Project Uber: Leads

OK, someone has already posted Abomasnow lead but I have tested the following set with great success

Abomasnow @ Focus Sash
6SpD/ 252 SpA/ 252Spe
Mild
~ Grass Knot
~ Blizzard
~ Ice Shard
~ Magic Coat


Vs. Deoxys-S: Blizzard does 77.2% - 91.3%, followed up by the 18.7% - 22.4% provided by Ice shard and the 6% chipped off Deo's heath via hail. It will only able to set up one layer unless it has 252hp ev

Vs. Groudon: Grass Knot does 86.1% - 101.5% to 252/ 60 SpD Groudon. Followed up by Ice shard and hail recoil you will KO. Groudon can only hope to KO you with overheat or stone edge, which will be prevented by the focus sash

Darkrai: Magic Coat bounds back dark void and you will prevail. But if it predicted that and trick scarf you are not completed crippled, since you invest major in speed and can switch out and act as a decent revenge killer later. This is the major reason to go with max speed, really.

Shaymin- S You win with sash. Ice shard does 59.6% - 71.3% to 4HP Shaymin-S. A solid 2HKO and it cannot OHKO you thanks to sash

Deoxys-A Deo A attack bring you down to 1HP, but you hit it with Grass knot or Blizzard, then it will fall to hail damage.

Kyogre Grass Knot 2KHOs 252/0 versions, while it cant do the same back, you will outspeed 0 speed Kyogre with the given EV's.

Diagla Not a very good match up. Blizzard does 37.6% - 44.6% to 252/ 116 Diagla. You live through either Draco Meteor or flamethrower with sash. Outspeeds no speed variants with the given EV's, so even if it knock you out it is really crippled and does not set up Stealth rock. But I personally does not face a lot that does not outspeed me, and that could be a problem

RayQuazza Win or lose depends on if it hold sash or not. Blizzard OHKO or bring it down to 1 hp 70% of the time and it does not takes hail damage, both thanks to air lock. If it survive at 1 hp, it kills you with extremespeed first before you can ice shard. But your team should be easy to pick it up.

Mew Possibly the worst match up of all the common lead mentioned. Blizzard does 40.3% - 47.8% to the lead set. But it outspeed you and set up SR turn one, then U-turn out turn two. Although I call this the worst match up of all common lead, you won't die instantly and can dent it a bit before it u-turn out, so this is not too bad.

As you can see it does well against most of the common lead. Be warn however, Abomasnow does not do well against a lot of uncommon lead, oddly enough. Steel lead such as Scizor, Metagross, Forrestrees and Lucario: Infernoape, Tyranitar, Cloyster, Qwilfish, Froslass etc all either takes little damage and easily OHKO Abomasnow or set up on it. But hey it does well on the most common lead so it is worth trying!
 
The Abomasnow lead looks like it would work well, but my experience in Ubers with Abomasnow leads me to believe that it's not so great. So many teams have either Groudon, Kyogre, Tyranitar, or a combination of the set (Groudon/Kyogre > Weather Teams) that I can't really abuse Blizzard like I want to. And if that plus side is gone from Abomasnow, I'm inclined to just use something like Shaymin-S. Still, it definitely looks nice.
 
I'd like to contribute. This is a Trick Room Palk lead that's been doing very well for me, getting me to 30th on the leaderboard. Part of the advantage of using lead Palkia over TR Dialga or Bronzong is that it's less likely to be Taunted. This lead is not meant to stop set-up, but instead immediately place momentum in your hands.



Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Pressure
Quiet 252/4/0/252/0/0
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Outrage
- Trick Room

Vs Deoxys-S: This is a very special situation. Against players who I have never played before I usually Trick Room and then double Dragon Pulse (I hate Spacial Rend misses). Against players I've played before it becomes a mindgame. Am I going to TR while you set layers or am I going to Pulse while you Taunt?

Vs Groudon: This depends on playstyle. You can TR, and Dragon Pulse twice, at the risk of Groudon double Earthquaking, or switch.

Vs Darkrai: Palkia, sadly, can do nothing against lead Darkrai. Best to switch to a sleep taker or let Palk take it instead.

Vs Shaymin-S: Set up TR and hope Air Slash doesn't flinch you 3 times in a row.

Vs Deoxys-A: Palk isn't OHKO'd by anything Deoxys-A can throw at it. TR away.

Vs Kyogre: Palk loves Kyogre leads, as it's a guaranteed TR set up... bar parahax. Serious, serious parahax.

Vs: Dialga: Palk doesn't like the threat of Draco Meteor. Switch out.

Vs Mew: Essentially the same as Deoxys-S, though prediction is needed to avoid being ohko'd by Explosion.

As stated before, Palk's number one priority is Trick Room set-up. Bronzong helps greatly with the leads Palk can't set up on, resisting Dragon, being immune to Ground, and having fantastic bulk and access to both TR and Stealth Rock.
 
I'm not really sold on TR Palkia's item. Does Lustrous Orb get any notable KOs? Lum Berry would let you match up better against Darkrai and TWave Ogre. Haban would let you setup TR on Dialga and take a swing at it before going down.


I recall seeing it in QC a bit back, though IIRC it got rejected?
 
Lustrous is used so that Palk can be used midgame as a sweeper. Trick Room teams cannot afford to throw away their set-ups thoughtlessly, and a pokemon that is good at both setting up and abusing Trick Room is invaluable. Lustrous gives Palk more use mid and late game. The power is much more appreciated midgame than surviving a Draco Meteor or avoiding a Dark Void in the begining. Palk is not meant to be a suicide lead.

As for the QC, I did not write that and was not aware it existed. :P
 
Referring to the first Cloyster lead, Icicle Spear is a consideration for Rayquaza leads, which are rising in popularity.
 
252 Attack with a neutral nature Skill Link will do 91.2% - 119.7% to 0/0 Hasty MixRay while the set on the first post always 1hkos with Ice Beam barring Focus Sash. As Ice-Eyes said Ray leads usually don't carry Focus Sash opting for Life Orb(or Lum Berry).
 

Brambane

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I have a lead to contribute! I've been playing around with this on Pokemon-Online for a while, and it seems to work well enough to deserve a post. It help me get pretty high on the leaderboard at one point.


Name: Physically Defensive Lead
Item: Chesto Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- X-Scissor
- Low Kick / Sleep Talk / Toxic

Goal: Keep the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock while getting your own Stealth Rock on the field.

Armaldo is, in a sense, very similar to Forretress. It has two distinct advantages over Forry, though. The first on is Armaldo is not 4x weak to Fire-type attacks. This means leads like Fire Punch Deoxys can't OHKO Armaldo before it sets up. Second is Armaldo's base 125 Attack stat and X-Scissor. Armaldo's X-Scissor 2HKOes Wobb, making Wobb much more weary about coming in and using Encore. It also gets a Special Defense boost from Sandstorm, but the ever changing weather in ubers makes this a hard advantage to play upon.

Armaldo does have his problems too. The most prominent problem is Armaldo is weak to Water-type moves, which are common in ubers. It is also Stealth Rock weak, which is always bad. Worst of all, though, Ghost-types set up on Armaldo very easily.

Against common leads:

vs. Deoxys-S: Probably one of the best match-ups you can get. X-Scissor turn one, Rapid Spin turn two. Deoxys-S is dead, and it gets no hazards on the field.

vs. Groudon: Here's where those defense EVs come in. Armaldo is never 2HKOed by defensive Groudon's EQ. It can then set up Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin Groudon's SR away. If Armaldo is running Toxic, it can also take the time to Poison Groudon. Leftovers are very helpful here.

vs. Darkrai: Chesto Berry and / or Sleep Talk help. X-Scissor does a ton of damage to Darkrai.

vs. Shaymin-S: More annoying than painful, but Seed Flare still hurts. Aside from unlucky flinches, it should get up Stealth Rock without a problem. X-Scissor does decent damage.

vs. Deoxys-A: Armaldo can survive two Superpowers with those EVs! It pretty much does the same thing it does against Deoxys-S here. Watch out for Grass Knot. It won't OHKO, but it hurts like hell.

vs. Kyogre: Armaldo takes it up the rear from Kyogre. Don't keep it in.

vs. Dialga: Draco Meteor hurts. Low Kick puts a decent dent into Dialga. I wouldn't stay in if I am not running Leftovers.

vs. Mew: ALWAYS X-SCISSOR TURN 1. Aside from that, do as seen fit. Good thing Rapid Spin isn't stopped by Taunt. Baton Pass Mew is more annoying than SR variants.

Armaldo also does well against Deoxys and TTar (without Stone Edge) leads. Giratina-O and Ghost Arceus stop it cold. I might get around to testing a Specially Defensive lead one day.
 
I've heard of Armaldo leads doing decently in Ubers, and it looks like it would work fine. The main concern is that Armaldo tends heavily towards the "lead metagame usability" side of the "lead meta usability / general meta usability" continuum, meaning that you face heavy competition from Forretress (who, due to solid resistances, is far more useful midgame). Still, it's viable, it seems.
 

shrang

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Okay, maybe because I'm using a damn Tyranitar lead, but last night I got mauled by a Machamp lead who I hate with a passion. Really powerful attacks are common in Ubers, but not in the lead position, which means Machamp can still spam Dynamicpunch and do what it normally does in OU but in Ubers.
 

firecape

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Machamp seems like an awsome leads for Ubers, I ran some Calcs, the standard OU Machamp anti-lead always survives 252 SpA Modest Draco Meteor and Surf in the Rain from Dialga and Kyogre respectively. With a spread of 252 HP/ 140 SpD, it can always survive Mixquaza's LO Draco Meteor. However, it is better to use 252 HP /252 Atk, because you need around 210 Atk EVs to always KO 252/0 Deoxys-S with Payback + BP. (I'm going to test it, and later on edit this post with more details).
 
for armaldo, it definitely works but its main problem is it cant get past Giratina-O. due to that, it generally wont be able to spin on spikes stacking/stall teams which always pack G-O. seems like a cool though.

for machamp, i thought about the idea before actually and it looks promising but it sort of seems outclassed by Lead Hariyama in Ubers. it does have some perks though with its 50% confusion rate. but a guts CC/lowkick hurts a lot more than a dpunch from champ.
 
I've used a lead celebi that is similar to the one on site but has some major differences -

Celebi @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/4 Spd/36 SAtk/64 SDef
Rash/Mild
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

This set is better than the one currently running because it can always 2HKO standard leadogre with grass knot, it can paralyze faster leads, u-turn + CB scizor's bullet punch guarantees a KO on 252HP deoxys-s and SR is always useful. 4Spd EVs outrun mew leads and survives leads like kyogre and groudon's ice beams, surfs and EQs better than mew leads. The lum berry allows it to u-turn darkrai and switch in a priority user and finish it off.
 

Manaphy

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I've used a lead celebi that is similar to the one on site but has some major differences -

Celebi @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/4 Spd/36 SAtk/64 SDef
Rash/Mild
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

This set is better than the one currently running because it can always 2HKO standard leadogre with grass knot, it can paralyze faster leads, u-turn + CB scizor's bullet punch guarantees a KO on 252HP deoxys-s and SR is always useful. 4Spd EVs outrun mew leads and survives leads like kyogre and groudon's ice beams, surfs and EQs better than mew leads. The lum berry allows it to u-turn darkrai and switch in a priority user and finish it off.
That.... actually looks like a Solid Lead.


Mind = Blown.
 
It took a painstaking amount of effort to figure out everything and put it together. Any extra criticism or a better EV spread/nature?
 

shrang

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Does it actually 2HKO 252/0 Deoxys-S?? IIRC, Mew's 184 Atk Adamant U-Turn didn't always 2HKO with Bullet Punch, or maybe that might be because my Scizor used LO...

Just watch out for Signal Beaming Deoxys-S
 

Ice-eyes

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With max Attack Scizor, you have to have a second Steel-type.

I don't see what that Celebi set is doing that Mew isn't - the water resist is nice, but in return Forry sets up all over you, you can't Taunt the likes of Groudon and you don't get to Explode. Mew does fine against slow Ogre anyway and Celebi doesn't beat Choice ones - both beat Groudon.

Celebi advantages:
-Option to get SR up and die vs. Kyogre / 2HKO slow variants and survive (while not getting SR up)
-Gets SR up and doesn't die vs. Groudon.

Mew advantages:
-Taunt lets it stop Groudon from setting up Stealth Rock and prevents Forretress from shitting all over you.
-Not weak to Fire Blast so beats Sashed Ray (iirc DM doesn't 2HKO) and makes LO ones drop their SpA.
-Explosion lets you smash through slower leads that only 2HKO, like Ogre / Groudon, and still survive - plus gives you more midgame utility.
-Stronger U-Turn because Adamant.

Oh, and I run enough speed to outrun RP Groudon and Dialga that do the same.
 

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