Announcement Putting the Mix back into Mix and Mega

[Isaiah]

Just to provide some history for those who are unaware, prior to generation 8, Mix and Mega included Red Orb and Blue Orb, as they were introduced in the same generation as Mega Stones and shared many similar characteristics. In generation 8 with the introduction of Dexit and the removal of Mega Stones, Mix and Mega's concept was reassessed and it was decided to only focus on Mega Stones moving forward to keep the concept simple. Since then, there have been many calls for Orbs to return to Mix and Mega, but the consensus has always been an "all item-based forme changes or only Mega Stones" as picking and choosing which Item-based formes are included or not is too arbitrary for an OM. With that, there still has been calls to change to an all-item forme based metagame from all levels of the forum. With generation 9 Mix and Mega starting out rather stagnant while the Generation 7 (now removed) ladder continued to rise in popularity, the OM mod team decided now was the time to reassess yet again and with unanimous support from the mod team and Mix and Mega council, here is the proposal:

In ~48 hours from this thread, Mix and Mega will be adjusted to encompass all item-based forme changes, provided there is no significant objection from the community. The introduced items will be as follows:

Introduced immediately:

Blue Orb (+50 Attack, +30 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense | Primordial Sea | N/A | 78 Kg)

Red Orb (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +50 Special Attack | Desolate Land | +

| 11 Kg)

Rusted Shield (+25 Defense, +25 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Dauntless Shield |+

| 575 Kg)

Rusted Sword (+30 Attack, +10 Speed | Intrepid Sword | +

| 245 Kg)

*Rusted Sword/Shield will also turn Iron Head into Behemoth Blade/Bash on all users.

After Home release:

Adamant Crystal (-20 Attack, +20 Special Defense | N/A | N/A | 167 Kg)

Griseous Core (+20 Attack, -20 Defense, +20 Special Attack, -20 Special Defense | Levitate | N/A | -100 Kg)

Lustrous Globe (-20 Attack, +20 Speed | N/A | N/A | 324 kg)

*Ultranecrozium Z will still be hardcoded out as it was in Generation 7 due to coding issues with two different stat changes possible.

Terastallization: Barring primals and megas, users of these items will also be able to Terastallize [as long as that's legal].

Feel free to use this thread to give your opinions on the change or just theorymon new introductions to the metagame, as always please keep it civil when discussing. Also, please refrain from discussing other topics than the proposed change. That's all, thanks!

 

[Ren]

Cinderace @ Red Orb
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- Trailblaze / Gunk Shot

Iron Moth @ Red Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Fiery Dance
- Discharge
- Energy Ball / Solar Beam / Sludge Wave / Dazzling Gleam / Morning Sun

these two are about to go crazy as fuck lmao, cinderace can sd and do some massive damage while iron moth is already nuclear after red orb boosts it to 190 and agility patches the speed weakness. evs prob arent optimal but this is fucking HYPE

e: definitely ban tera asap

 

[MAMP]

based

 

[Tea Guzzler]

this seems like a really good change and helps add a lot of diversity to the tier. some stuff will probably be broken with the orbs, namely moth for red orb (i don't see anything massively broken by blue orb - palafin is impossible to activate z2h with and even then it would revert back to zero), but rusted items adding steel-type is huge

i'm not entirely sure that ultranecrozium Z is something worth pursuing, as going through all of the efforts to implement it mightn't be worth given it's really similar to diancite in terms of stats. plus outside of just implementing a second version of the crystal for dawn wings -> unecro, i don't see how you'd realistically implement any checks for which boost to use that would also be intuitive for new players.
-> = +10 Atk / -30 Def / +54 SpA / -12 SpD / +52 Spe, +dragon, swap atk/spa and def/spd for ndw

 

[longhiep341]

A question, will Lustrous Globe, Griseous Core and Adamant Crystal boost the user's attacks?

 

[Isaiah]

A question, will Lustrous Globe, Griseous Core and Adamant Crystal boost the user's attacks?

As of right now the answer is no to my knowledge, but we'll see

This is just me speaking and not the opinion of the mods or anything, but I think it would be neat if they did

 

[Ryan5374]

"With generation 9 Mix and Mega starting out rather stagnant while the Generation 7 (now removed) ladder continued to rise in popularity,"

They're removing the usum ladder???

"With generation 9 Mix and Mega starting out rather stagnant while the Generation 7 (now removed) ladder continued to rise in popularity,"

They're removing the usum ladder???

Let me be the first (of probably many) to say that removal of the USUM ladder would be detrimental to the MNM community as a whole. USUM is vastly different from later gens of mix and mega due to its inclusion of many unique Pokemon and strategies not seen anywhere else. Its unique blend of mechanics has given it a strong community following that can be seen in its monthly ladder numbers that often surpass 50 thousand. Through the gen 8 ladder's lifetime, not one month went by where the gen 7 ladder didn't surpass it. I'm sure many others agree with me when I say that the gen 7 ladder is an asset to the MNM community as a whole, and being able to keep it would be a great boon to us.

 

[Samtendo09]

The Red Orb in general will be a huge benefit for any Pokémon that happens to have Fire-type coverage, not just Pokémon that are already Fire-type. After all, the base form Groudon were never a Fire-type to begin with, but become Ground / Fire as soon as it become Primal Groudon, making significantly better use of it’s Fire-type attacks in addition to effective Water-type immunity. There is a caveat that Water-type Pokémon can’t use it well due to vaporising their own Water-type moves, so not even Walking Wake can benefit it since even Hydro Steam will evaporate in Desolate Land.

As such, it makes the Red Orb more versatile than the Blue Orb, although the latter have the advantage of being anti-meta vs the Red Orb itself.

A few examples of non-Fire Pokémon that can benefit the Red Orb:
Patching up it’s lower Defense and can go either Physical or Special, though Special tend to be preferable due to higher Special Attack boost (130 Atk vs 160 SpA). That said, Power Whip will be helpful for physical Goodra against switching-in Blue Orb users. Hisuian Goodra, once released, gain a double weakness to Ground, but gain a better Defense and overall better defensive prowess.

Boomburst isn’t restricted or banned, and it’s the only Pokémon currently available with this move, so STAB Boomburst coming from 135 base Special Attack alongside Solar Beam coverage and Calm Mind as set-up is something to look out for.

+ Largely interchangable, but Hisuian Zoroark have 5 Speed higher (110 vs base Zoroark’s 105) and 5 Special Attack higher (175 vs 170 after Red Orb Primal Reversion), at cost of becoming weak to Fighting again.


One Fire-type that will benefit a lot from the Red Orb, in addition to the obvious picks posted above, will be Camerupt, as it shares the same potent STAB of Fire / Ground like Primal Groudon. While it’s Special Defense remains poor, patching it’s double weakness to Water (until opposing Blue Orb comes in) and being only weak to Ground helps a lot. Also Solar Beam, perfect coverage vs Water, Rock and Grass.

 

[Arissi]

I agree with all statements above. This is simply the most unique and iconic variant of the metagame and replacing it for another would largely hurt the current and future player base, as I believe that the generation 7 variant of Mix and Mega would appeal to newer players more than other variations.

 

[Low-Key]

Let me be the first (of probably many) to say that removal of the USUM ladder would be detrimental to the MNM community as a whole. USUM is vastly different from later gens of mix and mega due to its inclusion of many unique Pokemon and strategies not seen anywhere else. Its unique blend of mechanics has given it a strong community following that can be seen in its monthly ladder numbers that often surpass 50 thousand. Through the gen 8 ladder's lifetime, not one month went by where the gen 7 ladder didn't surpass it. I'm sure many others agree with me when I say that the gen 7 ladder is an asset to the MNM community as a whole, and being able to keep it would be a great boon to us.

Echoing this, basically he has everything to say here. We must sign a petition to keep the ladder for the greater good. Who's with me?!

 

[Arissi]

Echoing this, basically he has everything to say here. We must sign a petition to keep the ladder for the greater good. Who's with me?!

Me!!!!!!

 

[zastra]

Barraskewda @ Blue Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat
for once i can see skewda actually putting in work, if only it had flip turn...


Chien-Pao @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tera Blast
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
free iron head pao...
Chien-Pao @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Poison / Whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Crunch / Sucker Punch
- Tera Blast / Whatever
- Swords Dance
a funnier set, lmao, it gets RECOVER


Great Tusk @ Red Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Spinner
we have pdon at home


Garganacl @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Ground / Anything that makes it better
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Curse
garg no longer has splashability issues. broken.

don't remove usum!!!!!!

 

[SpaceSpeakers]

USUM MNM is the iconic gen of MNM. I'm sure a lot of people will be disappointed if you delete it because g7 MNM has a very strong community. Moreover, G7 MNM was even more active than both g8 and g9. This is kinda crazy but I hope the MNM councils will keep the g7 MNM ladder and that will be great for us.

 

[Rifk]

fully agree w everything said above. do not remove usum!!

 

[in the hills]

There has not been a single discussion post on Gen 7 Mix and Mega in either of the two hubs during the entirety of its existence as a ladder (2 years btw). To say it provided anything of note to the MnM community would be a falsehood and current gen Mix and Mega's ladder activity dropping is directly correlated to it. It will not be returning as a permaladder, and this is not the discussion topic of the thread. Any further posts on this topic will be deleted.

 

[Isaiah]

As a currently undefeated mix and mega ladder player (3-0), I figured I should share a theorymon of my own :D


Walking Wake @ Lustrous Globe
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water / Fairy / Steel?
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Steam
- Flamethrower
- Tera Blast

STATS: 99/83/91/25/83/129

If this is also getting the 1.2x power to Dragon / Water moves AND it can Terastallize to boost/avoid getting nuked by -ate Speed (and if you have the guts, you can try to run weather for an even bigger boost)...sheesh LOL it's going to be plenty strong :O

 

[prunyy]

This still doesn’t solve the problem that MnM has a lack of special walls at the moment. With Rusted Shield and Rusted Sword immediately being added, with terastalization, I feel like they will be incredibly strong.

There has been enough orb theorymoning, so i’ll try for some Rusted items. It is quite sad that they got such a huge nerf in Gen 9 and we weren’t able to play with these in their peak in Gen 8.


Slowbro @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Regenerator (turns into Dauntless Shield on switchin i presume)
Tera Type: Grass/Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack-Off
- Ice Beam
- other filler stuff probably, slowbro doesnt get steel moves, surf, flamethrower, whatnot

YAYYY MORE ANNOYING GARGANACL


Garganacl @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Body Press

here, we see the goofy elephant nuke all of MnM


Iron Treads @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground/Steel for offense, Flying/Grass for defense
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge/Ice Spinner
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Also want to mention that according to PS!, for example
Rusted Shield says: If held by Zamazenta, its forme changes it to Crowned Shield.
and
Lusterous Globe says: If held by Palkia, its Water- and Dragon-type attacks have 1.2x power.
So I’m assuming that the boost actually does work, making the 0 stat buff they normally do get even more stronger as they can add tera on top of it.

Can we call it Mix and Form now?

 

[Isaiah]

Can we call it Mix and Form now?

No. Mix and Mega is a perfectly fine name

 

[LBDC]

A very good decision from the OM team.
It is a long time since I'm no longer actively playing MnM as I did in the past (back in gen7 days) but I was one of the people finding the removal of Orbs a bad decision. This process, that leads to the Orbs removal was messy, behind closed doors, and ultimately went against any real need or urgency.
Thanks you for fixing that!

 

[drampa's grandpa]

I'm very excited to use the new items tbh.

Dragonite @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
STATS: 91/131/120/100/125/70

This set is designed to set up easily and sweep once per match with the Shield boost. It automatically gains Intrepid Shield and Steel Type at the beginning of the match so no rocks weakness or anything.

Notably Iron Head turns into Behemoth Bash, which only has 8 PP, so another attack seems fairly necessary. I chose Dragon Claw for reliability and STAB. Extremespeed could help with the low speed tier, while Earthquake is just eternally solid coverage. Substitute helps further setup. IDK what will be best honestly.

Roaring Moon @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
STATS: 105/169/71/55/101/129

The same set but now it's Roaring Moon and Rusted Sword! Note the 169 attack which gets a free +1 the first time you switch in. Not actually super priority weak thanks to being part Steel, but low Defense hurts. Still at +2 you murder everything.

Dragapult @ Red Orb
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp

THIS GHOST IS ON FIRE
It's pretty clear what I'm trying to do here. A bit slower than other Pults but with different typing, super strong Fire moves... but it's still Pult.

 

[Clas]

Volcarona @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water / Ground / Rock / ???
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Will-O-Wisp / Tera Blast
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun

funny mon. you have a very fair and balanced stat spread of 406def at +1 and 296spd at ±0. oh and you have 1 weakness which tera mitigates. funny mon. who cares about desoland when you can simply boost past lmao. definitely pair with a blue orb mon tho, esp with ajet for red orb volcarona

 

[Gimmicky]

Slither Wing @ Red Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire / Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Leech Life
- Earthquake
- Morning Sun / Heat Wave
STATS: 85/165/99/135/105/81

This thing is a real Volcarona now!!! Flame Charge mitigates your meager speed, notably letting you outspeed Pult at +1, and is surprisingly strong thanks to your own sun. Leech Life is a reliable healing STAB and Earthquake hits the fire types your STAB miss out on. Morning Sun gives you even more reliable recovery, and Heat Wave can now threaten specially frail Pokemon.



Meowscarada @ Blue Orb
Ability: Overgrow
Tera Type: Dark / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Flower Trick
STATS: 76/160/70/111/90/123

*clicks spikes* *clicks u-turn* *clicks spikes* *clicks u-turn* *clicks spikes* *clicks u-turn* *clicks flower trick* *clicks u-turn*

 

[in the hills]

Given the overwhelming support for this, we will be closing the thread now to allow for discussion to migrate over to the main Mix and Mega thread. Thank you to everyone for the feedback and we hope you all enjoy the changes!

Code will be merged soon once we have 100% confirmation on some research things, please be patient!

EDIT: Research things were confirmed, Lustrous Globe and Adamant Crystal will force Pressure if using regular ability and Telepathy if using Hidden Ability.