Resource RBY & Tradebacks Bug Report Thread

counter mechanics still dont seem to be "fixed" with sleeping pokémon, im not sure if the issue is still that showdown is recognizing moves selected while asleep when it shouldnt, or if it is something else.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1pu-1834888281 turn 35, slept charmeleon should not be able to select a move or otherwise prevent counter from succeeding since pastrey 's last selected move was ivysaur's body slam. so there "shouldnt" be a desync clause activation according to the counter mechanics that were voted on in 2020 (pastrey just tagging you for ur information / in case u wanted to see this)
 

phoopes

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A bunch of stuff has been fixed! Here's a list:

- Semi-invul
- Thrashing about / Rage accuracy
- Thrashing about confusion message
- Haze
- Rage VS Disable
- Stat modification/overflow, the mewtwo thing
- Counter
- Sonic Boom vs Ghosts (it works)
- Metronome with Counter
- Bide move selection
- Moves can deal 0 damage
- OHKO moves work with actual speed rather than cached
- Recharge messages
- Wrap vs Substitute
- Multi-hit probabilities
- Twineedle Poison

Here are the commits:
https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/commits/master/data/mods/gen1
 
Exeggutor should be able to learn Sleep Powder and Stomp on the same set. Theoretically it should be illegal cause Exeggcute learns Sleep Powder at lvl 48 while Exeggutor learns Stomp at lvl 28. However, Stadium 2 has a move relearner, so you could level Exeggcute up to lvl 48 to learn Sleep Powder, evolve it, trade it to Stadium 2, use the the move relearner to relearn Stomp, then trade it back to RBY.

This issue only exists for Tradebacks OU, without trading to gen 2, you can't access the move relearner and thus, it's illegal w/o tradebacks

Edit: This problem also exists for Kakuna and Beedrill having Poison Sting + Harden on the same set. Interestingly enough, it doesn't exist for Starmie having Hydro Pump + Confuse Ray
 
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Unowndragon

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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ubers-1903087811-p3rlj3a4u30keonixrya31xii3tup1mpw
Turn 11

The opposing Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
The opposing Chansey had its HP restored.

Snorlax used Hyper Beam!
(The opposing Chansey lost 77% of its health!)

Turn 12

The opposing Chansey used Sing!
Snorlax fell asleep!
(In Gen 1, if a Pokémon that has just used Hyper Beam and has yet to recharge is targeted with a sleep inducing move, any other status it may already have will be ignored and sleep will be induced regardless.)
Snorlax woke up!

Turn 13
☆Llinos: I am 99.9% sure that sequence can't happen
☆Unowndragon: lool

The opposing Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
The opposing Chansey had its HP restored.

Snorlax used Body Slam!
(The opposing Chansey lost 41% of its health!)

Turn 14
☆Llinos: I wait what the
☆Llinos: what the hell just happened there

The opposing Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
The opposing Chansey had its HP restored.

Snorlax used Body Slam!
(The opposing Chansey lost 45% of its health!)

this is a bug

There are two qualms:
I don't believe sleep and recharging can occur on the same turn
Therefore, Snorlax most likely could not attack on Turn 13.
 

Merritt

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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ubers-1903087811-p3rlj3a4u30keonixrya31xii3tup1mpw
Turn 11

The opposing Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
The opposing Chansey had its HP restored.

Snorlax used Hyper Beam!
(The opposing Chansey lost 77% of its health!)

Turn 12

The opposing Chansey used Sing!
Snorlax fell asleep!
(In Gen 1, if a Pokémon that has just used Hyper Beam and has yet to recharge is targeted with a sleep inducing move, any other status it may already have will be ignored and sleep will be induced regardless.)
Snorlax woke up!

Turn 13
☆Llinos: I am 99.9% sure that sequence can't happen
☆Unowndragon: lool

The opposing Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
The opposing Chansey had its HP restored.

Snorlax used Body Slam!
(The opposing Chansey lost 41% of its health!)

Turn 14
☆Llinos: I wait what the
☆Llinos: what the hell just happened there

The opposing Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
The opposing Chansey had its HP restored.

Snorlax used Body Slam!
(The opposing Chansey lost 45% of its health!)

this is a bug

There are two qualms:
I don't believe sleep and recharging can occur on the same turn
Therefore, Snorlax most likely could not attack on Turn 13.
They can. This was happily featured in one of Crystal_'s other demonstrations of how you can overwrite other status with sleep. Cart footage with timestamp below.
 
The way Partial Trapping moves interact with Hyper Beam is wrong on the sim.
On the sim, when a Pokèmon recharging from Hyper Beam has either Clamp, Fire Spin, Wrap, or Bind used on it, it cant recharge due to the PT move blocking any and all movement, which means the recharging Pokèmon cannot attack or even switch out unless the Pokèmon choking it with PT misses its attack, meaning unless they miss, the Pokèmon recharging can just be choked to death while they cant do anything back.
When a Pokèmon recharging from Hyper Beam has a PT move used on it ingame, it recharges regardless of any PT move being used on it or not, meaning it can either switch out to a faster Pokèmon to deal with the PT user, or fish for a miss and attack immediatly upon the PT user missing.
Video proof of Wrap interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Video proof of Clamp interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Video proof of Fire Spin interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
 
The way Partial Trapping moves interact with Hyper Beam is wrong on the sim.
On the sim, when a Pokèmon recharging from Hyper Beam has either Clamp, Fire Spin, Wrap, or Bind used on it, it cant recharge due to the PT move blocking any and all movement, which means the recharging Pokèmon cannot attack or even switch out unless the Pokèmon choking it with PT misses its attack, meaning unless they miss, the Pokèmon recharging can just be choked to death while they cant do anything back.
When a Pokèmon recharging from Hyper Beam has a PT move used on it ingame, it recharges regardless of any PT move being used on it or not, meaning it can either switch out to a faster Pokèmon to deal with the PT user, or fish for a miss and attack immediatly upon the PT user missing.
Video proof of Wrap interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Video proof of Clamp interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Video proof of Fire Spin interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
(re the last point specifically, if a partial trapping move misses against a pokemon that is about to recharge from hyper beam, hyper beam is automatically used again on what would have been the recharge turn; 1pp is deducted from it and if hyper beam had 0 pp left, it underflows to 63 pp. the mechanic is shown in this video:
)
 
The way Partial Trapping moves interact with Hyper Beam is wrong on the sim.
On the sim, when a Pokèmon recharging from Hyper Beam has either Clamp, Fire Spin, Wrap, or Bind used on it, it cant recharge due to the PT move blocking any and all movement, which means the recharging Pokèmon cannot attack or even switch out unless the Pokèmon choking it with PT misses its attack, meaning unless they miss, the Pokèmon recharging can just be choked to death while they cant do anything back.
When a Pokèmon recharging from Hyper Beam has a PT move used on it ingame, it recharges regardless of any PT move being used on it or not, meaning it can either switch out to a faster Pokèmon to deal with the PT user, or fish for a miss and attack immediatly upon the PT user missing.
Video proof of Wrap interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Video proof of Clamp interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Video proof of Fire Spin interacting wrong on the sim compared to ingame
Ingame | Simulator
Quickly confirming that NotVeryCake is correct in both cart-accurate mechanics and showdown's inaccuracy. Tested on two carts tonight (one red, one blue, yellow is fake), and partial trapping overrides/skips hyper beam recharge (or it happens in the background). So the beam user is allowed to switch, after clamp/firespin/wrap lands (tested all three, assuming bind is the same).

Also juoean is correct as well, saw that happen without planning...clamp misses a lot..
 
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The last move the opponent clicked was not a Normal/Fighting type move, therefore it failed
This is not correct, the snorlax’s last selected move was almost certainly reflect, earthquake, or ice beam, all of which would stop counter
That's not how counter works - whatever the last damage is can be 'countered', so counter should work when snorlax switches out.

Even if it was a counterable move, a desync would occur due to Party B0y's side never seeing the move come out
You can counter damage from your own moves.
 

Sabelette

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That's not how counter works - whatever the last damage is can be 'countered', so counter should work when snorlax switches out.



You can counter damage from your own moves.
You don’t understand counter correctly, the last move used by the opponent also has to be counterable, you can’t just counter your own move in whatever circumstance
 
You don’t understand counter correctly, the last move used by the opponent also has to be counterable, you can’t just counter your own move in whatever circumstance

The last damage is countered yes, but only if your OPPONENT'S last move was a counterable move. It doesn't matter which side did the damage, but your opponent must have last used a counterable move.

My opponent doesn't need to use a counterable move for it to work, because they switched out.
 

Amaranth

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Leave it to Party B0y to confidently speak on matters he doesn't understand


Counter works by tracking two values in memory:
1) Is the last move the opponent used counterable (if yes, Counter works, if no, Counter fails)
2) What is the last damage that has been dealt (from either player), take it and deal it x2

Switching doesn't reset either of these values, which is why Counter works through switches sometimes; and Explosion, in the scenario you linked, set the second one to, approximately, "a lot of damage"; but the first one still needs to be set to "yes" for Counter to do anything at all, and here it was not

There's a lot of complexities around desyncs and things - but getting into that is just going to confuse you further given that you are still struggling with the basics

Hope this helps
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1customgame-242074284
Transform should copy the current Speed of the opponent's Pokémon (Transform was used on turn 4 on a Paralysed Mew, then the Transformed Mew managed to win a Speed tie with a non-paralysed Mew on turn 8 )
Transform should not copy the Critical Hit Ratio from the opponent's Pokémon, it should keep its own Critical Hit Ratio (Turn 48, Transformed Mew deals a Critical Hit with randBW(256) = 61 against Mewtwo, but Mew has a Critical Hit Ratio of 50/256)
Is the bolded exclusive to link battles? I did a solo ditto run and found that ditto was using the new transformed critical hit ratio. For example, ditto was able to crit as sandslash using slash 50/50 times. Then I tested mew vs. machop, and mew crit with karate chop 4/15 times.

As an example against Agatha, ditto would use Gengar's critical hit ratio, then if the move was a critical hit, use dittos stats.
 

Amaranth

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This is absolutely not the way to go. We should not pick and choose how gen 2 affects then gen 1 meta. We should either allow it all or allow nothing. Is this up for implementation if someone were to make a nice way to implement it?
it was a classic "nobody actually wants the metagame to change whatsoever, so let's pretend that the game doesn't work the way it actually works and come up with the best policy justification possible" type of decision

same deal as sleep clause, counter patch etc. unfortunately this is how people seem to think we should play
 
it was a classic "nobody actually wants the metagame to change whatsoever, so let's pretend that the game doesn't work the way it actually works and come up with the best policy justification possible" type of decision

same deal as sleep clause, counter patch etc. unfortunately this is how people seem to think we should play
Counter should be banned in Gen I formats, except for Pokémon Stadium 1. If I were to play Gen I with real cartridges or to host a tournament with real cartridges, I wouldn't allow a move that has a high probability of causing a desinch in battles.

Regarding IVs, I wouldn't mind playing with real IVs combinations, e.g. you either have to choose between a Tauros that has 13 Hit Points and 14 Speed, or a Special of 7.
 
Counter should be banned in Gen I formats, except for Pokémon Stadium 1. If I were to play Gen I with real cartridges or to host a tournament with real cartridges, I wouldn't allow a move that has a high probability of causing a desinch in battles.

Regarding IVs, I wouldn't mind playing with real IVs combinations, e.g. you either have to choose between a Tauros that has 13 Hit Points and 14 Speed, or a Special of 7.
Personally I've adjusted my ideal rby ruleset to allow for Counter. This is done by simply DQing players that trigger a desync via a known mechanism, which unfortunately is (afaik) far less compatible with how PS works than a Counter ban lol.

Either way, I fully support improving cart accuracy whether that's a Counter ban or DQs

Amaranth hit the nail on the head with their description of the existing "solution"
 
Doesn't DQing players who get slightly unlucky with fps sound a bit harsh? The idea of throwing out DQs willy nilly doesn't sound right to me idk
Yeah potentially. My rationale is that you can either ban Counter entirely, or you can allow it so long as players are aware of the risk of using Counter against paralysed Pokemon. There's still no issue with using Counter against unparalysed Pokemon as well

When I put it like that, it does seem like communicating that would be an issue so maybe it's not a perfect solution. I think from a rules perspective it's generally a very neat solution that also provides a framework for if other desync mechanics are found. Maybe there are other measures you can take to mitigate? Even just a warning label on certain moves?
 

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