Gen 1 Poliwhirl (NU Mini) [QC 2/2] [GP 1/1]

[phoopes]

Taken over from pac, will edit in the comments from the previous thread soon

[OVERVIEW]

Poliwhirl is the fastest Water-type in RBY NU, which, combined with being tied with Venomoth for fastest sleeper, makes it a strong threat in the tier. The combination of Hypnosis, Amnesia, and Water typing compresses incredible, unique offensive utility. Putting Pokemon to sleep lets Poliwhirl set up Amnesia when the time is right, vastly improving its mediocre Special and immediately threatening to punch holes in the opposing team. Sleep + setup often allows it to go "two for one" against an opponent, effectively KOing foes all on its own. This strategy makes Poliwhirl a strong lead choice, as it can quickly swing momentum in your favor. However, using Poliwhirl mid- to late-game against Pokemon that are slower than it, like Nidoking, has been shown to be arguably even more effective.

Nevertheless, Poliwhirl faces a few key issues in RBY NU. Poliwhirl's reliance on its Speed means that Thunder Wave users like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and especially Electrode often force it out, the latter boasting STAB Thunderbolt and a high critical hit rate. Also, using Poliwhirl as a primary defensive Water-type is unwise: its lack of bulk means it falls quickly to neutral or even resisted attacks. Poliwhirl's typing is both a blessing and a curse, as while it combats the numerous Fire- and Ground-types of the tier effectively, it struggles versus tier staple Blastoise, especially if lacking Psychic, which has a bevy of ways to annoy or even outright beat Poliwhirl. Also, Exeggcute can threaten Poliwhirl with paralysis or sleep of its own, especially if it lacks Blizzard. Since Hypnosis and Amnesia take two moveslots, Poliwhirl is forced to choose between being walled by Exeggcute, being walled by Blastoise, or forgoing a STAB move.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sleeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Blizzard / Surf / Hydro Pump

[SET COMMENTS]

Hypnosis is Poliwhirl's claim to fame, allowing it to quickly gain momentum and to potentially set up Amnesia freely. Psychic is Poliwhirl's best option versus opposing Water-types like Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both of them an Amnesia and possibly doing more with Special drops. For the final moveslot, Blizzard allows Poliwhirl to threaten Exeggcute, Dragonair, and Fearow much more effectively, having chances to OHKO all at +2, while also wielding a chance to freeze. Without a STAB move, however, Poliwhirl notably does not KO Mr. Mime at +2 Special. Thus, as an alternative, Surf can be used to reliably 2HKO or OHKO every Fire- and Ground-type, as well as 2HKOing Mr. Mime after Amnesia. Hydro Pump can also be used, as it turns 2HKOs versus the likes of Charizard, Ninetales, Arcanine, and Nidoking into OHKOs, albeit at the cost of accuracy. Generally, Psychic and Blizzard are the best options for when Poliwhirl is used as a lead, whereas a STAB move is usually only necessary outside this role.

While Poliwhirl has other options, they are typically very difficult to fit into its moveset. The most usable option is Counter, as it can do serious damage to Slash Charizard or Seismic Toss Blastoise, for example. In a lead situation against Charizard, a countered Slash allows Blizzard to KO it thereafter almost every time, providing significant early-game momentum. Rest Poliwhirl can exploit Fire Spin users like Moltres and Rapidash for sleep turns, though due to the fast-paced nature of NU, it can be hard to pull off a Rest at times. Seismic Toss can be used over a coverage move as a midground option for Blastoise and Exeggcute, hitting both for decent damage instead of picking one or the other to hit hard. Finally, Ice Beam could be used over Blizzard for more consistency, but the damage output from Blizzard usually outweighs its lower accuracy.

Poliwhirl finds itself most effective alongside tier staples such as Mr. Mime. For example, Mr. Mime can spread status and weaken opposing Mr. Mime, which often paralyze Poliwhirl. It a.lso has a strong Thunderbolt to threaten opposing Blastoise, which can annoy Poliwhirl with status, either through Body Slam paralysis or Toxic. In return, Poliwhirl deals with Golem well, which Mr. Mime has a less-than-ideal matchup against. Electrode also makes for a good partner for similar reasons to Mr. Mime. Clefable is great to absorb status that would cripple Poliwhirl and fight back by spreading its own status with Thunder Wave. Finally, Water-spam team archetypes that include Poliwhirl alongside Blastoise, Seadra, or both have also seen success.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[pac, 520967], [phoopes, 97316]]
- Quality checked by: [[Enigami, 233818], [May, 236353]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]

 

[phoopes]

This is ready for QC now! Definitely needs some work but the goal was to just get it into a QC-able state to start after a few months in WIP hell lol

 

[Enigami]

it leaves it struggling versus other relevant Water-type Pokemon like Blastoise and Seadra. Blastoise is especially threatening, as it will sometimes carry Toxic, a move that will chip Poliwhirl down and force it out before it can KO Blastoise. In addition to this, a poisoned Poliwhirl will be more susceptible to chip damage from Fire Spin, mitigating some of its most precious defensive utility. Alternatively, Blastoise will use Body Slam, which potentially feeds into Poliwhirl's distaste for paralysis. Seismic Toss or even Hyper Beam Blastoise can also threaten to KO Poliwhirl before Poliwhirl can KO it.

Seadra isn't a concern unless it runs Toxic or Smokescreen, Agility+Rest+2 Attacks variants can't really do enough to Poliwhirl to be threatening.

Even more options, such as Toxic, Body Slam, Submission, or Earthquake can be considered, but generally sticking to the standard set is the best.

Why can they be considered? Why is sticking to the standard set the best? These moves need to be expanded on for why you'd use them and why they aren't standard.

a good lead choice could be Charizard, one of the strongest Pokemon and leads in the tier, as a way to break your opponent's team early.

I'd change this a bit, instead mentioning faster than 90 Base Speed anti-leads instead of just Charizard. Primeape, Raticate, Arcanine, Fearow and Ninetales are all feasible alternatives to Charizard that preserves Charizard while also making progress (usually) without creating sleep blockers that annoy Poliwhirl when it wants to put something to sleep and setup later in the match.

 

[phoopes]

Seadra isn't a concern unless it runs Toxic or Smokescreen, Agility+Rest+2 Attacks variants can't really do enough to Poliwhirl to be threatening.

Removed Seadra and reworded the part with Blastoise to make more sense (to me anyway).

Why can they be considered? Why is sticking to the standard set the best? These moves need to be expanded on for why you'd use them and why they aren't standard.

Good point on stuff leftover from the old draft. I kept Toxic since that one was easiest to justify but cut the physical moves because like... yeah I would probably never run any of them.

I'd change this a bit, instead mentioning faster than 90 Base Speed anti-leads instead of just Charizard. Primeape, Raticate, Arcanine, Fearow and Ninetales are all feasible alternatives to Charizard that preserves Charizard while also making progress (usually) without creating sleep blockers that annoy Poliwhirl when it wants to put something to sleep and setup later in the match.

Done.

 

[Enigami]

...as well as Primeape, Fearow, Arcanine, Ninetales, or Rapidash.

If you're going to list them all individually, why did you remove the Raticate mention?

Aside fom that, looks good.

QC: 1/2

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

View attachment 399546
Taken over from pac, will edit in the comments from the previous thread soon

[OVERVIEW]

Poliwhirl establishes a niche in the metagame as the fastest Water-type Pokemon in the tier, while also being tied for the fastest user of a Sleep-inducing move with Venomoth. This grants it unique opportunities for role compression, as the combination of Hypnosis, Amnesia, and Water-typing provides incredible offensive utility. Putting a Pokemon to sleep and then setting up Amnesia at the right time allows Poliwhirl to vastly improve its mediocre special and immediately become a threat to punch holes in the opposing team. This often allows it to go "two for one" against an opponent, effectively KOing two opposing Pokemon all on its own. This strategy makes Poliwhirl a strong lead choice, as it can quickly turn momentum in your favor. However, using Poliwhirl in the mid- to late- game against Pokemon that are slower than it, like Nidoking, can also be an effective strategy.

Though it does have many positive traits, Poliwhirl faces a few key issues in RBY NU. Poliwhirl's reliance on its Speed means that its often forced out versus users of Thunder Wave like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and especially Electrode due to its STAB Thunderbolt and high critical hit rate. Poliwhirl's typing and coverage is both a blessing and a curse, as while it allows it to combat the numerous Fire- and Ground-types of the tier like effectively, it leaves it struggling versus tier staple Blastoise, which has a bevy of ways to annoy or even outright beat Poliwhirl Comment 1. Blastoise will sometimes carry Toxic, a move that will chip Poliwhirl down and force it out before it can KO Blastoise. In addition to this, a poisoned Poliwhirl will be more susceptible to chip damage from Fire Spin, mitigating some of its most precious defensive utility. Alternatively, Blastoise will use Body Slam, which potentially feeds into Poliwhirl's distaste for paralysis. Seismic Toss or even Hyper Beam Blastoise can also threaten to KO Poliwhirl before Poliwhirl can KO it. Comment 2

1. It should be noted here probably that using Poliwhirl as a primary defensive water similar to how you would use blastoise or even switch something like Kabutops, Seadra or Kingler into attacks (well physical with kingler) is not as effective due to its poor bulk. For example Poliwhirl takes 34% min from Moltres fire blast meaning that crit blast into blast/beam actually KOs whirl. It cant contest SD Zard since if you switch in on SD it just gets 2hkoed by EQ or OHKOed by +4 beam, it would only be ok if you didnt get your sleep off or charizard was chipped significantly since surf doesnt 2hko.

2. Think it should also be noted here that Poliwhirl has a bit of an issue with 4MSS, specifically its forced to run water stab, Psychic for Blastoise and amnesia is mandatory, hypnosis is nearly always the best slot but youd also in an ideal world want to run blizzard for exeggcute, which allows egg to switch in vs. poliwhirl a lot of the time and just para it or get off the sleep or boom.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sleeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 4: Psychic / Blizzard

[SET COMMENTS]

Hypnosis is Poliwhirl's claim to fame, allowing it to quickly gain momentum as well as provide free opportunities to potentially set up Amnesia. Surf is Poliwhirl's most consistent STAB option, threatening a 2HKO or better to every Fire- and Ground-type in the tier after a single boost with Amnesia. Alternatively, Hydro Pump is able to turn some of these 2HKOs versus the likes of Rapidash, Arcanine, and Nidoking into OHKOs Comment 3, albeit at the cost of accuracy. Psychic is Poliwhirl's best option versus opposing Water-types like Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both of them after an Amnesia boost while possibly doing more with Special drops. As a different option, Blizzard allows Poliwhirl to threaten Exeggcute, Dragonair, and Fearow much more effectively, having chances to OHKO all of them while also wielding a chance to Freeze. However due to Blastoise being the main counter to Poliwhirl, Psychic is generally the more effective option.

3. It turns charizard into an ohko from 2hko too

While Poliwhirl has other options, it is typically hard to utilize them due to it being very difficult to fit into its moveset. The most usable option is Counter, as it can do serious damage to Slash Charizard or Seismic Toss Blastoise, for example. Rest grants Poliwhirl longevity, with the prevalence of Fire Spin users such as Rapidash and Moltres granting it situations to burn sleep turns. Toxic is another option for teams that try to take advantage of this status plus Fire Spin for good damage over time, but this strategy is more inconsistent than the standard set Comment 4.

4. More of an aside than something to add, Pre Stoss blastoise when you had surf ice beam bslam rest blastoise you used to be able to run Substitute since only top roll or crit would break sub. Now tho all viable blastoises are ready for this though if the meta was to turn back to no stoss this is an option

Blastoise Body Slam vs. Poliwhirl: 71-84 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

Poliwhirl finds itself used most effectively alongside tier staples such as Mr. Mime. For example, Mr. Mime is able to spread status and weaken opposing Mr. Mime, which often pose a problem for Poliwhirl. It can also threaten opposing Blastoise with its strong Thunderbolt. On the other side, Poliwhirl complements Mr. Mime in that it deals with Golem well, who Mr. Mime has a less-than-ideal matchup against. Electrode also makes for a good partner for similar reasons to Mr. Mime. Clefable is a great partner for Poliwhirl as well, as it can absorb status that would cripple Poliwhirl and fight back by spreading its own status with Thunder Wave. If choosing to use Poliwhirl in a non-lead spot, a good lead choice could one of many Pokemon that outspeed the common Base 90 speeds in Venomoth, Poliwhirl, and Mr. Mime. These include Charizard, one of the top Pokemon in the tier, as well as Primeape, Fearow, Arcanine, Ninetales, or Rapidash. Finally, Water-spam team archetypes that include Poliwhirl alongside Blastoise and/or Seadra have also seen success.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[pac, 520967], [phoopes, 97316]]
- Quality checked by: [[name, id], [name, id]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

 

[phoopes]

If you're going to list them all individually, why did you remove the Raticate mention?

Aside fom that, looks good.

QC: 1/2

Because I forgot lmao, good catch.

Ika Ika Musume implemented your feedback!

 

[Plague von Karma]

I have some feedback to provide!
Add
Remove
Comments
(RH) = Remove Hyphen

bink

[OVERVIEW]

Poliwhirl establishes a niche in the metagame as the fastest Water-type Pokemon in the tier, while also being tied for the fastest user of a Sleep-inducing move with Venomoth. Poliwhirl is the fastest Water-type in RBY NU which, combined with being tied with Venomoth for fastest sleeper, makes it a strong threat in the tier. (I strongly recommend heavier wording along these lines, Poliwhirl's thing isn't just a niche, I'd wager it's A- Rank at worst, which reflects on the preliminary ranks. It's amazing.) This grants it unique opportunities for role compression, as the combination of Hypnosis, Amnesia, and Water-typing (RH) provides incredible offensive utility. Putting a Pokemon to sleep and then setting up Amnesia at the right time allows Poliwhirl to vastly improve its mediocre special and immediately become a threat to punch holes in the opposing team. This often allows it to go "two for one" against an opponent, effectively KOing two opposing Pokemon all on its own. (The uninitiated may assume Hypnosis is not part of this, but at the same time, it's probably killing 2 mons here anyway) This strategy makes Poliwhirl a strong lead choice, as it can quickly turn momentum in your favor. However, using Poliwhirl in the mid- to late- game against Pokemon that are slower than it, like Nidoking, can also be an effective strategy. (Lead Poliwhirl's win rate has actually been quite low in tournament play so far, it's when it's in the back that it appears to be strong. Both playstyles are workable, so maybe some kind of equaliser statement could help...maybe I'm nitpicking.)

Though it does have many positive traits, Poliwhirl faces a few key issues in RBY NU. Poliwhirl's reliance on its Speed means that its often forced out versus users of Thunder Wave like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and especially Electrode due to its STAB Thunderbolt and high critical hit rate. This means that using Poliwhirl as a primary defensive Water-type is unwise; its lack of bulk means it falls quickly to neutral or even resisted attacks. Poliwhirl's typing and coverage is both a blessing and a curse, as while it allows it to combat the numerous Fire- and Ground-types of the tier like effectively, it leaves it struggling versus tier staple Blastoise, which has a bevy of ways to annoy or even outright beat Poliwhirl. Blastoise will sometimes carry Toxic, a move that will chip Poliwhirl down and force it out before it can KO Blastoise. In addition to this, a poisoned Poliwhirl will be more susceptible to chip damage from Fire Spin, mitigating some of its most precious defensive utility. Alternatively, Blastoise will use Body Slam, which potentially feeds into Poliwhirl's distaste for paralysis. Seismic Toss or even Hyper Beam Blastoise can also threaten to KO Poliwhirl before Poliwhirl can KO it. This is why Poliwhirl typically runs Psychic, to be able to effective damage Blastoise at +2 Special, but this leave it susceptible to being walled by Exeggcute, which can threaten Poliwhirl with paralysis or sleep of its own. A Poliwhirl user is thus typically forced to choose between being walled by one of these two defensive centerpieces. (Is this much detail necessary for the overview? You say "a few issues" but this paragraph is longer than the previous one, as well as put "niche" at the beginning of the analysis, which deceptively undersells Poliwhirl's viability to me. I think "Blastoise walls Poliwhirl without Psychic and can use Toxic or Body Slam to status it, or force through with Seismic Toss or Hyper Beam..." and then move on to Exeggcute with brevity here, and then put the meat in set details. There just has to be a better way to do this.)

With all that being said, however, Poliwhirl still find itself as one of the top threats of NU. Its ability to put an opponent to sleep and follow up with powerful, Amnesia-boosted attacks is potentially a death sentence for an unprepared team, and as such it is one of NU's premiere Pokemon. (this seems cuttable as-is and I think GP would agree)

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sleeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 4: Psychic / Blizzard

[SET COMMENTS]

Hypnosis is Poliwhirl's claim to fame, allowing it to quickly gain momentum as well as and provide free opportunities to potentially set up Amnesia. Surf is Poliwhirl's most consistent STAB option, threatening a 2HKO or better to every Fire- and Ground-type in the tier after a single boost with Amnesia. Alternatively, Hydro Pump is able to turn some of these 2HKOs versus the likes of Rapidash, Arcanine, and Nidoking into OHKOs, albeit at the cost of accuracy. Psychic is Poliwhirl's best option versus opposing Water-types like Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both of them after an Amnesia boost while possibly doing more with Special drops. As a different option, Blizzard allows Poliwhirl to threaten Exeggcute, Dragonair, and Fearow much more effectively, having chances to OHKO all of them while also wielding a chance to freeze. However due to Blastoise being the main counter to Poliwhirl and far more common, Psychic is generally the more effective option. (I also prefer Psychic for being a midground tool, the Special drops can change a game state drastically.)

While Poliwhirl has other options, it is typically hard to utilize them due to it being very difficult to fit into its moveset. The most usable option is Counter, as it can do serious damage to Slash Charizard or Seismic Toss Blastoise, for example. In a lead situation against Charizard, a countered Slash allows Surf to KO it thereafter, providing significant early-game momentum. Rest grants Poliwhirl longevity, with the prevalence of Fire Spin users such as Rapidash and Moltres granting it situations to burn sleep turns. (These Pokemon are of about "average" usage right now, so maybe just saying "Rest allows Poliwhirl to exploit Fire Spin users like x, x, and x for sleep turns" works) Toxic is another option for teams that try to take advantage of this status plus Fire Spin for good damage over time, but this strategy is more inconsistent than the standard set. (I would sooner use Ice Beam, Seismic Toss, or even Body Slam. It's valid, but maybe these can be included too.)

Poliwhirl finds itself used most effectively alongside tier staples such as Mr. Mime. For example, Mr. Mime is able to spread status and weaken opposing Mr. Mime, which often pose a problem for Poliwhirl. It can also threaten opposing Blastoise with its strong Thunderbolt. On the other side, Poliwhirl complements Mr. Mime in that it deals with Golem well, who Mr. Mime has a less-than-ideal matchup against. Electrode also makes for a good partner for similar reasons to Mr. Mime. Clefable is a great partner for Poliwhirl as well, as it can absorb status that would cripple Poliwhirl and fight back by spreading its own status with Thunder Wave. If choosing to use Poliwhirl in a non-lead spot, a good lead choice could one of many Pokemon that outspeed the common Base 90 Speeds (ew ew ew "Speeds" feels so wrong can you formalise this) in Venomoth, Poliwhirl, and Mr. Mime. These include Charizard, one of the top Pokemon in the tier, as well as Primeape, Fearow, Raticate, Arcanine, Ninetales, or Rapidash. Finally, Water-spam team archetypes that include Poliwhirl alongside Blastoise and/or Seadra have also seen success.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[pac, 520967], [phoopes, 97316]]
- Quality checked by: [[name, id], [name, id]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

 

[phoopes]

You know the meme where it's like, "I put off a task that would take a couple minutes for two months"?

Well, here you go lol. Thanks for the feedback May! This is ready for QC #2

 

[juoean]

~ as ika said the most important roll for hydropump is the ohko on zard at +2. rapidash and arcanine are ok to mention too if u want but zard is the important one.
**edit:** rapidash should not be mentioned, as +2 surf is already 71% to ohko. but arcanine and ninetales can both be mentioned alongside zard if u want, none are ever ohkoed by +2 surf but are always ohkod by +2 hydro (except ninetales can survive +2 hydro on a min roll only)

~ ika has used blizz + psychic (dropping stab) effectively, i think it probably is an other option worth mentioning. ofc u lose the 2hko on mime, and damage output vs normals such as raticate.
i have used seismic toss instead of a coverage move (ie alongside hypnosis amnesia and stab), is better than setting up if u predict eg stoise and j gives more flexibility rather than being a one chance to setup amnesia mon, maybe worth an oo.

certainly both of these are better other options than toxic, which i have rly no idea what the niche of toxic poli could be, as for supporting fspin its not like kabutops is a poliwhirl check, and theres no need to toxic blastoise for spinners when u can just heavily weaken if not ko it.

 

[phoopes]

~ as ika said the most important roll for hydropump is the ohko on zard at +2. rapidash and arcanine are ok to mention too if u want but zard is the important one.

~ ika has used blizz + psychic (dropping stab) effectively, i think it probably is an other option worth mentioning. ofc u lose the 2hko on mime, and damage output vs normals such as raticate.
i have used seismic toss instead of a coverage move (ie alongside hypnosis amnesia and stab), is better than setting up if u predict eg stoise and j gives more flexibility rather than being a one chance to setup amnesia mon, maybe worth an oo.

certainly both of these are better other options than toxic, which i have rly no idea what the niche of toxic poli could be, as for supporting fspin its not like kabutops is a poliwhirl check, and theres no need to toxic blastoise for spinners when u can just heavily weaken if not ko it.

added the Charizard note, removed Toxic from OOs, added your bit about forgoing STAB as an option as well as Seismic Toss as an option

thanks!

EDIT: also fixed what you said in your edit

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

I actually think fwiw due to the standard Poliwhirl cycle at least from lead of Sleep -> Amnesia -> Opponent goes Blastoise, Water + Ice Coverage is unrealistic because you lose out on the special drops from repeated Psychics that can give the edge in the matchup. Therefore Blizzard should probably be slashed with Surf/Hydro Pump rather than Psychic. I've ran Blizzard Psychic a few times and I think it is the best combination if you are wanting to run Blizzard for Egg since it covers the main bases, ie. what happens after you get the sleep and prevents the counter sleep from Egg whilst still being able to fight Blastoise.

For back Whirl its probably easier to just navigate around since Egg will come in relatively early since Mime often gets in before back Whirl and therefore the matchup is not as important, with Back Whirl you definitely are gonna want Water Stab I think.

 

[phoopes]

I actually think fwiw due to the standard Poliwhirl cycle at least from lead of Sleep -> Amnesia -> Opponent goes Blastoise, Water + Ice Coverage is unrealistic because you lose out on the special drops from repeated Psychics that can give the edge in the matchup. Therefore Blizzard should probably be slashed with Surf/Hydro Pump rather than Psychic. I've ran Blizzard Psychic a few times and I think it is the best combination if you are wanting to run Blizzard for Egg since it covers the main bases, ie. what happens after you get the sleep and prevents the counter sleep from Egg whilst still being able to fight Blastoise.

For back Whirl its probably easier to just navigate around since Egg will come in relatively early since Mime often gets in before back Whirl and therefore the matchup is not as important, with Back Whirl you definitely are gonna want Water Stab I think.

Finally implemented this, thanks for your feedback!

 

[Plague von Karma]

QC 2/2

 

[phoopes]

Forgot to tag GP Team. Thanks!

 

[berry]

phoopes, post: 9088827, member: 96315

View attachment 399546
Taken over from pac, will edit in the comments from the previous thread soon

[OVERVIEW]

Poliwhirl is the fastest Water-type in RBY NU which, when combined with being tied with Venomoth for fastest sleeper, makes it a strong threat in the tier. This grants it unique opportunities for role compression, as the combination of Hypnosis, Amnesia, and Water typing provides incredible offensive utility. Putting a Pokemon to sleep and then setting up Amnesia at the right time allows Poliwhirl to vastly improve its mediocre special and immediately become a threat to punch holes in the opposing team. Putting an opposing Pokemon to sleep gives Poliwhirl a free turn to use Amnesia, vastly improving its mediocre Special and immediately becoming a threat to the opposing team. This often allows it to go "two for one" against an opponent, effectively KOing two opposing Pokemon all on its own. This strategy makes Poliwhirl a strong lead choice, as it can quickly generate momentum at the start of the match momentum in your favor. However, using Poliwhirl in the mid- to late- game late-game no space against Pokemon that are slower than it, like Nidoking, has been shown to be an arguably an even more effective strategy.

Though it does have many positive traits, Poliwhirl faces a few key issues in RBY NU. fluff Poliwhirl's reliance on its Speed means that its it is often forced out versus users of Thunder Wave users like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and especially Electrode, (ac) especially due to its STAB Thunderbolt and high critical hit rate. This means that using Poliwhirl as a primary defensive Water-type is unwise; its lack of bulk means it falls quickly to neutral or even resisted attacks. Poliwhirl's typing and coverage is both a blessing and a curse, as while it allows it to combat the numerous Fire- and Ground-types of the tier like no follow up effectively, it leaves it this is unclear, does its typing or coverage do this? struggling versus tier staple Blastoise, which has a bevy of ways to annoy or even outright beat Poliwhirl. < this whole sentence is generally funky, here is my best attempt to convey what I *think* you are trying to say: {{ "While Poliwhirl's typing and coverage allow it to effectively combat the Fire- and Ground-types of the tier, it struggles against Blastoise who can annoy or outright beat it with (Example 1)." }} This is why Poliwhirl typically runs Psychic lets Poliwhirl effectively , to be able to effective damage Blastoise at +2 Special, but this leave leaves it susceptible to being walled or statused by Exeggcute if it runs Water-type STAB in its last move slot, which can threaten Poliwhirl with paralysis or sleep of its own. A Poliwhirl user is thus forced to choose between being walled by Exeggcute, being walled by Blastoise, or forgoing Water-type STAB in order to hit both of these defensive centerpieces hard.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sleeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Blizzard / Surf / Hydro Pump

[SET COMMENTS]

Hypnosis is Poliwhirl's claim to fame, allowing it to quickly gain momentum and provide free opportunities to potentially set up Amnesia. Psychic is Poliwhirl's best option versus opposing Water-types like Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both of them after an Amnesia boost while possibly doing more with Special drops. Psychic 4HKOs Water-types like Blastoise and Seadra after an Amnesia boost, alongside potentially dropping their Special. For the final slot, Blizzard allows Poliwhirl to threaten Exeggcute, Dragonair, and Fearow much more effectively, having chances to OHKO all of them while also wielding a chance to Freeze. Without STAB, however, it is notable that Poliwhirl does not KO Mr. Mime at +2 Special. repeated in the next sentence? i tried structuring this a bit differently (also my calc says 94% chance to 2hko at +2 with surf, to me this made it seem like +2 surf ohkod. Thus, as As an alternative, Surf can be used as Poliwhirl's most consistent STAB option, threatening a 2HKO or better to on every Fire- and Ground-type in the tier, as well as Mr. Mime, after a single boost with Amnesia boost. Hydro Pump can also be used, as it is able to OHKO turn some of these 2HKOs versus the likes of Charizard, Ninetales, Arcanine, and Nidoking, (ac) into OHKOs, albeit at the cost of accuracy. Generally, Psychic and Blizzard are the best options for when Poliwhirl is used as a lead, whereas its Water-type STAB is usually only necessary when Poliwhirl it is not occupying the lead slot.

While Poliwhirl has other options, it is typically hard to utilize them due to it being very Poliwhirl's other options are difficult to fit into its moveset. The Its most usable option is Counter, as it can do serious damage to Slash Charizard or Seismic Toss Blastoise, for example. In a lead situation against Charizard, a countered Slash allows Blizzard to KO it thereafter almost every time, providing significant early-game momentum. Rest allows Poliwhirl to exploit Fire Spin users like Moltres and Rapidash for sleep turns, though it is usually too inconsistent due to the fast-paced nature of NU it can be hard to pull of a Rest at times. Seismic Toss can be used over a coverage move as a midground option against an opponent's Blastoise or Exeggcute, hitting both for decent damage instead of picking one or the other to hit hard. Finally, Ice Beam could be used over Blizzard for more consistency, but the higher damage output from on Blizzard usually outweighs its lower accuracy.

Poliwhirl finds itself used most effectively alongside tier staples such as Mr. Mime. For example, Mr. Mime is able to spread status and weaken opposing Mr. Mime, which often pose a problem for Poliwhirl. It can also threaten opposing Blastoise with its strong Thunderbolt, which can annoy Poliwhirl with status, either through Body Slam paralysis or Toxic. On the other side, Poliwhirl complements Mr. Mime in that it deals with by dealing with Golem well, who Mr. Mime has a less-than-ideal matchup against. Electrode also makes for a good partner for similar reasons to Mr. Mime. Clefable is a great partner for Poliwhirl as well, as it can absorb status that would cripple hinder Poliwhirl and fight back by spreading its own status with Thunder Wave.

If choosing to use Poliwhirl in a non-lead spot, alternative leads like Charizard, Primeape, Fearow, Raticate, Arcanine, Ninetales, and Rapidash are useful due to them outspeeding a good lead choice could one of many Pokemon that outspeed the common Base 90 Speed Pokemon in Venomoth, Poliwhirl, and Mr. Mime. These include Charizard, one of the top Pokemon in the tier, as well as Primeape, Fearow, Raticate, Arcanine, Ninetales, or Rapidash. Finally, Poliwhirl can be used in Water-spam team archetypes that include Poliwhirl alongside Blastoise and/or Seadra have also seen success.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[pac, 520967], [phoopes, 97316]]
- Quality checked by: [[Enigami, 233818], [May, 236353]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

amgp
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first amgp after a little break so i'd advise you to not implement until a full gp team member takes a look over it

 

[Adeleine]

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(AC): Add Comma

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[OVERVIEW]

Poliwhirl is the fastest Water-type in RBY NU, (AC) which, combined with being tied with Venomoth for fastest sleeper, makes it a strong threat in the tier. This grants it unique opportunities for role compression, as the The combination of Hypnosis, Amnesia, and Water typing provides compresses incredible, unique (optional) offensive utility. Putting a Pokemon to sleep and then setting up Amnesia at the right time allows Poliwhirl to vastly improve its mediocre special and immediately become a threat Pokemon to sleep lets Poliwhirl set up Amnesia when the time is right, vastly improving its mediocre Special and immediately threatening (change anything if needed) to punch holes in the opposing team. This Sleep + setup often allows it to go "two for one" against an opponent, effectively KOing two opposing Pokemon foes all on its own. This strategy makes Poliwhirl a strong lead choice, as it can quickly start the match swing momentum in your favor. However, using Poliwhirl in the mid- to late-game (removed space after hyphen) against Pokemon that are slower than it, like Nidoking, has been shown to be arguably an even more effective strategy. even more effective.

Though it does have many positive traits, Nevertheless, Poliwhirl faces a few key issues in RBY NU. Poliwhirl's reliance on its Speed means that its often forced out versus users of Thunder Wave users like Mr. Mime, Clefable, and especially Electrode due to its often force it out, the latter boasting STAB Thunderbolt and a high critical hit rate. This means that Also, using Poliwhirl as a primary defensive Water-type is unwise: (semicolon -> colon. former wasnt wrong per se but i think this is better) its lack of bulk means it falls quickly to neutral or even resisted attacks. Poliwhirl's typing and coverage (bc you dont give a blessing for coverage) is both a blessing and a curse, as while it allows it to combat combats the numerous Fire- and Ground-types of the tier like effectively, it leaves it struggling struggles versus tier staple Blastoise, especially if lacking Psychic, which has a bevy of ways to annoy or even outright beat Poliwhirl. This is why Poliwhirl typically runs Psychic, to be able to effective damage Blastoise at +2 Special, but this leave it susceptible to being walled by Exeggcute if it runs Water-type STAB in its last move slot, which Also, Exeggcute can threaten Poliwhirl with paralysis or sleep of its own. A Poliwhirl user is thus own, especially if it lacks Blizzard. Since Hypnosis and Amnesia take two moveslots, Poliwhirl is forced to choose between being walled by Exeggcute, being walled by Blastoise, or forgoing Water-type STAB in order to hit both of these defensive centerpieces hard. a STAB move.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sleeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Blizzard / Surf / Hydro Pump

[SET COMMENTS]

Hypnosis is Poliwhirl's claim to fame, allowing it to quickly gain momentum and provide free opportunities to potentially set up Amnesia freely. Psychic is Poliwhirl's best option versus opposing Water-types like Blastoise and Seadra, 4HKOing both of them after an Amnesia boost while Amnesia and possibly doing more with Special drops. For the final moveslot, Blizzard allows Poliwhirl to threaten Exeggcute, Dragonair, and Fearow much more effectively, having chances to OHKO all of them at +2, (I imagine?) while also wielding a chance to Freeze. freeze. Without a STAB move, however, it is notable that Poliwhirl notably does not KO Mr. Mime at +2 Special. (check berrys note re: the calc) Thus, as an alternative, Surf can be used as Poliwhirl's most consistent STAB option, threatening a 2HKO or better to every Fire- and Ground-type in the tier, as well as Mr. Mime, after a single boost with Amnesia. to reliably 2HKO or OHKO every Fire- and Ground-type, as well as 2HKOing Mr. Mime after Amnesia. (if u need amnesia to securely 2hko every fire/ground type, add comma after "Mime") Hydro Pump can also be used, as it is able to turn some of these turns 2HKOs versus the likes of Charizard, Ninetales, Arcanine, and Nidoking into OHKOs, albeit at the cost of accuracy. Generally, Psychic and Blizzard are the best options for when Poliwhirl is used as a lead, whereas its Water-type STAB a STAB move is usually only necessary when Poliwhirl is not occupying the lead slot. outside this role. (overview implies non-lead poli is a bit better; should water stab be bumped up in set order and in paragraph to match w that?)

While Poliwhirl has other options, it is typically hard to utilize them due to it being they are typically very difficult to fit into its moveset. The most usable option is Counter, as it can do serious damage to Slash Charizard or Seismic Toss Blastoise, for example. In a lead situation against Charizard, a countered Slash allows Blizzard to KO it thereafter almost every time, providing significant early-game momentum. Rest allows Poliwhirl to Poliwhirl can exploit Fire Spin users like Moltres and Rapidash for sleep turns, though due to the fast-paced nature of NU, (AC) it can be hard to pull of off a Rest at times. Seismic Toss can be used over a coverage move as a midground option against an opponent's Blastoise or Exeggcute, for Blastoise and Exeggcute, hitting both for decent damage instead of picking one or the other to hit hard. Finally, Ice Beam could be used over Blizzard for more consistency, but the damage output on from Blizzard usually outweighs its lower accuracy. (maybe worth mentioning a/some kos it gets that ice beam lacks? up2u)

Poliwhirl finds itself used most effectively most effective alongside tier staples such as Mr. Mime. For example, Mr. Mime is able to can spread status and weaken opposing Mr. Mime, which often pose a problem for Poliwhirl. (would like "... often paralyze Poliwhirl, take its hits, and/or hit it with Thunderbolt" work to be a bit more specific? changeable and up to you) It can also threaten opposing Blastoise with its strong Thunderbolt, also has a strong Thunderbolt to threaten opposing Blastoise, which can annoy Poliwhirl with status, either through Body Slam paralysis or Toxic. On the other side, Poliwhirl complements Mr. Mime in that it In return, Poliwrath deals with Golem well, who which Mr. Mime has a less-than-ideal matchup against. Electrode also makes for a good partner for similar reasons to Mr. Mime. Clefable is a great partner for Poliwhirl as well, as it can great to absorb status that would cripple Poliwhirl and fight back by spreading its own status with Thunder Wave. If choosing to use Poliwhirl in a non-lead spot, a good lead choice could one of many Pokemon that outspeed the common Base 90 Speed Pokemon in Venomoth, Poliwhirl, and Mr. Mime. These include Charizard, one of the top Pokemon in the tier, as well as Primeape, Fearow, Raticate, Arcanine, Ninetales, or Rapidash. (Unless I'm missing something, this seems pretty applicable to any team. if im missing smth u can lmk or we can talk tho) Finally, Water-spam team archetypes that include Poliwhirl alongside Blastoise and/or Seadra Blastoise, Seadra, or both (I imagine?) have also seen success.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[pac, 520967], [phoopes, 97316]]
- Quality checked by: [[Enigami, 233818], [May, 236353]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]

GP Team done

 

[phoopes]

Finally done and ready for upload! (just in time for this thing to most likely get banned lmao)

 

[phoopes]

Baby's first uploaded analysis (and I didn't even screw it up! (I think))