Red & Blue Tier List: Pre-Evolved Pokemon Solo Run Edition

This is by no means a dead discussion. I'm quite happy that you're interested in the topic. If you have tier list nominations with concrete reasoning and evidence I'd be more than willing to discuss it with you. I gave my best when I put this tier list together by watching Jrose11 and looking at base stats and movepools on serebii.
Good to know. I was just wondering as it had been a good 5 months since the last post but this is essentially the only place for this specific discussion that I can find.

I’m currently fairly into solo runs atm and I got a couple more write ups in the works. Do you only want new Pokémon not mentioned in the thread or is it ok to concur if another user already posted about it?
 
Concurring with Clefairy for B tier. 90% of the run could be considered for A tier but the Brock fight alone keeps it back at B.

Name: Clefairy

Stats: Clefairy doesn't have any stats that jump off the paper at you but it's base HP and Special are pretty nice at 70 and 60, respectively.

Typing: While it's true normal types don't get anything spectacular outside of body slam, it's also true that the game lacks fighting types effectively making it not have any weaknesses at any point in the game. Everything is more or less neutral damage and that helps a run out in the long run.

Movepool: Clefairy has one of the deepest movepools in the game. Once you get past the third gym, you get instant access to all of the best moves in the entire game and early on Body Slam will carry you through large portions of the game due to it's heavy STAB damage. Defense Curl at level 39 allows you to take advantage of the badge boost for the tough fights and you can use things like Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Psychic to have superb type coverages, especially in the Elite 4 when it matters the most and it goes double when you play with the 'not saving between Elite 4 member' clause.

Major Battles: Clefairy struggles against Brock. There's no way around it. You have to grind to level 18 to get Double Slap to be able to take it on and it can take a while, but being in the fast level group helps it a lot. After that, the game doesn't really hit any hard walls. Some fights require some additional level ups or careful planning but there isn't much that you feel is impossible.

The Elite 4 isn't that bad as well and everyone knows that is where a Pokemon is made or broken. I finished the game with Ice Beam, Psychic, Thunderbolt, and Defense Curl. I hung on to Body Slam up until Lance but even then it had been a while in the game since I had used it a ton but with how TMs work in early games, I played it safe. Lorelei is weak to Thunder Bolt, minus Jynx. Bruno is Bruno. Agatha can always be annoying but Psychic is super effective against the whole team. Lance's Gyarados is double weak to Thunderbolt and the rest crumble to Ice Beam. For the Champion fight, the type coverage would be sufficient regardless of what starter you chose and Clefairy wouldn't be weak to any team combination.

Additional Comments: Clefairy lacks the required criteria to hit A tier in my book mainly due to the grind that Brock requires. The game becomes much easier after you get to level 18 to finally defeat Brock but, even though Clefairy has a fantastic movepool and coverage, doesn't necessarily have the stats to back it up and can't finish the game in a time that makes up for that first hurdle. Solid Pokemon. B tier is where it belongs.

Here's a video of the run if you are so inclined. It's a side hobby of mine and I feel puts a little proof behind the write-up.

 
More or less concurring with Cubone for D tier. It was really rough so I almost lean towards E due to how poor it does against the Elite 4, but the Pokemon in that tier do seem like they'd be worse so we'll stick with D for now. I have my writeup and if anyone is interested in footage from my source, I'll link a video. Cheers!


Name: Cubone.

Stats: At first glance, Cubone has a stat total of 270 which is on par or above some pre-evolved Pokemon but if you look a little closer, 95 of that is allocated to defense, which isn't as useful as you would think. That means that it's other stats are all below average as a result, including an abysmal speed stat of 35 and an awful special of 40. Attack and HP are both at 50. It's not very good.

Typing: Pure ground typing meaning it will be weak to a couple of key Gyms in Erika and Misty. Ice is also an issue due to Lorelei since the Elite 4 is always going to be the hardest part of any challenge run.

Movepool: Cubone has a solid moveset, mainly through TMs. It's level up learnset is pretty awful and you won't be retaining anything for long. You might hold on to Headbutt for a few minutes until you replace it with Body Slam but other than that, you start with Bone Club and will use that along with TMs you get along the way. It's TM movepool isn't quite elite level, but early in the game you can utilize water gun, mega punch, seismic toss, and dig while later you'll get access to things like ice beam and the all important earthquake for STAB damage.

Major Battles: Misty is one that you will have to skip, thankfully you can come back in the high 20s when you outspeed. This makes the fight doable without taking a ton of time to grind. Erika is the next 'regular season' hurdle and it's not as bad as you'd think. Victreebel and Vileplume both take neutral damage to earthquake while Tangela has a beyond awful moveset. You might have to take it on as your 7th Gym but it's not going to cost you a lot of game time to just skip it and return. I found in my run that it's doable way earlier than 7th due to AI.

Obviously, the Elite 4 is where every Pokemon is made or broken and Cubone is broken. Lorelei eats Cubone for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Seismic toss was required. I attempted the fights at a mere level 58 but had to level up into the 70s to make the fight consistent without needing a lot of luck. Fortunately, Lorelei is easily the hardest of the Elite 4 members, although I finished the game at a whopping level 87. Cubone is definitely not tailor made to solo the Elite 4.

Additional Comments: Cubone definitely fits the 'D' tier. I would say lower but considering the Pokemon in it, 'D' seems fine. It's actually fantastic for the initial Gym run and has really good time but it all falls apart when you hit Lorelei. Cubone's movepool isn't deep enough to easily deal with her and I had to end up leveling up a lot and seismic toss was my saving grace for the run. It took me 9:30 to finish the game with 60+ tries to make it through the Elite 4 since I don't save between members. It was brutal.
 
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Concurring Bellsprout for A tier. It's an interesting Pokemon and one that I've never seen anyone else actually do. It's weird because it's fantastic and my final time came within 15~ minutes of Jrose's Gastly time with minimum battles. It does have it's shortcomings and it's definitely not 'S' tier with the great Gastly but still among the top 3-4 of all the pre-evolved Pokemon.

Stats: It has a respectable special stat of 70. That's about all worth mentioning. It's attack is higher but doesn't really take advantage of it since Bellsprout's primary damage is special with vine whip and later mega drain.

Typing: As a Grass type, Bellsprout is super effective against Brock and Misty and resists Lt. Surge. On top of that, awful gen 1 AI with Erika means it's also a free win since her Pokemon just spam poison moves if they have them. Obviously, being weak to flying, fire, ice, and psychic pose problems later in the game, especially when you are doing minimum battles.

Movepool: One word: Atrocious. Among one of the worst movepools in the game. You start off with vine whip and growth and you'll use growth the entire game. You also learn wrap early shortly after Brock and you'll use that until you pick up Slam way later in the game. TM learning is nonexistent. I used a single TM when I made it to Agatha and that was mimic.

Bellsprout's strategy revolves around luck. Sleep powder with it's 75% accuracy, set up growths if you need them, then finish the fight with mega drain and/or wrap/slam if it's a resisting type. You get all of these moves around the time you fight Misty.

Major Battles: Blaine/Sabrina aren't as bad as you'd think. With 6 growths set up on top of badge boosts, Bellsprout's special is through the roof and non-critical hits from fire/psychic won't outright kill you. If you get the setup, even a single resisted mega drain will devastate things like Arcanine.

Lorelei is a challenge. With minimum battles, my exp was a little wonky. Being grass while her Pokemon are mostly half water means you deal back super effective damage and it's just a matter of outspeeding and getting some growths to one hit.

Agatha is normally a significant challenge. Remember, ghost/poison double resists mega drain and slam doesn't effect ghosts. Normally a checkmate but mimic a dream eater, put them to sleep with Sleep Powder, and it's psychic typing one shots all of her Pokemon. It was a consistent strategy and worked very well.

Champion fight took me several tries to get past. Pidgeot did super effective damage and you are forced to mimic Sky Attack to deal with Exeggutor and eventually the Charizard. Not as hairy as the other fights but since I don't save between Elite 4 members, making it there just to die to a critical hit Sky Attack turn two always felt bad.

Additional Comments: Bellsprout is a one-trick pony. Sleep Powder, set up Growths if needed, then Mega Drain/Wrap/Slam the rest of the team. It's movepool is atrocious and you basically have your full moveset in Cerulean City until you replace Slam with Mimic on the third Elite 4 battle. Overall, Bellsprout relies too much on a luck based strategy and, while I did do minimum battles and have a fantastic final time of 4:48, I did have to retry lots of battles and it wasn't the easiest or smoothest in terms of real life time spent.

It's a solid A tier Pokemon and I'm excited that I'm seemingly the first to capture a complete run on video and do the dirty testing to see where it stacks up in the echelon of proven 'Mons like Poliwag and Gastly. Conclusion: Bellsprout is similar to Poliwag with worse typing and a way worse movepool.

This has been another Gen 1 writeup to test some of these tiers out and it's a shame that it seems like I'm the only one active anymore. If you see this in the future, I'll leave the video I made of Bellsprout if any of it sounds interesting to you. I'll see you in a few weeks. I have Sandshrew footage I'm cutting together but all I can say is it's definitely better than the 'C' tier it's supposedly in.

 
Tentacool
I did a casual Tentacool->Tentacruel solo run through the game the other day so I thought I'd do a proper Tentacool attempt following the rules in the OP.

NB: The run was made on emulator (VBA) for ease of use and ability to use several save states for experiments. Save states were only used where a normal save was possible (i.e. no mid-battle saving) and Elite 4+Rival was done without saving in between. I played with an increased speed setting, but this doesn't seem to matter for the IGT. Not an expert on how/if it would affect the end result, but I wanted to be upfront with it.

Picked Bulbasaur for Rival despite Tentacool’s Poison typing. Tentacool matches up well against all 3 starters but I think Gyarados is the Pokémon that gives him the most trouble outside Alakazam so I considered Bulbasaur a tougher matchup than Squirtle.

Pewter gym is impossible before Wrap due to Acid being being a weak attack against Rock and Ground. At lv 13 I beat the gym trainer and Brock with relative ease. Supersonic helps against Brock, but inaccuracy of Wrap/Supersonic likely adds variance though I won on my first attempt.

Fought all trainers on route 3 since I knew from my casual Tentacool->Tentacruel run that Rival2 required use of mid-battle Potions and Misty was impossible if you did minimum battles from Pewter to Cerulean. Did not go out of my way to fight trainers on Mt Moon, but fought everyone that was on my way, including the Bug Catcher close to the Water Gun TM (important since Tentacool won’t learn it naturally for a little while and we will need it for Rival2).

Did minimum battles en route to Bill. Skipped Misty and went straight to SS Anne. Fought the Bug Catcher with Butterfree just outside Vermillion, otherwise minimum battles. Only fought Rival3 on SS Anne. Lt. Surge, like Misty, will be fought about as late as possible.

Fought Misty as I need Cut now, still didn’t outspeed the Starmie IIRC so the battle was tough. Perhaps a few retries, don’t remember exactly. Replaced Water Gun with Bubblebeam.

Fought most trainers on the way to Rock Tunnel, though I think I skipped ones that require a detour.

Don’t have Rock Tunnel memorized, though eyeballed a map before heading in. Think I fought two extra Hikers by chance, though that was probably a good thing for the extra Exp and they are easy sweeps with Bubblebeam. Had to reset twice, once to a Slowpoke and once to a Clefairy when I got two 5 turn sleeps against a Jr. Trainer F. with Oddish+Clefairy. Nothing really troubles you aside from the Slowpokes with Confusion. I used Wrap until they had ~1/3 health and finished them off with a BBeam.

Picked up Ice Beam (replaced Supersonic) and did min. battles at Erika’s gym. Victreebel was a 2HKO with Ice Beam and hit hard with Razor Leaf (~50% of my health IIRC), Tangela was a 1HKO IIRC and Vileplume was a 2HKO but Petal Dance didn’t do much damage. So despite Erika going with her most powerful moves, it was still an easy fight. Steamrolled Game Corner after, where I replaced Acid with Barrier on level up.

Finally went to do Lt. Surge as I need Fly to get to Lavender quickly and Vermillion is just around the corner from Celadon. Raichu was still a 2HKO with BBeam, but I outsped it at this point and Thundershock did very little damage so I think you survive a Thunderbolt easily at this point, perhaps even with a crit.

Rival4 can be dangerous if you have bad luck against Gyarados. I had 79 HP and he is a 3HKO with Ice Beam, luckily he only did one Dragon Rage. Kadabra was dealt with Wrap+BBeam, I can see a Wrap miss being a loss if you have low HP from Gyarados. Ivysaur is a joke with Ice Beam, easy 1HKO.

Got Surf (replaced BBeam) and took a slight detour on the way in Safari Zone to pick up the Carbos as speed is critical. Then went to Koga’s gym, which was the first point I really felt the impact of not evolving into Tentacruel who had an easy time here at a lower level. The first mandatory trainer’s Kadabra outsped me and he has three Drowzee’s alongside who’ll get a Confusion in when you miss a Wrap. Their Special is too high to go all out with Surf, so you have to Wrap them down to ~50% health first. Even setting up a badge boost with Barrier and getting lucky with Drowzee using Pound turn 1 wasn’t enough to win, so I need to do Sliph first to get some Exp so I can outspeed the Kadabra.

At Sliph minimum battles were not enough to beat Rival5 as both Pidgeot and Gyarados outsped me even with 3 badge boosts from Barrier. On my first attempt I froze Gyarados, but had no chance against Alakazam. Subsequent attempts never made it past Gyarados. Picked up the vitamins and fought two trainers to gain another level, but it was still not nearly enough.

Went back to Koga’s gym and could now make it past the trainers with relative ease, though the Kadabra still outsped me. Koga was pretty easy despite the Koffings being just out of 1HKO range with Surf, I used the Muk to set up 3x Barrier which allowed me to survive Weezing’s inevitable Selfdestruct.

Decided to stick with Barrier as I faced Rival5 again and the extra levels allowed me to outspeed Pidgeot right away and Gyarados/Alakazam with badge boosts. While Sand Attack would be a death sentence I still set up three Barriers on Pidgeot as I needed to be sure to outspeed Gyarados, after that the rest of the fight was easy. You might not need all three on Pidgeot and could wait and set up more on Growlithe for Alakazam, reducing the risk of a Sand Attack. Giovanni was easy, Surf 1HKO all but Nidoqueen and that looked like a range as she had only a sliver left.

Blaine surprised me as Arcanine managed a OHKO with a critical Take Down on my first attempt. Easily won on the second attempt though. Sabrina didn’t cause issues at this level and Giovanni was a joke as usual.

Rival 6 was incredibly easy as his Pidgeot allows Poison types to set up in peace. I actually had to re-do this battle about 3 times as I messed up on Victory Road and kept forgetting to save, but each time was an easy win.

I was pretty confident going into the Elite 4 as I easily won every battle on the first attempt with Tentacruel (started Lorelei Lv48, lv53 after Rival). While I expected a tougher go of it this time, I thought that with some luck I’d make it through. Not so much. Lorelei was a slog, but you win that fight ~70% of the time – it just takes forever with constant Wraps and finishing off with Surf or Ice Beam to save PPs. Bruno a walkover, even a critical Submission from Machamp is easily survivable due to Poison typing. Agatha was impossible I was outsped by the Gengars, with the Gengars being 3HKOs with Surf. The Tentacruel could just power through this battle with Surf, but the Tentacool stood no chance.

I then went to get the Rare Candy from Route 17, fought 3 trainers on Victory Road and did a suicide run to Agatha without healing/elixier to pick up extra exp (as I no longer need money), which put me at lv50 going into Lorelei with 7 Rare Candies.

At lv58 Agatha was surprisingly easy, despite me fighting her at only one level above what I did previously (I now saved 1 RC for Rival, previously I used them all just before Agatha). Tentacool now 2HKO all of her Pokémon aside from the lv 60 Gengar who still outspeeds me. But her AI seems to act up when you do significant enough damage so she spent more time switching and using potions than attacking. At first I thought it was luck, but I beat her on 4/5 attempts at this level.

Next up, Lance somehow became a problem. Though it was more down to him getting into my head since every E4 attempt starts with the drawn out Lorelei battle. My first attempt I accidentally walked into him before healing which apparently triggers the battle so I went in with ~40 HP. The 2nd attempt I played badly and misjudged my damage ranges and the 3rd went down to bad luck. The 4th was an easy sweep. His Gyarados can be dangerous if you play it wrong or miss several attacks, but the rest pose no threat though it is probably safest to set up badge boosts on a Dragonair to ensure you outspeed the Aerodactyl for a 1HKO with Surf.

Champion was a breeze despite me forgetting to use the last Rare Candy and leveling up at some point during the fight. A lot of things went wrong (2x Blizzard miss) but I still comfortably won.

End result: Lv60 Tentacool, 4:52 IGT.
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Bit disappointed with the 4:52 after making it to the E4 at the 4h mark, but that extra level was crucial. Since I forgot to use the last Rare Candy you could probably knock at least 5-10 minutes off the time had I not gone and picked it up (which was done in a slow and clumsy manner).

Minimum battles: Impossible, you can’t get past Brock before lv 13. I needed extra Exp at four points; Brock, Cerulean, Koga/Sliph, Elite 4

Stats: The primary reason I chose Tentacool, in terms of stats arguably the best special sweeper in the category if we exclude Abra due to the nightmarish early game. Fantastic Special and great Speed, HP/Att/Def not so much.
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Typing: Water/Poison.
Weaknesses: Bug, Electric, Psychic, Ground
Resistances: Fire, Ice, Poison, Water

Actually great IMO, Bug moves are nonexistent and only Surge and a few random trainers use Electric moves. Any Pokémon with dangerous Ground moves are likely 1HKOd by a Water move before they can use it. Tentacool's Speed and Wrap allow you to deal very well with the either frail or slow Psychic Pokémon and Poison not only covers the Grass weakness of Water it also breaks the “smart” AI at the end of the game for a lot of fights allowing you to set up in peace (Rival6, Lorelei, Lance). The Poison type also adds the QoL of being immune to Poison status which is especially helpful at the start. Surge's fast Electric Pokémon are a nightmare, but those are the only you face and he can be fought out of sequence.

Movepool: The movepool is extremely limited, but what you end up with can deal with anything the game throws at you. Even with an unlimited movepool I’m not sure what I’d replace considering the typing and base stats. Aside from Brock you aren’t going to struggle based on the moveset, STAB water moves takes care of almost everything with the high Special. Ice Beam/Blizzard for Grass/Dragon/Flying types. Wrap is a godsend with the high Speed. STAB Acid is very useful against all the bugs at the start. Gets two +2 self-boosts, though they both come somewhat late in the game. At no point did I really feel that I was lacking a move aside from when I was underleveled on Agatha where Psychic would’ve come in handy or a Thunder move to make Lorelei a bit more consistent and a whole lot less tedious, the fight did not change one bit with a few extra levels. It can learn Mega Drain, which might make Lerlei slightly faster/more consistent but then you're forced to use Blizzard for Lance and Rival.

My Tentacool’s moveset evolved as such:
Acid (lv1) -> Barrier (lv33) -> Swords Dance (TM)
Supersonic (lv7) -> Ice Beam (TM) -> Blizzard (TM)
Wrap (lv13)
Water Gun (TM) -> Bubblebeam (TM) -> Surf (HM)
In retrospect I’d stick with Ice Beam and skip Blizzard entirely after missing about 40% of my Blizzard attempts, that shouldn’t happen but I’d rather not have the risk when you're already relying a lot on an 85% move in Wrap.

Major Battles: The start is rough as you have unfavorable matchups in each of the first three Gyms (Brock due to lack of moves, Misty due to Starmie's Speed). But aside from Brock it is easily circumvented by changing up the order. If you didn’t read the longer writeup I did Brock->Rival2->SS Anne->Misty->Rock Tunnel->Erika->GC->Surge->Lavender->Fuchsia(fail)->Sliph trainers->Koga->Rival5+Gio->Blaine->Sabrina->Giovanni->Rival6->E4. But by taking advantage of the unorthodox order it will be at roughly the level of the Pokémon it faces and the Speed and Special will carry it through, the balance would often shift from having no chance to easy sweeps from one level to another. In this order no Gym aside from Pewter and Fuchsia was any trouble at all.

Lorelei is tedious, but unless you get stuck in a loop on Dewgong and waste all your Wrap PP or get compounding bad luck on Cloyster or Lapras the fight is easy but frustrating.

Agatha was apparently all about reaching a level where you outspeed her first 4. At that point I could just spam Surf. Agatha always has variance but I had an 80% win rate at the higher level.

Lance was easy if you aren’t tripping over yourself, you can probably let Gyarados get off two attacks and survive aside from a Leer->Hyper Beam.

Champion was easy, though I guess Pidgeot could potentially cause an issue while you set up which didn't happen in my case. After 3x Swords Dance the rest of the fight was a breeze despite a lot of misses.

Additional Comments: First of all, you have to be prepared to use Wrap. A lot. Most fights will be done in a blink of an eye with STAB Special moves, but some opponents you just have to grind down into range (before the E4 it only really applies to opponents with Psychic moves). If this sounds boring then stay away. But despite being reliant on Wrap I didn’t feel like you were relying too much on luck like Matt described for Bellsprout, missing a few was seldom a death sentence and if you had the speed advantage you can almost always power through several misses (most likely due to the lack of physical sweepers with STAB). E4 aside I didn’t feel there was a part where I had to constantly reset (or much at all) as the battles were almost exclusively one-sided in either direction, there were rarely cases where I felt that I could have won a battle with just a little better luck.

I’d say the thing that primarily holds Tentacool back is being in the Slow leveling group, I can’t really recall a battle with a Pokémon of a similar level being a problem aside from Surge who can be postponed. Wrap can easily deal with any non-ghost battle that can’t be a 1H/2HKO from Water or Ice, but you need to outspeed your opponent. In my casual run Tentacruel steamrolled the rest of the game as soon as it evolved being able to finish at lv53 (despite being a late acquisition in the regular game, I’d argue for Tentacruel at least being in the A-tier), but Tentacool stalls a bit compared to minimum battles at four different occasions; Brock, Cerulean, Koga/Sliph and E4. Fighting some/all trainers at the Cinnabar/Viridian Gyms and Victory Road would likely make the endgame a smooth experience though. It got a decent time, so the amount of extra Exp required wasn’t big but it did have some minor hiccups.

TMs/HMs: Tentacool is heavily reliant on them. Only one move in my final setup is learned naturally, but they are all easily acquired with very minor detours and IIRC none of them requires an extra battle.

Conclusion: I’d argue it’s in the A-tier based on the evaluation of Bellsprout. Despite the pre-Brock grind and some extra battles along the way it ended up with a very similar time to Bellsprout*, so I assume it made up time by sweeping through most of its battles quicker as Tentacool will 1HKO a lot of opponents even without setup. The run was very fun, it felt like it flowed well and never felt frustrating until the E4 where I really wanted to beat the Gastly time I felt was within reach, so I made more attempts than I should have before leveling up where the drawn out Lorelei battles took their toll on my patience.

*Though the use of save states allowing me to undo major missteps that I otherwise may have saved over will surely have cut a bit of time, though I didn't use them much (aside from the QoL of quicker resets) and the most significant instance was never actually utilized (I kept states before the Cinnabar/Viridian Gyms so I could roll back and fight the trainers if I felt the need).
 
Interesting! I have a Tentacool run finished up as well and it's roughly the same. I think I finished 64 but had a time of 4:36. I'd say there's no arguing about it being A-tier. Keep in mind the tier list OP put isn't from someone actually playing the games and they are generally just a rough idea. It'll be about 2 weeks before I get my video edited and do a write up but I got rid of Wrap fairly early in favor of Mega Drain. Wrap just takes so long to use and racks up in game time every time you use it, imo. Other than that, I used Ice Beam over Blizzard as every fight I needed Ice typing on, IBs base power was more than enough. Blizzard is great but sometimes 90% accuracy in Gen 1 feels like 30%.

I could do the run faster but I didn't want to repeat. Barrier is superior for my build in every way and I was kicking myself that I got rid of it for Swords Dance. Mainly on Lance's Gyarados because it crits A LOT and Hyper Beam ended lots of my runs back to Lorelei.

Overall, I agree and glad you posted. Much needed on this old thread. I'm in the process of finishing up a Sandshrew video now but Tentacool is under the radar A tier 100%.
 
I'm back after some weeks off the pre-evolved runs and this time I'm back with Sandshrew. I did Cubone several weeks ago and it was an abysmal slog, if I'm being nice. I wasn't expecting much going in but let's take a look at how it performs.

End result: Level 70 Sandshrew. 5:18 in-game time.
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Very pleased with this one. From previous experiences, a time of 5:18 blew me away considering what all it was weak to. I modeled the run after AJ's Sandshrew from the early episode in the first anime. Here's a video of the run if you are so inclined.


Stats: Sandshrew is average to below average in everything except two stats. Defense is 85, but that's not a great solo run stat. Sandshrew lives and dies by it's 75 attack stat and makes the most out of it with the moves that it has.

Typing: Ground. Being weak to Misty, Erika, Lorelei, and Lance's Gyarados mean you have to prepare for those moments or have an awful time.

Movepool: The movepool isn't large but it has some really great choices. Level up moves are pretty trash but sand attack for Brock and Slash for the early/mid game do help carry you for a short while. Where Sandshrew shines is it's TM pool. With attack being it's highest stat, it gets the compliment of some of the best moves out there. Body Slam and Dig carry the game for a long time and towards the later part of the game Rock Slide, Earthquake, along with Swords Dance ensure that you scale up enough to be a threat without having to be level 80+ to finish the game. The coverage is great and the damage was beyond impressive. I ended up using Seismic Toss at the end and it did have some uses, but not as much as I really thought it would. I did use it to deliver the final blow though.

Major Battles: Obviously, Brock isn't fun. If you think you are just going to sand attack it and scratch your way to victory, think again. Even at level 14 or so, you don't have enough PP. Even with max sand in Onix's eyes, Bide ignores accuracy checks and when you are using struggle, you'll quickly go down. I had to grind to 17 to get slash and then the fight was doable. This was the slowest part of the game but thankfully Sandshrew isn't in the slow leveling group so it wasn't too bad of a headache.

Misty is a problem. I had to do extra battles until I outsped the Staryu. Once you can get dig off first and consistently one shot that, the Starmie requires some luck. A heavy dig into a critical hit slash can do the job but you are really at the mercy of Starmie's high critical hit rate for this one. I was at level 27-28 before I hit the required breakpoints to make this one doable.

Erika isn't as bad as you'd think. Her key Pokemon are half poison so dig deals heavy neutral damage to them. If Victreebel misses or something happens like a critical hit on the dig, then it's a breeze. The main worry from this fight is that dreaded 100% critical hit chance razor leaf and nothing else is that bad.

The Elite 4 took some time to get the strategies down, mainly Lorelei. It wasn't a huge slog but level 64 is the level where you can comfortable tank an aurora beam from Dewgong. This allows you to turn one boost, tank the hit, then the swords danced Rock Slide is enough to one hit both the Dewgong and the Cloyster. Beware that it's a range and sometimes it can randomly just not faint them but that's rarely the case. Earthquake is enough to go on to one hit the rest of her Pokemon as well but to find the specific level and setup for this fight did take over a dozen tries.

The only other delta level threat for the rest of the Elite 4 is Lance's Gyarados. It'll always use hydro pump and loves to crit. It's a nightmare and you can really only hope that the game doesn't get lucky over and over because I'm not sure Sandshrew could survive that crit at level 90, much less 70.

Additional Comments: Sandshrew is a pretty shockingly efficient Pokemon and keeps getting better throughout the game. A quick glance might make you think that it's weak typing would make for a poor solo run but this was my biggest surprise in my runs so far. Brock is a slog but after that, Sandshrew slices through the game. Misty takes some additional leveling up, but isn't a monumental task and then the game just gets progressively easier until the Elite 4. Outside of Lorelei doing super effect damage to you from all angles, Sandshrew has a perfect moveset to deal with the Elite 4. I can't stress enough how shocking Sandshrew's late game damage was. One hitting a Blastoise that has withdraws on it is an impressive feat, folks.

Conclusion: This little mouse belongs in B-Tier, no doubt in my mind. With a fast time and only a few bumps in the road, there's really not a long list of Pokemon that can beat it's time. This is a classic case of a Pokemon being skimmed over and wrote off without someone actually testing to see how good it is.
 
Interesting! I have a Tentacool run finished up as well and it's roughly the same. I think I finished 64 but had a time of 4:36. I'd say there's no arguing about it being A-tier. Keep in mind the tier list OP put isn't from someone actually playing the games and they are generally just a rough idea. It'll be about 2 weeks before I get my video edited and do a write up but I got rid of Wrap fairly early in favor of Mega Drain. Wrap just takes so long to use and racks up in game time every time you use it, imo. Other than that, I used Ice Beam over Blizzard as every fight I needed Ice typing on, IBs base power was more than enough. Blizzard is great but sometimes 90% accuracy in Gen 1 feels like 30%.

I could do the run faster but I didn't want to repeat. Barrier is superior for my build in every way and I was kicking myself that I got rid of it for Swords Dance. Mainly on Lance's Gyarados because it crits A LOT and Hyper Beam ended lots of my runs back to Lorelei.

Overall, I agree and glad you posted. Much needed on this old thread. I'm in the process of finishing up a Sandshrew video now but Tentacool is under the radar A tier 100%.
Interesting and impressive! Especially considering the time you got which is virtually the same as the Gastly time even though you fought more battles. Which extra battles did you do to get to lv64 without sacrificing too much time?

Since I had a save just before the E4 where I still was low level and had Barrier, I decided to test out the Barrier+Mega Drain strategy entering the E4 at lv48 with 5 RC to spare also replacing Ice Beam with Hydro Pump for the first fights. I still never got past Agatha at that level and I found Lorelei even more frustrating than with Wrap. Mega Drain is only 12% more powerful than Surf and less so than Hydro Pump (effective 80 BP, 71.25 and 90 against Water) and I ran out of offensive PP at Lapras several times (which also can 1HKO you with a critical Body Slam), due to how frustrating the Slowbro is with only Special attacking moves and Lorelei's potions. Sometimes you got lucky with a quicker battle, but the median time felt longer (esp. if you took the risk and skipped Wrap on Cloyster).

Decided to try to get more badge boosts and replaced Barrier with Double Team, so I could set up a 6x badge boost rather than 3x. Now the first three were a breeze unless you got really unlucky on Gengar's first move on Agatha. Lance's and Champion's Gyarados were still massive problems though, especially Lance's since you can't set up beforehand. But eventually I made it through and won it with a lv57 Tentacool and a time of 4:28. Probably had a ~50% win rate against Lance and beat Champion on my 3rd or 4th attempt (can't remember if I lost to his Gyarados once or twice, lost to a critical Sky Attack against Pidgeot once while setting up). I know Double Team is a bit frowned upon, but in this case it massively sped up Lorelei and made her much more consistent with the one and only loss coming to a critical Body Slam from Lapras, it took Agatha from virtually impossible to an almost certainty and after I decided to replace Mega Drain rather than Hydro Pump for Blizzard on my final run, getting past the Gyarados felt much less like a lottery as I could bring them down in fewer moves. It wasn't about making sure every single attack missed, but to tweak the percentages in the right direction while boosting my attacks.

Perhaps you could knock even more off of that time by not using Wrap all the way up to Indigo Plateau, though I'm not sure if it is feasible to get through at that low a level without it.

Honestly I think at this point Tentacool has a good argument for S-tier despite the pre-Brock grind. We now have two separate times very much in the ballpark of Gastly's 4:35 and it is possible to beat the game at a significantly lower level.
 
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Interesting and impressive! Especially considering the time you got which is virtually the same as the Gastly time even though you fought more battles. Which extra battles did you do to get to lv64 without sacrificing too much time?
I'd have to look back but I believe early, I went for hikers and what not after Brock going towards Celadon and did things like battle the Gentleman on the SS Anne for the Rare Candy. Later on, I fought trainers in Blaine's gym because it really only 'wastes' a few minutes but being in the slow leveling group is such a chore. I may have also stuck my head in while passing through Victory Road to battle the Chansey trainer since it gives so much exp. Tbh, minimum battles is just weird badge of honor. I've been messing around with evolved speed runs for things like Machamp, Alakazam, etc. and quickly dipping in for the extra rare candy or battling the Hiker near Bill for the extra elixir actually save time. The thing that cuts down on time, imo, isn't skipping every optional fight, it's how long you can stay out without healing and if you can finish the entire game by only visiting a Pokecenter like 6-7 times, then you'll save much more time and getting things like the elixir helps you do that but that's just my results from doing a lot of tests. As you can see, it looks like a lot of people don't really do these runs a whole lot.

Agreed with most of what you said. Gyarados did feel like a lottery but barrier would have definitely helped reduce the luck. It's definitely a good Pokemon. It has the speed and the special stat and at least decent moves. As for S tier, I don't think so. I'm guessing you haven't tried a Gastly run. I did it in 3 hours 17 minutes I believe and what makes it even more impressive if you don't even need to reset that much. It's a little ridiculous and until you do your own Gastly run, it's hard to explain how overpowered it is in both in game time, level, and real life time. It's on another level.
 
I'd have to look back but I believe early, I went for hikers and what not after Brock going towards Celadon and did things like battle the Gentleman on the SS Anne for the Rare Candy. Later on, I fought trainers in Blaine's gym because it really only 'wastes' a few minutes but being in the slow leveling group is such a chore. I may have also stuck my head in while passing through Victory Road to battle the Chansey trainer since it gives so much exp. Tbh, minimum battles is just weird badge of honor. I've been messing around with evolved speed runs for things like Machamp, Alakazam, etc. and quickly dipping in for the extra rare candy or battling the Hiker near Bill for the extra elixir actually save time. The thing that cuts down on time, imo, isn't skipping every optional fight, it's how long you can stay out without healing and if you can finish the entire game by only visiting a Pokecenter like 6-7 times, then you'll save much more time and getting things like the elixir helps you do that but that's just my results from doing a lot of tests. As you can see, it looks like a lot of people don't really do these runs a whole lot.

Agreed with most of what you said. Gyarados did feel like a lottery but barrier would have definitely helped reduce the luck. It's definitely a good Pokemon. It has the speed and the special stat and at least decent moves. As for S tier, I don't think so. I'm guessing you haven't tried a Gastly run. I did it in 3 hours 17 minutes I believe and what makes it even more impressive if you don't even need to reset that much. It's a little ridiculous and until you do your own Gastly run, it's hard to explain how overpowered it is in both in game time, level, and real life time. It's on another level.
That certainly makes a bulletproof case of not being in the S-tier.

I definitely see where you're coming from and the time does reflect the ease of use (fewer required heals, fewer required battles etc.), though I do think final level reflects the ultimate strength of the Pokémon so minimum battles comes into play there from an exp standpoint. Of course then the level up group will affect your ultimate level. For the purposes of tiering I think the time/ease of use should come first (or perhaps even being the sole evaluation metric), but I have to say in terms of a challenge I'd personally find it more satisfying to try bringing down the final level rather than aiming for a quicker time.
 
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That certainly makes a bulletproof case of not being in the S-tier.

I definitely see where you're coming from and the time does reflect the ease of use (fewer required heals, fewer required battles etc.), though I do think final level reflects the ultimate strength of the Pokémon so minimum battles comes into play there from an exp standpoint. Of course then the level up group will affect your ultimate level. For the purposes of tiering I think the time/ease of use should come first (or perhaps even being the sole evaluation metric), but I have to say in terms of a challenge I'd personally find it more satisfying to try bringing down the final level rather than aiming for a quicker time.
Agreed but, like you said, the leveling group really determines that final level more than anything. For example, Alakazam and Gengar would naturally be a higher level just because they take much less experience than the slow groups like Tentacool is in. That's just another layer that makes these runs unique. Everyone can make their own tiers and use their own parameters to judge a Pokemon's place on a tier list. Levels 57-63~ are fine for me to not knock off any points as that's the typical level for Pokemon that do minimum or very close to minimum battles depending on the group. The only factor I don't put a lot of weight on is out of game time and, although I don't ignore it entirely, I just think it's an indication of my mistakes and general human error of not knowing the correct approach rather than a knock against a specific Pokemon.

I guess at the end of the day, for me, I take into account several things but I guess it'd go something like:
1. In-game time. That's my favorite metric and barring some huge discrepancy in the other categories, usually ranks a Pokemon highest.
2. Final level. I do take it into account fairly high but it's more important for determining middle of the pack and lower end Pokemon, imo.
3. Minimum Battles. I personally think JRose has made this more of a buzzword and I've given my thoughts on how it doesn't equate to the fastest
in-game time, but I can't deny that in Pre-evolved runs, it's a good metric for how easy the game is for a Pokemon. For evolved runs, minimum
is rated much lower but that's not what the thread is for.
4. How many key areas a Pokemon struggles in. For example, if a Pokemon has to heavily grind to beat Brock, struggles at 2 of the last 7 gyms, and
has problems with 2 or so Elite 4 members, then that subtracts if I'm splitting hairs on a C tier Pokemon comparisons that are otherwise close.
5. Real life time. Again, not my favorite metric. Bellsprout is my current documented leader in my videos but it's real life time isn't great because it's
such a luck reliant Pokemon and many resets had to be made, even at the very first Bug Catcher even.
 
This week's Pokemon I did was Krabby. There's a huge misconception inside this thread, which is weird for the poster that actually did the Krabby run. OP and that person both said Krabby learned Mega Punch and OP even bumped it up a full tier because of that. It can't learn this move and there wasn't any fact checking for it.

With that said, Krabby is still B tier as we'll get to but not because it can learn Mega Punch. Swords Dance is also pretty trash on it and it's a mistake. Harden is the way to go. Those are my initial thoughts because a lot of the analysis on the thread is pretty good but the Krabby part was particularly wrong. Let's dive in.

End result: Level 68, 4 hours and 46 minutes of in game time, which is fairly fast and doesn't indicate how volatile this run actually was. There's lots of dancing around and avoiding the gyms that give you problems and when you make it to the Elite 4, things have to go your way in some fights for sure.


Stats: Krabby is pretty pathetic outside of it's attack and defense. It has a huge red flag with 25 special and frail HP stat. This means even resisted or neutral special attacks will send Krabby into pieces. The 25 special means that even if you have a coverage move like Blizzard, for example, that it wouldn't even KO an opponent that's weak to it. Like they say, when life gives you lemons and all that so making the most of Krabby's attack is about all you can do.

Typing: Water is a good typing that can potentially struggle on 2 of the first 4 gyms. With Krabby's previously mentioned special stat, this means you have to put off the grass and electric gym for a long time. Outside of those humps, I feel like water is the second best typing in the game and has a decent time just in terms of pure type matchups in a lot of the later game.

Movepool: It's serviceable. With such a meaty attack stat, rushing to get vice grip by Cerulean helps out a ton. After that, Body Slam will become the bread and butter and essentially the only thing taking advantage of that.

Krabby's big claim to fame and what makes it unique is Crabhammer. One of those x8 critical hit multiplier moves. It's STAB and, although it's a special move, it has roughly 250+ base power about 4/5s of the time. This move crushes it and was a blast to use. If Krabby didn't get this, we'd be looking at a full tier lower, if not worse.

Krabby has access to swords dance but I feel like it's a trap. With the way badge boosting works, harden is much superior with it's 6 uses as compared to 3. The extra attack from swords dance is going to...bost body slam and that's not viable the whole game. With Krabby's reliance on the nutty Crabhammer, crits won't take into account the stat changes either way. Blizzard makes it's way on the list just for some late game coverage.

Major Battles: I'm not going to bog this section down with a ton of writing. All I can say is that if your opponents have special attacks, the 25 special means you will take heavy damage if you can't quickly get rid of an opponent. Even innocent battles where it looks like you'd have the advantage can get turned on their heads and leave you scratching your head as you remember just how frail Krabby is.

Erika and Lt. Surge are obviously huge hurdles in the badge run section of the game. Surge can be swiftly defeated with Body Slam and some levels, but you'll need to save Erika until the end or at least until you are sure you can outspeed and one shot Victreebel. It's a rough fight, if not impossible, if you don't do those two things.

Sabrina is also a problem. Body Slam does work but that pathetic special stat means even weak moves like psywave on a low roll can absolutely rock you. If you take a psychic even from the first Kadabra then you are probably looking at a reset. It's an example of a fight Krabby isn't weak to but struggles with.

As far as the Elite 4 goes, it's honestly not that awful. The worrying part is Agatha. All you have to utilize is Crabhammer which is a range that potentially takes 3 hits, and that's assuming you hit the 80% crit all of the times. This requires you to get some bad AI move choices. Mimic might make this fight more consistent. Maybe you take hypnosis and roll the dice or use Night Shade for consistent damage, although it's not much better than Crabhammer. I opted to not and this fight wasn't the best. This one definitely took lots of resets to get past.

Additional Comments: I know it feels like I've mentioned the red flags, frailty, and how the movepool don't work with your stats, but the fact is that Krabby had a wonderful in game time. My Bellsprout run with minimum battles was 4:42 and this one is just 4 minutes off of that. This is mainly due to how volatile Krabby is. It's hit or miss in some fights but when it goes your way, this little crab crushes it. Crabhammer crits and body slams with a good attack stat really make short work of the smaller things in the game and have few hurdles.

I didn't have much expectations for this little guy and I was pleasantly surprised. I can't help but imagine how dominating it could be if Crabhammer was a physical move in Generation 1 though. That would be insane.

Conclusion: Krabby is a solid B tier. It struggles on some early gyms and the start of the game when it only has Bubble, but once you get going, it's really reliable outside of a few key fights. There are some struggles, but what Pokemon doesn't have them? The fact of the matter is that you can't argue with results and sub 5 hours is a respectable time in these runs that can't be ignored.
 
I'll be reviving this thread as I'm currently doing a challenge of beating the game with almost every mon in a solo run (Except Caterpie/Metapod & Magikarp, the amount of luck required to have a full game run with those 3 makes it nearly impossible.) This may be subject to change as I do more runs but I believe Bulbasaur to be A-Tier, but more or so the bottom of A-Tier. I did this on my laptop so I don't have any recordings but I'll definitely want to make an analysis for every mon, with that aside, let me explain everything.

Before Notes: These runs will be done on the ROM Hack called Regulation Red. It lets me input a code at the start of a new game to setup the in game rules for the run. For this run, I could only have Bulbasaur in my party, cannot evolve or catch any other mon, could not use items in battle, and HM slaves were unnecessary as I could use the HM directly from the backpack.

End Result: Lvl 76, IGT is not accurate as I played on speed up the majority of the time, but I'd estimate around 5:30, I do not have an in game screenshot so I'll post the unlock from the website RetroAchievements. A website that directly tracks your progress in ROMs and awards achievements based on what you have accomplished, similar to Gamerscore/Trophies on the Xbox/PS.

Screen Shot 2023-01-18 at 5.38.04 PM.png


Stats: Extremely average. nothing across the board really stands out besides its base 65 Special, which really only allows it to be decent at tanking special attacks, as Bulbasaur's movepool doesn't really allow it to take advantage of its best stat. However, 3 out of its 4 weaknesses are special types, with Flying being the only physical type, and the Flying type realistically isn't too much of a threat throughout the game so having that higher Special stat allows it to do its job.

Movepool: Will cut to the chase on this first part, here is the moveset that I used, fully completed before Sabrina:

- Razor Leaf
- Body Slam
- Sleep Powder
- Swords Dance

Like I previously mentioned, Bulbasaur lacks good options to utilize its best stat, with your best Grass STAB being Razor Leaf (SolarBeam has potential but on unevolved mons it feels like too much of a risk). As a result, we have to rely on the physical side to do damage to mons who are neutral or resistant to Grass. Thankfully, despite having a somewhat lacking movepool, Bulbasaur has access to moves that allow it to make this concern pointless, as being able to use both Sleep Powder and Swords Dance allows Bulbasaur to easily work as a setup sweeper.

The movepool may be lacking, however, I feel that this shouldn't take anything away from having a lower ranking on the list. Bulbasaur in the first half of the game is fantastic. Being Super Effective or having resistances to the first 5 gyms in the game allows it to continue with ease until Saffron, where by the time you do the Sabrina fight you will have the complete moveset, and almost the rest of the game is a simple sweep.

Major Battles: Until you get the Swords Dance TM from the Silph Building, Bulbasaur can easily hold his ground for a while. Vine Whip OHKOs Brock, 2HKOs Misty's Starmie, and barely gets touched by Surge, Erika, and Koga, which both are pretty easy to handle with Body Slam from S.S. Anne. Once you have Swords Dance, most of the major battles become quite simple. Sleep Powder first, get 3 Swords Dances in, and then sweep with Body Slam or Razor Leaf if they are weak to it. This works throughout the rest of the game, with only slight issues which I will now get to.

Lorelei: Took me a few tries, as her Jynx outspeeds you and I was insanely unlucky with her crits. Also took a couple tries as I learned after my 3rd death that even with crit Razor Leaf was not an OHKO.

Agatha: The biggest threat in this entire run. The extra levels from this run came from me giving 5 rare candies to Bulb for this fight. Her Gengar outspeeds and you need to still setup in order to OHKO her Golbat and Arbok. This is fine, but dealing with Gengar and Haunter can be very annoying. You have to sleep all of them and multiple times as Body Slam cannot hit, leaving your only attacking move being unboosted Razor Leaf, which they resist due to their Poison typing. I got through after like 5 or 6 attempts, but man can this be a struggle.

Additional Comments: Bulbasaur's performance exceeded my expectations greatly. With the early game ease and finishing up the sweeper moveset before the major fights were going to be difficult, I was highly satisfied with how Bulbasaur was throughout the entirety of the game. A solid mon to use and after I finish solo runs with Ivy/Venu I will do another writeup for Squirtle.

Conclusion: Bulbasaur is A-Tier, but Agatha alone places the funny looking guy on the lower end of A. A lot of things have to go correct in order for that fight to be a success. Besides that, there's not really a point where Bulbasaur has a genuine weak point. I treated this run as any other run, which resulted in me not optimizing my time or caring to do so. But I believe the plant dude could easily get better results and respectable times.
 
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