Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon In-Game Tier list (v2)

Apologies for the double post, but I got logs for Marowak and Lurantis. On that note, does anyone have any knowledge of the Totem AI? Totem Marowak's Detect usage confuses me. When I tested Flareon it seemed like it was reading all my moves but against Oricorio it just let me set up.

Against regular trainers, it's still OHKOing, so all good on that front. Really, relying on Z-moves in the field isn't too bad at this point since everyone only has like 1 or 2 mons, and iirc that doesn't change for a good while. I wouldn't hold that against a mon.
Fire Trial (Lv. 24): It OHKOs both the first Maro and the Magmar as long as it hits Crunch. Expert Belt Crunch almost OHKOs the totem before it blows you away BUT you need a really good Speed IV or a positive nature to outspeed. My Raticate has a neutral nature and a perfect IV and it had 52 speed iirc. If you outspeed it's a decent matchup, if not it's absolutely terrible.
Totem Lurantis (Lv. 27) You get outsped and take over half from Solar Blade while Z-Last Resort nearly OHKOs. Plants aren't smart, however, so it charges up another Solar Blade the next turn so as long as you hit the next attack you're golden. If you still have Quick Attack that works to give you a couple tries. Good if not 100% consistent matchup.

Hariyama is noticeably stronger than Makuhita. It takes fairly little from most attacks and one-shots a lot.
Fire Trial (Lv. 24): You OHKO Marowak and don't really care about what Magmar does to you unless it haxes you a ton. +2 Knock Off will kill the Totem and you need to be under 66% to be in danger against it and Salazzle's attacks, so you should be fine. If for some reason you don't want to set up Knock Off still will do about 66% and halve the Totem's attack, so you've basically killed it.
Grass Trial (Lv. 26): Solar Blade isn't a 2HKO and sun-boosted Z-Fire Punch one shots. I didn't test +1 Z-Punch but if that works then even better. Still, barring crits this is a good matchup.

The limited coverage kinda sucks, but it levels fast so it doesn't need to fight anything it doesn't want to and Giga Drain is still strong in the field.
Fire Trial (Lv. 24): No. You probably lose to the first Marowak when Cursed Body disables Giga Drain.
Grass Trial (Lv. 27): Also not good. You start out taking only 25% from X-Scissor (although, again, mine is +Defence, so YMMV) but once you get Screeched by Kekleon you're pretty much dead. The best you can manage is a +1 Breakneck Blitz through Take Down and that only does about half.

See Rattata's entry for it's field performance.
Fire Trial (Lv. 23 > 24 for the totem): SSSS is a roll for the first two, but they don't do too much to you. Against the totem, you have a couple options. You can either Air Cutter > SSSS or Work Up > SSSS for about 60-70%, or you can Feather Dance and then SSSS so whatever comes in afterwards can safely fight it. You don't win 1v1 but you deal significant damage to it. Feather Dance doesn't mean you can 1v1 it, by the way, since Poison Gas > Hex hurts a lot. And like I said, it always just let me set up turn 1 by detecting.
Grass Trial (Lv. 26): +1 SSSS kills and it doesn't kill you back. Not much to say.

It still does well on the field, especially with Firium Z to OHKO neutral targets.
Fire Trial (Lv. 23 > Lv. 24 for totem): You beat the first two but might take some damage in the process. Against the totem, I had a weird experience as I mentioned. When I tried to Z-Work Up turn 1, it would always Brick Break and 2HKO me before I could attack. But when I Bite turn 1, it Detects. In theory you can deal over half with +2 Bite, but the best I managed was about 30-40% with one.
Grass Trial (Lv. 26): You don't take much from Solar Blade and sun-boosed Z-Fire Fang kills. Easy win.
 

stuart littled.

Banned deucer.
Hello why is aerodactyl rate so low he is fery fast and powerful so I thik we might reconsider. He also learn many TMS. Thsnkyou.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Hello why is aerodactyl rate so low he is fery fast and powerful so I thik we might reconsider. He also learn many TMS. Thsnkyou.
Hello, the reason why I (preliminarily) put Aerodactyl so low is because of few reasons:

1) it comes extremely late (Seafolk Village, Poni Island), so it has more or less skipped a huge part of the game
2) it also comes very underleveled (level 40) and is in the Slow exp. group, meaning that it will have a hard time catching up with your team. For reference, the Lapras I used last time was caught at the highest level possible and barely made it to level 53 for Kommo-o (in spite of all the Exp. I poured in it)
3) I can barely see it contributing much with that typing. Its only type advantageous matchups are Kommo-o, Ribombee, and Kahili, although I doubt that most of them will be clean matchups either.

With that said, Aerodactyl is on the team of one of my ten runs I am doing right now and I would be happy to give it a rise in tier if it turns out to be better than I give it credit for. As I said in a previous post, I am hoping to get those done this month.
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Just completed my run of Ultra Sun. First time playthrough (I know I'm like super late but I lost interest in mons when the game came out and only recently got back into it) since I restarted at the Ghost trial. I used this list to decide some of my team members. Figured I'd post some thoughts on my team, which consisted of the following:

Primarina
Magnezone
Mudsdale
Braviary
Metagross
Garchomp

Obviously, this team wasn't made for efficiency, as the latter three are pretty meh for a chunk of the game, but I like the mons and wanted to use them in a play through since they were available and god dammit this is America I do what I want.

Anyways, the first three carried me for a good chunk of the game.

Popplio was decent early game and despite being a special attacker, Aqua Jet was a nice priority move to keep throughout the game to finish off KOes without taking damage. Upon evolution to its latter two stages, it kept getting better and better, with Primarina putting in a ton of work mid to late game once it got the Z Crystal and Moonblast. It had a decent match-up in most trainer fights and was able to contribute every time I sent it out, even if it didn't necessarily have the type match-up. There were a lot of battles where I didn't have to send it out since the other members of my team covered everything, but if I was in a pinch it pulled through. On top of that it's Z move made a lot of battles easy to cheese through, as it basically guaranteed an OHKO on any non resist or super bulky mon. I think A is fair for it but it's definitely better than Rowlet, which I struggled with in my initial playthrough (I ended up restarting the game at the ghost trial since that's where I left off years ago, and I distinctly remember Rowlet not being that good in any of the battles it was in), and while I never used Incineroar in US, I used it in Moon and it was decent, but not great. Like I said, A is fair, but probably one of the best and might be on that line for S rank, and it's definitely the best performing starter in my opinion.

Magnemite was also very strong for me, as it's a much better early game Electric type over Grubbin/Chargabug due to actually having good attacking stats and a great typing. Evolving into Magnezone by about level 30ish (I don't remember the exact level, but it was my first 3rd stage Evo and quite early into my playthrough) made it easy to breeze through a lot of the trainers I faced and having a good Z Electric or steel mid game almost always guaranteed a kill when I needed it. I think it's main downside is that it's speed is pretty underwhelming, so it almost always had to attack 2nd. However, it's defensive typing is really good and it's defensive stats made most moves only 3HKOes, so it could 1v1 most mons from full. Like primarina, definitely deserving of A imo

Mudbray/Mudsdale was OP af with Stamina lol. It started out a bit slow but around level 25 or so it picked up. Wasn't even planning on keeping it on the team but it was so good I had to. Once it evolved into Mudsdale, it was insane with Stamina. Not much to say, it cheesed through a lot of battles and it got to the point where I would only bring it out against really tough opponents, because it made the game a little too easy for my liking. Not a lot of coverage moves, but you don't need them when it can 1v4/5/6 a good chunk of the trainers in the game. Easy S rank, and probably the best one.

I caught a Rufflet early on because I wanted Murica Bird on my team even though it evolves at level..... 54..... Is that worth it? Absolutely not. But Murica Bird is my favorite flying type so I had to at least try. This meant it sat on the sidelines until the E4 aside from a select few match ups or to finish off a kill. Don't use this mon. It's basically heal fodder because while it's okay early game, once you start facing evolved mons it is super lacking in speed, bulk, and attacking power, which leaves much to be desired. As a Braviary it did what you'd expect from a flying type, and it's stronger than most, but it's so late in the game it doesn't make up for how bad it was early/mid game. For some reason it's listed in C tier, but honestly it's a lot closer to D/E unless there's something I'm missing. It's honestly really bad, and while I love Braviary, I won't ever use it on a playthrough again. It's just not worth it.

I don't see Beldum/Metang/Metagross anywhere, but it did surprisingly well for me. It's useless until evolved into Metang, but Metang had some decent match-ups mid game where it put in work. It did fine in the level 20-30 range but started to fall off once most mons you faced were 3rd stage Evos. At that point it definitely was on the sidelines for me until evolution. I was afraid level 45 would be too high for metang to justify a slot on the team (especially alongside a Rufflet and Gabite lol), but I was able to use 3 Rare Candies to make it into Metagross. And that's when it really shines. Metagross has insane stats for a playthough, as well as powerful moves and a great typing. Once evolved, Metagross was the star of my team, breezing through most trainers I faced and it put in a ton of work at the Foundation, Fairy trial, and E4. Z Steel was busted every time I used it and Steel/Psychic/Fighting coverage was all it needed (I had takedown as 4th move lol as I only used Meteor Mash/Zen Headbutt/Hammer Arm in all its battles and EQ is unfortunately a post game TM) and was my strongest mon. Like Mudsdale, it got to the point where I sidelined it on purpose because it made the game a bit too easy. Honestly it's only downside as a Metagross is that it's moves missed more than they should have. I don't see it ranked anywhere, but I think B is a good starting point. It's available early on, but doesn't contribute until it's evolved into Metang. From there, it's decent until about level 30/35, but lags behind until it becomes a Metagross. But once it's a Metagross it's insane how easy the game becomes.

Last mon on my team was Garchomp. Originally it was Tyrunt but when I faced a Gible I looked up how to catch it because I've been wanting to use Grachomp in a playthrough since Cynthia's 6-0ed my team in Diamond during my first playthrough. Catching Gabite was an absolute pain, as I had to catch 3 as the first 2 were bold and I reeeeally didn't want it's best stat to be hindered when I knew it would take forever to evolve. This took about an hour to do. For most of the game it only game out on a few select battles, as Gabite is pretty underwhelming, especially since it doesn't get EQ at all and Dig isn't available early on. It was okay in the lvl 30-35 range but like Metang, really fell off until evolution. Once it evolved and got Dig, Garchomp was quite solid. Not as good as Metagross and Primarina (not to mention the OP Mudsdale), but it's typing and stats definitely allowed it to be a solid contributor to the team. I'd say it even outshined Magnezone as tended to have more favorable marchups against more opponents. It excelled in the E4, and would have been the star had it not been for Metagross. Z Dragon/Ground/Dark (I changed the crystal depending on the battle) were pretty much guaranteed kills, and Garchomps speed meant it was usually KOing it's opponent with them before they even moved. I think F tier is a bit unfair. I understand that it's a bitch to catch and kinda underwhelming around levels 35-47, but Garchomp is honestly pretty good late game. I think its a C rank mon. It's a mon that should only be used if you're a Garchomp fan like me, but it's passable up to level 35 and is really good late game.

Overall, my playthough took a little over 26 hours. The cutscenes were miserable but the gameplay was fun and the selection of Pokémon allowed me to use some of my favorites. My team was by no means the most optimal, but a couple of my favorites were able to pull through and put in some work.

TL;DR based on my experience:

:Primarina: A/S
:Magnezone: A
:Mudsdale: S++
:Braviary: D/E
:Metagross: B
:Garchomp: C
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Beldum is supposed to be in C-tier, not sure why it wasn't there, I must have deleted it accidentally when updating OP.

Anyways, to go over your nominations

Can't say I have much experience with Popplio (it's the only starter I haven't tested thoroughly, I probably should do that at some point), I mostly put it in A out of consensus. For S-tier, I'd need someone else that has used it more thoroughly to bless me with more information on its performance, although as you say, the general consensus is that it's the best starter in USUM. Alternatively, I would need to use it myself, but I'd like to give other people the chance of deciding its tier.

Magnemite
Glad you agree with A-tier! I think you raise a good point with the Speed, it definitely was one of Magnemite's weak points when it came to earlier major battles, as it often meant that they can 2HKO it first (or whatever the NHKO would be), rather than the other way around

Mudbray/Mudsdale
also glad you agree with its current rank. It can cheese through a few fights with Counter and Highhorse Power so early is insane. I think only Akala Totems ever give it a trouble and once you get past Lurantis, it's more or less a juggernaut that is pretty hard to stop. One person here had a run going with it, but they have yet to finish it, so this is only from my experience, unfortunately, though I know that some people consider Mudbray to be one of the best Pokemon in USUM

the idea behind C-tier was that Rufflet was reasonably good early-mid-game (having a type advantage against Hala, Lurantis, and Araquanid) and having a somewhat good end-game performance once it evolves into Braviary. With that said, I know some other people outside of Smogon that didn't really agree with C-tier either when I showed them the list, so what I am going to do is slate Rufflet to D

I don't see Beldum/Metang/Metagross
so as I said above, its "original rank" is C-tier, I just have screwed up and removed the rank accidentally. Anyways, I am a bit hesitant about calling this a B-tier. Ula'Ula availability is rather late (I'd call this moreso late-game rather than mid-game, but that's my opinion) and Beldum has a catch rate of... 3. And while Roto Catch does solve the issue a bit, Take Down as its only move means it will be hard to maintain it at low HP without KOing itself (unless you are running a Ghost-type, which you may not), so you are still gonna be spending more time catching a Beldum than your average Pokemon.

Anyways, the issues don't stop here; as you said, Beldum is rather useless (though it will evolve quickly into a Metang, since it's only a few levels away), but I wouldn't say that Metang is a great improvement either, at least against major battles. Eviolite does let it tank hits from some opponents, but it's not really doing much damage to them in return. It's really only impressive once it evolves into a Metagross, which you are achieving at best for Guzma #2 or Nanu, depending on how you play. And trust me, I know that it's incredibly good, that thing can wall Ultra Necrozma, set up Roto Boosts, and then deal with it. My concerns are mostly over its availability (both somewhat late and hard to capture) and the fact you are getting high-tier performance around the end of Ula'Ula. I'd like someone else to use this more thoroughly (or provide some detailed feedback) before I move it to B-tier.

Last mon on my team was Garchomp
I will slate Gabite for D-tier. I said in an earlier post that I would slate for E-tier for now, but given that Gabite is getting a lot of support, I am going to give it one more rank rise. I am hesitant about giving it anything higher, given not only that its availability is completely atrocious, but another user in the thread earlier nominated it to D-tier, so I'd rather go with D-tier, as I find it more appropriate than C.

As a side note, I probably should push Golett to D at this point for consistency, but I have a run going with it and I'd rather first finish it before I jump into moving things based on theorymonning.

===

Anyways, I found your post very great and insightful, so thank you for that! Here's a tl;dr of the verdicts that I am going with thanks to it:

- Rufflet is going to drop from C to D when I create the slate

- Gabite will rise from F to D when I create the slate

- Magnemite will be put "on a watch". This means that if its rank is not contested after some time passes, I may remove its asterisk (thus seal its placement). The reason why I am not removing the asterisk now is due to a user from the thread expressing an interest in testing it and I'd like to give them a chance to finish their run (they gave a reason for being late, so I am just waiting for them to sort it out). I am not gonna give out some specific time, as I'd be just arbitrarily deciding on some random number. Anyways, if some time passes without the rank being contested, I am removing the asterisk

- Beldum and Popplio will require more discussion before I consider moving them from their positions. In addition, Mudbray will need slightly more support to be established completely in S-tier.
 
Last edited:
Completely anecdotal evidence here as it was a long time ago and i have very little interest in replaying Gen 7, but i do remember Mudsdale massively exceeding expectations. It will pretty much beat any physical attacker with stamina, and it's special def wasn't terrible either. maybe it uses a few more potions thatn you'd like, but it performed extremely well.

I basically agree re Metagross. Metang has a fair few levels where it really needs to be your Eviolite Mon to contribute, but it's not efficient when it is. Once it evolves it demolishes the rest of the game. iirc i had an elemental punch as my 4th move. It's coverage really lets you cover for any deficiencies on your team. I don't think there's much of a disagreement about performance, just whether that performance warrants B tier. IMO it probably does.
(I believe it's not counted, but it was also very good for the post champion run to the tree and bosses in rocket castle)
 
Mudbray is absolutely S tier like the above people say. Stamina breaks the game before you can say “this game has too many unskippable cutescenes” - it has tools for some of the hardest Totems (Mimikyu / Kommo-o) and while it’s not great for Araquanid and Lurantis, this game gives you Flynium Z so it’s not exactly hard to find a good counter for both.

Seriously from Olivia 1 the game is basically over when you have the horse on your team. It’s the rare in-game mon where low Speed means absolutely nothing, and High Horsepower in the 20s as basically Earthquake (even off Mudbray’s 100 Attack!) ends lives. A minor ability hunt (which is easily determined in battle) isn’t so bad when it’s pretty common IIRC and just is an “I win” button. Literally the only thing better is Cha, the trade Hawlucha.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
With the posts above, I will seal Mudbray's tier on the next slate, though I can always give its asterisk back if someone brings up reasonable concerns.

Beldum, I will put it on the Hot List in the future, I would like first to clear off some of the Pokemon there, because it's been expanding too much, in my opinion, and I'd rather not enlarge unnecessarily.

As a side note, in an attempt to get a little bit more nominations before I open up a slate (hopefully soon), I want to ask people what are their thoughts on the UBs (any of your choice). DHR brought up concern about them and while I disagree with the idea of automatically every one in D or below (cause I think some are worthy of C-tier, just my opinion though), I can see some of the current ones dropping to D, particularly Buzzwole and Nihilego (and mayybeee Kartana, though Kartana is slightly better than both of them). Here's a small breakdown of each UB (from experience / theorymonning):

Nihilego - destroys Ribombee and Kahili, also good for Acerola and Hapu. The reason why I am considering dropping to D-tier is because it has only 4 good matchups, two of which are what I'd call the easiest fights in the games (Hapu and Acerola). However, it is by far one of the easiest to get, so it doesn't require much effort to be obtained

Buzzwole - good for Hapu, Molayne, Olivia, and (to an extent, depends on how you view healing item usage) Acerola, with some contributions against Hau. Like Nihilego, half of its matchups consist of the easier fights, so I feel like this is a plausible candidate for D too. Like Nihilego, isn't too hard to get, either

Pheromosa - this one could honestly drop to E, even. Its bulk is non-existent and I don't think it's particularly good for any matchup, it just kills a few things in battles and then something that is bulky enough comes in and kills it. I could maybe see a higher sweeping capability if you manage to rig your IVs in a way to get an offensive Beast Boost (cause 31 IVs in Speed cause Beast Boost to boost that), but I wouldn't say this is what I'd call "convicing of efficiency", although at least it's not super hard to get, iirc

Xurkitree - only ever struggles against Ribombee and destroys the other fights. 181 SpA + Beast Boost increasing it is certainly insane, helps that Xurkitree is relatively common (I think it's less common than the previous three, though) and, if you don't mind healing items, you can even sweep Hau (though if you land a Z-Hypnosis, you won't even need to heal). All in all, this one I personally think is fine in C, but if you guys think this should drop, please speak up (note: I am not planning on pushing any UB beyond C-tier. Those come extremely late, after all).

Kartana - can beat Ribombee if it doesn't decide to attack you (cause it will OHKO) and then proceeds to destroy most of the game afterwards (can't sweep Hau, though it can get some kills on him quite easily). Problem with this thing is that it's not as common as the other too (it typically appears in Type 3 wormholes, which require you to travel a fair amount of distance)

Celesteela - probably the best UB in terms of matchups won. Celesteela has no bad matchups whatsoever. It's very bulky and Specs + Beast Boost + appropriate coverage just steamrolls every fight that is here (bar Ribombee, which instead dies to Z-Fly). Hau requires luring in Tauros or Noivern and an Autotomize set, but that's like the only criticism I've got about it, other than being common mostly in Type 3 wormholes, but I think the slight effort to get is worth the amount of end-game matchups that are crushed by this thing.

Guzzlord - oh boy. This one is *very hard* to get. I spent around 10 minutes trying to find one. And Guzzlord wasn't exactly good to justify this either. It was like a bulkier, but slower Pheromosa in that it mostly could get few kills here and there, but it'd almost never sweep and something would eventually end up killing it. This one I am content with E-tier, but if someone thinks otherwise, please speak up

Poipole - never used this and it's not part of my ten runs, so I am jut gonna theorymon here. Poipole's issue is that it comes at level 40 and after beating Ultra Necrozma. Furthermore, its Slow growth rate means that it may not be able to catch up quickly with your team (or you'd have to do things like switch grind on *everything* you face) and you are stuck with Poipole till you reach the move relearner (aka you have Naganadel for the E4). On the bright side, though, it's a gift Pokemon, so it requires no effort to be obtained. I could maybe see this rising to E-tier if Naganadel ends up being good enough for the E4, but I am not planning on pushing it anywhere higher, though (after all, this requires a lot of effort to catch up for the little content that is left of the game)

pretty big post, but I hope you found this somewhat interesting. If you want to see any UB change its tier, please make a post and I will consider it.
 
So, I have just finished the Fire trial, and would like to give some preliminary comments about the Pokemon.

:Popplio: to B. Though Popplio looks good on paper for most of the trials until this point, I find it being unable to take down most major opponents. For instance, Totem Alolan Marowak could not be finished off by Brionne's Z move thanks to it using Detect, and it and Salazzle's attacks overwhelmed it soon after. Against Hala, Brionne was also unable to do much of note, falling to a critical Revenge from his Machop. Against Araquanid, it was also unable to achieve anything, falling to Leach Life soon after.

:Hawlucha: to S+. Hawlucha has been a spectacular Pokemon in this playthrough, landing KOs on all the bosses so far. It was able to take down Totem Raticate, Hala and Totem Araquanid with almost no help from the other team members at all. Against Totem Alolawak, it was able to land the final hit after some chip from Brionne.

:Magnemite: to B. Though it matches up problematically against all the battles until this point so far, it obtains Thunder Wave exceptionally early. Earlygame, its Steel typing is also a major boon, making the Trainer School Teacher battle and the first Ilima a complete cinch. On the other hand, it is slightly less bulky than I hope it would be, especially Totem Araquanid since the best STAB at that point is Thunder Shock. It was able to paralyse it with Thunder Wave though.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
ok so I am going to make a small slate with what we have currently as to maintain the thread's activity

here it is:

Finneon D -> E
Gabite F -> D
Rufflet C -> D
Nihilego C -> D
Buzzwole C -> D
Pheromosa D -> E

Basculin C - establish
Furfrou B - establish
Mudbray S - establish


Results will come in tomorrow.. Furfrou, Mudbray, and Basculin will be "established" in the tiers they are currently in, so if you feel like the ranks are not good for them, you want to speak up now, because it will be harder to change them later on.

As for my runs, I have most of them on Poni Island already. Only one is still on Ula'Ula, expect me to lay out all nominations from there within two weeks, there are quite a few Pokemon which I am planning to raise/lower in terms of ranking. One of them features Furfrou and I am pretty much content with B-tier, I managed to kill Mimikyu with it (will talk about it when I get to nominating it) and has been pretty good for Guzma on Ula'Ula. I may drop this and use some end-game Pokemon (like Poipole), given I am more or less convinced that this is B-tier and I don't think I am learning anything new after that (at most I could see if I can kill Ribombee with it). Basculin has similarly felt like a C-tier, so I may also end up dropping it for some end-game Pokemon that I want to quickly test.

Those are interesting nominations (at least the non-Hawlucha ones). Magnemite definitely feels a bit weak in the beginning, but post-Marowak is where it starts to pick up matchups per experience (I managed to beat Lurantis with it, though levels, IVs, and rolls could've played a roll in that, perhaps), only with occassional bad matchups in-between ruining its days (Togedemaru/Hapu/Kommo-o), but it dominates most of the late- and end-game, per experience.

For Brionne, B is certainly surprising, though again, I don't have much experience with it. For the Marowak matchup, what most Water-types do is set up Rain while it Detects and then launch a Z-Move. Obviously, this is not the most ideal way to beat it, because the AI could play smarter and attack instantly, but bar some exceptions like Hariyama and Gyarados, you don't really have *better* options that don't include support from teammates. I should look into using the line myself in the near future.

And for Hawlucha, this one is obvious, which is why I established S rank as soon as I introduced the asterisk system.

Looking forward to your other matchups! Are you planning on using anything else?

e: I know those are preliminary, just to be clear

e2: the rank changes were applied. I am not making a new post cause I have nothing of good substance to post about.
 
Last edited:
I have just finished Grand Trial Olivia (so not a large difference in distance), and would like to comment on the other Pokemon in my team.

:Salazzle:: I caught this Pokemon via SOS, and it had been a huge help in the game as of now. Its Inferno Overdrive was easily able to OHKO Lurantis-T while a Salandit from a previous playthrough was unable to do so. However, both of them have the same typing, being able to resist all of Lurantis's moves.

:Magnemite: update: Magnemite was easily able to murder through Olivia except for Lycanroc, which a Mirror Shot did not KO. I switched in Brionne to finish the job via Aqua Jet though, meaning Olivia was not able to get in her Z move.

:Grimer-Alola:: This thing has been a complete burden to my team. It was unable to do anything to any of the major boss battles, and I am seriously considering switching it out to a worthier Pokemon. Its typing, though appealing, does NOT make up for the fact that its evolution is extremely late. I will give it one last chance to prove itself at Totem Mimikyu, or to the box it goes.

I will also pick up a Mimikyu at the Megamart, and will talk about how it goes after completing most of Ula'ula.
 
I have just finished Grand Trial Olivia (so not a large difference in distance), and would like to comment on the other Pokemon in my team.

:Salazzle:: I caught this Pokemon via SOS, and it had been a huge help in the game as of now. Its Inferno Overdrive was easily able to OHKO Lurantis-T while a Salandit from a previous playthrough was unable to do so. However, both of them have the same typing, being able to resist all of Lurantis's moves.

:Magnemite: update: Magnemite was easily able to murder through Olivia except for Lycanroc, which a Mirror Shot did not KO. I switched in Brionne to finish the job via Aqua Jet though, meaning Olivia was not able to get in her Z move.

:Grimer-Alola:: This thing has been a complete burden to my team. It was unable to do anything to any of the major boss battles, and I am seriously considering switching it out to a worthier Pokemon. Its typing, though appealing, does NOT make up for the fact that its evolution is extremely late. I will give it one last chance to prove itself at Totem Mimikyu, or to the box it goes.

I will also pick up a Mimikyu at the Megamart, and will talk about how it goes after completing most of Ula'ula.
Yeah, Grimer is very odd in terms of viability. Great earlygame but then you realize “wait this thing has no matchups.”

Try and have some patience. It DOES get loads better when it evolves with Crunch access. Fire Punch can help just in case you don’t have it for Steels.

Magnemite thankfully picks up soon at Zone. I think it’s a solid A tier but definitely not S because it’s not exactly stellar pre-ton/Zone.

I definitely remember Primarina being where Popplio takes off in viability thanks to firepower and move diversity.

Keep up the great work!
 
Sorry once again for my slowness, but here's Olivia and Totem Togedemaru. If my levels for the latter seem a bit low, it's because I've been trying to save most of the route trainers for when Bruxish joins.

Z-Last Resort still demolishes non-resists but it really isn't hitting hard with normal moves; when I fought Hau at the start of Ula'ula, it failed to 2HKO Dartrix with Crunch. Speaking of resists...
Olivia (Lv. 30): It got outsped by Anorith and took around 75%, but Crunch OHKO'd. It nearly beat Lileep but got finished off.
Togedemaru (Lv. 34): You have Super Fang now but Sitrus Berry kinda ruins that. You can get at most 2 Super Fangs off but between Hustle, 90% base accuracy, and flinches, it's not too likely. Black Glasses boosed moves do jack so those don't help.
It definitely feels like this is falling off, and I'm pretty sure most of it's good matchups are behind it. Outside of Z-Last Resort, it has very little going for it at this point besides an unreliable Super Fang and decently strong but 80% accurate Sucker Punch.

Hariyama is still going strong. Its high attack and good coverage ensures good damage and it still feels pretty bulky.
Olivia (Lv. 30): +2 Brick Break OHKOs her whole team, easy win
Togedemaru (Lv. 35): +2 Brick Break 2HKOs even after Sitrus, but having to deal with Bounce sucks. I had to use a Hyper Potion to win 1v1.

I haven't had much of a chance to use Venusaur, so I'll comment on how it feels in routes next update. I will say that the family kinda suffers from 4MSS, in the sense that it only really has space for 1 TM as it wants Giga, Growth, and Sleep Powder. I suppose you could reteach Giga but that's pretty inefficient. You could also maybe drop Sleep Powder, since I haven't found many great uses for it, but that might just be because I haven't really tried it much after the first trial.
Olivia (Lv. 30): After Z-Sunny Day, you outspeed anorith and you can OHKO it at +2. I recommend setting up as much as you can, though, since you need +6 to OHKO lileep (although you can just 1v1 it). Lycanroc did outspeed but it just tried to Bite me, which did around half and you should be pretty healthy because Giga Drain. Pretty easy win overall.
Togedemaru (Lv. 35): Not great. You have to deal with Bounce and +2 Bulldoze 3HKOs after Sitrus. I suppose you could sleep it but that's just more RNG in this battle where you already have to deal with Spiky Shield and Bounce paralysis.

It's still beating most things from what I can tell (granted it's with Z-moves), and it's just about to get Air Slash and then Revelation Dance. Still looking good.
Olivia (Lv. 30): After Z-Feather Dance, Anorith 5HKOs you although a crit will kill you. +3 OHKOs Anorith, +5 OHKOs Lileep (so you need to heal, either to set up to +5 or take Lileep's counterattack), and +5 does around half to Lycanroc while you get OHKO'd by Continental Crush. Not too bad, honestly, only needed 1 potion or Roost and no bad luck to go through most of her team.
Togedemaru (Lv. 35): Easily gets it to -6 attack, which is pretty nice. You can't 1v1 it, because 4x resist and Torment and such, but almost ensuring a victory for a teammate is decent enough.
I wasn't too sure at first but the more I think about it the more Oricorio might be S, and the key is actually Feather Dance. It either allows it to set up in situations it really shouldn't be able to, or heavily nerf an otherwise problematic foe. Combined with the very dominant early game, if this thing keeps up the decent matchups I really could see an argument for S.

Also not too much to say. Z-Fire Fang is still OHKOing, although I imagine that, like Raticate, it is starting to lack power in its non-Z-moves.
Olivia (Lv. 30): With Z-Sun, you outspeed and OHKO anorith and 1v1 Lileep. Obviously, you get destroyed by Lycanroc, but again, for a type disadvantage this isn't a terrible matchup, although the 2 Pokemon you beat take neutral damage from you.
Togedemaru (Lv. 35): Sun Z-Fire Fang into regular Fire Fang kills. It basically comes down to whether or not you get flinched.

I'll finally have Bruxish soon, but it really needs to exceed my expectations for it to make up for the late-ish join time. From what I see, it's like a weaker Basculin that comes later and gets a Psychic STAB at one point, which imho looks like a losing trade.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Sorry once again for my slowness, but here's Olivia and Totem Togedemaru. If my levels for the latter seem a bit low, it's because I've been trying to save most of the route trainers for when Bruxish joins.
no problems, I am glad that you are providing logs, so thank you! I don't have much comments, for Bruxish, I am pretty sure I only placed it out of casual experience with it, which was... 3 years ago. I have never really tested it, so I would be fine with a drop to D or C (as far as I can tell, at least). For Oricorio, I never considered Featherdance, but this will certainly be in favor of Oricorio's final ranking. I wouldn't call Olivia a good matchup, even if some of it is doable, given the massive amount of time spent to beat her stuff, though you did say "not too bad", so it's fair to say it's not the most ideal one. But that's just me nitpicking

nothing wrong with your Hariyama logs, but since I noticed it, I should mention that +1 Z-Moves deal more damage than +2 normal moves. The calculation below should be a good illustration:

+2 Lvl 35 0 Atk Hariyama Brick Break vs. +2 Lvl 33 252 HP / 252+ Def Togedemaru-Totem: 68-84 (58.6 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Lvl 35 0 Atk Hariyama All-Out Pummeling (140 BP) vs. +2 Lvl 33 252 HP / 252+ Def Togedemaru-Totem: 98-116 (84.4 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

(15 IVs, no EVs on Hariyama)

so if you are aiming for OHKOs, +1 Z-Moves are the way to go..

.If my levels for the latter seem a bit low
they are fine, so no worries.

Keep up the great work! I am looking forward to the rest of the logs, especially Oricorio's

===

update on my runs: I have around three runs left to complete (all on Poni Island), I will be posting soon. Expect lots of tier scrambling, as many things performed different to what I expected. .
 
Ultra Necrozma down. I would like to make some suggestions.

I decided to swap out Beldum for the very poorly performing Alolan Grimer, and I have to say I'm not disappointed. Even though there is a slow part where it is a Metang, it is still able to be quite powerful during that time, holding Eviolite for added bulk. When it goes to its final evolution, it becomes a hell of a wrecking ball, being able to theoretically blow past Mina's team and is also able to beat Ultra Necrozma after a Rotom's defense boost and some prior chip from Mimikyu.

However, it is hindered by its late arrival and its Metang stage, but that can be combated by using the Beach move tutors to teach Metang early Iron Head and some of the elemental punches. I went with Thunder Punch, which in retrospect, would not be as good as Ice Punch, since Ice Punch also helps against Necrozma. It is however, a powerful member of my team and looks to stay that way, having advantageous matchups against Olivia, some of Molayne's Pokemon and a few of Kahili's Pokemon, though it has a relatively disadvantageous matchup against Acerola.

Mimikyu is the final team member on my team, and I have to say, it has only impressed me until now. Though it does not have the type advantage against most of Nanu's team, it was able to fire off Z-Bug (Leach Life) to almost KO the Persian he had on his team. Though in my tests it did not have Shadow Sneak, it would have picked up the KO against the cat, as well as KO Totem Kommo'o in one shot with a crit Z-Play Rough. (I did not know if it would KO without the critical hit though). With Z-Play Rough as well, it was able to do upwards of 50% on Ultra Necrozma while Necrozma chooses to use Smart Strike (dumb AI as usual).

Mimikyu looks to be powerful in the Elite Four battles as well. Via a move tutor, it obtains Drain Punch, which shreds members of Molayne's team as well as Olivia's team. It does have a risky matchup against Acerola, but Mimikyu can mostly outspeed her team. As above, this Pokemon mainly struggles during the Ula'ula section where it does not obtain its powerful STABs, but when it gets Play Rough and its signature Z-Crystal, almost all enemies quake in front of it.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
(I did not know if it would KO without the critical hit though)
Lvl 55 60 Atk Mimikyu-Totem Let's Snuggle Forever vs. +1 Lvl 49 120 HP / 138 Def Roseli Berry Kommo-o-Totem: 120-144 (74 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(17 IVs, 60 Attack EVs, Hardy nature)

This is only assuming you attack instantly. In reality, what you are gonna do is Work Up turn one and then attack, since Disguise helps you take one hit anyways.

Via a move tutor, it obtains Drain Punch
Drain Punch is at the Battle Tree, unfortunately, so this cannot be considered

Anyways, I would like you first finish your run, just in case the E4 matchups change your opinion on any of the Pokemon (especially Mimikyu, since the lack of Drain Punch *may* affect your nomination). Looking forward to your final results!

===

I am gonna make a small update to the OP and ban Poke Pelago from the list. In reality, no one was using it anyways and it'd be easier to explain in the article that we banned it rather than say "we allowed it for some stuff", even though no one used it anyways. The only relevant changes that have resulted from this change is that Misdreavus is going to go from F to Untiered.
 
Last edited:

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
double post, but after two months of doing ten runs at once (the reason why it was two months was because I didn't test for around two-three weeks at some point and then took a few days off testing again. In reality, it didn't take me much to get two runs through one island, so dw if you think that I have overdone myself, I have been taking breaks when I felt they were needed), I am finally done with those runs.

Those runs consisted mostly of Pokemon in the mega slate, along with some other Pokemon that I had placed when I was drafting the whole list (such as Absol). While I correctly "predicted" most of the Pokemon's tiers, there were a lot whose tier I did not theorymon correctly and finding those was the aim of the whole experiment. There are still some things that need testing from the mega slate (most notably the QR mons) and from my drafts (Dragalge/Alomomola/Luvdisc come to mind) and I am planning on tackling those in the future (tbh, for Luvdisc, it's just a question of "is trying to get it at level 10-12 enough for E-tier?", because that's the only way to have Charm with it).

When reading through some of the rises, it is important to go with the knowledge of how I proceeded with those: I believe that F-tier is an absolute last resort for any Pokemon. I believe that F-tier should consist of Pokemon that either provide no good niche whatsoever or are simply way too bad to be worth using. This is why you may see some seemingly-terrible Pokemon raise from F to E (or even D!?). This does not mean that I or the list acknowledge the Pokemon as good or endorse their usage; it simply, means that the Pokemon are still not worth using, but if you do bother getting through all of their issues, you can find a legitimate reason to actually use them.

When reading through some of the drops, it is important to note that I did not count Hapu or Acerola too highly for a Pokemon's tier. Those two are such easy fights that you literally need to try to actually have difficulties against them. This does not mean they were disregarded entirely, just that having good matchups exclusively against them wasn't a reason to keep some things outside of F-tier.

With that said, the list below has all 10 runs with all Pokemon used listed. I sometimes dropped things, mostly because I felt I was convinced of the tier it was going in, and replaced it with something else that I wanted to also check off my testing list. In addition, I have included a small tl;dr with all changes that will be in effect and very quick justifications as to why this change is happening. For some Pokemon, I have made it clear that I am open to another tier if someone wants to make a case for that, but unless challenged, they will be in whatever tier I have decided they will be in.

Spinarak / Pichu / Morelull / Poliwag (Politoed) / Pancham / Dhelmise
Spinarak
Reasons for initial placement - natural SD + Bounce, but only useful for three fights + Spinarak phase
What I actually experienced - the above describes perfectly well what I experienced with Ariados. Ariados could OHKO Araquanid and Lurantis with +2 Z-Bounce and Ribombee with +2 Z-PJab, but not only it did not have any other matchups for me, but the Spinarak phase was pretty bad, as I couldn't use it on the field with reasonable success. Keeping this in D-tier

Pichu
Reasons for initial placement - Pichu / Pikachu phase, Psychic typing making it bad for most opponents (especially Totems)
What I actually experienced - for my run, my Pichu evolved exactly at level 13 to get both NP and Electro Ball (otherwise, you are stuck with Thundershock as your best STAB). I also evolved Pikachu as soon as I got a Thunder Stone from the daycare. However, it was still pretty lacking in most matchups, often dying to super effective coverage. It has some use against Olivia if you set up on Lileep, but it's still bad until Nanu, where you can actually kill his Sableye and Krokorok. At Poni Island, you can beat Kommo-o only if you are faster (NP then Z-Psychic) and can crush most of Hapu with Specs Grass Knot. It's pretty bad at the E4, but it can sweep Hau this way: NP to the max against his own Raichu, set up Z-Rain, heal up to avoid QA KO (if needed) and then spam TBolt, while OHKOing Electric resists with Psychic. All in all, it's fine in D, not moving it.

Morelull
Reasons for initial placement - poor offensive movepool and STABs resisted often
What I actually experienced - Morelull has few matchups which I'd classify as good. Those are Olivia #1, Nanu, and Hapu. Something unique about Shiinotic is the combo of Spore + Strength Sap. Unfortunately, sleep is no longer too broken, so Spore isn't that valuable. Strength Sap sees usage against three Totems only. However, Togedemaru can flinch you with Iron Head and thus block you from using it, while Kommo-o OHKOs with PJab. So yeah, in practice, only one Totem consistently falls to this strategy. On the field, Morelull isn't that great either, as it has no coverage and Grass / Fairy is resisted fairly often. D-tier is fine for it, in my opinion.

Poliwag (Politoed)
Reasons for initial placement - need for item hunting, comparable matchups to other Water-types (aka generally useful only where Water is at an advantage)
What I actually experienced - Politoed can beat Marowak and is useful for Olivia fights, Hapu, and Nanu. Honestly, I was conflicted about this, as it felt like C-tier, but King's Rock being an item hunt definitely hurts it. Poliwrath performs pretty much the same way, but you don't have to item hunt (although you have hatch the Eevee to get the Water Stone for Marowak, but at least this one doesn't require outside optimizations like having a Butterfree). I will keep this in D, but I could honestly push it to C in the future, if someone feels like I am being too harsh on it.

Pancham
Reasons for initial placement - nominated by another user
What I actually experienced - I am not sure how I am feeling about D-tier. My Pancham was about, if not more, useful than Scraggy, other than against Ultra Necrozma (where Scraggy requires less items to OHKO). My Pangoro managed to OHKO Togedemaru with +1 Z-BB, sweep Nanu with one healing item, and crushed 3/4 of the E4 (it completely destroys Molayne, which is rare). So one of these has to happen:

1) Pancham rises to C
2) Scraggy drops to D

Personally, I'd rather have both in C rather than both in D. I will put Pancham on a watch and see if anyone can convince me of D or C. For now, Pancham is on a watch for C

Dhelmise

Reasons for initial placement - very late arrival, hopeful that it's very strong
What I actually experienced - My Dhelmise had two good matchups: Ribombee (Shadow Claw then Z-Heavy Slam) and Hapu (Specs Grass Knot). I didn't try it against Acerola, because, well... I forgot to, but it wouldn't have changed my mind on first place. Olivia #2 wasn'texactly good, as Armaldo weakens you and Lycanroc can finish you off with Crunch (Anchor Shot doesn't even OHKO Armaldo) Anyways, Dhelmise has few issues:

1) it comes at Seafolk Village
2) it's only a 10% *with fishing* (which will be annoying). Bubble spots have 35% but you then need to constantly reload every time you don't get a Dhelmise unless you like to leave and enter repeatedly the location to trigger bubbles.
3) it can come very underleveled, as low as level 10.

all in all, Dhelmise's availability, which includes it being rare or hard to find (with decent IVs, at least), chances of being low leveled, and and skipping most of the game, only for it perform well in two-three matchups, of which half is the easy bosses, I think D-tier is too high for this. I am planning to drop (no pun intended) Dhelmise to E-tier. I wanted to like it, but it has too many flaws that I cannot just ignore.


Drowzee / Cottonee / Pyukumuku / Sandygast / Pineco / Clawitzer. Also gave a go to Sneasel and Drampa so I can check them off my list for testing.
Drowzee
Reasons for initial placement - Psychic typing, unimpressive offensive stats
What I actually experienced - Drowzee can contribute to Hala and then stops being relevant way until Kommo-o, where it can OHKO with +2 Z-Psychic, as long as Kommo-o and Noivern don't actually KO it. Honestly, this could even be E, but I didn't use it too thoroughly in what I thought to be bad matchups and it does come early, so I will keep it in D.

Cottonee
Reasons for initial placement - mostly a support Pokemon, stuck as Cottonee till Blush Mountain, little independent matchups
What I actually experienced - Cottonee can contribute to Hala, sweep Nanu and Hapu, and can contribute against Olivia #2. In other matchups, it can either:

1) support with Leech Seed and/or Charm
2) employ some Endeavor + Focus Sash strategy (from Poni Island onwards)

I am personally open to C-tier, but I will keep it in D-tier for now due to the cons I mentioned above. But if someone tests this and says C-tier, I will raise it to that. Cottonee is on watch for C-tier, due to some good independent matchups and ability to bring down opponents like Ultra Necrozma down relatively quickly, though it's not a high priority.

Pyukumuku
Reasons for initial placement - nominated for D or C, went with D due to uselessness on the field and non-Totem matchups
What I actually experienced - I am definitely keeping this in D-tier. The way I used Pyukumuku was to not give it Poke Beans (so it can stay as underleveled as possible) and have it occupy a slot on my team the whole time. The idea behind using it this way, as opposed to doing some level management strategies (which I think are unreasonable for casual audience, which is what I am catering to), is to emulate its performance on a more casual level. Pyukumuku can defeat both Lurantis and Togedemaru with Counter, but is unreliable for those, as Lurantis can OHKO on rolls and Togedemaru can flinch you. It can also 2HKO Kommo-o with Counter, but risks Scizor redirecting the Counter to it with X-Scissor. Against Ultra Necrozma, you can equip Sash, Toxic it, then live a Photon Geyser due to Sash, then heal, then trigger Innards Out. This way, Ultra Necrozma dies on the next turn. However, Pyukumuku has little use in any Kahuna / E4 fight, because it will struggle taking out more than one Pokemon without offscreen healing. So keeping this in D-tier.

Sandygast
Reasons for initial placement - discussed by other people, found D the most appropriate
What I actually experienced - Sandygast can be useful for Togedemaru with Eviolite, although you may need to heal there and it won't be a OHKO/2HKO either. After that, Sandygast stops being relevant until the E4, where it can be very helpful due to its typing being useful there. However, given you are stuck with Sandygast for a lot of time (till level 42) and that thing isn't the best thing to use on the field (and thus grind), I will keep it in D, but if RSE's tests provide more details to support a different tier, I may consider moving its tier.

Pineco
Reasons for initial placement -nominated by someone else
What I actually experienced - pretty much agreed with D-tier. Can be very useful for Mimikyu if Banette is dispatched off and is useful for Ribombee. Spikes can also be very valuable at the E4 to break the two Sturdies that appear there. I didn't use it for Olivia #2, because I wanted to get done with the run faster, but even without that fight, D is good for me.

Clawitzer
Reasons for initial placement - late arrival, but Mega Launcher-boosted moves sounded fun
What I actually experienced - unfortunately, Clawitzer also ended up being overrated by me. It is too slow and too frail to do much against most fights. It's useful for Hapu and can contribute against the E4 with super effective hits, but outside of Acerola, you aren't taking out more than 2-3 Pokemon, although you need to heal offscreen to even do that. Clawitzer is going to drop to E

Sneasel

Reasons for initial placement - very very very very late arrival, underleveled
What I actually experienced -even if you manage to somehowly grind a Weavile all the way to level 63, you aren't getting much in return. It's good for Acerola and can claim some KOs against Kahili, but only Toucannon ever gets OHKOed by a non-Z-Move (fun fact, Mandibuzz lives a Z-Ice Punch) and things like Hawlucha and Oricorio can simply OHKO it. The KOs it provides are not enough to offset the late availability and the need to grind it. F-tier.

Drampa
Reasons for initial placement - read Sneasel's
What I actually experienced - Drampa is slightly better than Sneasel, but not the point I'd put it above F-tier. Drampa can contribute with super effective hits and against Acerola (and with Specs), but outside of Molayne and Acerola, Drampa isn't getting more than one-two KOs without healing. And those two are not enough to offset the late availability and the need to grind it. F-tier


Seel / Roggenrola (No Trade) / Clamperl (Gorebyss) / Igglybuff / Kecleon / Trubbish
Seel
Reasons for initial placement - very low Special Attack till Dewgong, which at this point skips the matchups where it'd shine
What I actually experienced - yeah, Seel is *really* bad. Until it evolves into a Dewgong, you might as well just have an empty teama slot in its place. Unfortunately, by the time it evolves, you will already be at Ula'Ula, which doesn't prove to be any better for Dewgong. Its only good matchups come in the end-game, being good for Hapu and having some usefulness for Kahili. I didn't try Frost Breath on Ribombee, although I wish I did. Nevertheless, Seel is gonna remain in E-tier

Roggenrola (No Trade)
Reasons for initial placement - unimpressive stats, coupled with Rock typing not being too useful with them
What I actually experienced - Boldore was slightly better than what I assumed. With Eviolite, it can take on Olivia #1 (bar Lileep), while Rockium Z allows it to beat Ribombee (as long as it doesn't attack turn one) and gives it some usefulness against Kahili. I even ran Stealth Rock on this, since it doesn't have much else to run. Boldore will rise to D. Worth mentioning that Guzma is a pretty bad matchup, even with Rock Polish.

Clamperl (Gorebyss)
Reasons for initial placement - rare, requires backtrack, requires item hunt
What I actually experienced - while the above stays true, Gorebyss is very good. Swift Swim, combined with good Special Attack, allows it to outspeed and murder a lot of things under rain. If you have a Gorebyss for Marowak, that is an prey for Gorebyss. Olivia #1, likewise, is overwhelmed by this thing's power, with Lileep dying to Z-Water Pulse + Signal Beam. It can OHKO Togedemaru with Hydro Vortex in rain, deal with 2/3 of Nanu's team, beat Ribombee with Psych Up and Pelipper's rain, and contribute a lot against the E4, typically being able to get at least three KOS before needing to heal.

Of course, it's not without its flaws. First of all, it requires a heavy backtrack if you want to use it before Marowak. Second of all, it's at 5% only and needs bubble spots to hve 35% (and I believe that's only on one side of Melemele Sea, the other one still has it at 5%). Finally, you need to itemhunt a Deep Sea Scale to evolve it. It is also in the Erratic experience group, which means it will need a lot of attention to keep up with your team, although Gorebyss is strong enough that this shouldn't pose a significant challenge and it later allows Gorebyss to level up very fast.

As for item hunting, it also depends a bit on your version .UM players can itemhunt off Blue-striped Basculin, while US players are forced to hunt off Chinchou. This means that only UM players get to use it for Marowak without having to SOS chain.

All in all, Gorebyss will rise to D, because it's very good and much better than the trash in E-tier.

Igglybuff
Reasons for initial placement - very bad stats and movepool
What I actually experienced - even its Ribombee matchup is somewhat shaky, because I found myself losing to Ribombee at one point, even with Psych Up. The strategy there seems to be DCurl, then Z-Psych Up, then Rollout on Pelipper, which allows you to OHKO Ribombee from full after that. I will keep it in E-tier, but it was very close to F.

Kecleon
Reasons for initial placement - bad stats, Color Change
What I actually experienced - Kecleon isn't good whatsoever. Its only good or close-to-good matchups are the Olivia fights. Against the first fight, you can Work Up on Lileep, 2HKO with BB, then OHKO Lycanroc with Z-BB. Against the second fight, you can Substitute against Probopass and Work Up from there and take out a few Pokemon. Color Change makes it a bit bad for route cleaning, because it consistently loses its Normal STAB, so it doesn't hit as hard. All in all, keeping this in E-tier.

Trubbish
Reasons for initial placement - only contributes with Clear Smog and win over Ribombee
What I actually experienced - the above. Garbodor is useful only for beating Ribombee and spreading Clear Smog around. Grinding a Trubbish before that is pretty bad, though. I will keep it in E-tier, but I can maybe see D-tier for it too, depending on how much you value Clear Smog.


Carbink (dropped) / Eevee (Umbreon) / Clamperl (Huntail) / Cleffa / Dedenne / Shellos / Jangmo-o
Carbink
Reasons for initial placement - low offensive stats, can only set up Screens
What I actually experienced - Carbink is a great screen setter, because it can live most super effective moves and thus set up the needed screen. Unfortuntely, its low stats and pretty bad movepool early on make it bad even on the field. I had to drop it, because it was falling behind its teammates and I couldn't really switch grind it constantly. E-tier.

Eevee (Umbreon)
Reasons for initial placement - nominated by another user
What I actually experienced - yeah, this is... bad. Outside of Baby-Doll Eyes, Umbreon does nothing in most major fights. At most, you can spam Roto Boosts for Ultra Necrozma and use it against Acerola, but even with those, I am still gonna keep it in E.

Clamperl (Huntail
Reasons for initial placement - rare, requires itemhunt, requires backtrack
What I actually experienced - similarly to Gorebyss, Huntail is also way better than most things in E-tier. It can similarly sweep Marowak and Olivia (albeit with Dive, rather than Water Pulse), although it can theoritically spam Coil on Golisopod, then Rain Dance, then Z-Bounce, then spam Aqua Tail. It typically needs Coil + Rain Dance to do much, which makes it slightly worse than Gorebyss, but it tends to perform just as well as Gorebyss after you reach Nanu, so I am gonna raise Huntail to D since it's also good enough for E.

Note: UM players are *very* screwed up if they want to use Huntail. This is cause US players can hunt for Deep Sea Tooth off Red Basculin, but UM players are forced to wait all the way until Poni Breaker Coast to hunt it off Carvanha or have to SOS chain. For the purposes of the tier list, we will tier off the US version only, because I don't want to split unnecessarily.

Cleffa
Reasons for initial placement - stuck as a Clefairy till it gets Moonblast (at level 46)
What I actually experienced - if you do get Clefairy to level 46 before Nanu, you get a very good answer to him. It also has some use against Guzma #3. After that, you won't be finding much use for it (Psych Up could work against Ribombee, but is tricky to pull off). E-tier

Dedenne
Reasons for initial placement - only good matchup seemed like Kahili
What I actually experienced - Dedenne is just as bad as it looks on paper. Its typing is not useful for most boss fights. Nanu would normally be a good matchup, but Dedenne beats only Sableye. It can be useful for Kahili, although it doesn't sweep there, but it will often do next-to-nothing in other relevant matchups. Even Grass Knot didn't save it from a bad matchup against Hapu. E-tier

Shellos
Reasons for initial placement - late arrival but good matchup against Molayne and Olivia and traded experience
What I actually experienced - Gastrodon is useful for Hapu, Molayne (with Mud Bomb through relearner), and can do well against Olivia with healing. Obviously, the extremely late arrival hurts it, but it's good enough for E-tier.

Jangmo-o
Reasons for initial placement - good matchup against Olivia and Molayne, but late arrival
What I actually experienced - with Belly Drum, it can actually take on those two above, but will certainly require at least one healing to sweep them. It needs to be grinded a lot, though, as it comes at Vast Poni Canyon. I could see F due to the investment and little reward in return, but it having matchups that are not Acerola / Hapu is more than enough for me. Keeping it in E-tier.


Bagon / Sableye / Elgyem / Snorunt (Glalie) / Trapinch / Exeggcute
Bagon
Reasons for initial placement - 1% encounter, mostly useless till Mence
What I actually experienced - as a Shelgon, I managed to make it useful for Olivia with Eviolite and Brick Break. It did remain useless for major fights till it evolved as a Salamence, which allowed it to perform well against Guzma #3, Kommo-o, and Ribombee. At the E4, it was very useful for Molayne with Specs Flamethrower and I managed to KO three of Kahili's Pokemon with it (Braviary/Hawlucha/Oricorio). While 1% encounter sucks, you can consider catching it at Kala'e Bay, though I am wondering if you will be able to evolve it by Olivia #1 then. I am gonna raise Bagon to D, simply cause I feel bad putting a Pokemon with a legitimately good end-game alongside the trash that is there, but I don't really mind it being either tier.

Sableye
Reasons for initial placement - I honestly thought I would find something good about it once I got to testing it
What I actually experienced -Sableye was.... a new level of badness that I have only rarely experienced (last time I felt something like this was with HGSS Grimer and HGSS Murkrow). Sableye is an SOS mon only, but it's t 66% spawn rate, so it's not too hard to obtain. And that's about the only compliment I can give to it. Sableye's typing has little use offensively and makes almost everything hit it neutrally, which isn't great once you realize that its stats are pretty mediocre. Speaking of stats, this is also another reason why Sableye isn't KOing anything. Its movepool is colorful, but I could not get it to OHKO any major opponent whatsoever. Like, Acerola's Banette can live a Shadow Claw from it. And the mediocre Speed and aforementioned bulk do not help that either. I tried my best to come up with a niche for Sableye and the best thing I've got is... spreading burns with Will-o-Wisp. This, as much as it doesn't actually pain me to say, forces me to say that I will drop Sableye to F-tier. This may sound extreme, because nothing is seemingly wrong with Sableye, but I felt as if I could have simply had an empty team slot in its place and it'd have made little-to-no difference.

Elgyem
Reasons for initial placement - seemingly no good matchups other than Kommo-o
What I actually experienced - well, I wasn't 100% correct, it was also good for Hapu with Energy Ball! Anyways, bar that, I was mostly correct. After all, it's a Psychic-type that comes on island #3, I am not sure what you could expect from it. It is very slow, so it will be taking lots of damage in the process. Keeping this in E-tier.

Snorunt (Glalie)
Reasons for initial placement - late, pretty bad overall, but didn't look fully useless
What I actually experienced - well, nothing much to say other than what's written above. It can beat Nanu's Sableye and Persian by exploiting their AI; they will Fake Out, but Inner Focus means you still get to attack. It can 2HKO Kommo-o and Ribombee with Specs Frost Breath, but will often lose to both. It has some use against Hapu and Kahili with Specs STAB moves, but I don't recall it sweeping either. Will keep this in E, since Snorunt phase isn't super pleasant either.

Trapinch
Reasons for initial placement - I was seemingly high or something
What I actually experienced - Trapinch is actually a decent Pokemon. I kept mine unevolved so I can get it to Flygon faster (and to learn Superpower) and it ended up being quite useful. It can take out Sableye and Krokorok and is useful for the Pokemon League thanks to DD via reminder; it can easily sweep the E4, though it may need to heal once to achieve it safely, and can be of great help against Hau by DDing thrice (if you can get to that,, will need to heal once) and then just OHKOing Decidueye with Z-DClaw and the rest with appropriate STAB move. Given this, I will raise Trapinch to C-tier. I will definitely want a second opinion on this one before we conclude the list, but it's certainly one tier better than Gabite and Golett.

Exeggcute
Reasons for initial placement - late arrival, but colorful movepool
What I actually experienced - it has some use against Molayne with Specs Flamethrower and Olivia and Hapu with Specs Mega Drain. It has enough relevant use to not be F-tier, but it's not going higher than E, where it currently is


Growlithe / Corsola / Larvitar / Absol / Golett / Aerodactyl
Growlithe
Reasons for initial placement - nominated by another user
What I actually experienced -this is definitely not D-tier and I'd argue it's pretty close to B. While Growlithe period sucks until Lurantis, it does crush that one fight and, once it evolves, it becomes great, with Flamethrower razing through Togedemaru, Guzma, and Molayne. In addition, I managed to beat Mimikyu with it this way: Flame Charge, preferably with Banette killed, and set up Sunny Day. Z-Flamethrower + Flamethrower will KO Mimikyu, while Shadow Claw deals nothing to Arcanine. It is possible to win with Banette alive, but you want it to miss or not use Screech turn one.

It did suck against Ribombee, though, because Blissey can just heal it with Heal Pulse and negate all Fire Blasts you throw at it. All in all, I will establish Growlithe in C-tier, though I, per se, wouldn't be strongly opposed to B-tier either, but given the amount of attention I gave it early on to mitigate the Slow growth rate, I think I may be overrating it a bit, but I am confident in C at worst.

Corsola
Reasons for initial placement - well... it's a Corsola? This thing gets bottom tier consistently
What I actually experienced - I found out that Corsola actually has a very useful niche: Mirror Coat. Mirror Coat allows it to OHKO Ultra Necrozma just with Focus Sash as its held item. In addition, I even managed to OHKO Marowak with it and it had some use against Olivia #1 and Kahili. I will raise Corsola to E-tier due to this niche. I am hesitant to D-tier, even though I considered it, because Corsola is rare and requires a massive backtrack if you want to use it for Marowak, though, as an off-topic, it does have the Fast growth rate, allowing it to collect exp. passively (even though it would still be unhelpful later on).

Larvitar
Reasons for initial placement - pre-Tyranitar period
What I actually experienced - Larvitar ended up being more useful than I thought. While I failed to get Pupitar for Olivia (which I will rule as a negligience on my part), Tyranitar by itself was pretty powerful for some end-game bosses. It kills Ribombee and is useful against the whole E4; it crushes most of Kahili and Molayne (in spite of the type disadvantage against the latter), is useful for Acerola (which isn't super notable but hey) and can take out most of Olivia's Pokemon. Given this, I will raise Larvitar to D. I am not raising it any higher than that, because the pre-Tyranitar period is nothing to praise.

Absol
Reasons for initial placement - I missed the part where it said it learned Perish Song at levle 57
What I actually experienced - Absol will raise to E-tier. Absol is good for one thing, which is that it can Perish Song on Ultra Necrozma with a Sash equipped. Do not confuse this with me saying it's good, because it literally isn't. At most you could probably use it for... Acerola. Outside of those, Absol sees little use. It is incredible how you can be both frail and not strong enough to OHKO bulky things with +2 attacks.

Golett
Reasons for initial placement - SOS encounter
What I actually experienced - with Gabite in D, Golett will also rise to D. Golett is, in my opinion, better than Gabite, because Golett has Curse for the Poni Totems (and Ultra Necrozma) and thus is much more useful than Garchomp. Garchomp is better for opponents like Acerola, but Golurk can sweep Molayne (and is also good for the other fights bar Kahili). All in all, Golett cannot be lower than Gabite (though this speaks moreso of Gabite not being that good, in my opinion), but as I will mention later, I will respect the wishes for Gabite to be something higher than E.

Aerodactyl
Reasons for initial placement - late arrival and low join level
What I actually experienced - keeping this in E-tier. It loses to Kommo-o and Ribombee, as both 2HKO it while Aerodactyl fails to OHKO them (and they are faster). Aerodactyl sweeps Kahili and, combined with it still weakening the aforementioned bosses significantly, this is enough for E-tier for me, but not any higher. I do have to note that Aero is pretty good on the field, as it beat most trainers on its own, though it did need assistance from time to time, nevertheless.


Happiny / Goldeen / Ralts (Gallade) / Goomy / Baltoy / Granbull
Happiny
Reasons for initial placement - SOS encounter (13%), non-existant Defense in a game where most of the bosses are physical attackers.
What I actually experienced - turns out Happiny isn't entirely useless. It can live at least one of most physical attacks and cripple the opponent with Charm. In addition, Blissey was able to wall any special attacker it faced, most notably Nanu's Persian and Totem Ribombee and proceed to beat them in some way (with Echoed Voice, combined with Work Up / Calm Mind + Psych Up). It also levels up fast, so you don't have to use it too much. I am going to raise Happiny to E due to being usable if you actually bother getting one. It's not going any higher, though.

Goldeen
Reasons for initial placement -dropped it in a previous playthrough due to sucking
What I actually experienced - keeping this in E-tier. Other than Hapu and, to an extent, Olivia #2, Seaking does little against major opponents. I'd have considered F too, but given it can technically contribute with KOs elsewhere (like with Z-Bounce or something), I will be merciful and keep it in E.

Ralts (Gallade)
Reasons for initial placement -stuck as Kirlia till Ultra Necrozma
What I actually experienced - keeping this in F-tier. Despite learning Charm at level 40 and Gallade having some use against some end-game bosses, I think the Kirlia phase is way too much for it. Charm comes very late and beating around two bosses isn't enough to offset the evo stage that is borderline useless and which you keep for most of the game. I could maybe raise it to E if someone wants to make a case for that, but I am gonna keep this in F for now.

Goomy
Reasons for initial placement - SOS encounter, terrible until Goodra, Goodra not having good performance
What I actually experienced - actually, once it evolves into Goodra, it becomes decent. It can be useful for the last Guzma fight (if you get it by that time), can OHKO Kommo-o with Specs Draco Meteor and is pretty useful for the E4, with Specs Flamethrower and Thunderbolt netting a good amount of KOs against Molayne and Kahili. Eviolite + Bide can also take down things like Persian if you need them KOed. Of course, Goomy is still not a good line for completing the games, but Goodra is good enough not to be in the bottom tier, so I will raise Goomy to E. Like Happiny, nothing higher, though.

Baltoy
Reasons for initial placement - SOS encounter, not particularly impressive
What I actually experienced - keeping this in E-tier. The only good matchup I managed to get out of this thing is Molayne, where it can easily sweep. Olivia was somewhat disappointing, but you can get a few KOs. You can also aim to get some KOs with Ice Beam against Kahili. But it won't be going in the same tier as Golett, which is objectively much better.

Granbull
Reasons for initial placement - very late, but could be useful with that Attack.
What I actually experienced - Granbull is borderline F-tier, but I am gonna keep it in E. It can reasonably contribute against Olivia #2 with Brick Break and Work Up, being able to KO 4/5 with offscreen healing. If it wasn't for that, it'd have been F, because it doesn't do much elsewhere.


Ledyba / Furfrou (dropped) / Eevee (Glaceon) / Vanillite / Krokorok / Carvanha / Poipole
Ledyba
Reasons for initial placement - virtually useless outside of fast screens
What I actually experienced - I tried Ledian on some advantageous matchups and, unfortunately, it wasn't good in those either. It simply lacks the power to land OHKOs and is generally frail itself. It can live one super effective hit from most Totems and thus set up the appropriate screen, but it's all around not something you want to use to beat boss fights, but rather to just help yourself with screens. Keeping this in E-tier.

Furfrou
Reasons for initial placement - nomination by other users
What I actually experienced - I dropped Furfrou at Poni Island as B is a consensus which I agree with. Furfrou can even beat Mimikyu with +1 Z-Iron Tail, only watch out for Banette's burns. It is good for most of Akala and the whole Melemele Island, with any bad matchup being mitigated by Charm / Baby-Doll Eyes. It can even sweep (albeit somewhat inefficiently) Olivia #1.

Eevee (Glaceon)
Reasons for initial placement - evolution locked behind Hapu.
What I actually experienced - so... as you may know, the Ice Rock is locked on the highest Mt. Lanakila floor, which means that I am essentially tiering Eevee. Eevee, on its own, provides two useful utilities:

1) early on, Adaptabilty Z-Last Resort is pretty powerful, so you can use it to weaken or KO bulkier opponents
2) it provides Baby-Doll Eyes and later on Charm support.

With those in mind, I am going to do something incredibly weird and raise Eevee (Glaceon) to E by technicality. Of course, if you tier off Glaceon phase only, it's an F-tier, as even Kahili is a bad matchup for it. But Eevee on its own is an E-tier because of the support it can provide, coupled with its pretty strong moves early on. Again, this is very weird and I think this is incredibly rare in in-game tiering afaik.

If you have a different opinion, feel free to speak up. I don't really mind Glaceon being either tier, but if I have to be objective, it's E-tier due to Eevee being an E-tier.

Vanillite
Reasons for initial placement - SOS encounter (in Hail), thinking it was bad
What I actually experienced - Vanillite is actually not so bad. I didn't notice that it learned Mirror Coat, which, combined with Sash, allows it to OHKO Ultra Necrozma (if it goes for Power Gem). In addition, Specs Blizzard with auto hail is pretty powerful, which was useful for Kahili (and Hapu if you wanna count easy fights). In addition, it OHKOs Kommo-o with Specs Frost Breath and 2HKOs Ribombee with the same move. All in all, Vanillite would be E-tier without Ultra Necrozma, but UN matchup makes it D-tier in my eyes, so I am gonna raise it all the way there. Of course, it being SOS and pretty late holds it back greatly, so it's not going anywhere higher.

Krokorok
Reasons for initial placement - nomination by another user
What I actually experienced - I am gonna raise Krokorok to D. Krokorok was more useful than I gave it credit for, as it managed to do well against most of the E4. It sweeps Molayne easily and can also sweep Olivia as well (slightly harder due to Cradily, though) and is good for the other fights. Unfortunately, the line is useless before the E4 and relies on RNG to sweep Hau, so I will keep it in D-tier for now, but I could maybe push it to C if people think it's better off there.

Carvanha
Reasons for initial placement - hoped it'd have a good matchup against one non-Acerola E4 member
What I actually experienced - unfortunately, Sharpedo is... terrible. It sucks for Hapu, interestingly, and it was bad for Olivia too, being able to take out only Armaldo and Probopass safely. Acerola seems to be its only acceptable matchup, but as I have noted in previous nominations, I don't consider Acerola enough to actually boost anything's tier, as you need to try to actually struggle against her. Dropping Carvanha to F-tier, since its join level is also pretty questionable, being from level 10-44 in normal spots. All in all, Carvanha comes late, can join underleveled (and it's in the Slow growth rate, so hf grinding with that) and has questionable performance. F-tier it is.

Poipole
Reasons for initial placement - very late arrival, level 40
What I actually experienced - I think I will raise Poipole to E, unless someone thinks it's better off in F-tier. While Poipole requires a lot to be brought to level 60-63, Naganadel is pretty good for the E4. It can crush most of Molayne's team, sweep Olivia with one healing, and also sweep Kahili. Again, I don't mind this being F-tier either, but I want to keep as few Pokemon out of F-tier as possible, so I will push Poipole one tier higher. It's not going anywhere higher, though.


Flabebe / Basculin (dropped) / Castform / Snorunt (Froslass) / Gabite / Wailmer / Tropius
Flabebe
Reasons for initial placement - terrible stats until Florges, no apparent good matchups
What I actually experienced - well, what I described above is pretty much what happened. The line never swept anything or beat any Totem. Instead, it only ever contributed with few KOs (sometimes only one). The closest to impressive matchup was Kommo-o, as Specs Moonblast 2HKOs through Roseli Berry, but it cannot really win anything without support or can only KO one or two things, in most cases.

I will keep this in F-tier for now. If someone feels like this deserves E (and not anything higher), I will most likely be generous and push it to E, but for now, I want this to stay in F-tier.

Basculin
Reasons for initial placement - two nominations that wanted it in C
What I actually experienced - I dropped this on Ula'Ula since I saw little point in using something for which there's a consensus already, especially when I agree with it. Anyways, it's all around strong, but it lacks the matchups to be any higher. C-tier it is

Castform
Reasons for initial placement - SOS availability, higher than 1% encounter rate only in hail/sandstorm
What I actually experienced - while the availability is terrible, even for SOS standards, Castform managed to impress me with just how usable this thing is. I consistently swept Guzma with it (Z-Sunny Day then spam Weather Ball, only hope Goli doesn't Sucker Punch), OHKOed Togedemaru with fire Weather Ball and could always get a few KOs at the League when it had the correct weather. All in all, I am going to raise Castform to E. This does not mean that one should actually go for a Castform, but if you do use it, you will actually find that it can be quite useful sometimes. In fact, it was my most useful member after I dropped Basculin.

Snorunt (Froslass)
Reasons for initial placement - Dawn Stone comes only after visiting Ultra Megalopolis
What I actually experienced - while being stuck with a Snorunt sucks, it doesn't need to be used too much, outside of till level 42, as you cancelling its evolution causes it to get more Exp. than normal. Anyways, Froslass has some very good end-game performance, being able to Psych Up and then OHKO Ribombee with Frost Breath and being incredibly useful for Hapu, Acerola, and Kahili. Of course, being stuck with Snorunt heavily penalizes it, but it's useful enough to not be F-tier, so Froslass will rise to E.

Gabite
Reasons for initial placement - it's complicated...
What I actually experienced - personally, I found Gabite somewhat meh, in terms of performance. It started being useful at the League for me, rather than before that, and it never really swept anything, although there's no denial that it could always claim at least three KOs per member. All in all, I still think E-tier would be more appropriate, but I will honor the other people's opinions and keep it in D.

Wailmer
Reasons for initial placement - extremely late arrival, only good matchups with super effective hits.
What I actually experienced - welp, this thing was worse than I expected. Despite the massive HP, it was often 2HKOed and sometimes 3HKOed even by route trainers. Against Hapu and Olivia, it could not get guaranteed OHKOs even with rain-boosted Scald. Given those issues, Wailmer will drop to F. This may seem harsh, but Wailmer does not provide enough efficiency to offset the late arrival, in my opinion.

Tropius
Reasons for initial placement - extremely late arrival, no seemingly good matchups
What I actually experienced - what I said above pretty much came true. Tropius was bad even in matchups with type advantage (or at the very least not reliable). Its best matchup is Acerola, where it can KO more than two things. The best thing Tropius managed to do is actually KO something. Keeping this in F-tier.


Slowpoke (Slowbro) / Shuppet / Bisharp / Corphish / Solgaleo / Lunala
Slowpoke (Slowbro)
Reasons for initial placement -the terrible Slowpoke phase, Slowbro not being too useful either
What I actually experienced - the Slowpoke period is bad, no one can deny that. When it evolves into Slowbro, it becomes slightly better. For example, it can actually OHKO Togedemaru with Hydro Vortex in rain (although if you get flinched, you lose). Unfortunately, after that, it will still suck till you reach Kommo-o, where the usual Psych Up strat comes into play. After Ribombee, Slowbro can generally contribute with KOs if it hits super effectively, but will never sweep. E-tier is fine for it, in my opinion, so not planning on changing its tier.

Shuppet
Reasons for initial placement - late availability, terrible stats, can only Curse
What I actually experienced - the above sums it up. It comes late, it's *very bad* even on the field ,and the only thing it can do is Curse on the remaining one-Pokemon fights (Totems and Ultra Necrozma). This is not going anywhere higher than E for sure. On the bright side, it levels up fast, so you don't have to use it too much to keep it up with your team, though it doesn't matter how underleveled it is, as long as it can live one hit from Kommo-o and Ribombee (and has Sash for Ultra Necrozma)

Bisharp
Reasons for initial placement -nomination from another user
What I actually experienced - agreed with C-tier. It can destroy a huge part of what is left of the game. It is not the most reliable thing, sometimes, or requires a bit more set up, but it's all around useful for the remainder of the game. If your starter is Litten, it is possible to sweep Hau without relying on misses; hold Focus Sash, Rock Polish once, heal up to avoid QA KO, then OHKO with Night Slash. Tauros triggers Defiant, fails to OHKO, and you set up a SD and proceed to sweep. This strategy may not be doable for other starters, as the AI will most likely prioritize throwing in Incineroar/Flareon. Nevertheless, C-tier it is

Corphish
Reasons for initial placement -very late arrival, flunctuating (like its experience group) join level, hopes that it can do something
What I actually experienced -unfortunately, Crawdaunt was worse than I thought. I caught my Corphish at a very high level, so didn't have to grind it too much, but you can always be unlucky and get a low-leveled one. Anyways, it's bad for the Elite Four, where at best you may find some use for it against Acerola and is also good for Hapu. Unfortunately, those two are the easiest fights and I don't think getting something that is so late and that can also be low leveled and thus hard to grind has any meaningful value to a run. Corphish will drop to F

Solgaleo

Reasons for initial placement -great stats and high join level, but very, very late arrival
What I actually experienced - for the five fights in which Solgaleo can participate, it was somewhat good. It can beat most of Molayne's team with Work Up + Flame Charge + Flare Blitz, completely destroys Olivia and Acerola, sweeps Kahili with little difficulty and, the most important thing, it sweeps Hau. Hau sweep happens like this: you Work Up twice on Raichu, which 4HKOs, then 2HKO it with Flame Charge (to gain Speed). Then you OHKO whatever is the Steel resist with Searing Sunraze Smash and then OHKO the rest with Sunsteel Strike. No healing required!

Anyways, given the sweep, I am going to keep Solgaleo in C-tier and establish it there if its ranking goes uncontested. I don't mind too much dropping it to D, but I think the Hau sweep solidified C-tier for me, at least.

Lunala
Reasons for initial placement -great stats and high join level, but very, very late arrival
What I actually experienced -Similarly to Solgaleo, Lunala wasn't too bad for whatever is left of the game. It beats most of Molayne's team and destroys Acerola and Kahili. Olivia is the closest to bad matchup, but you can stil ltake out at least three of her Pokemon there. Like Solgaleo, it can also potentially sweep Hau. Here's the log I have for the fight: CM on Raichu and spam Moongeist Beam (if his starter is Decidueye). You can either OHKO Vaporeon with Z-Moongeist (since it lives one Moongeist Beam) or you can save your Z-Move for Focus Blast on Tauros. It's better to simply nuke Vaporeon, as you can live one attack from Tauros and potentially KO back with Focus Blast, allowing you to sweep without healing

all in all, also keeping this in C-tier, unless someone wants to drop the box legendaries to D-tier. I personally liked Solgaleo more, I think it's the better of the two, overall, since it's much more powerful and more reliable for Hau.


Roggenrola (No Trade) E -> D - reasonably good for Olivia #1, Kahili, and Ribombee
Clamperl (Gorebyss) E -> D - while getting a Gorebyss is a tedious task (and that you can only get it pre-Marowak in one of the games only), it is incredibly powerful, being able to sweep various opponents and is useful for a bunch of Totems too.
Clamperl (Huntail) E -> D - not as powerful as Gorebyss, but nevertheless, it's better than most things in E-tier. Note that this change assumes playing on Ultra Sun, as UM locks Huntail behind SOS/Poni Breaker Coast
Bagon E -> D - while 1% sucks if you want it as early as possible, Shelgon is good for Olivia #1 and Salamence is great for the end-game, taking down Ribombee, Kommo-o, Molayne, and most of Kahili's team.
Trapinch E -> C - useful for Nanu and can sweep the entire E4 + Hau, though may require healing at places.
Corsola F -> E - Mirror Coat gives it a niche for Ultra Necrozma. Also good for Marowak and Olivia, but it's rare (5%) and requires heavy backtrack. Also useless after Olivia, though you could set up Reflect with it.
Larvitar E -> D - similarly to Bagon, NFE stage has some uses and Tyranitar is very good for the end-game.
Absol F -> E - Perish Song at level 57 gives it a niche against Ultra Necrozma, but it's awful elsewhere
Golett E -> D - better than Gabite, which is D, as it takes on opponents like Molayne and Olivia much better than it and can also provide Curse for the Poni boss fights.
Happiny F -> E - terribly hard to find, but Charm utility + being able to 1v1 all special attackers like Persian give it some niche
Goomy F -> E - terrible to find and train until Goodra, but Goodra is very good, being very strong for most of the remaining bosses.
Eevee (Glaceon) F -> E - rises due to technicality, Eevee on its own is an E-tier due to BDEyes / Charm + strong Normal STAB early on
Vanillite F -> D - annoying to find due to SOS, but it can take down Ultra Necrozma and is useful for a number of matchups
Krokorok E -> D - good E4 performance, but useless outside of that.
Poipole F -> E - usable as Naganadel, which has a good E4 performance
Castform F -> E - really hard to find (you need your own sand / hail if you don't want SOS off 1%), but useful in a number of matchups
Snorunt (Froslass) F -> E - stuck as a Snorunt for quite a bit, but Froslass is good for some end-game bosses and Glalie isn't really an improvement.


Dhelmise D -> E - rare and very fluctuating join level, only good relevant matchup is Ribombee (also good for Hapu and maybe Acerola)
Clawitzer D -> E - struggles with any matchup that isn't hit super effectively by Clawitzer's STAB, which is only Hapu and Olivia #2
Sableye E -> F - has no good niche whatsoever, consistently dies while being outsped and doesn't hit hard in return
Carvanha E -> F - no good meaningful matchups, also can come pretty underleveled.
Wailmer E -> F - read the above, but omit the level part
Corphish E -> F read Carvanha


Growlithe establish to C
Bisharp establish to C



Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma will be put on a timer and, if uncontested, will be established in C-tier.


Those will be in effect following a slate that I will create on the 30th June and which will be applied on the next day. If you want to get your nominations in, please make them before or around that time

I want to say we are one step closer to concluding the list. Around 35-40% of the list is pretty much done, with the lower tiers more or less established (bar some potential exceptions) and some of the higher tiers being established. I hope we can continue at the current pace, as the way we currently go, we could be done within a few months.

I will continue testing, mainly the rest of the untested lower tiers and I will start testing the more controversial cases should they arise. In addition, I may retest Pokemon that I have used like three years ago (like Gigalith / Zam) to get a more modern perspective, which will certainly affect their fnal rankings.
 
Solid work, I'm on mobile so I'll keep it short but I agree with flabebe in f. I would put florges in E if you caught it on poni island, but dragging that crap through the whole game is painfull just for it to be kinda usefull for kommo-o.
 
Alrighty, Guzma 1 and Totem Mimikyu are down!
Guzma 1 (Lv. 35): You drop to First Impression. But hey, if you get to Masquerain without taking the intimidate you can maybe OHKO it (it's a roll lol)! Except you probably get outsped because it has a higher base stat and 252 EVs and it has a roll to OHKO you. Terrible matchup.
Totem Mimikyu (Lv. 40): You actually don't get one shot! If you get in after Disguise is popped, Crunch + Sucker Punch almost kills, so that's something I guess?

Guzma 1 (Lv 35): The best you can do is Z-Rock Tomb Golisopod to trigger Emergency Exit (you outspeed it) and then get a Rock Tomb off on Masquerain (which nearly kills) before dying. Not as bad as Raticate but not impressive either. Actually, I didn't think to try this, but I think this actually could be a clean sweep if you activate Guts beforehand? In that case it's a great matchup that depends on some setup. Sorry this didn't occur to me sooner so I could test it.
Totem Mimikyu (Lv. 40): All you do is get off either a Knock Off or Bulldoze before dying.

Guzma 1 (Lv. 35/36 after 1 kill): Inconsistent matchup; depends on your moveset, Sleep Powder RNG, and whether Golisopod Sucker Punches or Razor Shells. One option is with Giga/Growth/Sleep/Venoshock. You need to get to +4 or +5 (depends on your Sp.Atk, mine is Impish so it would need +5) and be at above 70% to safely beat Masquerain. The other one is using Z-Sunny Day in place of Venoshock. That one sets up slightly faster but depends on good Sleep Powder RNG for Masquerain. I have a feeling it might be more consistent, though. The +1 Speed seems to make Golisopod Sucker you a lot more than the other strat.
Totem Mimikyu (Lv. 41): It does a bit less than half with Shadow Claw, but you just can't win a damage race with it, even with Choice Specs.

Guzma 1 (Lv. 35): Air Cutter to force out Golisopod, take about 30% from Bug Buzz and OHKO with SSSS, take about 45% from Sucker and finish with another Air Cutter. Pretty clean matchup.
Totem Mimikyu (Lv. 41): You do get outsped and the first Play Rough does over half, so all you're getting is either a Feather Dance and Disguise break or two Feather Dances. That does really take the sting out of Mimikyu's attacks, though, so I wouldn't say it's a total failure of a matchup.
Also, it is SO nice having Revelation Dance. Having a STAB move, what a concept!

Guzma 1 (Lv. 35): Disappointing. Golisopod is a thicc boi and you need a Sunny Day Z-Move to trigger Emergency Exit, and you'll still take like 70% from Razor Shell in the process so Masquerain kills you.
Totem Mimikyu (Lv. 40): Amazingly, Shadow Claw is not a 2HKO, but with Banette you still die in 2 turns. Z-Fire Fang does about 50% outside of sun. Not fantastic.

So, first thing's first, it's fairly annoying to get a decently leveled one with Strong Jaw (I assume that's what you want? I mean, Dazzling could troll Golisopod or something, but more Crunch/Psychic Fang power seems better). But once you do, it does alright for itself against normal trainers. On the other hand, if I'm waiting more than half the game for it I'm looking for more than "alright" on routes, especially when it's first important fight goes as such...
Totem Mimikyu (Lv. 38): You get outsped and OHKO'd. You can Aqua Jet to break Disguise, I guess? Even if you break it's Disguise and lower its attack to take a hit, Z-Iron Tail into Aqua Jet doesn't kill at this level. Also, don't get Iron Tail, it's a waste of 12 BP. You're literally better off teaching it Aqua Tail if you caught yours below the level it learns it (like I did) so it trains a bit more easily.
 
The run has finished with my final team at Lv 63-66.

My final team: :Mimikyu: :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: :Salazzle: :Metagross: :Primarina: :Magnezone:

:Mimikyu: should remain at B. Despite the slightly late arrival, it is able to use its Hone Claws to do something for almost every boss fight, notably performing well against Totem Kommo'o. It being able to KO at least 2 or 3 members of every Elite 4 member except Molayne (where it snagged a KO against Magnezone via +1 Z Shadow Claw but barely did not KO Metagross). It was also able to take down Hapu's Flygon and easily defeat Hau's Alolan Raichu. Its defensive typing is also quite good, with its weaknesses patched up by the S-tier Mudsdale.

:Metagross: should rise to high C or low B. The Metang phase, though slightly arduous, is manageable due to Eviolite and tutor moves Thunder Punch and Iron Head, but when it evolves, things begin getting fun, KOing many of Lusamine's Pokemon, being one of the few Pokemon to wall Ultra Necrozma after a Roto Boost and almost OHKOing Totem Ribombee. Moving on to the Elite Four, it can sweep Olivia and takes down at least 2 Pokemon on Molayne's team. It was also able to take down the otherwise incredibly dangerous Hau's Tauros, as well as his Noivern. Steel's resists are too brilliant to pass up on, and though it is weak to common attacking types like Ground, it learns coverage moves like Ice Punch to circumvent it. After all, it is a pseudo legend, and most tend to be brutally powerful.

:Primarina: should drop to high B tier. Despite it being arguably the best starter, Primarina has a large amount of problems. It first struggles with a grand total of 3 of Akala's 3 trials (thanks to Detect Alolan Marowak), then proceeds to contribute nothing to the trials of Ula'ula and Poni. Its Defense stat is terrible leading to neutral physical attacks 2HKOing it, and combined with its horrendous speed, it is unable to put in much work except against opponents that it can hit super-effectively. For instance, Earthquake from Hapu's Mudsdale did upwards of 60% to the mermaid. Though its Special Defense stat is good, there are better specially defensive Pokemon such as Mimikyu (it was able to take 2 Shadow Balls from Froslass by the way). Therefore, it is arguably the worst member of my final team, though its Water typing is good for Alola in general.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
should rise to high C or low B.
I want a clarification on which tier you actually want it to be, since high C/C+ and low B/B- aren't a thing in this list (and spoiler: they won't be either), and I have no means of knowing which tier you are leaning towards.

Anyways, I will remove one of Mimikyu's asterisks right now, but I will leave it with one asterisk till I use it. Popplio, I will use it myself in the near future and will decide its final ranking, since the opinions regarding Popplio seem conflicting
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I will include Beldum in the next slate, but I won't be removing the asterisk just yet, I'd like an additional test to establish the tier, mostly so it's 100% clear that this is a consensus.
 
I just finished a US run the other day. Here are my observations.

Started the game w/ Litten. I ran Sun w/ Popplio. Popplio is the overall better choice I believe (only tried Popplio in Sun) for both games, but honestly, compared to other games, I found them somewhat lackluster and boring. I don't know if they should be A or B but they're certainly far away from S/SS/SSS.

For a short while, I considered pretending there was a fourth starter choice in Grubbin/Charjabug/Vikavolt but ended up foregoing for some reason.
Btw, based on my previous experiences (played all games except RS remakes, XY, BW2), I try to keep a lean team of 3-5 mons.

From time to time I will strongly consider the total exp. required for leveling, as out-leveling all future trainers is my main strategy.
With the exception of the very beginning where I grind my starter to out-level the coming trainers, I never grind levels in the grass/water/caves.
I'm not playing some MMORPG. I have other things to do and I'm too impatient.
Picking then flexible and cheap, low maintenance pokémon with powerful STAB move(s), good potential coverage, and relevant stats mitigates the need for perfect typing. If you're Hawlucha is level 60 and meets level 48s it doesn't really matter if Bounce isn't super effective. This is even more pronounced when there's an overpowered stat move like Swords Dance available that allows for total sweeps Haxorus BW style.
A lean team allows for higher levels, quicker. The best exp groups to do this are the flat ones that require the least, which means foregoing Erratic and staying with Fast and Medium-Fast groups. Albeit I tend to keep my starter, who's medium slow, and maybe a Snorlax if the game allows, that's in the Slow group, unfortunately.

So the optimal choice is lean, fast+medium fast groups, good moves.
The US iteration of Exp. Share incentivizes the player to fill all 6 slots to make use of all that 50% exp., if not, a lot of exp. would go to waste in a vacuum. Anyway, for what it's worth, the player can just still rotate 3-4 mons and keep random mons that are a potion/revive shield when in a pinch. You don't necessarily have to rotate and train all 6 with battle experience.

Looking at overall stats there's one dark horse that I had previously ignored that was suggested to me by Ryota Mitarai in Wishiwashi.
If over-leveled, which is extremely easy with a Fast Exp. mon like Wishiwashi, you're not really going to drop under 25%. So it's a bargain.
For me, that just sets the tone for all future runs if I'm to do a run again. It's a big ask, however, as I don't particularly enjoy US because of the forced hand-holding and the incessant animations and irrelevant dialogues. UX-wise, there really should have been a strong consideration of letting the player be prompted and asked if they're a veteran player so that they can forgo a lot of eg. the clips especially at the beginning of the game. BW in that sense was many magnitudes more enjoyable.

Team used:
• Litten/Incineroar (Sassy) [Slow-Medium]
• Hawlucha (Docile, Limber) [Fast-Medium]
• Munchlax/Snorlax (Careful, Thick Fat) [Slow]
• Mudbray/Mudsdale (Hasty) [Fast-Medium]
• Wishiwashi (Jolly) [Fast]

• Cutiefly/Ribombee (Potion-bitch)(Paralyze lead for catching)

In retrospect, I should have not had such a discrepancy between Exp. groups. Wishiwashi's speed of growth made me overuse Incineroar as a lead to keep up and use Snorlax only sporadically. Incineroar and Snorlax should have been left out. Wishiwashi is that important. I would definitely place both Hawlucha and Mudbray in the upper echelons of the tiers for sure. Not exactly convinced who's the overall better one, maybe Hawlucha because it's strong right off the bat and later Swords Dance, but I feel like Mudbray offers a wider variety of options and can set up really nicely into a sweep with 1 Iron defense and his Stamina. Maybe Mudbray is a bit more passive and Hawlucha can outspeed and get first-mover advantage on more mons, however, this is most relevant if he can ensure OHKO instead of tanking hits unnecessarily. Back to Incineroar, one thing he has going for him is Outrage for the Dragon Trial and Ultra Necrozma. A lot can be said about Snorlax, but he pulls his weight (pun intented) when it matters. He serves as an excellent Special wall even when under-leveled with just Amnesia, especially with the Leftovers to boot. If I would run with him again I'd set a up a leaner team of maybe 4, even 3, mons. More towards 3.

Litten A/B
Too slow. Decent movepool, lacks the oomph.
Wishiwashi for S
Probably the most cost-efficient mon in the game because of Schooling stats. Decent moves, ditch Aqua Ring and Endeavor.
Can learn Ice Beam, EQ, Return Scald, U-Turn.
Hawlucha stays S
Typing is *chef's kiss*, Swords Dance. Not much to add. Wrecks trials.
Mudbray stays S
Iron Defense, EQ. Very good overall.
Snorlax for A
Because he pulls off insane walling especially in later parts of the game.

If I do a future run it will be:
• Wishiwashi
• Bewear (new kind of Snorlax, special defense problem would have to be solved with something else).
• +2-3 mons from Fast/Medium-Fast groups (suggestions welcome).
An electric one would be strong I think. Probably Magnezone (A/B), albeit wonky start.

I did not use stat-raising items, nor any Rare Candies at all.
Elite 4 was a breeze.
 
Last edited:

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Thank you for the post, this is pretty detailed!

the first thing I am gonna say is that I am establishing Munchlax and Magnemite to their respective tiers. Munchlax, I am not sure what other people think, but I have used it and Snorlax is stupidly broken here. My biggest issue when I used it was that I had to heal often to win, but this thing can even sweep Olivia #1, if you wanted it to (it also OHKOed Mimikyu with Z-Heavy Slam). Magnemite, I said I am giving it some time, but, honestly, it's been months, and there's an overwhelming consensus that it's A-tier and that its early-game is terrible, at this point, I am filibustering and delaying the inevitable. Not to mention that I am not gonna be convinced of any S-tier nominations at this point due to my and other people's experience with it.

Since you mentioned Cutiefly, I am gonna establish it in B-tier. It was used here and while the run is stated to be casual, I think B-tier is perfect for Cutiefly. Cutiefly has a good matchup against Hala, Nanu, and Lurantis, while also being capable of sweeping Hau (which I rate highly). Of course, it will get walled constantly due to Bug / Fairy being resisted often (especially at the E4, where it's hit super effectively by 3/4 of it), but it covers some of the harder bosses like Hala and Hau in one, so I am willing to just establish it there.

Litten A/B
I've heard some bad things about Litten. I have "tested" in the past, but I have no memories of it whatsoever. With that said, an additional test by someone else + another test by me are needed for Litten to be established somewhere.

Wishiwashi for S
not exactly surprised, a few days ago, I thought of Endeavor strats, which I never took advantage of when I used it. I want someone else to give Wishiwashi a try before I say S-tier and I am may also use it if someone else says S-tier (or maybe A-tier as well, so I can get some modern-day perspective anyways). If there's more support for S, I will consider this, but for now, Wishiwashi is on a watch. If someone is looking into doing a(nother) test run, please consider Wishiwashi.

If I do a future run it will be:
first, I'd like to ask you to use something else over Magnezone, since I am not putting it anywhere else at this point. You can use anything you want, obviously, just that it'd be more useful if you tested something else that needs some testing

• +2-3 mons from Fast/Medium-Fast groups (suggestions welcome).
Since you are playing Ultra Sun, I would be really happy if you used the Totem Marowak. You get it after 40 Totem stickers. The 40th one is obtained at Route 8, meaning that its first matchup is going to be Lurantis. When using Totem Marowak (or Cubone), it is crucially important that you steal the boss Totem's Thick Club with Thief (with something else, obviously). If you do this, you get to keep the Thick Club and, as an added bonus, you make the fight easier, so this is arguably a positive for Marowak (lol). If you don't do that, you have to itemhunt a Thick Club.

The test is mainly an S vs A one. It is incredibly powerful, but it skips like five fights due to its availability. For the record, DrumstickingGaming has used it and is also fine with S-tier. I am personally ok with it too, but I am open to dropping this to A-tier if it doesn't perform well enough to offset the availablity thing completely. Although it is worth mentioning that "late S-tiers" aren't unheard of in in-game tiering (see RBY/FRLG Jynx and HGSS Gyarados), but those tend to be absolute game destroyers when you get them.

For other members, Pikipek/Zubat/Wingull from A-tier can certainly receive more testing. If you want some more "rank variety", Spearow/Totem Gumshoos (this has Adaptability, ftr, which is why it's one tier above Yungoos currently), Honedge (if you can use the Island Scan), and Murkrow are also some options that can be tested out, if you are interested in any of them. Also, I know you said you don't want to use more than five Pokemon, but, if you want to, you could add Barboach as a 6th teammate and never use it on the field. This is cause it's an in-game trade, so it can keep up with most of your team without being used too much.

anyways, I hope you do another run, but even if you don't, that's understandable and I found this one very useful, so thank you!

e: unrelated, but I have a run going with Zam / Gigalith / Wimpod / Pidgeot / Prinplup / Chesnaught. Zam is a test for A vs B, Gigalith is a retest due to seeing C as a possibility, Wimpod is a retest due to being nominated to C earlier, Prinplup is because I am very doubtful of B-tier right now, and Pidgeot and Chesnaught are leftovers from the mega slate that I haven't used yet. I will make a separate post, hopefully within two days so that I can feature them in the upcoming slate.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top