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Pet Mod RBY CAP (CAP 3 - Competitive Learnset)
- Thread starter DuoM2
- Start date
A new sleeper option.
Something we've noticed while playing in the server is that while the new mons are cool they don't really open up new options in sleep.
Sleepers is one of the top cornerstones of gen 1 competitive battling so why don't we explore more of it? CAPmon 3 ideally won't be strong to the point of replacing the top sleepers like Jynx or Sing Chansey but rather be a nicher fun option like Gengar is: Not the best or most reliable but one that has its own niche separated from the other sleepers.
Something we've noticed while playing in the server is that while the new mons are cool they don't really open up new options in sleep.
Sleepers is one of the top cornerstones of gen 1 competitive battling so why don't we explore more of it? CAPmon 3 ideally won't be strong to the point of replacing the top sleepers like Jynx or Sing Chansey but rather be a nicher fun option like Gengar is: Not the best or most reliable but one that has its own niche separated from the other sleepers.
A Decent Fighting Type
I noticed that there are No good fighting types in RBY, whatsoever.
With this concept, I believe we could potentially shed light on an underutilized type. The goal of this CAPmon is not to demolish the big three, but to add some support if needed. With a decent amount of psychic types in general, it shouldn't be too crazy. I also reccomend balancing it's stats so it both wins and loses to Tauros.
I noticed that there are No good fighting types in RBY, whatsoever.
With this concept, I believe we could potentially shed light on an underutilized type. The goal of this CAPmon is not to demolish the big three, but to add some support if needed. With a decent amount of psychic types in general, it shouldn't be too crazy. I also reccomend balancing it's stats so it both wins and loses to Tauros.
Shape-Shifter
A Viable Transform User. The only transform users in RBY are the garbage Ditto and the Banned Mew. Ditto is bad because of awful stats, and the inability to use any moves apart from transform. In most cases, Mew doesn't even use Transform because it has much better options. CAP3 will serve as a middle ground between these two extremes. It will have much better stats than Ditto, such as a high HP to capitalize on transform, and the ability to use other moves apart from transform in order to be viable even while it's not transformed. However, it's stats movepool can't be too good otherwise there would be no incentive to transform into something else.
A Viable Transform User. The only transform users in RBY are the garbage Ditto and the Banned Mew. Ditto is bad because of awful stats, and the inability to use any moves apart from transform. In most cases, Mew doesn't even use Transform because it has much better options. CAP3 will serve as a middle ground between these two extremes. It will have much better stats than Ditto, such as a high HP to capitalize on transform, and the ability to use other moves apart from transform in order to be viable even while it's not transformed. However, it's stats movepool can't be too good otherwise there would be no incentive to transform into something else.
Is it even possible to make a viable fighting type that both uses the type (ie has good stab and wants to run it) while not redefining the meta as we know it? Making it balanced means not immediately dying to Zam / Starmie /other Psychic users and also not completely obliterating the big 3 (or at least Chansey or Snorlax) out of the picture. Imho a new Fighting type is going too much into the realm of "would be neat" rather than into the realm of "should we do it", tbh. For a CAP with the goal to give alternatives to RBY gameplay and not reinvent it. We think a new Fighting type that is focused on being Fighting rather than just having it as a side thing is extremely risky, hard and not worth it. We shouldn't be flying this close to sun, not on CAP3, at least
Dusk Mage Necrozma
formerly XenonHero126
Paralysis Seeker
Body Slam is a huge part of RBY. Many mons run it and can easily cripple non-Normal types with it. In addition, Thunder Wave is used by some to target Normal-Types for paralysis. Instead of a mon that is immune to para spreading, I would like to explore the idea of a mon that wants to be hit by a Body Slam or Thunder Wave because it doesn’t really care about paralysis and wants to defend itself from other statuses and absorb Body Slams and Thunder Waves for its teammates. I feel like this is a more interesting and unique concept, as it’s fundamentally difficult to not care about paralysis no matter how slow you are, due to the nasty stun chance every turn, and as such makes a fascinating concept.
Body Slam is a huge part of RBY. Many mons run it and can easily cripple non-Normal types with it. In addition, Thunder Wave is used by some to target Normal-Types for paralysis. Instead of a mon that is immune to para spreading, I would like to explore the idea of a mon that wants to be hit by a Body Slam or Thunder Wave because it doesn’t really care about paralysis and wants to defend itself from other statuses and absorb Body Slams and Thunder Waves for its teammates. I feel like this is a more interesting and unique concept, as it’s fundamentally difficult to not care about paralysis no matter how slow you are, due to the nasty stun chance every turn, and as such makes a fascinating concept.
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I don't think this is a Mon concept tbh, it's just the concept for a concept. Why not just submit the niche directly like Poison/Electric Special Attacker or the Poison-type wall?
(also electric types aren't immune to thunder Wave and toxic is terrible this gen so neither of these concepts really work). If you wanna ignore status put it as a normal/ground so it's immune to TWave and Bslam para, making it very hard to paralyze.
Ema Skye
Work!
Hazy Maze Cave
This is a rebrand of the status stripper concept from the past two slates, because this move is so cool, but is limited to bad mons. Haze removes status conditions from the opponent, removes all stat boosts, removes the user's stat changes due to status (no longer slowed from para) and removes Reflect. Removing para from targets like Chansey (so you can try to freeze them) or changing your sleep target can help you get the upper hand, and the offensive use of removing Reflect can be a huge gamechanger, uniquely giving Haze an offensive use that it just doesn't see in new gens.
This is a rebrand of the status stripper concept from the past two slates, because this move is so cool, but is limited to bad mons. Haze removes status conditions from the opponent, removes all stat boosts, removes the user's stat changes due to status (no longer slowed from para) and removes Reflect. Removing para from targets like Chansey (so you can try to freeze them) or changing your sleep target can help you get the upper hand, and the offensive use of removing Reflect can be a huge gamechanger, uniquely giving Haze an offensive use that it just doesn't see in new gens.
Antifreeze
A mon that punishes fishing for freezes while not fishing for freezes itself. This concept would explore what roles work best for the concept (lead, wall, wallbreaker etc.) and what typing, likely when paired with Ice, could make progress without resorting to Ice Beam / Blizzard.
A mon that punishes fishing for freezes while not fishing for freezes itself. This concept would explore what roles work best for the concept (lead, wall, wallbreaker etc.) and what typing, likely when paired with Ice, could make progress without resorting to Ice Beam / Blizzard.
Antifreeze
A New Sleeper Option
Shape-Shifter
Hazy Maze Cave
A Decent Fighting-Type
Paralysis Seeker
A New Sleeper Option
Shape-Shifter
Hazy Maze Cave
A Decent Fighting-Type
Paralysis Seeker
Dusk Mage Necrozma
formerly XenonHero126
Hazy Maze Cave
Antifreeze
A New Sleeper Option
Paralysis Seeker
Shape-Shifter
A Decent Fighting-Type
Antifreeze
A New Sleeper Option
Paralysis Seeker
Shape-Shifter
A Decent Fighting-Type
Hazy Maze Cave
Shape-Shifter
Paralysis Seeker
Antifreeze
Shape-Shifter
Paralysis Seeker
Antifreeze
Shape-Shifter
A Decent Fighting Type
Anti-Freeze
Hazy Maze Cave
Paralysis Seeker
A New Sleeper Option
A Decent Fighting Type
Anti-Freeze
Hazy Maze Cave
Paralysis Seeker
A New Sleeper Option
Alright, the winner of this one ended up being Hazy-Maze Cave by Ema Skye!
RBY CAP 3 - Typing
There's a lot of ways you can take a Haze abuser, and this slate is the one where we'll be trying to push it towards a certain direction. How exactly should we build this Pokemon, and what typing would be best suited for it? You have a few days to submit a typing!
Water/Ghost
Given the fact that we are building around Haze, a fairly passive move, I think that this Pokemon's type should focus on being a defensive check the sweepers that it wants to use Haze against, capable of outlasting and grinding down its targets, rather than an offensive check that forces them out or KOs them with powerful STAB moves.
The most commonly used boosting move is Amnesia, so lets look at the coverage those Pokemon use. Slowbro mono attacks with either Surf or Psychic, Snorlax usually uses Blizzard and Normal STAB to 3HKO Chancy, Poliwrath uses Surf and Fighting STAB to 2HKO Chancy, and Golduck uses Water STAB and Ice coverage. Being a Water type will allow our new mon to resist all of the Amnesia boosted attacks except Slowbro's Psychic, and let it be immune to the physical coverage that these sweepers use to get past Chancy.
In addition, all Swords Dance sweepers are reliant on Normal coverage moves, like Hyper Beam, to facilitate their sweep. Users like Kingler, Pinsir and Scyther do not have the coverage to hit Water/Ghost hard, and Sandslash is offensively threatened by Water STAB. Venasaur and Victreebel are the only potential SD users that can beat a Water/Ghost offensively.
This type will also allow it to be very useful even against teams that have no boosting Sweepers, as being Immune to Normal and resistant to Ice are very useful in a metagame where Hyper Beam and Blizzard are 2 of the most used attacks.
Given the fact that we are building around Haze, a fairly passive move, I think that this Pokemon's type should focus on being a defensive check the sweepers that it wants to use Haze against, capable of outlasting and grinding down its targets, rather than an offensive check that forces them out or KOs them with powerful STAB moves.
The most commonly used boosting move is Amnesia, so lets look at the coverage those Pokemon use. Slowbro mono attacks with either Surf or Psychic, Snorlax usually uses Blizzard and Normal STAB to 3HKO Chancy, Poliwrath uses Surf and Fighting STAB to 2HKO Chancy, and Golduck uses Water STAB and Ice coverage. Being a Water type will allow our new mon to resist all of the Amnesia boosted attacks except Slowbro's Psychic, and let it be immune to the physical coverage that these sweepers use to get past Chancy.
In addition, all Swords Dance sweepers are reliant on Normal coverage moves, like Hyper Beam, to facilitate their sweep. Users like Kingler, Pinsir and Scyther do not have the coverage to hit Water/Ghost hard, and Sandslash is offensively threatened by Water STAB. Venasaur and Victreebel are the only potential SD users that can beat a Water/Ghost offensively.
This type will also allow it to be very useful even against teams that have no boosting Sweepers, as being Immune to Normal and resistant to Ice are very useful in a metagame where Hyper Beam and Blizzard are 2 of the most used attacks.
Ice / Rock
There are 3 cases where Haze is useful:
This mon will be a specially defensive wall without access to Blizzard.
The plan is simple:
This works vs Chansey and Alakazam but due to the Rock typing it was left intentionally weak to Surf/HPump Starmie, giving new options for the meta staple to vary things out and giving counterplay to CAP3 on the special side rather than just on the physical side.
The Ice/Rock typing comes in clutch again against Reflect Snorlax and Amnesia Slowbro.
Versus Snorlax you can use your Rock typing to switch into Snorlax's Body Slam and vs Slowbro you can come in on its Ice Beam. However, due to your Ice/Rock typing you are weak to Snorlax's Earthquake and Slowbro's Water STAB, if it runs it, giving counterplay and not completely eliminating these strategies.
As an added bonus it helps to balance the tier; remember: One of the goals of RBY CAP is to provide new options for the meta, not to redefine it. Thus, Ice/Rock CAP3 will be balanced vs the big 3: It will win vs Chansey, be even vs Snorlax by taking out its Reflect but getting hit by Earthquake and losing to Tauros' Earthquake.
This way CAPmon 3 uses Hax in a meaningful way that always is relevant - as Chansey always wants to be para'd and always is run, thus being geared towards fighting Chansey and other special walls like it makes sense - while at the same time providing counterplay, with Water STAB Slowbro or with Tauros' Earthquake. Once again, the goal of RBY CAP is to add to the meta rather than change it so it's imperative that we make the mon with a balanced spread of good and bad matchups.
There are 3 cases where Haze is useful:
- Vs a paralyzed Chansey, Starmie or Alakazam
- Vs a Reflect Snorlax
- Vs a setup Slowbro
This mon will be a specially defensive wall without access to Blizzard.
The plan is simple:
- Switch into Chansey
- Haze the Chansey
- Threaten to freeze the Chansey with Ice Beam
This works vs Chansey and Alakazam but due to the Rock typing it was left intentionally weak to Surf/HPump Starmie, giving new options for the meta staple to vary things out and giving counterplay to CAP3 on the special side rather than just on the physical side.
The Ice/Rock typing comes in clutch again against Reflect Snorlax and Amnesia Slowbro.
Versus Snorlax you can use your Rock typing to switch into Snorlax's Body Slam and vs Slowbro you can come in on its Ice Beam. However, due to your Ice/Rock typing you are weak to Snorlax's Earthquake and Slowbro's Water STAB, if it runs it, giving counterplay and not completely eliminating these strategies.
As an added bonus it helps to balance the tier; remember: One of the goals of RBY CAP is to provide new options for the meta, not to redefine it. Thus, Ice/Rock CAP3 will be balanced vs the big 3: It will win vs Chansey, be even vs Snorlax by taking out its Reflect but getting hit by Earthquake and losing to Tauros' Earthquake.
This way CAPmon 3 uses Hax in a meaningful way that always is relevant - as Chansey always wants to be para'd and always is run, thus being geared towards fighting Chansey and other special walls like it makes sense - while at the same time providing counterplay, with Water STAB Slowbro or with Tauros' Earthquake. Once again, the goal of RBY CAP is to add to the meta rather than change it so it's imperative that we make the mon with a balanced spread of good and bad matchups.
Fire / Ghost
Not exactly sure of the nuances between regular CAP and this project, but if we're allowed to make some polljumpy reasonings that's fine with me given the limited toolset of Gen 1.
The idea here is that Fire Blast is a pretty strong Special move, especially with STAB, but its chance to Burn is a mixed bag. On one hand, Burns are quite good against a variety of Pokemon, namely Physical/Mixed Attackers (or just exploders) that don't commonly run Rest like Tauros, Rhydon, Dracolilla, Exeggutor, Cloyster, and Gengar. Still, forcing a Rest can be useful for dealing with something like Snorlax. On other Pokemon, however, you may prefer them to be targets of Sleep, Paralysis, or Freeze, but with Fire Blast being your main STAB, an accidental Burn can get in the way. Herein enters Haze, which can let you remove Burn from something if you'd rather leave them vulnerable to another status, along with any other useful utility Haze already has.
Fire/Ghost is a cool typing that improves our match-up into Snorlax and Tauros, the most common physical mons in the metagame, but the common Earthquake remains an issue, and not resisting Ice this gen sucks as well. So Fire being mediocre defensively and Ghost being really good defensively balances out into a solid type overall, with good utility but some pretty obvious weaknesses, which is nice considering our primary targets.
Having more Fire moves in the metagame sounds nice too considering Freeze is so powerful. More chances to thaw yourself, or to bait in a Frozen mon. Win/Win honestly.
Not exactly sure of the nuances between regular CAP and this project, but if we're allowed to make some polljumpy reasonings that's fine with me given the limited toolset of Gen 1.
The idea here is that Fire Blast is a pretty strong Special move, especially with STAB, but its chance to Burn is a mixed bag. On one hand, Burns are quite good against a variety of Pokemon, namely Physical/Mixed Attackers (or just exploders) that don't commonly run Rest like Tauros, Rhydon, Dracolilla, Exeggutor, Cloyster, and Gengar. Still, forcing a Rest can be useful for dealing with something like Snorlax. On other Pokemon, however, you may prefer them to be targets of Sleep, Paralysis, or Freeze, but with Fire Blast being your main STAB, an accidental Burn can get in the way. Herein enters Haze, which can let you remove Burn from something if you'd rather leave them vulnerable to another status, along with any other useful utility Haze already has.
Fire/Ghost is a cool typing that improves our match-up into Snorlax and Tauros, the most common physical mons in the metagame, but the common Earthquake remains an issue, and not resisting Ice this gen sucks as well. So Fire being mediocre defensively and Ghost being really good defensively balances out into a solid type overall, with good utility but some pretty obvious weaknesses, which is nice considering our primary targets.
Having more Fire moves in the metagame sounds nice too considering Freeze is so powerful. More chances to thaw yourself, or to bait in a Frozen mon. Win/Win honestly.
at minimum i think this submission needs some additional detail.
~ this mon is not supposed to get instant recovery i am assuming, right?
~ what are u thinking its physical bulk might be like? if it is not at minimum 3hkod by tauros’s earthquake, then it essentially shuts down the best breaker/sweeper in rby ou and this is presumably not going to be acceptable in terms of cap’s intention of preserving the general rby ou metagame.
presumably it needs special bulk if u want it to be able to haze slowbro, so a low hp stat isnt an option. to give some examples, 100 base hp and 30 base defense would be maximum-ish physical bulk to still be 3hkod by tauros’s earthquake. to let tauros 2hko with earthquake (as it does vs gengar) would require a base defense stat around 10 or so, depending on the hp stat ofc.
~ offensively, is the mon meant to try to stall out things with rest + haze? haze has a lot of pp which is maybe interesting there, i guess, but rby ou stall doesnt exist cap creating a whole new playstyle seems odd. is it meant to freeze fish (all waters getting ice coverage in rby bc lol gamefreak)? is it meant to have a high special stat so that like water stab 3hkos snorlax or something?
there is nothing wrong with talking about how the mon performs against niche and hyperniche threats, but since you dont even say anything about the big three normals (besides amnesia lax which barely exists), or the three psychics, this submission really does not give enough information for anyone to have a sense about what this mon might do and therefore to be able to discuss or vote on it
Yeah I meant switching in a Frozen mon to thaw yourself. Only applies to a couple things realistically but still a smart play if you can pull it off.