Look forward to your re-test of Krokorok. I personally found it to be my best sweeper.
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Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon In-Game Tier list (v2)
- Thread starter Ryota Mitarai
- Start date
I just finished another run with team: rowlett, dugtrio, metagross, vikavolt, talonflame, staryu. Its a fun team to play and eventually quite powerful. As a whole the team comes rather late. The lack of fairy type was hard vs tanky dragons.
Also not having a fighting type was hard on tanky normal enemies.
Rowlett was fine al around, but felt vulnerable for its typing.
Dugtrio was surprisingly good, with earthquake and ironhead doing a lot of work. But he cant take much damage.
Metagross felt like my most clunky pokemon. He felt redundant, and died a lot more than i was expecting. He looks bulky, but took damage easily.
Vikavolt i was expecting to hate, but turned out better than expected. Maybe my best pokemon. His thunderbolt could take out almost any enemy. Surprisingly tanky as well. But hes quite slow and almost always moves 2nd.
Talonflame is fun to use and looks cool. But really he was just a spammer of acrobatic attack. He didnt do much else for me. Any bird couldve done the same role.
Staryu didnt hit as hard as i hoped, often left enemies with 5% hp left. Was quite vulnerable to dark moves and took a lot of damage. But moveset was fun and varied.
Also not having a fighting type was hard on tanky normal enemies.
Rowlett was fine al around, but felt vulnerable for its typing.
Dugtrio was surprisingly good, with earthquake and ironhead doing a lot of work. But he cant take much damage.
Metagross felt like my most clunky pokemon. He felt redundant, and died a lot more than i was expecting. He looks bulky, but took damage easily.
Vikavolt i was expecting to hate, but turned out better than expected. Maybe my best pokemon. His thunderbolt could take out almost any enemy. Surprisingly tanky as well. But hes quite slow and almost always moves 2nd.
Talonflame is fun to use and looks cool. But really he was just a spammer of acrobatic attack. He didnt do much else for me. Any bird couldve done the same role.
Staryu didnt hit as hard as i hoped, often left enemies with 5% hp left. Was quite vulnerable to dark moves and took a lot of damage. But moveset was fun and varied.
New game team is Incineroar, Raichu, Tentacruel, whiscash, toucannon, pancham. I was actually planning on substituting in vulpix but then realized its only in Sun.
Raichu took a while to evolve, i waited until thunderbolt. Fun to use but felt underpowered.
Tentacruel levels up slow which is annoying. But its dual typing is useful and underrated. Not a huge hitter, but pretty reliable stabs.
Whiscash is insanely good and should be high on the tier list. It gets magnitude and earthquake so early and it feels overpowered. Almost no weaknesses. Good water moves too, and varied coverage moves. Basically its mudkip
Toucannon is pretty standard and reliable bird pokemon, useful against all those fighting types. Some nice coverage moves too, but not too useful. It cant learn acrobatic, which is a huge letdown.
Pancham is powerful and has the most varied coverage moves. Bulldoze, rock tomb, aerial ace, grass gnot, steel punch, it seems like it can learn anything! Decently good speed, heavy hitter. I feel this should at least be on par with makuhita.
Raichu took a while to evolve, i waited until thunderbolt. Fun to use but felt underpowered.
Tentacruel levels up slow which is annoying. But its dual typing is useful and underrated. Not a huge hitter, but pretty reliable stabs.
Whiscash is insanely good and should be high on the tier list. It gets magnitude and earthquake so early and it feels overpowered. Almost no weaknesses. Good water moves too, and varied coverage moves. Basically its mudkip
Toucannon is pretty standard and reliable bird pokemon, useful against all those fighting types. Some nice coverage moves too, but not too useful. It cant learn acrobatic, which is a huge letdown.
Pancham is powerful and has the most varied coverage moves. Bulldoze, rock tomb, aerial ace, grass gnot, steel punch, it seems like it can learn anything! Decently good speed, heavy hitter. I feel this should at least be on par with makuhita.
Whoa I just noticed Flabebe is on the F tier. How is that possible? I used it several times for run throughs and it was always one of my best pokemon. Get it early, powerful fairy moves, easy to level up, avoids grass typing weakness but gets some useful grass moves. Moonblast works on a ton of neutral typing. But its a lifesaver against the many dark, dragon, fighting types.
Why is it a F? Should be B or A to me. Its so useful in many matchups.
Why is it a F? Should be B or A to me. Its so useful in many matchups.
Because Flabebe is terrible in major battles. You are stuck with a Floette until basically Poni Island (you get Shiny Stone either after beating Nanu or after fighting Lusamine, depending on your game version). Floette's only remotely good matchup is Nanu and even that one isn't a sweep if I recall correctly. Hell, even Kommo-o is a bad matchup for Florges, even if you resort to Z-Psych Up. In terms of major battles, there are essentially very few places where you can put Flabebe to a good use. The fact that Cleffa performs better than it (and Cleffa is far from even being a decent Pokemon) is a pretty good indicator of Flabebe's lack of significant contributions
I probably have to mention that Makuhita comes two islands earlier and also performs well in those (at least if you manage to get Hariyama for Araquanid). Hariyama also boasts a better bulk, which is fairly important in USUM. I think a two tier difference is pretty appropriate, but someone can disagree with me.
The rest are more-or-less close to what they have been agreed to do, though Whiscash is slightly worse than Marshtomp (as Swampert has a few more good matchups) which explains the tier difference between them. Tentacool is bad mostly because of the investment you mentioned and it not having that many good matchups (its main perk is facilitating Totem matchups with Acid Spray)
anyways, posting to say that I had some run from a long time ago that I never finished and decided to knock it out before starting any new runs. The run in question had Jolteon, Sylveon, Miltank, Magmar, Golem, and the Totem Togedemaru. Can provide some logs for whoever is interested, but I am a bit lazy right now, so won't provide them in the post
Jolteon
This thing honestly turned out to be better than I last used it. As a matter of fact, I think it's better than Magnemite in some regards and could maybe have considerations for A-tier. To compare Magnemite and Jolteon:
Araquanid - Magnemite straight up loses here, Jolteon has a good chance of winning, as long as you get at least one Charge Beam boost (you live two attacks)
Marowak - both are bad here
Lurantis - both can win here with AI derp (both 2HKO with Silverpowder Signal Beam)
Olivia - Magneton is better here, Jolteon has a hard time sweeping
Togedemaru - both are untouchable here and do not deal much damage in return to Togedemaru, making both slowfests
Guzma #1 - both sweep here, though Magneton is slightly more reliable here
Mimikyu - Magnezone is much better here
Guzma #2 - same as Guzma #1,
Nanu - Jolteon is better here, as it is capable of sweeping, although it needs healing to do so
Guzma #3 - neither seems capable of sweeping here, both perform roughly the same
Kommo-o - both are bad here
Ultra Necrozma - Magnezone is better here, but requires two Roto Boosts and one healing to win
Ribombee - Magnezone is better
Hapu - neither is particularly good here, even with Magnet Rise in the case of Magnezone
Molayne - Jolteon is better here due to sweeping the whole fight, though Zone takes out a few Pokemon
Olivia - Magnezone is better
Acerola - both are good here, I don't remember if Magnezone could get past Palossand, though
Kahili - both are great Pokemon here, though Jolteon pretty much demolishes the fight
Hau - both take out a few Pokemon here
Marowak - both are bad here
Lurantis - both can win here with AI derp (both 2HKO with Silverpowder Signal Beam)
Olivia - Magneton is better here, Jolteon has a hard time sweeping
Togedemaru - both are untouchable here and do not deal much damage in return to Togedemaru, making both slowfests
Guzma #1 - both sweep here, though Magneton is slightly more reliable here
Mimikyu - Magnezone is much better here
Guzma #2 - same as Guzma #1,
Nanu - Jolteon is better here, as it is capable of sweeping, although it needs healing to do so
Guzma #3 - neither seems capable of sweeping here, both perform roughly the same
Kommo-o - both are bad here
Ultra Necrozma - Magnezone is better here, but requires two Roto Boosts and one healing to win
Ribombee - Magnezone is better
Hapu - neither is particularly good here, even with Magnet Rise in the case of Magnezone
Molayne - Jolteon is better here due to sweeping the whole fight, though Zone takes out a few Pokemon
Olivia - Magnezone is better
Acerola - both are good here, I don't remember if Magnezone could get past Palossand, though
Kahili - both are great Pokemon here, though Jolteon pretty much demolishes the fight
Hau - both take out a few Pokemon here
I think there could maybe be some consideration for A-tier, but I will let someone else test it and tell me if they can get roughly the same matchups without much effort. I think the biggest issue with Jolteon is that it has a few gaps between its good matchups which can make it look bad.
Sylveon
likely staying C-tier, I remember at one point contemplating B-tier for it, but this run convinced me that C-tier is correct for it. A lot of gaps between its good matchups and some of the good matchups aren't particularly straightforward. It did sweep Hau, to my surprise, though.
Miltank
likely staying C-tier. It's not particularly easy to find and use, but it has some very interesting matchups (like having a strong matchup against Marowak if you have Scrappy and sweeping both Olivia fights). C-tier sounds more appropriate than D-tier
Magby (Magmar)
Likely staying in B-tier. While its performance is a bit worse than other Fire-types (since it has no fancy dual typing), its access to Clear Smog makes it useful against matchups like Mimikyu and Kommo-o by removing their stats (though you have to keep it throughout the entire game, forfeiting a moveslot for it). Its E4 performance was pretty meh, though.
Golem
Likely keeping this in C-tier, after some consideration. It has around five good matchups in total (Guzma #2 and #3, Ribombee, Acerola, and Kahili). Ribombee isn't 100% reliable since it relies on Ribombee not attacking turn one. While far from the best Pokemon in C-tier, it does have more good matchups than most Pokemon in C-tier, so will leave this up here unless someone wants to challenge it. I may consider raising Electivire and Manectric as well, but we will see
Totem Togedemaru
I will be retesting the normal Togedemaru. The Totem variant's Sturdy ended up not being particularly needed and I want to see if I can replicate some of the matchups the Totem had with the normal one. In summary, it's okay for Guzma, beats Kommo-o with Endeavor + Spiky Shield, can beat Ultra Necrozma with offscreen healing (didn't need Focus Sash here!) and performs well against Kahili, Ribombee, Olivia, and Acerola. If I can replicate the same matchups with the normal one (which can also OHKO Mimikyu if Disguise is broken with something else), Togedemaru is very likely rising to B-tier.
next run will be Charmander / Mankey / Kingdra / normal Togedemaru / Klefki / Krokorok. Charmander is there mostly for fun, since I enjoyed using it and want a modern perspective on it, Mankey and Krokorok will be the main subjects and the rest are Pokemon I am conveniently retesting for modern perspective
Well F is literally the worst pokemon in the entire dex. Is it really THAT bad? I really don't think so. I think its strong fairy moves are very helpful in a quick efficiency run. Getting it early is a huge benefit to efficiency. Give it a Eviolite and really I don't think it deserves an F.
I used Flabebe in a number of runs, and I always felt it was a very reliable and useful pokemon.
-Strong Fairy moves (early)
-Literally Fairy Wind until Level 46 Moonblast
-wut
Yeah I think Flabebe deserves to be among the worst Pokémon in the game. Evolving so late is already terrible but you have 54/47/98 bulk until Florges which is post Nanu at best (basically right around the same time as Moonblast) and the good Special Defense means literally nothing until then because most bosses in this game outside Araquanid are predominantly physical. And even when you’re fully evolved, Kommo-o will eat it hard thanks to Roseli Berry and Poison Jab, Ultra Necrozma nukes it, Ribombee has massive bulk so it’s kinda a stalemate, and it doesn’t really have a standout E4 performance either.
Look, I’m all for giving overlooked Pokémon a fair shake but Flabebe is just bad any way you slice it, and USUM is a game you really need Pokémon fully evolved as fast as possible to not get brutalized by bosses.
Just did 1 more test run, this time my team was Incineroar, Slowbro, Crobat, Ninetales (Sylveon until Ninetales was available), Mudsdale, Vikavolt.
Incineroar is incredibly useful, and while maybe he isn't S tier himself, I feel he is actually the best starter to pick. Not only does he provide the much needed Dark type, his fire moves and brick break are great also. Most importantly, there are so many good water types to pick from, so its better to save the water type for the wild pokemon.
Slowbro was worse than I expected. His physical attack stats don't match his special attack moves. And of course he is slow. Eventually he hits decently hard enough...but somehow he felt like my liability.
Crobat was all around fast, useful, and wide range of moves. As expected, Acrobat is strong and overpowered. Crobat also has great poison moves to deal with the fairy types.
Sylveon was fairly easy to get, and got strong fairy moves quite early. Fairy is such a good typing to deal with those strong dragons and fighters and dark types. I felt Sylveon was better than Ninetales, but I wanted to have fun with ice.
Ninetales was quite underleveled and needed a lot of work. Eventually, it was a pretty hard hitter and could be super effective on almost every single enemy. In this sense, it was my most fun pokemon to use. It can hit anything, and it looks nice doing it. But being ice, it also takes a lot of damage. And it can't quite 1HKO as wel as Sylveon.
Mudscale of course is crazy good. It can hit anything hard, and survive a lot of punishment.
Vikavolt is a bit of a 1 hit wonder, but thunderbolt is cool.
Incineroar is incredibly useful, and while maybe he isn't S tier himself, I feel he is actually the best starter to pick. Not only does he provide the much needed Dark type, his fire moves and brick break are great also. Most importantly, there are so many good water types to pick from, so its better to save the water type for the wild pokemon.
Slowbro was worse than I expected. His physical attack stats don't match his special attack moves. And of course he is slow. Eventually he hits decently hard enough...but somehow he felt like my liability.
Crobat was all around fast, useful, and wide range of moves. As expected, Acrobat is strong and overpowered. Crobat also has great poison moves to deal with the fairy types.
Sylveon was fairly easy to get, and got strong fairy moves quite early. Fairy is such a good typing to deal with those strong dragons and fighters and dark types. I felt Sylveon was better than Ninetales, but I wanted to have fun with ice.
Ninetales was quite underleveled and needed a lot of work. Eventually, it was a pretty hard hitter and could be super effective on almost every single enemy. In this sense, it was my most fun pokemon to use. It can hit anything, and it looks nice doing it. But being ice, it also takes a lot of damage. And it can't quite 1HKO as wel as Sylveon.
Mudscale of course is crazy good. It can hit anything hard, and survive a lot of punishment.
Vikavolt is a bit of a 1 hit wonder, but thunderbolt is cool.
okay so finished the run with my aforementioned team and here are the results (with logs!). Some of the endgame matchups are missing, this means that I either didn't test it thoroughly or found nothing interesting.
Charmander
As I said, I used Charmander mostly for fun, the main point of this run was to see if I could find simpler strategies against opponents like Nanu and Mimikyu (and I did manage to do that). Charmander is a fun Pokemon to use, though its occassional reliance on unreliable strategies and a few outright bad matchups do prevent an S-tier
Mankey
Yeah, I am not convinced this has to go to B and I think its initial placement of C-tier is correct. Outside of taking a while before Mankey starts having good matchups, its fraility caused me tons of issues later in the game. It doesn't help that one of its good matchups, Lurantis, requires effort on your part to evolve it by that point (and I have certainly failed to reach such levels in the past). Its matchups are fit for C-tier
With that said, though, I decided to compare it to Machoke and, upon revision of logs, I concluded that Mankey and Machoke do not belong to the same tier; while Mankey has its issues, it is outright superior and has many more matchups than it. Machoke's matchups are severely lacking and for this it will drop to D-tier to correct this (Machoke is basically good against Olivia, Lurantis if evolved, and occassionally does other stuff; Togedemaru is shaky due to Dedenne's Charm).
Horsea (Trade)
Kingdra was placed around the time the list was still in a prototype-like stage and when tiering standards for the list were rather loose. As a result, for a long time, Kingdra was placed in a tier that I now believe is too high for it. Outside of the time investment for obtaining the Dragonscale, Kingdra's performance is pretty bad at places and has consistently missed KOs that it really shouldn't be missing. Combine it with Horsea being one of the weakest Water-types for Akala, I think D-tier is more than appropriate for it. As a matter of fact, I may consider even dropping the Horsea line to E-tier, but I will think about it first before doing that.
Klefki
(note: some of the endgame logs are taken directly from old logs out of sheer laziness)
Klefki was tiered in a time when it wasn't even placed on the list (since the list started out only with some of the Pokemon placed) so at that time, I prioritized getting it placed somewhere with the idea of retesting it later on. Fortunately, this test run convinced me that C-tier is correct and it will be remaining in this tier. It requires little investment thanks to its Fast experience group and is generally very useful in fights. I was pleased that it managed to beat Ultra Necrozma using just one Roto Boost and one Full Restore. It's not super simple to use (since you do need a bit of thinking to utilize to its best) but it's certainly a pretty fun Pokemon to use and very effective at what it does.
Togedemaru
I am happy to announce that Togedemaru will be rising to B-tier. Its performance not only replicated the Totem variant's, but the normal one also managed to beat Mimikyu (at least if you break Disguise with something else first). Togedemaru is a pretty good example of a late-game Pokemon that is very good. It has several good matchups and that is against some of the most difficult foes (like Ultra Necrozma). Obviously, it's not a "mash A button" Pokemon, but it never felt unreliable, which is a good thing for its ranking.
Krokorok
i am a bit on the fence regarding Krokorok, but I am leaning towards keeping it where it currently resides, given it has previously been nominated for D-tier and this run didn't give me enough reasons to change its tier. Krookodile is straight up unreliable until the E4, as many of its only "good" matchups before that rely on a few things going right. Three sweeps at the E4 is far from bad, but it's the only good thing I can think of about Krookodile. I think Scraggy as a Dark Moxie sweeper and Trapinch as a Ground-type sweeper are better examples of late-game C-tier Pokemon for the respective categories.
tl;dr
Togedemaru C -> B
Machop (No Trade) C -> D
Horsea(Trade) -> C -> D, potentially E if I am harsh enough
I will do another quick run since I figured a few more strategies about other Pokemon which may warrant revisiting their current tiers. Electivire and Manectric will also be retested in light of my recent decision to keep Golem in C-tier. Afterwards, I will announce a countdown for the thread's closure.
edit: the changes won't be applied immediately, they will be applied some time before the thread closes
Charmander
Charmander
Hala(17): Charmeleon either takes out 2/3 of Hala's team or sweeps him. This depends on whether Machop goes for Focus Energy turn one or attacks you. Dragon Rage 2HKOes everything on Hala's team. Machop's boosted Revenge is a 2HKO. Makuhita goes for Fake Out and spams Sand-Attack for some reason. If you didn't take a Revenge hit, Charmeleon can lure Crabrawler into Z-PuP by switching out and letting something else take the hit. Charmeleon can then come back and KO Crabrawler.
Araquanid(22): lives a Bubble in yellow and 2HKOes with Dragon Rage while outspeeding. Great matchup
Marowak(25): barely outspeeds Marowak. Dragon Rage is a 2HKO, though Cursed Body can cause troubles. The problem here is that Salazzle is faster and can KO you before you can KO Marowak.
Lurantis(27): easiest way to win here is to Work Up + Z-Fire Punch
Olivia(30): nope. Anorith is faster and 2HKOes with Smack Down. The rest aren't going to be particularly better either
Togedemaru(36): Z-Fire Pledge into Fire Pledge KO Togedemaru. You are faster and this strategy ensures that you win even if it goes for Spiky Shield
Guzma(36/37): Z-Sunny Day and spam Fire Pledge. Golisopod does not seem to go for Sucker Punch at all, making this safe. Masquerain is faster without Speed boosts and this strategy ensures that you don't get flinched by Air Slash
Mimikyu(40): +1 Blaze-boosted Z-Fire Pledge OHKOes Mimikyu. Use Flame Charge before that to break Disguise and outspeed afterwards. Mimikyu needs two Shadow Claws to trigger Blaze. However, this strategy relies on Banette either using Screech or Curse, because its Feint Attack finishes Charizard off. Alternatively, you can OHKO Banette as soon as it comes in and heal Charizard. In addition to the extra resource, this is also more risky when it comes to crits
Guzma(44): outspeeds everything. Specs Fire Pledge takes care of everything. Easy sweep.
Nanu(45): Z-Sunny Day as soon as possible. Sableye's Power Gem leaves you in red-yellow, depending on rolls. Blaze-boosted Fire Pledge in sun OHKOes everything, with a +1 boost being enough to outspeed everything. However, Zard heavily relies on Fake Out not being used.
Guzma(49): spam Specs Flamethrower, you outspeed everything.
Kommo-o(54): Counter OHKOes Kommo-o as long as Thunder Punch deals at least 81 damage. This will happen in most cases, but there is a small chance for Thunder Punch to not 2HKO (around 16%). Dropping Zard's level by one makes the chance for a 3HKO around 2%.
Ribombee(57): +1 Z-Fly OHKOes Ribombee. It does not threaten you at all
Hapu(57/58): Work Up and Sunny Day against Golurk (which 3HKOes with Shadow Punch, but typically sets up SR turn one). Z-Solar Beam OHKOes Flygon and Solar Beam OHKOes the rest. Flygon is the only Pokemon that outspeeds Charizard, though its Dragon Rush does not KO Charizard if it has taken only one Shadow Punch (though flinches may be a concern). Note that +1 Flamethrower with Blaze is an OHKO on Mudsdale as well
Molayne(63): beats everything but Magnezone, heal paralysis offscreen
Olivia: no
Acerola(63/64): Flame Charge on Banette and KO it and Froslass with Flamethrower. Set up a Work Up against Dhelmise and OHKO it with Flamethrower. Palossand dies to Z-Flamethrower. Drifblim is 2HKOed, unless it goes for Amnesia
Hala(17): Charmeleon either takes out 2/3 of Hala's team or sweeps him. This depends on whether Machop goes for Focus Energy turn one or attacks you. Dragon Rage 2HKOes everything on Hala's team. Machop's boosted Revenge is a 2HKO. Makuhita goes for Fake Out and spams Sand-Attack for some reason. If you didn't take a Revenge hit, Charmeleon can lure Crabrawler into Z-PuP by switching out and letting something else take the hit. Charmeleon can then come back and KO Crabrawler.
Araquanid(22): lives a Bubble in yellow and 2HKOes with Dragon Rage while outspeeding. Great matchup
Marowak(25): barely outspeeds Marowak. Dragon Rage is a 2HKO, though Cursed Body can cause troubles. The problem here is that Salazzle is faster and can KO you before you can KO Marowak.
Lurantis(27): easiest way to win here is to Work Up + Z-Fire Punch
Olivia(30): nope. Anorith is faster and 2HKOes with Smack Down. The rest aren't going to be particularly better either
Togedemaru(36): Z-Fire Pledge into Fire Pledge KO Togedemaru. You are faster and this strategy ensures that you win even if it goes for Spiky Shield
Guzma(36/37): Z-Sunny Day and spam Fire Pledge. Golisopod does not seem to go for Sucker Punch at all, making this safe. Masquerain is faster without Speed boosts and this strategy ensures that you don't get flinched by Air Slash
Mimikyu(40): +1 Blaze-boosted Z-Fire Pledge OHKOes Mimikyu. Use Flame Charge before that to break Disguise and outspeed afterwards. Mimikyu needs two Shadow Claws to trigger Blaze. However, this strategy relies on Banette either using Screech or Curse, because its Feint Attack finishes Charizard off. Alternatively, you can OHKO Banette as soon as it comes in and heal Charizard. In addition to the extra resource, this is also more risky when it comes to crits
Guzma(44): outspeeds everything. Specs Fire Pledge takes care of everything. Easy sweep.
Nanu(45): Z-Sunny Day as soon as possible. Sableye's Power Gem leaves you in red-yellow, depending on rolls. Blaze-boosted Fire Pledge in sun OHKOes everything, with a +1 boost being enough to outspeed everything. However, Zard heavily relies on Fake Out not being used.
Guzma(49): spam Specs Flamethrower, you outspeed everything.
Kommo-o(54): Counter OHKOes Kommo-o as long as Thunder Punch deals at least 81 damage. This will happen in most cases, but there is a small chance for Thunder Punch to not 2HKO (around 16%). Dropping Zard's level by one makes the chance for a 3HKO around 2%.
Ribombee(57): +1 Z-Fly OHKOes Ribombee. It does not threaten you at all
Hapu(57/58): Work Up and Sunny Day against Golurk (which 3HKOes with Shadow Punch, but typically sets up SR turn one). Z-Solar Beam OHKOes Flygon and Solar Beam OHKOes the rest. Flygon is the only Pokemon that outspeeds Charizard, though its Dragon Rush does not KO Charizard if it has taken only one Shadow Punch (though flinches may be a concern). Note that +1 Flamethrower with Blaze is an OHKO on Mudsdale as well
Molayne(63): beats everything but Magnezone, heal paralysis offscreen
Olivia: no
Acerola(63/64): Flame Charge on Banette and KO it and Froslass with Flamethrower. Set up a Work Up against Dhelmise and OHKO it with Flamethrower. Palossand dies to Z-Flamethrower. Drifblim is 2HKOed, unless it goes for Amnesia
As I said, I used Charmander mostly for fun, the main point of this run was to see if I could find simpler strategies against opponents like Nanu and Mimikyu (and I did manage to do that). Charmander is a fun Pokemon to use, though its occassional reliance on unreliable strategies and a few outright bad matchups do prevent an S-tier
Mankey
Mankey
Hala(17): pretty bad. Brick Break deals laughable damage to Machop which easily beats you. The rest aren't better matchups either.
Araquanid(22): there isn't much you can hit with here. +2 Rock Tomb is your best shot and even that isn't enough to win you the matchup
Marowak(25): cannot outspeed Marowak, which proceeds to maul it to shreds
Lurantis(28): as a Primeape, all you have to do is set up a Work Up and OHKO with Z-Cross Chop. Primeape tanks a Solar Blade easily and even lives a crit. If you are a Mankey, though, it gets OHKOed by Solar Blade
Olivia(30): Work Up once and then OHKO everything with Brick Break. Lileep is the only slower thing, but Bite flinches are your only issue
Togedemaru(36): Work Up on Spiky Shield turn then outspeed and OHKO with Z-Cross Chop
Guzma(36): you cannot face Masquerain whatsoever and Golisopod also crushes you
Mimikyu(39): lol no
Guzma(43): has a hard time taking on pretty much anything, at best can 1v1 Pinsir
Nanu(44): best use here is to use Primeape on Persian by nuking it with Z-Close Combat. Krokorok is faster and deals heavy damage with Earthquake, while Sableye chips you enough for the next Pokemon to KO you without some offscreen support.
Guzma(49): nope, Masquerain is faster as always
Kommo-o(54); even though you can have Outrage for this fight, you are not winning this, since Outrage is a 3HKO and Dragon Claw is a 2HKO in return.
Ribombee: no
Hapu(57/58): +2 Z-Payback OHKOes Golurk. Unfortunately, +2 Close Combat does not OHKO Mudsdale, which ends any attempt at sweeping (Mudsdale is the second Pokemon to come out)
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Bisharp, and Magnezone. Metagross one-shots you quite easily and Dugtrio's Tangling Hair interferes against other members of Molayne's team (+ it can KO you if you are weakened)
Olivia(63): Work Up once and OHKO Armaldo with Z-Rock Slide. CC OHKOes Gigalith, Lycanroc, and Cradily, outspeeding all. Rock Slide + BB KO Probopass, heal off paralysis before the KO
Acerola(63): Froslass is faster and screws really hard with you. Trying to set up on anything other than Banette is fairly difficult. In addition, +2 Payback doesn't OHKO Palossand either, meaning Primeape is fairly limited here
Hala(17): pretty bad. Brick Break deals laughable damage to Machop which easily beats you. The rest aren't better matchups either.
Araquanid(22): there isn't much you can hit with here. +2 Rock Tomb is your best shot and even that isn't enough to win you the matchup
Marowak(25): cannot outspeed Marowak, which proceeds to maul it to shreds
Lurantis(28): as a Primeape, all you have to do is set up a Work Up and OHKO with Z-Cross Chop. Primeape tanks a Solar Blade easily and even lives a crit. If you are a Mankey, though, it gets OHKOed by Solar Blade
Olivia(30): Work Up once and then OHKO everything with Brick Break. Lileep is the only slower thing, but Bite flinches are your only issue
Togedemaru(36): Work Up on Spiky Shield turn then outspeed and OHKO with Z-Cross Chop
Guzma(36): you cannot face Masquerain whatsoever and Golisopod also crushes you
Mimikyu(39): lol no
Guzma(43): has a hard time taking on pretty much anything, at best can 1v1 Pinsir
Nanu(44): best use here is to use Primeape on Persian by nuking it with Z-Close Combat. Krokorok is faster and deals heavy damage with Earthquake, while Sableye chips you enough for the next Pokemon to KO you without some offscreen support.
Guzma(49): nope, Masquerain is faster as always
Kommo-o(54); even though you can have Outrage for this fight, you are not winning this, since Outrage is a 3HKO and Dragon Claw is a 2HKO in return.
Ribombee: no
Hapu(57/58): +2 Z-Payback OHKOes Golurk. Unfortunately, +2 Close Combat does not OHKO Mudsdale, which ends any attempt at sweeping (Mudsdale is the second Pokemon to come out)
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Bisharp, and Magnezone. Metagross one-shots you quite easily and Dugtrio's Tangling Hair interferes against other members of Molayne's team (+ it can KO you if you are weakened)
Olivia(63): Work Up once and OHKO Armaldo with Z-Rock Slide. CC OHKOes Gigalith, Lycanroc, and Cradily, outspeeding all. Rock Slide + BB KO Probopass, heal off paralysis before the KO
Acerola(63): Froslass is faster and screws really hard with you. Trying to set up on anything other than Banette is fairly difficult. In addition, +2 Payback doesn't OHKO Palossand either, meaning Primeape is fairly limited here
Yeah, I am not convinced this has to go to B and I think its initial placement of C-tier is correct. Outside of taking a while before Mankey starts having good matchups, its fraility caused me tons of issues later in the game. It doesn't help that one of its good matchups, Lurantis, requires effort on your part to evolve it by that point (and I have certainly failed to reach such levels in the past). Its matchups are fit for C-tier
With that said, though, I decided to compare it to Machoke and, upon revision of logs, I concluded that Mankey and Machoke do not belong to the same tier; while Mankey has its issues, it is outright superior and has many more matchups than it. Machoke's matchups are severely lacking and for this it will drop to D-tier to correct this (Machoke is basically good against Olivia, Lurantis if evolved, and occassionally does other stuff; Togedemaru is shaky due to Dedenne's Charm).
Horsea (Trade)
Kingdra
Marowak(24): Rain Dance and hope for Detect turn one. Z-Bubble Beam in rain is an OHKO on rolls on Marowak. If it lives a Bubble Beam, you need to hope for it to attack you and not to go for Detect
Lurantis(26): LOL
Olivia(30): set up rain and OHKO Anorith with Bubble Beam (2HKO outside rain). Switch out against Lileep and beat it. If there is still rain by the time Horsea switches in, you can outspeed and OHKO Lycanroc with Z-Bubble Beam
Togedemaru(36): Rain Dance and put Togedemaru in red with Z-Bubble Beam. Tailwind + Zing Zap flinches are your only issue. Bubble Beam finishes off Togedemaru if there's rain, you can also use Brine outside rain.
Guzma(36): cannot beat Golisopod whatsoever, Masquerain will give it a hard time too with Air Slash flinches if you attempt to set up rain
Mimikyu(39): haha no
Nanu(45): Rain Dance turn one and 2HKO Sableye with Brine (this seems to be a roll). OHKO Krokorok afterwards. Persian's Fake Out cancels rain, so heal up Kingdra and reset up Rain (Dark Pulse is a 3-4HKO, depending on rolls) and OHKO with Z-Brine
Guzma(49): didn't bother trying it here, since the results are unlikely to be better than the previous fights
Kommo-o(54): Specs Draco Meteor does not OHKO Kommo-o, which means that Kingdra gets defeated
Ribombee: no
Hapu(57/58): rain-boosted Scald is an OHKO on rolls on Golurk, which 3HKOes in return, and OHKO on Mudsdale. Z=Scald OHKOes Flygon (Dragon Pulse does not OHKO). Gastrodon is not an issue, save for accuracy drops
Molayne(63): Specs Scald spam beats Klefki, Dugtrio, and either Metagross or Bisharp, depending on whether you skip Metagross and heal offscreen or not
Olivia(63): OHKOes Armaldo with Scald. Set up rain against Gigalith (which clicks Bulldoze) and OHKO it and Lycanroc with Scald. Cradily is KOed by Scald + Z-Scald. Probopass is annoying, but beatable
Marowak(24): Rain Dance and hope for Detect turn one. Z-Bubble Beam in rain is an OHKO on rolls on Marowak. If it lives a Bubble Beam, you need to hope for it to attack you and not to go for Detect
Lurantis(26): LOL
Olivia(30): set up rain and OHKO Anorith with Bubble Beam (2HKO outside rain). Switch out against Lileep and beat it. If there is still rain by the time Horsea switches in, you can outspeed and OHKO Lycanroc with Z-Bubble Beam
Togedemaru(36): Rain Dance and put Togedemaru in red with Z-Bubble Beam. Tailwind + Zing Zap flinches are your only issue. Bubble Beam finishes off Togedemaru if there's rain, you can also use Brine outside rain.
Guzma(36): cannot beat Golisopod whatsoever, Masquerain will give it a hard time too with Air Slash flinches if you attempt to set up rain
Mimikyu(39): haha no
Nanu(45): Rain Dance turn one and 2HKO Sableye with Brine (this seems to be a roll). OHKO Krokorok afterwards. Persian's Fake Out cancels rain, so heal up Kingdra and reset up Rain (Dark Pulse is a 3-4HKO, depending on rolls) and OHKO with Z-Brine
Guzma(49): didn't bother trying it here, since the results are unlikely to be better than the previous fights
Kommo-o(54): Specs Draco Meteor does not OHKO Kommo-o, which means that Kingdra gets defeated
Ribombee: no
Hapu(57/58): rain-boosted Scald is an OHKO on rolls on Golurk, which 3HKOes in return, and OHKO on Mudsdale. Z=Scald OHKOes Flygon (Dragon Pulse does not OHKO). Gastrodon is not an issue, save for accuracy drops
Molayne(63): Specs Scald spam beats Klefki, Dugtrio, and either Metagross or Bisharp, depending on whether you skip Metagross and heal offscreen or not
Olivia(63): OHKOes Armaldo with Scald. Set up rain against Gigalith (which clicks Bulldoze) and OHKO it and Lycanroc with Scald. Cradily is KOed by Scald + Z-Scald. Probopass is annoying, but beatable
Kingdra was placed around the time the list was still in a prototype-like stage and when tiering standards for the list were rather loose. As a result, for a long time, Kingdra was placed in a tier that I now believe is too high for it. Outside of the time investment for obtaining the Dragonscale, Kingdra's performance is pretty bad at places and has consistently missed KOs that it really shouldn't be missing. Combine it with Horsea being one of the weakest Water-types for Akala, I think D-tier is more than appropriate for it. As a matter of fact, I may consider even dropping the Horsea line to E-tier, but I will think about it first before doing that.
Klefki
Klefki
Guzma(42): you can spam Specs Draining Kiss against Pinsir, though you are left at borderline red HP. Masquerain can finish you off, so you will need to heal.
Nanu(44): easiest way to use Klefki here is to just use Specs Draining Kiss, which nets you an easy win against Sableye and Persian. Z-Reflect can be used to beat Krokorok, but it has a tendency to use Swagger, making the matchup unreliable
Guzma(49): didn't really bother here, since it will likely end up the same way as the last time, if not worse
Kommo-o(55): Kommo-o's Drain Punch is a 3HKO with no boosts. Hit it with Dazzling Gleam turn one to remove its Roseli Berry. Z-Psych Up and hit both twice with Dazzling Gleam, KOing them together. Save for random crits, this matchup ends up being pretty safe, as Klefki outspeeds both at +1. Noivern tends to spam Screech, though its Boomburst is not a concern.
Ultra Necrozma(56): Easiest way to win here is with a Psych Up, Roto Boost, and a Full Restore. Afterwards, you can spam Draining Kiss, which will heal off most damage Klefki receives
Ribombee(57): Psych Up on Ribombee and spam Flash Cannon / Z-Flash Cannon. There's no real threat to you, so you win easily
Hapu(58): Magnet Rise on Golurk, which goes for EQ turn one. It will waste one turn setting SR and attempt to 3HKO with Hammer Arm. Calm Mind twice and 2HKO Golurk with Flash Cannon. Mudsdale attempts to go for Z-EQ even if you are at low HP, so Magnet Rise and avoid that. Draining Kiss + Flash Cannon KO Mudsdale (for some reason, it opts for Double Kick instead of Heavy Slam). Flygon comes in afterwards, but with a Magnet Rise, it cannot hit you at all. It will either switch out or let itself be KOed. Gastrodon is KOed with Draining Kiss + Z-Draining Kiss and its accuracy drops are the only issue.
Olivia(63): spam Flash Cannon on Armaldo and switch out against Probopass. Bring Klefki back against anything. +2 Z-Flash Cannon OHKOes Gigalith and takes care of the rest. Magnet Rise against Gigalith to block Bulldoze and nothing threatens you at this point.
Kahili(63): CM once, then spam DKiss on Braviary. Switch out against Oricorio and bring it back against Hawlucha (or Toucannon), CM twice and spam DKiss. OHKO Toucannon with Z-Flash Cannon
Hau(63): CM twice on Raichu and spam DKiss on it. Magnet Rise on Tauros, then Draining Kiss spam it as well. Spam DKiss on Vaporeon (which only threatens if it crits), OHKO Decidueye with Z-Flash Cannon and spam Flash Cannon on the rest for the sweep
Guzma(42): you can spam Specs Draining Kiss against Pinsir, though you are left at borderline red HP. Masquerain can finish you off, so you will need to heal.
Nanu(44): easiest way to use Klefki here is to just use Specs Draining Kiss, which nets you an easy win against Sableye and Persian. Z-Reflect can be used to beat Krokorok, but it has a tendency to use Swagger, making the matchup unreliable
Guzma(49): didn't really bother here, since it will likely end up the same way as the last time, if not worse
Kommo-o(55): Kommo-o's Drain Punch is a 3HKO with no boosts. Hit it with Dazzling Gleam turn one to remove its Roseli Berry. Z-Psych Up and hit both twice with Dazzling Gleam, KOing them together. Save for random crits, this matchup ends up being pretty safe, as Klefki outspeeds both at +1. Noivern tends to spam Screech, though its Boomburst is not a concern.
Ultra Necrozma(56): Easiest way to win here is with a Psych Up, Roto Boost, and a Full Restore. Afterwards, you can spam Draining Kiss, which will heal off most damage Klefki receives
Ribombee(57): Psych Up on Ribombee and spam Flash Cannon / Z-Flash Cannon. There's no real threat to you, so you win easily
Hapu(58): Magnet Rise on Golurk, which goes for EQ turn one. It will waste one turn setting SR and attempt to 3HKO with Hammer Arm. Calm Mind twice and 2HKO Golurk with Flash Cannon. Mudsdale attempts to go for Z-EQ even if you are at low HP, so Magnet Rise and avoid that. Draining Kiss + Flash Cannon KO Mudsdale (for some reason, it opts for Double Kick instead of Heavy Slam). Flygon comes in afterwards, but with a Magnet Rise, it cannot hit you at all. It will either switch out or let itself be KOed. Gastrodon is KOed with Draining Kiss + Z-Draining Kiss and its accuracy drops are the only issue.
Olivia(63): spam Flash Cannon on Armaldo and switch out against Probopass. Bring Klefki back against anything. +2 Z-Flash Cannon OHKOes Gigalith and takes care of the rest. Magnet Rise against Gigalith to block Bulldoze and nothing threatens you at this point.
Kahili(63): CM once, then spam DKiss on Braviary. Switch out against Oricorio and bring it back against Hawlucha (or Toucannon), CM twice and spam DKiss. OHKO Toucannon with Z-Flash Cannon
Hau(63): CM twice on Raichu and spam DKiss on it. Magnet Rise on Tauros, then Draining Kiss spam it as well. Spam DKiss on Vaporeon (which only threatens if it crits), OHKO Decidueye with Z-Flash Cannon and spam Flash Cannon on the rest for the sweep
(note: some of the endgame logs are taken directly from old logs out of sheer laziness)
Klefki was tiered in a time when it wasn't even placed on the list (since the list started out only with some of the Pokemon placed) so at that time, I prioritized getting it placed somewhere with the idea of retesting it later on. Fortunately, this test run convinced me that C-tier is correct and it will be remaining in this tier. It requires little investment thanks to its Fast experience group and is generally very useful in fights. I was pleased that it managed to beat Ultra Necrozma using just one Roto Boost and one Full Restore. It's not super simple to use (since you do need a bit of thinking to utilize to its best) but it's certainly a pretty fun Pokemon to use and very effective at what it does.
Togedemaru
Togedemaru
Mimikyu(39): Z-Iron Head OHKOes Mimikyu after Iron Barbs damage (not sure if you actually OHKO without that and never tested it). Mimikyu's Shadow Claw is a 2HKO on rolls (a roll for 3HKO). The roll seems to lean towards the 2HKO, so it's best that you break Disguise with something else. You outspeed Banette, so you don't have to worry about it
Guzma(43): Work Up once then force Golisopod out with Zing Zap. OHKO Pinsir with Z-Bounce. Golisopod comes in and you beat it if it doesn't go for Sucker Punch. Masquerain finishes you off unless you heal.
Nanu(44): nope, deals only with Sableye
Guzma(49): beats Golisopod and Masquerain
Kommo-o(54): Endeavor + Spiky Shield KO Kommo-o. However, Kommo-o has a good chance of OHKOing with Drain Punch, so Focus Sash will be needed
Ultra Necrozma(55): Endeavor + offscreen healing + Z-Iron Head take down Ultra Necrozma. Its Photon Geyser, per calculations, will never OHKO Togedemaru without crits, regardless of IV spread
Ribombee(57): +1 Z-Iron Head OHKOes. Ribombee spams QD, since it cannot 2HKO even at +2.
Hapu: lol no
Olivia(63): Spiky Shield into Iron Head KOes Armaldo. Switch out against Probopass. Bring Togedemaru back against Cradily or Lycanroc. +2 Iron Head is needed to OHKO Lycanroc, bypassing Counter. Gigalith dies to +1 Z-Iron Head. Pretty good matchup
Acerola(63): 2HKO Banette with Iron Head, which goes for Screech. Switch out against Palossand. Iron Head OHKOes Froslsass, though it confuses you before that. Dhelmise dies to +1 Z-Iron Head, though Shadow Ball 3HKOes. Drifblim is outsped and OHKOed by Zing Zap.
Kahili(63): outspeeds and OHKOes Braviary with Wild Charge. OHKOes Hawlucha with Zing Zap after eating a Throat Chop and OHKOes Mandibuzz with Z-Wild Charge. Switch out against Oricorio. Outspeeds and OHKOes Toucannon with Wild Charge
Mimikyu(39): Z-Iron Head OHKOes Mimikyu after Iron Barbs damage (not sure if you actually OHKO without that and never tested it). Mimikyu's Shadow Claw is a 2HKO on rolls (a roll for 3HKO). The roll seems to lean towards the 2HKO, so it's best that you break Disguise with something else. You outspeed Banette, so you don't have to worry about it
Guzma(43): Work Up once then force Golisopod out with Zing Zap. OHKO Pinsir with Z-Bounce. Golisopod comes in and you beat it if it doesn't go for Sucker Punch. Masquerain finishes you off unless you heal.
Nanu(44): nope, deals only with Sableye
Guzma(49): beats Golisopod and Masquerain
Kommo-o(54): Endeavor + Spiky Shield KO Kommo-o. However, Kommo-o has a good chance of OHKOing with Drain Punch, so Focus Sash will be needed
Ultra Necrozma(55): Endeavor + offscreen healing + Z-Iron Head take down Ultra Necrozma. Its Photon Geyser, per calculations, will never OHKO Togedemaru without crits, regardless of IV spread
Ribombee(57): +1 Z-Iron Head OHKOes. Ribombee spams QD, since it cannot 2HKO even at +2.
Hapu: lol no
Olivia(63): Spiky Shield into Iron Head KOes Armaldo. Switch out against Probopass. Bring Togedemaru back against Cradily or Lycanroc. +2 Iron Head is needed to OHKO Lycanroc, bypassing Counter. Gigalith dies to +1 Z-Iron Head. Pretty good matchup
Acerola(63): 2HKO Banette with Iron Head, which goes for Screech. Switch out against Palossand. Iron Head OHKOes Froslsass, though it confuses you before that. Dhelmise dies to +1 Z-Iron Head, though Shadow Ball 3HKOes. Drifblim is outsped and OHKOed by Zing Zap.
Kahili(63): outspeeds and OHKOes Braviary with Wild Charge. OHKOes Hawlucha with Zing Zap after eating a Throat Chop and OHKOes Mandibuzz with Z-Wild Charge. Switch out against Oricorio. Outspeeds and OHKOes Toucannon with Wild Charge
I am happy to announce that Togedemaru will be rising to B-tier. Its performance not only replicated the Totem variant's, but the normal one also managed to beat Mimikyu (at least if you break Disguise with something else first). Togedemaru is a pretty good example of a late-game Pokemon that is very good. It has several good matchups and that is against some of the most difficult foes (like Ultra Necrozma). Obviously, it's not a "mash A button" Pokemon, but it never felt unreliable, which is a good thing for its ranking.
Krokorok
Krokorok
Guzma(44): nope, bad matchup
Nanu(45): Crunch is a 2HKO on rolls on Sableye. If you managed to 2HKO Sableye, you can live an EQ from Krokorok and OHKO it on rolls with Brick Break. Heal up against Persian (which deals little damage with Dark Pulse) and OHKO it with Z-Brick Break. Pretty wishiy-washy matchup with all the rolls
Guzma(49): can 1v1 Pinsir
Kommo-o(54): lol no
Ultra Necrozma(55): Dragon Pulse puts Krookodile near red *even with a Roto Boost*, yeah this is not doable in any reasonable manner
Ribombee: lol
Hapu(57/58): Crunch 2HKOes Golurk, which typically sets up SR. Z-Crunch OHKOes Gastrodon at +1. +2 EQ 2HKOes Mudsdale, which seems to just click EQ instead of Z-EQ (which seems to be a 2HKO). Flygon doesn't KO you if you are healthy enough and dies to Crunch. Not a particularly reliable matchup
Molayne(63): Earthquake on Klefki, which typically goes for Reflect turn one. Brick Break puts it in healing range, allowing you to KO it with EQ without having Reflect up. From that point on, you can simply spam EQ. Dugtrio is faster, but it and Magnezone do not KO you together, unless Dugtrio uses Z-Iron Head. If you are worried about that, you can use Z-Sandstorm against Bisharp, which will boost your Speed and allow you to outspeed Dugtrio
Olivia(63): OHKO Armaldo with Z-EQ and spam EQ. Cradily clicks SR turn one, though I doubt Energy Ball deals enough to make you worry. Easy sweep
Acerola(64): Z-Sandstorm and spam Crunch, easy sweep
Kahili(64): best bet is to skip Braviary and Hawlucha, as both are difficult for Krookodile to deal with. Rock Slide + Z-Rock Slide KO Mandibuzz, +1 Rock Slide OHKOes Toucannon, and +2 Crunch OHKO Oricorio. However, Oricorio is faster and can Teeter Dance you.
Guzma(44): nope, bad matchup
Nanu(45): Crunch is a 2HKO on rolls on Sableye. If you managed to 2HKO Sableye, you can live an EQ from Krokorok and OHKO it on rolls with Brick Break. Heal up against Persian (which deals little damage with Dark Pulse) and OHKO it with Z-Brick Break. Pretty wishiy-washy matchup with all the rolls
Guzma(49): can 1v1 Pinsir
Kommo-o(54): lol no
Ultra Necrozma(55): Dragon Pulse puts Krookodile near red *even with a Roto Boost*, yeah this is not doable in any reasonable manner
Ribombee: lol
Hapu(57/58): Crunch 2HKOes Golurk, which typically sets up SR. Z-Crunch OHKOes Gastrodon at +1. +2 EQ 2HKOes Mudsdale, which seems to just click EQ instead of Z-EQ (which seems to be a 2HKO). Flygon doesn't KO you if you are healthy enough and dies to Crunch. Not a particularly reliable matchup
Molayne(63): Earthquake on Klefki, which typically goes for Reflect turn one. Brick Break puts it in healing range, allowing you to KO it with EQ without having Reflect up. From that point on, you can simply spam EQ. Dugtrio is faster, but it and Magnezone do not KO you together, unless Dugtrio uses Z-Iron Head. If you are worried about that, you can use Z-Sandstorm against Bisharp, which will boost your Speed and allow you to outspeed Dugtrio
Olivia(63): OHKO Armaldo with Z-EQ and spam EQ. Cradily clicks SR turn one, though I doubt Energy Ball deals enough to make you worry. Easy sweep
Acerola(64): Z-Sandstorm and spam Crunch, easy sweep
Kahili(64): best bet is to skip Braviary and Hawlucha, as both are difficult for Krookodile to deal with. Rock Slide + Z-Rock Slide KO Mandibuzz, +1 Rock Slide OHKOes Toucannon, and +2 Crunch OHKO Oricorio. However, Oricorio is faster and can Teeter Dance you.
i am a bit on the fence regarding Krokorok, but I am leaning towards keeping it where it currently resides, given it has previously been nominated for D-tier and this run didn't give me enough reasons to change its tier. Krookodile is straight up unreliable until the E4, as many of its only "good" matchups before that rely on a few things going right. Three sweeps at the E4 is far from bad, but it's the only good thing I can think of about Krookodile. I think Scraggy as a Dark Moxie sweeper and Trapinch as a Ground-type sweeper are better examples of late-game C-tier Pokemon for the respective categories.
tl;dr
Togedemaru C -> B
Machop (No Trade) C -> D
Horsea(Trade) -> C -> D, potentially E if I am harsh enough
I will do another quick run since I figured a few more strategies about other Pokemon which may warrant revisiting their current tiers. Electivire and Manectric will also be retested in light of my recent decision to keep Golem in C-tier. Afterwards, I will announce a countdown for the thread's closure.
edit: the changes won't be applied immediately, they will be applied some time before the thread closes
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Did my run with Manectric, Electivire and a bunch of others. I will hide those in their own section below:
Announcing the thread's eventual closure
Seeing as how most of the important Pokemon have been discussed in the past and even the not-so-important Pokemon having received some tests or discussion, I think it is time that the project comes to an end.
This is what will happen:
* I am planning on closing the thread on November 1. I am giving myself some time since I have to figure out some other things before that.
* During this period, you are allowed to make nominations for a Pokemon to change tiers. Likewise, you are allowed to do test runs and submit logs for them as long as that happens before the deadline
* The tier list will have the following notations: two stars (**), meaning that the Pokemon's rank is going to change on the date of the deadline if not heavily objected (that means you disagree with the rank and are willing to provide arguments to justify your position). One star (*) are Pokemon for which I am more open to change their tiers with justifications, but will remain within their tier if no one makes a case for it to change a tier. No star means that you need very strong evidence to convince me to change a Pokemon's tier, as those placements are generally the result of a consensus.
* Once the deadline passes, a new thread for write-ups will be created and this thread will be locked. No tiering changes (except for exceptional cases, which will be defined in the write-ups thread) will be possible at that point, so make sure you get all your nominations in before the deadline! The write-ups thread will explain more thoroughly how to contribute.
Here are the Pokemon whose tier will change (**) if not heavily objected to:
- Flareon C -> B
- Horsea (Trade) C -> D
- Togedemaru C -> B
- Gastly (Trade) C -> B
- Squirtle B -> C
- Onix (Trade) E -> C
- Partner Cap Pikachu D -> E
The following Pokemon would benefit (*) from opinions:
- Eevee (Jolteon) B -> A
- Necrozma C -> D
- Solgaleo C -> D
- Lunala C -> D
- Xurkitree C -> D
- Kartana C -> D
- Celesteela C -> D
The following Pokemon are on my personal agenda and may be placed in one of the above categories soon (after I do a reevaluation test and see if I am convinced that they can change tiers):
- Gastly (No Trade) C -> B
- Mime Jr. D -> C
- Minior C -> B
Thanks to all people that have contributed and helped make the list better and more accurate
my run consisted of Gengar, Blastoise, Steelix, Golisopod, Manectric, and Electivire. Those are either reevaluations of ancient tests or I discovered new strategies for the Pokemon that could potentially make them rank higher. Here are the logs for each:
Missing matchup = bad / didn't try because the matchup did not look to provide any interesting results
The results:
all changes will be applied at the end of the closure if not opposed heavily
Gengar
Gumshoos(13); you can Curse it before dying, making it easier for a teammate to handle it
Hala(17): Gastly walls Machop and Makuhita, but those switch into Crabrawler, which traps you with Pursuit. In addition, you need to be level 19 for Night Shade to 3HKO. Your only hope is to land a Hypnosis on the switch and spam Night Shade (Pursuit seems to be a 2HKO) without it waking up too early.
Lurantis(27): Curse into Z-Uproar defeats Lurantis, which spams X-Scissor.
Olivia(31): outspeeds everything. Giga Drain 2HKOes Anorith. Z-Giga Drain OHKOes Lycanroc. Giga Drain spam should beat Lileep, though you can help yourself with Hypnosis or Curse if you want to (Ancient Power boosts are your only issue)
Togedemaru(36): Curse turn one (Zing Zap is a 3HKO, so you can live this) and then Z-Psych Up, then simply spam Shadow Ball.
Guzma(37): can 1v1 Masquerain
Mimikyu(40): Gengar has a chance of living Shadow Claw, which you can use to Curse it. +1 Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO, unfortunately.
Guzma(44): Specs Sludge Bomb does not OHKO anything, meaning that you at best take out one threat before you faint
Nanu(45): Specs Giga Drain 2HKOes Sableye and OHKOes Krokorok, outspeeding both
Kommo-o(55): Gengar is 2HKOed by Dragon Claw, so you can Destiny Bond safely. Psych Up + Z-Psychic and Z-Psych Up + Dazzling Gleam do not reliable KO Kommo-o within one turn and two turns, respectively.
Ultra Necrozma(56): Sash + Destiny Bond brings Ultra Necrozma down
Ribombee(57): Psych Up + Z-Sludge Bomb OHKO Ribombee (even with one SpD stage above)
Hapu(58): Specs Energy Ball seems to OHKO Golurk, but not Mudsdale, which OHKOes you in return. ou beat two threats
Molayne(63): beats Klefki (heal paralysis offscreen), Magnezone, and Metagross
Acerola(63): Specs Shadow Ball OHKOes everything. Froslass is faster, but fails to OHKO you.
Kahili(63): Specs TBolt 2HKOes Mandibuzz and OHKOes the rest. You beat 4/5 for sure, you can even sweep if you heal against Mandibuzz
Gumshoos(13); you can Curse it before dying, making it easier for a teammate to handle it
Hala(17): Gastly walls Machop and Makuhita, but those switch into Crabrawler, which traps you with Pursuit. In addition, you need to be level 19 for Night Shade to 3HKO. Your only hope is to land a Hypnosis on the switch and spam Night Shade (Pursuit seems to be a 2HKO) without it waking up too early.
Lurantis(27): Curse into Z-Uproar defeats Lurantis, which spams X-Scissor.
Olivia(31): outspeeds everything. Giga Drain 2HKOes Anorith. Z-Giga Drain OHKOes Lycanroc. Giga Drain spam should beat Lileep, though you can help yourself with Hypnosis or Curse if you want to (Ancient Power boosts are your only issue)
Togedemaru(36): Curse turn one (Zing Zap is a 3HKO, so you can live this) and then Z-Psych Up, then simply spam Shadow Ball.
Guzma(37): can 1v1 Masquerain
Mimikyu(40): Gengar has a chance of living Shadow Claw, which you can use to Curse it. +1 Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO, unfortunately.
Guzma(44): Specs Sludge Bomb does not OHKO anything, meaning that you at best take out one threat before you faint
Nanu(45): Specs Giga Drain 2HKOes Sableye and OHKOes Krokorok, outspeeding both
Kommo-o(55): Gengar is 2HKOed by Dragon Claw, so you can Destiny Bond safely. Psych Up + Z-Psychic and Z-Psych Up + Dazzling Gleam do not reliable KO Kommo-o within one turn and two turns, respectively.
Ultra Necrozma(56): Sash + Destiny Bond brings Ultra Necrozma down
Ribombee(57): Psych Up + Z-Sludge Bomb OHKO Ribombee (even with one SpD stage above)
Hapu(58): Specs Energy Ball seems to OHKO Golurk, but not Mudsdale, which OHKOes you in return. ou beat two threats
Molayne(63): beats Klefki (heal paralysis offscreen), Magnezone, and Metagross
Acerola(63): Specs Shadow Ball OHKOes everything. Froslass is faster, but fails to OHKO you.
Kahili(63): Specs TBolt 2HKOes Mandibuzz and OHKOes the rest. You beat 4/5 for sure, you can even sweep if you heal against Mandibuzz
Blastoise
Hala(17): Z-Work Up and Work Up until you get put in Torrent range (typically +4 Attack and +3 Special Attack). Aqua Jet then OHKOes Machop and Makuhita and deals great damage to Crabwaler before fainting against it. This strategy is not reliable, however, as Machop can KO you with a crit Revenge
Marowak(25): +1 Z-Water Pulse OHKOes Marowak
Olivia(30): Get to +4 Attack with Z-Work Up and Work Up (or +3 with Torrent active). Aqua Jet OHKOes Anorith and Lycanroc and Water Pledge OHKOes Lileep
Togedemaru(36): +1 Z-Water Pledge OHKOes. However, Togedemaru is faster and 3HKOes with Zing Zap
Guzma(37): trying to set up here is hard, so it's best that you simply 1v1 Masquerain
Mimikyu(40): +1 Z-Water Pledge with Torrent active almost OHKOed Mimikyu, so yeah, bad matchup
Guzma(44): Z-Rain Dance and +2 SpA with Torrent or +3 as a whole allows Water Pledge to OHKO everything while outspeeding. With that said, good luck setting that up consistently
Nanu(45): Persian outspeeds Blastoise even at +1 and is the second Pokemon to come out after Sableye. Sableye can be KOed with Water Pledge into Z-Water Pledge. Krokorok clicks Swagger for some reason, but if you don't get unlucky, you KO with Water Pledge
Hapu(57): Work Up and Rain Dance turn one. Outspeed and OHKO Golurk and Mudsdale. Flygon is OHKOed, but is faster, though it doesn't KO you if you are in yellow. Gastrodon dies to Z-Water Pledge
Molayne(63): Work Up then spam Scald on Klefki. Then switch out against Zone and heal with Full Restore. Against Dugtrio, set up Work Up and Z-Rain Dance then spam Scald, with Torrent active, Scald will OHKO the rest
Olivia(63): Work Up twice and OHKO Armaldo, Cradily, and Gigalith with Water Pledge. Cradily (which comes before Gigalith) dies to Z-Water Pledge. Probopass finishes you off due to Sturdy, though you can hit it hard before that
Hala(17): Z-Work Up and Work Up until you get put in Torrent range (typically +4 Attack and +3 Special Attack). Aqua Jet then OHKOes Machop and Makuhita and deals great damage to Crabwaler before fainting against it. This strategy is not reliable, however, as Machop can KO you with a crit Revenge
Marowak(25): +1 Z-Water Pulse OHKOes Marowak
Olivia(30): Get to +4 Attack with Z-Work Up and Work Up (or +3 with Torrent active). Aqua Jet OHKOes Anorith and Lycanroc and Water Pledge OHKOes Lileep
Togedemaru(36): +1 Z-Water Pledge OHKOes. However, Togedemaru is faster and 3HKOes with Zing Zap
Guzma(37): trying to set up here is hard, so it's best that you simply 1v1 Masquerain
Mimikyu(40): +1 Z-Water Pledge with Torrent active almost OHKOed Mimikyu, so yeah, bad matchup
Guzma(44): Z-Rain Dance and +2 SpA with Torrent or +3 as a whole allows Water Pledge to OHKO everything while outspeeding. With that said, good luck setting that up consistently
Nanu(45): Persian outspeeds Blastoise even at +1 and is the second Pokemon to come out after Sableye. Sableye can be KOed with Water Pledge into Z-Water Pledge. Krokorok clicks Swagger for some reason, but if you don't get unlucky, you KO with Water Pledge
Hapu(57): Work Up and Rain Dance turn one. Outspeed and OHKO Golurk and Mudsdale. Flygon is OHKOed, but is faster, though it doesn't KO you if you are in yellow. Gastrodon dies to Z-Water Pledge
Molayne(63): Work Up then spam Scald on Klefki. Then switch out against Zone and heal with Full Restore. Against Dugtrio, set up Work Up and Z-Rain Dance then spam Scald, with Torrent active, Scald will OHKO the rest
Olivia(63): Work Up twice and OHKO Armaldo, Cradily, and Gigalith with Water Pledge. Cradily (which comes before Gigalith) dies to Z-Water Pledge. Probopass finishes you off due to Sturdy, though you can hit it hard before that
Steelix
Olivia(30): set up SR turn one and 2HKO Anorith with Bulldoze. Iron Tail OHKOes Lileep with SR damage. Lycanroc is 2HKOed by Bulldoze and Bite flinches are your only issue
Togedemaru(36): Z-Screech turn one and spam Bulldoze. Torment might be an issue, but Togedemaru doesn't touch you
Guzma(37): beats Masquerain
Mimikyu(40): Psych Up turn one then outspeed and OHKO Banette with Crunch. Break Disguise and OHKO with Z-Iron Tail
Guzma(44): beats Masquerain
Nanu(45): 1v1s Sableye
Ultra Necrozma(55): Z-Psych Up + two Roto Boosts + a Full Restore can potentially allow it to win or at least significantly damage Ultra Necrozma. However, this is a bit too slow for my liking
Ribombee(57): Psych Up then OHKO with Z-Iron Head
Molayne(63): Curse twice and spam Bulldoze. May want to heal against Magnezone, as it will finish you off with Flash Cannon
Olivia(63): Curse twice and spam Iron Head / Bulldoze
Kahili(63/64): Curse a few times and spam Rock Slide. Oricorio is the last Pokemon to come out, allowing you to beat 4/5 of Kahili's team
Olivia(30): set up SR turn one and 2HKO Anorith with Bulldoze. Iron Tail OHKOes Lileep with SR damage. Lycanroc is 2HKOed by Bulldoze and Bite flinches are your only issue
Togedemaru(36): Z-Screech turn one and spam Bulldoze. Torment might be an issue, but Togedemaru doesn't touch you
Guzma(37): beats Masquerain
Mimikyu(40): Psych Up turn one then outspeed and OHKO Banette with Crunch. Break Disguise and OHKO with Z-Iron Tail
Guzma(44): beats Masquerain
Nanu(45): 1v1s Sableye
Ultra Necrozma(55): Z-Psych Up + two Roto Boosts + a Full Restore can potentially allow it to win or at least significantly damage Ultra Necrozma. However, this is a bit too slow for my liking
Ribombee(57): Psych Up then OHKO with Z-Iron Head
Molayne(63): Curse twice and spam Bulldoze. May want to heal against Magnezone, as it will finish you off with Flash Cannon
Olivia(63): Curse twice and spam Iron Head / Bulldoze
Kahili(63/64): Curse a few times and spam Rock Slide. Oricorio is the last Pokemon to come out, allowing you to beat 4/5 of Kahili's team
Manectric
Mimikyu: no
Guzma(43, applicable for all fights): Golisopod deals heavy damage to Manectric, meaning that a sweep is not doable. In addition, Masquerain is faster than Manectric, allowing it to KO Manectric if it's weakened by Pinsir.
Nanu(44): Krokorok and Persian are both faster. At best beats one thing, which might be Sableye
Kommo-o: no
Ribombee: no
Hapu: no
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Magnezone, Metagross if you don't have Screech from Magnezone, and Bisharp.
Acerola(63): beats Banette, Froslass, and Drifblim
Kahili(63): Specs Thunderbolt spam covers most of her team, though Mandibuzz lives one. You likely beat 4/5 of her team
Mimikyu: no
Guzma(43, applicable for all fights): Golisopod deals heavy damage to Manectric, meaning that a sweep is not doable. In addition, Masquerain is faster than Manectric, allowing it to KO Manectric if it's weakened by Pinsir.
Nanu(44): Krokorok and Persian are both faster. At best beats one thing, which might be Sableye
Kommo-o: no
Ribombee: no
Hapu: no
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Magnezone, Metagross if you don't have Screech from Magnezone, and Bisharp.
Acerola(63): beats Banette, Froslass, and Drifblim
Kahili(63): Specs Thunderbolt spam covers most of her team, though Mandibuzz lives one. You likely beat 4/5 of her team
Electivire 1
Togedemaru(35): Eviolite makes Electabuzz untouchable, but Fire Punch deals very little in return
Guzma (all fights): can consistently bring Golisopod or Masquerain down, but never more than one threat
Mimikyu: no
Mimikyu: no
Nanu: beats Sableye
Kommo-o: no
Ribombee: no
Hapu: no
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Magnezone, Metagross if you don't have Screech from Magnezone, and Bisharp.
Acerola(63): beats Banette, Froslass, and Drifblim
Kahili(63): Specs Thunderbolt spam covers most of her team, though Mandibuzz lives one. You likely beat 4/5 of her team
Togedemaru(35): Eviolite makes Electabuzz untouchable, but Fire Punch deals very little in return
Guzma (all fights): can consistently bring Golisopod or Masquerain down, but never more than one threat
Mimikyu: no
Mimikyu: no
Nanu: beats Sableye
Kommo-o: no
Ribombee: no
Hapu: no
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Magnezone, Metagross if you don't have Screech from Magnezone, and Bisharp.
Acerola(63): beats Banette, Froslass, and Drifblim
Kahili(63): Specs Thunderbolt spam covers most of her team, though Mandibuzz lives one. You likely beat 4/5 of her team
Golisopod
Olivia(30): First Impression OHKOes Anorith. Lileep is 2HKOed by Leech Life and, thanks to Olivia's Super Potion, doesn't threaten you because you heal off any damage you receive. Z-Brick Break OHKOes Lycanroc, which spams Bite.
Togedemaru: didn't bother, you could theoritically Z-Psych Up and spam Brick Break, but meh
Guzma: didn't bother
Mimikyu(40): Z-Psych Up and then outspeed and OHKO Banette with Shadow Claw. Shadow Claw then 2HKOes Mimikyu. You can break Disguise yourself. Your only worries here are crits and attack drops, though both are fixed with a single healing. Good matchup
Guzma(44): can 1v1 Golisopod by OHKOing with Specs Discharge. Masquerain is faster and finishes you off
Ultra Necrozma(56): First Impression 3HKOes Ultra Necrozma, two Revives allow you to KO it
Ribombee(57): Psych Up + Z-Liquidation OHKO Ribombee. Golisopod can safely tank a +2 Bug Buzz unboosted and, after Psych Up, another Bug Buzz
Hapu(57/58): Liqudation spam beats Golurk (it puts it in red, but Hyper Potion doesn't heal enough). Z-Liquidation OHKOes Mudsdale. Leech Life 2HKOes Flygon and you win easily if you do not get Dragonbreath paralysis. Gastrodon is a matter of Leech Life spam.
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Bisharp, and Dugtrio
Olivia(63): OHKOs Armaldo with Liquidation and then Gigalith with Hydro Vortex. Switch out against Lycanroc and bring it back against Cradily. 2HKO it with Leech Life and then deal with Probopass, which may trigger Emergency Exit if it doesn't go for Sandstorm
Olivia(30): First Impression OHKOes Anorith. Lileep is 2HKOed by Leech Life and, thanks to Olivia's Super Potion, doesn't threaten you because you heal off any damage you receive. Z-Brick Break OHKOes Lycanroc, which spams Bite.
Togedemaru: didn't bother, you could theoritically Z-Psych Up and spam Brick Break, but meh
Guzma: didn't bother
Mimikyu(40): Z-Psych Up and then outspeed and OHKO Banette with Shadow Claw. Shadow Claw then 2HKOes Mimikyu. You can break Disguise yourself. Your only worries here are crits and attack drops, though both are fixed with a single healing. Good matchup
Guzma(44): can 1v1 Golisopod by OHKOing with Specs Discharge. Masquerain is faster and finishes you off
Ultra Necrozma(56): First Impression 3HKOes Ultra Necrozma, two Revives allow you to KO it
Ribombee(57): Psych Up + Z-Liquidation OHKO Ribombee. Golisopod can safely tank a +2 Bug Buzz unboosted and, after Psych Up, another Bug Buzz
Hapu(57/58): Liqudation spam beats Golurk (it puts it in red, but Hyper Potion doesn't heal enough). Z-Liquidation OHKOes Mudsdale. Leech Life 2HKOes Flygon and you win easily if you do not get Dragonbreath paralysis. Gastrodon is a matter of Leech Life spam.
Molayne(63): beats Klefki, Bisharp, and Dugtrio
Olivia(63): OHKOs Armaldo with Liquidation and then Gigalith with Hydro Vortex. Switch out against Lycanroc and bring it back against Cradily. 2HKO it with Leech Life and then deal with Probopass, which may trigger Emergency Exit if it doesn't go for Sandstorm
Missing matchup = bad / didn't try because the matchup did not look to provide any interesting results
The results:
- Gengar performed much better than I had previously experienced. In the past, I considered Gengar more of a support Pokemon with a few good endgame matchups. However, I decided to try "braver" strategies utilizing Curse *and* attacking together and this led to a few positive results (most notably Togedemaru and Lurantis), proving that Gengar is far more than a support Pokemon. Because it has many good matchups (which alone would make it C-tier for sure and maybe even B-tier) and can still provide support for bad Totem matchups, Gengar will be rising to B at the end of the closure (unless heavily opposed) and I will be retesting Haunter to see if it should also rise to B alongside its evolution. Note: the SOS Gengar will not be tiered separately, as its atrocious availability will make even Haunter better than it.
- Squirtle was initially placed in B-tier, but this test run makes me feel like it might be better off in C-tier. I have mentioned in the past that Squirtle feels "boring" and that it sometimes require some not-so-simple strategies to sweep. This run proves the latter statement to be especially true, as I had to set up to absurd levels to sweep matchups like Olivia #1. Realistically, Squirtle could easily be outclassed by Pokemon like Cloyster and Starmie, save for a higher amount of investment needed for those two. Squirtle will be dropping to C-tier at the end of the closure if not heavily opposed.
- Steelix was initially very low because I couldn't get it to work properly when I used it back then. However, this test run revealed that Steelix is a pretty decent Pokemon as a whole. It beats Olivia, Togedemaru, Mimikyu, Ribombee, Molayne, and most of Kahili. Its main disadvantage is the Metal Coat hunt (which at least is made easier by Thief being a thing by the time you can get Onix). Steelix is rising to C-tier. Its performance is slightly better than Diglett's, but it's also more usable on the route early on due to not being super frail and having a more consistent endgame. The UN slowfest, while not particularly favorable to me, also can be factored in.
- Golisopod performed better than in past runs, as I discovered it learned Psych Up. This allows it to beat Mimikyu and Ribombee, which is a new discovery for me. Unfortunately, I got reminded of just how awful the Wimpod phase and Emergency Exit are, so I am planning on keeping it in C-tier
- Manectric and Electivire will remain D-tier. I thought that Charge Beam can help them improve their Guzma matchups, but I realized that any attempt at doing so would require some complex usage of those two Pokemon and their matchups are already on the lower end of the spectrum. I consider Golem to be a better option than both of those due to it at least being a lot simpler to use and at the same time more effective.
all changes will be applied at the end of the closure if not opposed heavily
Announcing the thread's eventual closure
Seeing as how most of the important Pokemon have been discussed in the past and even the not-so-important Pokemon having received some tests or discussion, I think it is time that the project comes to an end.
This is what will happen:
* I am planning on closing the thread on November 1. I am giving myself some time since I have to figure out some other things before that.
* During this period, you are allowed to make nominations for a Pokemon to change tiers. Likewise, you are allowed to do test runs and submit logs for them as long as that happens before the deadline
* The tier list will have the following notations: two stars (**), meaning that the Pokemon's rank is going to change on the date of the deadline if not heavily objected (that means you disagree with the rank and are willing to provide arguments to justify your position). One star (*) are Pokemon for which I am more open to change their tiers with justifications, but will remain within their tier if no one makes a case for it to change a tier. No star means that you need very strong evidence to convince me to change a Pokemon's tier, as those placements are generally the result of a consensus.
* Once the deadline passes, a new thread for write-ups will be created and this thread will be locked. No tiering changes (except for exceptional cases, which will be defined in the write-ups thread) will be possible at that point, so make sure you get all your nominations in before the deadline! The write-ups thread will explain more thoroughly how to contribute.
Here are the Pokemon whose tier will change (**) if not heavily objected to:
- Flareon C -> B
- Horsea (Trade) C -> D
- Togedemaru C -> B
- Gastly (Trade) C -> B
- Squirtle B -> C
- Onix (Trade) E -> C
- Partner Cap Pikachu D -> E
The following Pokemon would benefit (*) from opinions:
- Eevee (Jolteon) B -> A
- Necrozma C -> D
- Solgaleo C -> D
- Lunala C -> D
- Xurkitree C -> D
- Kartana C -> D
- Celesteela C -> D
The following Pokemon are on my personal agenda and may be placed in one of the above categories soon (after I do a reevaluation test and see if I am convinced that they can change tiers):
- Gastly (No Trade) C -> B
- Mime Jr. D -> C
- Minior C -> B
Thanks to all people that have contributed and helped make the list better and more accurate
Slowbro is a special attacker tho (75 Atk vs 100 SpA).
I believe the comment is referring to Slowpoke's higher Atk (compared to its SpA)
but it has 75 Atk and 100 SpA
Slowpoke has 65 Atk and 40 SpA, Slowbro has 75 Atk and 100 SpA