Policy Review Policy Review - Stat Ratings

[DougJustDoug]

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Currently the CAP project uses three parts of the Base Stats Ratings system, developed by X-Act, for creating limits to base stat spreads on CAP pokemon. We currently use the Offensive/Defensive Bias (ODB), the Physical/Special Bias (PSB), and the full Base Stat Rating (BSR) in the CAP stats spread process.

We have tried several different procedures for stat spreads, trying to make that part of the process more effective, and less boring. On every CAP, the project momentum usually lags considerably during the stat spread steps. The discussion isn't very active, and the results of the bias threads don't seem to help the stat spread creation process, as much as it should.

Currently the ODB and PSB limits don't allow us to fine tune our bias requirements at the level we need sometimes. For example, with Cyclohm we wanted it to be biased to Special Offense and Physical Defense. That basically means it is Balanced ODB and Balanced PSB. But we didn't really want the stats to be 90/90/90/90/90/90 -- we wanted some clear bias in the stats. But because of how ODB and PSB are "rolled together", it wasn't possible to express that by just using ODB and PSB.

Therefore I propose we use finer-grained stat ratings to create bias limits, and fortunately they are already part of X-Act's stat ratings system!

• Physical Tankiness (PT) - The rating of the pokemon's physical defense
• Physical Sweepiness (PS) - The rating of the pokemon's physical offense
• Special Tankiness (ST) - The rating of the pokemon's special defense
• Special Sweepiness (SS) - The rating of the pokemon's special offense

Here is a list of the specific bias ratings, lifted directly from X-Act's thread on Base Stat Ratings:

If PT/ST/PS/SS is     Stat is      Examples
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Less than 25        Horrible     Ralts (PT), Magikarp (ST), Shuckle (PS), <none> (SS)
    25 to 49            Bad        Shuppet (PT), Pikachu (ST), Smeargle (PS), Wooper (SS)
    50 to 74            Poor       Alakazam (PT), Swellow (ST), Probopass (PS), Bastiodon (SS)
    75 to 99       Below Average   Gengar (PT), Breloom (ST), Spiritomb (PS), Slowbro (SS)
   100 to 124      Above Average   Ludicolo (PT), Mamoswine (ST), Hariyama (PS), Tyranitar (SS)
   125 to 149           Good       Machamp (PT), Roserade (ST), Kingdra (PS), Flygon (SS)
   150 to 174         Very Good    Magnezone (PT), Heatran (ST), Metagross (PS), Rotom-A (SS)
   175 to 199         Excellent    Gliscor (PT), Vaporeon (ST), Heracross (PS), Charizard (SS)
   200 to 224         Fantastic    Tangrowth (PT), Milotic (ST), Electivire (PS), Porygon-Z (SS)
  More than 224        Amazing     Steelix (PT), Snorlax (ST), Weavile (PS), Espeon (SS)

I think we should have a single thread to discuss the four specific biases and the total BSR limit. We will not use ODB and PSB any longer. At the conclusion of that thread, the TL should post all the limits and close the thread. After that, the stat spread creators can go to work making spreads that conform to the limits.

I would also like to update the process guide to give some guidance to the community and Topic Leader on how to judge the proper BSR for a given CAP project. To make a good pokemon, you need a combination of typing, ability, stats, and movepool. Depending on the concept, we really need to evaluate how much the overall stats rating is important to pulling off a concept.

For example, if you give a pokemon great typing (like Revenanh with Fighting/Ghost), then it is far less important for it to have monstrous stats to be effective. If you give a pokemon limited abilities (like the original Pyroak) then perhaps you want to use stats to help take up the slack. Or maybe not, maybe you want to give it a great movepool, and shitty stats -- I don't know. The point is -- the community needs to figure out how stats should play into the overall direction of the pokemon, and then set the BSR limit accordingly.

I feel like, right now, the community treats the BSR as an "island" part of the process -- as if we are simply asking "Do we want this to be a good pokemon or not? If yes, then you must choose Excellent or better for the BSR." When that really isn't true. BSR is not a complete throwaway step, it should be used more strategically than it has been in the past. I think we can do better, and the Process Guide should go a little further to explain this.

 

[Deck Knight]

You mean I'll actually have to be more wonkish with my stat spreads now?

One of the weaknesses of further specification is that it makes every stat spread a clone of the other, or otherwise the most monstrous stats win. Under our current system people can interpret "Biased towards special and defense" to mean high SpA and high Def (eg Cyclohm).

Under the more specified system, we would be basically be choosing each category and limiting the spread ideas to four carbon copies. The only real differences would be whether you want Dusknoir-type HP/Defenses (superior for Leech Seed users and other draining-style recovery) or Hariyama-type HP/Defenses (high Lefties healing, takes SToss better).

It runs the same with offensive stats, running into debates between high-offense mid speed (Tyranitar) or high-speed mid-offense (Infernape).

There's still some room for debate, but it centralizes it among HP and Speed, the productive factors for determining defensive/offensive prowess.

I'd be concerned about using each specific tier as an individual point, but I think separating it into 3 "tiers" (Bad [25-99], Average[100-174], and Good[175+]) would make it easier.

 

[DougJustDoug]

I didn't expect much discussion on this one, so I'll close this now.

Conclusion
We will update the Process Guide to have a single step for discussing Stat Bias, and we will use the four bias ratings (PT, PS, ST, SS) for setting bias limits. The exact ranges of the bias limits will be determined at the time we update the guide, but we will likely use groupings similar to the ones we currently use for PSB and ODB.