OU RBY OU Viability Rankings

[pac]

RBY UU entered its VR spree season again, and whenever that happens I always end up making VRs for the other tiers too since I get all up in the mindset. Here's my OU one!

D- rank

My main takes:

• Haven't quite hopped on the Zam > Eggy train yet
• I think Lapras is still a pretty solid OU mon.
• I don't rate Zapdos as highly as some
• Moltres > Articuno
• Below like C- I don't think much stuff matters, and after D+ I don't think these Pokemon are really worth using in tournament so I left them spoilered.

Take Explanations

Zam v Egg: I think that Alakazam is a bit one-dimensional while Exeggutor has a plethora of options and allows so many teams (Big 4 teams) to function. Has a lot more defensive utility. At the same time, Alakazam is popping up on a lot of really good teams rn like MieZam and ZamCloy and is clearly on a high rn, so my opinion may change in the future.

Zapdos: I feel like its MU inconsistency compared to Cloy and Jynx can be profound at times. In a good game though it's clearly a #7 mon.

Lapras: It has the issue of fitting into teams at times, but to me its a very clear step above any Pokemon below it. Checks Cloyster really well, has some of the best potential role compression, and Ice immunity is more important than ever I feel due to the lead meta being the way it is. This gives Sing Lapras a real niche that may be undertapped, especially with Jynx being popular.

Molt > Articuno: It's a tough call but I think that Articuno's primary bad MUs are Cloyster and Starmie, and Moltres' primary bad MUs are Rhydon and Starmie. Thing is, Moltres doesn't really do that bad vs Rhydon since Rhydon despises burn so it can't switch in (if it takes a Crit or Burn on the way in its liable to just lose), and Molt has F Spin to bs bad MUs in a pinch unlike Articuno who just won't ever be breaking through Cloy or Lapras. However, Moltres is also just simply much more inconsistent than Articuno due to acc, so it could go either way.

 

[marcoasd]

Now that RBY invitational is done, I personally updated my VR, so I figured why not post here
View attachment 379332

Pretty much agree on everything, so I quote. Maybe I like Slowbro a little bit better but its downsides are well known and it's ok.
On the other hand, as someone who has always loved Snorlax even more than Tauros, I have to admit this is a time where Tauros clearly is the best pokemon in the tier: Reflect HB Snorlax has been the scariest moveset (also very helpful against CloyJolt teams) for the last year but it was addressed immediately (Rest Rhydon, Counter Chansey, Gengar). Snorlax can be stopped more easily than Tauros and it's the one that gets sometimes lucked. Well, they both do a lot of work and are mandatory so...

 

[marcoasd]

My main takes:

• Haven't quite hopped on the Zam > Eggy train yet
• I think Lapras is still a pretty solid OU mon.
• I don't rate Zapdos as highly as some
• Moltres > Articuno
• Below like C- I don't think much stuff matters, and after D+ I don't think these Pokemon are really worth using in tournament so I left them spoilered.

Zam hates to face SToss Chansey and Egg hates Ice Beam Chansey, Zam hates to face water Starmie (let's say Surf) and Egg hates Blizzard obviously. Right now Alakazam works very well as a backup for Chansey which is not only necessary when your Chansey gets frozen but also when your Sing Chansey is walled or your opponent's Chansey is para'd. All-time high for Alakazam, and this comes from a huge Egg fan.

Lapras is okaish but there are better options. I think it needs to use Sing and Rest.

We all feel that way about Zapdos' matchups. It just happens to be quite good when it's unchecked.

No, Articuno is clearly superior. And I love Moltres. Freezes are better than burns and thaws, also Moltres' accuracy sucks. Moltres never has the upper hand against Rhydon and Zapdos, Articuno OHKOs Rhydon and it beats Zapdos after Agility or thanks to paralysis on Zapdos.
Moltres is obviously better against Cloyster, sure. I don't think it's enough though.

Yes, D ranks don't matter much. Swords Dancers can make you look like a fool though, especially if you assume your opponent is not using them but they actually do.

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

Something i'd like to ask, and this isn't too important, but is there much of a reason Nidoqueen is a bit higher than Nidoking is? The speed difference doesn't matter it seems, but that 10 extra attack seems more worth it than the 10+ HP/Def, since they're both stuck with an awful type, so you might as well do as much as you can. Does the bulk matter in very many important calcs where the extra EQ damage doesn't make up for it?

 

[Amaranth]

Something i'd like to ask, and this isn't too important, but is there much of a reason Nidoqueen is a bit higher than Nidoking is? The speed difference doesn't matter it seems, but that 10 extra attack seems more worth it than the 10+ HP/Def, since they're both stuck with an awful type, so you might as well do as much as you can. Does the bulk matter in very many important calcs where the extra EQ damage doesn't make up for it?

Nidoking is higher than Nidoqueen in the current VRs - not sure where you got the opposite from. However, the VRs are highly inaccurate for the lower ranks - only a few people bother ranking after the top ~25 so the sample size is extremely small and one odd opinion is enough to completely tip the balance (as is the case here, with one ranker having Nidoking ranked fairly highly and Nidoqueen unranked entirely).

Realistically they are both pokemon with basically no niche to speak of, you could make the argument that any hope at viability that they hold is reliant on Earthquake damage output or you could make the argument that Nidoqueen's bulk makes it less hopeless against Tauros (which is very important) but you're splitting hairs between two very similar, rather unusable pokemon

 

[Enigami]

Something i'd like to ask, and this isn't too important, but is there much of a reason Nidoqueen is a bit higher than Nidoking is? The speed difference doesn't matter it seems, but that 10 extra attack seems more worth it than the 10+ HP/Def, since they're both stuck with an awful type, so you might as well do as much as you can. Does the bulk matter in very many important calcs where the extra EQ damage doesn't make up for it?

Nidoqueen's bulk does matter. Ground/Poison is an awful type, but ultimately, Rhydon's and Sandslash's Special stats are so terrible they don't really take Psychics much better than they do. The real problem is the Nidos' mediocre offenses, they just can't apply the kind of pressure their fellow Grounds can. The biggest upside they have is being faster than Cloyster while also hard countering Jolteon, making them slightly appealing when JoltCloy usage is very high.

When it comes to Nidoking vs. Nidoqueen, the +10 attack actually hardly affects #HKOs against majority of OU Pokemon. They also have the same Special stat in RBY, so offensively a lot of their damage output is the same against a good portion of the tier. However, a significant difference is their bulk. It's minor, but just enough that Nidoqueen has a high chance of surviving 2 rounds against standard Tauros, something that all other Grounds can't do without a lot of luck. That's quite a nice trait to have when you'll often have an unparalyzed Tauros terrorizing the late game. Nidoqueen's bulk also helps against Snorlax, avoiding a 2HKO from Earthquake while Nidoking is reliably 2HKO'd. Nidoking has a 74% chance to be 2HKO'd by Ice Beam Chansey, while Nidoqueen has only a 24% chance. And finally, Zapdos has a 67.5% chance to 4HKO Nidoqueen while Nidoking is reliably 4HKO'd, giving Nidoqueen a chance to take one more Drill Peck than she should. That's 3 S Ranks + Zapdos that Nidoqueen has a better matchup against than Nidoking.

But, as Amaranth brought up, both Nidos are borderline unviable anyway, so it's not too important. I firmly believe Nidoqueen > Nidoking in OU though.

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

Nidoqueen's bulk does matter. Ground/Poison is an awful type, but ultimately, Rhydon's and Sandslash's Special stats are so terrible they don't really take Psychics much better than they do. The real problem is the Nidos' mediocre offenses, they just can't apply the kind of pressure their fellow Grounds can. The biggest upside they have is being faster than Cloyster while also hard countering Jolteon, making them slightly appealing when JoltCloy usage is very high.

When it comes to Nidoking vs. Nidoqueen, the +10 attack actually hardly affects #HKOs against majority of OU Pokemon. They also have the same Special stat in RBY, so offensively a lot of their damage output is the same against a good portion of the tier. However, a significant difference is their bulk. It's minor, but just enough that Nidoqueen has a high chance of surviving 2 rounds against standard Tauros, something that all other Grounds can't do without a lot of luck. That's quite a nice trait to have when you'll often have an unparalyzed Tauros terrorizing the late game. Nidoqueen's bulk also helps against Snorlax, avoiding a 2HKO from Earthquake while Nidoking is reliably 2HKO'd. Nidoking has a 74% chance to be 2HKO'd by Ice Beam Chansey, while Nidoqueen has only a 24% chance. And finally, Zapdos has a 67.5% chance to 4HKO Nidoqueen while Nidoking is reliably 4HKO'd, giving Nidoqueen a chance to take one more Drill Peck than she should. That's 3 S Ranks + Zapdos that Nidoqueen has a better matchup against than Nidoking.

But, as Amaranth brought up, both Nidos are borderline unviable anyway, so it's not too important. I firmly believe Nidoqueen > Nidoking in OU though.

I looked at some calcs for both's Earthquakes, on earthquake relevant targets. The damage bonus is relatively minor, Nidoking always 2HKOs Alakazam while Nidoqueen has a 15% chance to 3HKO.
Nidoqueen has a guaranteed 2HKO on Gengar, while Nidoking OHKOs 15% of the time.
Nidoqueen's EQ is a guaranteed 4HKO. Nidoking's is a 15% 3HKO.

Ultimately Nidoqueen is probably better yeah

Sucks cause I like Nidoking way more

 

[phoopes]

The VR will be updated once a year, once Smogon Premier League ends, where everyone will be encouraged to post their new yearly personal VR.

Hello everyone while I'm not really an OU player myself I thought I'd bump this because SPL is over and it'd be really cool if people dropped their VRs! There's an update in the works so look out for that soon as well. Happy VR season!

 

[Heroic Troller]

The only thing i wish to talk about for now is this guy

Moltres is underrated and deserves way better, his fame of "pray to hit multiple Fire Spins to win games" is pretty undeserved. For starters it is not the worst bird of the trio, Articuno is by some wide margin but we will get into that.

Upsides:

-Unlike Zapdos a walled Moltres doesn't let Rhydon, a very ferocious and dangerous enemy in, but Starmie Chansey or Alakazam, all of which aren't nearly as threating if your team isn't already in bad shape to begin with.

-His counters are all very well beatable by Moltres itself and without the need to resort to Fire Spin which should be always considered an emergency button not the standard move. If you play well enough landing a par on Starmie and Chansey shouldn't be too hard and once there Moltres is already extremely dangerous. We can't say the same for Articuno which doesn't break nearly as well with the way weaker attack stat, not to mention the Cloyster match up.

I have seen some really bad arguments over the years, "you can thaw things, ew" "you have to hit 10 Fire Spins in a row, ew" "if you burn a special mon you lose ew" and to those i say, play better games. Moltres is by no means an easy pick up and it needs setup and patience to work. but it doesn't make it bad or even unusable as some say, it just punishes the clickers who Fire Blast without thinking.

Moltres should be B rank alongside Slowbro.

For those unaware i brought Moltres in SPL's semis tiebreaker, a bo3 with max stakes which is testament that i believe every word i have said
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-614692

 

[Hayburner]

 

[Excal]

borp bop beep boop borp

 

[Genesis7]

 

[Ortheore]

 

[Unowndragon]

Hello,everyone.This is my first time to explain RBY OU VR,Here is my RBY OU VR
S Rank：The strongest pokemon in RBY OU,it is the most indispensable to form a team

I prefer Tarous>Snorlax>Chansey，But these three are necessary in my openion,nowadays,Tarous can use on Early game,and end of the game,Tarous vs Tarous always happen.Chansey is the most important support pokemon on RBY OU,Snorlax is the most important offense pokemon on early/middle RBY OU games，It is also the core of deciding the winner of the middle game on RBY

A+:As strong as s rank Pokemon, Pokemon is indispensable to most teams
I still gave the Exeggutor a vote，although its performance has been impacted in recent years,but we must remember：Egg can help me to against Physical attacker,and good sleep powder,It is changeable and can often be performed well wallbreaker.
Starmie is one of the best first pokemon of the game，except of that,We can use starmie in various situations and it is more stable.

A:The Pokemon which has a considerable proportion in the overall RBY OU metagame, is also carried by most teams
I give alakazam，A great zam can let u win on last game！

B+：Each has its own value and can play its own strength in different teams
I think this 4 have no problem.
Jynx is a great sleeper and against counter+ice beam Chansey.
Rhydon and Zapdos are very good attacker,especially Rhydon，With excellent support, it has the ability to defeat any Pokemon RBY OU.
The same to Cloyster,but Cloyster isn't only attacker,it can against Snorlax and Tarous,because of his 180 Base Defense，and Clamping is a very excellent move.

B：Slightly unstable, but in a unique position, it is worth using
I give Gengar and Jolteon.
Jolteon is a soild attacker,but Double Kick and Pin Missie's pow is low,it's need crit,although Jolteon's crit is worth looking forward to.
Gengar is a special pokemon in RBY，It is unique-against Explosion and wrap，if snorlax has no Earthquake,Gengar can beat Snorlax，but Gengar weak Psychic and Base 110 speed is the same as Tarous

B-：The Pokemon with unique positioning but worse stability, is more prone to accidents
Slowbro is a great Physical Wall and Amnesia user,but it can only use one attack in most instance.And crit can destory Slowbro，Pay more attention when players bulid slowbro team.

C+：These Pokemon can be used, but they need considerable understanding to use them
Lapras need defeat Chansey than to sweep the last game.
Persian afraid Gengar team，and on RBY OU team,Persian is the third Normal attacker,But he can't take more attack on other pokemon.
Victreebel is a great wrap/sleep powder pokemon，but it's speed is the same as Cloyster and it can't take more attack on other pokemon，it's Low fault tolerance.
Articuno should use on hyper offense team.
Dnit has a notorious combination-Agi+wrap,but in RBY OU,There are too many ice attacks.
I think golem is a very underestimated Pokemon，Many players think it's more like bad Rhydon,although Golem only has 110 Base attack，it can't 2 ko Chansey，but we may pay attention on Explosion-Golem and Rhydon，Golem is more suitable for early-stage games than middle and late stage games.

C:It requires more understanding of the RBY OU than C +, which will have a certain impact on the winning rate
Venusaur has 80 Base speed,it 's higher than cloyster,it movepool is similar to Victreebel.
Moltres,Kingler,Kabutops and Sandslash they all have improve attack/speed's move，reasonable use can cause great damage to the opponent's team.
Porygon can help Chansey to against Snorlax（No Amnesia）.

D:It has a unique positioning, but it may become a situation of 5-6. It should be used with caution
Hypno need special move to against RBY OU such as Counter or Hypnosis+Thunder Wave
Pinsir have Base 85 speed,and Swords Dance+Bind,but when Pinsir meets Rhydon/Gengar....and Pinsir need a chance to Swords Dance.
Dodrio is a bad Zapdos,it's also hate Rhydon team,but Normal+Flying is a good attack type,and it have Body Slam+Drill Peck to break team defense.
Omastar only help u to against Snorlax+Tarous on middle/last game,it can't help u defect Starmie+Zam+Chansey
Kangaskhan have a poor Special,but it's need Surf/Counter to defect Rhydon and more Normal type pokemon,and it have soild Physical attack to break opponent team.
Gyarados is a great wallbreaker,but...he haven't got Swords Dance/Agi and very weak Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave
Machamp is a good wallbreaker on ou,but also weak Thunder Wave and Psychic，if u use Machamp,you should strike with caution.On《Sun Zi's The Art of the War》，Machamp is more suitable for “turn from a guest into a host”stratagem.
Raichu have Surf,it can defact Rhydon and Golem,but it can't defect Exeggutor,and it's weak for Zapdos and Jolteon
Golduck and Poliwrath are offense Amnesia user,but not as good as slowbro.
Flareon have great attack and Special,and Body Slam+hyper beam+fire spin...but it's slow and on OU,Fire type is a problem for Flareon-Do not use Fire Blast to burn Chansey.Starmie and Zam!

E:It may work, but it's hard to make a big deal

F:It's bad for RBY OU.

Sry for my poor English lol.

 

[Koalacance]

If someone wants to talk about it , you can pm me in discord

 

[chuva de perereca]

don't have much to say. it feels like we are at a point in the meta where a lot of different structures and approaches can work fairly well, and that's pretty cool. had a lot of fun building during spl

 

[marcoasd]

Hide

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Chansey | 244 | 98.39% | 50.00% |
| 1 | Snorlax | 244 | 98.39% | 49.18% |
| 3 | Tauros | 238 | 95.97% | 48.32% |
| 4 | Starmie | 180 | 72.58% | 48.89% |
| 5 | Alakazam | 105 | 42.34% | 51.43% |
| 6 | Exeggutor | 103 | 41.53% | 50.49% |
| 7 | Jynx | 72 | 29.03% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Rhydon | 69 | 27.82% | 46.38% |
| 9 | Gengar | 52 | 20.97% | 50.00% |
| 9 | Cloyster | 52 | 20.97% | 44.23% |
| 11 | Zapdos | 39 | 15.73% | 38.46% |
| 12 | Jolteon | 30 | 12.10% | 56.67% |
| 13 | Slowbro | 13 | 5.24% | 69.23% |
| 14 | Lapras | 4 | 1.61% | 50.00% |
| 14 | Moltres | 4 | 1.61% | 50.00% |
| 14 | Persian | 4 | 1.61% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Articuno | 3 | 1.21% | 33.33% |
| 18 | Dragonite | 1 | 0.40% | 0.00% |

It's funny how in this SPL almost every win rate is close to 50%.
I get the idea that the current state of the metagame is "normal 3" plus Starmie, plus Exeggutor and Alakazam, plus a splash of Rhydon and Jynx.
As chuva said, you can pretty much use anything and be fine.

Bad times for Cloyster, Zapdos and Rhydon; good times for Jolteon, Alakazam and Jynx.
Exeggutor is doing quite well but it's used in roughly half of the teams. If anything, these numbers are an assist to those who want to rank Zam over Egg: it's like observing an overtaking in real time.

Moltres is underrated and deserves way better, his fame of "pray to hit multiple Fire Spins to win games" is pretty undeserved. For starters it is not the worst bird of the trio, Articuno is by some wide margin but we will get into that.

-Unlike Zapdos a walled Moltres doesn't let Rhydon, a very ferocious and dangerous enemy in, but Starmie Chansey or Alakazam, all of which aren't nearly as threating if your team isn't already in bad shape to begin with.

-His counters are all very well beatable by Moltres itself and without the need to resort to Fire Spin which should be always considered an emergency button not the standard move.

I have seen some really bad arguments over the years, "you can thaw things, ew" "you have to hit 10 Fire Spins in a row, ew" "if you burn a special mon you lose ew" and to those i say, play better games

Moltres should be B rank alongside Slowbro.

Moltres and Articuno are very similar especially when it comes to rankings: they're both nasty sweepers with some flaws. Similar stats, similar movesets. They are on the same boat.

Articuno is better for hit and run purposes if you have to, given that it's an Ice Type. This doesn't mean that we aren't smart enough to realize that Moltres isn't meant for the early game. Still, it's important noting this objective fact. Sometimes things get out of control.

Fire Spin is cool if used carefully. Personally, when I say Moltres' accuracy sucks I mean that Fire Blast isn't as accurate as Blizzard plus Ice Beam. That looks relevant to me, but maybe I'm just being too paranoid about it.
Accuracy and the Zapdos/Rhydon matchups are the reasons why I joined the Articuno bandwagon a while ago.
After reconsidering Fire Spin + Hyper Beam against Chansey (and possibly Starmie or even Zam), I can say that my opinion was (and is) a bit too strong.
At the end of the day Zapdos and Rhydon aren't that common anymore, on the contrary Chansey is always there and Starmie is extremely common as well. I get your point.

Calling Moltres B rank could be just an overreaction to other people's rankings who are putting Articuno and Moltres on par with the likes of Lapras, Persian, Golem, Victreebel and Dragonite. My understanding is that we all agree that Moltres/Articuno are slots 14 and 15 in whatever order.
After that, it's all about how you distribute things to a given rank and I agree that they should be a rank above the aforementioned ones.
Slowbro did great in this SPL even though the sample size is admittedly damn small, I would say that's where the B rank ends.

I like the idea to start considering Moltres over Zapdos in SPL games under certain circumstances, especially at this time.
To me, the important thing is that Starmie has so many duties and it comes out early, getting para'd at least. So chances are that Articuno/Moltres is going to get open. On the other hand Rhydon is always saved for late; Jolteon is an obstacle too for Zapdos.
I don't think Rhydon's offense has a lot to do with it, you don't want to reveal any of the legendary birds before removing their walls anyway.

 

[Plague von Karma]

It's VR Season and I want to post my unqualified take that will get me cancelled on the spot. This is...sorta ordered in each tier?

PvK copes for about 20 minutes

S: Inarguably the best Pokemon available. I will not discuss The Big 3 Order to save everyone's time because it is literally the most pointless discussion in all of RBY, at least right now. I will give a different nuclear take, though: you could probably make a Taurosless team using Lapras or something and remain somewhat competitive. I may make a big post on that some other time, I've been field testing something interesting.

A: Yeah, the most vanilla take of all time. I have heard arguments for Alakazam over Exeggutor in the past, but eh, I'm not entirely sold yet. Maybe when more people show they value it enough to not sack it to sleep so much. It's definitely been dropping! I just have absurd standards when you're this high on the rankings.

B+: Zapdos goes here. It's as polarising as ever, but I think it's on the verge of making a big break for some reason. I think the people who put it with the other Bs or - god forbid - B- haven't lived long enough to see Zapdos's proper dominance. Either that or they haven't explored beyond Thunderbolt / Thunder Wave / Drill Peck / Agility. Give Hyper Beam a try!

B: I love Clamp God so much also yeah Rhydon and Jynx are there but I don't care let's collectively worship Clamp God for a moment.

B-: I wish Gengar didn't miss Hypnosis and die sometimes, but that's my fault most of the time. People who say Jolteon sucks are high but I understand given the world we currently live in, occasionally you need to shoot up to keep going. "The Slowbro Standard" is still as great a metric as ever for what's OU and what isn't.

C+: I have a feeling Lapras is going to rise again soon, and I don't think it'll be using Sing. Give Blizzard / Thunderbolt / Hyper Beam / Body Slam a try, it's much more consistent and I think that's what a Pokemon lacking reliable recovery like Lapras actually wants. You may scream "STARMIE GOOD" but ehhh, I think that misses the point of Lapras on a lot of levels. It's at its best when it's blocking Tauros wars. Persian is definitely a cope mon sometimes but every time I see someone pilot it properly I turn into Niagra Falls. Articuno and Moltres are cool and I like Troller's arguments for the latter, but I want to see this Pokemon proven a little bit more before it gets risen...but I think it'll happen. I don't wanna kneejerk just yet! Anyway, Porygon is the funny copium Pokemon but I think this thing is thoroughly underexplored.

C: Fallen OU warriors lie here. Victreebel makes me sad but just cannot deal with the current lines of play we're seeing, thus giving it little to take advantage of. Dragonite is El Wrapper del Infierno, but will literally achieve nothing half the time which is terrible in OU. With the slight decrease in Blizzard usage, however, maybe it'll see a little more play this year. Golem still has yet to find a staple team that actually wants it over Rhydon and will continue to do so as people bring up the problem in chats without actually trying to solve it. Find a team that wants Rhydon but also wants a more consistent Rhydon matchup itself, that's where Golem will come in handy. And find teams where you don't want to boom your Lax but still want a boom! Seriously, use some common sense!

D: You can use these without getting laughed at. Kabutops is on the verge of a big hype phase, I've seen it quietly developing in the background for the past year or two now, ever since this one guy on the ladder smacked me on the ladder with it. I have a feeling it was Sceptross on an alt, he went and made an analysis a month or so later. Cringe Crab is Kabutops with a better Gengar matchup but a worse Tauros matchup, which is a weird trade to make but understandable. Venusaur is Swords Dance Victreebel with a more consistent Snorlax matchup, and I think this is valuable enough to rank at least somewhere if you're ranking Victreebel at all. Poliwrath and Hypno are sick and Amaranth keeps injecting me with heroin mons so it's going here. Sandslash and Omastar are just kinda there, Dodrio and Kangaskhan are your "I want Tauros 2 but don't want Persian for some reason" crew, just remember Kangaskhan is also sort of a Snorlax too.

E: It's garbage, but it's my garbage. Hands off! Pinsir is cool because it has Bind and Swords Dance, but it is a worse Victreebel in practice a lot of the time. Gyarados is REALLY fucking cool when it goes off and I will maintain that the GyaraJolt team I did is neat enough to work. Machamp is a worse Rhydon but has a really cool Chansey matchup that's achievable without paralysis, which is a really cool draw. Raichu is a Jolteon that hits Rhydon a bit harder but that Speed tier really sucks. Aerodactyl is a copium Snorlax wall and thus a worse Porygon. Clefable is the paralysis-maker 5000.

 

[Useless Uses]

Woah, a VR tier list? Time to listen to some guy rant about tiny differences in viability!

S & S-

Tauros is Tauros. Snorlax is Snorlax. Chansey is Chansey. What can be said about these three that hasn't already been said? Yes, you CAN drop Chansey for your team... But really, why would you? When you play a match both sides always bring Chansey. Its ability to slow the pace of the game is rivaled by none. I truly think one of the best uses for Snorlax is countering or forcing out Chansey. I shudder to imagine a world without Chansey, there'd be an abundance of Spa Attackers.

Very unique A ranks

I'm sure nobody has ever ranked these pokemon in this order! /s. A ranked pokemon are talked about waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much, also in no way am I good enough to fully understand the intricacies of them, go talk to Hipmonlee or May or something.

The Clam

Cloyster is great. Stopping most Tauros's (Tauri?) dead in their tracks as well as almost every physical attacker is nothing to scoff at. People still don't realize that Fire Blast is pretty good on Tauros, yes it can thaw a pokemon, however if you're worried about that just don't use Fire Blast twice in a row. When people start running Fire Blast I'll stop using the shell lord. Clamp is terrifying on paralyzed teams, eats them completely alive. Cloyster is forced out by a good amount of pokemon which can and will take advantage of the predictability of your switching, but still it's pretty neat.

B Babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyies

I'm skipping B rank because I'm lazy. However, let it be known that Jynx is my worst nightmare.

The C Rank

With the never-ending waterfalls of Reflect Snorlax and Chansey, Persian is pretty good. Wait for Snorlax to sleep, or in Chansey's case heal, and live out your fantasy as a real life feral cat. Dragonite just makes me sad. It has the highest attack stat... but is primary known for using a base 15 move. Golem is explodable Rhydon. Porygon is only known because of that one Troller match, it's good but can be disposed of if you make a bad play. Moltres spams Fire Blast, pretty fun. Now Hypno is definitely my favorite of the niche pokemon, because it's so FUN! No joke, physical attacker Hypno might be viable, I'm still looking into it.

Land of the Dancers

Kabutops is probably the best SD'er, maybe because it can outspeed pokemon and survive more than one hit, Pinsir's resistances are extremely underutilized. Resisting Earthquake can save you in a pinch, same with razor leaf. Sadly it is completely walled by Gengar. (no really, Pinsir only has normal and fighting type moves) Kingler is the most popular of the SD'ers... but also the worst. Almost every pokemon carries thunderbolt so its hard to setup safely.

Anyways that's it. Thanks, if you did, for reading.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

VR Time I guess:

Any explanations wanted just PM me on discord or something :)

 

[vapicuno]

Hi everyone,

I have worked with phoopes on this year's VR update as per last year. Again, this update will be based on an extension of my original methodology described here, taking inspiration from a previous post by Jorgen. Thanks to Aliss Amaranth chuva de perereca ErPeris FriendOfMrGolem120 Genesis7 Hayburner HML am Khaetis Koalacance Mikon Nails Oiseau Bleu Serpi shiloh Unowndragon for your rankings.

Okay, TLDR stuff first:
The average outlier-compensated ranks from everyone are

Aggregate Rankings

01 Tauros
02 Snorlax
03 Chansey
04 Starmie
05 Exeggutor
06 Alakazam
07 Rhydon
08 Zapdos
09 Cloyster
10 Jynx
11 Gengar
12 Jolteon
13 Slowbro
14 Lapras
15 Articuno
16 Moltres
17 Persian
18 Victreebel
19 Dragonite
20 Golem
21 Porygon
22 Kingler
23 Sandslash
24 Kabutops
25 Venusaur
26 Hypno
27 Kangaskhan
28 Gyarados
29 Poliwrath
30 Flareon
31 Omastar
32 Raichu
33 Pinsir
34 Dodrio
35 Machamp
36 Raticate
37 Golduck
38 Tentacruel
39 Charizard
40 Nidoking
41 Clefable
42 Hitmonlee
43 Aerodactyl
44 Nidoqueen
45 Tangela
46 Electabuzz
47 Fearow
48 Dugtrio
49 Rapidash
50 Onix
51 Arbok
52 Seadra
53 Scyther
54 Mr. Mime
55 Arcanine
56 Ninetales
57 Venomoth
58 Electrode
59 Magmar
60 Vaporeon
61 Lickitung
62 Blastoise
63 Butterfree
64 Beedrill
65 Pidgeot
66 Wigglytuff
67 Golbat
68 Vileplume
69 Parasect
70 Primeape
71 Magneton
72 Farfetch'd
73 Dewgong
74 Muk
75 Marowak
76 Hitmonchan
77 Weezing
78 Seaking
79 Ditto
80 Dragonair
81 Kadabra

Removing Pokemon that are ranked by less than 25% of voters yields

Aggregate Rankings

01 Tauros
02 Snorlax
03 Chansey
04 Starmie
05 Exeggutor
06 Alakazam
07 Rhydon
08 Zapdos
09 Cloyster
10 Jynx
11 Gengar
12 Jolteon
13 Slowbro
14 Lapras
15 Articuno
16 Moltres
17 Persian
18 Victreebel
19 Dragonite
20 Golem
21 Porygon
22 Kingler
23 Sandslash
24 Kabutops
25 Venusaur
26 Hypno
27 Kangaskhan
28 Poliwrath
29 Omastar
30 Raichu
31 Machamp
32 Raticate
33 Clefable

The aggregate VR tiers obtained are

Final VR Tiers

S:
A:
B1:
B2:
??:
C1:
C2:
D1:
D2:
E:

Let's go through the whole process.

First the data is cleaned by compensating outliers 1 standard deviation away from the edge of the percentiles expected to contain +/- 1 standard deviation of a normal distribution. This is a modification of the conventional interquartile range (IQR), which I have not chosen to use because 50% of the sample doesn't capture the full variation from what I've seen. The compensation is done by bringing these points to the edge of this extended range. This results in mostly zero, but sometimes one or two outlier corrections. We then plot the outlier-removed data as a function of the integer rank to obtain this graph.

VR Tiering Decisions

Full VR Ranking Plot

and we can zoom in to the top 32 mons where tiering decisions are expected to make more sense,

We use hierarchical clustering to help obtain the tiers. We form a dissimilarity matrix where the distances between Pokemon X and Y are given by the following: Take the rate at which voters ranked Pokemon X over Pokemon Y, take the logit transform as is done in logistic regression of a Bernoulli-distributed variable, and take the absolute value. Performing what we call a Ward linkage, this yields a dendrogram of the following sort, where the clusters (what we are going to call tiers) formed by setting a reasonable threshold are represented by different colors, and the dissimilarity between each cluster can be thought of as the vertical height of the nearest branch that connects the two clusters.

In other words, the Jynx-Cloyster tier is a lot closer to the Gengar-Jolteon tier (connecting height 8, note the log scale) than the Starmie-Alakazam tier (connecting height 20). Note that the order is not preserved by the algorithm, and hierarchical clustering throws away information, so this is just a rough guide to defining the tiers. Note in particular that Slowbro is extremely dissimilar to its adjacent tiers Gengar-Jolteon and Lapras-Victreebel, suggesting that Slowbro belongs in its own tier, as opposed to being grouped in a subtier B3 or C1. I will label its tier as ?? for the time being, and I will explain what I think of this later.

We want to verify the validity of the clusters obtained from the dendrogram, so we next plot the dissimilarity matrix and draw out the tiers specified.

To read the dissimilarity matrix, note that zero (the darkest value) corresponds to equal number of people voting in favor and against the Pokemon on the Y axis > X axis, and the higher the value, the more one-sided the voting becomes. In other words, the darker, the more indistinguishable the Pokemon on the X and Y axis become, and a well-defined tier would be a fully dark square (read my methodology thread for explanations).

This yields the following subdivision,

S:
A:
B1:
B2:
??:
C1:
C2:
D1:
D2:
E:

Numerical ranks represent partial tiers, whereas letter ranks represent a more complete separation. As explained in my methodology thread, I choose to adopt numerical subranks because there is no reason a priori to believe that Pokemon are grouped in viability by a tripartite scheme of +/-.

Metagame Shifts

This chart shows the difference between this and last year's VRs, together with the uncertainties in the means (not the standard deviation, but the standard deviations divided by sqrt(N-1)).

Rank Improvements from 2021 to 2022

A better way to understand how significant these changes are so as not to mistake changes occurring as due to pure chance is to plot the z-score,

where the Y axis means number of standard deviations away from zero. To recap, 0.5, 1 and 2 standard deviations are about 69%, 84%, and 98% significant (one-sided), meaning roughly that for a z-score of 1, we expect that this change to have occurred due to chance 100%-84% = 16% of the time. Therefore, trust the data more on the left than on the right.

Feel free to comment on the significant changes in this year's rankings compared to last year. I don't play RBY, so I'm relying on you to make the inferences.

Analysis of Camps

As per last year, I tried to look out for divided opinions. The most significant split I found was in opinions of Moltres and Lapras in the ??-to-C1 tiers. Interestingly enough, Moltres had already been a polarizing Pokemon since last year's VR.

?? to C1: Moltres/Lapras Split
In this analysis, I simply clustered voters based on their rankings of Slowbro-Victreebel. Then, I extrapolate to find patterns in the rest of the OU Pokemon.

Dendrogram of ??/C1S/A/B1/B2, Slowbro to Victreebel

from the Dendrogram, we identify a camp from HML_am-Hayburner, and from Genesis7-Serpi. We then plot their mean rankings of each Pokemon for the two camps,

Relative Ranks of camps formed from ??/C1 split

Note again the error bars are uncertainties in means, not the actual deviations (ie divided by sqrt(N-1)). Looking at HML am's camp for reference, and using the z-score to see the most significant changes, we obtain

z-score ordered by aggregate rankings as an alternate POV

The dissimilarity matrix confirms what we see in the average ranks. The HML am camp reveals that they unanimously think that Moltres > Lapras, making it the defining feature of this camp. They generally also have a preference for Articuno > Lapras and Cloyster > Rhydon.

Dissimilarity Matrix of S/A/B1/B2 Nails Camp

To read it, note that when you see a strongly red square, then the camp being analyzed frequently ranks the corresponding Pokemon on the Y axis more favorably than that on the X axis. Another way to see this is by looking across the diagonal line. A strongly red square should be accompanied by a strongly blue square reflected across the line, and we can say the camp prefers the Pokemon on the Y axis of the red square more than that of the blue square. For example, in the data below, the HML am camp prefers Moltres to Lapras.

Again, as I don't play this tier, please comment based on your metagame knowledge what you think these different camps of opinions mean.

Individual Analyses

For those who are interested to see whose S to C rankings are closest to theirs, you can refer to the chart below. The numbers inside the box go from -100% (full anticorrelation) to 100% (full correlation). They are sorted by the S to C dendrogram order (and the light squares represent the camps).

And finally, these are the relative ranks of everyone. Blue = disfavor, Red = favor. Cyan lines demarcate tier cutoffs.

Individual Ranking Graphic

Attention, RBY UU Players: Special Note about Slowbro

Since this is my first time that I am involved in an instance where my VR methodology will have a real impact on a metagame (RBY UU), I thought I should lay out precisely my thoughts on how to deal with Slowbro, especially since this has caused some controversy in the RBY discord.

1. Slowbro is almost entirely distinct from the tiers above and below it, and therefore belongs in its own tier, not what conforms to last year's B nor C. Two people gave it a lower rank (14, 16) than the average (13), and one gave it a higher rank (12). This is a small deviation from the otherwise unanimous opinion that Slowbro's position is a solid 13. I could technically call Slowbro tier C and the rest D, but people might protest. See point #3.
2. The Pokemon in UU are currently designated by a cutoff at the "B-" tier of the OU VR.
3. Even though tiers are defined by such alphanumeric cutoff points, alphanumerical tier names have no metagame-related meaning in the framework of this methodology. They only serve to distinguish groups of Pokemon that people find similar to each other from other groups, without any qualitative statement about their viability like "C = marginally viable in OU", if this methodology is followed exactly. For example, in the extreme case where Tauros, Snorlax, and Chansey were unanimously ranked 1, 2, and 3, then they would each form their own tier (S, A, B), and Starmie would by definition be C tier, even though it is a top-rated Pokemon.
4. In other tiers like my home tier ADV, it was agreed upon with the VR coordinator that some single-Pokemon tiers have been renamed as or merged with other numerical subtiers to ease the reader into a style consistent with the common notion of viability, There is no negative impact because we are not doing tiering with VRs. However, for the sake of tiering, being precise is presumably important here.
5. Confusion arises in tiering when new tiers emerge, even though the tiering standard is an alphanumeric subtier.
6. I think, what the authors of the tiering policy intended by setting an alphabetical cutoff like "B-", is to take reference to specific Pokemon like "the subtier that Pokemon X is in and those tiers above" (inclusive criterion - who should be in OU?) or "the subtier that Pokemon Y is in and those tiers below" (exclusive criterion - who should be in UU?). For example, if X is Slowbro, then yes, Slowbro should be in OU. If X is Gengar, then Slowbro should not remain in OU. If B- was chosen in the past because Slowbro was there, then the re-tiering of Slowbro risks its exclusion from the policy that was meant for itself in the first place.
7. Going strictly by the alphanumeric criterion of "B-", instead of any Pokemon-specific criterion, Slowbro now drops to UU. But does the "B-" capture the original intention of the arbiters and authors of the tiering policy? May mentioned to me the presence of the de facto "Slowbro standard", where some think that OU is defined to be Slowbro and above. Is that the intention?
8. If it does not, then I recommend either a new set of Pokemon-specific inclusive or exclusive criterion to replace the be clearer about the standards, or that tiering councils actively make a tiering decision after looking at the new tier boundaries.

The letter vs the spirit of the law. I have always said and believed that my tiering methodology is meant to be an aid to, and not to replace the community's conceptual understanding. Where there is doubt, I encourage returning to the conceptual roots of these policies and evaluating how they are relevant now.

I'm available to discuss on discord.

Closing Remarks

The large number of graphs may seem daunting, and to people who aren't quantitatively trained, this may be really confusing. I recommend just glancing over the spoilers on the first read, only thoroughly analyzing them after you've gone through the more important graphs that have been left unhidden. I'm interested to know what you can infer from these trends even though I don't play the metagame, and I hope this can generate some discussion.

Finally, I have attached the Jupyter notebook for this in a zip file. You'll need python and the associated packages to open and run it, and the easiest way to do that is to install the anaconda library here.

 

[phoopes]

Also worth mentioning: voters were chosen with the following criteria:

• Top 24 in last year's RBY Circuit AND/OR
• Played at least 5 SPL games of RBY OU in the past 3 years

Here's a spreadsheet with how everyone voted.

Thanks again to everyone who made this happen!

 

[Teh]

My VR as someone who has only ever played 3 tour games and is COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED to give an opinion

If you disagree with me, feel free to shut up because I will completely ignore and block you if you tell me I'm wrong :)
(/j)

 

[Chilln0]

A lot of placements are similar to the current VR. I mean the meta has been developed for over 2 decades now, so it makes sense. So I’ll just go over the notable placement changes, as going over every single one is pointless and largely irrelevant considering how niche some of these are, so I’ll probably have less to say as we go down the list.

Chansey is definitely better than Snorlax in the current meta, although I wouldn’t call it better than Tauros. It’s able to spread literally any good status in the game, and is the best answer to any special attack that isn’t using Ice Beam/Blizzard, and even then a paralyzed Chansey can take those fine. It’s not even limited to spreading status, as its still a great special attacker in its own right, and it has a special movepool only rivaled by Starmie. Most games are completely defined on whose Chansey dies/gets frozen/is put to sleep first and when. Snorlax is obviously good, but it doesn’t have the same impact that Chansey does on a game to game basis. I mean freezing a Chansey is way more impactful than freezing a Snorlax. You just don’t see people sacrifice entire mons just to take Snorlax out or to bring it into KO range the way you see it with Chansey.

Eggy is still the 4th best mon in my eyes. I feel like people overreacted and started hating on it after the development of Sing Chansey no longer making it a requirement on every team, and put it below Starmie. Indeed, while Eggy is no longer the auto include people once saw it as, its still really, really good. Having Sleep Powder and Explosion means that its really hard to go wrong with it, and every time you send it out its pretty much guaranteed to do something. And that’s the worst case scenario, sometimes Eggy will just take out half of your team in 3 turns. The best part is that even without any of this, without the fact that it has 2 moves that let it delete the Pokémon in front of it, there’s still an argument that its OU even without the main thing that makes it good to begin with, because unlike Jynx, Eggy is an amazing Pokémon on its own. It’s actually more powerful than Starmie in terms of sheer power. Starmie is good too, there’s no getting around that. It obviously does have a strong case for being #4, I mean its definitely the most popular take nowadays, and for good reason. Being a fast special attacker that is also physically bulky, has great coverage, and can check Tauros will never not be good, but it doesn’t perform on a game to game basis as consistently. Like it CAN check Tauros, but switching into a Body Slam will never not be terrifying for it, as it’s completely shut down by paralysis. Starmie is still better than Zam though, because it has the advantage of not being forced to Recover after being hit by a single physical attack, and has an attacking move that isn’t just Psychic.

Cloyster being ahead of Zapdos may be a controversial one, but I hope I can convince people that it is. In the current meta, its a lot more common for faster Pokémon to be healthy, which doesn’t suit a special attacking late game cleaner. It’s also simply not a better cleaner than Tauros. Its still amazing regardless, and it absolutely steamrolls teams that aren’t ready for it, but Cloyster offers so much more in my opinion. It takes physical hits like a champ, and unlike Rhydon it doesn’t immediately die to a Blizzard, instead it eats them up, and can send them out itself. It can give free switches, which no other OU Pokémon can claim to do. Overall though, this placement can really go either way. In fact, there’s an argument to be made that Cloyster is better than Rhydon, but I wouldn’t go that far due to Rhydon hitting way harder than Cloyster. Overall, being a physical wall is really damn useful when 2 of the top 3 Pokémon are physical attackers.

The next tier is one that I’m the least sure about, and they can all realistically be in any order. I may be bias for putting Jolteon the highest because its my favorite OU staple, but its crit rate and STAB Thunderbolt, along with it being the fastest OU Pokémon make it the best of them to me, and can be just as hard to switch into as a Tauros Body Slam. It can even revenge kill Tauros.

Jynx is overrated, and I originally had it lower than Gengar just because I hate it. It’s useful for like 1-2 turns and then it becomes completely worthless. While sleep is obviously really good, a lot of leads are great sleep absorbers, namely Starmie, which makes Jynx less consistent. The same thing can be said about Gengar, and I originally had him above Junx due to him not being useless in the mid game. I still believe this to an extent, and their placements can really go either way, so I’d say they’re tied for now.

Moving down to the more niche picks I have two things I want to talk about. Persian is pretty good. Being a second Tauros is really valuable, and Persian does its job well. I think it is the best non OU Pokémon because of it. Many people say its bad due to it being useless against Gengar, but Gengar is pretty rare. It’s not like it gets walled by Rhydon or some more common.

Lastly, I put Kingler a tier higher than the other Swords Dance users. Its by far the best user of the move, and the other users are more like alternatives to Kingler than equals to it. It just has everything it needs to succeed as a Swords Dance user, there aren’t really any moves its missing out on, although the other users do have some unique traits that make them worth using.

Oh yeah I also ranked Dugtrio. I just thought that the idea of a fast physical attacker that is immune to Thunder Wave would be useful somewhere. Although it’s still Dugtrio so its ranked last

 

[marcoasd]

As most know, Invitational III is underway and it's obviously an event that is going to have an impact on the trends and possibly the tier itself.
I'll post the reasoning behind my rankings after the tournament, or at least my tournament, will be over.
For the time being, I'm pretty confident about S to B.

S: Tauros, Snorlax,
Chansey
S-: Starmie
A+: Exeggutor, Alakazam
A: Rhydon, Cloyster, Slowbro, Zapdos
B+: Jynx, Gengar
B: Jolteon
C: Articuno, Moltres, Lapras, Persian, Dragonite, Victreebel, Golem, Porygon or whatever works for you not necessarily in this specific order

My rankings are always an average of what a pokemon does in the tier and what a pokemon does in this specific moment.
Movesets would deserve their own thread/discussion, and arguably rankings too.
Playing RBY is as anxious as ever with sleep wars, freeze wars, speed ties and 4 MSS resulting in getting walled. On the other hand the metagame is extremely interesting and filled with variety.