know this pokemon is a good special wall and has good resists. Might ellaborate more if I knew about it.

Sneasel : I know this pokemon can do a ton of damage if given the opportunity, but is stuck to running limited items,because of its inability to take a hit.

 

[Othesemo]

Roost can also get rid of Golbat's flying typing for one turn, allowing it to absorb T-Spikes.

Leaving the rest of your post, that's not how T-Spikes work. You have to switch in a grounded poison type. So, using roost on a Golbat already on the field wouldn't get rid of them, while switching in a Golbat holding Iron Ball or under the effects of Gravity would.

 

[InsaneDragoniteHD]

Leaving the rest of your post, that's not how T-Spikes work. You have to switch in a grounded poison type. So, using roost on a Golbat already on the field wouldn't get rid of them, while switching in a Golbat holding Iron Ball or under the effects of Gravity would.

Sorry, I derped out and thought that for second :I

I knew that, but for whatever reason, I thought opposite :I

EDIT : I took it out of the post, so people would know it was a mistake.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Okay imma post about one mon right now, and ladder a bit tomorrow with these mons that I don't have as much experience with, or have faced much in this meta :)

I haven't actually used any of these thus far in this meta, but I have faced Golbat, and it was pretty annoying to take down. I'm pretty sure I just tricked it and just played around it with SR up, but the fact that it has a poison typing and good bulk (with access to Roost) makes it a lot harder to get around as it can't be Toxic'd and other than Jynx, the types super effective to it aren't really as relevant in the NU metagame lately. For those who haven't posted yet, what have you been using to get around it in this meta? Do you find it's easy to use, and can fit on a variety of teams? Do you think it can be compared to Mandibuzz (or better than due to its ability to wall NU threats), or could work in a team WITH Mandibuzz? Share yo thoughts.

I've personally used both Golbat and Mandibuzz on multiple teams, and I can say they work very similarly with a few niche advantages over each other. Golbat is pretty easy to use because of its bulk and ability to wall threats like Sawk, Primeape, and even +1 Pinsir with moxie if it's locked into cc or x-scissor. Bat does suffer a bit from 4MSS but you can fit it to your team's general needs. A set of super fang, taunt/toxic, roost, and whirlwind can REALLY annoy stall and defensive teams especially if you've set up hazards. However, against more offensive teams you might want brave bird over super fang to deal more consistent damage. Golbat fits pretty well on most teams whether they're offensive, defensive, or balanced teams because of the roles in can fill with its movepool. In comparison to Mandibuzz, Golbat doesn't differ much aside from being slightly faster and walling more relevant threats in the meta-game in terms of what roles it fills. However, Mandi is actually immune to the psychic attacks that Golbat struggle with and can wall threats such as Musharna with relative ease and then proceed to phase it out with its own whirlwind. Mandibuzz also gets slightly more bulk without having to sacrifice leftovers recovery. Overall, they both play very similar roles with minor differences that can suit different team's needs. Finally, I tend to deal with other Golbats with either knock off or trick to get rid of the eviolite. Without eviolite, Golbat is not nearly as bulky and usually a stab special attack can finish it off pretty easily from there.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Just one more thing, I kinda prefer Mandi has actually proven to be better than Golbat for me against some of the more offensive mons like Golurk, Zangoose, and Pinsir because of foul play. In fact, in can OHKO Golurk outright which is tad more impressive to me than what Golbat has done for any of my teams. That's not to say Golbat is outclassed by Mandibuzz because it definitely has its advantages. I'm just able to fit Mandi more easily on most of my teams from personal experience.

 

[Othesemo]

Alright, I didn't think that I'd be able to participate this week, but my schedule's cleared up and this is still going on, sooo...

Currently in the process of laddering with Sneasel- turned out that my first alt on Showdown, Othesemo, hadn't been used since the ladder reset, so I'm using that. And Sneasel's competitive value aside, it is apparently the best good luck charm that NU has to offer. I'm currently sitting on 14 consecutive wins, so expect glowing praise for it once I get my deviation low enough.

EDIT:

fuck liepard

Also, here's my team.

Basically, CB Sneasel is an awesome revenge killer, but nothing else. It can check a bunch of different threats really easily thanks to its typing and speed, and if you really, really need one pokemon that can check all of Jynx, Serp, Golurk, Braviary, Zard and Swellow w/o Quick Attack, then Sneasel is basically perfect for the job. If you're looking for a mon that can do anything other than check Jynx etcetera, then you should probably look elsewhere. It's an incredibly specialized mon that does what it does well, but isn't much of a team player. Additionally, while every mon's usefulness in an individual match tends to vary based on the opponents mons, Sneasel takes it to a whole new level- unless the opponent is running one of the aforementioned mons, it can't really do much of anything.

As such, I think Sneasel is a great candidate for the sixth slot on a team- it's never gonna sweep, and it won't usually get more than one kill, but on the right team, it can reliably get that one kill that you need to win. Not something you can just throw onto any team, and it's not really something that you can build around (I tried, and it ended up just being a feature for Samurott and Shiftry), but if you've got a team like mine that absolutely hates Jynx (or Golurk or Serp etcetera), it can be a life saver. Also, it's way cooler than Metang, so there's that.

 

[skylight]

Going to post new research group in a bit. I'll be keeping HoF on NU hub from now on (which I'll put together on this weekend) rather than the second post, and now I have more time I'm going to actually get involved in the upcoming week, so without further ado, time to move onto the next research group~