Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

[Add1subtract1]

I'm so confused why Moody Glalie is allowed. Can we allow minimize and sheer cold too?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1527921790-flayncu5fa4m470ul2iknyuowlbvz19pw

 

[Irpachuza]

I'm so confused why Moody Glalie is allowed. Can we allow minimize and sheer cold too?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1527921790-flayncu5fa4m470ul2iknyuowlbvz19pw

Since the Dynamax suspect, Gen 8 Random Battles hasn't been following Uber bans, if that's what you are implying by asking us to add Minimize and Sheer Cold. Both are under Evasion and OHKO clause, respectively, which our format does abide for. Moody had to get it's own clause, as its nature is different and quite less broken by any means.
Thanks to level balancing based on winrates (also another characteristic of this generation), we have monitored and balanced Moody Pokémon to be sure that they aren't broken or overall unplayable against. Glalie in particular was a recent discussion topic between auth, as it can be annoying to fight against if not properly stopped. Yet removing Moody from it would mean giving it, at best, a semi-support function with Spikes and Explosion, since it has little to no coverage options, lowering its viability to the likes of Maractus or Delibird. Having such a bad moveset would require making its level quite high, and even there we doubt of its efficacy besides being fatter. Therefore, taking on account that Moody still needs a good piece of luck on this Dynamax based, offensive metagame to be effective, we decided that removing it was an unnecessary nerf.

 

[Add1subtract1]

Since the Dynamax suspect, Gen 8 Random Battles hasn't been following Uber bans, if that's what you are implying by asking us to add Minimize and Sheer Cold. Both are under Evasion and OHKO clause, respectively, which our format does abide for. Moody had to get it's own clause, as its nature is different and quite less broken by any means.
Thanks to level balancing based on winrates (also another characteristic of this generation), we have monitored and balanced Moody Pokémon to be sure that they aren't broken or overall unplayable against. Glalie in particular was a recent discussion topic between auth, as it can be annoying to fight against if not properly stopped. Yet removing Moody from it would mean giving it, at best, a semi-support function with Spikes and Explosion, since it has little to no coverage options, lowering its viability to the likes of Maractus or Delibird. Having such a bad moveset would require making its level quite high, and even there we doubt of its efficacy besides being fatter. Therefore, taking on account that Moody still needs a good piece of luck on this Dynamax based, offensive metagame to be effective, we decided that removing it was an unnecessary nerf.

interesting. i don't like glalie much. It isn't very fun to fight against.

 

[pokeblade101]

interesting. i don't like glalie much. It isn't very fun to fight against.

No one does, I want that thing gone but the alternative is a bad mon and we don't try to worsen Pokemon moveset wise. It is a necessary evil.

 

[Add1subtract1]

No one does, I want that thing gone but the alternative is a bad mon and we don't try to worsen Pokemon moveset wise. It is a necessary evil.

why does assault vest/scarf xerneas exist

 

[Irpachuza]

why does assault vest/scarf xerneas exist

You are, once again, comparing absolutely different situations, as xerneas only rolls Choice Scarf around 15% of the times, while it doesn't roll AV. Having three coverage moves on its movepool, along Geomancy and a STAB one, allows it for slightly more variety, and also in reduced cases makes a still functional Scarf set instead of Geomancy (which is also level nerfed and not as dominant as in previous Generations). For Glalie we are speaking about an absolutely different set, not a single move added to the movepool, and the difference in ability rolled and level required between support and Moody is abysmal, so we'd have to choose between one of the two. We do not nerf Pokémon by giving them much lower quality set options; although we also consider "fixed sets" of 4-move movepools undesirable so we try to avoid that happening while still having very viable set options to roll.

I may also remind you that this thread is for reporting bad sets or discussing punctual improvements on the current ones. If you want to debate about set making philosophy, I can assure you bringing it to the Randbats Room instead of this thread will give more complex and comfortable space than what one liners and three-hour late responses can do on a forum thread.

 

[sunsets]

rolled mono electric vikavolt the other day which doesn't really seem ideal... is there a way to force bug buzz or something like that?

 

[RSB]

View attachment 415308
rolled mono electric vikavolt the other day which doesn't really seem ideal... is there a way to force bug buzz or something like that?

Mons are only forced to have 1 of their STAB and we don't like hard coding things unless necessary.

 

[Cat Steven]

Can cinccino get LO and band in both gen8 and no dmax?
How would it decide between LO/band, is it just random? Does having u turn matter?

 

[Real Michael Jordan]

If not added yet add magic room to some move sets. Not too many. Taking care of some items can be a game changer in this mode and it’s fun.

 

[Magmar54]

Can cinccino get LO and band in both gen8 and no dmax?
How would it decide between LO/band, is it just random? Does having u turn matter?

Yes, Cinccino can get both life orb and choice band in gen8randombattles and nodynamax. U-turn doesn't matter since both life orb and choice band sets can have it.
You might find useful this guide https://www.smogon.com/articles/randbats-guide-gen8, which explains item generation a bit.
You might also be interested in this https://randbats.miapi.cf/ useful to calculate the probabilities of certain sets

 

[Arcueid]

Is there any reason as to why Landorus-Therian does not get Superpower in this generation's version of Random Battle?
In theory, it can improve the existing Choice Band/Choice Scarf variations of the Pokemon by allowing it to have access to both Max Knuckle and Max Airstream and it just functions as a way to improve the viability of its sets rather than decrease it. It does have access to Superpower in previous generations, so I was curious as to why it does not have access to it this generation.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

 

[RSB]

Is there any reason as to why Landorus-Therian does not get Superpower in this generation's version of Random Battle?
In theory, it can improve the existing Choice Band/Choice Scarf variations of the Pokemon by allowing it to have access to both Max Knuckle and Max Airstream and it just functions as a way to improve the viability of its sets rather than decrease it. It does have access to Superpower in previous generations, so I was curious as to why it does not have access to it this generation.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

Superpower doesn't hit anything important and giving it to it just for max knuckle when it can already run a superior SD set without having to use a turn or 2 of its dmax to set up doesn't sound worthwhile.

 

[SparksBlade]

I don't know how annoying it would be to implement, and in a case might not be as worth, but can we consider Hex on Cofagrigus when it seems to get at least 1 status move, sometimes two (wisp+tspikes). Damage output is good+it'll hit Kommo-o tho it'll initially be weaker so maybe double attack? Idk I just wanted to throw in this idea

 

[Celever]

I don't know how annoying it would be to implement, and in a case might not be as worth, but can we consider Hex on Cofagrigus when it seems to get at least 1 status move, sometimes two (wisp+tspikes). Damage output is good+it'll hit Kommo-o tho it'll initially be weaker so maybe double attack? Idk I just wanted to throw in this idea

I actually like the idea of just straight up replacing Shadow Ball with Hex. 90% of the time you're using Body Press because it does more on average, so as long as you have status in the team somewhere Hex gets a lot more potential useability, and the raw damage decrease isn't too notable bc it hits like a wet blanket anyway.

If Shadow Ball is straight up replaced, Cof would always have either Toxic Spikes or Will-o-Wisp anyway.

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

I don't know how annoying it would be to implement, and in a case might not be as worth, but can we consider Hex on Cofagrigus when it seems to get at least 1 status move, sometimes two (wisp+tspikes). Damage output is good+it'll hit Kommo-o tho it'll initially be weaker so maybe double attack? Idk I just wanted to throw in this idea

this can work even better in gen7 even with will o wisp

 

[thatcameguy]

is this suppose to be a set?

 

[RSB]

so i had a virizion with a set of close combat, coaching, stone edge and protect. i think its very bad a pokemon like that doesnt have his good grass stab move altouhgh he can run many.

You must be talking about the doubles set for Virizion which does have Leaf Blade in its move pool but you simply didn't roll it. Regardless doubles is better discussed here. Format Discussion - Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Doubles Battle Sets | Smogon Forums

 

[JasonOfTheBest21]

I believe barreskewda should have access to flip turn because more often than not, batreskewda wont be able to ohko opposing mons and will be forced to switch out. With flip turn, barreskewda is able to get momentum as well as pivot on would be checks to barreskewda. Not sure how it could be implemented, but i think CC should also always roll with barreskewda if flip turn is added as its the strongest coverage move for barreskewda.

 

[Wigglytuff]

Stealth Rock Numbers:
Was playing Gen 8 Random Battles and used Roost on my Articuno to scout for Banded Persian. It went for Knock Off, knocking off my boots, and I roosted to get back to full, then switched out. Rocks went up shortly after, I doubled in Articuno on my opponent's switch to Quagsire, took rocks, then doubled out (LoSconosciuto (italian) will understand). Didn't realize Articuno has an even number HP with 84 EVs and when I switched it in again vs Quagsire it fucking died

The way Stealth Rock numbers is this: if your HP is an even number, you'll get exactly X number of switches into Stealth Rock and it'll faint on the last, X depending on your type weakness to Rock. For Charizard and Articuno (4x weak), this is 2 switches; on the second you'll faint. For Tornadus, this is 4 (2x weak); on the 4th it'll faint.

However, if your HP is an odd number, you won't faint on the last switch in due to how SR damage always rounds down. For example, Articuno in rands has 288 HP, so 1/2 of that is 144, and it would faint on the second switch. However, if its HP stat were to either go down 1 to 287 or up 1 to 289, 1/2 rounded down would be 143 or 144, respectively, then it would live on 1 HP after the second switchin to rocks. This is obviously more competitively viable.

This is a pretty niche interaction, especially in Gen 8 with boots, but there is no downside - the HP stat going down 1 or going up 1 has no significant difference on any calcs. And it goes without saying that this could be pretty huge in older gens with Stealth Rock where boots don't exist.

Currently I think this would only be worth looking into for 2x or 4x weak Pokemon - it's not worth the hassle to consider this for mons that are only 1x weak. As for what implementation should look like: if a 2x/4x weak to Stealth Rock Pokemon has an even HP number, then HP EVs should be decreased by 4.

I would be happy to provide a list of Pokemon that this would affect if this cannot be done by code, so hopefully any logistical concerns are void. Changing IVs and EVs to make a Pokemon more competitively viable in Rands already has precedent (Lilligant has its Spe IV decreased to be able to use HP Fire in Gen 7, resulting in 208 speed instead of 209), so I am curious as to what policy objections, if any, there would be.

edit: im told this is already implemented but i dont think its implemented for 2x weak or in cases of boots, ex base form aerodactyl in gen 7. aerodactyl can use CB in gen 7 so i, quarterfinalist at the minimum of gen 7 open, think its perfectly reasonable to switch it in after a pokemon faints, revenge kill, then switch it out when something bulkier comes in, and it would definitely benefit from having 4 switches that you can use it with instead of 3. i should mention again that 1 hp will not make any significant difference in any calcs

to clarify the language of the proposal:
- remove the boots restriction for optimizing HP for sr weak pokemon
- expand the optimization of HP to 2x weak pokemon
- also do this for gen 4-7
- ???
- profit

 

[lilianmesmo]

Excuse me if someone already asked it, but why Whiscash doesn't have Hydration as its ability? The DD set rarely do anything at all in battle, but i think it could set up nicely against passive status mons like Dedenne, Cofragigus and Weezing then Max Geyser to heal the poison/burn
Also, the rare pokemons that get Taunt in the format beat him 1v1 anyways, i always get in situations where Hydration Whiscash could actuay sweep, whereas Oblivious couldn't

 

[Tarrembeau]

Excuse me if someone already asked it, but why Whiscash doesn't have Hydration as its ability? The DD set rarely do anything at all in battle, but i think it could set up nicely against passive status mons like Dedenne, Cofragigus and Weezing then Max Geyser to heal the poison/burn
Also, the rare pokemons that get Taunt in the format beat him 1v1 anyways, i always get in situations where Hydration Whiscash could actuay sweep, whereas Oblivious couldn't

Oblivious prevents the intimidation atk drop as well in Sw/Sh, and that, with the taunt protection, is probably a better niche than healing a status through dynamaxing

 

[DrPumpkinz]

The way Stealth Rock numbers is this: if your HP is an even number, you'll get exactly X number of switches into Stealth Rock and it'll faint on the last, X depending on your type weakness to Rock. For Charizard and Articuno (4x weak), this is 2 switches; on the second you'll faint. For Tornadus, this is 4 (2x weak); on the 4th it'll faint.

However, if your HP is an odd number, you won't faint on the last switch in due to how SR damage always rounds down. For example, Articuno in rands has 288 HP, so 1/2 of that is 144, and it would faint on the second switch. However, if its HP stat were to either go down 1 to 287 or up 1 to 289, 1/2 rounded down would be 143 or 144, respectively, then it would live on 1 HP after the second switchin to rocks. This is obviously more competitively viable.

The even/odd thing is only actually true for Pokemon who lose half their health from Stealth Rock. For Pokemon who lose a quarter of their health, they would ideally have HP numbers that are indivisible by 4. To use your own example, even though Tornadus has 258 HP in random battles, it can actually switch in four times and still live, because 258/4= 64.5

 

[lilianmesmo]

Oblivious prevents the intimidation atk drop as well in Sw/Sh, and that, with the taunt protection, is probably a better niche than healing a status through dynamaxing

That's a fair point, but i still think it would be better or equally viable. The legal intimidate mons in gen8randoms kind of lose to Whiscash already if it gets the speed going on the switch. It would only really help against the Intimidate variants of Stoutland, Gyarados and Salamence, whereas Hydration would help against all status mons and would synergize well with possible partners Kyogre, Peliper and Politoed - which is a very short pool of mons, but essencially more likely than the 3 intimidators it struggles against because they all have other possible abilities
If you really think about it, having these 2 possible abilities would already improve it's viability, because you either could not deal with whiscash via status or not deal with it via taunt/intimidate

 

[1234bst]

Question regarding Silvally and its levels: Silvally, along with Gourgeist are the only Pokémon with form changes that do not have different levels for each of their forms. I understand that levels are determined by winrates, and that Silvallys' winrate is indeterminable because the sample size for each for each Silvally is small at the moment, but surely some level adjustment will be done for the forms, right? It feels wrong for Silvally-fairy to be the same level as Silvally-fire.

Also, would like to discuss Rotom. It seems that Rotom does not have decreased spawn rates, and because of this it spawns 5x as often as other Pokémon? (I'm not entirely sure about this, but I did check the code and saw measures to decrease spawn rate for other Pokémon-forms, but nothing for Rotom. Also, the sample size for the winrates seem to match up.) Is this an intentional feature? I can see why Rotom may be an exception, because its forms have a little more individuality within each of them (with its types and movepool), yet at times it seems excessive. I think a slightly reduced spawn rate would be cool, but I'm fine with either option.